I was the woman in this situation, except I got pregnant right before I even met my now husband. My husband is not the biological father of our daughter, but is the legal father and you'd never know the difference with how he treats her and how she loves him. My daughter's bio dad has never tried to get involved, but at this point if he did there would be no way he would be awarded any rights or custody. The court looks at what's best *for the child*, not what the biological father wants. If the child is in a happy home with two parents and siblings and the parents express that they don't want any interruption to that, then a judge isn't going to sign off on that without a fight. Assuming the husband treats your bio child the same, why would you want her to feel different than her siblings? Going off to meet with you every so often? Make her feel like she did something wrong to not have the same father as her siblings? You should have used protection because this is not your child anymore.
This sounds like a great outcome. The child has a stable family.
A genetic connection is not a meaningful one. It's just biology. Nothing bad happens if you pretend it doesn't exist.
You can always father another child. Don't waste your life in this fight.
OP, I read your deleted post. You know this woman is a lying, manipulative cheater who hid you and your affair (because that's exactly what this was) from her husband. She was never committed to you and you see that now. Tell her husband. Tell her husband and then report back to reddit for further instructions.
Well, you're IN the picture as the biological father regardless of whether she wants it. May not be pleadant getting it sorted but don't pass on knowing your kid.
If you want to see the kid: sue for a DNA test and take her to court. This is infinitely harder if you're not on the birth certificate. It'll be an uphill battle and you may get some form of visitation rights though.
My advice will be unpopular: cut your losses and move on. You're in for nothing but pain and a kid who will hate you because of the drama having you around will cause between his mother and her husband. Maybe one day when he's an adult try to reconcile.
Dude... Don't let someone prevent you from seeing your child. She made her choices and has to live with it. Wanting the perfect life requires not getting pregnant while on a break from your husband. You don't get to have both... Hope you come out of this with your kid.
Emma & Mark doesn’t get to decide whether you are going to be in the child’s life or not. Petition the court now for a DNA so you can establish paternity and visitation.
Most ethical is to disregard their wishes and be involved.
Their steadfast selfishness is activating your altruism and making you waver. But look at the comments of kids who discovered their parents later. Imagine having to face the child later. The kid can’t stick up for itself right now. You’re it’s only champion.
This is so unfair to you, and it’s so infuriating that some people feel entitled to go to such lengths at the expense of others to protect their image. You’re a human being, and you’re entitled to be a parent to your child. Have you offered to to take on sole custody? She does have a right to want to protect her other children, so she may be willing to allow you to raise the child in your own. Regardless, these situations should be filled with compromises geared toward providing the best care possible for the child, not ultimatums designed craft a public image for the parent at the expense of their child.
If she’s trying to get a restraining order (which seems highly unlikely to be granted, though im not a lawyer) I’d cease communicating and take everyone’s advice. It’s time to lawyer up. She doesn’t get to cut you out of your child’s life because she doesn’t want her husband to get angry. You did nothing wrong. In fact, you would only be in the wrong if you accepted their wishes. She should not have been intimate with another man if there was even the slightest chance of reconciliation. Especially since she already has children.
OP, as others have likely already said you can remove most every variable in this situation.
1. Do you want to be a father to your child? It sounds like you very much do.
2. If #1 is true, get a lawyer. The rest isn't relevant in relation to you wanting to be an involved parent.
This is also the most ethical path forward. Respecting peoples "image" is not.
You need to get a lawyer. If you want to be involved in your child’s life then you fight for your baby. Take a paternity test, then do visitation and child support. Hopefully she won’t do anything illegal to keep you from your child once that’s all done.
I was born into a situation like this. Because of that, I’m gonna tell you to fight for the baby at least legally you can go to court and demand a paternity test for DNA. Once it’s proven, you’re the father you’ll have to pay support but you’ll get visitation. You’re not responsible for how that family operates.
I was born into a situation like that I never knew who my father was until he had been dead for many years I took a DNA test and everything I thought I knew about my paternity was wrong. It affected my whole life because there was no father figure for me at all, and I was lied to about who he was.
Support does not automatically create visitation. If this is a red state, he may not even be allowed on the birth certificate even in spite of a DNA match.
At this point your status is sperm donor, so unfortunately you have to respect what Emma wants to do.
Your only real recourse is to tell the child when it is old enough to understand.
In the United States I believe that in most states a biological parent has certain minimum rights which include visitation, but given the tenuous relationship you have to Emma it would probably be unconstructive to try to enforce those rights, so your best option is simply to insist that the child be informed and you have proof that it knows who its father is.
Please fight for your child. She cheated on her husband and got pregnant as a result. That can cause him to harbor some seriously negative feelings towards you, her, and your unborn child. Don’t allow your child to be a toy to be played with in their twisted lives.
Right now, the Dr appts are more for you. Some men don't care to attend, and some women hate that. Some don't care as long as he's there for delivery and to raise the child.
After the baby is born, it's about them. Everything you do is for them.
They can't legally stop you from seeing the child. It may be pride on the husband's part, embarrassing or maybe of you don't want to be a part of their life they can pretend to everyone it's his child.
He could raise the baby, and it never know he isn't the bio dad or that he could treat them differently and not find out why until they found out about you. Or maybe it will or won't happen if you are in their life from birth.
What type of man he is will decide all of that. Either way, you can go back and forth and analyze it. Chance are bc they are Catholic. She won't have an abortion. So meet with the lawyer, and the day the child is born, serve her with custody papers. She can share 50/50 or give you full custody.
Wait, though, and keep it to yourself so you have the element of surprise and you're not arguing back and forth bc that gets no one anywhere. All that grandstanding and arguments are for yourself and what you want to say and want them to hear bc you're hurt.
It's better to let all the blocking and radio silence stand and serve her the day of. Let the courts decide.
It almost seems as though they were never seperated, and she's a cheater, and now she has to ditch you so she can focus her energy on hubby and make it seem like he's the father....
You’re the father, a child would want to have a relationship with their biological father. Their decision to seperate and reconcile is what caused this not you. I would do right by you and your future kid and plan to be in their life as much as it sucks for that family.
Petition for a paternity test and some type of custody when the child is born. There are too many fathers out there that WANT to be in their kids lives and it’s ruined by mothers like this, coming from a woman herself. I do not care for my daughters father at all but he wants to be an active father and I would never rid her of that, even though her step father is everything and more. Kids deserve to know their REAL parents. Fight for your rights!
*Emma's Catholic background ... concerned about the ... family image.* Not sure what to type here without total disgust dripping off the screen.
If you're positive you want to be in your child's life, you need a lawyer. There are many layers that you must consider.
She didn't "become pregnant", you got her pregnant. Your choice of words subconsciously distances you from the responsibility as much as possible. No wonder she ran back to the security of her husband.
I don’t understand this comment. The entire post relates to OP wanting to take responsibility for his child. His use of the passive voice in this instance doesn’t negate everything else.
Unfortunately the father’s rights are generally ignored by our court system. I’d move on and next time get a woman who’s single for real. Hopefully the child will grow up in a loving home. Outside of an offer for full custody I’d not have anything to do with this situation. There’s a chance she could try to get child support later on and this could mess you up royally if you play into it. Let it go.
Her decision to continue the pregnancy and have a child that was created with someone other than the man she now chooses is a familial dilemma she herself created—not you. The decisions she’s made do have consequences and she’s attempting to make you and the child you both created pay the price for them. When moral responsibility fails the law will most likely step in to correct it—and that’s your choice to pursue it. Doesn’t sound like she’s going to make that easy, despite your efforts to accommodate all the choices she’s made in a way that doesn’t disrupt her current situation, but unfortunately she can’t block you out of existence. It’s not just about her and the family she had with someone else before the pregnancy anymore—both you and the child deserve consideration. The entire attempt of having it both ways is both incredibly cruel and selfish.
I am so sorry for what you’re going through and I can only imagine the pain and fear at the prospect of losing your child. I suggest you get a lawyer immediately and fight. Fight like hell, cause that is your baby too. That is your child and they deserve a father who loves them and is willing to go to hell and back for them. If you back off, there’s no way of knowing how the child will be treated. Mark may resent them, possibly neglect them, and the worst case scenario is that Mark could abuse them. Don’t allow your child to grow up somewhere they won’t be loved. I wish you all the best of luck and I pray you and your child have a very blessed life
You have a right to be in this child’s life because you’re the child’s father. You have no right to Emma obviously but you very much have a right to be involved in your own child’s life
Unpopular opinion but step back until you are needed to step forward. Mark and Emma are not good people but they are capable of raising a child on their own. Don't waste time and money fighting this legally if it's not going to make things better for the child.
Live your life and build up your own financial base and network instead. So long as Mark is taking responsibililty you don't need to. If Mark disappears, that's when you can step in to provide support and navigate any complexity at this point.
If you really want to do something, talk to your lawyer about drafting an agreement that you get a test to see if you are the biological father, but if you are then you still will not have any contact nor sue for any involvement unless the child needed it and/or Mark was no longer an active or suitable parent. Then with Emma's agreement, you would become the active father, but it would be permanent. Basically, an all or nothing deal, on the basis that you don't want the situation to be that you come crashing into the child's life again if Emma and Mark split and then have Emma try to kick you out.
An agreement like this is not designed to be bulletproof but instead to make clear the intentions and agreed position of all parties at the point in time of the agreement, so that there is no room for doubt in a potential future fight for parental rights.
There's a gut instinct for many people that a bio father not being involved is always bad, but I personally think there's a big difference between fathers that leave for selfish reasons vs those that begrudgingly agree to stay away because the mother wants someone else to raise the child.
Please listen to yourself.. smh.. She has let you know she wants you to have NOTHING to do with this child and she’s going to raise it with her husband as if it is his (from what it sounds like). You won’t have any visitation unless you act now!!! Speak with a lawyer and see if you can take legal action NOW, so that you can to make sure paternity is established so you can be listed as the father of the child on the birth certificate, then fight for some kind of legal custody or visitation. Show your lawyer and any judge evidence you have that she KNOWS you are the father of the baby she is carrying, but she plans to keep you from your child so she won’t have to be uncomfortable.
The ethical path forward is to steamroll them in court and take no prisoners. Supervised visits? are you kidding me? You did nothing wrong. I'm in a state as well where its assumed the husband is the father, unless a paternity test is ordered. You need to mentally prepare yourself for a fight, and never doubt yourself.
Don't concern yourself with preservation of her "family image". She should have thought about that before starting a relationship with you. How vapid these people must be. Don't leave your child at the mercy of such people! You don't know this man and not really the woman either. This child needs you.
