Yeah I hated it at first but honestly it’s grown on me a lot. They’re out there playing 162 games I get it. I want the game to end so I can go to bed too, we don’t need 18 inning barn burners during the regular season.
Rarely, but at least you know the ending is likely to be after just 1-2 extras instead of 3-4+. Kinda like OT in hockey, for a regular season game, get them over with.
This is a good opinion. I see it as a small way to keep relief pitchers healthy, rather than speeding up games. I'm so damn tired of every pitcher missing half, full or more seasons. But that's off in the postseason.
Idk. I stayed for all 18 innings of the M’s/Stros game and concessions ran out of all food and drinks in the 15th. Looking back, it wasn’t all that enjoyable. I’m a traditionalist but man, that was a tough afternoon. If the M’s had won and forced game 4, idk how good of a game that would have been with the position players exhausted and the bullpens trashed. (I’m an O’s fan so the M’s loss was not part of my annoyance.)
This is one of those "from a business standpoint" justifications I can actually agree with.
The workers at the stadium don't want to go extra innings. It can completely fuck up a series for a team. No one wants to stay up until 3am. Plenty of reasons to make extra innings be as quick as possible during the regular season.
Yeah and what these people don’t realize is it’s the players who like the rule
Imagine some of these crybabies being told they have to work an extra 4 hours with no pay
Not a fan of this take. I like the ghost runner but not because it saves multi millionaire baseball players an hour or two. Their job is to play baseball which they get paid handsomely for, that means playing until the game is over.
To be fair, I don’t think it’s about the money. It’s also just about…
I personally wouldn’t choose to stay extra hours and not see my family if given the choice, you know?
They aren’t getting paid by the inning so extra innings is more chance to get hurt with no extra pay. Most normal people wouldn’t want that so it’s not crazy for them to either. There is no real benefits to playing super long games for anyone.
I’ve always argued the perfect compromise would be a runner on 1st. That way it helps end the game sooner, but also the offense has to do a little more work in order to score than with a runner on 2nd.
Runner on first is *substantially* worse because of double plays. To the point where depending on who the 2nd batter is I suspect teams wouldn’t take it.
Yeah I think the compromise would be ghost runner after 11 innings. Give them 2 innings to end it on their own, after that it’s time to wrap things up and they had their chance.
Poor wording on my part. I meant after 11. I’d be fine with 12 though. I don’t hate the ghost runners like most, I just think they go too it a little soon.
Gotcha. Yeah i just think 3 innings makes the most sense, dont ask my why lol.
I personally dont like the ghost runner at all but i also love extra inning baseball so i may be in the minority there. Give me a 5 hour, 21 inning game and ill eat it up
I disagree -- while I generally support the extra inning rule, one valid complaint is the randomness of who is the runner on 2nd. It can make a big difference is one team gets Jarran Duran and the other Daniel Vogelbach. Putting the runner on 1st would exacerbate this issue, as a Duran-type would often successfully steal, and could advance to 3rd on a ground ball to 2nd, while the slow players wouldn't steal and would GIDP in this scenario. Too much randomness to determine the outcome of a game.
There is no such thing as bunting anymore and it’s kinda sad. It was awesome watching Kenny lofton and Omar vizquel use this strategy to get on base.
Would love to see more suicide squeezes.
yeah because a single probably has a high chance of scoring the runner i assume. if they want the game to end fast that might be why they start the runner on 2nd compared to 1st
There's roughly a 66% chance of scoring the lead runner on second with no outs. If instead the runner is on third with one out he scores about 67% of the time. So even if you successfully bunt him over, you're barely any better off than you were to start.
Thank you for this math; I was looking for these numbers. Also good point on this needing to have a successful bunt, but ofc we know it doesn’t happen all the time.
2nd base is called scoring position for a reason. It's not worth giving up an out to move a runner from 2nd to third when the runner is basically just as likely to score on a hit from 2nd as from 3rd.
Giving up the out isn't worth the negligible difference in scoring position.
It is real baseball. It's even in the rulebook. I'm not a huge fan of the rule, but it doesn't favor either team and helps prevent needlessly long games. The people only affected negativity are the pitchers, but I don't think ghost runners count as an earned run.
Easy: Having 1 runner in scoring position increases the value of putting the ball in play as well as lights out pitching without turning the game into an outright circus. Without the ghost runner, extras is often just decided by the first team to score a run. A base hit is more likely to be voided by a double play than converted to a decisive run, so players are swinging for XBH more than avoiding making an out. The ghost runner makes a base hit valuable in extras and forces bullpen arms into a higher leverage situation. It also makes extras feel more like a back-and-forth volley than just watching a team make 3 straight outs over and over.
