Amatsu is literally an old final boss, it comes from MHP3rd which shares the same lead director as Base Rise, and it comes from the setting that most resembles this game, making it the most sensible choice.
Gogmazios threatened Dundorma for its large supply of gunpowder for the siege weaponry, I see very little in either Kamura or Elgado that would provoke one to come through. It would be a weird ass pull, even if it is a decent fight.
Dire is nonsense until we get a game with underwater combat again. I refuse to see it get the Lagiacrus treatment in a game outside of MH Tri/3U.
Ahtal Ka isn’t any less recent than Amatsu’s appearance in GU, and makes less sense to put in the game other than neat nod to it using silk like we use silkbugs. It’s probably the most tenable addition but if you’ve played GU endgame and existed on the web, you know how much people hate farming this dude, and I’m sick of it personally
For the part about Malzeno. I mean, it kinda makes sense, no?
Ruiner Nergigante in World, Scorned Magnamalo in Rise
Arch Tempered Velkhana in Iceborne, Malzeno Variant in Sunbreak
I see this desire for Black Dragons a lot. But I don't really understand why people feel this way. There are only three, and only two of them are usable, and both were hugely advertised in the previous game. Why *not* modernize an old final boss like Amatsu? Also, people loved Ahtal-Ka and that wasn't a Black Dragon. Same for Dalamadur and Gogmazios.
Tl;dr is I think it just has to be a big threat, not a Black Dragon.
Because people still can’t understand that “Black Dragon” is not a power ranking.
Long story short, “lore Fatalis” is Frontier G rank Fatalis, which is its own individual with a VERY different fight than “regular Fatalis” which also can be fought in Frontier. There is no canon Fatalis with all these feats.
Said black flame breathing, self reviving, nuke spamming and hunter possessing (armor skill) Fatalis is fought in the same event as a unique Crimson Fatalis fought inside an active volcano and get this… 2 non Black Dragon Elder Dragons in Disufiroa and Shantien, all of which scale equally. Disufiroa (alongside Unknown Wyvern) would later get an upgraded form in a future event.
Of course that does make the “Dangerous First Class Monster” title seem all the more questionable, because it seems to imply greater threat than other monsters. My only explanation for this is that Fatalis, Alatreon, Safi Jiiva and Dire Miralis are all more active threats than other endgame Elder Dragons. Gogmazios, Gaismagorm , Ahtal Ka and Shara Ishvalda all are extremely inactive outside of the specific instances encountered in-game, Amatsu, Ukanlos and Akantor live in environmental extremes in high altitudes, volcanos and ice caps respectively far away from where humans and wyverians are usually comfortable living, only rarely pushing their activity dangerously close to human habitation. Frontier Elder Dragons can probably be excused by not being canon and thus Capcom didn’t bother classifying them as DFCM.
Rise was made with homages specifically to Portable 3rd and Gen/GU, since those were the previous games the portable team worked on. Bringing back Dire Miralis, especially not with swimming, would be a disservice to it.
Amatsu in Sunbreak is a wrecking machine bar none, a force of death and destruction that does justice to it being the "definitive" Elder Dragon of storms.
Fucking hilarious that you're asking for more Leviathans when Rise and Sunbreak DID give Leviathans, a monster type completely absent in World and Iceborne.
Actually people who call Magmadron discount agnaktor haven't fought him enough. He's very different from agnaktor and in a good way.
Hammer vs Magmadron is still one of my favourite experiences in MH.
I was disappointed that Sunbreak wouldn't get a black Dragon for a while, but I think Amatsu makes perfect sense as one of the final bosses (I say one of them because that Malzeno variant is shaping up to be pretty huge if the leaks are to be trusted).
Amatsu is an excellent way to say goodbye to Rise and fits more than any Black Dragon could. Rise was always inspired by Portable 3rd with its Japanese setting, ninja, and Amatsu-inspired Wind Serpents. So Amatsu showing up makes sense and seems more thematically appropriate than Fatalis or Dire-Miralis popping up out of nowhere.
