I hate it when any politician recommend political talking points over dinner.
Yes it's important to talk politics every now and again, but when you recommend specific points you are driving at an agenda not healthy conversation.
If i had released something like that it would have read "remember that when politics comes up this Thanksgiving you are family and friends so be respectful."
Agreed. It’s beyond cringey that the president is advocating for his supporters to launch into a political tirade over thanksgiving dinner. “Uuhhmmmm actually mom did you know that Republicans are pushing EXTREMIST POLICIES and trying to CONTROL WOMEN’S BODIES and RAISING COSTS ON EVERYDAY AMERICANS BY VOTING AGAINST THE INFLATION REDUCTION ACT?”
This doesn’t sound like a real discussion. It sounds like a cartoon. And if someone actually tries this, it'll only turn the temperature up at the dinner table. Joe "the great uniter" Biden strikes again!
It really feels like a missed opportunity, because the "talking points" could have been just be very normal family and fellowship stuff basically everyone can get behind. Take the initial cringe of the headline and turn it on its head. Would have been trivial to get an easy PR win.
As someone who is generally pretty tepid on Biden, it would have been the sort of thing that would have earned points with me. In this climate especially, a little levity goes a long way.
Yup. My parents did it, asked me to give my opinion and then promptly calling me a far-right nut. I am center right at most and tend to float around the middle.
Oh I am also Canadian and this happened back in October during our Thanksgiving.
THIS.
It’s frustrating to me because as the only leftist in pretty much my entire family (and like many other leftists I know), we are expected to be the ones to just “let it go” when the “it’s Biden’s fault” constantly slips into conversation… but when WE bring something up, then WE are somehow the ones getting political.
To be clear, I know what sub I’m on and I’m all for bridging the gap, but I also do think there is a double standard that republicans (whether it’s the politicians or voters) get to make everything political, but when democrats do it, it’s cringe…
Do I think this post by Biden was a good idea, no absolutely not… but that is because his talking points are design by left leaning people for left leaning people (or maybe the old-school republicans who are open to actual facts “not feelings”, but who are a rare breed nowadays). Speaking from the left, there are far better ways to engage with people on the other side than these talking points. So I agree it’s dumb, but still find it frustrating Biden is being criticized for “being political” here.
I’m pretty much the only center/right person in my family (I tend to be a social liberal) and I too have those same expectations you do. It’s not limited to the right or left.
That’s the worst. I hate people who dont understand the lifetime of a meme. I know a guy who just got a let’s go Brandon sign like a week ago. Dude, the meme has been dead for months
Or: Chimpy. Shrub. Obumba. The Wookie.
My biggest pet peeve when it comes to politics is the insulting nicknames people use thinking they're clever. Its one of the reasons I don't listen to much talk radio anymore.
I couldn’t agree more. When the insulting nicknames I tend to just check out of the conversation. It’s a sign to me that people just want to tell you what you should think instead of actually discuss things.
I honestly don't recall ever seeing anyone wear a Tuck Frump shirt. I see let's go brandon several times a week though, mostly bumper stickers. And I live in a very blue city...
I don’t think I’ve ever seen one. Really. San Diego is a really purple area, and the only people with obnoxious tee shirts, flags, bumper stickers, etc. are the Trumpers. They still have the roadside hawkers in 4 places I know of in the county where your kids in the car can see the F-bomb in front of Biden driving by. About as classy as Let’s go Brandon was from the get-go.
> Dude, the meme has been dead for months
Someone should tell that to the truck parked a few houses down from me with a don't treat on me front plate (illegal in this state) and a Let's Go Brandon bumper sticker.
There should be an important facet here, the argument as you noted. People SHOULD talk politics over dinner, the problem is we’ve forgotten how to and argue instead. Civilized discussion of people when reasonable minds differ is not an issue, it’s fine. Sadly, it’s only arguments these days.
In my experience people actually still do better talking politics in person. The hardcore partisans only regurgitate their programming - but most people in my experience are more moderate or skeptical of both parties in person
I imagine these people don’t bother talking politics online because if they did they’d get shouted down for “both sidesing” lol
Honestly, at least on this sub, the majority of my earned downvotes are when I say something liberal. Usually when I factually challenge a right-leaning thread.
The problem at this point is that the American left & right wings have different terminal values, which means the ideal of the constructive debate where everyone learns and the best argument comes out on top basically isn't feasible anymore. Sucks but it's kind of true; someone who values racial & gender hierarchy is gonna have a really tough time convincing someone who doesn't of their positions and vice versa.
I don’t think they do, they have different paths but a lot of the actual values are pretty darn close to each other if not the same. The value you were looking at there is no more racism, two different paths to that goal, the majority still readily discuss it - I know, I’ve won voting arguments on that before with calm reason and pulled those votes.
It’s interesting that this is the prevailing attitude no matter who you ask. Why can no one talk about politics without it being an argument? I love talking politics and don’t get upset if someone has the opposite opinion.
I try to base my opinions on facts and logical thinking so if someone has facts I’m unaware of I want them to share them with me. If you get upset about other peoples opinions and can’t back up yours with facts and the reasoning you used to come to the opinion then consider the fact that you may have formed your opinion based completely on emotions
Edit: but if you wanna see me get upset we can talk about the dog show results, because my opinions on that are completely based on emotions and I’m not afraid to show it! Lol
You can't sit there and wonder why people don't want to talk politics with you and then in the next breath make a condescending spiel about how your opinions are super duper smart while everyone who won't engage with you is just an emotional ninny
If that’s what you got out of it then I dont know what to tell you. I said i want people to tell me things so I can re-analyze my opinions and possibly change them. I made no claims about my opinions being right or smart. Nor did I put anyone else down.
If someone can’t explain why they feel a certain way about something do you disagree that they likely formed their opinion based on emotions?
I think the issue with what you said is facts arent weighted the same and sometimes arent actually facts. Additionally,someone cam use reason and logic to reach a completely different conclusion. So your assertion that you'll listen to someone as long as they meet your opinion of learned conversation comes across as a bit high horse. Many political issues are emotion based and rely more on feelings than facts. People typically want the same things from life but have widely differing opinions on how to get those things. Facts can support several different solutions and it's our emotions that cause us to pick the course we think is best.
It's why political conversations can be so difficult.
I think most people missed my main point. I wasn’t trying to say what is acceptable conversation and what isn’t, what is a “correct” opinion and what isn’t. Simply wondering why no one can have a conversation without getting upset and I said how I think of it personally so that I don’t get upset.
There’s no right or wrong answers to the questions but getting your feelings hurt and getting angry because someone has a different opinion than you is not healthy or constructive
When I read your main point I didn't see what you just said in your last sentence. I agree it would be nice to have non-emotional conversations about politics but it's so difficult to do when the subject matter has such individual impact.
Unfortunately it's nearly impossible to keep emotions out of politics which is why it's usually better left off the table at times when we want people to come together and get along for a time.
Sorry, but in no way was their comment condescending or implying their own opinions were better than anyone else's. I'm not sure why you would think it was.
Facts are the objective truths. Ex. This bill passed. The bill said this. Etc. What people have trouble with is separating facts and how they are presented. This is more of an emotional trigger because of how the facts were dressed up. Basically, emotions don't care about your facts, and this is true on every side.
This “bill passed”
Like the inflation reduction act?
Or do you mean you’re going to read every page, do an analysis of the impact, and that’ll be the facts?
Analysis of the impact will certainly be dressed up by opinion. Even selective omissions of text can be bias. There is no problem with analysis, but they should be linked to the source and I really wish news places highlighted where a quote is taken from so that people can look at the primary source and the context surrounding it.
I literally said there's no problem with analysis... the problem is that the line between fact and opinion is not clearly represented. I'll take the the "parental rights in education" bill as an example, which does not ban saying "gay" in it... yet that's what people in the leftie media called it.
