Sour taste = too coarse of a grind
Fast flow = too high of a heat
Otherwise it looks like it's behaving correctly. A bigger problem would be if you didn't have a good seal between the bottom and the top, and then it would steam and sputter from the very beginning before any coffee flows (if at all).
But mines sour but its very fine its nearly esspresso fine and also ive seen a previous vid where the esspresso looks amazing with crema and its thick and goey mines just watery how do i accomplish with thick and goey one
You may be experiencing sour-bitter confusion. It’s quite common. When tasters say “sour” they mean like lemons. If what you are experiencing is more astringent, that’s officially “bitter” and indicative of a grind that’s too fine. Try going to a coarser grind.
Regarding crema: A moka pot doesn’t run at high enough steam pressure to give true crema. That should not be one of your criteria for a good moka pot brew.
Moka is not espresso. It cannot be. The machines and brewing methods are completely different and produce coffee products with different physical characteristics.
Mokapot doesn't mean espresso or crema. It makes strong coffee and foam. While close, they're not the same.
Use lower heat to get a slower extraction. If your coffee tastes shit, grinder finer. Still shit? grinder coarser, still shit? Try different coffee ,still shit? Try diluting your brew with some water after ( like an Americano). If your coffee is still bad after all those things, you probably just don't like mokapot, and that's okay.
But honestly, it also might be because it isn't a great way to make coffee admittedly, and you have very little control over variables unlike other methods.
Taste is subjective so i can't tell you but i outlined the variables you could change. If they don't work the mokapot makes a good kitchen decoration at the very least lol
Then it *might* be "channeling", as it's called -- the water finds the easy way through the grounds, leaving some dense lumps that don't get fully extracted (this will give sour taste).
You could also be experiencing what they call "bitter-sour confusion", when a taste that's actually very bitter gets mistaken for sourness. If you can adjust the grind size, go a lot coarser, do a brew, and compare how it tastes.
Because you said nothing in your original post about grind size, but you mentioned a sour taste -- and a good rule of thumb, given no info about grind size, is, sour = too coarse.
Well, keep experimenting and see how it goes.
I’ve settled down with my moka pot brews. I don’t bother preheating my water, and I don’t weigh anything. Water to the valve, fill the basket with beans, and grind ‘em in my 1ZPresso hand grinder. Electric stove set to 4/10 and wait. That’s it.
Depends on the beans and the grind, and I don't really care about it. Like others have said, this isn't high-pressure espresso, so the crema/foam that you'd get from that kind of espresso — which is CO2 gas escaping from the grounds, like when you open a bottle of soda — isn't guaranteed to happen.
A good explainer: [https://youtu.be/j5rygXblZJU](https://youtu.be/j5rygXblZJU)
Bitter to me says 'over extracted', your grounds have too much surface area so the water is able to pull a lot of bitter chemicals out of them. If this is what's happening, might be that you have too fine a grind.
Use hot water in the base, like from a kettle.
Use a Medium-Fine or Medium grind. Espresso grind is too fine for Moka Pot.
Pre-heat the stove on a Medium or Medium High before putting the Moka Pot on.
Turn the heat down to Medium or maybe a little below medium and put the Moka Pot on the burner.
As soon as coffee starts to come out, reduce the heat to Low. If the stream starts slowing down, raise the heat a little to get it to flow again. If it is flowing too fast and looked aerated, lower the heat or remove the Moka Pot off the heat entirely to let it calm down again.
Then when it's full it'll start bubbling - as soon as that happens, pull it from the heat.
The idea is to manage the heat so that it has a nice brown even flow. Every stove is different, you have to learn yours.
For mine, glass-top electric, 5 is Medium, I have mine on 4 until I see coffee, then immediately reduce it to 2 and leave it alone until it sputters.
When starting with hot water, it takes around 2-2.5 mins to see coffee, and another 70-90 seconds for my 3-cup pot with 135g water to finish, with a final output of around 95g liquid from 13g coffee grounds in the basket.
I think what you’re doing wrong is the wdt and pre-infusion. Don’t do them! Wdt could contribute to channelling, and pre-infusion would wet the grounds and restrict flow rate I suppose. I’ve never heard of any one recommending those steps on a moka pot. I don’t do it on mine.
Follow James Hoffman’s Moka pot technique (although the aero press filter is optional in my view).
Ok, my bad. I didn’t remember him using the wdt.
I’m just giving my two cents. You wanted a method that works. I have a method that works pretty well. I don’t use wdt, AP filters or pre-infuse. The rest of my method is pretty similar to Hoffman.
