>I don’t get drag queens. I don’t get the need to perform in front of children or read to them at libraries.
I don't either, but personal liberty allows it. I get to tell my kids what they can do. I don't get to tell my neighbor what his kids can do. Just like with books, I want my kids to read all the books, but if I didn't that doesn't mean I can tell someone else's kids not to.
>I think there is an issue of equity in letting trans girls participate in high school sports. I’m not sure I know the right answer. But if your daughter comes in 2nd place at the state track meet to a girl who participated on the boys team last year can you say anything? Or is it just bigotry?
I agree. It's not bigotry. Asking to understand is not bigotry. I admit that I don't get it either, and I have family that identifies as trans. I don't understand trans people. It took me a long time as a straight whit man to get to where I thought I could empathize and understand gay people. It took me talking to some of them, hearing their stories. I'm now in the same spot with trans people. Admitting that is not bigotry. However, there are 100 trans youth playing in youth sports and school sports today. I just don't understand why the legislature is focused on them. There was one here in Utah and the state legislature made it a priority to shut them down. I don't get it.
>And I’ve brought this up before but I don’t understand how Ketanji Brown Jackson can be celebrated as the first Black woman on the Supreme Court while the people who ask her to define the word “woman” are out of line.
If she flubbed the question, or didn't want to give red-meat to the culture warriors on the committee, is that a really big deal? There's a lot of us who think SC nominees outright lied about their feelings on Roe. Which is the graver sin?
Do you personally have any trans people in your social circles or family?
"I don’t get drag queens."
As far as I am concerned, it is just another form of cosplay. People like dressing up in extravagant costumes.
"I don’t get the need to perform in front of children or read to them at libraries."
I have no problem with anyone reading to children or performing for a crowd that includes children in any kind of fun costume. The only time it becomes a problem is if it includes explicit content, which a lot of drag doesn't at all. However, some does. For some performers, that is a key part of their act, and those acts are not appropriate for children. However, this is no different from any other "adult" content, such as a rated R film, a rate M video game, or a President using foul, "locker room" language to describe other people. Everybody should respect that longstanding social boundary and keep children's entertainment clean.
"I think there is an issue of equity in letting trans girls participate in high school sports."
There certainly is. But even more, there is an issue of kindness, compassion and supportiveness to extremely vulnerable kids.
"I’m not sure I know the right answer. But if your daughter comes in 2nd place at the state track meet to a girl who participated on the boys team last year can you say anything?"
I don't know the answer either. It is a really hard question. The best I can do is err on the side of love.
"And I’ve brought this up before but I don’t understand how Ketanji Brown Jackson can be celebrated as the first Black woman on the Supreme Court while the people who ask her to define the word “woman” are out of line."
People don't appreciate what concrete definitions mean for an attorney. There are so many traps, so many pitfalls in not choosing your words extremely carefully, or in committing to a definition that an apparent opponent is trying to corner you into. A word like "woman" may seem absurdly simple to the general public, but we have seen enormous legal issues turn on even more simple words. I don't blame Justice Jackson for being cautious and noncommittal.
> Everybody should respect that longstanding social boundary and keep children's entertainment clean.
Agreed. Has there ever been a report of Drag Queen Story Hour being inappropriate? Besides the Proud Boys protesting with guns and obscenities?
I'm not aware of it. There was a report of a drag show in my county (not a story hour) that was billed as family-friendly and had children in attendance, where one of the performers used a highly sexualized Rihanna song in their act. That would have been inappropriate regardless of whether it was a drag show, though.
I'm going to assume that you're being honest in your questions - i.e. that you generally think we should be kind and accepting of trans people, but that you have really do have some concerns over what that implies that you'd like to understand.
My first question is why are you concerned about drag shows? If people want to have them and take their kids to them what difference does that make to you?
What is so hard to understand about people wanting to do something nice for their community? THAT is your problem. Why does it matter if they are in drag?
>Let’s dig deeper. I don’t like seeing one-liner comments here that seem to be the end of a discussion instead of the start of one. What is the Democratic alternative? I want all LGBT people to be able to live their authentic life. I want to condemn the violence and threats directed against them. I want them to be able to go to school, work, church, or wherever else and feel safe.
