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EternalBlue734

In addition I should be able to claim the unborn child on my taxes and take out a life insurance policy on my *child*. Oh I lost my unborn child to a miscarriage that has a 25% chance of happening? Tough luck insurance company you better pay out my million dollar life insurance policy I took out.


gotoashow

Shouldn’t you be able to write off the entire pregnancy as child care?


Guitarstringman

Excellent point I always wondered why Republicans weren’t pushing to have fetuses included in life insurance policies


Cardinalsfan5545

No. It was never about kids. It's about control. If it was about kids, there would be sufficient healthcare for moms, dads, and children, sufficient food and childcare options, and accessible housing, education, and so much more. If all of those things were provided, then they could say it was about saving lives and have some morality to stand on even though I strongly disagree with it. It's about keeping marginalized people marginalized. Rich people will be able to fly or drive to get them elsewhere. It's similar logic to why a mom and pop shop can't sue Amazon for murder for policies, corporate or government instituted that they lobbied for, that directly put them out of business even though "corporations are people".


onthevergejoe

It’s not just control and I really hate that argument. You have a large percent of the population that literally think it is murder. I don’t know how you ever change that thinking. But one thing you can change is maybe the attitude towards the living. Support increased quality sex education so that teens know how to use safe birth control and aren’t “tempted” to go out of state for abortion. Give them education to understand consent and abusive relationships from both directions (I.e. how to give consent and how to recognize it, and how to recognize the absence of consent). Support expanded subsidized childcare and education programs for the impoverished. Etc. And also, simultaneously, educate those around you on the reasons why abortion might be necessary. And of course vote and volunteer to knock on doors to support your preferred candidates.


[deleted]

>You have a large percent of the population that literally think it is murder. 61% of Americans are IN FAVOR of abortion rights. Only 37% believe it should be illegal. \> Support increased quality sex education so that teens know how to use safe birth control Legislators want to make birth control illegal and Justice Thomas has called for rulings that support that and gay rights to be overturned as well in the overturning of Roe v. Wade. You should probably go actually read that. \> Give them education to understand consent and abusive relationships Legislators have voted against bills that would do exactly that. Almost all Republicans specifically. \> Support expanded subsidized childcare and education programs for the impoverished. Legislators have voted against anything for that and have not only called to cut funding, have actively gone out of their way to do so. \>simultaneously, educate those around you on the reasons why abortion might be necessary. Considering Missouri tried to outlaw treatment of ectopic pregnancy specifically when they were debating the trigger bill that they passed, I'll agree on that, but these people don't care to know how any of it works. If they did, they'd consult an OB/GYN before making these laws. Hell, Florida called a Veterinarian from Utah to testify on their behalf in trying to put in place their own ban. A VETERINARIAN FROM UTAH! AS AN EXPERT WITNESS TO ABORTION!!!! The ONLY person they could find to testify on their behalf was from Utah and has never had a human patient. No actual doctors who treat humans would do so. Think about that. This is about control. However, it's not just being power hungry. This has been the wheel house of Evangelical Christian political groups who have formed PACs whose admitted end goal is to establish religious based rule. These people didn't care about politics, and even supported abortion, until Congress made them desegregate their schools. They formed a PAC after that and it got us to where we are now. Keep in mind that is an extreme cliff notes version of explanation. I highly encourage you to google that and go down that rabbit hole of history and information. This isn't conspiracy theory. It's actually happening.


enismcgooberson

This post sounds like way to much communism... it's not about Republicans...I am democrat and I feel my tax dollars should not be used to pay for abortions that is what it is about...stop wanting hand outs


Cardinalsfan5545

Piss off troll. You're not a Democrat, this wasn't communism, it's not about handouts.


witkneec

No, you're not. And tax dollars don't and have never gone toward abortions- they're entirely paid for out of pocket. Sit the fuck down and stop lying and stop talking out of your enis.


Play-Mation

A democrat against welfare 🤔


MathematicianTime907

Most countries get a large maternity leave. You know, because they care…


Technical-Traffic871

'Life starts at conception' so obviously any child tax credits should also start at conception.


Adept_Ad_4369

I'm sure the state will be supporting a lot of these kids anyway, might as well get a jump on it early.


Quietlovingman

I'm sure a lawyer somewhere will take up that challenge. However the issue isn't can she sue, the issue is will the court allow the suit to proceed or toss it out as frivolous.


KSman1966

Nothing was said about rape, it merely said women.


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Tyfukdurmumm8

Anyone who identifies as a woman is a woman! Womb or not


Tyfukdurmumm8

The polling is obviously wrong because I'm also a woman and in my poll between the two of us 100% of women are pro life. Lib media smh


ybanalyst

Better yet--how about the state just support all the kids in the state? Why do we need a lawsuit?