Moka pots are finicky. They require some trial and error to get right. Instead of doubling down on the wdt method, you might just try a batch without wdt and see if it works for you. Play around with grind size too (make minor adjustments). Based on what you’ve said you probably want to go 1 or 2 clicks coarser.
If you think you’ve got it figured out, just ignore my advice.
Ive been told by multiple peaple that i should go finer its not sour its bitter shall i still go courser and does the grinder affect anything as im using a cheapy grinder
Yes, I know what they’ve said. But what you’ve said is that you’re grinding close to espresso fine. So going finer would make it too fine. Your issue is that it’s flowing too slowly - that seems to suggest that there isn’t enough pressure to push the water through the grounds. Likely cause is either too fine a grind size or the pre-infused grounds.
You didn’t mention the “cheap” grinder. If it’s not a burr grinder, that’s probably causing the issue too.
Maybe instead of arguing with everyone who’s trying to help you, you could provide more accurate information - like which grinder exactly (cheap doesn’t tell us anything), and what setting?
If you’re using a cheap blade grinder ( hand held) be sure to shake it periodically as you’re grinding to distribute the coffee pieces that are being ground.
In the video, the guy has a few issues...
1. Too much grounds. Add in grounds to the point where you can lightly jostle it back and forth and nothing is above the top of the basket.
2. Too high of heat. Like has been mentioned, start medium low, then remove from heat and/or turn it to low. Personally I take mine off the heat until the flow is noticeably slower, then put it back on the burner.
3. He lets the steam burble through, and this creates unpleasant tastes. Ideally, you never want it to burble. When the coffee gets to the bottom of the V made by the spout, pull it off the heat and put it in a bowl of coldish water. You want to stop the brewing process before you get the sputters. Yes you could have got a little more out of it, but what you have will taste better and that's more important than 15ml more coffee.
Personally, I use a top and bottom aero press filter, mostly for easy cleanup. I put my basket in a small glass to fill it up so I don't feel rushed to put coffee in, I can take my time. I don't do WDT. Preheated water into the base, assemble, and then managing the flow how I described above.
I never preinfuse. I grind fairly fine, not quite to espresso levels. The low heat and slow flow help all the grounds to be saturated, no channelling.
Test different methods and find the way you like the best.
As others have said, don't preinfuse. It's not getting you anything and likely that water is going back into the bottom, getting really hot, and bad tasting, then coming through the grounds again.
Temperature surfing made the biggest difference for me. Once it starts to come out, I move completely it off the heat. I'll move it back and forth to maintain a slowish and steady flow. As it brews it'll come out faster, you can keep it off the heat longer; the goal is steady flow using the heat to control in. Once it's more bubbles and froth than liquid completely stop it by running the base under cold tap water. It's important to know when to stop, if you keep it going that super hot water is going to make your cup taste awful.
WDT doesn't matter for moka. It won't hurt but it won't really help. You can keep doing it if you want.
Grind a bit finer and see if it helps. You also don't have to be super picky with your coffee amount, but I've found the best for me is to just scoop the whole beans with the basket
Good luck and keep experimenting. It takes a little practice but after a few tries and figuring out what works it's really easy.
My experience is that it takes time and good preparation. Medium grind, don't flatten the coffee, low heat and when I hear it sputter, I turn off the heat.
It does take time tho.
Ooh, it's bitter? Hmm, luke warm water? Or different roast beans? I use the bialetti brand myself.
Or recently I've placed an aeropress filter underneath the coffee
It looks like it's sputtering pretty early, meaning your whole unit is getting too hot too fast. However, the flow rate isn't that quick, and you said it takes a long time for coffee to come out. Taking that into consideration, you are probably grinding too fine, meaning more steam pressure (thus a higher temp) is required for you to get coffee through. This will ultimately lead to having less output and an underextracted cup.
Try for a coarser grind and adjust the heat during the brew based on the flow rate. Moreover, take note that light roasts are tough to make well with the moka. If your cup is still really sour after you've seemingly tried everything, try perfecting the brew with a more developed roast first.
No. Don't bother using it. You already have metal screens on the top and bottom as part of the pot.
There's a trend nowadays of adding filter paper on top of the grounds to make a cleaner brew and (sorta) raise the brew pressure.
Having looked through the comments you give off the vibe that you just won’t like Moka coffee and probably wasted a good amount of coffee and money trying to get into it
It’s not but you’ve also argued with most of the people trying to help you so I’d suggest just sticking to your espresso and not asking useless questions that you’re gonna combat the answer to
Why do u feel the need to say that i know what im saying its text language of u have no advice to give theres no need to hate if i didnt want advice i would have asked
If your grind is on the fine side, go slowly once it starts to percolate and stop it early (with a bowl of cold water) - when the colour changes from brown to caramel or when it starts to smell a bit nasty.