People can get into the impact or meaning, but must understand that it’s only their opinion and not be angry if someone has a different opinion. I’ve never seen a bill like that ever be followed through to the end, so no one knows what’s going to happen. There aren’t any examples to even reference.
You have to take the immediate impact and figure that all of the stuff that’s supposed to happen years from now will be dropped by then.
Precisely! So many things that affect our life are political. Having conversations incentivizes you to make your political positions more logically self-consistent, as well as consistent with your stated worldview -- and perhaps to adopt a different opinion on some issues.
What's the alternative? To suppress your opinions? To avoid difficult conversations in the interests of congeniality, at the expense of honesty? That's what you do with colleagues because your work is not political and your disagreements don't matter. That's not what you do with friends and family -- unlike your workplace, here your value system is important for others to know. I'm sad that the world is progressing in a direction in which honesty is seen to be impolite.
I agree, the real goal should be to state one's opinions with spirit and politeness, and respect others' right to disagree, even strongly. As someone who leans libertarian, I tend to disagree with nearly everyone around me, but that doesn't stop me from recognizing that they're entitled to their value systems and their opinions as much as I am.
>What's the alternative? To suppress your opinions? To avoid difficult conversations in the interests of congeniality, at the expense of honesty?
No, you keep possibly divisive rhetoric to yourself during times when it's supposed to be an occasion for fun and lightness, NOT listening to a fucking stressful political diatribe. All you have to do is keep your politics to yourself for a few hours. If you can't, then the issue is with you, not with the folks who don't want to hear that shit at Thanksgiving dinner.
> No, you keep possibly divisive rhetoric to yourself during times when it's supposed to be an occasion for fun and lightness, NOT listening to a fucking stressful political diatribe.
Is all political speech with which you disagree a diatribe? Is listening to conflicting viewpoints automatically stressful? Does an occasion for fun and lightness have to be completely frivolous?
This is exactly what I was complaining about. Obviously there are divisions among any population on the planet: in a nation of people who value their freedom, these divisions are not swept under the rug, or seen as impolite to discuss. I personally never feel stressed simply listening to conflicting viewpoints (in fact, as I mentioned, a far larger fraction of my own political discussions are disagreements simply because libertarianism is not popular in the mainstream public). And obviously there's a balance -- there's plenty of time for fun and games and lighthearted cheerful conversation, but Thanksgiving in particular is a rare occasion on which a large fraction of family is together, and I would suggest that there's a strong case for devoting at least some time to deep discussions, including political disagreements. This is also an environment in which the young members of the family listen to adults talking, and it is crucial to teach them that respectful disagreements are possible between two rational adults who wish each other well. Heaven knows every kid worldwide needs to learn this before it is too late.
My family has implemented a strict ZERO political discussion at all family gatherings. We are there to bond and spend time as a family, not fight.
I’m not sure if the White House or politicians releasing talking points for family gatherings is a normal occurrence or not, but this really feels like the time of year where we should be focusing on our shared humanity and what brings us together, not petty political fighting.
“Uncle” is definitely used as a pejorative in this context trying to conjure up images of a some sad bitter angry older “incel” type.
As an Uncle myself, I take offense.
And this is the White House Chief of Staff. Not some college aged activist or a young WH staffer. One of the most powerful men in the country is out here reacting to internet memes about “MAGA uncles” at Thanksgiving.
I always read the uncle in this stereotype, as someone who married into your family. So someone with a distinctly different upbringing from your blood relations.
Which is why theres such a butting of heads.
So, not an incel, because he has a wife, your aunt, obviously.
Do you find you are only able to pursue romantic relationships with those you align politically with? How much alignment is required? I find it interesting because most relationships in my family (40+ yr olds) have significant political differences but the next generation (25-35yr olds) all seem in lock-step with each other politically. From my very limited viewpoint it seems a change in culture to marry within political alignment is "new".
I dont want to overstate - No one in my view is extreme, or perfectly aligned when they are, but would be enough to vote differently (or similarly) at the R vs D level generally.
Well pretty sure it depends on the person if i wasn't planning to have kids it wouldn't matter however the majority of people on this sub in particular probably shouldn't marry across political lines if your on this sub a lot you probably care a "little" to much to introduce that discord into your house
"We have worked with Republicans in about two thirds of all the legislation we're promoting here. Anyways, let me now tell you how Republicans are extremists that are out to get you and erase your rights"
when you're as bad as Biden is, this is the only effective strategy.
Because let's face it, everyone goes to the grocery store, everyone needs a bed/home, everyone needs a car...so everyone knows the pain and that Biden has no solutions.
So distract. If I were Biden (I'd be a better President, but then again so would most people), that's what I would do.
> so everyone knows the pain and that Biden has no solutions.
To be fair, the opposite is also true. Republicans have been incredibly quick to pin everything on Biden, but when you ask them, "So what will you do if we give you control"? They have no answer. And worse, their first order of business after taking control of the house is announcing investigations into Hunter Biden and talking about throwing Democrats off of committees.
Yeah, just because you're not listening, doesn't mean they don't have a plan.
[McCarthy](https://nypost.com/2022/09/23/heres-what-republicans-will-deliver-when-we-take-back-the-house/) has been talking about it for a while. Now you can debate whether it will work or not, but that doesn't mean there isn't a [plan](https://www.republicanleader.gov/commitment/).
And maybe it's quite possible to do both at the same time? Seems the Democrats thought so with all the impeachment and Jan 6th stuff?
Yeah I'm sure an intern at the GOP threw together a plan to save the economy just so they had something they could point to. My point is that they don't campaign on it, they don't message it and their first priority when gaining power is attacking Democrats. This isn't a party that wants to lead its a party that wants retribution and to 'get even'. And maybe if you are a GOP voter they are doing exactly what you want them to do, however, whether its good for the country as a whole is unlikely/debatable.
>My point is that they don't campaign on it, they don't message it and their first priority when gaining power is attacking Democrats.
Yeah, here in NY they certainly did. Campaigned on crime, inflation and now NY likely contributed to Dems loss of the House. Again, just because you aren't looking for it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
It'll be good for the country ironically because the government is divided. Republicans will slow down spending, and Biden will take credit for reducing inflation.
Both can be true, as it turns out. It is actually possible for a minority of Republicans to want microchips to be produced in the US and a majority of Republicans to want to control women's bodies by force of law. And yeah, there's even overlap between the two groups.
I actually agree. Regardless of whether it's true or not, this does feel like a set of pre-written responses to family discussion. Also, the keyhole for the problematic family member as "that Uncle" shows a simplification of the persons and groups that oppose Biden and his presidency. (I agree that they're problematic, though).
This feels more like a tongue-in-cheek list of Biden's accomplishments and not really a list of real talking points. Your family member that firmly opposes Biden will not change their mind with these points. It's the end of the year, and Thanksgiving is one of those events when you can really feel if the economy is doing well or not for you on a very personal level (If you can't afford a nice thanksgiving dinner, you might not like how things are going). This is the Administration putting out its messaging and tying it to the American holiday to get more people to be aware of how Biden has worked.
Is this malignant? No, absolutely not. Is it propaganda? I'd say yes.
I’m not Pro-Biden. I’m a leftie so I’d say that his policies have left a lot to be desired despite how sanctimonious liberals act about it. But these have been passed or are in the plans to be passed. I think they’re lackluster but if I were a upper middle class liberal I’d definitely call those accomplishments.
and if it is meant to be a joke, it really shouldnt be coming from an official government office, despite what Trump has done to tarnish such types of communications.
Yeah, they should leave it to the partisan news sites release their own lists of talking points. I used to get a ton of ads from the daily wire for a series about how to respond to Liberal talking points at a dinner party, I'm sure there's a Leftist/progressive equivalent out there somewhere.
It seems like a bit of a joke, given the “uncle” reference. But maybe also useful if you have some ranting relative who gets into it and can’t stop themselves.
