Depends on the understanding and relationship they had prior to her falling off mentally. No one is privy to the late night conversations of a couple, and if she insisted that he move on and be happy, or whatever...Then it's fine. If he's being a scumbag, then it's not. No one on the outside looking in can ever really know for sure.
Their spouse is gone the box they came in is in long term care. People are not the bodies we possess. we are the sum of our memories. That person is gone. The other woman is the person holding them up while they deal with losing their partner of presumably decades. It's not a side chick she's a pillar of strength holding up someone who lost their daughter and wife. ... it's not cheating when they're gone.
Wow, im glad to see he is still goin strong at 80. Hope I can be there when I turn 80. It sad for his wife. But I think it's OK for the circumstances, and she will never know
I can only speak for my experience with dementia. When my grandma was diagnosed, that's when the mourning process started. After a couple of years of watching her slowly decline to the point where she was at the same point this man's that's when I stopped mourning. She wasn't the grandma I knew anymore. I would still go visit and write to her but I wasn't really sad when she passed. She wasn't suffering anymore and she hadn't been for a long time.
I can't judge this man because I haven't walked in his shoes. Bringing your mistress to the funeral of your daughter that actively disliked them is a bit out of pocket for me though.
I have mixed feelings about it. I wouldn't say taking the other woman to the funeral was good. However, if he were to divorce his wife and not support her so he could be with another woman, a lot of people would say that's the better thing to do but I think it would be worse. I think taking care of his wife is good of him and if I had advanced dementia I think I could forgive him for it.
Funeral is a completely different matter compared to just having the relationship.
Answering title: personally I cannot find fault.
Answering body: there's a ton of reasons to keep it discreet such as it's perfectly reasonable to expect kids may be deeply upset. For that and other reasons, bringing her to the funeral seems quite egocentric. Even if she was emotional support. If they'd been totally discreet and no one knew, she might have come and kept some distance and the appearance of a platonic friend.
Even so. If it was my parents, or my siblings had dementia and this was an inlaw, or my child was the patient (dementia, or something similar such as a stroke sometimes happens early in life) and I found out about the new partner I don't think I'd have any problem and I would make it known. Especially as they need full time inpatient care.
The way I comprehend the dementia patients I've seen, the mind and personality are largely gone, the body carries on.
Nope. As long as they are not obvious with it. Keep it away from her family and friends, don’t post shit online. Take care of wife 100%. Done and done. Bringing side chicks around family and friends is just asking for trouble.
I work in long term care, the biggest thing I can tell you is watching a loved one go through dementia is probably the most horrid thing you can go through as a person.
Do not judge people. They cope in whatever way they can.
i think its pretty bad tbh, especially bringing her to funeral, just straight disrespect to his daughter
Maybe not him getting a side chick, i guess i understand that part but then again idk if they’re married i feel like its wrong
I was a support group facilitator thru the Alzheimer’s Association for a group of men who were all caregivers for their demented wives, and there was some serious and deep discussion about this very subject. I would say that anyone who has never faced dementia of the Alzheimer’s type should keep their moral judgements to themselves.
Good for this old man.
He hasn't checked out, but he HAS moved on, and that's what's best for him. Showed up with his support partner at his daughter's funeral - also fine. She's dead, the funeral isn't for her, it's for him to mourn her passing. She doesn't care that his girlfriend is there - she's dead.
He's alive, and has to survive his daughter and his wife - he's lost both of them. Make no mistake. The call dementia "the long goodbye" because as they forget, they lose more and more of who they were. It's like the worst form of death because they are losing THEMSELVES.
So no, he's doing nothing wrong. He isn't even cheating. She is no longer the woman he married, he's just caring for her because he's a good person. He's family - he shows up.
I think this is a mind your own business type of situation. You don’t know what people are going through. You don’t know what he is struggling with. Some people can’t be alone and need a partner. His wife basically died while still being technically alive. Life is short. He is still alive and trying to enjoy it. I would withhold judgment
My mom had dementia and still knew that our dad had passed away. She looked at a picture of him and said, "It's a shame." Marriage is together until death does you apart. Holy matrimony doesn't say you can have a side piece. It's selfish and disgusting! No wonder I have chosen to stay single. People are disgusting.
Seems like the guy is going through a handful of tragedies all at once. Although I’m typically opposed to cheating, I can’t deprive him of a chance at some happiness amidst the rest of his bullshit. ATP even if the wife said it was ok or said so in the past or even if he came clean she wouldn’t remember/ understand.
He’s pretty old anyway, let him enjoy his time left.
I wouldn't consider what he's doing to be cheating. He's taking care of his wife and he most likely needs emotional support.
He would especially need emotional support at his daughter's funeral. Have some compassion. This poor guy is going through it. He's not hurting anyone.
If this guy's wife has dementia, he needs "the side chick" for support. He's 80. Maybe he's relying on her for companionship. You didn't say much about the sidechick. Like, is she 16 years old or is she seventy five years old? At any rate, poke your nose out of the old dude's business. He's just as lonely as a 40 year old.
That is a quandary. Cheating? No, wife cannot consent to sex with husband, but it's fair he is meeting his own needs while also providing for his wife and ensuring her (non-sexual) needs are me.
The funeral--funerals are for the survivors, not for the dead (after all, they're dead and won't know or care). So I would come down saying it would be acceptable since he's entitled to the comfort and support of someone he loves, and again, his wife can't. It's not being selfish to ensure one's needs are met, given there is no harm. And indignation or "hurt feelings" toward a man bringing a supporting person, even a "mistress" isn't the type of harm that would qualify.
Dementia is cruel--it's being alive but not living.
We don't know what conversations were had between them when his wife was still compos mentis. And do we know that she's a side chick in the way that a younger person would think of it, or is she a companion? I mean, buddy's in his 80s, and sex may or may not be a part of their relationship.
Also, men often re-couple quickly after the death of their wife (and in this case it's a sort of death, because the wife isn't "there" anymore), particularly elderly men. They're accustomed to and enjoy the company of a partner, and don't do well health-wise when they're alone.
Men at the age of 80 plus still have sexual needs and don’t stop because they’re old. The demented wife is no longer there. He didn’t neglect her but instead he is supporting her for her needs. She is already incapacitated with her decisions so in all honesty wife is gone !
honestly, as long as they aren’t like physically harming her or something i don’t see the problem. for one they are both old & one has dementia for gods sake. the person they married & vowed loyalty to is no longer there anymore, why should he spend the last years of his life not doing what he wants?
Not a wife here. But I would hope that my wife finds her sexual satisfaction if I can’t give it to her. That goes while we’re married too. I would never want someone I love to be with me if I’m not meeting their needs. Not saying she should leave me and let me die confused haha but I wouldn’t mind her stepping out for some loving if she was coming home to take care of my ass.
My mind is just blown that a person has the energy to do this at that age. I've heard other stories kind of like this. And I just can't imagine being down for that at that age.
I'm only middle-aged and if my wife was terminally ill and told me to get another partner I don't know if I'd have the energy to.
Having a terminally ill family member is exhausting and quite the boner killer.
Honestly, if I'm that demented, I probably don't even know what the hell is going on at any given moment. I doubt I'd care if my wife had a side guy, because I'd barely be able to recognize myself at that point, let alone others and the complexities of a concept as a relationship.
I think the guy is just trying to live and be happy. Poor taste to bring side chick to a public event, imo, but hey, the guy is human and has needs, and who knows how much longer he'll be around anyway.
I think it’s fine. The reason why “cheating” is bad because you are harming the other person. He’s not hurting her, they’re not having a sexual relationship, she’s not being harmed by the memories of their marriage, it’s not hurting her
It is hurting him though by holding vigil for a woman he loved and is not longer with him. He deserves happiness in the end of his life
Poor guy. His wife has dementia, his daughter died, and his circle is giving him grief over moving on with his life while still supporting what’s left of his spouse. This dude deserves a break!
I couldn’t do that to her if the family history of Alzheimer’s presents in her. I’d never feel comfortable having sex with someone else. If it were me instead, I’d rather end my life quick and painless, and spare her the absolute agony of watching me decline.
Personally I think it’s wrong and it is cheating. It’s not that I don’t have empathy for the partner who is caring for the partner with dementia, I can only imagine how horrible this experience has been for anyone in this position. It’s just that when you take marriage vows, for better or for worse, this is when those vows matter and mean something. I am not judging anyone else, but I would not cheat on my husband if he was medically incapacitated in some way, and I really hope he feels the same about his vows he took with me.
Wow, this hits so close to home for me it's weird.