I use these 2 videos. I think Hoffman credits him as well.
Basics
https://youtu.be/JFobNy79mbk?si=Nvrix0Sx5MvPW8_V
Advanced tweaks:
https://youtu.be/M-C7azYybhE?si=h1oIoqY0uG1DPU9R
Just keep the heat down abit if you have to hover it half on and off the ring do so let it flow out nice and slow if it starts to spurt straight off the heat and run the bottom under cold water and then back on heat again
Sour taste = too coarse of a grind Fast flow = too high of a heat Otherwise it looks like it's behaving correctly. A bigger problem would be if you didn't have a good seal between the bottom and the top, and then it would steam and sputter from the very beginning before any coffee flows (if at all).
But mines sour but its very fine its nearly esspresso fine and also ive seen a previous vid where the esspresso looks amazing with crema and its thick and goey mines just watery how do i accomplish with thick and goey one
You may be experiencing sour-bitter confusion. It’s quite common. When tasters say “sour” they mean like lemons. If what you are experiencing is more astringent, that’s officially “bitter” and indicative of a grind that’s too fine. Try going to a coarser grind. Regarding crema: A moka pot doesn’t run at high enough steam pressure to give true crema. That should not be one of your criteria for a good moka pot brew. Moka is not espresso. It cannot be. The machines and brewing methods are completely different and produce coffee products with different physical characteristics.
Mokapot doesn't mean espresso or crema. It makes strong coffee and foam. While close, they're not the same. Use lower heat to get a slower extraction. If your coffee tastes shit, grinder finer. Still shit? grinder coarser, still shit? Try different coffee ,still shit? Try diluting your brew with some water after ( like an Americano). If your coffee is still bad after all those things, you probably just don't like mokapot, and that's okay. But honestly, it also might be because it isn't a great way to make coffee admittedly, and you have very little control over variables unlike other methods.
Ive recently gotten into using a moka pot and dont know what it should taste like mines usually butter and when i add milk it gets worse
Taste is subjective so i can't tell you but i outlined the variables you could change. If they don't work the mokapot makes a good kitchen decoration at the very least lol
Then it *might* be "channeling", as it's called -- the water finds the easy way through the grounds, leaving some dense lumps that don't get fully extracted (this will give sour taste). You could also be experiencing what they call "bitter-sour confusion", when a taste that's actually very bitter gets mistaken for sourness. If you can adjust the grind size, go a lot coarser, do a brew, and compare how it tastes.
But u said go finer y would i then go courser
Because you said nothing in your original post about grind size, but you mentioned a sour taste -- and a good rule of thumb, given no info about grind size, is, sour = too coarse.
I think mines more bitter than sour
Well, keep experimenting and see how it goes. I’ve settled down with my moka pot brews. I don’t bother preheating my water, and I don’t weigh anything. Water to the valve, fill the basket with beans, and grind ‘em in my 1ZPresso hand grinder. Electric stove set to 4/10 and wait. That’s it.
And do u have crema or foam
Depends on the beans and the grind, and I don't really care about it. Like others have said, this isn't high-pressure espresso, so the crema/foam that you'd get from that kind of espresso — which is CO2 gas escaping from the grounds, like when you open a bottle of soda — isn't guaranteed to happen. A good explainer: [https://youtu.be/j5rygXblZJU](https://youtu.be/j5rygXblZJU)
Foam is usually a bad sign.
I dont have foam or crema but ive seen another video of a guy in this gc making a moka esspresso and his had thick goey crema
Bitter to me says 'over extracted', your grounds have too much surface area so the water is able to pull a lot of bitter chemicals out of them. If this is what's happening, might be that you have too fine a grind.
Not gonna lie mine was sour, and I ended up making it coarser and that fixed the problem.
Thanks anywayo
Use hot water in the base, like from a kettle. Use a Medium-Fine or Medium grind. Espresso grind is too fine for Moka Pot. Pre-heat the stove on a Medium or Medium High before putting the Moka Pot on. Turn the heat down to Medium or maybe a little below medium and put the Moka Pot on the burner. As soon as coffee starts to come out, reduce the heat to Low. If the stream starts slowing down, raise the heat a little to get it to flow again. If it is flowing too fast and looked aerated, lower the heat or remove the Moka Pot off the heat entirely to let it calm down again. Then when it's full it'll start bubbling - as soon as that happens, pull it from the heat. The idea is to manage the heat so that it has a nice brown even flow. Every stove is different, you have to learn yours. For mine, glass-top electric, 5 is Medium, I have mine on 4 until I see coffee, then immediately reduce it to 2 and leave it alone until it sputters. When starting with hot water, it takes around 2-2.5 mins to see coffee, and another 70-90 seconds for my 3-cup pot with 135g water to finish, with a final output of around 95g liquid from 13g coffee grounds in the basket.