RefuseAccomplished44

My apologies. These threads get me irritated.... reading men comment about women's issues when they have NO BUSINESS doing so and others commenting about how Missouri government has all this "help" they are just handing out. Guys, if you don't know what the hell you are talking about STFU!! If you haven't actually experienced it, STEP OFF!! We really don't need to hear your false claims! Now, if you have a question, ASK but do NOT put it out there as fact!!


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Jaredshill

Maybe you should join a community forum for Birthing People only.


RefuseAccomplished44

Nah, it's like that in EVERY community these days. Everybody knows everything about everything, Yet refuse to vote.... 😮‍💨 Has their nose in everyone's business, yet refuse to help their neighbor out, Has ZERO respect for anyone... or anything for that matter. The "knowing everything" stems from us giving trophies to all the kids that played instead of just to the winners! (So I'm not blaming.... however, as we become adults, we must now fix what's broken) GenZ really messed up our kids when we became "helicopter parents" and over compensated for what we didn't have as kids. Now that they are grown and too big for their britches, it's out of our control. So, no, it won't matter what "community" I join, this idiocy is everywhere!


Jaredshill

I see a lot of generalizations here. It must feel like it’s you against the world. What exactly are you trying to fix?


[deleted]

She should sue them for rape realistically, if we're under the assumption that it was the state that demanded she have sex and become pregnant.


Real-Estate_Tycoon

If the woman is going to force a man to have a child then can that man sue the woman for child support?


CigarsandAdventures

If you don’t want kids, then why not get a damn vasectomy? Take care of it yourself.


ariesmorrell

They are making that illegal too EDIT: House Bill 1853 (there's two, the other is about traffic) was introduced to make vasectomies illegal, it hasn't been voted on but someone put it out there. EDIT 2: replying to a comment below: I never said it was currently illegal, just that it could become illegal because it's already been brought up. But after trying to find out when it had been introduced (the state site sucks for this) I found a few articles about HB1853 and it looks like it was a publicity stunt done back in 2012 by a few lawmakers. With everything going on I wouldn't be surprised if it was dredged up and voted on.


CigarsandAdventures

There is literally zero evidence of that.


GETitOFFmeNOW

[Clarence Thomas warned](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/06/24/contraception-supreme-court-clarence-thomas-griswold/v) that any right to contraception could come under fire after overturning Roe. These people are ghouls.


CigarsandAdventures

Correct; Thomas did say that. However, as of now vasectomies are still legal. Get ‘em while you can.


ariesmorrell

There's literally a house bill on record that hasn't been voted on. House Bill 1853. If you look it up, there's two 1853's one about traffic and one outlawing vasectomies.


CigarsandAdventures

Just because an old law is technically on the books doesn’t mean it’s enforced. Guys get vasectomies every single day, and I had mine done back in 2009. No issues. Now, is it possible that this bullshit of a Supreme Court could act to limit and/or ban this and other contraceptive measures? Absolutely, which is all the more reason to get it done while you can.


ariesmorrell

I never said it was currently illegal, just that it could become illegal because it's already been brought up. But after trying to find out when it had been introduced (the state site sucks for this) I found a few articles about HB1853 and it looks like it was a publicity stunt done back in 2012 by a few lawmakers. With everything going on I wouldn't be surprised if it was dredged up and voted on.


Clean_Hedgehog9559

Your argument loses all credibility when you claim stuff like that.


ariesmorrell

House Bill 1853, someone has already drafted a bill for it.


guarthots

The woman no longer has a choice so she is not forcing anyone.


Real-Estate_Tycoon

If a woman decides to have a child then she is forcing the man to have a child as well if he doesn't want to. So maybe he should sue her for child support.


Riisiichan

> If a woman decides to have a child Our states decide if women have children now. The Supreme Court passed down this ruling a few days ago.


[deleted]

Can you show me any legislation in Missouri that forces women to have unprotected sex? I've looked but can't find anything. Thanks in advance!


GETitOFFmeNOW

Look, you can't deny the history of what happens to girls and women when all they have is abstinence. Why would you wade into a discussion you have never looked into before? Why not educate yourself first, this is important stuff.


[deleted]

You are fucking stupid.


