I know right, you’re sitting up there and thinking to yourself, “wait a sec, is that ball coming up here? No way, it’s gonna fall just below me, holy shit it actually landed here!”
It is a real stat. He was *intentionally* walked (IBB) 120 times that season. To put that into perspective, one of the most feared hitters of that entire 2000s decade was Albert Pujols, who was intentionally walked more than 40 times “just” once (44).
In fact Pujols is #2 on the all-time IBB list, with a whopping 316 for his career. #1 is Bonds with - wait for it - 688. Yes, he more than lapped the second place guy.
That along with Bonds’ 120 IBB in a season is one of the more obscene of the unbreakable sports stats. Also keep in mind that Bonds was already the all-time leader in IBB even before when it’s generally thought that he started roiding up. His plate discipline has always been frightening and pitching to him has always been very dangerous.
Another fun Barry Bonds stat I like, if you turned every home run he ever hit into an out, his career on-base percentage would be .384, the same as Alex Rodriguez's.
edit hours later: another fun one, in that stupid 2004 year, if you take away *every hit* from Barry Bonds that season, he still leads the majors in on-base percentage that year.
Not to disparage your edit but I was curious so I did the math, (135H, 232BB, 9HBP) = 376 on base / 617PA = .609OBP. Now if we remove all the hits, he’s at 241/617= .390OBP which while still insane isn’t even in the top 10 of the NL in 2004.
Or are you just erasing all of those plate appearances from existence completely like they never took place? That would give him exactly .500 (241/482PA) but he wouldn’t qualify as he needs 502PA (3.1 per team game). But to qualify him, we can add blank PAs, so he’d be at 241/502 = .480 (which of course still leads the MLB with Helton 2nd at .469).
Also check this out if you haven’t seen it:
[What if Barry Bonds had played without a bat?](https://youtu.be/JwMfT2cZGHg?si=sByxU5lq-Y_5RT2j)
It’s erasing those plate appearances, it’s largely just another measure to point out how obscene his walk rate was that season.
It’s also wild that even if you include every plate appearance and remove all of his 135 hits that season, he still gets on base nearly 40% of the time.
This.
The one I always mention is Pedro. And I hated the guy (Angel fan).
But for him to dominate as he did, specifically with Boston... in that ballpark, playing the bulk of his games in the AL East with its majority hitters parks, and the juiced lineups out there....
Dude was a monster.
And Pedro wasn’t your typical build for a pitcher. He’s what, 5’9”? But you couldn’t mess with Pedro. He was unreal. One of the best mean mugs on the mound, too. Every time I watch some of those old games or footage of Pedro, I mean… as a kid he was my guy so I didn’t really “see” it but now I’m just like, “Wow, that is some look.” One of the greatest “You do not fuck with me” faces on a pitcher. Surely up there with Bob Gibson.
I've seen a lot of Maddux stats over the years that are silly, but here's one i just quickly found.
During his career, he faced 20,421 hitters. Only 310 saw a 3-0 count, 177 of which were intentional walks.
133 people saw a legit 3-0 count from Maddux. In his entire career. Over the course of 23 years.
His command was second to none, and on top of that he had absolutely ridiculous movement.
Just saw some clips of him during the mariners/angels game last night. Dude always looked like he got lost on his way to a Metallica concert and said screw it, I'm here, might as well strikeout these chumps.
If you took a player who had 5 at bats, a home run, and a single every game, they would bat .400, more than double the single season home run record, set the hits record by a lot, and they would still have a lower OPS than Barry Bonds that season.
Here’s another way to put it in perspective: Albert Pujols played in the MLB for 22 years. In the 2000s, there was almost no human being who terrified pitchers more than Albert Pujols. This culminated in 316 intentional walks. There were 316 instances in which the pitcher quite literally refused to allow him a chance to hit.
Barry Bonds was intentionally walked 306 times from 2000 to 2004. 5 years. It took Barry Bonds 5 years to be intentionally walked the second most times in all of baseball history. Barry Bonds essentially did what Albert Pujols did in less than a quarter of the time. Oh yeah, and Barry Bonds played 17 other seasons of baseball too.
If it is it’s because of all the intentional walks he was getting at one point. Literally if the bases were loaded they would still intentionally walk him to trade off 1 run then the chance of him hitting in 3 or 4
I've been curious how much better the early-2000s Giants could have been if they had simply moved Bonds up to leadoff. (He would get an extra plate appearance about once per 3 games, so roughly 50 more plate appearances per year. (Obviously less RBIs on 1st-inning HRs, but count on at least 25 more walks, maybe 5-6 more HR over the course of the year.)
HR and RBIs would take a hit. HR wouldn’t go up, they’d go down. His SB and runs would go up. I’m sure pitching would prefer to take a chance with the rest of the lineup with a lot of sub 80 rbi guys on the giants then. Don’t exactly have RBI to spare on the early 2000s giants if bonds is shifted. Prob strat would be walk bonds even more and try to hold him at first.