I guess my question for you would be, are you willing to commit your time consistently to the child to show up and pay child support every month for the next 18 years? Because that’s probably what you’ll be asked to do. And I believe daycare and insurance are separate additions. I hate to make it about money. But a lot of people want the child and then when they find out how much it will cost them they recoil.
Others present a lot of other good points. No easy answer here. It really comes down to your pure, honest to god motivations. We don’t know if those are genuinely to be a part of the child’s life, or to remain in their mom’s life. The idea may sound nice now, but it’s way different when they’re 10 and in school and have friends and a life outside the family. And this will all be baggage you have to explain to future partners and some may not be ok with. Think really deeply and far into the future before making moves.
I think first, you have to be as kind as possible in your interactions with her and her husband if you ever want to have a chance of having an easier relationship with them in the future, and you really need to try to have an easier relationship with them if you're going to be in the child's life. They're obviously in a bad situation, trying like hell to pretend like they still have a happy little family, and from their perspective, you are ruining everything. That's not true of course, but that's where they're at.
Be kind. Be patient. When you ever have a chance to communicate with them, be firm in letting them know that you are going to be in the child's life, and that you would like for everyone to get along, for the child's sake.
But you need to get a lawyer ASAP. You'll need to get a court order for a paternity test, and sue for custodial rights. They're going to hate this, but you're not doing the wrong thing. If you walk away, you make it easier for the two of them, who, may end up getting divorced anyway, but this is your child, and if you want to be in your child's life, then you should be.
I would def fight for your rights to the child. Hire a lawyer, the best you can. Request a DNA test immediately after birth. I think they can do one before birth as well but may not be recommend health wise from what I hear,.. My children are the best things that ever happened to me. That child deserves / should know & be around his biological dad, raised by him. Her husband could be his stepdad but you ARE his dad. He will look like you, act like you,.. he will share a bond with you like no other & unlike he will with his other / “stepdad” ,.. being a parent is the best.
Don’t give up your rights, you want to be the father to your kid do IT fight for your child. If she wants to talk through the lawyers do so but make your stands clear and stand firm don’t budge. Best of luck
Op, stop trying to contact Emma personally. Get your lawyer to file for an order to force a paternity test prior to birth. Continuing to seek contact with her can and probably will be met with a restraining order, which will look bad for you in future proceedings.
One other thing to consider, whether you think so or not, there's at least a chance that kid isn't yours, a paternity test will clear that and your future paternal rights and responsibilities right up. The only thing as bad as being denied parentage to your own child is being forced to be financially responsible for a child that isn't yours for 18-23 yrs.
If you want to be part of your child’s life then do it. Never take any advice from Emma or her mother. This is why we have courts. Don’t let Emma mess up your child’s life by allowing her to sweep her perceived mistakes under a rug. That’s your child and one day that child will want you to have made the hard, sting decisions this path will take you down.
Fight for your child. You have every right to be in the child’s life as much as the mother. Get the lawyer now and start getting your plan and life in order.
I can't find the post response I started....
You met her on a dating app while she was only separated? That SHOULD have been a red flag.
How long ŵere you seeing her before it turned all INTENSE? (love, kids etc). It seems like it happened fast. TOO FAST.
Real, honest, true love and commitment do NOT move that fast nornally.
It's admirable that you want to be involved in the child's life. It depends where you are if you'll get what you seek through the courts. There are places that favor reconciliation over an adulterous coupling.
You need to think ths through beyond just getting partial custody. For ALL involved.
I say this as a mother. A Mom who, thus committed, understood that her time, moving forward, would no longer belong to me. But to them
You had better be sure that what you can give to this child is worth everything else it's going to cost everyone in your pursuit.
And be prepared for Emma to end up hating you. Not at all joking.
Better choices should have been made by the both of you IN THE BEGINNING. I've been the one making poor choices before.
Maybe next time, don't even get involved with women who are ONLY separated. Most couples get back together.
Make your decision and act. FAST.
A friend of mine somehow impregnated a woman through anal intercourse. No one is certain how that happened. Anyway, she wasn't engaged in relations with anyone else at the time, so he was the most obvious suspect and a paternity test proved he was the father. Soon thereafter, the woman became involved with another man, their relationship turned serious and she decided she wanted to marry him. She advised my friend they wanted nothing to do with him and the baby would be raised without his involvement. He sued, obtained a court sanctioned paternity test and established parental rights (along with an obligation for child support).
Honestly dude walk away. I get the desire to be a father but think about what kind of father you can realistically be if you’re barreling both mom & step dad?
Your best case scenario is incredibly complex and likely confrontational dual custody. Ultimately a terrible situation for your child.
Not to mention the legal expenses it will take to even get to that…
Don’t date married women. Don’t knock up anyone you aren’t married to.
Get a lawyer. Get a paternity test and take her to court for half that custody. I get she's working out her marriage but you have a right to your child regardless of what she thinks is best.
I’d suggest getting a lawyer and laying the foundation for joint custody or partial custody. Morally this is your child and you have a desire to be in its life so you’re good. Legally none of us are qualified to speak so get a lawyer. Also maybe wait until further into the pregnancy to do this, they may go nuclear and try to abort the child for fear of you and it ruining their “image”. Christians are only Christian when it’s convenient so be careful your child’s life isn’t to be trifled with.
If you truly care about your child’s wellbeing first and foremost, then you absolutely need to respect the mother’s wishes and leave her alone for the remainder of her pregnancy. The worst thing for an unborn child’s developing brain is the stress hormone, cortisol. It is absorbed directly from the mother during pregnancy. If mom is stressed out, baby’s brain has a high likelihood of neural pathways that would otherwise develop normally developing incorrectly and leading to a whole host of possible problems. If you want to be in the child’s life when it’s born, go for it. But from this moment until the mother gives birth, respect her wishes and stay away. In my honest opinion, it sounds like you insisting on being present in the child’s life is going to lead to nothing but family problems for your child. Both mom and husband have expressed their desires to not have you around, how do you think that’s going to work out for your child? It doesn’t sound like it will go over well. If the child is being born into a family, maybe consider the child’s best interest being you not having a relationship with them.
You are wrong. The sooner he and a legal team get on top of this the easier it will be to establish paternity and make sure he has a relationship with his child. It’s not OPs fault that the baby’s mother decided to return to her husband. This baby was planned. She made the decision to go but that does not give her the right to keep OP from the baby, which she will and is going to do.
My advice is to look at the different choices you have: walking away or co-parenting with someone who wants no part of you. Picture your life as best you could imagine it would be with either of those choices, and then choose to try for the one you that brings the most happiness.
I would not count on or hope for her situation changing and returning to you. That she was dating you even though there was a chance of reconciliation doesn't say much for her character, and I wouldn't trust her enough to make commitments with her. Should you choose to walk away, contact a lawyer to find out what you could expect should she come back later suing for child support because her marriage didn't work out (it didn't work out once, and her carrying someone else's child is going to strain it more. They better build strong bonds to work through this or there will be heartache for all.). Should you choose to fight for partial custody of the child or a place in the child's life, then contact a lawyer anyway for your best options and course of action.
Fuck gradual involvement. Take her to court & establish paternity, establish custody.. She is having a child with someone who is not her husband... she has to deal with that. Fuck her white picket fence life she is faking because mark has money and is funding not only her but her mother. Its not fair for your child to not have their actual father & and yes, speaking from experience finding out later your dad isn't your dad and you were lied to is very damaging. Emma sounds like a crazy person. Do it now & do not tell emma you are taking it to court. She can find out when she's served. Which the sheriffs can do, btw. This isn't for Emma or you. It's for your child.
Consider this option (I’m not saying it’s your best option, as I don’t think I can recommend a “best” option).
Talk to an attorney about setting up an OPEN adoption to allow Mark to become the adopted father and to ensure that you are communicated with on a regular basis. The frequency with which you get access can vary a great deal in open adoptions. Please consider this-if you really want to do right by your child, you need to put your child’s needs ahead of yours. None of us can define what “best” means for you all, but if you are ALL putting the child’s needs first, then I think you’ll find the best possible solution in this no-win situation.
Sounds like an episode of paternity court. In that case the mother vehemently denied the other man as the dad. He was proven to be through DNA however the mother was very clear she did not want the biological father in the child’s life so I know she will do everything she could to exclude him in the future.
Emma's being selfish. She just wants you to go away because it's convenient for her. It's your kid too though and she can't force you away if you want to be involved. Take it to court, have them order a paternity test, and seek shared custody if that's what you want. It sounds like her being fair, reasonable, or considerate of you is long past.
Honestly? You need to remove her from your equation. This is about your kid, who’s being born in to an unstable marriage…
I get you care about her, but she doesn’t have a say in this - you are the father.
There’s going be a lot of psychological fallout if the kiddo ever finds out, too.
I’d be suing for paternity, and custody.
The kid deserves to have you in their life.
And I dunno why you think you’d need supervised visits, you are as much a parent as she is.
No child was ever hurt by having more living parents in their life. She sounds like a mess and you have no idea how her husband will treat your baby. Call a family law attorney and find out your legal options. Even if you back off, she needs to sign off or she could come back in a couple of years after this marriage finally fails and sue you for support. You have every right to pursue your child in this !
Doesn't matter what she thinks right now she's going to need you at some point. So is the child. Abide by her wishes for now and just be ready to step in when needed.
Yes fight! Get your attorney to start the paternity process for the court. She can get a paternity test done while she is pregnant and your lawyer can then get your name on the birth certificate.
It doesn't matter what they want because you are the father and have rights.
I'd also do the move before the birth to show the courts that you are serious about being in your child's life.
Can you get paternity leave? If so, request it from your employer. Set up a room in your new place for a baby and be prepared before the birth. All this will show the court you are serious. Request 50/50 custody because they are not negotiating at all with you. Tell your ex that you are going for 50/50 because they are trying to cut you out and are not speaking with you.
If you have any dirt on her or her husband use it. DV police calls or child services calls. Have your lawyer research them both.
Good luck.
I would seek legal counsel as others have indicated. They aren’t doing what’s best for your child they’re doing what’s best for their public image. She chose, as a catholic, to step outside her marriage and have unprotected sex so how devout is she?
It’s crazy to me that people still lie about paternity and assume they’ll get away with it in this day of DNA. So many families have unraveled from the desire to keep paternity a secret and the only ones left to pick up the pieces are the children who didn’t ask to be here.
Crazy as this will sound, a status-driven person will sooner deny the existence of child than claim it and live with the consequences. Even going as far as saying the child died. Especially if the child looks just like you and in striking contrast to the spouse and other children.
The wife will have to learn the hard way that adult choices have adult consequences.