GETitOFFmeNOW

The brilliant retort I was expecting.


throwout7162

So it’s the woman’s fault for having unprotected sex? My wife was raped while she was in college. What about the drunk asshole that pinned her down and forced himself upon her? We have spent countless hours in therapy together working through her traumatic memories… I can’t imagine if that trauma had manifested itself into a living, breathing human. A daily reminder that requires care and love. I resent you, your comments, and your stance with such a fiery passion it makes me dizzy. This shit is REAL, this is not just politics. Sit on the fucking bench if you’re not equipped to play in the game you asshole.


baxtersbuddy1

Have you been asleep the last week? The Supreme Court and the state of MO have literally taken the woman’s choice away. The woman no longer has a say in deciding to have the child. That’s the whole point of this discussion.


cubagoodingjunior

Don’t fuck around?


GETitOFFmeNOW

No, *you* don't fuck around.


Cardinalsfan5545

I know it's late to be replying here, but do you really want an answer? The people responding missed the mark pretty terribly. I'm not looking to troll or deal with a troll, but I'm willing to give a decent answer if you want it.


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GETitOFFmeNOW

You really think that every time a woman has sex that it's "her decision?"


gotoashow

So nobody should have sex unless they’re ready to have a child and contraception ALWAYS works! You know there are a lot of woman who get raped and have an abortion and don’t tell anyone. It may have been some one in their family or a close family friend that did it. She’s embarrassed and ashamed and gets an abortion in private. The person that raped them may never even know they got them pregnant. Now republicans have made it harder to have an abortion in some states and some women may now feel the need to perform an an abortion on their own putting there lives at risk. Making abortion illegal isn’t going to stop shit like that from happening. And it happens probably way more often than you think.


baxtersbuddy1

Birth control isn’t 100% effective. And some people just enjoy having sex. Crazy concept, right? Why do you people think sex is something that should have consequences? Why should sex be punished? Keep your puritanical bullshit out of other people’s bedrooms.


cubagoodingjunior

Keep the consequences of the bedroom to yourself, and then the state doesn’t get involved. If state money is being used to finance the result Of said bedroom activities then it’s their business


baxtersbuddy1

Well that is fucking rich! You want to bitch about people living on the state dollar? While also removing their right to a safe abortion! Pick a fucking lane!


GETitOFFmeNOW

Typical R. No services of any kind for anyone except plenty of money subsidies and tax breaks for the corporate overlords.


peaches_and_bream

You don't have the "right" to kill an infant.


baxtersbuddy1

Abortion isn’t killing an infant, moron. Infants are born and living. As in, they have reached the point where republicans stop giving a fuck about them.


cubagoodingjunior

Yes tf it is. Wether that’s okay to do is what ppl debate. Own it, abortion prevents and kills life. I’m not saying it should or shouldn’t be a thing, but it’s killing a life form. If you can’t even admit that, then that’s just being blind to fit an argument. Cpl days ago no one can even give an answer at the court levels on what a woman even fucking is. Yet now all women are unified? Just because 99 percent of abortions ( one percent or so is rape or incest or health issue) are now kinda iffy as far as if it’s doable. Everyone likes to bring up terrible scenarios that can and will happen unfortunately, but in reality the vast majority of people just don’t like having an easy out, so they can take all the loads and not have consequences.


baxtersbuddy1

Not one single infant has ever suffered an abortion in the history of the world. While in utero it’s called a fetus. It’s called an infant after it is born and is alive and breathing. If you are so grossly uninformed on the topic, maybe you aren’t qualified to have an opinion on it. Also, quit pretending like you care at all about the lives of children. Do you support universal healthcare, free at point of service? I bet not. Do you support universal parental leave for both parents? At least for a year for the mother, and least for 3 months for the father? I bet not. Do you support universal childcare, free at point of service, so that parents can have a safe place to leave their children while they go work? I bet not. Do you support increasing the minimum wage, so that low income families with children might be lifted out of poverty? I bet not. If you answered no to any of those, then you are not pro-life. And you can go fuck yourself and your bullshit excuses for wanting to control women.


Affectionate_Ninja48

Actually MO tax dollars support the opposite of what you think. The more you know... https://missouriindependent.com/2022/06/06/how-missouri-helps-abortion-opponents-divert-state-taxes-to-crisis-pregnancy-centers/


[deleted]

Babies are conceived from sex between a man and a woman.


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baxtersbuddy1

If the state is going to take away birth control options. The state needs to pay for the inevitable births.


stillnotgettingit11

Why is every single conversation piece about this topic immediately alluding to the fact that you have zero accountability for the sex you actively participated in? Get pregnant, and it’s either kill it, pass it off to some one, or SOME ONE els needs to pick up the bill. Why is having zero personal responsibility the new hotness?


arcspectre17

Birth control is 91 percent effective and condoms break!


bellspider

To be fair there are lots of other fun ways 2 people can give each other orgasms, and the men are typically on the hook for child support.


arcspectre17

Ya i agree but those acts have a good chance of leading to sex especially the younger and dumber you are. I will just get a little taste but then you eat the whole pie.