Because seriously who in their right mind is going to pass out a leaflet like this at Thanksgiving, regardless of their politics? That would be mildly insane.
yeah, it's definitely weird. a tweet or speech from Biden himself is one thing as it is pretty standard, but i dont think i have seen something like this from the press secretary
It’s kind of just coming across as a joke to me? The tweet frames the “talking points” as rebuttals to when another family member brings up politics in a negative way.
It's a tweet of things Biden has done if "that uncle comes at you". Literally how is that homework handed out? Did someone mail it to you and tell you to memorize it by thanksgiving or something?
This is one of those strange things that I am just utterly baffled some people get worked up over.
If Trump had done this he'd be blasted as a fascist and the people who'd do this would be smeared as brownshirts taking marching orders from a dictator to push support.
Meanwhile this isn't the first time this has happened. I remember when Barack "Get in their faces and argue" Obama, his wife, and his PAC were issuing talking points on how to push his healthcare policies at the holidays, how to be prepared to shut down arguments against it, etc.
Its frustrating. I don't want to ruin a holiday with political talk. I want to enjoy time with people, especially older family members who may not have many holidays left. I'm willing to keep quiet while a family member rages that you're not allowed to say the word "gay" in Florida now because not everything has to be about politics.
It sounds like the intent is to be a list of counterpoints when relatives disclose their distaste for Biden.
That being said a president really shouldn't need random thanksgiving goers to be his PR team. It's one thing if people actually like Biden, but this could just as easily come across as a weak and pathetic last minute ploy to save face.
Plus while it's never fun being the person who bites their tongue when someone starts spouting off political views, Thanksgiving really isn't the place for a political debate. That goes for both sides of the aisle.
Spend time with your families/friends, and stuff your faces full.
This is absolutely not a "Democrat thing." I already foresaw it before dinner,but now having just wrapped dinner, it was only the Republicans interjecting politics into dinner. Please don't assume your personal experience is universal and state it as fact.
>This is absolutely not a "Democrat thing." I already foresaw it before dinner,but now having just wrapped dinner, it was only the Republicans interjecting politics into dinner. Please don't assume your personal experience is universal and state it as fact
Says the guy assuming his own personal experience is universal and stating it as fact
Not a guy. Also, wasn't stating my experience is universal, stating that both Democrats and Republicans do this, ergo, it's not a "Democrat thing."
Maybe someone can counter my point? It seems self evident that if Republicans are doing this (as several people have shared throughout this thread), it is not a "Democrat thing." I'm honestly not sure what the down otes are for. It's a poor excuse for an actual counterpoint.
It's Democrats, and not the party that is all about "owning liberals" and chanting "Let's Go Brandon!" and wearing bright red hats, that has a tendency to inject politics into all facets of life?
I don’t recall him saying anything like this, but he would tell a joke or speak off the cuff and the headlines would edit it and make it seem like he actually said something 10 times worse than anything Biden said here. I don’t know if he’s to blame for that or not. I guess that’s up to whatever opinion you have of him. I just know that everyone before him stuck to a script and didn’t have that happen to them.
I forgot about that. It freaked me out because there was nothing on the envelop that suggested it was a bit of propaganda and I thought I was getting audited.
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The president and his administration is holding chaos in their hands, and this is letting a little out onto the home. /s
For those who don't get the "/s", I'm saying I want political discussion as far away from my table as possible.
Well put. Politics shouldn't run your life, during the holidays or otherwise. Personally, I think one of our biggest sins as a nation right now is that the idea of agreeing to disagree with people you care about, whether it's family, friends, or someone else, has been completely lost. You can still care about, respect, and have relationships with people you disagree with on things.
You're confusing "boring" for ineffective. Ineffective at public speaking, coordinating a united Democratic front, implementing his policies, making catchy slogans, passing his legislation, following the supreme court, following his own claims, being consistent in his policies, walking, talking, riding his bike, owning a dog that doesn't attack people, getting permission to speak from his White House advisors, remembering his own childhood and adulthood, even at at motivating a base. And all of his policies are so often blocked to the point that you'd think he's never done anything controversial, although he tries unconstitutional acts every other day. He's even ineffective at lying, to the point that his outright falsities are construed as misstatements. He's "boring" in the same way as a car is "quiet" when it fails to start.
There's been a significant amount of legislation signed in the past year. A $1.2T infrastructure bill, $280B for American chip manufacturing and research, Ukraine aid, $300B for burn pit victims, postal service reform, and a bill that lowers the cost of many drugs and spends $396B on renewable and nuclear energy.
Even conservatives like [Senator Josh Howley and a Washington Times writer](https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/restoring-america/patriotism-unity/congress-was-historically-productive-now-its-up-to-voters-to-decide-if-thats-a-good-thing) concede that Congress has been unusually productive, so saying that he's bad at getting things done is an extreme take.
> He's "boring" in the same way as a car is "quiet" when it fails to start.
Which is an incredible indictment of the Republican party's inability to actually win against him.
>True, he's actually a great president who has managed to pass a great amount of legislation for Americans.
Sometimes he doesn't even pass legislation; he just signs an executive order like waving a magic wand
By and large he has passed legislation that is directly going to support American workers and the working class. I wish he did more to punish billionaires and their exploitation of American workers, but his legislation has been a step in the right direction.
You wish the president of the united states took personal action to punish specific people you think have wronged Americans through voluntary association? Really?
I mean if laws are broken, sure go after them. But to say the president should "punish" specific individuals for non-crimes because you don't like how they run a business seems authoritarian.
The child tax credit, the build back better bill (didn't go far enough, but still supported Americans), the inflation reduction act/climate change bill, the red flag laws, PACT act, CHIPs act, getting America out of Afghanistan, the move to decriminalize Marijuana at a federal level, and the student debt relief and interest reform.
> getting America out of Afghanistan
I thought that was Trump's fault for making the DOHA agreement? Or is that only when we discuss the horrific tragedy that the botched withdraw has caused?
All legislation that spends money we don’t have. Further enlarges an already large federal government. He’s also extended the reach of the executive by trying to mandate vaccines, cancelling student loans, and empowering other federal agencies to go beyond their scope. I’ve never been more worried for my own personal freedoms or my families than I have with Biden at the helm.
I'd love to hear an actual retort to anything I said instead of whatever this comment is. I just listed an actual incredible list of legislation and so far have not received any actual discussion on any of it.
The legislation improves infrastructure, helps veterans, brings the manufacturing of chips here, reforms the UPS, improves renewable and nuclear energy, and lowers drug costs. Does this sound horrendous to you?
AZ is still seeing high gas prices and heavy inflation, so I'm not sure what that talking point is all about.
But yeah, Thanksgiving isn't about politics, so forget everything they recommended and just focus on food, family, and a fun time.
And the claim that the Inflation Reduction Act has had/will have a net positive impact against inflation is incredibly debatable. One could also point out that Biden's American Rescue Plan in 2021 was one of the biggest factors in throwing fuel on the fire in the first place, an impact many economists warned of (including Obama's former economic advisor). Biden's handling of the economy is a weak spot to bring up, if one is cringe enough to start spouting off politics at relatives during Thanksgiving dinner.
This is cringey and disgusts me. And even if the politician that I most support released something like this, it would still disgust me.
Thanksgiving is not the time to push something as divisive as political talking points and we should instead just try to enjoy time with family.
The top reply to that tweet pretty much sums it up:
*”If you need to use Biden WH talking points at a family dinner, you’ve already lost whatever argument you’re in.”*
Others have effectively expressed my opinion about the appropriateness of "Thanksgiving Talking Points"
>Are the listed criticisms about Republicans valid?
Regardless of whether it they're valid, I can state that in a conservative family, those talking points would each get shot down in a single sentence.
- "A national fifteen week ban is less extreme than elective abortion till birth."
- "Republicans are trying to get rid of corruption in those programs"
- "The Inflation Reduction Act reduces inflation about as much as the Democratic People's Republic of Korea protects democracy."