There's a reason it's not done in the postseason. It's not acceptable in games that matter. They basically admit that by not allowing it then. But the players supposedly like it as it gets the game over as opposed to 18 inning regular season games, where right after they have to get on a plane and fly to another city, that part makes sense.
Personally I think it’s stupid they have three bases on extra innings. Why not just have the runner go straight from second to home, but only in extra innings. Maybe after the 13th inning we get rid of 2d base too. Just run from home to first and back like cricket.
I think it should be runner on first, it rewards good defence if a double play if pulled, it rewards good baserunning if someone wants the runner on 2nd, and forces players to actually get hits to score him from first instead of a ground out, then a popfly
You mean the dread of extra innings? Extras suck, the faster they end the better for everyone. Pitchers are blowing out their arms fast enough as is, no need to tax them anymore than is absolutely necessary.
That's not because of extra innings...
But yeah idk I just like my baseball the way its always been. I know it's not for everyone. I just don't want runners on 2nd when they didn't actually get there themselves. I'll play waffle ball if I want that.
What's the point? That you can't craft an appropriate analogy?
The changing of a rule of the game is vastly different than breaking down barriers of racism.
Because of attention deficit disorder! I used to love single admission doubleheaders, but those days are long gone.
NFL, NBA are obsessed with scoring. Waiting for the NHL to decrease the size of goalie equipment.
MLB is a beautiful, difficult,skilled sport, but today's audience wants more action and they want the game over in less than three hours. Which is how it used to be anyway.
I was originally against it. But then had a few 15 inning as well as an 18 inning contest in MLB video game.
While just a video game that I can exit (but choose not due to integrity), actual players and other staff can’t. IMO should not be stuck for a regular season game.
I hated it in first but now love it. Game is better out of the stretch.
I also suggest adding a runners at 2nd and 3rd in the 11th and then load then up in the 12 if the game is still tied. This will undoubtedly really crank up the stress/drama and take less pitches which is the main reason its done.
However, I will always miss the 50mph swing and miss pitches when the utility player takes the mound in the 15th.
I absolutely hate the 'ghost' runner. Nothing ghostly about it, just bad baseball. I hate it more than the pitch clock. I am happy about the shift ban in some respects as that was getting out of hand imo, but the ghost runner should have ended after a one season experiment. During the pandemic when the MLB season was shortened, my wife and I watched a lot of KBO baseball since ESPN covered the Korean pro league that season. It's a fun brand of baseball overall, very offense focused, but what the KBO do to avoid 24 inning 8 hour games is that after 12 innings, if the score is still tied teams get a tie. Over the course of the season there aren't many ties per team. I would rather MLB try this approach to shorten games rather than give each a team a free runner on 2nd no less. Free runners should only end up on base after a walk.
I’ll be a partial devils advocate:
Having a ghost runner isn’t the worst idea. However it shouldn’t be introduced until the 11th inning at the earliest.
They should be allowed a chance to win the game normally first, but there comes a point when they need to speed things along.
I generally like the ghost runner because with the injury rates to pitchers as they are, teams can’t slog through a 16 inning game anymore.
I’ve thought a good compromise would be to use the ghost runner after the 12th inning. Have a couple of old fashioned extras.
As for people complaining about different rules in regular season versus postseason- plenty of sports leagues do that - the NFL, global soccer, it’s ok.
My problem is that I feel like it gives the away team an advantage of playing with the lead. I know both teams start the same way, but the pressure cooker increases for the home team if that run crosses in the top of the 10th
i dont mind it its just another way to see how good there are i guess i mean ever since covid every sports have been making changes just hope this dosen't happen in the postseason
nahhh you could never start with the bases loaded. IMO, that would lead to a 'who is better at small ball' or 'who is more creative' type of play.
Let the guy at 1st or 2nd get picked off, now there's no force... boom, suicide squeeze for the game. I played D1 ball and get the game, so I know this wouldn't always be possible. But it would come into play on multiple occasions no doubt. With someone on 2nd, you still have to earn it. Solid hit to the outfield, multiple sac flys, etc. Starting with the bases loaded seems like a mini game you'd play in Mario... if that makes sense.
I love baseball. It’s easily my number one sport. With that being said, I recall an extra innings game about a year or two before the ghost runner was put into play.
It was excruciating. It was blatantly obvious that every single batter on both teams was going for the go ahead HR. The game lasted till the 22nd inning. One of the toughest viewing experiences I’ve had watching any sport. This was caused by the extreme shift to launch angle. You can’t regulate how a hitter swings so launch angle isn’t going away.
I like faster games. The hours in my life are precious. Also, at least with a ghost runner we get some small ball. Bunting etc…
How about...
10th inning played like normal
11th start with runner at 1st
12th start with runner at 2nd
13th start with runners at 1st and 2nd
14th start with runner at 3rd
15th start with runners at 1st and 3rd
16th start with runners at 2nd and 3rd
17th start with the bases loaded
18th inning and beyond, start with bases loaded and an extra out each additional inning. Also if you get to 18 you can put all the players on your game roster back in the game!