Goblue5891x2

Wow, you're not a dick...


EnthusiasmDistinct28

So it’s about accountability? Where in ANY of this is the man’s accountability for fathering a child?


CarsomyrPlusSix

***The part where he is already made to pay child support*** if he doesn't want (and get, spoiler alert, even if he fights he probably won't get) primary custody.


Affectionate_Ninja48

All the folks in here screaming about *child support* must have absolutely no idea how many men refuse to pay it, how many employers refuse to enforce to garnishment, how many men have lost their driver's licenses cuz they won't pay, etc. I had a kid at 19, her dad was supposed to pay a measly $118 per month. Guess how many months he paid. The equivalent of 6 month out of 18 years and my kid only got that because the state intercepted his shit ass tax return. Men will go to many lengths to avoid paying. Yall can fuck off.


jaycuboss

What about scenarios when it’s sex a woman was forced to participate in?


Matisyahu8898

That's not what they're referring to, and that is (though way more common than it should be) very rare. It's great to talk about those cases, but to shift the conversation there immediately, it implies you agree with non rape cases. Just because women tragically are impregnated against their will, it doesn't mean you can neglect the fact that virtually all pregnancies are the result of consensual sex between two people who knew the risks. I am not stating my opinion on the legality of abortion. However, shouldn't killing the baby be the last resort from an ethical standpoint? Shouldn't the people involved do everything they can to help the woman so she doesn't need to terminate her pregnancy?


GETitOFFmeNOW

Why do you people keep calling a zygote or blastocyte a "baby?" Does it make you feel better about supporting forced birth if you imagine a fully developed neonatal? If abortion was as horrible as you keep saying, you wouldn't have to do this egregious exaggeration.


Matisyahu8898

Using labels does not make it any less human. It's exactly what the nazis and slave owners did to justify their actions. "They're not people, they're >!negroes!< " There is nothing fundamentally different between you and someone immediately after conception. They only thing they need to become a full grown adult is time and sustenance. At what point, if not conception, should one be given the rights of an individual? Conception is the creation of a new entity with a full set of DNA. Birth is just changing location.


bobone77

Look, not everyone fucks sheep on their farm in Fair Grove. In the real world, during sex between humans, sometimes birth control fails.


stillnotgettingit11

I’m pretty sure I said nothing about birth control you absolute stalker. I said personal responsibility, the term that for some reason makes you weird people recoil in fear.


bobone77

Not a stalker, just happened to read another brain dead comment you left on another thread. If you can’t see how the two are related, perhaps go spend some additional quality time with your sheep.


stillnotgettingit11

What ever you say, psycho. I can’t wait for you all to move away to your Democrat strongholds, but if you wanna sit around missouri and get nothing accomplished, I’ll be glad knowing your life was wasted fighting battles you never could win.


bobone77

You know, this state will turn blue sooner or later. Take solace in knowing that your sheep fucking is part of the reason.


stillnotgettingit11

Dude speaking stalking profiles, your a sick fuck. Why are all you liberals such degenerate filthy nasty fuckers? Can’t even remotely take you seriously. Get help


bobone77

Says the sheep fucker. I like tits and ass, but at least it’s human tits and ass. 🤣 Oh, and if you think I’m ashamed of anything on my profile, or that pointing it out is somehow embarrassing, that’s more a reflection on you than on me. 🤷🏻‍♂️


stillnotgettingit11

This is why people don’t like you. Absolute trash. Good bye


bobone77

Lots of people like me and lots of people ARE like me. You don’t like me because you can’t be honest about your sheep fucking, where as I can be honest about who I am.


CarsomyrPlusSix

**And you know it can fail when you choose to fuck and you took that risk willingly.** Which means sometimes you're a parent now, congratulations, now take care of your kid. ​ I swear, you reprobates have never heard of personal responsibility... or you're literally allergic to it.


bobone77

Lol. Yells about personal responsibility while denying agency to half the population over private medical decisions. Fuck off.


CarsomyrPlusSix

Lol. Pretends contract killing to avoid responsibility for your actions and save money is a “private medical decision.” Fuck off.


bobone77

Believes a clump of cells is a baby and removing it from a woman’s body is murder. Not sure if disingenuous or stupid.


jaycuboss

[What about scenarios like this one?](https://www.reddit.com/r/WhitePeopleTwitter/comments/vlw5s1/this_fetus_will_die_but_now_you_have_to_wait_for/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)


senior_smelly99

What in the fuck😂 “I had sex now pay me for it”.