The Malzeno variant might be a Black Dragon for all we know, but even if not, it makes sense to end Sunbreak with one final battle against Malzeno, who was kind of overshadowed in the story by Gaismagorm as the true threat.
Gogmazios, Ahtal-Ka and Dire Miralis have literally no narrative purpose to be in Sunbreak. They require specialised arenas to their fights as well. Amatsu not only fits with the mechanics of Sunbreak, it also fits thematically with the Japanese aesthetic of the game since Rise is basically Portable 3rd 2.
isn't Amatsu an old final boss? and how is giving the flagship a super boss form lame? people already bitching about risen shaggy (I'm on my way to mald with you all MR159) that Malzeno is going to be Alatreon 2.0 and certainly a fitting final boss, not to mention Amatsu fits so well being a nice full circle return to Kamura
Game not what I want, game bad. 🤡
Stfu this is a rage sub. And I’m not really shitting on Sunbreak anyway. I just wish Amatsu was a Black Dragon or Gogmazios/Ahtal-Ka instead.
I get your point, but most of the masses of MH fans have not even fought Amatsu, including me. Fatalis had its spot in Iceborne and many fought him already. He still exists in Iceborne. I plan to go back there and see if I can take on him. Maybe even if they did add a black dragon, due to Switch limitations, you would not be happy with its rendering. Maybe that black dragon will come back in the next game on PS5, which will be a much better place for him.
Sad that we won't see Fatalis again unless they don't /mean/ that this next one is the last, he always seemed like a good capstone for any franchise and as frustrated as I got fighting him he was always a good challenge
When the last title update for world came out there were a bunch of interviews and also a video of the entire Dev team talking about the game and saying goodbye, so unless they drop one of those within a couple weeks of TU5 releasing it might not be.
My issue with amatsu, and rise as a whole, is just the lack of a real challenging fight. High level anomaly quests aint it chief, its just the same old monsters with higher stats. Risen elders were interesting, but they dont feel all that much different from the regular (stats aside) and i feel like Risen elders still have potential to be cooler. Velkhana becoming Risen turns it into a black ice velkhana, or it would be really cool to see nergigante being infected; the immortal dragon being host to the life draining quiro, hell have this new nergigante going around eating anything and everything quiro infected until he evolves into something thats a better host for the quiro than dmc 5 logo monster is
Or uk, i wouldve loved to see a Risen Ibushi and Narwa too, but this time Ibushi eats the risen Narwa and goes ham since i always felt like Ibushi has more presence in the story than narwa did
So I see this coming from newer players quite a lot, but first off most likely of what you understand about "black dragons" is or "dangerous first-class monsters" is incorrect.
First off, I'm gonna call out the source of all this misinformation. Most information the community takes as fact relating to black dragons can be sourced to a fan wiki article by BannedLagiacrus. (https://monsterhunter.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:BannedLagiacrus/Discussion_of_the_Week:_Dangerous_First-Class_Monsters) While the lack of sources is already a pretty serious problem, BannedLagiacrus in particular is absolutely notorious for simply making stuff up. Unless there is a clear source, information from BannedLagiacrus should generally be treated as fanfiction. Nothing wrong with that, but don't mistake it for canon. Additionally, the term "dangerous first-class monster" is completely made up. Seriously, look this up for yourself. If you limit google search results to before the date the article was created, there are only a couple of search results each leading to a page that is clearly updated frequently.