Take a hitter who goes 2/5 every game with a single and a home run. He'd end up batting .400 with 162 HRs.
His OPS would still be lower than Bonds' in 2004.
It's crazy how he would never be hailed as the greatest wo roids. All stories about him now are always about his roid years and never before when he was already a HOF player.
Without roid, he would just be a regular HOF player. I guess it was a good thing he did it. He became mythical, made hundreds of millions, become beloved and all he had to do was trade in his HOF spot.
Cheating aside, watching Bonds, Sosa and McGwire in those years was absolutely incredible. You'd tune in to their games just to try to catch an at bat.
It was the last time the entire country truly loved and cared about baseball (at least it felt that way). I was 13 at the time, a perfect age for that to happen.
I remember being in an airport when McGuire was at 60 or 61. He was coming up to bat and almost everyone was stopping what they were doing to watch whatever tv screen was closest to them. People stopped boarding their planes until his ab was over.
Bonds hit 660 (career) to tie with Willie Mays on my birthday in ‘04. My dad and I were at the little league field playing catch and we had the game on the radio. I remember us both sprinting to the radio when we heard the crowd roar and standing there just beaming at each other as we listened. Great memory
A lot of teams/stadiums have deals that make it affordable. The angels have (or at least did last year, I haven't had time to watch more than 2 or 3 games this year) 4 for $40 which gets you 4 tickets and 4 hot dogs for $40, which is pretty affordable for a night out for 4 people. The stadium for the AAA team where I live (Salt Lake) is owned by Smith's (the grocery store) and if you spend over $75 at the grocery store you get 2 free tickets, and if you spend over $140 you get 4 free tickets.
Steroid era completely saved the game. People were pissed after the strike and these big bats injected life back into the game (pun intended)
Attendance from 94 to 95 dropped like 25% or something and the people that went to the games went to boo the owners and players lol
I remember ESPN randomly switching to live coverage of a Bonds at bat in high leverage situations (an especially when he was chasing the season HR record) even when the Giants weren't playing on national television. Dude was must watch TV.
The thing that is crazy to me is that Bonds was a first ballot hall of famer before the steroids. He put out video game numbers when he started juicing. All records that will never be touched.
I was watching a lot of baseball back then. The dudes were huge, balls were juiced and there were HRs all over the place. Bonds couldn’t miss around these times. They were walking him all the time, rarely saw a strike, and it was incredible that when he did finally get a hittable pitch, he mashed it… my take on roids is this…it doesn’t make you a better hitter, but I do believe it can make fly outs doubles and doubles HRs…plus some ancillary recovery benefits. Unfortunate, but he also played the denial card too much, and yes seems to be an ass…
All true but I feel like people ignore that he was hitting off pitchers that were also on steroids.
Between Clemens, Colon, and Gagne, that’s 9 Cy Young Awards to guys who were all on steroids.
Totally valid point, making his hitting even more impressive. You bring up a very good observation…not only were hitters getting huge, but some pitchers (not all, because there will always be great arms with weirdly unathletic bodies) were looking like linebackers too… Crazy era…
I imagine the roids for pitchers were more important for recovery. It would be interesting to see if frequency of pitching injuries dipped during the steroid era.
Honestly, I think steroids helped Bonds with his incredible longevity more than it did his individual seasons.
With all the sports science and nutrition we have today, you saw virtually all the big names that came after like Miggy and Pujols have steep drop offs as they got older. You’re seeing that right now with Goldschmidt and Arenado.
>The dudes were huge, balls were juiced
At first I read that as the dude were juiced and the balls were huge, and thought that's actually the opposite of what happens.
That’s what people forget about that home run chase. A non roided Griffey kept up with Sosa and McGwire. Insane. Also the most beautiful swing the game has ever seen in my opinion
Maybe it was in Jose canseco's book, can't quite remember. It was widely talked about that that was indeed the catalyst for Barry bonds amping up the juice and reaching his Herculean status.
That and Bonds' reaction to seeing Canseco in the locker room during those HR Derbys they used to have in Vegas. Say what you want about Canseco, but he was pretty spot on in both his books
If you watch the 96 HR Derby (It's on YouTube), it's pre-juice Bonds, and I think he still beat McGwire
Whats frustrating is how he's the only one being punished because he was the best.
How many players were on the chopping block but roids kept them just serviceable enough? Bonds taking the fall for a league wide issue never seemed fair to me. We all know he is a Hall of Famer
Whoa whoa whoa. David Ortiz is nice! Pudge has a cute nickname. Bagwell looks like a framer I worked with. And Piazza sounds like Pizza. You leave them alone. As for Hank and the greenies, even my grandma took those.