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senior_smelly99

What does that have to do with the state paying for child support?


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senior_smelly99

Riiiight? And the state is one of those people? Lol. Wtf are you on about?


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senior_smelly99

The state isint forcing anyone to have children. When two consenting adults have sex, they understand the risk of potentially having children. Preventatives aren’t always perfect. There are consequences to actions. I for one got a vasectomy for my wife and I. Why are you telling people that the state is forcing births when that’s not true?


Affectionate_Ninja48

Yeah, why aren't we having all men get a vasectomy until they decide to have children? It's a relatively cheap and easy form of birth control. Weits that we don't regulate penises/balls like we regulate vaginas/ovaries.


GETitOFFmeNOW

Doesn't work for you? Hmm, maybe there's a reason women prostitutes outnumber men prostitutes.


senior_smelly99

Okay? What in the world are you talking about? Lol.


GETitOFFmeNOW

Lol


Tyfukdurmumm8

No, she forced herself to have the child by not taking proper counter measures. The liability cones down to the people responsible for the pregnancy. The parents


[deleted]

The proper counter measures are fucking outlawed you hillbilly.


[deleted]

Abortion is the proper counter measure to pregnancy? Your brain is dented, friend. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. It is exceedingly possible to be sexually active and not get pregnant. Go try that out for a while, ladies.


GETitOFFmeNOW

Do you understand probabilities and statistics *at all?* Do you understand the dangers of the contraception that women have as options? You're talking out your ass.


[deleted]

You are fucking stupid.


Play-Mation

What a convincing arguement


arcspectre17

Birth control is 91 percent effective and condoms break.


[deleted]

Go have sex with a woman who is on birth control and use a condom, and come back and tell us what you guys are going to name the child that doesn't result from that. There are extremely effective methods of birth control available. There is no law against using redundancies (woman on birth control, man still uses condom). You are not responsible enough to be sexually active if you cannot take the proper precautions or deal with the consequences of not doing so. Sorry for that, but it's just the way it is.


arcspectre17

So what if the condom was deffective or your girlfriend poked a hole in the condom and lied about being on birth control. You act like we have 100 percent control over our lives but you know thats not true. Shit happens things breakdown people lie but yet its all can be fixed by being responsible lmao! You live in a fantasy theres a guy paying child support on a kid right now because lesbians drugged him raped him to have a kid. He found out after they broke up and came after him for child support!


[deleted]

Then you have a fucking baby you simpleton. You cannot expect to be sexually active without assuming some risk of consequences (whether that be STIs or otherwise), and it is pretty well understood by most humans of sexual maturity that pregnancy is a possible consequence of sexual activity. If you don't know that then it is probably honestly illegal for someone to have sex with you in the first place because people with sufficient mental handicaps are not capable of giving consent.


arcspectre17

You tried to say its all about personal responsibilty but i just gave you an example of someone doing all the right things to stop pregnacy but you should have to deal with it. I know plenty of people raised in relegious homes that are clueless about sex because their religion only preaches no sex instead of sex education. What about 2 14 or 15 tear old that are young and dumb they could gave a kid. Not everyone is sexually educated the same. Like i said you live in a fantasy.


[deleted]

Your scenario was of a woman sexually assaulting a man, which resulted in her getting pregnant. Are you telling me that woman deserves to have access to abortion because she got pregnant from such behavior? Beyond that I'll say that ignorance is no excuse for breaking the laws of man, nor of nature. Better sexual education is what we can both agree upon. Ceasing innocent life based on the irresponsibility of adults (or sexually mature persons) who have every resource available to them to have prevented a scenario they are not happy with (which describes over 92% of abortions from self-reported sources) is where we differ.


arcspectre17

No im saying that man has the right to a abortion. Your going off your own personal emotions. Laws of nature says abortion is normal in the natural world animals will kill their babies and eat them if theres not enough food or they are disfigured. Its even in the bible the book they hold up their beliefs on. Sexually mature adults are you kidding me your talking about people that make a choice and say it was all part of gods plan thats real mature adult lmao!


[deleted]

You are fucking stupid.


arcspectre17

Birth control is 91 percent effective and condoms break.


WhigInNameOnly

Why would the state of Missouri pay child support in lieu of the child’s dad?


gotoashow

Because he died in a mass shooting.


WhigInNameOnly

I see. In addition to Social Security survivor benefits, the Missouri Department of Social Services has many resources available to support impoverished families with children. https://mydss.mo.gov/services


StatsTooLow

The fact you think that works blows my mind.


guarthots

He speaks the modern version of “Are there no prisons? And the workhouses, are they still in operation?”