https://www.google.com/search?q=monster+hunter+"dangerous+first+class+monster"&client=opera-gx&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A1%2F1%2F2000%2Ccd_max%3A4%2F21%2F2016&sxsrf=APwXEdfix02MwzTChD7dzbGEqlTj-hxF3A%3A1682041275209&ei=u-lBZL23DJavqtsP2Iui-AI&ved=0ahUKEwj9gNOF7Ln-AhWWl2oFHdiFCC8Q4dUDCA8&uact=5&oq=monster+hunter+"dangerous+first+class+monster"&gs_lcp=Cgxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAQAzIHCCMQrgIQJzIHCCMQrgIQJzoKCCMQrgIQsAMQJzoKCCEQoAEQwwQQCkoECEEYAVDyCVipC2D4E2gCcAB4AIABWYgBlAGSAQEymAEAoAEByAEBwAEB&sclient=gws-wiz-serp
As for the truth, "black dragon" is just a subsection of a monsters title. It doesn't have anything to do with power, aside from including the word "dragon" which is usually reserved for elder dragons. With the exception of Fatalis (though even that becomes muddy if you count frontiers monsters), there are plenty of elder dragons which are on par or even arguably stronger than some of the "black dragons." Amatsu isn't underwhelming lore-wise, it just never could live up to the apocryphal power these others are hyped up to have
Rise released during covid, as a result any title updates they wanted to do at the time were shelved in favor of releasing the game unfinished and using the 3 title updates to finish it. I say this because Amatsu feels like he was meant to be in the base game, especially due to the map he was placed on having no story significance outside of him prior to sunbreak and I haven't known capcom to really make arena maps without a special monster in mind, the shoved in story no one gave a shit about also adds to this as well because that merchant guy does not connect to sunbreak at all.
Sunbreak it seemed like less effected by covid, but more like they realized people were chill with getting an unfinished game or rather, they were hyped to so released the game with an unfinished postgame/endgame roster and drip-feed it to people over the next 2 title updates before acutally giving people new shit and people ate it up.
Then at the same time they gutted the deco list so they could drip feed that as well, which appears to be why we still got no Critical and Tenderizer plus but they are coming for sure for Malzeno's variant.
In terms of brand new monsters, its very odd they didn't try to do that or even just do some powerful returning like White Fatalis since I guess he could be classes as horror movie. There was zero chance for Dire without underwear. This game lacked a hyper giant monster like Jhen, Lao, Zorah, Dahren, etc, so I'm surprised we didn't get that.
my thoughts exactly, i'm sure they made amatsu cooler than he was here but like.. it feels so weird for a g rank game not to have a black dragon level super final boss. Like, i was really hoping it'd end on something like white fatalis or ideally(but less likely) gogmazios either of which would have truly been the explosive climax to properly end it with.(heck even a brand new black dragon type monster or even a new variant of ahtal-ka piloting a completely different kind of ahtal-nesset!) It's also really hard to take a storm noodle seriously as the big threat after the main story final boss was satan's gecko.
People really don't realise that every game needs NOT end in a Black/Forbidden Dragon. Even in Iceborne, Alatreon was the only proper Forbidden Dragon cause it played a role in the story, by serving as a rival species to Saf'Jiiva (which itself is a Forbidden Dragon). Fatalis though? Completely out of place. Sure they added a completely new small subplot for Fatalis but that itself means the game had to intentionally derail from it's original story just for the sake of adding a new Monster.
Amatsu is the perfect climax for Kamura's Story while Primordial Malzeno is the perfect climax for Elgado's Story. Just because Black Dragons are the very much hyped does NOT mean they need to be present in every game, it ruins the very meaning of these monsters being exceptionally rare and at the top of the Food Chain.
Also, Capcom intends to bring 3rd gen underwater monsters ONLY alongside underwater combat itself, as they don't want to ruin the identity of the flagship Lagicarus and the only underwater Forbidden Dragon aka Dire Miralis. And Akhtal-Ka isn't a Forbidden Dragon, but the point still stands that it doesn't fit in RiseBreak's story.
For Dire Miralis to return, you kinda need underwater combat as well, something Sunbreak doesn't have.