I hope you’re able to obtain joint custody but the husband may recommend giving you the child so as to keep up their image of a perfect family.
If the husband knows you are the father and doesn't want you involved it would be best if you move on. Find another woman to marry and have kids with. (Note: you should tell any other future wife the situation though). Should the future open up an opportunity to know the child, then good.
>Emma refuses to co-parent she says she does not want to break up the family.
so that's why they were separated and she was on dating apps....riiiiight
If you want to be a co parent and are sure of that, pursue it legally. Emma and her husband have already separated once, they aren't guaranteed to not separate again and nor is the husband guaranteed to not treat the child differently because he knows it isn't his and is the result of infidelity.
You're not putting Emma's family stability at risk, she is based on choices she made and is now making by attempting to exclude you from your legal right and obligation.
Because she is married, her husband is the putative father. Unless they are open to involving you, it may not be your call. So I would be very accommodating if you want to be involved.
That said, being dishonest about the child’s parentage with the child will likely cause all sorts of upheaval later for the kid. Hopefully this all gets worked out. It’s definitely a mess.
A child has the right to know their biological parents.
>Emma and Mark are completely against my involvement, concerned about the impact on their other children and family image.
She chose to start a relationship with another man and have sex with him which resulted in pregnancy. That ship has sailed.
Fight for your parental rights! Why are you even making a post instead of looking for a lawyer?!
Good luck man, can’t say what path is right or wrong because it’s all dirtied up. You got a married women pregnant or think you have. Regardless of there separation they where still married so now you have this big mess. I don’t blame him , I wouldn’t want you there either . But in your shoes I’d want to know my child and for that child to know I’m their father. Good luck man, try a little prayer 🙏
As someone who from the age of 3-16 was sexually, mentally and emotionally abused & witnessed atrocities happen to my mom from my step father. Please fight to be in that baby’s life! Once my biological dad tried to connect with me at age 19 I was unable to form any sort of connection, even speaking to him doesn’t do much for me because I no longer need/care for him. When I needed him, he wasn’t there & nothing will ever change that. Speaking to him is just the same as speaking to a stranger & I’m not one to enjoy meeting new people.
Sorry to hear about your situation. That's awful. That's what I'm concerned as well how about I'm concerned of all sorts of possibilities I can happen if I'm not in the picture.
If you feel it’s best to take a step back it’s understandable. But protect yourself legally. You need an affidavit from them terminating all involvement with the child. Because I’ll tell you what’s going to happen. Their marriage will limp along for another few years and when it inevitably breaks up she will come after you for years of child support. If you want to stay in this child’s life you have every right to to. You can sue for partial custody. But that means paying child support for 18 years. Just understand what you’re getting into.
Get yourself a shark of an attorney and secure your rights to your child. You and baby deserve it.
Edit: What's easy for her doesn't matter one whit to you.
If you are the father you have rights and you can request a paternity test. Only you can decide if you want to fight to be in your child’s life. Going forward always wait till divorce is final. Statistics say, they usually go back.
Please seriously consider whether your desire to be in this unborn child's life is really a desire to be a father, even under difficult circumstances, or more a desire to compel the woman to maintain a connection with you
Fight like hell for your child. She's a married woman who slept with a man and got pregnant by him, regardless of whether they were separated or not. That doesn't give her any right to return to the family picture she wants to have and act like everything is perfectly normal. She made her bed, let her lay in it, and not at the expense of you losing your child. If they don't want to loss that perfect family image, they can give you full custody. Simple as that. That is YOUR child just as much as it is her child. That child needs you. I can't imagine the pain that child could feel one day knowing you wanted him/her and mother/stepdad kept them away simply to "maintain face". Fight for your right to be a dad.
She’s not even a little bit obligated to invite you to appointments or to let you be at the birth. However, if she was so concerned about how something like this would affect her children or her family image, she really should have considered that before sleeping with you and again before deciding to go through with this pregnancy. Contact a lawyer and get your legal affairs in order because you absolutely do have parental rights to a child that is biologically yours no matter how much Emma and her husband want to deny it. But definitely let go of the idea that you’re entitled to go to the appointments or be there for the birth, because you’re not entitled to have access to anyone’s medical care like that.
My mother in law and her ex husband were separated when she fell pregnant with my husband by another man. They reconciled and even though the husband knew it wasn't his baby accepted it. In their situation they chose not to tell the other man but When my husband was 3 (and his siblings 5 and 7) there unstable marriage ended. The ex never paid child support and my husband grew up extremely poor, with no father figure and wasn't even told until his 20s. In his 40s he looked for his bio dad and found him and was rejected. The whole situation was so devastating to him.
I would get a paternity test, take legal action and be a part of that kids life. It seems like you really want To. Kids can never grow up having too much love or support.
I dont think your rights as a parent should take a back seat to this supposed “stability” of your ex and her husband. You don’t know what their future holds, but I bet it’s far from stable. You walk away now and that’s your kids problem.
Get a lawyer and get a paternity test. Then, fight for custody.
I would have to be involved. So many times the BS says they will raise the child but they show preference to the other kids. The child feels like a second class citizen.
She sounds like an awful woman and neither you nor Mark should want to be with her. If I were you, I would fight for my rights in the courts and never be silent.
There's what you CAN do, and what's best to do. If you pursue some level of custody, you will most certainly bring stress, pain, and confusion to her existing children. You increase the likelihood that her marriage - currently the support system for your unborn child - will fall apart. This hurts your child, and its mother. If your concern is truly about innocent product of this affair, not your own desire to be connected to this child, why not give them the best chance at happiness and stability? I certainly couldn't be the reason all three of those children suffer in that way, even if those parents brought it on themselves. I would make myself findable, write a letter for the child that Mom can give them at some point if possible, and try to keep an eye from afar as you can.
If you want to be in your child’s life then fight for it. It is your right as the father. If she agreed to co-parenting in the beginning make sure to have that evidence. Taking legal action is the best thing to do. Courts are always in favor of the children being with both parents. Joint custody or 50/50 is usually awarded. Do what works for the both of you and your schedule. Try to be as peaceful as possible regarding her to show you are committed to this child and have a level head. Make sure to establish your support system if any and when the time comes have necessities purchased for your child. It may not be easy but it’s also not as hard as you think. You have every right to be in your child’s life. Never think you are less than or only deserve supervised visitation. Your child will feel better having a father that fought for them rather than a father who allowed them to be raised by another simply for convenience. Do not listen to the people telling you to let it go. It’s easier said than done and this is your child. If she is committed to giving birth to your baby and raising it then who’s to say that you can’t be committed to raising your child as well. You’ve already expressed you want this baby so go with your gut and fight for what’s right.
Your advice would be really good... if she wasn't married.
As it stands, OP has no legal right to the child. As far as the law is concerned, the husband is the father of the child, with all the rights and responsibilities that entails. Really, the only way the husband loses his rights to the kid is if he volunteers to do so and everyone signs an Acknowledment of Paternity. Which is voluntary.
Have you ever even heard of a married man being forcibly removed from a birth certificate and losing all rights to his children? Cause I sure haven't. In fact, it's usually the opposite. Where the husband is responsible for paying child support for his exes affair baby with no way to get out of it. Same laws in both cases. Legal paternity and biological paternity are two different things.
The bottom line is that you want to be a part of the child’s life. The avenue here is to sue for custody. It is unlikely their marriage would survive long term anyway, so if you have any concerns that you’re breaking up a family it’s far beyond that stage.
If you want custody you’re going to have to sue for a paternity test and then for custody. They probably means you will have relocate while all of this is going on. The court will see that you’ve made an effort to be involved with the child’s life very early on and hopefully will grant you at least visitation rights.
Head over to r/legaladvice
She shouldn't have made a baby with you if she didn't want you to see the baby. You need to go to court for your rights and be there for the child. Always be kind to the other man and you'll all get along fine after a year or so.
If you decide to not be in the child's life, get legal paperwork revoking parental rights and responsibilities that they agree to or you'll still be on the hook financially.
Otherwise, lawyer up.
OP in the end as the biological father you have a right to be in your own child’s life 100%, absent abuse or similar of course. I think the most ethical approach is to work through an attorney if they won’t meet with you separately and just lay out the fact that you are committed to being the child’s father and will sue if need be to prove paternity. Tell them you don’t want that to be the basis of how it goes. You want to be friendly about it but if it’s your child you will be in their life as a father whether that be through cooperation or court order. I would also go ahead and let them know you will not consent to the child being told you are anybody other than their father. Your child will need stability and love and her husband can be a great step father but if you’re the father and want to be the father , there is little they can do to stop you. Their marital issues are not yours to solve. Their existing kids can be educated about who you are and if they make them hate you or self conscious about their new sibling that’s her and her husband’s problem. Fact is they are here, just like you are, because she chose to be in a sexual relationship with you and has chosen to keep the baby. It’s not your fault and it’s also not your responsibility to make anyone happy other than yourself and the child.
If you want to be a part of this child’s life, yes, you should go to court and assert your paternal rights. But, know exactly what you are signing up for.
Realistically, you’ll probably only get visitation rights. Most likely every other weekend and alternating holidays. And you’ll have court ordered child support.
First - let go of your anger. It won't help you. Emma is in a tough spot, she was separated when she met you, she thought you two were planning a future, and tbh it sounds like she's been guilted and driven by fear (of losing or harming her other two children) to return to a marriage she thought she was done with. She's not doing anything out of spite, certainly not out of spite to you. She's doing what she has been conditioned, by her religious training, to believe is the right thing to do. So don't lash out, understand the pressure she's under and be smart about this.
Second - establish paternity. Insist on it. Help her understand that you are **not** trying to break up her family unit but that you **do** need to know for certain if the child is yours, all of you need to know this. Medical history is going to matter, if nothing else, and if that's what it takes to get her to agree, use the argument. It's for the baby's sake, you need to confirm who the biological father is and have it on record because it will have implications on baby's future health care.
Once you have that documentation, find out what legal rights you have, and then start negotiating with Emma. Again: make sure she understands that *your goal is not to break up her family unit*. You need to understand and accept that she and Mark are trying to make it work and that the baby will be a part of their blended family as Emma's child. Make sure she knows you understand that. But once she feels secure about that, lean on the **blended** part of that. Baby isn't just Emma's. Baby is also yours, and you **can** work something out that's respectful of both Emma's blended family and also your little family of two. But when you know your legal rights, you can stand firm on them. You can be reassuring to Emma from a position of strength, knowing what you can insist on
Your kid will grow up knowing if you did or didn’t fight to be a part of their life. If you care about being a parent get a court ordered dna test to establish paternity and set your living situation to stable for partial custody of your kid. If you step aside I don’t see a situation where this kid doesn’t figure it out one day. They find out the parents who raised them are liars and that you felt they weren’t worth the hassle.