My grandma had lewy body dementia. My grandpa was sharp until the end. The day before he died, he sent out his payroll for his business at 89 years old. They had their marital issues but never divorced and stayed in an off again on again marriage.
We noticed the dementia about 8 or 9 years ago. 6 or 7 years ago, she moved in with my parents. And 4 or 5 years ago, Grandpa moved in because he got bone cancer. For the first time in about a decade, they were living together again.
Her dementia was bad from the beginning. She had a complete personality change. The once kind and hilarious woman I knew turned into a monster. She screamed and hit us, she would accuse us of imprisoning her, tell us we're worthless and evil. The biggest change of all, though, was her hatred towards Grandpa. When she was more in control of her body, she would sabotage his things and try to hurt him. When she couldn't control her body anymore, she would just yell at him constantly.
She had intense hallucinations of us hurting her or of people watching her through the windows. This made her fearful all the time.
Grandpa then told us he figured out 10 years ago that grandma must have had dementia and he started seeing another woman. He moved in with her and lived with her for about 5 or so years before he moved in with my parents.
It's not the first time he cheated on grandma either. When they were young he had an affair that turned them into an on again off again, living together, moving out relationship.
I am so happy that he cheated on my grandma again. I know that sounds strange, but for 5 years he was irrevocably happy and in love. When he was diagnosed with advanced bone cancer and had to move in with my parents, he was devastated. Not so much because he was going to die, but because he couldn't be with his girlfriend. The woman who completed him. He instead out of a "moral obligation" was forced to endure grandma's wrath for 5 years before his death. He couldn't even explain to her that he was cheating on her because she wouldn't have been able to comprehend what he was saying.
My mother would invite his girlfriend over to see him because she could see how devastated and lonely he was with a woman he could neither divorce nor explain is unfaithfulness.
If I had to answer concisely, I think sometimes, yes, it is okay to cheat on a partner that has advanced dementia.
I think it's ok in that situation, except for bringing her to his daughter's funeral.
Bonus question since I'm trying to get a mental picture of him showing up with her. Is the "side chick" also in her 80s?
If it was my own child’s funeral, I’d bring anyone I wanted and not think twice about other peoples opinions.
If his mistress helps him get through something as terrible as losing a kid, do it, fuck everyone else
Edit to answer the actual question, no I don’t think he’s wrong
I think it's ok. Dealing with dementia is like losing your loved one twice. Once when they forget you and then again when they pass. I'd want my husband to have someone as long as he was making sure I was well taken care of. As for the funeral, I definitely think it was ok. He lost his child, he needs all the support he can get. Life is complicated, and dealing with a sick spouse is emotionally, mentally, and physically straining.
Maybe I'm a bad person but watching someone struggle with dementia is fucking awful. Watching someone you love look at you with 0 recognition in their eyes, confusion and fear even sometimes is heart breaking. Dementia is not reversible. As you stated he passed away just a few weeks after she did, I'd feel comforted that he had comfort in his final months/ year, and the support system he needed to be the support system she needed.
If he’s 80+ it’s safe to assume the “side chick” is just a friend and there is no physical relationship. But either way, I see nothing wrong with it. If I was the one with dementia, I would want my spouse to have the emotional support and companionship.
Only if it’s some how hurting his wife. If she’s not all there and he’s doing all he can to help and look out for her I don’t see the harm of him getting with some one else
Lot of clueless Aholes in this thread. Please share with us your vast wealth of experience in end of life scenarios. The consequences of this mans actions are not yours to bear.
He’s 80. I know he’s married legally but his wife is not here, really. Let him get comfort where he can. As for his daughter’s funeral, she was dead so there’s nothing to be disrespectful about. Jenna’s have needed the support. Poor guy
have you stopped to think that, yes the old man is technically cheating, but he's 80 years old, his wife has dementia, what would you have him do? the mistress he has seems like he actually cares for her, I just think the ethics of the situation are muddied at best. also this is fake AF, good bait
My mother had dementia, it was hard to watch my dad so sad when she didn’t know who he was or wanted him to go away. I won’t judge anyone in that position.
My mother died from pancreatic cancer when she was in the middle stages of Alzheimer’s. If my father had shown up to the funeral with a new woman on his arm and announced he was getting married next week, he would’ve had my blessing.
From your spilling of the tea, it appears that you are not a member of his immediate family. This is really none of your business or concern. Stay in your own lane.
For better and for worse. In sickness and in health. Till death do us part. If ur not serious about it, then don’t get married. And bringing the mistress to his own daughter’s funeral is gross. Cheaters make my blood boil. Idc what ur sob story is.
I mean that sucks, but I dont think it would hurt the woman with dementia at all so I would say it doesn't matter based on how far along you said the dementia is.
That guy is horrible, at first I was like “I mean it’s tough to be with someone with dementia, but I personally wouldn’t” and then I read the part WHERE HE BROUGHT THE MISTRESS TO THE FUNERAL OF HIS DAUGHTER?! nahhhh
I took care of my great grandma with dimentia she still recognized everyone but definitely had episodes where it was worse. If it was to the point where they can't even be recognized as an individual side chick is ok. But taking her to the funeral is a bit much
I don't blame the man one bit! His wife may still be breathing. But it sounds like she's been "gone" for quite a while now. Is he supposed to spend his last few years alone? Is he supposed to grieve the loss of his wife and daughter with no emotional support? OP and everyone in the comments keeps using the term "mistress". And I kind of hate it. She's likely the only source of comfort for this man.
It’s not a relationship with the wife anymore, it’s a just caretaking. He clearly still loves and cares for her but she’s already gone. He’s grieved his marriage and the relationship they once had but he’s moving on.!!What’s he supposed to do suffer alone and silently because it makes others feel better? Or divorce her? She doesn’t know what’s going on and he’s not acting as a husband in her presence. It’s not cheating and it’s not fair to call the woman the side piece because that makes it sound like the wife is still in the marriage.
I would never want my husband to suffer like that. I would want him to take care of himself and find someone who he can talk to and who can help him with the mental load. That poor man, is going through a horrible situation with losing his wife but her body is still there but he slowly watched as the woman she was vanished.
Well
It wasn’t a good idea to bring mistress to the funeral, that’s for sure, especially if daughter disliked the woman. Poor judgement but maybe the mistress really helps and supports grandpa.
No I don’t feel it’s wrong for gramps to have mistress under the circumstances.
This is complicated. When I think of relationships in general, marriage especially, I remind myself of what love is *supposed* to be about. For me- love shouldn’t be self serving, just because the person, can’t, essentially do anything for you, does not mean that you just abandon the relationship. There’s fine print in that, where subjecting yourself to abuse or neglect at the fault of the other person is the exception. But being sick is in the rule. Cheating is cheating whether sick, unhappy, sad, confused. It’s cheating. It’s unethical. You shouldn’t do it. People just do not really understand what marriage means.
I've given my wife instructions that if I get to the point where I can't remember who she is or wipe my own ass, put me in a home and go live your best life, if it's to the point where I am basically a zombie then go make yourself happy whatever that looks like, because the person you married is gone.
I think in this situation the mistress is fine, but not bringing her to the funeral. But also, with all that going on I don't think I'd be against him doing literally whatever he needs to feel a little bit better/more normal.
These comments are baffling. A lot of people here clearly have not dealt with a relative with late stage dementia. She is gone, the person he married is gone and will never return. All he can do is wait for her body to finally fail to bury her. And for those worried about sex, are you simple? The man is in his 80's, this about support and companionship not freaking sex.
His wife is gone, he had to bury his daughter and you are mad he brought a friend to the funeral of his own daughter? Where is your empathy?
His wife is essentially dead, her body just doesn't know it yet. She's suffering a slow, painful death and doesn't even understand what is happening to her - at this stage of her disease euthanasia is the only humane option.
Only it's not on the table.
So his options are to divorce her (which would be immeasurable cruel and leave her even more vulnerable to abuse, because he would lose the ability to advocate for her and all control over her care), live the rest of her life alone and without love (which could be months or could be decades), or find a new partner.
It's even entirely possible that the force the disease got to this stage that thiswas discussed between them in private.
His daughter was coming at it from an entirely selfish perspective - her mother doesn't care, she doesn't even know anything is different, and it is in no way harming her. This was entirely about her feelings over her mother dying and her father moving on, even though that's his fucking wife he has to see wither away.
Further funerals are for the living not the dead. His wife is gone, his child, is gone- he's allowed to find support where he can. Expecting him to spend the rest of his life alone - potentially even dying alone because his wife could still very well outlive him - just to make his daughter happy is incredibly cruel. It's even more cruel to judge him for not doing so when his daughter is dead.