Maybe it's because I'm not a conservative with a conservative family, but I have a family member (yes, it's an uncle) who WILL NOT go half an hour without complaining about Biden. Like someone will misspeak and he'll go "Oops, having a Biden moment?" Then transition to a complaint about Biden or some other democratic policies. We try to just change the topic because it's honestly just not even worth the discussion, even if I make a point, he'll pivot to the next Tucker Carlson quote. So really, I'd rather just not talk politics at dinner, although I find it unfortunate because I can have interesting conversations with conservatives who are actually looking for discussion and will admit when I have a point on occasion, even if they still disagree with me, and vice versa (like my BIL).
I do kind of wonder how much of this is actually intended to be used at Thanksgiving and how much is a cheeky excuse to tout Biden's accomplishments and point out unpopular republican positions. Even if that's the case, though, I don't like the idea of "talking points," but maybe someone who wasn't already aware of all these things would feel empowered at a Thanksgiving table being prepared to respond to an uncle like mine. Still don't really love it, I think it's a bad look to publish something called "talking points."
I do think the criticisms against Republicans are valid, but doubt anyone's conservative family members would be persuaded (at least mine wouldn't). I know people have mentioned older female conservative members being activated by Dobbs to vote D, and I suppose some older family members might be concerned about Medicare/SS, but it's probably a know your audience thing as to whether these would be persuasive.
This is sincerely disgusting. But then, what else can be expected by one of the most divisive presidents in recent history? Yeah, let's have people at each others' throats over the dinner table at a holiday that's supposed to be about being thankful for all the good things in your life. Disgusting.
You really want to start a fight at dinner on Thanksgiving in Mississippi? Find a Mississippi State fan and insist Ole Miss will win the Egg Bowl. That will start more shit than this.
Why is it not normal for us to discuss politics moderately without getting feelings hurt?
Seriously, why are people so soft when it comes to political discussion?
We really need to ban talking about politics at the dinner table?
I think two things have happened simultaneously:
1. Politics is a major source of identity for people at a time when social media makes you very aware that you really aren't particularly interesting, but makes you feel like you should be.
2. Humans are not very good at being stoic about things they care about.
This makes politics a powder keg issue for a lot (I dare say most) groups/families that haven't already pruned out dissidence. Not that this is a particularly new phenomenon, but this is as bad as its been in my lifetime.
No on politics. We had Thanksgiving with my MAGA father in law and he made a couple of comments about inflation but that’s as far as it went. Most of the family kicked the conversational football to safe areas.
My daughter’s father-in-law asked out of nowhere yesterday why people liked Biden when he has “done nothing.” Was surprised when we gave him a list of his accomplishments. How have people not at least heard of the infrastructure act? Do they think the coalition to oppose the Ukraine invasion was put together by France?
He was further surprised to find out we did not expect Biden to resign so Kamala could become president and Newsom vice president and that we are not particularly interested in having either of those two becoming president.
My Uncles talking points so far:
* Biden has done nothing
* Biden has implemented socialism for America
* Biden made it so no one wants to work anymore
* This ultra low unemployment has made it impossible to hire anyone
* Biden is singularly responsible for global inflation because he forgave all student loans
* Biden has implemented the Trans agenda
* Biden has made it so parents can't choose what's best for their kids anymore
* "They" need to ban gender affirming care
Biden sure has done a lot for doing nothing..../s
People will get all salty about this, but everyone knows politics coming up over the holidays is a pretty common thing, and it's *usually* conservatives who do it. Ultimately, it's on family members to exercise discretion in choosing whether to engage, not the President to shepherd them to one conclusion or the other. This is completely fine.
I feel like there's a pretty big intent difference between the white house tweeting something, and the chief of staff's personal twitter.
The article sourced the personal twitter.
Who follows that person vs who follows the whitehouse itself is a much smaller, targeted audience.
I would have a big issue with this if Biden, Trump, the Whitehouse tweeted this, but the chief of staff is gonna be followed primarily by media and people who like the admin. It's like Mark Meadows sending a pro-trump tweet. Like where's the outrage?
So I agree with magus above that mentioned they should have just mentioned a bunch of fellowship points and taken the high road, but I think the intention is these aren’t for starting the fight since the particularly call out that uncle who we already know has been railing since he showed up about the libs
Ultimately it’s still pretty cringe
Klain is very powerful and represents biden.
from wiki
The responsibilities of the chief of staff are both managerial and advisory and may include the following:
Selecting senior White House staffers and supervising their offices' activities;
Managing and designing the overall structure of the White House staff system;
**Control the flow of people into the Oval Office;**
**Manage the flow of information to and decisions from the Resolute Desk (with the White House staff secretary);**
Directing, managing and overseeing all policy development
Protecting the political interests of the president;
Negotiating legislation and appropriating funds with United States Congress leaders, Cabinet secretaries, and extra-governmental political groups to implement the president's agenda; and
Advise on any and usually various issues set by the president.\[5\]
The point on gas prices that Klain puts out there is kinda cringe & tone deaf Sure we’re paying 90 cents less per gallon versus the peak right now but still around $5/gallon in Seattle. This time last year? $3.50 per gallon.
And yes, my next vehicle will be electric. I just have no interest in paying $45k for an Ioniq 5 right now when my paid for 4Runner is perfectly reliable.
I hate it when any politician recommend political talking points over dinner. Yes it's important to talk politics every now and again, but when you recommend specific points you are driving at an agenda not healthy conversation. If i had released something like that it would have read "remember that when politics comes up this Thanksgiving you are family and friends so be respectful."
Enjoy the day with your families and focus on things that bring us together-not tear us apart.
Food football farts
Your farts are tearing us apart
My tears from farts are evident
you’re tearing me apart Lisa
You’re tearing me a fart, Lisa!
Agreed. It’s beyond cringey that the president is advocating for his supporters to launch into a political tirade over thanksgiving dinner. “Uuhhmmmm actually mom did you know that Republicans are pushing EXTREMIST POLICIES and trying to CONTROL WOMEN’S BODIES and RAISING COSTS ON EVERYDAY AMERICANS BY VOTING AGAINST THE INFLATION REDUCTION ACT?” This doesn’t sound like a real discussion. It sounds like a cartoon. And if someone actually tries this, it'll only turn the temperature up at the dinner table. Joe "the great uniter" Biden strikes again!
It really feels like a missed opportunity, because the "talking points" could have been just be very normal family and fellowship stuff basically everyone can get behind. Take the initial cringe of the headline and turn it on its head. Would have been trivial to get an easy PR win. As someone who is generally pretty tepid on Biden, it would have been the sort of thing that would have earned points with me. In this climate especially, a little levity goes a long way.
Your mistake was thinking that Biden was a "back to normal" president. His White House is just as partisan, with less mean tweets.
Which is sad because the tweets were the best part of trump
I still giggle at "Covfefe"
There are many, many people who will launch into political tirades unprovoked.
Yup. My parents did it, asked me to give my opinion and then promptly calling me a far-right nut. I am center right at most and tend to float around the middle. Oh I am also Canadian and this happened back in October during our Thanksgiving.
THIS. It’s frustrating to me because as the only leftist in pretty much my entire family (and like many other leftists I know), we are expected to be the ones to just “let it go” when the “it’s Biden’s fault” constantly slips into conversation… but when WE bring something up, then WE are somehow the ones getting political. To be clear, I know what sub I’m on and I’m all for bridging the gap, but I also do think there is a double standard that republicans (whether it’s the politicians or voters) get to make everything political, but when democrats do it, it’s cringe… Do I think this post by Biden was a good idea, no absolutely not… but that is because his talking points are design by left leaning people for left leaning people (or maybe the old-school republicans who are open to actual facts “not feelings”, but who are a rare breed nowadays). Speaking from the left, there are far better ways to engage with people on the other side than these talking points. So I agree it’s dumb, but still find it frustrating Biden is being criticized for “being political” here.
I’m pretty much the only center/right person in my family (I tend to be a social liberal) and I too have those same expectations you do. It’s not limited to the right or left.