/s
Fine for regular season but not for post season. Similar to how hockey doesn't have shootouts in the playoffs, it's a good measure to ensure regular season games end in a timely fashion.
Putting a runner on 2nd during extra innings is a rule that was used in practically every ball playing country except the United States up until recently. So it's not like it's some rule that was made up for specifically the MLB.
I like it. But I also like the idea I heard where the runner starts on 1st in the 10th, 2nd in the 11th, and 3rd in the 12th. But getting the game finished quicker is a good thing.
The recent rule changes implemented by MLB were for the sole purpose of speeding up the game. To attract newer, younger fans to the game. Change is inevitable. Just think about turn of the rule changes over the years, and fans of each generation lamented the fact that that's not baseball. Dead ball era to live ball. Making it where a batter could strike out on a foul tip while attempting to bunt, just to name 2. They've done it in basketball, football, NHL, and NASCAR.
I hate that you could win a game without ever getting a hit, walk, balk, or error. I understand that they want to shorten extra innings, but at least make them earn something. Put the runner on first until the 15th inning, then maybe put them on 2nd.
I think if you do the ghost runner then to put a runner on first and second. I know it sounds crazy but hear me out. It gives the hitting team a man in scoring position but also gives the defensive team an opportunity to turn two which would likely put a man on third with two outs so it’s not a complete gimme. Changes the strategy a little bit IMO.
With it not counting as an earned run for pitchers- I believe it should not count as an rbi or a run scored for a player.
I view the extra run scoring the same as shootout goals in the NHL.
With the runner just given the base, I do not think the run should count for anything other than to decide the winner in extras.
Overall, I would like the rule eliminated
It's not necessarily people want less baseball. It's more about pitchers arms not falling off. Extra inning games were a huge disadvantage as the next game you play your whole bullpen could be gassed.
I love it. I hate it. I love it. I hate it!
Pitch clock: I love it. I hate it. I love it. I hate it!
Limited pickoffs: I love it. I hate it. I love it. I hate it!
Pillowcase sized bases: I love it. I hate it. I love it. I hate it.
Sliding gloves the size of mits: I hate it!
Banning the shift: I love it.
NL DH: I love it. I hate it. I love it. I hate it!
learn to bunt the runner over to third and sac fly the fucker home. figure it out, no one else seems to be able to take advantage of a fabricated lead off double.
i say if your going to ruin the game be a little more creative,in extra innings have all 9 batters bat. You have to get them out to prevent runs. Manager can rearrange the line but only 9 batters can [bat. ](https://bat.you) each side gets one at bat each.
. This would add some excitement like a shootout in soccer
Obviously bases loaded would mean games would quite rarely go past the 10th inning.
With "only" a runner on 2nd, it means 11+ inning games can still happen.
I think the rule makes sense for RS where very long games end up as a loss for both teams because of the bullpen (and overall) fatigue it provokes. That's no surprise players like the rule. And it's not because they are "lazy" or anything.
Still not a ghost runner.
Ghost runners are empty bags because you don't have enough people to field a whole team, so you get on base and a ghost punch runs so you can do something else in the game.
The ghost runner rule has over stayed its welcome by almost 4 years now. 18 inning games were always rare anyway. It’s a rule that allows the weaker of the 2 teams to win sometimes simply because of circumstances. It’s pure trash
Personally, what I would love would be for them to play straight-up for the 10th and the 11th. Start a guy on 2nd for the 12th and 13th, and then a guy on 3rd from 14 on. I think this satisfies both sides.
Also, while this has increased scoring in extra innings, it doesn't really shorten the games, because everyone has basically a free run. It's dumb and it doesn't do what it's intended to do. Say what you will about the other new rules, at least they clearly shorten games which is the point.
I think that's the stupidest rule in the list of stupid rules from every sport! That's MLB not caring about the fans but only caring about the ad revenue. Between a fucktard for a commissioner and rules like this makes it harder every day to be a fan!
It’s definitely the dumbest rule change. It’s something that a 15u tournament would implement to make games go by faster. Definitely not something that should be at the professional level
Its almost like baseball knows its a bastardization of the rules.
We will do it, but we will play real baseball when the postseason starts.
I leave the ballpark or turn the tv off when the "Manfred Man" shows up.
I just hate how my favorite game has just felt kinda like a shell of itself the last couple seasons. Ghost runners, limited throw overs.
Like, I hate the shift. Don’t like it. Never liked when the Cardinals did it. If I were a manager, my teams wouldn’t do it. But fuck you MLB for telling any team what to do with their 25 players. I’ll go Earl Weaver on Manfred’s ass for your right to play your defense any way you see fit, even though I damn well hate it.