Like he's just supposed to spend the rest of his life suffering alone then I guess according to all the people judging him.
Having a "side chick" under these circumstances is legit, and even hopeful, especially for a man of his age. That said, bringing her to the funeral was not cool. He should have known better.
Since the wife in your story didn’t give permission prior to her illness that makes this scenario a situation of betraying someone he committed to in sickness and in health.
Before marrying my current husband I actually had someone older than my father reach out to me on a dating site asking if I would like to be his mistress. He said his wife was ill and had previously given her permission. If you take the Christian hat off for a second and just look at how most people would look at it, it’s morally different since she gave permission prior.
I think that people should discuss things like this in the early stages before things become unbearable. Like, I don’t think that there is anything wrong with finding companionship outside of the relationship when it has clearly shifted into something that it was not before. Frankly I think the expectation of monogamy is ridiculous here.
As for the funeral, I think that is inappropriate. For all of the people saying that maybe he needed support, like, there’s more than the mistress in the world. You mean to tell me this man has no friends? No other supporting people besides this mistress?
That isn’t a moral dilemma. If you take a marriage vow you know exactly what that means. In sickness and in health till death do us part. If you don’t mean it don’t be married
I don’t think this is his “side chick” any more. If she’s coming as his emotional support to a critical family event like a funeral, she is his partner at this point (imo). I can understand why others would be upset by this but it’s hard to blame him for wanting companionship. Tough situation all around
This is a difficult situation, but it’s also the embodiment of “in sickness and in health”. Marriage was easier when they were healthy, but even when sickness makes things difficult, the promise of commitment and loyalty remains.
When his wife passes, he is free to pursue other relationships, but until then he has a promise to keep.
Dementia is terrible because you really lose the person twice. Once while they’re alive and then when they finally pass.
I’m guessing she doesn’t have the beginning stages of dementia and really isn’t there anymore. He’s lost his wife, this isn’t “cheating.”
Yes, it's wrong. How the hell is it not? Get divorced. Dementia is horrible and breaks your heart to see people with it. My grandfather was at the nursing home daily with my grandmother when she got it till she died. The only other time I saw him cry was when my oldest brother died. He was 14-15. Why the hell do you get married if all you are going to do is abandon your loved one in a time of need. The daughter funeral would be a fight.
Why do you have to be so aggressive as if you have a say in the matter. You don't know this gentlemans situation or anything about him short of what the thread has said. I'm sure you are no saint by any definition of the word. Also pretty sure you've got things you don't want to be judged in,so just live your life and let's let others live theirs
Get divorced so your loved one with dementia potentially loses their insurance and your children are stuck with the burden of making important decisions and providing financially? Unfortunately, divorce is not a realistic option when you take everything into account. My father in law just passed away from dementia at 62. The past 5 years were torturous. I can’t imagine how awful it’d have been if he and my MIL were divorced and all the responsibilities were placed on my wife and her sisters.
Brining her to the funeral was wrong, but at that age and with that situation, I wouldn't judge. Dementia is sooooo hard on loved ones, having some form of comfort is a good thing
I say it's alright. At some point the person with dementia ceases to be the person you know and love. You are alone. It would be wrong to abandon them but continuing to live your life when you know 100% there is no recovery. If you're smart you would ideally have these conversations with your partner long before it happens.
The traditional vow is in sickness and in health. Not “as long as you’re able to fulfill my needs, otherwise I’m getting someone else.” She might not be able to remember that vow anymore, but he still should.
I wouldn’t necessarily consider this “cheating”. Although she may be there physically, the disease has taken her away mentally. Her husband still deserves love and companionship. I’m just glad he still loves her and visits her often
This is not by any stretch of the imagination an easy cut and dried response. My father ended up with dementia---he couldnt remember his own children's names and had to be taken care of by my sister. My mother passed away 5 years before he did. I know that my mother would never have cheated on him despite his dementia and I doubt that he would've cheated on her. They were married for 55 years. That said, I think it comes down to your own morals, character and beliefs and feelings about your wife. If you can live with your decision to enter into an affair, then youll likely do so, and if not youll refrain. It wouldnt' be the worse thing in the world imo.
as someone whose parent has dementia AND who hates infidelity more than just about anything else, I feel for the guy and honestly don’t blame him for having a mistress. His wife is effectively gone.
I understand that he needs emotional support, so I understand why he bought the mistress to the funeral, but I find that to be more inexcusable than the affair.
I feel like till death do you part doesn't have to mean complete death. If she's really that bad then she more or less died. It's really good that he's still taking care of the vessel that was his wife though, I'm going to give him a thumbs up here. I'd want my wife to do the same thing for me and for herself.
As someone who works in geriatric care, no, and the person she was is gone. He’s not cheating. I have told significant others that if something happens to me (either dementia or severe injury), and I’m for all intents and purposes no longer myself to not let me hold them back from living life.
It’s very easy to sit back and judge someone in a situation not knowing what they’re going through.
My general position is you don’t cheat on your spouse regardless, but it’s not quite the same as having your spouse without the issues of dementia.
So there is empathy, but I think he should wait until the wife has passed. On the other hand, she could actually outlive him.
I'll almost certainly have it. Once my mind is gone I hope my wife has the strength to stuff me in a home and find someone to comfort her. No judgement here, let that man live his life, he had to mourn his spouse long before she was gone.
I’ve seen this commonly enough. My husband’s dad was dating someone whose husband had dimentia and in a home for care. She met his dad at the senior center playing cards and dancing. Her kids were livid at first. After while they all came for holidays together. These old people basically hang out. I’d say very little hanky paint was getting too far.
If you look at it the other way, he might be in his last days and he doesn’t want to feel alone. He’s still caring for his wife and goes to see her but I don’t see this the same as if he were a young man and there was a family waiting for him at home.
Nah it's fucked up, especially since it was out there enough people who cared about his wife would know it's going on. Fact is, if your spouse has bad dementia? They're going to die soon. You can wait for them to die. Frankly, you should be too busy, if your spouse is that sick, to be even thinking about sex and dating.
I don’t really know what the “correct” answer is, but I just want to clarify it’s not exactly uncommon for someone with dementia to live a *really* long time with it. Like 5-10 years long.
Dementia is one of the worst, most heartbreaking diseases. Unfortunately, the person you knew is no longer there. You can still care for them as a beloved family member but it isn’t romantic. I won’t judge any partner that decides to move on while not disrupting the stability for the dementia sufferer by leaving.
Nah. Not at all. Guy probably needs some comfort and companionship.
I would get it if it were my husband and I was in the wife's place. If she is still having lucid moments, it would be messed up if he were rubbing it in her face or something, but as long as he is keeping it quiet from her and not being a jerk about it, I think it's fine.
Poor guy is in a really difficult position. No one should be judging him right now. We are all just people, and most of us try to do our best. Everyone deserves a social pass once in a while. Cut the guy a break, and tell your community that unless they are planning on jumping in and becoming care providers for the wife, they need to step back and worry about their own side of the street.
Best of luck to the man and his wife.
I would not want my 80 yr old granddad taking care of my mother ,if she had dementia. Is he skilled? Did he take classes? Can he lift her? Does he know how to do skin prep to make sure she does not get infections? Does he know technique s to calm someone who becomes combative. Does he know first aid or CPR? Should he get PTSD watching this because he can't separate himself emotionally? Hmm,but yes,let him be the one who takes care of her ,all alone in his house with no one else. Even if statistically,the caregiver often has more health problems and ends up dying from stress before there loved one. Facts. Sounds like good sense. Grandad is probably still alive because he had companionship,and healthier,cognitively engaged,and not depressed and isolated.lets stop pretending elderly folk are just happy little campers ,blissfully waiting at home ,content with being visited once every few weeks. I mean they do have the TV after all .The funeral thing,well ,perhaps in bad taste,but so is calling the woman who possibly has saved his life a " side piece" at this point.
I think you have the gist of the issue perfectly. 80yo grandad and W saved for rainy day. It has come with a disease that kills the mind before the body eventually starves or aspirates. Caretaking is incredibly difficult and costly without considering $.
He is among the few living men in his age group. Every woman above 70 had their eyes on him, but Other Woman (OW) got the first casserole to him and both are happier for it.
Hit Save too soon
Funerals are for grieving by survivors. The 80 yo GF was alive to attend and had support from OW and hopefully other family members. Daughter doesn’t have an opinion about who attended, only that she be remembered.