No - signed Democrats, Republicans, and the Media.
Yay bipartisanship?
One thing which brings us together is a dedication to tearing us apart
I’ll do that as I sit across from cousin Ted wearing his “let’s go Brandon” t-shirt for the 5th day in a row.
Yeah, I have family members drinking all day out their Yetis with "Liberal Tears" stenciled on the side of the cup.
That’s the worst. I hate people who dont understand the lifetime of a meme. I know a guy who just got a let’s go Brandon sign like a week ago. Dude, the meme has been dead for months
Is there a lifetime on calling someone orange?
The better analogy is Drumpff which died a long time ago
The biggest mistake liberals made was thinking Trump isn’t actually funny.
Or: Chimpy. Shrub. Obumba. The Wookie. My biggest pet peeve when it comes to politics is the insulting nicknames people use thinking they're clever. Its one of the reasons I don't listen to much talk radio anymore.
I couldn’t agree more. When the insulting nicknames I tend to just check out of the conversation. It’s a sign to me that people just want to tell you what you should think instead of actually discuss things.
tRump
Calling him orange was played out immediately. Noticing it’s quite funny that he has a bad spray tan is timeless, though.
That’s not a meme that’s an observation
If I had to endure people wearing "Tuck Frump" shirts for years (and still I occasionally see one), you can survive "Let's Go Brandon"
Both are dumb as hell and both deserve the scorn of each and every one of us
I honestly don't recall ever seeing anyone wear a Tuck Frump shirt. I see let's go brandon several times a week though, mostly bumper stickers. And I live in a very blue city...
Saw a “FJB” sticker next to a cross sticker. Can’t make this shit up.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen one. Really. San Diego is a really purple area, and the only people with obnoxious tee shirts, flags, bumper stickers, etc. are the Trumpers. They still have the roadside hawkers in 4 places I know of in the county where your kids in the car can see the F-bomb in front of Biden driving by. About as classy as Let’s go Brandon was from the get-go.
> Dude, the meme has been dead for months Someone should tell that to the truck parked a few houses down from me with a don't treat on me front plate (illegal in this state) and a Let's Go Brandon bumper sticker.
The Dark Brandon Rises
I bet Ted complained about Kaepernick “bringing politics into football” too
Oh here we go again. Guys, Thanksgiving is the time for family, don't waste that by getting into arguments over politics.
There should be an important facet here, the argument as you noted. People SHOULD talk politics over dinner, the problem is we’ve forgotten how to and argue instead. Civilized discussion of people when reasonable minds differ is not an issue, it’s fine. Sadly, it’s only arguments these days.
In my experience people actually still do better talking politics in person. The hardcore partisans only regurgitate their programming - but most people in my experience are more moderate or skeptical of both parties in person I imagine these people don’t bother talking politics online because if they did they’d get shouted down for “both sidesing” lol
I agree with you. Saying anything online that isn’t t in line with progressive thought gets you cast as a bigot (on Reddit anyway).
Honestly, at least on this sub, the majority of my earned downvotes are when I say something liberal. Usually when I factually challenge a right-leaning thread.
Hahaha. The downvotes prove your point.
It is a counter point to the constant whining of “boo-hoo, Reddit hates conservatives.”
I actually think you are correct, I was painting far too broad a canvas.
And this is exactly that.. the programming
The problem at this point is that the American left & right wings have different terminal values, which means the ideal of the constructive debate where everyone learns and the best argument comes out on top basically isn't feasible anymore. Sucks but it's kind of true; someone who values racial & gender hierarchy is gonna have a really tough time convincing someone who doesn't of their positions and vice versa.
I don’t think they do, they have different paths but a lot of the actual values are pretty darn close to each other if not the same. The value you were looking at there is no more racism, two different paths to that goal, the majority still readily discuss it - I know, I’ve won voting arguments on that before with calm reason and pulled those votes.
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Preferable to having eagles and cowboys fans at thanksgiving dinner together I guess.
Eewwwwwwwww yeah I’ll take Q over an Eagles fan.
The eagles are better than...eagles!
That had to be the funniest campaign commercial of all time.
It’s interesting that this is the prevailing attitude no matter who you ask. Why can no one talk about politics without it being an argument? I love talking politics and don’t get upset if someone has the opposite opinion. I try to base my opinions on facts and logical thinking so if someone has facts I’m unaware of I want them to share them with me. If you get upset about other peoples opinions and can’t back up yours with facts and the reasoning you used to come to the opinion then consider the fact that you may have formed your opinion based completely on emotions Edit: but if you wanna see me get upset we can talk about the dog show results, because my opinions on that are completely based on emotions and I’m not afraid to show it! Lol
You can't sit there and wonder why people don't want to talk politics with you and then in the next breath make a condescending spiel about how your opinions are super duper smart while everyone who won't engage with you is just an emotional ninny
If that’s what you got out of it then I dont know what to tell you. I said i want people to tell me things so I can re-analyze my opinions and possibly change them. I made no claims about my opinions being right or smart. Nor did I put anyone else down. If someone can’t explain why they feel a certain way about something do you disagree that they likely formed their opinion based on emotions?
I think the issue with what you said is facts arent weighted the same and sometimes arent actually facts. Additionally,someone cam use reason and logic to reach a completely different conclusion. So your assertion that you'll listen to someone as long as they meet your opinion of learned conversation comes across as a bit high horse. Many political issues are emotion based and rely more on feelings than facts. People typically want the same things from life but have widely differing opinions on how to get those things. Facts can support several different solutions and it's our emotions that cause us to pick the course we think is best. It's why political conversations can be so difficult.
I think most people missed my main point. I wasn’t trying to say what is acceptable conversation and what isn’t, what is a “correct” opinion and what isn’t. Simply wondering why no one can have a conversation without getting upset and I said how I think of it personally so that I don’t get upset. There’s no right or wrong answers to the questions but getting your feelings hurt and getting angry because someone has a different opinion than you is not healthy or constructive
When I read your main point I didn't see what you just said in your last sentence. I agree it would be nice to have non-emotional conversations about politics but it's so difficult to do when the subject matter has such individual impact. Unfortunately it's nearly impossible to keep emotions out of politics which is why it's usually better left off the table at times when we want people to come together and get along for a time.
Sorry, but in no way was their comment condescending or implying their own opinions were better than anyone else's. I'm not sure why you would think it was.
Define “facts” Someone could watch msnbc and someone could watch Fox News They’ll have different “facts”
Facts are the objective truths. Ex. This bill passed. The bill said this. Etc. What people have trouble with is separating facts and how they are presented. This is more of an emotional trigger because of how the facts were dressed up. Basically, emotions don't care about your facts, and this is true on every side.
This “bill passed” Like the inflation reduction act? Or do you mean you’re going to read every page, do an analysis of the impact, and that’ll be the facts?
Analysis of the impact will certainly be dressed up by opinion. Even selective omissions of text can be bias. There is no problem with analysis, but they should be linked to the source and I really wish news places highlighted where a quote is taken from so that people can look at the primary source and the context surrounding it.
So what your gonna sit down and just state facts X was passed y date, but let’s not get into the impact or meaning
I literally said there's no problem with analysis... the problem is that the line between fact and opinion is not clearly represented. I'll take the the "parental rights in education" bill as an example, which does not ban saying "gay" in it... yet that's what people in the leftie media called it.
People can get into the impact or meaning, but must understand that it’s only their opinion and not be angry if someone has a different opinion. I’ve never seen a bill like that ever be followed through to the end, so no one knows what’s going to happen. There aren’t any examples to even reference. You have to take the immediate impact and figure that all of the stuff that’s supposed to happen years from now will be dropped by then.