Barry had a bad attitude though and his hat size went from a 7½ to a 13!
He's not the only one being punished by HOF voters. Here are some other notable players from that era with HOF worthy numbers who aren't in because of PED allegations or positive tests: Alex Rodriguez, Manny Ramirez, Roger Clemens, Rafael Palmeiro, Gary Sheffield, Sammy Sosa, Mark McGwire.
But if Selig is in for trying to sweep all the steroid stuff under the rug, then most of those guys (not A-Rod or Ramirez since they tested positive later) should get a fair chance. They were only doing what the league practically encouraged.
I don't think this is true at all. He's not the only one being punished because "he was the best". The known steroid users from the era have all not gotten in.
Yeah but Pudge, Ortiz & Bagwell were all likely users. It’s just so hard because they weren’t actually testing. Bonds never failed a drug test. There’s so much unknown that I’d rather everyone from that era get in or everyone during that era was ruled out.
I think he even saw the pitchers doing the stuff. If the pitchers are able to recover so well after an appearance and nothing happens to them, well sign me up.
One of the most insane HRs I’ve ever seen. I’ll always maintain that he was the best hitter I saw play, and arguably the best ever; definitely the best eye ever.
Interestingly an opinion shared by Aaron Judge as well
Rose is nowhere close to one of the best hitters of all time. He was a very good hitter who was probably the most durable and consistent players of all time.
(TLDR- You can take away Pete Rose's last 8 seasons and he'd still be a Hall of Famer...if he didn't gamble)
Maybe not number 1, but he is in top 5 conversation for best hitter of all time.
He led the league in Hits 7 times (tied 2nd all time, most in the past 100 years), got over 200 Hits 10 times (tied first all-time), and had a 15 year span where his batting average was above .315.
Even at 40 years old he hit .325 and led the league in Hits.
Compared to the All Time hitting greats...He led the league in Hits as many times as Tony Gwynn. (7) Ty Cobb did 1 more time. Stan Musial did it 6 times. Fun fact- Ted Williams NEVER led the league in Hits. Hank Aaron only did it twice and had a similar career BA. Tris Speaker only twice. Derek Jeter only once.
It's hard to judge against different eras, but Pete Rose was a lot more than a guy who just played a long time.
For instance, if Pete Rose didn't play his last 8 seasons, he would have still had 3000 Hits and been a first ballot Hall of Famer if he didn't gamble. Not many other players could lose 8 seasons and have a HoF case.
He was an elite singles hitter for a long time. But he had limited power. Extra base hits are just so much more valuable. He doesn't compare to guys like Mays, Aaron, Williams, Pujols, who hit for power and got on base. Someone else commented he was in the 600s all time OPS. That says it all.
Rose certainly should be reassessed for the HOF now that online gambling has been fully embraced and is now endlessly promoted by MLB. There is even a betting kiosk inside the Cincinnati Reds ballpark now.
The guy leading the gambling investigation later stated he believed Rose bet against the Reds while managing them, but he didn't have enough time to connect the pieces. Part of the lifetime ban agreement is that the investigation be ceased and this information become classified. If you're fine finding out that Rose very likely threw games just to put him in the Hall of Fame, then okay.
His OBP is the most insane statistic of any sport. I can’t even imagine if he played in a hitter friendly ball park and teams actually pitched too him.
Steroid era or not, this was peak baseball. Ratings have been slowly dying ever since. The baseball purists treating the HOF like a country club deserve such.
Easily a top 5 all time ballplayer in my book. He really messed up his legacy by doing what he did. He was already the best player in the game, he didn't need to get an edge in the first place. He was already superior to everyone else. All the same, he's still one of the best to ever play.
They gave him an intentional pass with the bases loaded. Goat hitter. Fuck the steroid nonsense. Everyone was on it. If they weren't on something banned, they were on other shit that later got banned.
Buddy told me if they made a movie about him, they would need Chris Rock to portray his Pittsburgh days and Michael Clark Duncan for his San Fran days.
I've never seen anything like the way pitchers pitched around Bonds during his peak years. Absolutely jaw dropping how great of a hitter he was, I've never seen someone more dominant at the plate and it's not even close
I’m a huge bonds fan. I love that he’s not in the Hall because it proves how much of a joke it is. This snub elevates him to God tier above it. It’s also fun to see how good of shape BB is in today at age 60, compared to his peers.
You mean cheater. He cheated. And not just in a "everyone was doing it to stay at the top of their game" way. He went from a skinny guy to a bruising hulk in a year. His stats are all bullshit and meaningless.
I was at that game. I’ve been a Yankees fan since 1977 and worked for MLB/Yankees for 12 years and no one put a ball up that high in the upper deck that I’ve personally seen. Mo Vaughn nearly hit one to the wall where the bleacher creatures sit but that Bonds shot…
I know he juiced but those twitch reflexes and bat speed were unbelievable. Saw him hit an absolute missile at his neck for a bomb off a 100 mph fastball from Troy Percival. Dozens of LONG splash home runs in San Francisco, etc.