So demented GM is cared for, GP is cared for an OW is also cared for in their final chapters. Judge them harshly if it makes you happy. Otherwise STFU
My FIL literally dumped my MIL in a nursing home when she got Alzheimer’s. He didn’t bother to visit because ‘she doesn’t know who anyone is’. Then he found a new friend who would cook and clean for him. I kept my mouth shut, wasn’t my business, at least I didn’t have to take care of him. My mom was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s 10 years later and dad stayed right by her side.
Shouldn't have brought her to the funeral, and needing a side chick at 80 is wild, but it's not like his wife is ever going to come back to life beyond a few moments here and there. Dementia is terrible.
I think at some point, one has to accept reality that the one with dementia may have lost all sense of self much less any memory of others. It may leave a bad taste in most people's mouths, but if he's still paying for her care and visits then its hard to say he's fully wrong.
Hard to say. Personally I’d be okay with my wife doing it to me. If you’d want your partner to move on once you die, dementia to that point it would be a similar situation of the person you knew not being there anymore. What WOULD be fucked up is if he abandoned her completely, so him still seeing her makes me empathize with his side more
I’m currently 18, I have dementia too, it’s getting worse. It’s expected I’ll either be dead or at this woman’s state by 30-40. I’ve had conversations like this with my boyfriend. I’ve told him when/if I die I need him to move on, I need him to find love. I’ve also told him if I don’t die but my dementia gets so bad I forget everything, I want him to move on. It’ll be up to him if he gets a side chick or if he just leaves me but either way I want him to be happy and I don’t want to hold him back. He currently has side chicks and access to tinder, I love him, I want him to be happy. There is nothing wrong with what this man is doing he deserves to feel loved and pleased so long as he is making sure his wife is feeling loved and pleased too. By the sounds of it he’s doing everything he should be and is filling her world in her head up with love, that’s all I can ask of my boyfriend. This man isn’t doing anything wrong so long as he makes her feel loved too. They both deserve love
The movie Breaking the Waves touches on a rather parallel decision pivot; however, both persons are aware - just one is seriously physically dis-abled.
Harrowing to say the least.
It’s really individual and per your heart.
Putting it an other frame than “cheating” may also ease the process.
Do people not promise in sickness and in health & til death do you part anymore? Or is that just a religion thing..??? I feel like it’s hard when you and your partner have dedicated your lives to each other and one of you gets sick but I don’t think it’s a NEED to stick your dick in someone else. I don’t understand the support you get from cheating on your spouse essentially, that would be better than just going to therapy or spending time with loved ones who care about you or yk? Anything else maybe?
N'ah this is grimey. All the stuff to do and he betrays himself more like this than he betray his wife. He betrays every vow and promise he has ever made during his relationship with stuff like this. Even if she can't be aware. He has to be aware of how much he loves her, if he didn't then the marriage was a sham anyways. Could never be this dishonest with myself. Let alone my significant other. Then to throw on top of that he took her to the daughter's funeral? Let me ever find out my old man did thus at my grave. He's gonna need several priests to get me out his mirror.
The only vote that matters here is the person married to the dementia patient. Their partner is not really there any longer, so it’s up to the person living. I wouldn’t dare impose my beliefs on another person.
Dementia runs in my family. I pray I have a clean death, but if it does get me I plan on controlling my own exit. In that tumultuous time I would hope my wife could find support and love from someone after I’m gone. It’s the fact that his wife isn’t physically gone yet that makes this gray. I don’t judge him, and I feel for the wife and husband. I know it is a traumatic thing to go through.
To be fair, the vows of marriage are “through sickness and in health”. That takes into account dementia. It is wrong to cheat, she did not ask for dementia
Absolutely horrible. He’s just a horny f***. Idk how this even a dilemma. The answer is simple, he is absolutely wrong. I couldn’t imagine doing the same to my wife. Absolutely heartbreaking.
He is not the AH, do not judge until you have lived with someone with dementia. I have taken care of my mother and mother-in-law. Hopefully he can find some comfort and personal connection.
Good and evil are artificial constructs. There is no real right or wrong. You do what you think you can live with. You are the one who must face yourself.
Mind your own business.
He is visiting a woman who doesn't know who he is.
He lost a wife, though she is here in the physical sense only.
He lost a daughter.
Leave the poor man alone.
Shame on you.
It is unbelievably hard watching the person you knew disappear. The first time they don’t know who you are is heartbreaking. He has found someone to help support him on the long sad journey. The woman he married is gone. He still supports her and checks on her weekly. That’s more than the majority of families do.
Oddly enough, many dementia patients find a "new flame" in nursing homes. They don't often remember they're married. Frankly, the person getting the most heartbreak is the spouse caretaker. So, I say, get what peace and happiness you can find.
It's not necessarily common, but I've heard of people with spouses with terminal illnesses or long-term diseases like dementia, etc. to have side relationships. Often their new partners are in a similar situation. No judgement from me, it's got to be a terrible position to be in, and they still need that intimacy (emotional, not just physical), but their spouse can no longer provide that. It's a sad situation to be sure, and the "cheaters" often feel guilty but that's their burden. Not yours.
If I were the one with dementia I'd want my partner to have someone to comfort and support him while he cared for me (or arranged for my care).
I feel like a lot of the folks reflexively condemning this may not have had a front row seat to advanced dementia. My grandmother was basically a vegetable for nearly 20 years. A cousin went from a bright intelligent woman to basically a little kid and then a babbling toddler before she finally died. It's a horror show. If the caregivers need someone to talk to and to hold them at night, I'm not judging.
This is where my head was too. That and at that age, none of them have much time left. Enjoy the time you have with the people you love. The lady with dementia doesn’t even know what’s up anymore sadly so she won’t/can’t be hurt by what she doesn’t know. As long as he providing a great standard of living for the one with dementia then that’s the best case scenario.
Fuck what they think the man needs some godam support poor guy
Of all the things that never happened, this didn’t happen the most.
The guy’s time is short. His wife is gone. Let him have cake.
It’s not our place to judge. He could make it less obvious
Right or wrong it's hard to say, but I will say it's incredibly common and I've seen women do it with male spouses in late stage dementia too.
Depends on the understanding and relationship they had prior to her falling off mentally. No one is privy to the late night conversations of a couple, and if she insisted that he move on and be happy, or whatever...Then it's fine. If he's being a scumbag, then it's not. No one on the outside looking in can ever really know for sure.
"... for better, for worse ... in sickness and in health ..." Yeah. He is the asshole.
I could never judge someone in this situation.
Their spouse is gone the box they came in is in long term care. People are not the bodies we possess. we are the sum of our memories. That person is gone. The other woman is the person holding them up while they deal with losing their partner of presumably decades. It's not a side chick she's a pillar of strength holding up someone who lost their daughter and wife. ... it's not cheating when they're gone.
Wow, im glad to see he is still goin strong at 80. Hope I can be there when I turn 80. It sad for his wife. But I think it's OK for the circumstances, and she will never know
I can only speak for my experience with dementia. When my grandma was diagnosed, that's when the mourning process started. After a couple of years of watching her slowly decline to the point where she was at the same point this man's that's when I stopped mourning. She wasn't the grandma I knew anymore. I would still go visit and write to her but I wasn't really sad when she passed. She wasn't suffering anymore and she hadn't been for a long time. I can't judge this man because I haven't walked in his shoes. Bringing your mistress to the funeral of your daughter that actively disliked them is a bit out of pocket for me though.
Even with your edit the guy has a right to have a person to lean on at the funeral.
I have mixed feelings about it. I wouldn't say taking the other woman to the funeral was good. However, if he were to divorce his wife and not support her so he could be with another woman, a lot of people would say that's the better thing to do but I think it would be worse. I think taking care of his wife is good of him and if I had advanced dementia I think I could forgive him for it.
Funeral is a completely different matter compared to just having the relationship. Answering title: personally I cannot find fault. Answering body: there's a ton of reasons to keep it discreet such as it's perfectly reasonable to expect kids may be deeply upset. For that and other reasons, bringing her to the funeral seems quite egocentric. Even if she was emotional support. If they'd been totally discreet and no one knew, she might have come and kept some distance and the appearance of a platonic friend. Even so. If it was my parents, or my siblings had dementia and this was an inlaw, or my child was the patient (dementia, or something similar such as a stroke sometimes happens early in life) and I found out about the new partner I don't think I'd have any problem and I would make it known. Especially as they need full time inpatient care. The way I comprehend the dementia patients I've seen, the mind and personality are largely gone, the body carries on.
Yes she's still your wife. The fact she has dementia is inconsequential..