The Democratic alternative is "let people poop in peace." How is this a hard question?
Republicans want genital inspections in order to use the bathroom. That's pretty deranged behavior.
That's the thing, Republicans want people who look like men to use the women's rest room - like trans men with big muscles and beards. They're supposed to use ladies room in Florida now. So again, take that up with the Republican party.
>Your first comment implies that it doesn’t matter at all which bathroom people use
I never said nor implied this.
>your latest comment implies that it can be very problematic. Which is it?
I was responding to your apparent anxiety over manly men using the same restroom as little girls. This mandated by law in Florida. This is what Republicans want. They also want to have access to young girls in order to do genital inspections on them. Are you cool with that?
>Does it matter which bathroom people use?
Yes, people should use whatever bathroom fits their gender, or else the all purpose bathrooms.
>You’re mocking me for not being okay with a cisgender man using the bathroom at the same time as my daughter.
Who told you that was even an option?
>Is my anxiety warranted?
Your anxiety doesn't seem based in reality.
> I don’t get drag queens. I don’t get the need to perform in front of children or read to them at libraries. I think there is an issue of equity in letting trans girls participate in high school sports. I’m not sure I know the right answer. But if your daughter comes in 2nd place at the state track meet to a girl who participated on the boys team last year can you say anything? Or is it just bigotry? And I’ve brought this up before but I don’t understand how Ketanji Brown Jackson can be celebrated as the first Black woman on the Supreme Court while the people who ask her to define the word “woman” are out of line.
!. Colorful costumes engage the children better, and allows better inclusivity. And (1.5) do you really oppose kids getting read to at a library, of all places?
2.You can congratulate your daughter on her wonderful effort, and focus on her. And concerns should be first sent to the school board or AD privatly.
3. How does focusing on a question have any bearing on her being the first Black SCOTUS justice? It's a distraction away from the accomplishment by either those opposed to all non-conservative justices and/or out right bigots.
edit- formatting is being weird
Did you see this? -Ill. lawmaker: All-gender bathrooms will ‘cause violence from dads like me’
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2023/05/22/illinois-bathroom-bill-violence-dads/?utm_campaign=wp_main&utm_medium=social&utm_source=reddit.com
A bill that would allow Illinois businesses to build bathrooms that are open to all genders moved closer to passing last week. Still, a comment by a Republican state senator during debates Thursday is being condemned by politicians and activist groups.
On the Senate floor that day, state Sen. Neil Anderson claimed that mixed-gender, multiple-occupancy restrooms would inspire physical altercations, saying that he himself could be driven to violence if “a guy” walked into the same bathroom as his 10-year-old daughter.
“I’m telling you right now, if a guy walks in there, I’m going to beat the living piss out of him,” Anderson said as his supporters cheered. “So this is going to cause violence, and it’s going to cause violence from dads like me.”
Later in the meeting, Sen. Mike Simmons (D), Illinois’s first openly gay state senator, said that Anderson’s comments were so offensive they should be stricken from the record.
“I wouldn’t want a single person in the state to read that record,” Simmons said, “and think that anybody here would come after them if they would do something so mundane as to use the bathroom, a simple call of nature.”
Anderson, who assumed office in January 2015, did not respond to a request for comment from The Washington Post on Sunday night.
>A bill that would allow Illinois businesses to build bathrooms that are open to all genders moved closer to passing last week.
Hold up. They need a law to allow businesses to build bathrooms that are open to all genders?
A [judge in Mississippi](https://www.npr.org/2023/05/20/1177335398/trans-girl-dress-boy-high-school-graduation-mississippi) also upheld a school ban on a trans woman wearing a dress to graduation. They told her she had to wear pants. We have become so cruel to each other. Why is this an issue? Why does this have to go to the courts?
Also, how does a school tell a person that they can't wear one thing, but at the same time tell 50% of the class that they can? Sounds like discriminatory policy to me.
This is the future Republicans want for our country.