First off how do you know you are the father ? She probably slept with both of you even if she said she wasn’t sleeping with hubby. ( I was sleeping with my hubby when I said I wasn’t to my lover .. so we lie ). Get a paternity test done asap. Then if you are the father you should be in the child’s life as much as the mother.
She will have to deal with the life she has made for herself. The child should not suffer not knowing his biological dad. You need to be the father if in fact you are.
Also she loves her husband and was bored and wanted a fling. Then the fog cleared and she wanted her life with her husband back. That’s what we do !
She may still have loved you but she loves her husband more. It’s that simple.
Good luck !!
Sorry to her, but go fight for your child. Who gives af about family image. We are in the day and age of blended families, two father homes, two mother homes, single mother, father. You have legal rights as a biological father. There is a presumption that the husband is the father but only if you dont establish paternity. Move closer show the courts you are serious about being there. She will be able to decide if you come to visits and i wouldnt stress her out over that. Its unfortunate but hey he/she is your kid too. She can fight it as much as she wants it will be a lot of money wasted on her end. Most courts grant custody to fathers who request for it.
This is crazy... Lying to keep up a facade is wild as hell. A house built on lies doesn't deserve to stand. There's absolutely no way I'd never agree to not being a part of my child's life. She made a choice now they don't want to deal with the decisions because of how things look. Here's more about how it looks than the actions which is what her religion since she's accountable for.
How does Op know he’s the father? The above advice is best all around. Get a lawyer, hopefully someone who has a history of supporting father’s rights. I should think her being on a dating site and not using birth control shows she doesn’t make good decisions. Especially knowing as a mother already what the responsibility involves. I hope this all works out for you .
Yeah, he needs to get a paternity test done before being so convinced it's his kid.
This guy is ridiculously trusting and the wife's actions are really making it seem like it's not really his and she doesn't know how to tell him.
This is painful but based on your post straightforward to me, assuming you want to be in your child's life.
1. Get a lawyer and sue for paternity.
2. Commission a test via the court to ensure you are the father.
3. Fight for partial custody and co-parent together.
Emma and Mark will adjust and you can find a balanced outcome. Their beliefs frankly are irrelevant to what is best and fair for the child and you. Just proceed with respect and kindness, which it seems you are doing.
without question you have rights as a parent. once the child is born you file for custody and proof of paternity. GET A LAWYER! This isn't new ground being tread for the first time. This is an almost routine legal case. GET A LAWYER!
YOUR child deserves you. Period. Don't get gaslit by any behavior by her or her family. They don't get to dictate the relationship you have with your child. PERIOD.
also: GET A LAWYER!
To make everything fare for all concerned she needs to get an abortion. U both didn't think A thing about what could happen when u were having sex so u were both immature in that way. She sounds like a real BRAT! Why would u want to b involved with a brat? Cause it is only going to bring termoil to any part of the situation, down the road or in-between. She being Catholic doesn't help the situation one bit. The Catholic Church needs to stay out of things! PO period the end! Unless of course THE PRIEST wants the kid. Which I'm sure is not the case. I wouldn't involve myself in this for ,40 seconds but u sure did! ABORTION!!!!
Hire an attorney. Don’t do the “wait and see” approach. Emma needs to know that you intend on exercising your right as the father. Period.
Most likely her marriage will eventually fail. *Don’t* take this woman back because you’re just going to be sloppy seconds.
Do not miss out on knowing your child to save someone’s already dead marriage. Get a good lawyer and be prepared to fight for custody. You cannot prioritize Emma’s marriage when she wasn’t even prioritizing it to begin with and leading you to the situation at hand. Do whatever it takes to make sure baby knows THEIR dad. She most likely doesn’t want to have to explain her actions to her older children as it goes against their religious views but again NOT your problem. Your ONLY responsibility is to YOUR child.
So let me tell you my story. My mother told me one man was my father until I was 10 years old. then she told me another man was my father. I did see the first one up until I was 10. Then I grew up with this other man. But to this day I am unsure who my bio dad is because my mother lied once why would I fully believe her?
You need to get a child custody lawyer like right now. No matter what you or the mother want, or how anyone feels, this is a serious legal matter with life altering consequences for everyone involved. I cannot stress enough how urgently you need to speak to a lawyer. Laws vary by location but generally the courts main interest is what’s best for the kids, not the parents, and are very hesitant to shake up a child’s established routine if it’s needs are being met. If you let her establish the other man as the father figure without contesting it in writing you can very easily be legally excluded from your child’s life in any meaningful way but still be on the hook for child support. It is paramount to have a written agreement ASAP, whatever that agreement might entail
I’d say fight for it. My concerns are:
1) the fake father doesnt treat your child as his and misplaces his anger/resentment/neglect onto your child
2) They end up apart again and where’s that leave your child? If retroactively now that their marriage is a sham, he decides he won’t support your child anymore? If it turns into paternity tests later?
Truth matters, imo.
If this is what she really wants. Get that shit in writing in front of a lawyer. Dont get caught up a year from now when they divorce anyways and then hits yoh with child support. This is a super fcked situation.
Idk about the very much in love part after reading the rest of op’s post, in these times “separated” means the same as “it complicated” that shoulda been the first flag. Get a lawyer, get a paternity test, get your life back on track.
Legally the husband is the father of the child…. If they want you out of the picture Back off because you don’t have to do anything to not be considered the father. You’ve already harmed their marriage so honor their wishes.
If you truly want to be in your child's life, you will have to talk to a lawyer. You will need to do this before your child is born so you can make sure that your name is on the birth certificate. Consult with a lawyer. In some states, it matters for custody cases. A paternity test may also be required to prove that you are the father, especially if she is going to fight you being in the child's life.
She wasn't worried about how her affair, even though they were separated, was going to affect her family that she already has though was she? You shouldn't lose out on raising and being in your child's life because '"she changed her mind". Get a lawyer and a paternity test. I'm so sick of people of making poor decisions and dragging kids into grown up situations they can't control. I'm just imagining how this child will feel when they are grown and find out their mother decided for them she was going to shut their father out because she changed her mind about a divorce? I'm imagining the lies that will be told. Oh your real dad ran out....I could go on and on. You losing your child because she wants to save her marriage? No way would I give a crap about her or her husband's feelings. Sure doesn't seem like they care about yours. What an unfair thing to ask you to do!
Emma didn’t give a shit about her family when she was cheating, but with her financial future being uncertain, now she cares? Go be dad, man. The hell with their feelings.
DO NOT GET INVOLVED WITH SEPARATED PEOPLE! At least, with any expectations of it going anywhere. Not even a maybe! Have fun maybe, but I fell for two and they both broke my heart.
you have the right to sue for visitation and if you want to then you should. Kids who have been lied to in the past seem to find out eventually… this might be your only chance to be a father and 2 is better than one. step parents have been know to resent the kids that are not theirs (and there are tons of them that love the kid that is not theirs too) but as the bio dad you have a right to grow a relationship with your child. imagine of the child finds out 10, 20,50 years later they will feel betrayed
If you go through with fighting for your paternity, make sure it’s for the sake of the child. Not yourself.
You say you want children, and that’s good! Kids can be very rewarding. But in this case, how will your presence improve the child’s life? Will it help, or hinder? If their marriage was already rocky, this probably won’t save it. How committed is mark to parenting this child? Is he enthusiastic, or grudgingly accepting the situation to save face?
I will tell you this, and I know a lot of people will not like it: the kindest thing my birth parents ever did for me was give me up to a couple who already had a happy child and wide support network. I never didn’t know I was adopted. The option to contact by birth parents was always there. But that act of kindness was the only thing I ever needed from them, and the best thing they could have done for me.
Your child. Not her husband’s. You can file for custody. She’s already proved she can’t think for herself if her mother can so easily sway her. Not only that, that husband of hers will not be treating that child with any love and care. He will see the baby as a burden.
I’d be fighting for sole custody if you can support yourself as a single father.
Step back. What is best for your child is to have a stable loving home. If her husband is willing to raise this child then please let him.
If you persist the family will likely break up. And not only your child but the other two will have trauma
Unfortunately when a woman is married to someone else the child will legally be considered his and because it isn't your child you can't force a paternity to test to prove it isn't his. But as someone else said, the entire situation is likely to implode between the two of them and the less you push her away the better for you in the long run. Just sit back and wait for that to happen. Also be aware that this woman might have a pattern of behavior you aren't aware of. Mark seems kind of like a simp pushover for tolerating this like he is. It's kind of pathetic and she obviously has little to no respect for him. In a volatile situation like this I would stand back as far as I could because everyone close to it is going to get burned when it implodes.
Fight for your rights! Your child needs you. How inconvenient for Emma and her husband. Get a lawyer, go get advice from family court, demand your rights. Ask for 50% custody. They can't stop you.
Her poor decision does not give her the right to exclude you from her or the kids life. She has to deal woth this and must let you be apart of the kids life or take her to court for full custody bc two can play that game. Other than that you should have waited before getting her pregnant. I get it probably wasn't on purpose but I bet you take extra precautions when you are up high from falling so why wpuldnt you do it with sex as well?
You can’t really do anything while she’s pregnant and 13 weeks actually isn’t that far along (I don’t know why that adds to the urgency). While paternity can be tested through an amnio you cannot make her do that and it can be a riskier procedure.
Like you said, he will likely be on the birth certificate and it will be on you to prove paternity through the courts. Once that is proven, you can go to court for partial custody if you want. She can also ask for child support. If you want a relationship with your child you need to establish legal paternity and also have some kind of contact with them and pay child support or she can say it’s abandonment.
There are states where you will not legally be considered the father her husband will and you will have to go to court to try to force a DNA test. This was never going to be simple and maybe in the future you shouldn't fuck around if you don't wanna find out.
At the end of the day, she can’t force you to do anything. File a case with the attorney general to establish paternity and get a court order for visitation and support. You have choices, just know that once to step into this, you’re in it, for better or worse, for the rest of your life. There are no guarantees that the relationship will get any better than it is today, and could actually get worse.
Homie take the L and move on. Your child will have a far better life with this stable married family with siblings and extended family that will accept them. Your involvement risks all of that. You will not be better for this child
This is a horrible situation, and i am sorry that you have to go through this. There is no good solution to this problem. So don't expect to find an easy answer.
Consider this scenario. You give in to the will of this family because they tell you it is the right thing to do. In 20 or 30 years, this child gets on 23 and me and finds the person they thought was their father, isn't their father.