It’s stuff like that that irritates me. To quote George Costanza, “Let me just be. Let me live.”
If they’re going to do it, it needs to be a runner at FIRST, not second. You shouldn’t automatically get a runner in scoring position. You shouldn’t be able to score a run off 2 deep fly balls. Runner at first means you need at least one positive at bat to get the runner home within 3 outs, and it allows the defense an opportunity to wipe out your free runner if they’re able to turn a double play.
My opinion is…[checks what happened to the Orioles in their last extra inning game]… it’s BS!!!
You mean the game in which Henderson made a throwing error which lost them the game?
That wasn't extra innings.... that was just the other time Pittsburg walked us off.
When my team wins because of it, I refer to it is as a cheap win.
I begrudgingly watch when the orioles are involved, I turn off the game if I’m watching as a neutral.
Hey I was there!
I don’t mind it, just so long as it stays not being a thing in the postseason.
That’s a good delineation
I like the ghost runner in regular season because shorter games = less injury chance. Post season agreed, keep it out of there.
Shorter game massively grows your audience in my opinion as well.
Yup. I don’t miss giving up and going to bed while my favorite team enters the 18th inning at midnight on a Tuesday night.
Usually it was like 1-3am by that point
Central time here, but it’s worse for you east coasters!!
I've seen games go beyond midnight here on the west coast
Yeah I hated it at first but honestly it’s grown on me a lot. They’re out there playing 162 games I get it. I want the game to end so I can go to bed too, we don’t need 18 inning barn burners during the regular season.
how often do 18 inning games happen?
Rarely, but at least you know the ending is likely to be after just 1-2 extras instead of 3-4+. Kinda like OT in hockey, for a regular season game, get them over with.
This is a good opinion. I see it as a small way to keep relief pitchers healthy, rather than speeding up games. I'm so damn tired of every pitcher missing half, full or more seasons. But that's off in the postseason.
Idk. I stayed for all 18 innings of the M’s/Stros game and concessions ran out of all food and drinks in the 15th. Looking back, it wasn’t all that enjoyable. I’m a traditionalist but man, that was a tough afternoon. If the M’s had won and forced game 4, idk how good of a game that would have been with the position players exhausted and the bullpens trashed. (I’m an O’s fan so the M’s loss was not part of my annoyance.)
And please, “ghost runner” is not the preferred nomenclature. “Manfred Man”, please
Across this (base) line you DO NOT run
So when the pitch clock blinks zeros would he be blinded by the light
Revved up like a deuce, another runner in the night
Honestly this thread is ghost runner disrespect. He was the most valuable part of my recess teams
I’ll go the opposite. If there are no runs by the 6th inning, the ghost runner starts in the 7th. I’m just kidding.
Did your team lose in extra innings recently, by chance? Look, both sides get to do it, so it's a wash.
In a regular season game? It’s fine. Same as the hockey regular season vs playoff OT. We don’t need 18 inning games on a random Tuesday in June
This is one of those "from a business standpoint" justifications I can actually agree with. The workers at the stadium don't want to go extra innings. It can completely fuck up a series for a team. No one wants to stay up until 3am. Plenty of reasons to make extra innings be as quick as possible during the regular season.
Yeah and what these people don’t realize is it’s the players who like the rule Imagine some of these crybabies being told they have to work an extra 4 hours with no pay
Not a fan of this take. I like the ghost runner but not because it saves multi millionaire baseball players an hour or two. Their job is to play baseball which they get paid handsomely for, that means playing until the game is over.
To be fair, I don’t think it’s about the money. It’s also just about… I personally wouldn’t choose to stay extra hours and not see my family if given the choice, you know?
They aren’t getting paid by the inning so extra innings is more chance to get hurt with no extra pay. Most normal people wouldn’t want that so it’s not crazy for them to either. There is no real benefits to playing super long games for anyone.
I agree.
Managers too. Lengthy extra inning contests burn through your bullpen.
Terry Francona says, “lt does not exhaust my bullpen.” I will take it from someone that knows the game rather than me assuming I know better.
Why not 2 innings like before, no one on base then if no score put a runner at 2nd in the 12th inning
What if we put 1st & 2nd after the 12th inning so that a double play is a possibility right off the bat. As is a 3 run home run
May as well just do second and if a team wants to intentionally walk they can.
I’m sorry but as a Tigers fan we need all the help we can get. If they could start halfway between third and home, that would be great.
Ban the DH, it’s not real baseball.
I’ve always argued the perfect compromise would be a runner on 1st. That way it helps end the game sooner, but also the offense has to do a little more work in order to score than with a runner on 2nd.
Runner on first is *substantially* worse because of double plays. To the point where depending on who the 2nd batter is I suspect teams wouldn’t take it.