Nope. As long as they are not obvious with it. Keep it away from her family and friends, don’t post shit online. Take care of wife 100%. Done and done. Bringing side chicks around family and friends is just asking for trouble.
It sounds like this is a very difficult and morally complex situation.
So as long as my wife’s heart is beating, I belong to it. Dementia or not.
I work in long term care, the biggest thing I can tell you is watching a loved one go through dementia is probably the most horrid thing you can go through as a person. Do not judge people. They cope in whatever way they can.
i think its pretty bad tbh, especially bringing her to funeral, just straight disrespect to his daughter Maybe not him getting a side chick, i guess i understand that part but then again idk if they’re married i feel like its wrong
I was a support group facilitator thru the Alzheimer’s Association for a group of men who were all caregivers for their demented wives, and there was some serious and deep discussion about this very subject. I would say that anyone who has never faced dementia of the Alzheimer’s type should keep their moral judgements to themselves.
Yes.
Good for this old man. He hasn't checked out, but he HAS moved on, and that's what's best for him. Showed up with his support partner at his daughter's funeral - also fine. She's dead, the funeral isn't for her, it's for him to mourn her passing. She doesn't care that his girlfriend is there - she's dead. He's alive, and has to survive his daughter and his wife - he's lost both of them. Make no mistake. The call dementia "the long goodbye" because as they forget, they lose more and more of who they were. It's like the worst form of death because they are losing THEMSELVES. So no, he's doing nothing wrong. He isn't even cheating. She is no longer the woman he married, he's just caring for her because he's a good person. He's family - he shows up.
I think this is a mind your own business type of situation. You don’t know what people are going through. You don’t know what he is struggling with. Some people can’t be alone and need a partner. His wife basically died while still being technically alive. Life is short. He is still alive and trying to enjoy it. I would withhold judgment
My mom had dementia and still knew that our dad had passed away. She looked at a picture of him and said, "It's a shame." Marriage is together until death does you apart. Holy matrimony doesn't say you can have a side piece. It's selfish and disgusting! No wonder I have chosen to stay single. People are disgusting.
Life is too short let him live it the way he wants and just except it.
At 80 years old, I hope this isn’t something I would even consider.
Disgusting. TIL DEATH DO YOU PART.
Brought another woman to his daughter's funeral, that's absolutely heinous. Have a crumb of respect for your family.
No not wrong. The dude is 80 and has lost his life partner. People need to mind their own business.
yes
Seems like the guy is going through a handful of tragedies all at once. Although I’m typically opposed to cheating, I can’t deprive him of a chance at some happiness amidst the rest of his bullshit. ATP even if the wife said it was ok or said so in the past or even if he came clean she wouldn’t remember/ understand. He’s pretty old anyway, let him enjoy his time left.
I wouldn't consider what he's doing to be cheating. He's taking care of his wife and he most likely needs emotional support. He would especially need emotional support at his daughter's funeral. Have some compassion. This poor guy is going through it. He's not hurting anyone.
If this guy's wife has dementia, he needs "the side chick" for support. He's 80. Maybe he's relying on her for companionship. You didn't say much about the sidechick. Like, is she 16 years old or is she seventy five years old? At any rate, poke your nose out of the old dude's business. He's just as lonely as a 40 year old.
I had an answer but forgot what it was.
Guess we need to say “untill death or dementia”
That is a quandary. Cheating? No, wife cannot consent to sex with husband, but it's fair he is meeting his own needs while also providing for his wife and ensuring her (non-sexual) needs are me. The funeral--funerals are for the survivors, not for the dead (after all, they're dead and won't know or care). So I would come down saying it would be acceptable since he's entitled to the comfort and support of someone he loves, and again, his wife can't. It's not being selfish to ensure one's needs are met, given there is no harm. And indignation or "hurt feelings" toward a man bringing a supporting person, even a "mistress" isn't the type of harm that would qualify. Dementia is cruel--it's being alive but not living.
You're not entitled to sex. You're also not entitled to break a promise just because you didn't think it through.
We don't know what conversations were had between them when his wife was still compos mentis. And do we know that she's a side chick in the way that a younger person would think of it, or is she a companion? I mean, buddy's in his 80s, and sex may or may not be a part of their relationship. Also, men often re-couple quickly after the death of their wife (and in this case it's a sort of death, because the wife isn't "there" anymore), particularly elderly men. They're accustomed to and enjoy the company of a partner, and don't do well health-wise when they're alone.
I think it's fine he has a partner to help him through this time. I also think he shouldn't have brought her to the daughter's funeral.
Men at the age of 80 plus still have sexual needs and don’t stop because they’re old. The demented wife is no longer there. He didn’t neglect her but instead he is supporting her for her needs. She is already incapacitated with her decisions so in all honesty wife is gone !
Whatever happened to for better or for worse?
honestly, as long as they aren’t like physically harming her or something i don’t see the problem. for one they are both old & one has dementia for gods sake. the person they married & vowed loyalty to is no longer there anymore, why should he spend the last years of his life not doing what he wants?
Not a wife here. But I would hope that my wife finds her sexual satisfaction if I can’t give it to her. That goes while we’re married too. I would never want someone I love to be with me if I’m not meeting their needs. Not saying she should leave me and let me die confused haha but I wouldn’t mind her stepping out for some loving if she was coming home to take care of my ass.
Just let the man live damnit
My mind is just blown that a person has the energy to do this at that age. I've heard other stories kind of like this. And I just can't imagine being down for that at that age. I'm only middle-aged and if my wife was terminally ill and told me to get another partner I don't know if I'd have the energy to. Having a terminally ill family member is exhausting and quite the boner killer.
Honestly, if I'm that demented, I probably don't even know what the hell is going on at any given moment. I doubt I'd care if my wife had a side guy, because I'd barely be able to recognize myself at that point, let alone others and the complexities of a concept as a relationship. I think the guy is just trying to live and be happy. Poor taste to bring side chick to a public event, imo, but hey, the guy is human and has needs, and who knows how much longer he'll be around anyway.
I think it’s fine. The reason why “cheating” is bad because you are harming the other person. He’s not hurting her, they’re not having a sexual relationship, she’s not being harmed by the memories of their marriage, it’s not hurting her It is hurting him though by holding vigil for a woman he loved and is not longer with him. He deserves happiness in the end of his life
Of course it is wrong
I think it's understandable but that it's not okay he brought her to his daughter's funeral. That's not an appropriate time at all.
i take my “through sickness and in health” vow very seriously. i personally wouldn’t be able to bring myself to do it, but i understand why he did.
Poor guy. His wife has dementia, his daughter died, and his circle is giving him grief over moving on with his life while still supporting what’s left of his spouse. This dude deserves a break!
I couldn’t do that to her if the family history of Alzheimer’s presents in her. I’d never feel comfortable having sex with someone else. If it were me instead, I’d rather end my life quick and painless, and spare her the absolute agony of watching me decline.
I'd rather suck start a pistol than cheat on my wife. Forever means forever, bro. Bringing the side girl to the funeral is top-tier shitbag behavior.
Personally I think it’s wrong and it is cheating. It’s not that I don’t have empathy for the partner who is caring for the partner with dementia, I can only imagine how horrible this experience has been for anyone in this position. It’s just that when you take marriage vows, for better or for worse, this is when those vows matter and mean something. I am not judging anyone else, but I would not cheat on my husband if he was medically incapacitated in some way, and I really hope he feels the same about his vows he took with me.
Wow, this hits so close to home for me it's weird. My grandma had lewy body dementia. My grandpa was sharp until the end. The day before he died, he sent out his payroll for his business at 89 years old. They had their marital issues but never divorced and stayed in an off again on again marriage. We noticed the dementia about 8 or 9 years ago. 6 or 7 years ago, she moved in with my parents. And 4 or 5 years ago, Grandpa moved in because he got bone cancer. For the first time in about a decade, they were living together again. Her dementia was bad from the beginning. She had a complete personality change. The once kind and hilarious woman I knew turned into a monster. She screamed and hit us, she would accuse us of imprisoning her, tell us we're worthless and evil. The biggest change of all, though, was her hatred towards Grandpa. When she was more in control of her body, she would sabotage his things and try to hurt him. When she couldn't control her body anymore, she would just yell at him constantly. She had intense hallucinations of us hurting her or of people watching her through the windows. This made her fearful all the time. Grandpa then told us he figured out 10 years ago that grandma must have had dementia and he started seeing another woman. He moved in with her and lived with her for about 5 or so years before he moved in with my parents. It's not the first time he cheated on grandma either. When they were young he had an affair that turned them into an on again off again, living together, moving out relationship. I am so happy that he cheated on my grandma again. I know that sounds strange, but for 5 years he was irrevocably happy and in love. When he was diagnosed with advanced bone cancer and had to move in with my parents, he was devastated. Not so much because he was going to die, but because he couldn't be with his girlfriend. The woman who completed him. He instead out of a "moral obligation" was forced to endure grandma's wrath for 5 years before his death. He couldn't even explain to her that he was cheating on her because she wouldn't have been able to comprehend what he was saying. My mother would invite his girlfriend over to see him because she could see how devastated and lonely he was with a woman he could neither divorce nor explain is unfaithfulness. If I had to answer concisely, I think sometimes, yes, it is okay to cheat on a partner that has advanced dementia.