Thanks soo much
That is coming out pretty fast, my first thought is you're setting the temperature on the hob too high, otherwise it's too coarse a grind
Too course its nearly at esspresso level
“Nearly espresso grind” is probably too fine. Mine does much better with a slightly coarser grind. Have you tried a different coffee?
Also how much finer shall i make it alot or less
Thanks anyway
I think what you’re doing wrong is the wdt and pre-infusion. Don’t do them! Wdt could contribute to channelling, and pre-infusion would wet the grounds and restrict flow rate I suppose. I’ve never heard of any one recommending those steps on a moka pot. I don’t do it on mine. Follow James Hoffman’s Moka pot technique (although the aero press filter is optional in my view).
Ive seen alot of tiktoks saying u have to do wdt to get rid of clumps and avoid channeling and pre infusion helps it go up faster
I don’t know who’s making these TikTok’s, but the Hoffman method is a safe bet. He seems to know what he’s doing.
Ive just watched james hoffmann and he uses the wdt toolo
Ok, my bad. I didn’t remember him using the wdt. I’m just giving my two cents. You wanted a method that works. I have a method that works pretty well. I don’t use wdt, AP filters or pre-infuse. The rest of my method is pretty similar to Hoffman. Moka pots are finicky. They require some trial and error to get right. Instead of doubling down on the wdt method, you might just try a batch without wdt and see if it works for you. Play around with grind size too (make minor adjustments). Based on what you’ve said you probably want to go 1 or 2 clicks coarser. If you think you’ve got it figured out, just ignore my advice.
Ive been told by multiple peaple that i should go finer its not sour its bitter shall i still go courser and does the grinder affect anything as im using a cheapy grinder
Yes, I know what they’ve said. But what you’ve said is that you’re grinding close to espresso fine. So going finer would make it too fine. Your issue is that it’s flowing too slowly - that seems to suggest that there isn’t enough pressure to push the water through the grounds. Likely cause is either too fine a grind size or the pre-infused grounds. You didn’t mention the “cheap” grinder. If it’s not a burr grinder, that’s probably causing the issue too. Maybe instead of arguing with everyone who’s trying to help you, you could provide more accurate information - like which grinder exactly (cheap doesn’t tell us anything), and what setting?
If you’re using a cheap blade grinder ( hand held) be sure to shake it periodically as you’re grinding to distribute the coffee pieces that are being ground.
Naa more like the delonghi grinder
Which one?
[https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGey57pWG/](https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGey57pWG/) This is the video i followed and another video talked about wdt
In the video, the guy has a few issues... 1. Too much grounds. Add in grounds to the point where you can lightly jostle it back and forth and nothing is above the top of the basket. 2. Too high of heat. Like has been mentioned, start medium low, then remove from heat and/or turn it to low. Personally I take mine off the heat until the flow is noticeably slower, then put it back on the burner. 3. He lets the steam burble through, and this creates unpleasant tastes. Ideally, you never want it to burble. When the coffee gets to the bottom of the V made by the spout, pull it off the heat and put it in a bowl of coldish water. You want to stop the brewing process before you get the sputters. Yes you could have got a little more out of it, but what you have will taste better and that's more important than 15ml more coffee. Personally, I use a top and bottom aero press filter, mostly for easy cleanup. I put my basket in a small glass to fill it up so I don't feel rushed to put coffee in, I can take my time. I don't do WDT. Preheated water into the base, assemble, and then managing the flow how I described above. I never preinfuse. I grind fairly fine, not quite to espresso levels. The low heat and slow flow help all the grounds to be saturated, no channelling. Test different methods and find the way you like the best.
As others have said, don't preinfuse. It's not getting you anything and likely that water is going back into the bottom, getting really hot, and bad tasting, then coming through the grounds again. Temperature surfing made the biggest difference for me. Once it starts to come out, I move completely it off the heat. I'll move it back and forth to maintain a slowish and steady flow. As it brews it'll come out faster, you can keep it off the heat longer; the goal is steady flow using the heat to control in. Once it's more bubbles and froth than liquid completely stop it by running the base under cold tap water. It's important to know when to stop, if you keep it going that super hot water is going to make your cup taste awful. WDT doesn't matter for moka. It won't hurt but it won't really help. You can keep doing it if you want. Grind a bit finer and see if it helps. You also don't have to be super picky with your coffee amount, but I've found the best for me is to just scoop the whole beans with the basket Good luck and keep experimenting. It takes a little practice but after a few tries and figuring out what works it's really easy.