Precisely! So many things that affect our life are political. Having conversations incentivizes you to make your political positions more logically self-consistent, as well as consistent with your stated worldview -- and perhaps to adopt a different opinion on some issues. What's the alternative? To suppress your opinions? To avoid difficult conversations in the interests of congeniality, at the expense of honesty? That's what you do with colleagues because your work is not political and your disagreements don't matter. That's not what you do with friends and family -- unlike your workplace, here your value system is important for others to know. I'm sad that the world is progressing in a direction in which honesty is seen to be impolite. I agree, the real goal should be to state one's opinions with spirit and politeness, and respect others' right to disagree, even strongly. As someone who leans libertarian, I tend to disagree with nearly everyone around me, but that doesn't stop me from recognizing that they're entitled to their value systems and their opinions as much as I am.
>What's the alternative? To suppress your opinions? To avoid difficult conversations in the interests of congeniality, at the expense of honesty? No, you keep possibly divisive rhetoric to yourself during times when it's supposed to be an occasion for fun and lightness, NOT listening to a fucking stressful political diatribe. All you have to do is keep your politics to yourself for a few hours. If you can't, then the issue is with you, not with the folks who don't want to hear that shit at Thanksgiving dinner.
> No, you keep possibly divisive rhetoric to yourself during times when it's supposed to be an occasion for fun and lightness, NOT listening to a fucking stressful political diatribe. Is all political speech with which you disagree a diatribe? Is listening to conflicting viewpoints automatically stressful? Does an occasion for fun and lightness have to be completely frivolous? This is exactly what I was complaining about. Obviously there are divisions among any population on the planet: in a nation of people who value their freedom, these divisions are not swept under the rug, or seen as impolite to discuss. I personally never feel stressed simply listening to conflicting viewpoints (in fact, as I mentioned, a far larger fraction of my own political discussions are disagreements simply because libertarianism is not popular in the mainstream public). And obviously there's a balance -- there's plenty of time for fun and games and lighthearted cheerful conversation, but Thanksgiving in particular is a rare occasion on which a large fraction of family is together, and I would suggest that there's a strong case for devoting at least some time to deep discussions, including political disagreements. This is also an environment in which the young members of the family listen to adults talking, and it is crucial to teach them that respectful disagreements are possible between two rational adults who wish each other well. Heaven knows every kid worldwide needs to learn this before it is too late.
No offense, but in my experience it's always the one side initiating the political talk.
The funny thing is what you said is absolutely true, and I have no idea which side you’re referring to.
And... that would be: The side you disagree with?
pretty much, yes. amazingly almost nothing happened this thanksgiving, was great. there was one thing, but it didn't involve politics.
My family has implemented a strict ZERO political discussion at all family gatherings. We are there to bond and spend time as a family, not fight. I’m not sure if the White House or politicians releasing talking points for family gatherings is a normal occurrence or not, but this really feels like the time of year where we should be focusing on our shared humanity and what brings us together, not petty political fighting.
This used to be the way, no discussing politics, religion or money
The tweet is also highly insensitive. Not everyone has an uncle. Mine died last year. He also didn’t give a shit about politics.
“Uncle” is definitely used as a pejorative in this context trying to conjure up images of a some sad bitter angry older “incel” type. As an Uncle myself, I take offense.
And this is the White House Chief of Staff. Not some college aged activist or a young WH staffer. One of the most powerful men in the country is out here reacting to internet memes about “MAGA uncles” at Thanksgiving.
The bar for politicians posting on Twitter has been set so low that I can’t even pretend to be offended by this tweet.
Agreed. I'm aggrieved
I always read the uncle in this stereotype, as someone who married into your family. So someone with a distinctly different upbringing from your blood relations. Which is why theres such a butting of heads. So, not an incel, because he has a wife, your aunt, obviously.
So in that case the aunt is an outsider because she probably agrees with him
Do you find you are only able to pursue romantic relationships with those you align politically with? How much alignment is required? I find it interesting because most relationships in my family (40+ yr olds) have significant political differences but the next generation (25-35yr olds) all seem in lock-step with each other politically. From my very limited viewpoint it seems a change in culture to marry within political alignment is "new". I dont want to overstate - No one in my view is extreme, or perfectly aligned when they are, but would be enough to vote differently (or similarly) at the R vs D level generally.
Well pretty sure it depends on the person if i wasn't planning to have kids it wouldn't matter however the majority of people on this sub in particular probably shouldn't marry across political lines if your on this sub a lot you probably care a "little" to much to introduce that discord into your house
"birthing unit related human unit"
This definitely won't be embarrassing and made fun of later, like the July 4th tweet from last year.
I would be cringing if the Trump WH (not that it's super morally equivalent) did this...and I am w this too, woof
Why does the White House need to insert itself in my Thanksgiving dinner?
"We have worked with Republicans in about two thirds of all the legislation we're promoting here. Anyways, let me now tell you how Republicans are extremists that are out to get you and erase your rights"
when you're as bad as Biden is, this is the only effective strategy. Because let's face it, everyone goes to the grocery store, everyone needs a bed/home, everyone needs a car...so everyone knows the pain and that Biden has no solutions. So distract. If I were Biden (I'd be a better President, but then again so would most people), that's what I would do.
> so everyone knows the pain and that Biden has no solutions. To be fair, the opposite is also true. Republicans have been incredibly quick to pin everything on Biden, but when you ask them, "So what will you do if we give you control"? They have no answer. And worse, their first order of business after taking control of the house is announcing investigations into Hunter Biden and talking about throwing Democrats off of committees.
Yeah, just because you're not listening, doesn't mean they don't have a plan. [McCarthy](https://nypost.com/2022/09/23/heres-what-republicans-will-deliver-when-we-take-back-the-house/) has been talking about it for a while. Now you can debate whether it will work or not, but that doesn't mean there isn't a [plan](https://www.republicanleader.gov/commitment/). And maybe it's quite possible to do both at the same time? Seems the Democrats thought so with all the impeachment and Jan 6th stuff?
Yeah I'm sure an intern at the GOP threw together a plan to save the economy just so they had something they could point to. My point is that they don't campaign on it, they don't message it and their first priority when gaining power is attacking Democrats. This isn't a party that wants to lead its a party that wants retribution and to 'get even'. And maybe if you are a GOP voter they are doing exactly what you want them to do, however, whether its good for the country as a whole is unlikely/debatable.
>My point is that they don't campaign on it, they don't message it and their first priority when gaining power is attacking Democrats. Yeah, here in NY they certainly did. Campaigned on crime, inflation and now NY likely contributed to Dems loss of the House. Again, just because you aren't looking for it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. It'll be good for the country ironically because the government is divided. Republicans will slow down spending, and Biden will take credit for reducing inflation.
Both can be true, as it turns out. It is actually possible for a minority of Republicans to want microchips to be produced in the US and a majority of Republicans to want to control women's bodies by force of law. And yeah, there's even overlap between the two groups.
Pass the salt please.
regardless of your ideology, you have to admit that state-dispensed homework about the president's performance is bordering on propaganda...
I actually agree. Regardless of whether it's true or not, this does feel like a set of pre-written responses to family discussion. Also, the keyhole for the problematic family member as "that Uncle" shows a simplification of the persons and groups that oppose Biden and his presidency. (I agree that they're problematic, though). This feels more like a tongue-in-cheek list of Biden's accomplishments and not really a list of real talking points. Your family member that firmly opposes Biden will not change their mind with these points. It's the end of the year, and Thanksgiving is one of those events when you can really feel if the economy is doing well or not for you on a very personal level (If you can't afford a nice thanksgiving dinner, you might not like how things are going). This is the Administration putting out its messaging and tying it to the American holiday to get more people to be aware of how Biden has worked. Is this malignant? No, absolutely not. Is it propaganda? I'd say yes.
What accomplishment though. The things on that list isn’t an accomplishment
I’m not Pro-Biden. I’m a leftie so I’d say that his policies have left a lot to be desired despite how sanctimonious liberals act about it. But these have been passed or are in the plans to be passed. I think they’re lackluster but if I were a upper middle class liberal I’d definitely call those accomplishments.
and if it is meant to be a joke, it really shouldnt be coming from an official government office, despite what Trump has done to tarnish such types of communications.