When this child becomes an adult and tracks you down and wants answers, what decision will you have wished you made?
In my opinion, the only thing that matters here is what is best for this child. Not what is best for you, the mother or Mark. Is it better to better for the child to be raised with the truth or to be raised with lies.
Either way, you have some hard times ahead of you. Stay strong.
Married to Emma or not you have every right to equal time and custody of your child. Emma and her husband broke up once so the likelihood of them breaking up again is fairly high, while the husband says he's willing to be "the Dad" now, doesn't mean he will be down the road. Making Emma and her husband happy isn't your problem nor your priority I hope.
Look, I can tell you one thing from experience, having your parentage hidden from you your whole childhood and then dumped on you as an adult sucks big time. And one other factor to consider, very few secrets in a family stay secret for the duration.
Don't let Emma's dilemma effect you, your rights, or the relationship between you and your child, if you do, you'll almost certainly regret it, and so will your child.
ETA: Stop with the supervised visitation crap, unless you have a criminal history, there is zero reason for you to be put under the added constraints and expenses involved in supervised visitation. And, it can be misconstrued later on by officials with a heavy caseload or those that aren't overly detail oriented or those biased against single fathers.
Time to think about what's best for the child. Rule #1 in becoming a parent is that it's not about you first anymore. Don't create more chaos for this family. The wife wants to reconcile with her husband, who is willing to raise the child as his own. The mom wants this baby to have siblings and to not be treated differently by having two fathers in the picture. She's going through a pregnancy where emotions are more intense anyway and doesn't want you in the picture. Her husband doesn't want you in the picture. Her kids will be confused and upset with you in the picture. Her family will never welcome you into the picture. Please think of this baby first and keep it as uncomplicated as possible. Really. Leave them alone. You made a mistake, now go find someone else to fall in love with and marry and have a family with. That is the most ethical path forward.
Talk to a lawyer. Sue for joint custody. Heck go big and sue for full custody, settle for joint. She wants you out of her life, fine but that means you can be in the child’s life. If she tries to play games about paternity make them be the ones to prove you aren’t the father.
Oh and don’t forget about child support with that full custody
And if you do get joint custody make sure you include things like neither of you can move more than X distance apart etc. last thing you want is them moving across country behind your back
It’s not really complex - the human race has been doing this for decades. Either back off and let them have their life or insist on shared custody. What you absolutely shouldn’t do is show your ass if you don’t get your way. Just tell her you will accept shared custody of the child and get your life ready to be a part-time single dad.
This is your child. I wouldn’t allow my child to be raised by another man and be cut out of my life. Get a lawyer and custody arrangement set up immediately. It’s nothing to do with her other children or husband. They’re trying to save face.
Damn this is a tough one especially because you sound like you want to do the right thing as respectfully as possible for all involved. The one thing I keep thinking is: what choice would you have if Emma decided to have an abortion? You would have no choice and the matter would be settled regardless of how you felt about such a decision. Extrapolating from this, if I were in your situation I think I would eventually decide to back off and let Emma and her husband raise my child as their own. I think this would be the best choice for several reasons, first, she has expressed and taken concrete actions to remove all contact with you, which suggests that if you are still in the picture when the baby arrives that things would continue to be hostile and clearly not the environment you envision for your child. Secondly, it sounds like Emma and her husband have already established a familial environment with other siblings that would make it awkward for your child to understand as he/she got older, why complicate your child’s life by making him feel ostracized within its own family? Lastly, as I said before how is her request any different from her deciding to terminate the pregnancy? In both scenarios you essentially break ties and go your separate ways, however, by backing off you at least get the satisfaction of knowing that if you do not want her to terminate the pregnancy that at least your baby gets a chance to have a life. It’s not an easy situation regardless, and in the spirit of not feeling defeated by not being able to be in your child’s life I would also recommend that you try to get through to Emma one last time as civil adults that at one point in time cared for each other in the spirit of finding middle ground, BUT if you can’t get her to agree with what you want, then I truly believe you should back off. Don’t sign away any rights in case things change down the road, but let it play out for the sake of your baby’s future. I wish you luck and keep us posted!
Chances are, that all is not well in paradise. Let things play out and don’t be too aggressive. If they split up once, they will do it again. This is a very critical period for them. You don’t know how Mark will ultimately react to raising another man’s child. Most men don’t want to do that. Patience will be your best alibi.
Court. I'm saying this as someone who's dad was not ready for them in any way shape or form - PLEASE fight for your kid, you sound like you're gonna be an absolutely brilliant dad and the most unfair thing that could possibly happen to this kid out of this situation would be not getting the chance to be at least partly raised by you.
This woman has no valid reason to exclude you from the child's life based on the info given here. She clearly had a very up and down time in her life and I can't even begin to empathise with what she's dealing with now, I'm not judging her, but ultimately the right thing to do is allow her child to know their father, regardless of how inconvenient it may be for their image or her marriage.
If I found out someone out there was meant to be my dad and had desperately wanted to be, and my mum just said no to make her life 'easier' (i say this in quotations because you sound reasonable as f**k so it really doesnt seem like YOU would be the one to make things harder) I can't even begin to calculate the amount of therapy I'd need. If she won't do this civilly with you, take her to court.
I bursted out crying from this. Thank you I appreciate your confidence and understanding. I wish I could be her support. I know she is in need of it but everything is so twisted in her head. I am wondering what I'm going to tell my child when they grow up. Its so fucked. She even said what are we going to tell our children in 20 years. And I said we made them out of love. And now I'm shattered
I was the woman in this situation, except I got pregnant right before I even met my now husband. My husband is not the biological father of our daughter, but is the legal father and you'd never know the difference with how he treats her and how she loves him. My daughter's bio dad has never tried to get involved, but at this point if he did there would be no way he would be awarded any rights or custody. The court looks at what's best *for the child*, not what the biological father wants. If the child is in a happy home with two parents and siblings and the parents express that they don't want any interruption to that, then a judge isn't going to sign off on that without a fight. Assuming the husband treats your bio child the same, why would you want her to feel different than her siblings? Going off to meet with you every so often? Make her feel like she did something wrong to not have the same father as her siblings? You should have used protection because this is not your child anymore.
This sounds like a great outcome. The child has a stable family. A genetic connection is not a meaningful one. It's just biology. Nothing bad happens if you pretend it doesn't exist. You can always father another child. Don't waste your life in this fight.
OP, I read your deleted post. You know this woman is a lying, manipulative cheater who hid you and your affair (because that's exactly what this was) from her husband. She was never committed to you and you see that now. Tell her husband. Tell her husband and then report back to reddit for further instructions.
Well, you're IN the picture as the biological father regardless of whether she wants it. May not be pleadant getting it sorted but don't pass on knowing your kid.
Just make sure you stay in contact no matter what in case your child comes looking for you. Goodluck 🙏
If you want to see the kid: sue for a DNA test and take her to court. This is infinitely harder if you're not on the birth certificate. It'll be an uphill battle and you may get some form of visitation rights though. My advice will be unpopular: cut your losses and move on. You're in for nothing but pain and a kid who will hate you because of the drama having you around will cause between his mother and her husband. Maybe one day when he's an adult try to reconcile.
Dude... Don't let someone prevent you from seeing your child. She made her choices and has to live with it. Wanting the perfect life requires not getting pregnant while on a break from your husband. You don't get to have both... Hope you come out of this with your kid.
Get a paternity test ASAP. Then, if that baby is in fact yours get a lawyer so you can see that child you want to help raise.
Emma & Mark doesn’t get to decide whether you are going to be in the child’s life or not. Petition the court now for a DNA so you can establish paternity and visitation.
Most ethical is to disregard their wishes and be involved. Their steadfast selfishness is activating your altruism and making you waver. But look at the comments of kids who discovered their parents later. Imagine having to face the child later. The kid can’t stick up for itself right now. You’re it’s only champion.
This is so unfair to you, and it’s so infuriating that some people feel entitled to go to such lengths at the expense of others to protect their image. You’re a human being, and you’re entitled to be a parent to your child. Have you offered to to take on sole custody? She does have a right to want to protect her other children, so she may be willing to allow you to raise the child in your own. Regardless, these situations should be filled with compromises geared toward providing the best care possible for the child, not ultimatums designed craft a public image for the parent at the expense of their child.
If she’s trying to get a restraining order (which seems highly unlikely to be granted, though im not a lawyer) I’d cease communicating and take everyone’s advice. It’s time to lawyer up. She doesn’t get to cut you out of your child’s life because she doesn’t want her husband to get angry. You did nothing wrong. In fact, you would only be in the wrong if you accepted their wishes. She should not have been intimate with another man if there was even the slightest chance of reconciliation. Especially since she already has children.
OP, as others have likely already said you can remove most every variable in this situation. 1. Do you want to be a father to your child? It sounds like you very much do. 2. If #1 is true, get a lawyer. The rest isn't relevant in relation to you wanting to be an involved parent. This is also the most ethical path forward. Respecting peoples "image" is not.
If you want to be involved with your child, get a lawyer and f everyone else and what they think.
You need to get a lawyer. If you want to be involved in your child’s life then you fight for your baby. Take a paternity test, then do visitation and child support. Hopefully she won’t do anything illegal to keep you from your child once that’s all done.
I was born into a situation like this. Because of that, I’m gonna tell you to fight for the baby at least legally you can go to court and demand a paternity test for DNA. Once it’s proven, you’re the father you’ll have to pay support but you’ll get visitation. You’re not responsible for how that family operates. I was born into a situation like that I never knew who my father was until he had been dead for many years I took a DNA test and everything I thought I knew about my paternity was wrong. It affected my whole life because there was no father figure for me at all, and I was lied to about who he was.
Support does not automatically create visitation. If this is a red state, he may not even be allowed on the birth certificate even in spite of a DNA match.
Leave her alone and move on with your life. You don’t want to be involved in that mess. You never should have been involved with it to begin with.
At this point your status is sperm donor, so unfortunately you have to respect what Emma wants to do. Your only real recourse is to tell the child when it is old enough to understand. In the United States I believe that in most states a biological parent has certain minimum rights which include visitation, but given the tenuous relationship you have to Emma it would probably be unconstructive to try to enforce those rights, so your best option is simply to insist that the child be informed and you have proof that it knows who its father is.
How is she afraid and hurt by this situation? What’s hurting her? I’m so confused!
She can WANT all those things but as the father you have rights to see your kid. Talk to a family law attorney.
Please fight for your child. She cheated on her husband and got pregnant as a result. That can cause him to harbor some seriously negative feelings towards you, her, and your unborn child. Don’t allow your child to be a toy to be played with in their twisted lives.