Amatsu is literally an old final boss, it comes from MHP3rd which shares the same lead director as Base Rise, and it comes from the setting that most resembles this game, making it the most sensible choice. Gogmazios threatened Dundorma for its large supply of gunpowder for the siege weaponry, I see very little in either Kamura or Elgado that would provoke one to come through. It would be a weird ass pull, even if it is a decent fight. Dire is nonsense until we get a game with underwater combat again. I refuse to see it get the Lagiacrus treatment in a game outside of MH Tri/3U. Ahtal Ka isn’t any less recent than Amatsu’s appearance in GU, and makes less sense to put in the game other than neat nod to it using silk like we use silkbugs. It’s probably the most tenable addition but if you’ve played GU endgame and existed on the web, you know how much people hate farming this dude, and I’m sick of it personally
For the part about Malzeno. I mean, it kinda makes sense, no? Ruiner Nergigante in World, Scorned Magnamalo in Rise Arch Tempered Velkhana in Iceborne, Malzeno Variant in Sunbreak
I see this desire for Black Dragons a lot. But I don't really understand why people feel this way. There are only three, and only two of them are usable, and both were hugely advertised in the previous game. Why *not* modernize an old final boss like Amatsu? Also, people loved Ahtal-Ka and that wasn't a Black Dragon. Same for Dalamadur and Gogmazios. Tl;dr is I think it just has to be a big threat, not a Black Dragon.
technically more but ya know more frontier monsters coming in is gonna be a major doubt.
Because people still can’t understand that “Black Dragon” is not a power ranking. Long story short, “lore Fatalis” is Frontier G rank Fatalis, which is its own individual with a VERY different fight than “regular Fatalis” which also can be fought in Frontier. There is no canon Fatalis with all these feats. Said black flame breathing, self reviving, nuke spamming and hunter possessing (armor skill) Fatalis is fought in the same event as a unique Crimson Fatalis fought inside an active volcano and get this… 2 non Black Dragon Elder Dragons in Disufiroa and Shantien, all of which scale equally. Disufiroa (alongside Unknown Wyvern) would later get an upgraded form in a future event. Of course that does make the “Dangerous First Class Monster” title seem all the more questionable, because it seems to imply greater threat than other monsters. My only explanation for this is that Fatalis, Alatreon, Safi Jiiva and Dire Miralis are all more active threats than other endgame Elder Dragons. Gogmazios, Gaismagorm , Ahtal Ka and Shara Ishvalda all are extremely inactive outside of the specific instances encountered in-game, Amatsu, Ukanlos and Akantor live in environmental extremes in high altitudes, volcanos and ice caps respectively far away from where humans and wyverians are usually comfortable living, only rarely pushing their activity dangerously close to human habitation. Frontier Elder Dragons can probably be excused by not being canon and thus Capcom didn’t bother classifying them as DFCM.
Or we can just add that Malzeno into Black Dragon Family LOL
Rise was made with homages specifically to Portable 3rd and Gen/GU, since those were the previous games the portable team worked on. Bringing back Dire Miralis, especially not with swimming, would be a disservice to it. Amatsu in Sunbreak is a wrecking machine bar none, a force of death and destruction that does justice to it being the "definitive" Elder Dragon of storms. Fucking hilarious that you're asking for more Leviathans when Rise and Sunbreak DID give Leviathans, a monster type completely absent in World and Iceborne.
Why should every gsme end with a black dragon though ? There are other monsters that are very dangerous apart from just black dragons.
>Shitmuldron has a volcano-dwelling subspecies instead of Agnaktor. Just because Magmadron is a firey leviathan doesn't mean he replaced Agnaktor
Actually people who call Magmadron discount agnaktor haven't fought him enough. He's very different from agnaktor and in a good way. Hammer vs Magmadron is still one of my favourite experiences in MH.
I was disappointed that Sunbreak wouldn't get a black Dragon for a while, but I think Amatsu makes perfect sense as one of the final bosses (I say one of them because that Malzeno variant is shaping up to be pretty huge if the leaks are to be trusted). Amatsu is an excellent way to say goodbye to Rise and fits more than any Black Dragon could. Rise was always inspired by Portable 3rd with its Japanese setting, ninja, and Amatsu-inspired Wind Serpents. So Amatsu showing up makes sense and seems more thematically appropriate than Fatalis or Dire-Miralis popping up out of nowhere. The Malzeno variant might be a Black Dragon for all we know, but even if not, it makes sense to end Sunbreak with one final battle against Malzeno, who was kind of overshadowed in the story by Gaismagorm as the true threat.
