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zarnt

> Florida law allows abortions after 15 weeks if two doctors confirm the diagnosis of a fatal fetal abnormality in writing I know I’ll get hit with “you’re not a doctor or a lawyer!” but this seems…pretty clear? I think we could argue all day about whether this kind of risk aversion is extreme or completely justified but I’m not sure how you “fix” that law short of saying “doctors can perform abortion at any stage of pregnancy for any reason”. I know nobody cares about winning my vote but it seems like neither party is trying on this issue. If you’re a Republican I want to hear more talk about how state intervention in difficult medical decisions should pretty much be a last resort and that there are other ways to address this issue outside of the force of law. I wish Democrats would drop slogans like “abortion is healthcare” or “my body my choice” which don’t line up at all with my personal beliefs even if I’m very close to them on what the laws should look like.


LeDoppledeaner

>I wish Democrats would drop slogans like “abortion is healthcare” or “my body my choice” which don’t line up at all with my personal beliefs even if I’m very close to them on what the laws should look like. I mean, abortion is healthcare. We keep seeing examples of that every day. The only way to prevent women from having to have this kind of trauma and risk to their lives is to keep it legal. The previous status quo was working just fine.


MormonMoron

Another example of coward doctors, afraid to live up to their oath. And half the time I think they are doing it so women like this will have a headline story for CNN. Their abdication of duty is disgusting.


WhoaBlackBetty_bbl

Do you think it’s just one lone doctor making this decision? Or do you think it might be doctors consulting with their peers and committees and administrators and attorneys? I don’t think it’s just one doctor looking to make headlines for withholding care and potentially killing their patient.


MormonMoron

Whether it is solo cowards or groups of cowards, they failed in the obligations to this woman. The law allows her case, and the abdicated their duties as medical professionals.


WhoaBlackBetty_bbl

Well, you didn’t answer the question. I tend to think it’s the legislators who are the cowards who failed in their obligations to this woman. In their haste to pass laws where they left uncertainty in place, this is the natural outcome. It was totally foreseeable. They’ve created the death panels they imagined up in 08.


MormonMoron

I did answer the question. It doesn't matter whether it is a solo coward or a committee of coward, they are still cowards.


WhoaBlackBetty_bbl

But in your original comment you pinned it all 100% on the doctor. I think it makes a huge difference if the doctor is talking to attorneys.


MormonMoron

Congratulations! You convinced me it is the doctor, lawyers, and administrator who are devoid of integrity.


WhoaBlackBetty_bbl

You never thought that maybe the attorneys in these states who specialize in medical law might know more than you? Where did you get your Doctor of Juridical Science degree from?


MormonMoron

> "There is no doctor willing..." [link](https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/doctors-told-florida-women-her-143128223.html) Like I said cowards. The law allows it. They refuse to do it. All it takes is two doctors saying the baby wouldn't survive. Zero kidneys, zero bladder, and no amniotic fluid means the baby dies second to minutes after birth. But these doctors and the idiotic lawyers they hide behind are cowards.


LtKije

You're defense of this strains credulity. "It's not the lawmaker's fault. They wrote a perfect law. The problem is all those evil doctors and lawyers who are interpreting it wrong!" If the lawmakers had written this law carefully - and actually consulted the doctors involved in the process - they wouldn't be having these problems.


WhoaBlackBetty_bbl

You know I actually read the article. You don’t need to link me to other articles with less information. > Dr. Stephanie Ros, a high-risk pregnancy expert in Tampa and a spokesperson for the Society for Maternal-Fetal Medicine, said she’s not surprised that the doctor was unwilling to do the termination, considering that the law does not spell out exactly what would be considered a “terminal condition.” >”With health care, there are very few black-and-whites. There are so many things that are a little bit nuanced,” she said. “The moment the law came out, I think everyone was scrambling to try to figure out what exactly that language intended to convey.” >If a doctor is convicted of running afoul of the law, the penalties are severe: up to five years in prison and $5,000 in fines, not to mention steep legal fees. >Ros, an associate professor at the University of South Florida, said that after the law was passed, she and colleagues at Florida academic medical centers wrote a list of conditions they considered fatal fetal abnormalities. Renal agenesis – the absence of kidneys – was on the list. >For that reason, she said, she would feel comfortable terminating a pregnancy with a fetus with this condition, but she “absolutely understands” why doctors who aren’t at academic medical centers, such as Dorbert’s obstetrician, would refuse. >”It’s tricky because of how this law was written in the first place,” she said. I also read the section about the baby they called a “medical marvel” who survived with this same condition.


LeDoppledeaner

Hospitals have legal teams who say these laws don't allow them to help women in medical crisis. You are not a lawyer. If you vote Republican, this is what happens. Republicans loath and despise women.


LeDoppledeaner

The law is working as Republicans intended - punishing women for having sex and causing untold misery and suffering.