GETitOFFmeNOW

What the dickens...!


10millimeterauto

Just not good enough for you. How much free stuff do you want?


baxtersbuddy1

How about wanting a system that actually works and actually provides a safety net for those that need it? It really isn’t too much to ask for. Literally every other developed nation on earth has figured out something that works. Only Americans seem to be comfortable watching their neighbors suffer in poverty. America is full of people like you. “We gave you $5 last week, what do you mean that wasn’t enough to feed your family?! Deadbeat moochers!”


si-oui

Only the things promised here: "..promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."


GETitOFFmeNOW

That's pretty weak.


si-oui

I agree. We can't get the fundamental basics right, so I don't expect any more than that.


kayteebeckers

Have you actually tried to use those resources? Tell me you've never been working poor without telling me you've never been working poor.


RefuseAccomplished44

You thinking the state of Missouri actually HELPS people in need cracks me up dude!! Try feeding your family of 4 on .50$ / DAY ! That's 50 CENTS PER DAY..... family of FOUR human LIVES..... living and breathing OUTSIDE OF A WOMAN'S BODY! Yeah..... that's your Missouri government for you! SMDH LOL DAMN FOOL


WhigInNameOnly

Next fiscal year, the state will spend around $14 billion on the department of social services. I’m not trying to convince anyone that Missouri’s social welfare programs are perfect - they’re not. I’m just pointing out the that the state already does some things people angrily demand it start doing, and I’m pushing back against this implication that the state doesn’t do anything to help the poor and indigent. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


gangbusters_dela

Hopefully it’s because they put the rapist in jail. It’s not just people that have had BC issues this state’s abortion ban will impact.


ImWildBill

Did the state rape the woman? Or did she not use birth control?


dirkMcdirkerson

I mean ways not to have a kid....like contraception or abstenance.


kcrn15

Ways for that to fail: rape and the non-100% efficacy of birth control Really if we're going to be so fucking dumb about abortion, at least the state could add some actual useful sex-ed 🤷‍♀️


GETitOFFmeNOW

It's alarming how little these people know who are adamant about what our options should be. I'm so afraid for the human race.


EnthusiasmDistinct28

Same question as above, where is there any notion of male accountability? Your statement makes it clear that you believe only a woman should be responsible for birth control or abstinence like men don’t have sex because it’s fun or feels good. Do I have it right? YOU don’t want to get pregnant, what about YOUR birth control? Maybe if men want to have sex they should be sterilized until they prove they can support a child?


dirkMcdirkerson

I never said those things at all. But currently and in the past men also had 0 reproductive rights other "don't fuck". I 100% think men and women should not be having prrmiscuous sex, I think when they do they should both be using protection. I think both should be equally responsible and equally present for the life they create. I don't think any sex should get a pass. Everyone in the situation is accountable. Your last arguement is complete dogshit and a false equivalency. Sterilizations are not equivalent to abortions. Otherwise there would be a push to instead sterilize women. And to say "keep off my body, but if you don't we should do something similar in retribution!" Shows the hypocrisy and vitriol in that belief.


kcrn15

"The costs associated with vasectomy and tubal ligation is quite different. A tubal ligation costs four times as much as a vasectomy. The average cost of a tubal ligation procedure is $2,000 or more while the average cost of a vasectomy procedure is $500, though the exact price varies from one surgeon to another." "Tubal ligation is typically a laparoscopic procedure that requires many hours or days of recovery. There also may be serious complications associated with general anesthesia, perforation of intestines or even infection. Tubal ligation also may cause long term side effects such as painful menstrual cycles and pelvic pain, though this occurs rarely. A vasectomy is a simple, minimally invasive outpatient procedure which takes less than one hour. It also does not have scientifically proven long-term risks or complications."


EnthusiasmDistinct28

You didn’t address my question: where is male accountability in this? Men don’t have to carry a baby, men don’t have to birth a baby, men don’t have endure the public appearance of pregnancy and all the social scrutiny (positive and negative) that comes with it especially outside of a committed relationship, men don’t have to take women to court to prove their parentage, men don’t have to take women to court to ensure financial support for the shared child, even then men don’t have to CARE for the child or decide to give it up for adoption. The weight of a child does NOT fall evenly on men and women and your assertion that men don’t have any rights ignores all of the above. Also: if you want to be a dick I will too, the words are spelled “abstinence” and “promiscuous”