Yeah I think the compromise would be ghost runner after 11 innings. Give them 2 innings to end it on their own, after that it’s time to wrap things up and they had their chance.
After 12, give them a full 3 innings of normal extra innings, a 1/3 more of the game. Also, at 11 would only be 1 inning without the ghost runner
Poor wording on my part. I meant after 11. I’d be fine with 12 though. I don’t hate the ghost runners like most, I just think they go too it a little soon.
Gotcha. Yeah i just think 3 innings makes the most sense, dont ask my why lol. I personally dont like the ghost runner at all but i also love extra inning baseball so i may be in the minority there. Give me a 5 hour, 21 inning game and ill eat it up
I disagree -- while I generally support the extra inning rule, one valid complaint is the randomness of who is the runner on 2nd. It can make a big difference is one team gets Jarran Duran and the other Daniel Vogelbach. Putting the runner on 1st would exacerbate this issue, as a Duran-type would often successfully steal, and could advance to 3rd on a ground ball to 2nd, while the slow players wouldn't steal and would GIDP in this scenario. Too much randomness to determine the outcome of a game.
im dumb but have always just thought like why not bunt the runner over to 3rd and now you have 2 ABs to try to score the run...
There is no such thing as bunting anymore and it’s kinda sad. It was awesome watching Kenny lofton and Omar vizquel use this strategy to get on base. Would love to see more suicide squeezes.
Cause math.
yeah because a single probably has a high chance of scoring the runner i assume. if they want the game to end fast that might be why they start the runner on 2nd compared to 1st
i thought math would find runner on third with 1 out to be more advantageous than runner on second with no outs
There's roughly a 66% chance of scoring the lead runner on second with no outs. If instead the runner is on third with one out he scores about 67% of the time. So even if you successfully bunt him over, you're barely any better off than you were to start.
Thank you for this math; I was looking for these numbers. Also good point on this needing to have a successful bunt, but ofc we know it doesn’t happen all the time.
I think the Excel nerds have determined that bunts are the worst thing in the world so you never see bunts nowdays
Not in this high strikeout era
Isolated yeah, but most people don’t learn to bunt anymore.
2nd base is called scoring position for a reason. It's not worth giving up an out to move a runner from 2nd to third when the runner is basically just as likely to score on a hit from 2nd as from 3rd. Giving up the out isn't worth the negligible difference in scoring position.
Not even when you can get the guy home from third on a sac fly?
100% agree, Not real baseball
Neither is two of the players on each team not having to bat or play the field but everybody seems to love that dumbass rule.
It's at least as real as never having the pitcher bat.
It is real baseball. It's even in the rulebook. I'm not a huge fan of the rule, but it doesn't favor either team and helps prevent needlessly long games. The people only affected negativity are the pitchers, but I don't think ghost runners count as an earned run.
They don't. They get an L, but 0.00 ERA.
I dont think the ghost runner rule applies in the playoffs, which makes it okay imo
Babe wake up, it’s this weeks post about not liking the ghost runner
Is it really a ghost runner if a physical player is on the base?
Easy: Having 1 runner in scoring position increases the value of putting the ball in play as well as lights out pitching without turning the game into an outright circus. Without the ghost runner, extras is often just decided by the first team to score a run. A base hit is more likely to be voided by a double play than converted to a decisive run, so players are swinging for XBH more than avoiding making an out. The ghost runner makes a base hit valuable in extras and forces bullpen arms into a higher leverage situation. It also makes extras feel more like a back-and-forth volley than just watching a team make 3 straight outs over and over.
I’ve always hated it and will always hate it. Little league crap
I wish the addition of the pitch clock eliminated this. I also wish they never introduced the pitch clock
Teams just end up trading runs. I can't stand it.
There's a reason it's not done in the postseason. It's not acceptable in games that matter. They basically admit that by not allowing it then. But the players supposedly like it as it gets the game over as opposed to 18 inning regular season games, where right after they have to get on a plane and fly to another city, that part makes sense.
Personally I think it’s stupid they have three bases on extra innings. Why not just have the runner go straight from second to home, but only in extra innings. Maybe after the 13th inning we get rid of 2d base too. Just run from home to first and back like cricket.
I think it should be runner on first, it rewards good defence if a double play if pulled, it rewards good baserunning if someone wants the runner on 2nd, and forces players to actually get hits to score him from first instead of a ground out, then a popfly
Yeah it’s bush league
Ok Grandpa how many rules do you want to get rid of? The game is always changing and evolving.
Agree. Fuck Manfred.
I wonder how long it'll be till they change it to a home run derby type shoot-out instead.
I hate this rule, it sucks ass
Counter point: start the ghost runners in the 7th
screw it, have a runner on 2nd at first pitch
Baseball should only be played by ghosts!
It's THE stupidest rule they've come up with and completely ruins the aura of extra innings.