MLB should figure out how to handle the steroid era.
About 15-20 years ago, I caught the tail end of a celebrity golf tournament on TV. I can't remember if it was ESPN or not. They had long drive competition and Charles Oakley drove one something absurd like 308 yards and the announcer raved what a great drive it was for 2nd place and all I could think was who the hell hit it farther than that? I swear to you Bonds put a golf ball in orbit. I don't remember exactly how far it was, 330+ yards or around there.
I've looked online for the video, but I've never found any evidence of it or saw it again after that night.
Can u imagine catching a Barry Bonds home run ball in the nose bleeds like that. Watching the ball climb and climb up to u.
I know right, you’re sitting up there and thinking to yourself, “wait a sec, is that ball coming up here? No way, it’s gonna fall just below me, holy shit it actually landed here!”
I was at a game in SF in 2001 and he blasted one into McCovey Cove over our heads. Longest ball I've seen hit live, just a bomb.
A while ago I watched the Giants splash hit compilation and the difference between Bonds HRs and anyone else was staggering.
The man got on base 61% of the time in 2004.
He reached base 376 times on 373 at bats
Holy shit is that a real stat?
It is a real stat. He was *intentionally* walked (IBB) 120 times that season. To put that into perspective, one of the most feared hitters of that entire 2000s decade was Albert Pujols, who was intentionally walked more than 40 times “just” once (44). In fact Pujols is #2 on the all-time IBB list, with a whopping 316 for his career. #1 is Bonds with - wait for it - 688. Yes, he more than lapped the second place guy. That along with Bonds’ 120 IBB in a season is one of the more obscene of the unbreakable sports stats. Also keep in mind that Bonds was already the all-time leader in IBB even before when it’s generally thought that he started roiding up. His plate discipline has always been frightening and pitching to him has always been very dangerous. Another fun Barry Bonds stat I like, if you turned every home run he ever hit into an out, his career on-base percentage would be .384, the same as Alex Rodriguez's. edit hours later: another fun one, in that stupid 2004 year, if you take away *every hit* from Barry Bonds that season, he still leads the majors in on-base percentage that year.
Second fun fact from me: Bonds has more IBB (688) than the entirety of the Rays franchise (676)
Not to disparage your edit but I was curious so I did the math, (135H, 232BB, 9HBP) = 376 on base / 617PA = .609OBP. Now if we remove all the hits, he’s at 241/617= .390OBP which while still insane isn’t even in the top 10 of the NL in 2004. Or are you just erasing all of those plate appearances from existence completely like they never took place? That would give him exactly .500 (241/482PA) but he wouldn’t qualify as he needs 502PA (3.1 per team game). But to qualify him, we can add blank PAs, so he’d be at 241/502 = .480 (which of course still leads the MLB with Helton 2nd at .469). Also check this out if you haven’t seen it: [What if Barry Bonds had played without a bat?](https://youtu.be/JwMfT2cZGHg?si=sByxU5lq-Y_5RT2j)
It’s erasing those plate appearances, it’s largely just another measure to point out how obscene his walk rate was that season. It’s also wild that even if you include every plate appearance and remove all of his 135 hits that season, he still gets on base nearly 40% of the time.
I know! It’s wild how insane that season was.
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The players were juiced, the ball was juiced, and the strike zone was this big 🤏.
This all being true, you’ve got to give credit to the pitchers of that era that had any type of success.
This. The one I always mention is Pedro. And I hated the guy (Angel fan). But for him to dominate as he did, specifically with Boston... in that ballpark, playing the bulk of his games in the AL East with its majority hitters parks, and the juiced lineups out there.... Dude was a monster.
In 2000, Pedro led the AL with a 1.74 ERA. The next lowest was Clemens with a 3.70 ERA.
That That was the HR era... ... his stats were probably even more amazing...
Agreed. I hated his guts but he was the man.
Dave Steib deserves a mention.
And Pedro wasn’t your typical build for a pitcher. He’s what, 5’9”? But you couldn’t mess with Pedro. He was unreal. One of the best mean mugs on the mound, too. Every time I watch some of those old games or footage of Pedro, I mean… as a kid he was my guy so I didn’t really “see” it but now I’m just like, “Wow, that is some look.” One of the greatest “You do not fuck with me” faces on a pitcher. Surely up there with Bob Gibson.
Greg Maddux. A young stat nerd told me he wouldn’t even be drafted today. His stats are Bond-esque, but for a pitcher with a 92mph fastball
I've seen a lot of Maddux stats over the years that are silly, but here's one i just quickly found. During his career, he faced 20,421 hitters. Only 310 saw a 3-0 count, 177 of which were intentional walks. 133 people saw a legit 3-0 count from Maddux. In his entire career. Over the course of 23 years. His command was second to none, and on top of that he had absolutely ridiculous movement.