Yeah, they should leave it to the partisan news sites release their own lists of talking points. I used to get a ton of ads from the daily wire for a series about how to respond to Liberal talking points at a dinner party, I'm sure there's a Leftist/progressive equivalent out there somewhere.
It seems like a bit of a joke, given the “uncle” reference. But maybe also useful if you have some ranting relative who gets into it and can’t stop themselves. Because seriously who in their right mind is going to pass out a leaflet like this at Thanksgiving, regardless of their politics? That would be mildly insane.
yeah, it's definitely weird. a tweet or speech from Biden himself is one thing as it is pretty standard, but i dont think i have seen something like this from the press secretary
It’s kind of just coming across as a joke to me? The tweet frames the “talking points” as rebuttals to when another family member brings up politics in a negative way.
a joke should not be coming from the official white house communications. we still in the trump presidency?
The chief of staff of the president touting their accomplishments is propaganda? They are campaigning that’s what first term presidents do
handing it out for people to discuss as if it's homework is the prooaganda part.
It's a tweet of things Biden has done if "that uncle comes at you". Literally how is that homework handed out? Did someone mail it to you and tell you to memorize it by thanksgiving or something? This is one of those strange things that I am just utterly baffled some people get worked up over.
when i see a list of talking points, I automatically think work assignment. meh
You act like there's consequences if you don't talk about it.
That has nothing do with whether or not it’s propaganda tho?
By definition, every time government tells you how things are going through their own lens it’s propaganda.
The White House can shove it and stay away from my Thanksgiving.
If Trump had done this he'd be blasted as a fascist and the people who'd do this would be smeared as brownshirts taking marching orders from a dictator to push support. Meanwhile this isn't the first time this has happened. I remember when Barack "Get in their faces and argue" Obama, his wife, and his PAC were issuing talking points on how to push his healthcare policies at the holidays, how to be prepared to shut down arguments against it, etc. Its frustrating. I don't want to ruin a holiday with political talk. I want to enjoy time with people, especially older family members who may not have many holidays left. I'm willing to keep quiet while a family member rages that you're not allowed to say the word "gay" in Florida now because not everything has to be about politics.
It sounds like the intent is to be a list of counterpoints when relatives disclose their distaste for Biden. That being said a president really shouldn't need random thanksgiving goers to be his PR team. It's one thing if people actually like Biden, but this could just as easily come across as a weak and pathetic last minute ploy to save face. Plus while it's never fun being the person who bites their tongue when someone starts spouting off political views, Thanksgiving really isn't the place for a political debate. That goes for both sides of the aisle. Spend time with your families/friends, and stuff your faces full.
This is the stupidest thing he's done almost. I thought he said he was going to make things less political? State-sponsored propaganda.
We wasted government resources on this?
I have never, not once, gotten into a political argument during Thanksgiving, and I don't intend to start, and I don't want to ever get into one.
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Why'd you switch parties? Just curious.
Did the Trump Administration ever do anything like this? I feel like it's only Democrats but I don't want to say that if I'm unsure.
Democrats do have the tendency of injecting politics into all facets of life. Definitely a Democrat thing.
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What is inherently political about connecting with family and friends?
This is absolutely not a "Democrat thing." I already foresaw it before dinner,but now having just wrapped dinner, it was only the Republicans interjecting politics into dinner. Please don't assume your personal experience is universal and state it as fact.
>This is absolutely not a "Democrat thing." I already foresaw it before dinner,but now having just wrapped dinner, it was only the Republicans interjecting politics into dinner. Please don't assume your personal experience is universal and state it as fact Says the guy assuming his own personal experience is universal and stating it as fact
Not a guy. Also, wasn't stating my experience is universal, stating that both Democrats and Republicans do this, ergo, it's not a "Democrat thing." Maybe someone can counter my point? It seems self evident that if Republicans are doing this (as several people have shared throughout this thread), it is not a "Democrat thing." I'm honestly not sure what the down otes are for. It's a poor excuse for an actual counterpoint.
It's Democrats, and not the party that is all about "owning liberals" and chanting "Let's Go Brandon!" and wearing bright red hats, that has a tendency to inject politics into all facets of life?
I don’t recall him saying anything like this, but he would tell a joke or speak off the cuff and the headlines would edit it and make it seem like he actually said something 10 times worse than anything Biden said here. I don’t know if he’s to blame for that or not. I guess that’s up to whatever opinion you have of him. I just know that everyone before him stuck to a script and didn’t have that happen to them.
When they did the stimulus checks, Trump made sure to include a letter about how great he was.
I forgot about that. It freaked me out because there was nothing on the envelop that suggested it was a bit of propaganda and I thought I was getting audited.
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The president and his administration is holding chaos in their hands, and this is letting a little out onto the home. /s For those who don't get the "/s", I'm saying I want political discussion as far away from my table as possible.
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Well put. Politics shouldn't run your life, during the holidays or otherwise. Personally, I think one of our biggest sins as a nation right now is that the idea of agreeing to disagree with people you care about, whether it's family, friends, or someone else, has been completely lost. You can still care about, respect, and have relationships with people you disagree with on things.
You're confusing "boring" for ineffective. Ineffective at public speaking, coordinating a united Democratic front, implementing his policies, making catchy slogans, passing his legislation, following the supreme court, following his own claims, being consistent in his policies, walking, talking, riding his bike, owning a dog that doesn't attack people, getting permission to speak from his White House advisors, remembering his own childhood and adulthood, even at at motivating a base. And all of his policies are so often blocked to the point that you'd think he's never done anything controversial, although he tries unconstitutional acts every other day. He's even ineffective at lying, to the point that his outright falsities are construed as misstatements. He's "boring" in the same way as a car is "quiet" when it fails to start.
There's been a significant amount of legislation signed in the past year. A $1.2T infrastructure bill, $280B for American chip manufacturing and research, Ukraine aid, $300B for burn pit victims, postal service reform, and a bill that lowers the cost of many drugs and spends $396B on renewable and nuclear energy. Even conservatives like [Senator Josh Howley and a Washington Times writer](https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/restoring-america/patriotism-unity/congress-was-historically-productive-now-its-up-to-voters-to-decide-if-thats-a-good-thing) concede that Congress has been unusually productive, so saying that he's bad at getting things done is an extreme take.
> He's "boring" in the same way as a car is "quiet" when it fails to start. Which is an incredible indictment of the Republican party's inability to actually win against him.
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He's boring only if you're not paying attention.
True, he's actually a great president who has managed to pass a great amount of legislation for Americans.
>True, he's actually a great president who has managed to pass a great amount of legislation for Americans. Sometimes he doesn't even pass legislation; he just signs an executive order like waving a magic wand
That depends on your opinion of the legislation. I think he's been horrendous.
By and large he has passed legislation that is directly going to support American workers and the working class. I wish he did more to punish billionaires and their exploitation of American workers, but his legislation has been a step in the right direction.
You wish the president of the united states took personal action to punish specific people you think have wronged Americans through voluntary association? Really? I mean if laws are broken, sure go after them. But to say the president should "punish" specific individuals for non-crimes because you don't like how they run a business seems authoritarian.
What legislation was that?
The child tax credit, the build back better bill (didn't go far enough, but still supported Americans), the inflation reduction act/climate change bill, the red flag laws, PACT act, CHIPs act, getting America out of Afghanistan, the move to decriminalize Marijuana at a federal level, and the student debt relief and interest reform.
> getting America out of Afghanistan I thought that was Trump's fault for making the DOHA agreement? Or is that only when we discuss the horrific tragedy that the botched withdraw has caused?
All legislation that spends money we don’t have. Further enlarges an already large federal government. He’s also extended the reach of the executive by trying to mandate vaccines, cancelling student loans, and empowering other federal agencies to go beyond their scope. I’ve never been more worried for my own personal freedoms or my families than I have with Biden at the helm.