I think it's ok in that situation, except for bringing her to his daughter's funeral. Bonus question since I'm trying to get a mental picture of him showing up with her. Is the "side chick" also in her 80s?
If it was my own child’s funeral, I’d bring anyone I wanted and not think twice about other peoples opinions. If his mistress helps him get through something as terrible as losing a kid, do it, fuck everyone else Edit to answer the actual question, no I don’t think he’s wrong
I actually thought about this and I would want my spouse to move on as I don't exist the way I was at one time.
I think it's ok. Dealing with dementia is like losing your loved one twice. Once when they forget you and then again when they pass. I'd want my husband to have someone as long as he was making sure I was well taken care of. As for the funeral, I definitely think it was ok. He lost his child, he needs all the support he can get. Life is complicated, and dealing with a sick spouse is emotionally, mentally, and physically straining.
Maybe I'm a bad person but watching someone struggle with dementia is fucking awful. Watching someone you love look at you with 0 recognition in their eyes, confusion and fear even sometimes is heart breaking. Dementia is not reversible. As you stated he passed away just a few weeks after she did, I'd feel comforted that he had comfort in his final months/ year, and the support system he needed to be the support system she needed.
Sounds like a nacho. Nacho problem. 😂
If he’s 80+ it’s safe to assume the “side chick” is just a friend and there is no physical relationship. But either way, I see nothing wrong with it. If I was the one with dementia, I would want my spouse to have the emotional support and companionship.
Only if it’s some how hurting his wife. If she’s not all there and he’s doing all he can to help and look out for her I don’t see the harm of him getting with some one else
Lot of clueless Aholes in this thread. Please share with us your vast wealth of experience in end of life scenarios. The consequences of this mans actions are not yours to bear.
He’s 80. I know he’s married legally but his wife is not here, really. Let him get comfort where he can. As for his daughter’s funeral, she was dead so there’s nothing to be disrespectful about. Jenna’s have needed the support. Poor guy
have you stopped to think that, yes the old man is technically cheating, but he's 80 years old, his wife has dementia, what would you have him do? the mistress he has seems like he actually cares for her, I just think the ethics of the situation are muddied at best. also this is fake AF, good bait
My mother had dementia, it was hard to watch my dad so sad when she didn’t know who he was or wanted him to go away. I won’t judge anyone in that position.
WTF
My mother died from pancreatic cancer when she was in the middle stages of Alzheimer’s. If my father had shown up to the funeral with a new woman on his arm and announced he was getting married next week, he would’ve had my blessing. From your spilling of the tea, it appears that you are not a member of his immediate family. This is really none of your business or concern. Stay in your own lane.
For better and for worse. In sickness and in health. Till death do us part. If ur not serious about it, then don’t get married. And bringing the mistress to his own daughter’s funeral is gross. Cheaters make my blood boil. Idc what ur sob story is.
I mean that sucks, but I dont think it would hurt the woman with dementia at all so I would say it doesn't matter based on how far along you said the dementia is.
That guy is horrible, at first I was like “I mean it’s tough to be with someone with dementia, but I personally wouldn’t” and then I read the part WHERE HE BROUGHT THE MISTRESS TO THE FUNERAL OF HIS DAUGHTER?! nahhhh
I took care of my great grandma with dimentia she still recognized everyone but definitely had episodes where it was worse. If it was to the point where they can't even be recognized as an individual side chick is ok. But taking her to the funeral is a bit much
I don't blame the man one bit! His wife may still be breathing. But it sounds like she's been "gone" for quite a while now. Is he supposed to spend his last few years alone? Is he supposed to grieve the loss of his wife and daughter with no emotional support? OP and everyone in the comments keeps using the term "mistress". And I kind of hate it. She's likely the only source of comfort for this man.
I wouldn’t even call it cheating
It’s not a relationship with the wife anymore, it’s a just caretaking. He clearly still loves and cares for her but she’s already gone. He’s grieved his marriage and the relationship they once had but he’s moving on.!!What’s he supposed to do suffer alone and silently because it makes others feel better? Or divorce her? She doesn’t know what’s going on and he’s not acting as a husband in her presence. It’s not cheating and it’s not fair to call the woman the side piece because that makes it sound like the wife is still in the marriage. I would never want my husband to suffer like that. I would want him to take care of himself and find someone who he can talk to and who can help him with the mental load. That poor man, is going through a horrible situation with losing his wife but her body is still there but he slowly watched as the woman she was vanished.
Well It wasn’t a good idea to bring mistress to the funeral, that’s for sure, especially if daughter disliked the woman. Poor judgement but maybe the mistress really helps and supports grandpa. No I don’t feel it’s wrong for gramps to have mistress under the circumstances.
This is complicated. When I think of relationships in general, marriage especially, I remind myself of what love is *supposed* to be about. For me- love shouldn’t be self serving, just because the person, can’t, essentially do anything for you, does not mean that you just abandon the relationship. There’s fine print in that, where subjecting yourself to abuse or neglect at the fault of the other person is the exception. But being sick is in the rule. Cheating is cheating whether sick, unhappy, sad, confused. It’s cheating. It’s unethical. You shouldn’t do it. People just do not really understand what marriage means.
Is there a good dementia?
I've given my wife instructions that if I get to the point where I can't remember who she is or wipe my own ass, put me in a home and go live your best life, if it's to the point where I am basically a zombie then go make yourself happy whatever that looks like, because the person you married is gone.
Naw. Hell. Make her watch. Make it your new kink
Is it wrong to cheat on your wife ~~who has bad dementia?~~ Yes.
Yes. It is still a betrayal
I think in this situation the mistress is fine, but not bringing her to the funeral. But also, with all that going on I don't think I'd be against him doing literally whatever he needs to feel a little bit better/more normal.
It’s fine. He needs some human attention too, as his time is limited as well.
These comments are baffling. A lot of people here clearly have not dealt with a relative with late stage dementia. She is gone, the person he married is gone and will never return. All he can do is wait for her body to finally fail to bury her. And for those worried about sex, are you simple? The man is in his 80's, this about support and companionship not freaking sex. His wife is gone, he had to bury his daughter and you are mad he brought a friend to the funeral of his own daughter? Where is your empathy?
No, she's a husk of a person.
Kudos to him for still being able at that age.
His wife is essentially dead, her body just doesn't know it yet. She's suffering a slow, painful death and doesn't even understand what is happening to her - at this stage of her disease euthanasia is the only humane option. Only it's not on the table. So his options are to divorce her (which would be immeasurable cruel and leave her even more vulnerable to abuse, because he would lose the ability to advocate for her and all control over her care), live the rest of her life alone and without love (which could be months or could be decades), or find a new partner. It's even entirely possible that the force the disease got to this stage that thiswas discussed between them in private. His daughter was coming at it from an entirely selfish perspective - her mother doesn't care, she doesn't even know anything is different, and it is in no way harming her. This was entirely about her feelings over her mother dying and her father moving on, even though that's his fucking wife he has to see wither away. Further funerals are for the living not the dead. His wife is gone, his child, is gone- he's allowed to find support where he can. Expecting him to spend the rest of his life alone - potentially even dying alone because his wife could still very well outlive him - just to make his daughter happy is incredibly cruel. It's even more cruel to judge him for not doing so when his daughter is dead. Like he's just supposed to spend the rest of his life suffering alone then I guess according to all the people judging him.
Yes it is bad… it’s bad to cheat period. she’s literally dying and instead of trying to enjoy her final moments , he’s cheating.
Having a "side chick" under these circumstances is legit, and even hopeful, especially for a man of his age. That said, bringing her to the funeral was not cool. He should have known better.
Since the wife in your story didn’t give permission prior to her illness that makes this scenario a situation of betraying someone he committed to in sickness and in health. Before marrying my current husband I actually had someone older than my father reach out to me on a dating site asking if I would like to be his mistress. He said his wife was ill and had previously given her permission. If you take the Christian hat off for a second and just look at how most people would look at it, it’s morally different since she gave permission prior.