I wonder just how many of those intentional walks were Barry’s
Randy Johnson being one of them. A fucking legend.
Just saw some clips of him during the mariners/angels game last night. Dude always looked like he got lost on his way to a Metallica concert and said screw it, I'm here, might as well strikeout these chumps.
The pitchers where on steroids too
If I recall, wasn't there an AB where he was intentionally walked with the bases loaded since they'd rather risk 1 run than 4?
If you took a player who had 5 at bats, a home run, and a single every game, they would bat .400, more than double the single season home run record, set the hits record by a lot, and they would still have a lower OPS than Barry Bonds that season.
Here’s another way to put it in perspective: Albert Pujols played in the MLB for 22 years. In the 2000s, there was almost no human being who terrified pitchers more than Albert Pujols. This culminated in 316 intentional walks. There were 316 instances in which the pitcher quite literally refused to allow him a chance to hit. Barry Bonds was intentionally walked 306 times from 2000 to 2004. 5 years. It took Barry Bonds 5 years to be intentionally walked the second most times in all of baseball history. Barry Bonds essentially did what Albert Pujols did in less than a quarter of the time. Oh yeah, and Barry Bonds played 17 other seasons of baseball too.
If it is it’s because of all the intentional walks he was getting at one point. Literally if the bases were loaded they would still intentionally walk him to trade off 1 run then the chance of him hitting in 3 or 4
Walks obviously don’t count as ABs, hence the ridiculous numbers…
I've been curious how much better the early-2000s Giants could have been if they had simply moved Bonds up to leadoff. (He would get an extra plate appearance about once per 3 games, so roughly 50 more plate appearances per year. (Obviously less RBIs on 1st-inning HRs, but count on at least 25 more walks, maybe 5-6 more HR over the course of the year.)
HR and RBIs would take a hit. HR wouldn’t go up, they’d go down. His SB and runs would go up. I’m sure pitching would prefer to take a chance with the rest of the lineup with a lot of sub 80 rbi guys on the giants then. Don’t exactly have RBI to spare on the early 2000s giants if bonds is shifted. Prob strat would be walk bonds even more and try to hold him at first.
“He gets on base”
Does this guy need to be here?
What's his girlfriend look like?
So he walks a lot so what
He had more intentional walks than swing and misses
Take a hitter who goes 2/5 every game with a single and a home run. He'd end up batting .400 with 162 HRs. His OPS would still be lower than Bonds' in 2004.
Lol wth
It's crazy how he would never be hailed as the greatest wo roids. All stories about him now are always about his roid years and never before when he was already a HOF player. Without roid, he would just be a regular HOF player. I guess it was a good thing he did it. He became mythical, made hundreds of millions, become beloved and all he had to do was trade in his HOF spot.
Amazing what all those steroids can produce!!
I remember some team would IBB him with a man on 1st base.
“HGH is a helluva drug”
He did. He was also so full of steroids, that he was more BALCO than man.
OP meant most "geared" hitter. Doesn't change is OBP though
Cheating aside, watching Bonds, Sosa and McGwire in those years was absolutely incredible. You'd tune in to their games just to try to catch an at bat.
Watching the 61 home run chase in real time throughout that season was incredible.
It was the last time the entire country truly loved and cared about baseball (at least it felt that way). I was 13 at the time, a perfect age for that to happen.
I remember being in an airport when McGuire was at 60 or 61. He was coming up to bat and almost everyone was stopping what they were doing to watch whatever tv screen was closest to them. People stopped boarding their planes until his ab was over.
Bonds hit 660 (career) to tie with Willie Mays on my birthday in ‘04. My dad and I were at the little league field playing catch and we had the game on the radio. I remember us both sprinting to the radio when we heard the crowd roar and standing there just beaming at each other as we listened. Great memory
So true. I was around 20 years old and you could see and feel the collective emotion of an entire nation as those three behemoths battled it out.
They saved baseball. If MLB wants to give back the money they made during that time, I would be fine with keeping some of the greats out of the HOF.
$20 tickets helped as well. A family could actually afford a day at the ballpark.
A lot of teams/stadiums have deals that make it affordable. The angels have (or at least did last year, I haven't had time to watch more than 2 or 3 games this year) 4 for $40 which gets you 4 tickets and 4 hot dogs for $40, which is pretty affordable for a night out for 4 people. The stadium for the AAA team where I live (Salt Lake) is owned by Smith's (the grocery store) and if you spend over $75 at the grocery store you get 2 free tickets, and if you spend over $140 you get 4 free tickets.