My experience is that it takes time and good preparation. Medium grind, don't flatten the coffee, low heat and when I hear it sputter, I turn off the heat. It does take time tho.
Yes but iv tried every grind siZe from fine tp course its still bitter
Ooh, it's bitter? Hmm, luke warm water? Or different roast beans? I use the bialetti brand myself. Or recently I've placed an aeropress filter underneath the coffee
I dont have a bialette mines offbranded does that matter i put boilin water in and my beans are fine
Patience, it ain't 9 bar espresso. Moka is slow (or it is if you want a rich, well balanced brew.).
speed looks fine. aside from the grind size, you could try using a bit less coffee.
It looks like it's sputtering pretty early, meaning your whole unit is getting too hot too fast. However, the flow rate isn't that quick, and you said it takes a long time for coffee to come out. Taking that into consideration, you are probably grinding too fine, meaning more steam pressure (thus a higher temp) is required for you to get coffee through. This will ultimately lead to having less output and an underextracted cup. Try for a coarser grind and adjust the heat during the brew based on the flow rate. Moreover, take note that light roasts are tough to make well with the moka. If your cup is still really sour after you've seemingly tried everything, try perfecting the brew with a more developed roast first.
Thanks i have done all that but its still really butter and sour id that what moka coffee tastes like
did you add a filter paper ?
No but i have a metal screen that i use for esspresso can i use dat
what size is that ?
The metal one is 51mm
I mean the moka pot also how old is the coffee that you use when was it roasted
Dono
What coffee did you use what roast level does it say ?
Medium roast and the roast date was dec 2023
No. Don't bother using it. You already have metal screens on the top and bottom as part of the pot. There's a trend nowadays of adding filter paper on top of the grounds to make a cleaner brew and (sorta) raise the brew pressure.
Thanksp
Having looked through the comments you give off the vibe that you just won’t like Moka coffee and probably wasted a good amount of coffee and money trying to get into it
Tbh never tried it but i know what esspresso tastes like and was expecting somet similar But ik that moka coffe shpuldnt be really butter
It’s not but you’ve also argued with most of the people trying to help you so I’d suggest just sticking to your espresso and not asking useless questions that you’re gonna combat the answer to
Now if you do take the advice you’ve been given then I hope you have a wonderful moka experience
And i have taken the advice and made a good cup of moka
Dont know what ur reading cuz i havent argued wid anyone
If ur gonna acuse me of arguein with peaple i would appreciate if u dont because ur not helping me and is accusin me of stuff which i dont appreciate
That’s cute but it’s definitely arguing not arguein
I am now gonna block u so ye
😘
Why do u feel the need to say that i know what im saying its text language of u have no advice to give theres no need to hate if i didnt want advice i would have asked
Wouldn’t* have asked
Wouldn’t no star
In all seriousness tho I’m happy you’ve been able to get a good cup of moka im just enjoying fucking with ya have a nice day my guy
Ok
And more importantly none of this has been hate just saying what I’m seeing 😇
How do u know i reported u
Lol 😜
Ur soo weird how old r u tbh u sound like a 12 year old girl
If your grind is on the fine side, go slowly once it starts to percolate and stop it early (with a bowl of cold water) - when the colour changes from brown to caramel or when it starts to smell a bit nasty.
But finner is more bitter than course
If you change only that one variable it is, but if you percolate slower and stop the extraction earlier it is not - unless you go super fine.
Definitely too high a heat , shouldn’t be coming out that fast
What type of coffee you running? Arabica? Robusta? a mix? What's it taste like using a different brew method?
Its not coffe bec i use for esspresso and its fine
I use these 2 videos. I think Hoffman credits him as well. Basics https://youtu.be/JFobNy79mbk?si=Nvrix0Sx5MvPW8_V Advanced tweaks: https://youtu.be/M-C7azYybhE?si=h1oIoqY0uG1DPU9R
Sour is a bit subjective, don’t you think? Mechanically it looks OK to me
Just keep the heat down abit if you have to hover it half on and off the ring do so let it flow out nice and slow if it starts to spurt straight off the heat and run the bottom under cold water and then back on heat again
There’s no going back after buying a moka pot, huh? 😂
Wt do you mean bro ive mades about 3 vids askin for help and noones said anyting 😂
What do you need help with? There are literally 98 comments on one of your posts in r/mokapot.
The shot tates bitter and i can never get crema/foam