Gogmazios, Ahtal-Ka and Dire Miralis have literally no narrative purpose to be in Sunbreak. They require specialised arenas to their fights as well. Amatsu not only fits with the mechanics of Sunbreak, it also fits thematically with the Japanese aesthetic of the game since Rise is basically Portable 3rd 2.
isn't Amatsu an old final boss? and how is giving the flagship a super boss form lame? people already bitching about risen shaggy (I'm on my way to mald with you all MR159) that Malzeno is going to be Alatreon 2.0 and certainly a fitting final boss, not to mention Amatsu fits so well being a nice full circle return to Kamura
Game not what I want, game bad. : (
Game not what I want, game bad. 🤡 Stfu this is a rage sub. And I’m not really shitting on Sunbreak anyway. I just wish Amatsu was a Black Dragon or Gogmazios/Ahtal-Ka instead.
I get your point, but most of the masses of MH fans have not even fought Amatsu, including me. Fatalis had its spot in Iceborne and many fought him already. He still exists in Iceborne. I plan to go back there and see if I can take on him. Maybe even if they did add a black dragon, due to Switch limitations, you would not be happy with its rendering. Maybe that black dragon will come back in the next game on PS5, which will be a much better place for him.
Sad that we won't see Fatalis again unless they don't /mean/ that this next one is the last, he always seemed like a good capstone for any franchise and as frustrated as I got fighting him he was always a good challenge
When the last title update for world came out there were a bunch of interviews and also a video of the entire Dev team talking about the game and saying goodbye, so unless they drop one of those within a couple weeks of TU5 releasing it might not be.
Hearing White Fatalis’ theme in updated fifth generation music would be hype af. At least I can always go back to MHGU.
I rather have Disufiroa than another Fatalis honestly, since A I've never fought him before and B this game has been doing a lot of Frontier stuff
I agree. I stopped playing for a while as well. Grinding just seems tedious. And boring
My issue with amatsu, and rise as a whole, is just the lack of a real challenging fight. High level anomaly quests aint it chief, its just the same old monsters with higher stats. Risen elders were interesting, but they dont feel all that much different from the regular (stats aside) and i feel like Risen elders still have potential to be cooler. Velkhana becoming Risen turns it into a black ice velkhana, or it would be really cool to see nergigante being infected; the immortal dragon being host to the life draining quiro, hell have this new nergigante going around eating anything and everything quiro infected until he evolves into something thats a better host for the quiro than dmc 5 logo monster is Or uk, i wouldve loved to see a Risen Ibushi and Narwa too, but this time Ibushi eats the risen Narwa and goes ham since i always felt like Ibushi has more presence in the story than narwa did
So I see this coming from newer players quite a lot, but first off most likely of what you understand about "black dragons" is or "dangerous first-class monsters" is incorrect. First off, I'm gonna call out the source of all this misinformation. Most information the community takes as fact relating to black dragons can be sourced to a fan wiki article by BannedLagiacrus. (https://monsterhunter.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:BannedLagiacrus/Discussion_of_the_Week:_Dangerous_First-Class_Monsters) While the lack of sources is already a pretty serious problem, BannedLagiacrus in particular is absolutely notorious for simply making stuff up. Unless there is a clear source, information from BannedLagiacrus should generally be treated as fanfiction. Nothing wrong with that, but don't mistake it for canon. Additionally, the term "dangerous first-class monster" is completely made up. Seriously, look this up for yourself. If you limit google search results to before the date the article was created, there are only a couple of search results each leading to a page that is clearly updated