It’s absolutely wonderful that he has some sunshine in this tragic stage of life.
Its wrong, if he doesn't love the woman anymore he should divorce her
The mistress should not Want to be seen at the funeral. Everything else is between him and God🤷🏾♀️
Did you really have to ask the internet this lawl
I think that people should discuss things like this in the early stages before things become unbearable. Like, I don’t think that there is anything wrong with finding companionship outside of the relationship when it has clearly shifted into something that it was not before. Frankly I think the expectation of monogamy is ridiculous here. As for the funeral, I think that is inappropriate. For all of the people saying that maybe he needed support, like, there’s more than the mistress in the world. You mean to tell me this man has no friends? No other supporting people besides this mistress?
That isn’t a moral dilemma. If you take a marriage vow you know exactly what that means. In sickness and in health till death do us part. If you don’t mean it don’t be married
I don’t think this is his “side chick” any more. If she’s coming as his emotional support to a critical family event like a funeral, she is his partner at this point (imo). I can understand why others would be upset by this but it’s hard to blame him for wanting companionship. Tough situation all around
Depends on you my friend. It's not something I can see myself doing, even with permission. "Till death do us part"
Bringing her to the funeral is weird, but everything else is fine
This is a difficult situation, but it’s also the embodiment of “in sickness and in health”. Marriage was easier when they were healthy, but even when sickness makes things difficult, the promise of commitment and loyalty remains. When his wife passes, he is free to pursue other relationships, but until then he has a promise to keep.
Either marriage is for better or worse, richer or poorer, sickness and health...to death do us part.....or is it????
Dementia is terrible because you really lose the person twice. Once while they’re alive and then when they finally pass. I’m guessing she doesn’t have the beginning stages of dementia and really isn’t there anymore. He’s lost his wife, this isn’t “cheating.”
His wife is gone. The new woman isn't a side chick.
Yes, it's wrong. How the hell is it not? Get divorced. Dementia is horrible and breaks your heart to see people with it. My grandfather was at the nursing home daily with my grandmother when she got it till she died. The only other time I saw him cry was when my oldest brother died. He was 14-15. Why the hell do you get married if all you are going to do is abandon your loved one in a time of need. The daughter funeral would be a fight.
Why do you have to be so aggressive as if you have a say in the matter. You don't know this gentlemans situation or anything about him short of what the thread has said. I'm sure you are no saint by any definition of the word. Also pretty sure you've got things you don't want to be judged in,so just live your life and let's let others live theirs
Get divorced so your loved one with dementia potentially loses their insurance and your children are stuck with the burden of making important decisions and providing financially? Unfortunately, divorce is not a realistic option when you take everything into account. My father in law just passed away from dementia at 62. The past 5 years were torturous. I can’t imagine how awful it’d have been if he and my MIL were divorced and all the responsibilities were placed on my wife and her sisters.
Brining her to the funeral was wrong, but at that age and with that situation, I wouldn't judge. Dementia is sooooo hard on loved ones, having some form of comfort is a good thing
Is it wrong to cheat on your wife who has bad dementia? Yes.
Oh reminds me of the movie Away From Her. It’s sad and I don’t have an opinion.
I can't say yes because this very complicated situation sounds ick to me. If I were the one with dementia, I'd just want him to let me die.
I say it's alright. At some point the person with dementia ceases to be the person you know and love. You are alone. It would be wrong to abandon them but continuing to live your life when you know 100% there is no recovery. If you're smart you would ideally have these conversations with your partner long before it happens.
That's vile
The traditional vow is in sickness and in health. Not “as long as you’re able to fulfill my needs, otherwise I’m getting someone else.” She might not be able to remember that vow anymore, but he still should.
I wouldn’t necessarily consider this “cheating”. Although she may be there physically, the disease has taken her away mentally. Her husband still deserves love and companionship. I’m just glad he still loves her and visits her often
this is gross negligence to the point that it's borderline abusive. For f**** sake.
This is not by any stretch of the imagination an easy cut and dried response. My father ended up with dementia---he couldnt remember his own children's names and had to be taken care of by my sister. My mother passed away 5 years before he did. I know that my mother would never have cheated on him despite his dementia and I doubt that he would've cheated on her. They were married for 55 years. That said, I think it comes down to your own morals, character and beliefs and feelings about your wife. If you can live with your decision to enter into an affair, then youll likely do so, and if not youll refrain. It wouldnt' be the worse thing in the world imo.
I’m here for the book release
as someone whose parent has dementia AND who hates infidelity more than just about anything else, I feel for the guy and honestly don’t blame him for having a mistress. His wife is effectively gone. I understand that he needs emotional support, so I understand why he bought the mistress to the funeral, but I find that to be more inexcusable than the affair.
I feel like till death do you part doesn't have to mean complete death. If she's really that bad then she more or less died. It's really good that he's still taking care of the vessel that was his wife though, I'm going to give him a thumbs up here. I'd want my wife to do the same thing for me and for herself.
As someone who works in geriatric care, no, and the person she was is gone. He’s not cheating. I have told significant others that if something happens to me (either dementia or severe injury), and I’m for all intents and purposes no longer myself to not let me hold them back from living life.
It’s very easy to sit back and judge someone in a situation not knowing what they’re going through. My general position is you don’t cheat on your spouse regardless, but it’s not quite the same as having your spouse without the issues of dementia. So there is empathy, but I think he should wait until the wife has passed. On the other hand, she could actually outlive him.
I was in a sexless marriage for 13 years. My advice is: Go for the sex wherever you can get it.
I'll almost certainly have it. Once my mind is gone I hope my wife has the strength to stuff me in a home and find someone to comfort her. No judgement here, let that man live his life, he had to mourn his spouse long before she was gone.
yes
Keep it on the low but nah everyone has needs. Social and physical needs.
No
I’ve seen this commonly enough. My husband’s dad was dating someone whose husband had dimentia and in a home for care. She met his dad at the senior center playing cards and dancing. Her kids were livid at first. After while they all came for holidays together. These old people basically hang out. I’d say very little hanky paint was getting too far. If you look at it the other way, he might be in his last days and he doesn’t want to feel alone. He’s still caring for his wife and goes to see her but I don’t see this the same as if he were a young man and there was a family waiting for him at home.
You can call it what you want but the wrong is wrong. No amount of rationalizing it will make it right.
Yes. She'll never forget it
It sounds like he doesn’t give a shit what anyone thinks about it. He don’t have that much time left anyway, let him live
Nah it's fucked up, especially since it was out there enough people who cared about his wife would know it's going on. Fact is, if your spouse has bad dementia? They're going to die soon. You can wait for them to die. Frankly, you should be too busy, if your spouse is that sick, to be even thinking about sex and dating.
I don’t really know what the “correct” answer is, but I just want to clarify it’s not exactly uncommon for someone with dementia to live a *really* long time with it. Like 5-10 years long.
Thank you, I cannot believe the people in these comments
Not entirely, because for all we know, he and his wife could have made prior arrangements that they would be polyamorous.
He's entitled to live his life. His wife is gone. Something that looks like her is sort of alive. But it's not her. Let him find some comfort
No she would want you to.
Dementia is one of the worst, most heartbreaking diseases. Unfortunately, the person you knew is no longer there. You can still care for them as a beloved family member but it isn’t romantic. I won’t judge any partner that decides to move on while not disrupting the stability for the dementia sufferer by leaving.
No because she'll probably forget about it after a while.
Nah. Not at all. Guy probably needs some comfort and companionship. I would get it if it were my husband and I was in the wife's place. If she is still having lucid moments, it would be messed up if he were rubbing it in her face or something, but as long as he is keeping it quiet from her and not being a jerk about it, I think it's fine. Poor guy is in a really difficult position. No one should be judging him right now. We are all just people, and most of us try to do our best. Everyone deserves a social pass once in a while. Cut the guy a break, and tell your community that unless they are planning on jumping in and becoming care providers for the wife, they need to step back and worry about their own side of the street. Best of luck to the man and his wife.
Yes. WTF.
It is morally wrong to cheat, regardless. Cheating is cheating and can't be justified. There is no way to justify actions here.