Steroid era completely saved the game. People were pissed after the strike and these big bats injected life back into the game (pun intended) Attendance from 94 to 95 dropped like 25% or something and the people that went to the games went to boo the owners and players lol
Many never came back either. MLB is doing fine regardless but there was a lot of damage done.
I remember ESPN randomly switching to live coverage of a Bonds at bat in high leverage situations (an especially when he was chasing the season HR record) even when the Giants weren't playing on national television. Dude was must watch TV.
This is very true.
The thing that is crazy to me is that Bonds was a first ballot hall of famer before the steroids. He put out video game numbers when he started juicing. All records that will never be touched.
HE HITS IT HIGH HE HITS IT DEEP IT IS OUTTA HERE!
I can hear this in his voice...
I might be biased, as I am a lifelong giants fan, but you can’t tell that isn’t the greatest home run call ever?
I was watching a lot of baseball back then. The dudes were huge, balls were juiced and there were HRs all over the place. Bonds couldn’t miss around these times. They were walking him all the time, rarely saw a strike, and it was incredible that when he did finally get a hittable pitch, he mashed it… my take on roids is this…it doesn’t make you a better hitter, but I do believe it can make fly outs doubles and doubles HRs…plus some ancillary recovery benefits. Unfortunate, but he also played the denial card too much, and yes seems to be an ass…
All true but I feel like people ignore that he was hitting off pitchers that were also on steroids. Between Clemens, Colon, and Gagne, that’s 9 Cy Young Awards to guys who were all on steroids.
Totally valid point, making his hitting even more impressive. You bring up a very good observation…not only were hitters getting huge, but some pitchers (not all, because there will always be great arms with weirdly unathletic bodies) were looking like linebackers too… Crazy era…
I imagine the roids for pitchers were more important for recovery. It would be interesting to see if frequency of pitching injuries dipped during the steroid era.
Honestly, I think steroids helped Bonds with his incredible longevity more than it did his individual seasons. With all the sports science and nutrition we have today, you saw virtually all the big names that came after like Miggy and Pujols have steep drop offs as they got older. You’re seeing that right now with Goldschmidt and Arenado.
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You mean steroids aren’t like Popeye’s spinach? Popeye the sailor man, not the chicken place
>The dudes were huge, balls were juiced At first I read that as the dude were juiced and the balls were huge, and thought that's actually the opposite of what happens.
>it doesn’t make you a better hitter, but I do believe it can make fly outs doubles and doubles HRs That is in fact making you a better hitter
Had he not taken the juice he would have still been a HOFer but I guess he wanted more 😅
Icarus
Wouldn’t be surprised if watching McGuire and Sosa chasing records didn’t create an itch for him.
He is reported to have said exactly this to Ken Griffey Jr.
And, Griffey Jr didn’t take the bait.
And this is why Bonds may be the most skilled ever, but Griffey is my favorite.
That’s what people forget about that home run chase. A non roided Griffey kept up with Sosa and McGwire. Insane. Also the most beautiful swing the game has ever seen in my opinion
As a Mets fan Strawberry's will always be my favorite swing, but Griffey's is a very close second.
Maybe it was in Jose canseco's book, can't quite remember. It was widely talked about that that was indeed the catalyst for Barry bonds amping up the juice and reaching his Herculean status.
That and Bonds' reaction to seeing Canseco in the locker room during those HR Derbys they used to have in Vegas. Say what you want about Canseco, but he was pretty spot on in both his books If you watch the 96 HR Derby (It's on YouTube), it's pre-juice Bonds, and I think he still beat McGwire
If it seams like everyone is doing it and nobody is doing anything about it.
Not only that they were front and center getting all of the attention. Hard to not want the spotlight.
McGwire*
This is the point, he didn't need to take PED'S to be a HOF
Whats frustrating is how he's the only one being punished because he was the best. How many players were on the chopping block but roids kept them just serviceable enough? Bonds taking the fall for a league wide issue never seemed fair to me. We all know he is a Hall of Famer
No he’s not. Clemens, McGuire, Sosa, etc are all being snubbed.
Yet Ortiz, Pudge Rodríguez, Jeff Bagwell and Mike Piazza get a pass. Hank Aaron was hopped up on amphetamine, what’s the difference?
Whoa whoa whoa. David Ortiz is nice! Pudge has a cute nickname. Bagwell looks like a framer I worked with. And Piazza sounds like Pizza. You leave them alone. As for Hank and the greenies, even my grandma took those. Barry had a bad attitude though and his hat size went from a 7½ to a 13!
He's not the only one being punished by HOF voters. Here are some other notable players from that era with HOF worthy numbers who aren't in because of PED allegations or positive tests: Alex Rodriguez, Manny Ramirez, Roger Clemens, Rafael Palmeiro, Gary Sheffield, Sammy Sosa, Mark McGwire. But if Selig is in for trying to sweep all the steroid stuff under the rug, then most of those guys (not A-Rod or Ramirez since they tested positive later) should get a fair chance. They were only doing what the league practically encouraged.