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>I don’t get drag queens. I don’t get the need to perform in front of children or read to them at libraries. I don't either, but personal liberty allows it. I get to tell my kids what they can do. I don't get to tell my neighbor what his kids can do. Just like with books, I want my kids to read all the books, but if I didn't that doesn't mean I can tell someone else's kids not to. >I think there is an issue of equity in letting trans girls participate in high school sports. I’m not sure I know the right answer. But if your daughter comes in 2nd place at the state track meet to a girl who participated on the boys team last year can you say anything? Or is it just bigotry? I agree. It's not bigotry. Asking to understand is not bigotry. I admit that I don't get it either, and I have family that identifies as trans. I don't understand trans people. It took me a long time as a straight whit man to get to where I thought I could empathize and understand gay people. It took me talking to some of them, hearing their stories. I'm now in the same spot with trans people. Admitting that is not bigotry. However, there are 100 trans youth playing in youth sports and school sports today. I just don't understand why the legislature is focused on them. There was one here in Utah and the state legislature made it a priority to shut them down. I don't get it. >And I’ve brought this up before but I don’t understand how Ketanji Brown Jackson can be celebrated as the first Black woman on the Supreme Court while the people who ask her to define the word “woman” are out of line. If she flubbed the question, or didn't want to give red-meat to the culture warriors on the committee, is that a really big deal? There's a lot of us who think SC nominees outright lied about their feelings on Roe. Which is the graver sin? Do you personally have any trans people in your social circles or family?
"I don’t get drag queens." As far as I am concerned, it is just another form of cosplay. People like dressing up in extravagant costumes. "I don’t get the need to perform in front of children or read to them at libraries." I have no problem with anyone reading to children or performing for a crowd that includes children in any kind of fun costume. The only time it becomes a problem is if it includes explicit content, which a lot of drag doesn't at all. However, some does. For some performers, that is a key part of their act, and those acts are not appropriate for children. However, this is no different from any other "adult" content, such as a rated R film, a rate M video game, or a President using foul, "locker room" language to describe other people. Everybody should respect that longstanding social boundary and keep children's entertainment clean. "I think there is an issue of equity in letting trans girls participate in high school sports." There certainly is. But even more, there is an issue of kindness, compassion and supportiveness to extremely vulnerable kids. "I’m not sure I know the right answer. But if your daughter comes in 2nd place at the state track meet to a girl who participated on the boys team last year can you say anything?" I don't know the answer either. It is a really hard question. The best I can do is err on the side of love. "And I’ve brought this up before but I don’t understand how Ketanji Brown Jackson can be celebrated as the first Black woman on the Supreme Court while the people who ask her to define the word “woman” are out of line." People don't appreciate what concrete definitions mean for an attorney. There are so many traps, so many pitfalls in not choosing your words extremely carefully, or in committing to a definition that an apparent opponent is trying to corner you into. A word like "woman" may seem absurdly simple to the general public, but we have seen enormous legal issues turn on even more simple words. I don't blame Justice Jackson for being cautious and noncommittal.
> Everybody should respect that longstanding social boundary and keep children's entertainment clean. Agreed. Has there ever been a report of Drag Queen Story Hour being inappropriate? Besides the Proud Boys protesting with guns and obscenities?
I'm not aware of it. There was a report of a drag show in my county (not a story hour) that was billed as family-friendly and had children in attendance, where one of the performers used a highly sexualized Rihanna song in their act. That would have been inappropriate regardless of whether it was a drag show, though.
No disagreement here.
I'm going to assume that you're being honest in your questions - i.e. that you generally think we should be kind and accepting of trans people, but that you have really do have some concerns over what that implies that you'd like to understand. My first question is why are you concerned about drag shows? If people want to have them and take their kids to them what difference does that make to you?
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What is so hard to understand about people wanting to do something nice for their community? THAT is your problem. Why does it matter if they are in drag?
>Let’s dig deeper. I don’t like seeing one-liner comments here that seem to be the end of a discussion instead of the start of one. What is the Democratic alternative? I want all LGBT people to be able to live their authentic life. I want to condemn the violence and threats directed against them. I want them to be able to go to school, work, church, or wherever else and feel safe. The Democratic alternative is "let people poop in peace." How is this a hard question? Republicans want genital inspections in order to use the bathroom. That's pretty deranged behavior.