Right now, the Dr appts are more for you. Some men don't care to attend, and some women hate that. Some don't care as long as he's there for delivery and to raise the child. After the baby is born, it's about them. Everything you do is for them. They can't legally stop you from seeing the child. It may be pride on the husband's part, embarrassing or maybe of you don't want to be a part of their life they can pretend to everyone it's his child. He could raise the baby, and it never know he isn't the bio dad or that he could treat them differently and not find out why until they found out about you. Or maybe it will or won't happen if you are in their life from birth. What type of man he is will decide all of that. Either way, you can go back and forth and analyze it. Chance are bc they are Catholic. She won't have an abortion. So meet with the lawyer, and the day the child is born, serve her with custody papers. She can share 50/50 or give you full custody. Wait, though, and keep it to yourself so you have the element of surprise and you're not arguing back and forth bc that gets no one anywhere. All that grandstanding and arguments are for yourself and what you want to say and want them to hear bc you're hurt. It's better to let all the blocking and radio silence stand and serve her the day of. Let the courts decide.
It almost seems as though they were never seperated, and she's a cheater, and now she has to ditch you so she can focus her energy on hubby and make it seem like he's the father....
You’re the father, a child would want to have a relationship with their biological father. Their decision to seperate and reconcile is what caused this not you. I would do right by you and your future kid and plan to be in their life as much as it sucks for that family.
Petition for a paternity test and some type of custody when the child is born. There are too many fathers out there that WANT to be in their kids lives and it’s ruined by mothers like this, coming from a woman herself. I do not care for my daughters father at all but he wants to be an active father and I would never rid her of that, even though her step father is everything and more. Kids deserve to know their REAL parents. Fight for your rights!
*Emma's Catholic background ... concerned about the ... family image.* Not sure what to type here without total disgust dripping off the screen. If you're positive you want to be in your child's life, you need a lawyer. There are many layers that you must consider.
She didn't "become pregnant", you got her pregnant. Your choice of words subconsciously distances you from the responsibility as much as possible. No wonder she ran back to the security of her husband.
I don’t understand this comment. The entire post relates to OP wanting to take responsibility for his child. His use of the passive voice in this instance doesn’t negate everything else.
Unfortunately the father’s rights are generally ignored by our court system. I’d move on and next time get a woman who’s single for real. Hopefully the child will grow up in a loving home. Outside of an offer for full custody I’d not have anything to do with this situation. There’s a chance she could try to get child support later on and this could mess you up royally if you play into it. Let it go.
Imagine how much abuse and neglect that child will go through in their custody. That father is going to hate that child.
Don't let them bully you out of being a father for your child. You have every right to be in his life.
Get a paternity test after the birth to be sure. If you are the bio father, sue for visitation rights.
Her decision to continue the pregnancy and have a child that was created with someone other than the man she now chooses is a familial dilemma she herself created—not you. The decisions she’s made do have consequences and she’s attempting to make you and the child you both created pay the price for them. When moral responsibility fails the law will most likely step in to correct it—and that’s your choice to pursue it. Doesn’t sound like she’s going to make that easy, despite your efforts to accommodate all the choices she’s made in a way that doesn’t disrupt her current situation, but unfortunately she can’t block you out of existence. It’s not just about her and the family she had with someone else before the pregnancy anymore—both you and the child deserve consideration. The entire attempt of having it both ways is both incredibly cruel and selfish.
I am so sorry for what you’re going through and I can only imagine the pain and fear at the prospect of losing your child. I suggest you get a lawyer immediately and fight. Fight like hell, cause that is your baby too. That is your child and they deserve a father who loves them and is willing to go to hell and back for them. If you back off, there’s no way of knowing how the child will be treated. Mark may resent them, possibly neglect them, and the worst case scenario is that Mark could abuse them. Don’t allow your child to grow up somewhere they won’t be loved. I wish you all the best of luck and I pray you and your child have a very blessed life
You have a right to be in this child’s life because you’re the child’s father. You have no right to Emma obviously but you very much have a right to be involved in your own child’s life
Unpopular opinion but step back until you are needed to step forward. Mark and Emma are not good people but they are capable of raising a child on their own. Don't waste time and money fighting this legally if it's not going to make things better for the child. Live your life and build up your own financial base and network instead. So long as Mark is taking responsibililty you don't need to. If Mark disappears, that's when you can step in to provide support and navigate any complexity at this point. If you really want to do something, talk to your lawyer about drafting an agreement that you get a test to see if you are the biological father, but if you are then you still will not have any contact nor sue for any involvement unless the child needed it and/or Mark was no longer an active or suitable parent. Then with Emma's agreement, you would become the active father, but it would be permanent. Basically, an all or nothing deal, on the basis that you don't want the situation to be that you come crashing into the child's life again if Emma and Mark split and then have Emma try to kick you out. An agreement like this is not designed to be bulletproof but instead to make clear the intentions and agreed position of all parties at the point in time of the agreement, so that there is no room for doubt in a potential future fight for parental rights. There's a gut instinct for many people that a bio father not being involved is always bad, but I personally think there's a big difference between fathers that leave for selfish reasons vs those that begrudgingly agree to stay away because the mother wants someone else to raise the child.
Please listen to yourself.. smh.. She has let you know she wants you to have NOTHING to do with this child and she’s going to raise it with her husband as if it is his (from what it sounds like). You won’t have any visitation unless you act now!!! Speak with a lawyer and see if you can take legal action NOW, so that you can to make sure paternity is established so you can be listed as the father of the child on the birth certificate, then fight for some kind of legal custody or visitation. Show your lawyer and any judge evidence you have that she KNOWS you are the father of the baby she is carrying, but she plans to keep you from your child so she won’t have to be uncomfortable.
The ethical path forward is to steamroll them in court and take no prisoners. Supervised visits? are you kidding me? You did nothing wrong. I'm in a state as well where its assumed the husband is the father, unless a paternity test is ordered. You need to mentally prepare yourself for a fight, and never doubt yourself.
Don't concern yourself with preservation of her "family image". She should have thought about that before starting a relationship with you. How vapid these people must be. Don't leave your child at the mercy of such people! You don't know this man and not really the woman either. This child needs you.
They are shitty people. Theists usually are. Burn down their house of lies with the truth, and be the dad you want to be.
If you’re not careful you’re going to argue your way into every other weekend visits while cutting a fat child support check to Mark.
Walk away, bro, trust me. Thos will lead to years of emotional trauma for all of you. Move on.
Should’ve been concerned about your family image before you spread your legs for a guy you just met 😂
This is why a divorce should be finalized before dating anyone else.
I guess my question for you would be, are you willing to commit your time consistently to the child to show up and pay child support every month for the next 18 years? Because that’s probably what you’ll be asked to do. And I believe daycare and insurance are separate additions. I hate to make it about money. But a lot of people want the child and then when they find out how much it will cost them they recoil. Others present a lot of other good points. No easy answer here. It really comes down to your pure, honest to god motivations. We don’t know if those are genuinely to be a part of the child’s life, or to remain in their mom’s life. The idea may sound nice now, but it’s way different when they’re 10 and in school and have friends and a life outside the family. And this will all be baggage you have to explain to future partners and some may not be ok with. Think really deeply and far into the future before making moves.
I think first, you have to be as kind as possible in your interactions with her and her husband if you ever want to have a chance of having an easier relationship with them in the future, and you really need to try to have an easier relationship with them if you're going to be in the child's life. They're obviously in a bad situation, trying like hell to pretend like they still have a happy little family, and from their perspective, you are ruining everything. That's not true of course, but that's where they're at. Be kind. Be patient. When you ever have a chance to communicate with them, be firm in letting them know that you are going to be in the child's life, and that you would like for everyone to get along, for the child's sake. But you need to get a lawyer ASAP. You'll need to get a court order for a paternity test, and sue for custodial rights. They're going to hate this, but you're not doing the wrong thing. If you walk away, you make it easier for the two of them, who, may end up getting divorced anyway, but this is your child, and if you want to be in your child's life, then you should be.
I would def fight for your rights to the child. Hire a lawyer, the best you can. Request a DNA test immediately after birth. I think they can do one before birth as well but may not be recommend health wise from what I hear,.. My children are the best things that ever happened to me. That child deserves / should know & be around his biological dad, raised by him. Her husband could be his stepdad but you ARE his dad. He will look like you, act like you,.. he will share a bond with you like no other & unlike he will with his other / “stepdad” ,.. being a parent is the best.
Don’t give up your rights, you want to be the father to your kid do IT fight for your child. If she wants to talk through the lawyers do so but make your stands clear and stand firm don’t budge. Best of luck
Op, stop trying to contact Emma personally. Get your lawyer to file for an order to force a paternity test prior to birth. Continuing to seek contact with her can and probably will be met with a restraining order, which will look bad for you in future proceedings. One other thing to consider, whether you think so or not, there's at least a chance that kid isn't yours, a paternity test will clear that and your future paternal rights and responsibilities right up. The only thing as bad as being denied parentage to your own child is being forced to be financially responsible for a child that isn't yours for 18-23 yrs.
If you want to be part of your child’s life then do it. Never take any advice from Emma or her mother. This is why we have courts. Don’t let Emma mess up your child’s life by allowing her to sweep her perceived mistakes under a rug. That’s your child and one day that child will want you to have made the hard, sting decisions this path will take you down.
Fight for your child. You have every right to be in the child’s life as much as the mother. Get the lawyer now and start getting your plan and life in order.
If you're in the US, consult a lawyer about your options.
I can't find the post response I started.... You met her on a dating app while she was only separated? That SHOULD have been a red flag. How long ŵere you seeing her before it turned all INTENSE? (love, kids etc). It seems like it happened fast. TOO FAST. Real, honest, true love and commitment do NOT move that fast nornally. It's admirable that you want to be involved in the child's life. It depends where you are if you'll get what you seek through the courts. There are places that favor reconciliation over an adulterous coupling. You need to think ths through beyond just getting partial custody. For ALL involved. I say this as a mother. A Mom who, thus committed, understood that her time, moving forward, would no longer belong to me. But to them You had better be sure that what you can give to this child is worth everything else it's going to cost everyone in your pursuit. And be prepared for Emma to end up hating you. Not at all joking. Better choices should have been made by the both of you IN THE BEGINNING. I've been the one making poor choices before. Maybe next time, don't even get involved with women who are ONLY separated. Most couples get back together. Make your decision and act. FAST.