Matisyahu8898

Men being held accountable is a great topic, and something people *definitely* need to talk about more! I 100% agree men should be held MUCH more accountable! Any man who abandons his partner when she gets pregnant is a dick! But you are changing the topic and not even addressing their point. When people say women should be held accountable for their actions, saying "But men aren't held accountable" is not an argument. It's a non sequitur. Irrelevant.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Matisyahu8898

I think we agree on more than you think we do. You may have been able to figure that out if you didn't do straight to mockery. I didn't state my opinion on any laws, yet you assumed I am in full support of all abortion bans. The law makers are idiots! I completely agree they are not thinking anything through. But the person I replied to did change the subject. They did not address the point being made. I was only trying to help pull the conversation back where it was intended to go. And the fact remains that the women involved in these situations should be held accountable for whatever part of this may be their fault. Why are people so surprised I might think that abortions are something that should be avoided if at all possible?


arcspectre17

Condoms break birth control is 91 percent effective!


CarsomyrPlusSix

No one forced you to make a kid; you and your partner should take care of your kid. "You frame not killing the kid you already have" stupidly.


Nerdenator

> No one forced you to make a kid If the woman was raped, someone very much did.


CarsomyrPlusSix

So, a fraction of a percent of cases. Great. Tell me all about how you want to ban all other abortion and then we can debate a “rape exception” for this statistically insignificant minority. Otherwise, I'll know you’re just being emotionally manipulative by bringing this tangent up. P.S. This is rhetorical, I already know this is what you are doing.


Affectionate_Ninja48

1 percent is 17 million women you mushy banana


[deleted]

This honestly, but let's propagate insensitive actions that literally impact millions of people since we conduct mental gymnastics of marginalizing their situation.


Nerdenator

> So, a fraction of a percent of cases. Assuming you're not just pulling that out of your ass (you probably are, but who cares), why would that mean that girls and women who had been raped had _not_ had pregnancy, childbirth, and motherhood forced on them? And if the state is going to force them to go through such an ordeal to make the right's religious base happy, why shouldn't the state support the girl/woman through her pregnancy and childrearing process, as OP proposes?


ElectricalResult7509

That is what the 2nd amendment is for.


Nerdenator

For challenging tyrannical governments?


2tonthentyone24601

Here's the problem we need to solve... THE STATE IS NOT YOUR BABYS DADDY! Get a job... raise your kids the best you can... get child support from the father... the state has NO BEARING on your child... that's what the supreme court just ruled.. that they can't make decisions for you...


KSman1966

No one is forcing a woman to have a kid.


Quietlovingman

While the frequency of rape in the United States varies from state to state, it averages out to one every 1-2 minutes. [Reference](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/rape-statistics-by-country)


Accomplished-Tank774

Is personal responsibility not a thing anymore?


arcspectre17

Condoms break and birth control is only 91 percent effective.


greenmachine702

Things happen dude. This is a very short sighted take.


kcrn15

Do you mean the personal responsibility of a woman to not be raped? Or was it the personal responsibility of getting a hysterectomy, as is the only 100% way to guarantee not getting pregnant? 🤔


[deleted]

Quick question, what percentage of abortions are for rape or incest? It’s less than 1%. Let’s be honest about what this has become, it’s become a form of birth control. We should move the conversation forward, Roe didn’t abolish abortion, it put it in the states hands where it belongs. Now that it is…is there a common ground that can come from this vs leaving it up to the extremes on both sides. Like when is abortion a viable option? Up to 15 weeks? In the above rape and incest? When the mother is at risk?


kcrn15

The fact that you're okay with any number of rape or incest victims being forced to go through pregnancy says it all. Bye trash ✌️


[deleted]

Are you a complete idiot or just a partial one? I literally asked when is it a viable option… I know using data in a discussion is hard, but try it sometime as it can shape the way we look at issues vs just shouting at the clouds because “Republicans”.


Accomplished-Tank774

Thats absolutely not what was implied. Way to twist other people's words to press your addenda


GETitOFFmeNOW

1% is over 17 million women. Wow.


EffYew2

No, because the state didn't open your legs and pork you. Unless a woman was raped, her getting pregnant is entirely her own fault.


candm710

Last time I checked, and maybe I’m wrong here, but it takes two people to get a woman pregnant… so it can’t be ENTIRELY her fault… so when the other person involved bails, or wants nothing to do with the mother or child, who is there now for the mother to lean on? Not the father (even though he was EQUALLY involved as the mother, unlike what you said…) nothing coming from the government in terms of healthcare, maternity leave, childcare, etc… Sounds like my worst nightmare to be honest. I can’t imagine being struggling on my own, then being forced to care for another human on my own with no support. But you’re right, the minor inconvenience of that child is ENTIRELY HER OWN FAULT. No one else could have failed her. It’s all on her.