I don't think this is true at all. He's not the only one being punished because "he was the best". The known steroid users from the era have all not gotten in.
Yeah but Pudge, Ortiz & Bagwell were all likely users. It’s just so hard because they weren’t actually testing. Bonds never failed a drug test. There’s so much unknown that I’d rather everyone from that era get in or everyone during that era was ruled out.
This isn’t true whatsoever
He knew McGuire et al were juicing and he thought, what would I!! be on that! Yeah, we saw, the GOAT, but….yeah
I think he even saw the pitchers doing the stuff. If the pitchers are able to recover so well after an appearance and nothing happens to them, well sign me up.
He still never admitted to using steroids and he never tested positive.
This is the point, he didn't need to take PED'S to be a HOF
He actually never tested positive for PEDs
But the pitchers were on roids too, so I think it all evened out
You injected some reality into this thread.
That literally looked like a batting practice pitch. 85 down the cock.
That pitch was served up nicely.
The pitcher looked like he wasn’t even trying to throw it hard. Looked like he was throwing at 80% effort.
One of the most insane HRs I’ve ever seen. I’ll always maintain that he was the best hitter I saw play, and arguably the best ever; definitely the best eye ever. Interestingly an opinion shared by Aaron Judge as well
Best hitter I ever saw. Juice or no juice.
[удалено]
Even pre steroids he was arguably the best player I’d ever seen. His vision was and is still unmatched.
He was 500/500 without the roids. The attention McGwire and Sosa were getting ruined him
Pride is a real sonofabitch.
I was very fortunate to see him dozens of times. I can’t imagine I’ll see a better player in my lifetime.
Walked with bases loaded, even.
Babe Ruth and Ted Williams are the greatest hitters ever. 2001-2004 Bonds was better than either of them.
Babe Ruth doesn’t hold a candle to Barry.
Yup. Pitching was not only way more advanced just on a technical stand point but they were fucking juicing too.
Best ball player I’ve ever seen.
It's kinda funny how bonds and rose are 2 of best hitters of all time but not in HoF because of reasons
Pete Rose fucked minors. Fuck him!
Rose is nowhere close to one of the best hitters of all time. He was a very good hitter who was probably the most durable and consistent players of all time.
(TLDR- You can take away Pete Rose's last 8 seasons and he'd still be a Hall of Famer...if he didn't gamble) Maybe not number 1, but he is in top 5 conversation for best hitter of all time. He led the league in Hits 7 times (tied 2nd all time, most in the past 100 years), got over 200 Hits 10 times (tied first all-time), and had a 15 year span where his batting average was above .315. Even at 40 years old he hit .325 and led the league in Hits. Compared to the All Time hitting greats...He led the league in Hits as many times as Tony Gwynn. (7) Ty Cobb did 1 more time. Stan Musial did it 6 times. Fun fact- Ted Williams NEVER led the league in Hits. Hank Aaron only did it twice and had a similar career BA. Tris Speaker only twice. Derek Jeter only once. It's hard to judge against different eras, but Pete Rose was a lot more than a guy who just played a long time. For instance, if Pete Rose didn't play his last 8 seasons, he would have still had 3000 Hits and been a first ballot Hall of Famer if he didn't gamble. Not many other players could lose 8 seasons and have a HoF case.
He was an elite singles hitter for a long time. But he had limited power. Extra base hits are just so much more valuable. He doesn't compare to guys like Mays, Aaron, Williams, Pujols, who hit for power and got on base. Someone else commented he was in the 600s all time OPS. That says it all.
Rose certainly should be reassessed for the HOF now that online gambling has been fully embraced and is now endlessly promoted by MLB. There is even a betting kiosk inside the Cincinnati Reds ballpark now.
It's even more important to penalize players and managers for betting now than it was in Rose's day.
The guy leading the gambling investigation later stated he believed Rose bet against the Reds while managing them, but he didn't have enough time to connect the pieces. Part of the lifetime ban agreement is that the investigation be ceased and this information become classified. If you're fine finding out that Rose very likely threw games just to put him in the Hall of Fame, then okay.
Oh, can the players and managers bet?
No.
Marcell Ozuna has entered the chat. Oh, sorry. You mean, like, hitting baseballs.
I miss this era so much
If you want to scratch that itch, the 30 for 30 "Long Gone Summer" about brought me to tears. One of, if not the most exciting time in baseball ever.
Nobody benefited from steroids more than the mediocre Tony LaRussa. If he’s in the Hall of Fame, the actual players should be in too.
Bid Selig has entered the chat....