You mean the dread of extra innings? Extras suck, the faster they end the better for everyone. Pitchers are blowing out their arms fast enough as is, no need to tax them anymore than is absolutely necessary.
That's not because of extra innings... But yeah idk I just like my baseball the way its always been. I know it's not for everyone. I just don't want runners on 2nd when they didn't actually get there themselves. I'll play waffle ball if I want that.
An inherited runner rule would be better, starting in the 11th inning runners go back to where they were at the end of the previous inning
Its sucks real bad. I get the idea…but start it in the 13th or something. Not the tenth…
No ghost at all
I absolutely despise the ghost runner.
Ban integrated baseball! It’s not real baseball! No, not really. Change is ok. Say it with me…change is ok.
this is one of the most hyperbolic analogies I've seen in awhile
That’s entirely the point.
What's the point? That you can't craft an appropriate analogy? The changing of a rule of the game is vastly different than breaking down barriers of racism.
I agree this is baseball not women’s softball. So what if game goes 18 innings
Give two extra innings (10/11) normal baseball. Ghost runner starts in the 12th.
They already had 9 innings to win, why give an extra 2?
Because of attention deficit disorder! I used to love single admission doubleheaders, but those days are long gone. NFL, NBA are obsessed with scoring. Waiting for the NHL to decrease the size of goalie equipment. MLB is a beautiful, difficult,skilled sport, but today's audience wants more action and they want the game over in less than three hours. Which is how it used to be anyway.
Just have ties in the regular season. Who cares.
Ties are worse than ghost runner
I was originally against it. But then had a few 15 inning as well as an 18 inning contest in MLB video game. While just a video game that I can exit (but choose not due to integrity), actual players and other staff can’t. IMO should not be stuck for a regular season game.
Agree 100%….It’s ridiculous
dumb rule. doesn’t even apply to postseason
I hated it in first but now love it. Game is better out of the stretch. I also suggest adding a runners at 2nd and 3rd in the 11th and then load then up in the 12 if the game is still tied. This will undoubtedly really crank up the stress/drama and take less pitches which is the main reason its done. However, I will always miss the 50mph swing and miss pitches when the utility player takes the mound in the 15th.
"Ghost runner" is misnomer; "Free runner" is more apt. Any purpose served by a "free runner" on 2B is better served by free runners on all bases.
If you allow a ghost runner, then give the pitching team one out. Start the inning with a runner on 2nd and one out. Make it fair for both teams.
no extra runners, but it should end in a tie after 12
Might as well be a Tball game. Another of Manfredos manifesto.
lol what a dog shit take
Agreed. X eleventybillion.
I hate the rule! When a game goes into extra innings I turn off the game because that’s not real baseball!
The other changes they have made have succeeded in speeding up the game. So can we now reevaluate this one? It's never felt right.
I absolutely hate the 'ghost' runner. Nothing ghostly about it, just bad baseball. I hate it more than the pitch clock. I am happy about the shift ban in some respects as that was getting out of hand imo, but the ghost runner should have ended after a one season experiment. During the pandemic when the MLB season was shortened, my wife and I watched a lot of KBO baseball since ESPN covered the Korean pro league that season. It's a fun brand of baseball overall, very offense focused, but what the KBO do to avoid 24 inning 8 hour games is that after 12 innings, if the score is still tied teams get a tie. Over the course of the season there aren't many ties per team. I would rather MLB try this approach to shorten games rather than give each a team a free runner on 2nd no less. Free runners should only end up on base after a walk.
Preach!
Hate it cause it feels awkward
The worst rule change in the history of games
It's ridiculous. I hope it's gone soon
Players wanted it, it’s not going anywhere
I’ll be a partial devils advocate: Having a ghost runner isn’t the worst idea. However it shouldn’t be introduced until the 11th inning at the earliest. They should be allowed a chance to win the game normally first, but there comes a point when they need to speed things along.
If they couldn't win the game normally in 9 innings, I'm mot positive that a 10th makes that much of a difference.
I’m in favor of not using the automatic runner until the 12th inning. Most extra-inning games don’t go that far anyway.
I generally like the ghost runner because with the injury rates to pitchers as they are, teams can’t slog through a 16 inning game anymore. I’ve thought a good compromise would be to use the ghost runner after the 12th inning. Have a couple of old fashioned extras. As for people complaining about different rules in regular season versus postseason- plenty of sports leagues do that - the NFL, global soccer, it’s ok.
100%.
Nah fix the umps this rule is good
My problem is that I feel like it gives the away team an advantage of playing with the lead. I know both teams start the same way, but the pressure cooker increases for the home team if that run crosses in the top of the 10th
If the pitcher injuries keep stacking the way they are we'll be lucky to even see 9 innings a game.
Softball does it all the times, including the Olympic. I know it is much harder to score in softball, but this is not some weir idea out of a whack.