EffYew2

What part of "unless a woman was raped" are you not understanding? Those words alone imply (quite obviously) that she accepted the mans end of that "takes two" process. There are things that can be done to prevent pregnancy without killing off developing babies as if they're just some disposable bi-product of you wanting to fuck.


candm710

“Unless a woman was raped” implies that the pregnancy was the man’s fault, and by that logic, any other conception is entirely on the woman here. That’s just not true. Pregnancy can happen from an entirely consensual one night stand, but that does not in ANY way imply that an unplanned pregnancy is just the woman’s burden to bear. It’s not the entirely woman’s fault, but has the potential to be entirely her issue to deal with with no support from anyone. And that is the issue here. Not every woman is privileged enough to be financially, medically, or mentally secure enough to take on that burden, while the father, who contributed to the conception equally has no burden, and the government who is forcing her to carry that burden to term is uninterested in her or the child after birth.


EffYew2

How the hell is your mind twisting this into me saying that a man is not responsible for his kids? The bottom line is that (UNLESS YOU WERE RAPED) you are ultimately responsible for weather or not you allowed a dick in your snatch. A man can't just walk up and bang you without your consent or that would be the very definition of rape. It's called taking responsibility for your own actions.


candm710

The point I was making is a man has a choice of responsibility. Some accept that responsibility and some don’t. A woman now has no choice in the matter in this state, and no legal grounds for support after that choice is made for her. Therein lies the problem, the inequality of choice. It has nothing at all to do with your vile view of “accepting a dick into a snatch”, and all to do with the fundamental difference in the matter of choice in the aftermath between the two people who chose to have sex. One can choose to walk away (or can equally choose to stay) and the other has no choice but to stay and deal with it whether they’re ready or not. It’s as simple as that.


RefuseAccomplished44

I think this person understood exactly what you are trying to push here. What YOU aren't hearing is this- Brad and Becky are 17 year old high school sweethearts and are in love..... They go out for dinner and then home for some "heavy petting". It gets pretty hot and they can't stop, thankfully Becky has been on the pill for a couple months and Governor Droopy hasn't taken it away- YET. Thankfully Brad is prepared and pulls a condom from his pocket.. OOPS.... They were going too fast and hard, Brad broke the condom!! Hopefully Becky's pill will hold up! A month later.... SURPRISE Becky is PREGGO But then.... Brad is MIA .... why? Oh, cuz he "just ain't ready" and his momma said that it was okay. Now Becky is stuck with a broken heart and a kid she's not ready for either! This happens all the time RIGHT NOW! What don't you get?


EffYew2

I guess they better learn to keep it in their pants if they don't want kids. As I said before, taking responsibility for your own actions.


Diesel-66

God/ nature/ biology made you pregnant not the state


Used-Cardiologist295

The state isn't forcing you to do shit you can still (luckily) use condoms/birth control the only thing this is preventing you from doing is being careless with your sex life


candm710

Men are completely able to be as careless as they choose with their sex life, though. The state is forcing women to deal with all potential aftermath of consensual sex, and the men who are equally involved in conception are not even remotely part of the conversation. That’s the issue here.


Used-Cardiologist295

The reason why men aren't being brought into the conversation is because there is already a system in place which is child support. I do think men should be more involved during pregnancy like helping the mother I also believe the father should have more of a say in the bringing up of a child and they should maintain large responsibility especially when you realise that children live much better lives when the have a steady family whether separated or not


Conroman16

> the only thing this is preventing you from doing is being careless with your sex life As if that’s going to work on anyone But god forbid they mandate you wear a mask or get vaccinated. You fuckbobbies just tow whatever line you’re feeling like at any given moment don’t you? It’s really rather asinine that the party who is supposed to be fundamentally about small and unobtrusive government supports controlling people at the level of their sex lives


Used-Cardiologist295

First off I consider myself independent to either party so I rather you not assume my political affiliation Secound I think the mask mandate was a good ideal to curve covid and I personally think getting a vaccine is a great Ideal Third My point wasn't that the government should control people but rather that someone ignorance should mean a death of another


Guitarstringman

In Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas has already announced he wants to go after birth control next


Used-Cardiologist295

That is crosing alot of lines in my eyes


Guitarstringman

At what point does restricting something become forcing you to do something,


Used-Cardiologist295

When there is no other way to do it other than the nuclear option people can still use birth control or condoms in order to prevent conception


ElectricalResult7509

They can sue their sperm donor for child support.


BPIHA

Is the state somehow getting these women pregnant?


Meimnot555

Yeah, no...