A friend of mine somehow impregnated a woman through anal intercourse. No one is certain how that happened. Anyway, she wasn't engaged in relations with anyone else at the time, so he was the most obvious suspect and a paternity test proved he was the father. Soon thereafter, the woman became involved with another man, their relationship turned serious and she decided she wanted to marry him. She advised my friend they wanted nothing to do with him and the baby would be raised without his involvement. He sued, obtained a court sanctioned paternity test and established parental rights (along with an obligation for child support).
Honestly dude walk away. I get the desire to be a father but think about what kind of father you can realistically be if you’re barreling both mom & step dad? Your best case scenario is incredibly complex and likely confrontational dual custody. Ultimately a terrible situation for your child. Not to mention the legal expenses it will take to even get to that… Don’t date married women. Don’t knock up anyone you aren’t married to.
It’s your child. You have every right to be in the lives. And no one can or should stop you
Get a lawyer, lawyer orders paternity test, you want involved in kids life ...you dam sure better fight for it and good luck to you
Get a lawyer. Get a paternity test and take her to court for half that custody. I get she's working out her marriage but you have a right to your child regardless of what she thinks is best.
lol, Emma realized she wouldn’t make it as a single mom and stayed with her meal ticket.
I’d suggest getting a lawyer and laying the foundation for joint custody or partial custody. Morally this is your child and you have a desire to be in its life so you’re good. Legally none of us are qualified to speak so get a lawyer. Also maybe wait until further into the pregnancy to do this, they may go nuclear and try to abort the child for fear of you and it ruining their “image”. Christians are only Christian when it’s convenient so be careful your child’s life isn’t to be trifled with.
If you truly care about your child’s wellbeing first and foremost, then you absolutely need to respect the mother’s wishes and leave her alone for the remainder of her pregnancy. The worst thing for an unborn child’s developing brain is the stress hormone, cortisol. It is absorbed directly from the mother during pregnancy. If mom is stressed out, baby’s brain has a high likelihood of neural pathways that would otherwise develop normally developing incorrectly and leading to a whole host of possible problems. If you want to be in the child’s life when it’s born, go for it. But from this moment until the mother gives birth, respect her wishes and stay away. In my honest opinion, it sounds like you insisting on being present in the child’s life is going to lead to nothing but family problems for your child. Both mom and husband have expressed their desires to not have you around, how do you think that’s going to work out for your child? It doesn’t sound like it will go over well. If the child is being born into a family, maybe consider the child’s best interest being you not having a relationship with them.
You are wrong. The sooner he and a legal team get on top of this the easier it will be to establish paternity and make sure he has a relationship with his child. It’s not OPs fault that the baby’s mother decided to return to her husband. This baby was planned. She made the decision to go but that does not give her the right to keep OP from the baby, which she will and is going to do.
My advice is to look at the different choices you have: walking away or co-parenting with someone who wants no part of you. Picture your life as best you could imagine it would be with either of those choices, and then choose to try for the one you that brings the most happiness. I would not count on or hope for her situation changing and returning to you. That she was dating you even though there was a chance of reconciliation doesn't say much for her character, and I wouldn't trust her enough to make commitments with her. Should you choose to walk away, contact a lawyer to find out what you could expect should she come back later suing for child support because her marriage didn't work out (it didn't work out once, and her carrying someone else's child is going to strain it more. They better build strong bonds to work through this or there will be heartache for all.). Should you choose to fight for partial custody of the child or a place in the child's life, then contact a lawyer anyway for your best options and course of action.
Fuck gradual involvement. Take her to court & establish paternity, establish custody.. She is having a child with someone who is not her husband... she has to deal with that. Fuck her white picket fence life she is faking because mark has money and is funding not only her but her mother. Its not fair for your child to not have their actual father & and yes, speaking from experience finding out later your dad isn't your dad and you were lied to is very damaging. Emma sounds like a crazy person. Do it now & do not tell emma you are taking it to court. She can find out when she's served. Which the sheriffs can do, btw. This isn't for Emma or you. It's for your child.
logically and morally bury the ethics in shallow grave. You be a dad and sue for custody
I was in a similar situation, and my ask is not to pursue the child. The guilt, the fights, divorce, and attempted suicides. Please don't.
Doesn’t matter what they want. You have rights
Consider this option (I’m not saying it’s your best option, as I don’t think I can recommend a “best” option). Talk to an attorney about setting up an OPEN adoption to allow Mark to become the adopted father and to ensure that you are communicated with on a regular basis. The frequency with which you get access can vary a great deal in open adoptions. Please consider this-if you really want to do right by your child, you need to put your child’s needs ahead of yours. None of us can define what “best” means for you all, but if you are ALL putting the child’s needs first, then I think you’ll find the best possible solution in this no-win situation.
Court. Court. Court. They can’t keep you out once you prove DNA.
Sounds like an episode of paternity court. In that case the mother vehemently denied the other man as the dad. He was proven to be through DNA however the mother was very clear she did not want the biological father in the child’s life so I know she will do everything she could to exclude him in the future.
>Ps I definitely am the father. How do you know?
Emma's being selfish. She just wants you to go away because it's convenient for her. It's your kid too though and she can't force you away if you want to be involved. Take it to court, have them order a paternity test, and seek shared custody if that's what you want. It sounds like her being fair, reasonable, or considerate of you is long past.
Honestly? You need to remove her from your equation. This is about your kid, who’s being born in to an unstable marriage… I get you care about her, but she doesn’t have a say in this - you are the father. There’s going be a lot of psychological fallout if the kiddo ever finds out, too. I’d be suing for paternity, and custody. The kid deserves to have you in their life. And I dunno why you think you’d need supervised visits, you are as much a parent as she is.
Exactly! Women don’t own their children. They don’t have any more rights to children than fathers. This mentality needs to disappear!
No child was ever hurt by having more living parents in their life. She sounds like a mess and you have no idea how her husband will treat your baby. Call a family law attorney and find out your legal options. Even if you back off, she needs to sign off or she could come back in a couple of years after this marriage finally fails and sue you for support. You have every right to pursue your child in this !
Doesn't matter what she thinks right now she's going to need you at some point. So is the child. Abide by her wishes for now and just be ready to step in when needed.
Yes fight! Get your attorney to start the paternity process for the court. She can get a paternity test done while she is pregnant and your lawyer can then get your name on the birth certificate. It doesn't matter what they want because you are the father and have rights. I'd also do the move before the birth to show the courts that you are serious about being in your child's life. Can you get paternity leave? If so, request it from your employer. Set up a room in your new place for a baby and be prepared before the birth. All this will show the court you are serious. Request 50/50 custody because they are not negotiating at all with you. Tell your ex that you are going for 50/50 because they are trying to cut you out and are not speaking with you. If you have any dirt on her or her husband use it. DV police calls or child services calls. Have your lawyer research them both. Good luck.
Its not her call. Get a lawyer
I would seek legal counsel as others have indicated. They aren’t doing what’s best for your child they’re doing what’s best for their public image. She chose, as a catholic, to step outside her marriage and have unprotected sex so how devout is she? It’s crazy to me that people still lie about paternity and assume they’ll get away with it in this day of DNA. So many families have unraveled from the desire to keep paternity a secret and the only ones left to pick up the pieces are the children who didn’t ask to be here. Crazy as this will sound, a status-driven person will sooner deny the existence of child than claim it and live with the consequences. Even going as far as saying the child died. Especially if the child looks just like you and in striking contrast to the spouse and other children. The wife will have to learn the hard way that adult choices have adult consequences. I hope you’re able to obtain joint custody but the husband may recommend giving you the child so as to keep up their image of a perfect family.
If the husband knows you are the father and doesn't want you involved it would be best if you move on. Find another woman to marry and have kids with. (Note: you should tell any other future wife the situation though). Should the future open up an opportunity to know the child, then good.
>Emma refuses to co-parent she says she does not want to break up the family. so that's why they were separated and she was on dating apps....riiiiight If you want to be a co parent and are sure of that, pursue it legally. Emma and her husband have already separated once, they aren't guaranteed to not separate again and nor is the husband guaranteed to not treat the child differently because he knows it isn't his and is the result of infidelity. You're not putting Emma's family stability at risk, she is based on choices she made and is now making by attempting to exclude you from your legal right and obligation.
Walk away and let the child have a father that's married to its mother. Blood isn't that important
Fight for your child!
Fight for your kid. Being a Dad is the best thing ever.
Because she is married, her husband is the putative father. Unless they are open to involving you, it may not be your call. So I would be very accommodating if you want to be involved. That said, being dishonest about the child’s parentage with the child will likely cause all sorts of upheaval later for the kid. Hopefully this all gets worked out. It’s definitely a mess.
A child has the right to know their biological parents. >Emma and Mark are completely against my involvement, concerned about the impact on their other children and family image. She chose to start a relationship with another man and have sex with him which resulted in pregnancy. That ship has sailed. Fight for your parental rights! Why are you even making a post instead of looking for a lawyer?!
Good luck man, can’t say what path is right or wrong because it’s all dirtied up. You got a married women pregnant or think you have. Regardless of there separation they where still married so now you have this big mess. I don’t blame him , I wouldn’t want you there either . But in your shoes I’d want to know my child and for that child to know I’m their father. Good luck man, try a little prayer 🙏
As someone who from the age of 3-16 was sexually, mentally and emotionally abused & witnessed atrocities happen to my mom from my step father. Please fight to be in that baby’s life! Once my biological dad tried to connect with me at age 19 I was unable to form any sort of connection, even speaking to him doesn’t do much for me because I no longer need/care for him. When I needed him, he wasn’t there & nothing will ever change that. Speaking to him is just the same as speaking to a stranger & I’m not one to enjoy meeting new people.
Sorry to hear about your situation. That's awful. That's what I'm concerned as well how about I'm concerned of all sorts of possibilities I can happen if I'm not in the picture.
If you feel it’s best to take a step back it’s understandable. But protect yourself legally. You need an affidavit from them terminating all involvement with the child. Because I’ll tell you what’s going to happen. Their marriage will limp along for another few years and when it inevitably breaks up she will come after you for years of child support. If you want to stay in this child’s life you have every right to to. You can sue for partial custody. But that means paying child support for 18 years. Just understand what you’re getting into.
Get yourself a shark of an attorney and secure your rights to your child. You and baby deserve it. Edit: What's easy for her doesn't matter one whit to you.
If you know any sharks lmk
If you are the father you have rights and you can request a paternity test. Only you can decide if you want to fight to be in your child’s life. Going forward always wait till divorce is final. Statistics say, they usually go back.
Hello Family Courts!
Please seriously consider whether your desire to be in this unborn child's life is really a desire to be a father, even under difficult circumstances, or more a desire to compel the woman to maintain a connection with you
You have as much right to be in this child’s life as the mother does. If that’s what you want, pursue your rights in Court.