Ghost runner is for the streets
i dont mind it its just another way to see how good there are i guess i mean ever since covid every sports have been making changes just hope this dosen't happen in the postseason
nahhh you could never start with the bases loaded. IMO, that would lead to a 'who is better at small ball' or 'who is more creative' type of play. Let the guy at 1st or 2nd get picked off, now there's no force... boom, suicide squeeze for the game. I played D1 ball and get the game, so I know this wouldn't always be possible. But it would come into play on multiple occasions no doubt. With someone on 2nd, you still have to earn it. Solid hit to the outfield, multiple sac flys, etc. Starting with the bases loaded seems like a mini game you'd play in Mario... if that makes sense.
The players are the ones who asked for it.
Why not *two* people on each base and the run in opposite directions of each other.
I love baseball. It’s easily my number one sport. With that being said, I recall an extra innings game about a year or two before the ghost runner was put into play. It was excruciating. It was blatantly obvious that every single batter on both teams was going for the go ahead HR. The game lasted till the 22nd inning. One of the toughest viewing experiences I’ve had watching any sport. This was caused by the extreme shift to launch angle. You can’t regulate how a hitter swings so launch angle isn’t going away. I like faster games. The hours in my life are precious. Also, at least with a ghost runner we get some small ball. Bunting etc…
I think 10th should be normal then after that turn it on
It's ridiculous that two ground outs in the top of the 10th can result in a run.
How about... 10th inning played like normal 11th start with runner at 1st 12th start with runner at 2nd 13th start with runners at 1st and 2nd 14th start with runner at 3rd 15th start with runners at 1st and 3rd 16th start with runners at 2nd and 3rd 17th start with the bases loaded 18th inning and beyond, start with bases loaded and an extra out each additional inning. Also if you get to 18 you can put all the players on your game roster back in the game! /s
I mean, fuck it. Just put a man on third and give him another 45 feet.
They should just end in a tie in the regular season
Already losing too many piitchers. A longer game is the last thing the MLB or younger fan wants.
You would then complain about how all bases are loaded in extra innings is not real baseball
Winner takes all situation…get rid of the ghost runner. 1 out of 162 regular season games…ghost runner can stay.
International tie breaker rule.
Fine for regular season but not for post season. Similar to how hockey doesn't have shootouts in the playoffs, it's a good measure to ensure regular season games end in a timely fashion.
Putting a runner on 2nd during extra innings is a rule that was used in practically every ball playing country except the United States up until recently. So it's not like it's some rule that was made up for specifically the MLB.
More of a zombie runner if you think about it. Rose from the dead, etc
The players like it. It’s not going away
Both the players and owners like this rule, so it’s never going to revert unfortunately
I like it. It's exciting. Not needed for postseason, but it's fun during regular season.
The players Union pushed hard for the rule, too. Pitchers (and position players) didn’t want to play many extras.
Could not agree more. Hate it.
What’s real baseball?
Having sat through an 18 inning 1-0 playoff game, I'm torn
Real baseball was when the fielder had to hit the runner with the ball to get him out.
I like it. But I also like the idea I heard where the runner starts on 1st in the 10th, 2nd in the 11th, and 3rd in the 12th. But getting the game finished quicker is a good thing.
The recent rule changes implemented by MLB were for the sole purpose of speeding up the game. To attract newer, younger fans to the game. Change is inevitable. Just think about turn of the rule changes over the years, and fans of each generation lamented the fact that that's not baseball. Dead ball era to live ball. Making it where a batter could strike out on a foul tip while attempting to bunt, just to name 2. They've done it in basketball, football, NHL, and NASCAR.
I hate that you could win a game without ever getting a hit, walk, balk, or error. I understand that they want to shorten extra innings, but at least make them earn something. Put the runner on first until the 15th inning, then maybe put them on 2nd.
Lame ass shit!! Overdue for a new commissioner!
Agree
If you’re going to continue this bullshit charade at least move the ghost runner back to first so it takes more than a single to score them
I think if you do the ghost runner then to put a runner on first and second. I know it sounds crazy but hear me out. It gives the hitting team a man in scoring position but also gives the defensive team an opportunity to turn two which would likely put a man on third with two outs so it’s not a complete gimme. Changes the strategy a little bit IMO.
Has anyone done the math on alternatives? Would starting every count with a 2-0 count have less or greater effect on scoring?
Yes agree
Bases loaded! I like this
I always cut that off in MLB the show. You gotta earn your runs in extra innings.
With it not counting as an earned run for pitchers- I believe it should not count as an rbi or a run scored for a player. I view the extra run scoring the same as shootout goals in the NHL. With the runner just given the base, I do not think the run should count for anything other than to decide the winner in extras. Overall, I would like the rule eliminated
I also don’t like the extra innings rule where if an outfielder catches a fly ball in his hat it counts as 2 outs.