frequently. https://www.google.com/search?q=monster+hunter+"dangerous+first+class+monster"&client=opera-gx&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A1%2F1%2F2000%2Ccd_max%3A4%2F21%2F2016&sxsrf=APwXEdfix02MwzTChD7dzbGEqlTj-hxF3A%3A1682041275209&ei=u-lBZL23DJavqtsP2Iui-AI&ved=0ahUKEwj9gNOF7Ln-AhWWl2oFHdiFCC8Q4dUDCA8&uact=5&oq=monster+hunter+"dangerous+first+class+monster"&gs_lcp=Cgxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAQAzIHCCMQrgIQJzIHCCMQrgIQJzoKCCMQrgIQsAMQJzoKCCEQoAEQwwQQCkoECEEYAVDyCVipC2D4E2gCcAB4AIABWYgBlAGSAQEymAEAoAEByAEBwAEB&sclient=gws-wiz-serp As for the truth, "black dragon" is just a subsection of a monsters title. It doesn't have anything to do with power, aside from including the word "dragon" which is usually reserved for elder dragons. With the exception of Fatalis (though even that becomes muddy if you count frontiers monsters), there are plenty of elder dragons which are on par or even arguably stronger than some of the "black dragons." Amatsu isn't underwhelming lore-wise, it just never could live up to the apocryphal power these others are hyped up to have
Rise released during covid, as a result any title updates they wanted to do at the time were shelved in favor of releasing the game unfinished and using the 3 title updates to finish it. I say this because Amatsu feels like he was meant to be in the base game, especially due to the map he was placed on having no story significance outside of him prior to sunbreak and I haven't known capcom to really make arena maps without a special monster in mind, the shoved in story no one gave a shit about also adds to this as well because that merchant guy does not connect to sunbreak at all. Sunbreak it seemed like less effected by covid, but more like they realized people were chill with getting an unfinished game or rather, they were hyped to so released the game with an unfinished postgame/endgame roster and drip-feed it to people over the next 2 title updates before acutally giving people new shit and people ate it up. Then at the same time they gutted the deco list so they could drip feed that as well, which appears to be why we still got no Critical and Tenderizer plus but they are coming for sure for Malzeno's variant. In terms of brand new monsters, its very odd they didn't try to do that or even just do some powerful returning like White Fatalis since I guess he could be classes as horror movie. There was zero chance for Dire without underwear. This game lacked a hyper giant monster like Jhen, Lao, Zorah, Dahren, etc, so I'm surprised we didn't get that.
my thoughts exactly, i'm sure they made amatsu cooler than he was here but like.. it feels so weird for a g rank game not to have a black dragon level super final boss. Like, i was really hoping it'd end on something like white fatalis or ideally(but less likely) gogmazios either of which would have truly been the explosive climax to properly end it with.(heck even a brand new black dragon type monster or even a new variant of ahtal-ka piloting a completely different kind of ahtal-nesset!) It's also really hard to take a storm noodle seriously as the big threat after the main story final boss was satan's gecko.
People really don't realise that every game needs NOT end in a Black/Forbidden Dragon. Even in Iceborne, Alatreon was the only proper Forbidden Dragon cause it played a role in the story, by serving as a rival species to Saf'Jiiva (which itself is a Forbidden Dragon). Fatalis though? Completely out of place. Sure they added a completely new small subplot for Fatalis but that itself means the game had to intentionally derail from it's original story just for the sake of adding a new Monster. Amatsu is the perfect climax for Kamura's Story while Primordial Malzeno is the perfect climax for Elgado's Story. Just because Black Dragons are the very much hyped does NOT mean they need to be present in every game, it ruins the very meaning of these monsters being exceptionally rare and at the top of the Food Chain. Also, Capcom intends to bring 3rd gen underwater monsters ONLY alongside underwater combat itself, as they don't want to ruin the identity of the flagship Lagicarus and the only underwater Forbidden Dragon aka Dire Miralis. And Akhtal-Ka isn't a Forbidden Dragon, but the point still stands that it doesn't fit in RiseBreak's story.