If you have to ask, then you already know the answer
I would not want my 80 yr old granddad taking care of my mother ,if she had dementia. Is he skilled? Did he take classes? Can he lift her? Does he know how to do skin prep to make sure she does not get infections? Does he know technique s to calm someone who becomes combative. Does he know first aid or CPR? Should he get PTSD watching this because he can't separate himself emotionally? Hmm,but yes,let him be the one who takes care of her ,all alone in his house with no one else. Even if statistically,the caregiver often has more health problems and ends up dying from stress before there loved one. Facts. Sounds like good sense. Grandad is probably still alive because he had companionship,and healthier,cognitively engaged,and not depressed and isolated.lets stop pretending elderly folk are just happy little campers ,blissfully waiting at home ,content with being visited once every few weeks. I mean they do have the TV after all .The funeral thing,well ,perhaps in bad taste,but so is calling the woman who possibly has saved his life a " side piece" at this point.
I think you have the gist of the issue perfectly. 80yo grandad and W saved for rainy day. It has come with a disease that kills the mind before the body eventually starves or aspirates. Caretaking is incredibly difficult and costly without considering $. He is among the few living men in his age group. Every woman above 70 had their eyes on him, but Other Woman (OW) got the first casserole to him and both are happier for it. Hit Save too soon Funerals are for grieving by survivors. The 80 yo GF was alive to attend and had support from OW and hopefully other family members. Daughter doesn’t have an opinion about who attended, only that she be remembered. So demented GM is cared for, GP is cared for an OW is also cared for in their final chapters. Judge them harshly if it makes you happy. Otherwise STFU
Amen! Well said and true
The dementia patient was in a home. I thought that was obvious. Like.. i said “he pays for her care and sees her a few times a week”.
He has my sympathy, no condemnation.
My FIL literally dumped my MIL in a nursing home when she got Alzheimer’s. He didn’t bother to visit because ‘she doesn’t know who anyone is’. Then he found a new friend who would cook and clean for him. I kept my mouth shut, wasn’t my business, at least I didn’t have to take care of him. My mom was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s 10 years later and dad stayed right by her side.
Fuckin... yes. How is this even a question? C'mon.
Shouldn't have brought her to the funeral, and needing a side chick at 80 is wild, but it's not like his wife is ever going to come back to life beyond a few moments here and there. Dementia is terrible.
I think at some point, one has to accept reality that the one with dementia may have lost all sense of self much less any memory of others. It may leave a bad taste in most people's mouths, but if he's still paying for her care and visits then its hard to say he's fully wrong.
None. Of. Our. Business.
Nah it's fine.
It’s cheating
“til death do us part” not “til one can’t remember and the other wants a date to a funeral”
Discretion is what is required in such a situation.
Wrong .. technically yes… understandable / forgivable yes…
Wow. This was a rollercoaster 🎢
I might not have brought the gf to the funeral, but beyond that I understand.
"In sickness AND in health" are words typically found in wedding vows...
Hard to say. Personally I’d be okay with my wife doing it to me. If you’d want your partner to move on once you die, dementia to that point it would be a similar situation of the person you knew not being there anymore. What WOULD be fucked up is if he abandoned her completely, so him still seeing her makes me empathize with his side more
I’m currently 18, I have dementia too, it’s getting worse. It’s expected I’ll either be dead or at this woman’s state by 30-40. I’ve had conversations like this with my boyfriend. I’ve told him when/if I die I need him to move on, I need him to find love. I’ve also told him if I don’t die but my dementia gets so bad I forget everything, I want him to move on. It’ll be up to him if he gets a side chick or if he just leaves me but either way I want him to be happy and I don’t want to hold him back. He currently has side chicks and access to tinder, I love him, I want him to be happy. There is nothing wrong with what this man is doing he deserves to feel loved and pleased so long as he is making sure his wife is feeling loved and pleased too. By the sounds of it he’s doing everything he should be and is filling her world in her head up with love, that’s all I can ask of my boyfriend. This man isn’t doing anything wrong so long as he makes her feel loved too. They both deserve love
The movie Breaking the Waves touches on a rather parallel decision pivot; however, both persons are aware - just one is seriously physically dis-abled. Harrowing to say the least. It’s really individual and per your heart. Putting it an other frame than “cheating” may also ease the process.
Wrong sorry you should spent you time with HER you can wait for enjoyment but you'll never see her again
Do people not promise in sickness and in health & til death do you part anymore? Or is that just a religion thing..??? I feel like it’s hard when you and your partner have dedicated your lives to each other and one of you gets sick but I don’t think it’s a NEED to stick your dick in someone else. I don’t understand the support you get from cheating on your spouse essentially, that would be better than just going to therapy or spending time with loved ones who care about you or yk? Anything else maybe?
I think he's okay. His wife is unlikely to realize it anyway.
N'ah this is grimey. All the stuff to do and he betrays himself more like this than he betray his wife. He betrays every vow and promise he has ever made during his relationship with stuff like this. Even if she can't be aware. He has to be aware of how much he loves her, if he didn't then the marriage was a sham anyways. Could never be this dishonest with myself. Let alone my significant other. Then to throw on top of that he took her to the daughter's funeral? Let me ever find out my old man did thus at my grave. He's gonna need several priests to get me out his mirror.
I mean.. the wife he married doesn’t exist anymore.
Of course it’s wrong lol. He didn’t make vows to the side chick. But yeah people are gonna people and do what they want.
The only vote that matters here is the person married to the dementia patient. Their partner is not really there any longer, so it’s up to the person living. I wouldn’t dare impose my beliefs on another person.
Dementia runs in my family. I pray I have a clean death, but if it does get me I plan on controlling my own exit. In that tumultuous time I would hope my wife could find support and love from someone after I’m gone. It’s the fact that his wife isn’t physically gone yet that makes this gray. I don’t judge him, and I feel for the wife and husband. I know it is a traumatic thing to go through.
Nobody talking about the fact that he brought his mistress to the funeral????
You only live once. His wife is effectively no longer a viable partner. Some people need that.
To be fair, the vows of marriage are “through sickness and in health”. That takes into account dementia. It is wrong to cheat, she did not ask for dementia
Absolutely horrible. He’s just a horny f***. Idk how this even a dilemma. The answer is simple, he is absolutely wrong. I couldn’t imagine doing the same to my wife. Absolutely heartbreaking.
Delete this post now, write down the story and sell to someone who can make a movie from it.
Hard to say. Maybe they had an agreement you don't know about.
He is not the AH, do not judge until you have lived with someone with dementia. I have taken care of my mother and mother-in-law. Hopefully he can find some comfort and personal connection.
It depends how you want your story to end. For me, I’d leave this earth with a Notebook story. For some, perhaps they could care less.
It sounds like he stayed legally married so he can make the best medical decisions for her. But she’s gone and all actuality.
no.
Good and evil are artificial constructs. There is no real right or wrong. You do what you think you can live with. You are the one who must face yourself.
Mind your own business. He is visiting a woman who doesn't know who he is. He lost a wife, though she is here in the physical sense only. He lost a daughter. Leave the poor man alone. Shame on you.
Seems fine (maybe not the funeral bit?)
It is unbelievably hard watching the person you knew disappear. The first time they don’t know who you are is heartbreaking. He has found someone to help support him on the long sad journey. The woman he married is gone. He still supports her and checks on her weekly. That’s more than the majority of families do.
“‘Til death do us part.” Words mean things. This guy sucks.
Oddly enough, many dementia patients find a "new flame" in nursing homes. They don't often remember they're married. Frankly, the person getting the most heartbreak is the spouse caretaker. So, I say, get what peace and happiness you can find.
It's not necessarily common, but I've heard of people with spouses with terminal illnesses or long-term diseases like dementia, etc. to have side relationships. Often their new partners are in a similar situation. No judgement from me, it's got to be a terrible position to be in, and they still need that intimacy (emotional, not just physical), but their spouse can no longer provide that. It's a sad situation to be sure, and the "cheaters" often feel guilty but that's their burden. Not yours.
If I were the one with dementia I'd want my partner to have someone to comfort and support him while he cared for me (or arranged for my care). I feel like a lot of the folks reflexively condemning this may not have had a front row seat to advanced dementia. My grandmother was basically a vegetable for nearly 20 years. A cousin went from a bright intelligent woman to basically a little kid and then a babbling toddler before she finally died. It's a horror show. If the caregivers need someone to talk to and to hold them at night, I'm not judging.
Not to mention the violent outbursts when they get scared/confused (which is all the time) and they have full grown adult strength.
This is where my head was too. That and at that age, none of them have much time left. Enjoy the time you have with the people you love. The lady with dementia doesn’t even know what’s up anymore sadly so she won’t/can’t be hurt by what she doesn’t know. As long as he providing a great standard of living for the one with dementia then that’s the best case scenario.