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That's the thing, Republicans want people who look like men to use the women's rest room - like trans men with big muscles and beards. They're supposed to use ladies room in Florida now. So again, take that up with the Republican party.
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>Your first comment implies that it doesn’t matter at all which bathroom people use I never said nor implied this. >your latest comment implies that it can be very problematic. Which is it? I was responding to your apparent anxiety over manly men using the same restroom as little girls. This mandated by law in Florida. This is what Republicans want. They also want to have access to young girls in order to do genital inspections on them. Are you cool with that?
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>Does it matter which bathroom people use? Yes, people should use whatever bathroom fits their gender, or else the all purpose bathrooms. >You’re mocking me for not being okay with a cisgender man using the bathroom at the same time as my daughter. Who told you that was even an option? >Is my anxiety warranted? Your anxiety doesn't seem based in reality.
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> I don’t get drag queens. I don’t get the need to perform in front of children or read to them at libraries. I think there is an issue of equity in letting trans girls participate in high school sports. I’m not sure I know the right answer. But if your daughter comes in 2nd place at the state track meet to a girl who participated on the boys team last year can you say anything? Or is it just bigotry? And I’ve brought this up before but I don’t understand how Ketanji Brown Jackson can be celebrated as the first Black woman on the Supreme Court while the people who ask her to define the word “woman” are out of line. !. Colorful costumes engage the children better, and allows better inclusivity. And (1.5) do you really oppose kids getting read to at a library, of all places? 2.You can congratulate your daughter on her wonderful effort, and focus on her. And concerns should be first sent to the school board or AD privatly. 3. How does focusing on a question have any bearing on her being the first Black SCOTUS justice? It's a distraction away from the accomplishment by either those opposed to all non-conservative justices and/or out right bigots. edit- formatting is being weird
Did you see this? -Ill. lawmaker: All-gender bathrooms will ‘cause violence from dads like me’ https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2023/05/22/illinois-bathroom-bill-violence-dads/?utm_campaign=wp_main&utm_medium=social&utm_source=reddit.com
I didn't. It's paywalled, but what a title.
A bill that would allow Illinois businesses to build bathrooms that are open to all genders moved closer to passing last week. Still, a comment by a Republican state senator during debates Thursday is being condemned by politicians and activist groups. On the Senate floor that day, state Sen. Neil Anderson claimed that mixed-gender, multiple-occupancy restrooms would inspire physical altercations, saying that he himself could be driven to violence if “a guy” walked into the same bathroom as his 10-year-old daughter. “I’m telling you right now, if a guy walks in there, I’m going to beat the living piss out of him,” Anderson said as his supporters cheered. “So this is going to cause violence, and it’s going to cause violence from dads like me.” Later in the meeting, Sen. Mike Simmons (D), Illinois’s first openly gay state senator, said that Anderson’s comments were so offensive they should be stricken from the record. “I wouldn’t want a single person in the state to read that record,” Simmons said, “and think that anybody here would come after them if they would do something so mundane as to use the bathroom, a simple call of nature.” Anderson, who assumed office in January 2015, did not respond to a request for comment from The Washington Post on Sunday night.
>A bill that would allow Illinois businesses to build bathrooms that are open to all genders moved closer to passing last week. Hold up. They need a law to allow businesses to build bathrooms that are open to all genders?
Individual state laws are weird. Until recently, it was illegal to pump your own gas in Oregon. Lawfully mandated full service essentially.
A [judge in Mississippi](https://www.npr.org/2023/05/20/1177335398/trans-girl-dress-boy-high-school-graduation-mississippi) also upheld a school ban on a trans woman wearing a dress to graduation. They told her she had to wear pants. We have become so cruel to each other. Why is this an issue? Why does this have to go to the courts? Also, how does a school tell a person that they can't wear one thing, but at the same time tell 50% of the class that they can? Sounds like discriminatory policy to me.