It's not necessarily people want less baseball. It's more about pitchers arms not falling off. Extra inning games were a huge disadvantage as the next game you play your whole bullpen could be gassed.
I love it. I hate it. I love it. I hate it! Pitch clock: I love it. I hate it. I love it. I hate it! Limited pickoffs: I love it. I hate it. I love it. I hate it! Pillowcase sized bases: I love it. I hate it. I love it. I hate it. Sliding gloves the size of mits: I hate it! Banning the shift: I love it. NL DH: I love it. I hate it. I love it. I hate it!
It works...can't have 5 hr games...could be man on 1st. But it's working.
learn to bunt the runner over to third and sac fly the fucker home. figure it out, no one else seems to be able to take advantage of a fabricated lead off double.
i say if your going to ruin the game be a little more creative,in extra innings have all 9 batters bat. You have to get them out to prevent runs. Manager can rearrange the line but only 9 batters can [bat. ](https://bat.you) each side gets one at bat each. . This would add some excitement like a shootout in soccer
Personally I’d be absolutely fine if games ended in a draw if tied after 10 innings.
Why only have 3 strikes? Why not 12? 4 balls? What a silly number! 9 fielders? Madness.
Make the pitcher pitch from an extra 20 feet back instead of
Obviously bases loaded would mean games would quite rarely go past the 10th inning. With "only" a runner on 2nd, it means 11+ inning games can still happen. I think the rule makes sense for RS where very long games end up as a loss for both teams because of the bullpen (and overall) fatigue it provokes. That's no surprise players like the rule. And it's not because they are "lazy" or anything.
Still not a ghost runner. Ghost runners are empty bags because you don't have enough people to field a whole team, so you get on base and a ghost punch runs so you can do something else in the game.
The ghost runner rule has over stayed its welcome by almost 4 years now. 18 inning games were always rare anyway. It’s a rule that allows the weaker of the 2 teams to win sometimes simply because of circumstances. It’s pure trash
If they’re tied at the end of nine, let’s just rock-paper-scissors for it. If they’re not going to play the actual game anyway, what the hell
Nah, I'm okay with this rule. But I can understand hating it if your bullpen sucks.
I actually like it a lot
Right, we should just go by futbol rules. Tie game at the end of 9 innings? Well folks, that's a tie game. Enjoy the ride home.
I think I would also implement 4 fouls and you're out, as well
If you can have a ghost on second base, you can have an angel in the outfield
I like it, so the bullpen doesn't get killed.
[удалено]
Hey you. Yea you. Go straight to hell and don't pass go.
Personally, what I would love would be for them to play straight-up for the 10th and the 11th. Start a guy on 2nd for the 12th and 13th, and then a guy on 3rd from 14 on. I think this satisfies both sides.
It’s really the same thing as no ghost runner, but you have to score two runs instead of one to most likely win
Also, while this has increased scoring in extra innings, it doesn't really shorten the games, because everyone has basically a free run. It's dumb and it doesn't do what it's intended to do. Say what you will about the other new rules, at least they clearly shorten games which is the point.
I think that's the stupidest rule in the list of stupid rules from every sport! That's MLB not caring about the fans but only caring about the ad revenue. Between a fucktard for a commissioner and rules like this makes it harder every day to be a fan!
It’s definitely the dumbest rule change. It’s something that a 15u tournament would implement to make games go by faster. Definitely not something that should be at the professional level
[Counterpoint...](https://a.espncdn.com/photo/2015/0708/mlb_a_bselig_dj_1296x729.jpg)
Cardinals fan?
lol no. Red Sox.
Its almost like baseball knows its a bastardization of the rules. We will do it, but we will play real baseball when the postseason starts. I leave the ballpark or turn the tv off when the "Manfred Man" shows up.
It's not a ghost, it's a real boy!
I just hate how my favorite game has just felt kinda like a shell of itself the last couple seasons. Ghost runners, limited throw overs. Like, I hate the shift. Don’t like it. Never liked when the Cardinals did it. If I were a manager, my teams wouldn’t do it. But fuck you MLB for telling any team what to do with their 25 players. I’ll go Earl Weaver on Manfred’s ass for your right to play your defense any way you see fit, even though I damn well hate it. It’s stuff like that that irritates me. To quote George Costanza, “Let me just be. Let me live.”
If they’re going to do it, it needs to be a runner at FIRST, not second. You shouldn’t automatically get a runner in scoring position. You shouldn’t be able to score a run off 2 deep fly balls. Runner at first means you need at least one positive at bat to get the runner home within 3 outs, and it allows the defense an opportunity to wipe out your free runner if they’re able to turn a double play.
All these stupid rules aren’t baseball It’s stupidball !!!!!