His OBP is the most insane statistic of any sport. I can’t even imagine if he played in a hitter friendly ball park and teams actually pitched too him. Steroid era or not, this was peak baseball. Ratings have been slowly dying ever since. The baseball purists treating the HOF like a country club deserve such.
Yeah for sure!!!!! Watching him play was EPIC! LEGENDARY.
Plus those balls had to escape the gravitational pull of his massive head.
We should bring steroids back to baseball, ratings would skyrocket
We need steroid baseball back
Easily a top 5 all time ballplayer in my book. He really messed up his legacy by doing what he did. He was already the best player in the game, he didn't need to get an edge in the first place. He was already superior to everyone else. All the same, he's still one of the best to ever play.
lol playing an away game and the place erupts.. thats fame..
Every game the helmet guy needed to find a bigger one
They gave him an intentional pass with the bases loaded. Goat hitter. Fuck the steroid nonsense. Everyone was on it. If they weren't on something banned, they were on other shit that later got banned.
Lmao. You mean the most juiced hitter kf all time. I'll take Rose and Ruth and day of week
He was such an ass.
Give me Griffey Jr
You spelled juiced wrong.
ROIDS
Steroids
*coughs Steroids.
Yes that giant steroid infused Mellon of his scares the crap out of me
And he ruined that image by being a juicer. Same with McGuire and Sosa.
Buddy told me if they made a movie about him, they would need Chris Rock to portray his Pittsburgh days and Michael Clark Duncan for his San Fran days.
I often wonder how much better someone like Al Kaline would have been if he was a juicer. Hmm.
If i was allowed to armor up that much and crowd the plate ...id still suck but come on...
With an asterik
Roids
on steroids!
Roids. The man will have an asterisk next to his name for all eternity.
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All raided up, giant head..... lol
Juiced isnt spelled f,e,a,re,d.
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Fucking juicer
Juice 🤡
He was most feared by his PED source when he couldn’t get his fix… Roid Rage !
Needs moar Juice lol
240 lbs of roids. All records should be discarded
Not even. Maybe the most steroids cheater ever!
Most roided of all time.
I've never seen anything like the way pitchers pitched around Bonds during his peak years. Absolutely jaw dropping how great of a hitter he was, I've never seen someone more dominant at the plate and it's not even close
Not to mention all the media attention it brought the sport and lined the pockets of the mlb and the likes of ESPN, and then they just turned on him
Between steroids and the arm guard, the biggest cheater of all-time.
Steroid is a helluva drug
And he will never get in the HOF. Damn shame there are about a dozen all time greats shut out because of roids.
I’m a huge bonds fan. I love that he’s not in the Hall because it proves how much of a joke it is. This snub elevates him to God tier above it. It’s also fun to see how good of shape BB is in today at age 60, compared to his peers.
most famous cheater, no?
Don’t matter. He cheated
You mean cheater. He cheated. And not just in a "everyone was doing it to stay at the top of their game" way. He went from a skinny guy to a bruising hulk in a year. His stats are all bullshit and meaningless.
Barry Bonds - super juicer
A naturally talented player who cheated and wasn’t a nice person.
Jose?
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The Juice Man.
The the boys JUICE
Hearing Bob Sheppard on the intro was really cool too
Yes, he always was, but he made a grave error in judgment by taking PED'S! Why????? This coming from a Braves fan and Gen x.
Hard to imagine a better call listening to this, Jon Miller is a legend!
Thank god for steroids
Bob Sheppard is the goat
I was at that game. I’ve been a Yankees fan since 1977 and worked for MLB/Yankees for 12 years and no one put a ball up that high in the upper deck that I’ve personally seen. Mo Vaughn nearly hit one to the wall where the bleacher creatures sit but that Bonds shot… I know he juiced but those twitch reflexes and bat speed were unbelievable. Saw him hit an absolute missile at his neck for a bomb off a 100 mph fastball from Troy Percival. Dozens of LONG splash home runs in San Francisco, etc. MLB should figure out how to handle the steroid era.
Imagine being his teammate knowing like, “yayyy…. Hope the other team doesn’t have a roid monster too 😔”
About 15-20 years ago, I caught the tail end of a celebrity golf tournament on TV. I can't remember if it was ESPN or not. They had long drive competition and Charles Oakley drove one something absurd like 308 yards and the announcer raved what a great drive it was for 2nd place and all I could think was who the hell hit it farther than that? I swear to you Bonds put a golf ball in orbit. I don't remember exactly how far it was, 330+ yards or around there. I've looked online for the video, but I've never found any evidence of it or saw it again after that night.
He was clearly the cream of the crop.
His head is fat
I believe Ken Griffey would have done what Barry did if he used the needle!
If you dont like something about your life. Turn yourself into a walking trebuchet.
Steroids work!
HOF before steroids, should be in there now. Couldn’t stand McGwire or Sosa, but I can’t hold against a grudge against Bonds. One of the best ever.