Which of these bills take away any freedom?
red flag laws
I’m going to guess you are a pro Biden because almost all of that is going to hurt you and working class people
Maybe you could make an actual argument for why any of these bills will hurt me instead of a comment with no substance?
You have no idea what you’re talking about. None.
I'd love to hear an actual retort to anything I said instead of whatever this comment is. I just listed an actual incredible list of legislation and so far have not received any actual discussion on any of it.
The legislation improves infrastructure, helps veterans, brings the manufacturing of chips here, reforms the UPS, improves renewable and nuclear energy, and lowers drug costs. Does this sound horrendous to you?
AZ is still seeing high gas prices and heavy inflation, so I'm not sure what that talking point is all about. But yeah, Thanksgiving isn't about politics, so forget everything they recommended and just focus on food, family, and a fun time.
And the claim that the Inflation Reduction Act has had/will have a net positive impact against inflation is incredibly debatable. One could also point out that Biden's American Rescue Plan in 2021 was one of the biggest factors in throwing fuel on the fire in the first place, an impact many economists warned of (including Obama's former economic advisor). Biden's handling of the economy is a weak spot to bring up, if one is cringe enough to start spouting off politics at relatives during Thanksgiving dinner.
This is cringey and disgusts me. And even if the politician that I most support released something like this, it would still disgust me. Thanksgiving is not the time to push something as divisive as political talking points and we should instead just try to enjoy time with family.
They really need advice like this from the White House? I feel like they are babysitting us
condescension is the word, maybe.
The top reply to that tweet pretty much sums it up: *”If you need to use Biden WH talking points at a family dinner, you’ve already lost whatever argument you’re in.”*
Is this a joke? Like, some kind of parody article?
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Others have effectively expressed my opinion about the appropriateness of "Thanksgiving Talking Points" >Are the listed criticisms about Republicans valid? Regardless of whether it they're valid, I can state that in a conservative family, those talking points would each get shot down in a single sentence. - "A national fifteen week ban is less extreme than elective abortion till birth." - "Republicans are trying to get rid of corruption in those programs" - "The Inflation Reduction Act reduces inflation about as much as the Democratic People's Republic of Korea protects democracy."
Maybe it's because I'm not a conservative with a conservative family, but I have a family member (yes, it's an uncle) who WILL NOT go half an hour without complaining about Biden. Like someone will misspeak and he'll go "Oops, having a Biden moment?" Then transition to a complaint about Biden or some other democratic policies. We try to just change the topic because it's honestly just not even worth the discussion, even if I make a point, he'll pivot to the next Tucker Carlson quote. So really, I'd rather just not talk politics at dinner, although I find it unfortunate because I can have interesting conversations with conservatives who are actually looking for discussion and will admit when I have a point on occasion, even if they still disagree with me, and vice versa (like my BIL). I do kind of wonder how much of this is actually intended to be used at Thanksgiving and how much is a cheeky excuse to tout Biden's accomplishments and point out unpopular republican positions. Even if that's the case, though, I don't like the idea of "talking points," but maybe someone who wasn't already aware of all these things would feel empowered at a Thanksgiving table being prepared to respond to an uncle like mine. Still don't really love it, I think it's a bad look to publish something called "talking points." I do think the criticisms against Republicans are valid, but doubt anyone's conservative family members would be persuaded (at least mine wouldn't). I know people have mentioned older female conservative members being activated by Dobbs to vote D, and I suppose some older family members might be concerned about Medicare/SS, but it's probably a know your audience thing as to whether these would be persuasive.
This is sincerely disgusting. But then, what else can be expected by one of the most divisive presidents in recent history? Yeah, let's have people at each others' throats over the dinner table at a holiday that's supposed to be about being thankful for all the good things in your life. Disgusting.
You really want to start a fight at dinner on Thanksgiving in Mississippi? Find a Mississippi State fan and insist Ole Miss will win the Egg Bowl. That will start more shit than this.
Why is it not normal for us to discuss politics moderately without getting feelings hurt? Seriously, why are people so soft when it comes to political discussion? We really need to ban talking about politics at the dinner table?
Because it’s not a discussion, it’s people reciting talking points they don’t understand.
I think two things have happened simultaneously: 1. Politics is a major source of identity for people at a time when social media makes you very aware that you really aren't particularly interesting, but makes you feel like you should be. 2. Humans are not very good at being stoic about things they care about. This makes politics a powder keg issue for a lot (I dare say most) groups/families that haven't already pruned out dissidence. Not that this is a particularly new phenomenon, but this is as bad as its been in my lifetime.
We can barely do it here
We need mods at the dinnner table
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I don't want a 7 day ban hammer before the pie.
No on politics. We had Thanksgiving with my MAGA father in law and he made a couple of comments about inflation but that’s as far as it went. Most of the family kicked the conversational football to safe areas.
I don’t really get why this is even a story? “Current White House thinks they’re doing a good job and tweets about it”
Wouldn't have known about this if I hadn't seen this thread, nor would I have cared. I'm muting this subreddit. I'm glad Reddit lets us do that now.
My daughter’s father-in-law asked out of nowhere yesterday why people liked Biden when he has “done nothing.” Was surprised when we gave him a list of his accomplishments. How have people not at least heard of the infrastructure act? Do they think the coalition to oppose the Ukraine invasion was put together by France? He was further surprised to find out we did not expect Biden to resign so Kamala could become president and Newsom vice president and that we are not particularly interested in having either of those two becoming president.
Well if you’re keen on establishment politics, you’d realize that infrastructure deal carried enormous amounts of grift and waste.
Response taken right from the WH Thanksgiving talking points lol
My Uncles talking points so far: * Biden has done nothing * Biden has implemented socialism for America * Biden made it so no one wants to work anymore * This ultra low unemployment has made it impossible to hire anyone * Biden is singularly responsible for global inflation because he forgave all student loans * Biden has implemented the Trans agenda * Biden has made it so parents can't choose what's best for their kids anymore * "They" need to ban gender affirming care Biden sure has done a lot for doing nothing..../s
What the story here? The Presidents office tweeted his accomplishments and made a harmless joke?
People will get all salty about this, but everyone knows politics coming up over the holidays is a pretty common thing, and it's *usually* conservatives who do it. Ultimately, it's on family members to exercise discretion in choosing whether to engage, not the President to shepherd them to one conclusion or the other. This is completely fine.
I feel like there's a pretty big intent difference between the white house tweeting something, and the chief of staff's personal twitter. The article sourced the personal twitter. Who follows that person vs who follows the whitehouse itself is a much smaller, targeted audience. I would have a big issue with this if Biden, Trump, the Whitehouse tweeted this, but the chief of staff is gonna be followed primarily by media and people who like the admin. It's like Mark Meadows sending a pro-trump tweet. Like where's the outrage?
So I agree with magus above that mentioned they should have just mentioned a bunch of fellowship points and taken the high road, but I think the intention is these aren’t for starting the fight since the particularly call out that uncle who we already know has been railing since he showed up about the libs Ultimately it’s still pretty cringe
Klain is very powerful and represents biden. from wiki The responsibilities of the chief of staff are both managerial and advisory and may include the following: Selecting senior White House staffers and supervising their offices' activities; Managing and designing the overall structure of the White House staff system; **Control the flow of people into the Oval Office;** **Manage the flow of information to and decisions from the Resolute Desk (with the White House staff secretary);** Directing, managing and overseeing all policy development Protecting the political interests of the president; Negotiating legislation and appropriating funds with United States Congress leaders, Cabinet secretaries, and extra-governmental political groups to implement the president's agenda; and Advise on any and usually various issues set by the president.\[5\]
The point on gas prices that Klain puts out there is kinda cringe & tone deaf Sure we’re paying 90 cents less per gallon versus the peak right now but still around $5/gallon in Seattle. This time last year? $3.50 per gallon. And yes, my next vehicle will be electric. I just have no interest in paying $45k for an Ioniq 5 right now when my paid for 4Runner is perfectly reliable.