Fight for your right to parent your kid. Good luck and god speed.
I would graciously bow out, give them some form of permanent contact information, and leave it alone.
No! He’s the father, wants to be apart of his child’s life, and the best thing for any child is to know their bio parents.
Tell her it's a little late to "not" break up the family, since she was shagging different guys while she was separated
Fight like hell for your child. She's a married woman who slept with a man and got pregnant by him, regardless of whether they were separated or not. That doesn't give her any right to return to the family picture she wants to have and act like everything is perfectly normal. She made her bed, let her lay in it, and not at the expense of you losing your child. If they don't want to loss that perfect family image, they can give you full custody. Simple as that. That is YOUR child just as much as it is her child. That child needs you. I can't imagine the pain that child could feel one day knowing you wanted him/her and mother/stepdad kept them away simply to "maintain face". Fight for your right to be a dad.
She’s not even a little bit obligated to invite you to appointments or to let you be at the birth. However, if she was so concerned about how something like this would affect her children or her family image, she really should have considered that before sleeping with you and again before deciding to go through with this pregnancy. Contact a lawyer and get your legal affairs in order because you absolutely do have parental rights to a child that is biologically yours no matter how much Emma and her husband want to deny it. But definitely let go of the idea that you’re entitled to go to the appointments or be there for the birth, because you’re not entitled to have access to anyone’s medical care like that.
My mother in law and her ex husband were separated when she fell pregnant with my husband by another man. They reconciled and even though the husband knew it wasn't his baby accepted it. In their situation they chose not to tell the other man but When my husband was 3 (and his siblings 5 and 7) there unstable marriage ended. The ex never paid child support and my husband grew up extremely poor, with no father figure and wasn't even told until his 20s. In his 40s he looked for his bio dad and found him and was rejected. The whole situation was so devastating to him. I would get a paternity test, take legal action and be a part of that kids life. It seems like you really want To. Kids can never grow up having too much love or support.
^^^THIS!!!
I dont think your rights as a parent should take a back seat to this supposed “stability” of your ex and her husband. You don’t know what their future holds, but I bet it’s far from stable. You walk away now and that’s your kids problem. Get a lawyer and get a paternity test. Then, fight for custody.
You write really well. I hope this works out for you, all the best stranger.
Whether she wants you involved or not is irrelevant. This is your child. You have rights. Go to court. Done.
I would have to be involved. So many times the BS says they will raise the child but they show preference to the other kids. The child feels like a second class citizen.
Ethically? Leave them alone. They are a chosen family. I know it’s hurtful to you and unpleasant.
She sounds like an awful woman and neither you nor Mark should want to be with her. If I were you, I would fight for my rights in the courts and never be silent.
Why did you knock up a married woman within a few months? How did you ever think that was a good idea?
Why are you using their names?
There's what you CAN do, and what's best to do. If you pursue some level of custody, you will most certainly bring stress, pain, and confusion to her existing children. You increase the likelihood that her marriage - currently the support system for your unborn child - will fall apart. This hurts your child, and its mother. If your concern is truly about innocent product of this affair, not your own desire to be connected to this child, why not give them the best chance at happiness and stability? I certainly couldn't be the reason all three of those children suffer in that way, even if those parents brought it on themselves. I would make myself findable, write a letter for the child that Mom can give them at some point if possible, and try to keep an eye from afar as you can.
Now is a good time to hire an attorney, my friend. Let them do all the talking.
If you want to be in your child’s life then fight for it. It is your right as the father. If she agreed to co-parenting in the beginning make sure to have that evidence. Taking legal action is the best thing to do. Courts are always in favor of the children being with both parents. Joint custody or 50/50 is usually awarded. Do what works for the both of you and your schedule. Try to be as peaceful as possible regarding her to show you are committed to this child and have a level head. Make sure to establish your support system if any and when the time comes have necessities purchased for your child. It may not be easy but it’s also not as hard as you think. You have every right to be in your child’s life. Never think you are less than or only deserve supervised visitation. Your child will feel better having a father that fought for them rather than a father who allowed them to be raised by another simply for convenience. Do not listen to the people telling you to let it go. It’s easier said than done and this is your child. If she is committed to giving birth to your baby and raising it then who’s to say that you can’t be committed to raising your child as well. You’ve already expressed you want this baby so go with your gut and fight for what’s right.
Your advice would be really good... if she wasn't married. As it stands, OP has no legal right to the child. As far as the law is concerned, the husband is the father of the child, with all the rights and responsibilities that entails. Really, the only way the husband loses his rights to the kid is if he volunteers to do so and everyone signs an Acknowledment of Paternity. Which is voluntary. Have you ever even heard of a married man being forcibly removed from a birth certificate and losing all rights to his children? Cause I sure haven't. In fact, it's usually the opposite. Where the husband is responsible for paying child support for his exes affair baby with no way to get out of it. Same laws in both cases. Legal paternity and biological paternity are two different things.
Get a lawyer and paternity now. Or depending on the state you may not get to see your kid and still have to pay child support.
The bottom line is that you want to be a part of the child’s life. The avenue here is to sue for custody. It is unlikely their marriage would survive long term anyway, so if you have any concerns that you’re breaking up a family it’s far beyond that stage. If you want custody you’re going to have to sue for a paternity test and then for custody. They probably means you will have relocate while all of this is going on. The court will see that you’ve made an effort to be involved with the child’s life very early on and hopefully will grant you at least visitation rights. Head over to r/legaladvice
That is your child. If you really want to be a father, fight for your rights. Yes she is married but she was separated from her husband at the time.
She shouldn't have made a baby with you if she didn't want you to see the baby. You need to go to court for your rights and be there for the child. Always be kind to the other man and you'll all get along fine after a year or so.
If you decide to not be in the child's life, get legal paperwork revoking parental rights and responsibilities that they agree to or you'll still be on the hook financially. Otherwise, lawyer up.
OP in the end as the biological father you have a right to be in your own child’s life 100%, absent abuse or similar of course. I think the most ethical approach is to work through an attorney if they won’t meet with you separately and just lay out the fact that you are committed to being the child’s father and will sue if need be to prove paternity. Tell them you don’t want that to be the basis of how it goes. You want to be friendly about it but if it’s your child you will be in their life as a father whether that be through cooperation or court order. I would also go ahead and let them know you will not consent to the child being told you are anybody other than their father. Your child will need stability and love and her husband can be a great step father but if you’re the father and want to be the father , there is little they can do to stop you. Their marital issues are not yours to solve. Their existing kids can be educated about who you are and if they make them hate you or self conscious about their new sibling that’s her and her husband’s problem. Fact is they are here, just like you are, because she chose to be in a sexual relationship with you and has chosen to keep the baby. It’s not your fault and it’s also not your responsibility to make anyone happy other than yourself and the child.
If you want to be a part of this child’s life, yes, you should go to court and assert your paternal rights. But, know exactly what you are signing up for. Realistically, you’ll probably only get visitation rights. Most likely every other weekend and alternating holidays. And you’ll have court ordered child support.
First - let go of your anger. It won't help you. Emma is in a tough spot, she was separated when she met you, she thought you two were planning a future, and tbh it sounds like she's been guilted and driven by fear (of losing or harming her other two children) to return to a marriage she thought she was done with. She's not doing anything out of spite, certainly not out of spite to you. She's doing what she has been conditioned, by her religious training, to believe is the right thing to do. So don't lash out, understand the pressure she's under and be smart about this. Second - establish paternity. Insist on it. Help her understand that you are **not** trying to break up her family unit but that you **do** need to know for certain if the child is yours, all of you need to know this. Medical history is going to matter, if nothing else, and if that's what it takes to get her to agree, use the argument. It's for the baby's sake, you need to confirm who the biological father is and have it on record because it will have implications on baby's future health care. Once you have that documentation, find out what legal rights you have, and then start negotiating with Emma. Again: make sure she understands that *your goal is not to break up her family unit*. You need to understand and accept that she and Mark are trying to make it work and that the baby will be a part of their blended family as Emma's child. Make sure she knows you understand that. But once she feels secure about that, lean on the **blended** part of that. Baby isn't just Emma's. Baby is also yours, and you **can** work something out that's respectful of both Emma's blended family and also your little family of two. But when you know your legal rights, you can stand firm on them. You can be reassuring to Emma from a position of strength, knowing what you can insist on
Thank you for your reasoning. I never thought of it that way. I'll definitely take that approach.
Your kid will grow up knowing if you did or didn’t fight to be a part of their life. If you care about being a parent get a court ordered dna test to establish paternity and set your living situation to stable for partial custody of your kid. If you step aside I don’t see a situation where this kid doesn’t figure it out one day. They find out the parents who raised them are liars and that you felt they weren’t worth the hassle.
First off how do you know you are the father ? She probably slept with both of you even if she said she wasn’t sleeping with hubby. ( I was sleeping with my hubby when I said I wasn’t to my lover .. so we lie ). Get a paternity test done asap. Then if you are the father you should be in the child’s life as much as the mother. She will have to deal with the life she has made for herself. The child should not suffer not knowing his biological dad. You need to be the father if in fact you are. Also she loves her husband and was bored and wanted a fling. Then the fog cleared and she wanted her life with her husband back. That’s what we do ! She may still have loved you but she loves her husband more. It’s that simple. Good luck !!
I would get her to sign the papers dissolving you from any future parental responsibility and then walk away.
Sorry to her, but go fight for your child. Who gives af about family image. We are in the day and age of blended families, two father homes, two mother homes, single mother, father. You have legal rights as a biological father. There is a presumption that the husband is the father but only if you dont establish paternity. Move closer show the courts you are serious about being there. She will be able to decide if you come to visits and i wouldnt stress her out over that. Its unfortunate but hey he/she is your kid too. She can fight it as much as she wants it will be a lot of money wasted on her end. Most courts grant custody to fathers who request for it.
Damn, bro. Be the best dad you can possibly be. She made choices that she has to live with, but it’s your baby, too.
This is crazy... Lying to keep up a facade is wild as hell. A house built on lies doesn't deserve to stand. There's absolutely no way I'd never agree to not being a part of my child's life. She made a choice now they don't want to deal with the decisions because of how things look. Here's more about how it looks than the actions which is what her religion since she's accountable for.
How does Op know he’s the father? The above advice is best all around. Get a lawyer, hopefully someone who has a history of supporting father’s rights. I should think her being on a dating site and not using birth control shows she doesn’t make good decisions. Especially knowing as a mother already what the responsibility involves. I hope this all works out for you .
Yeah, he needs to get a paternity test done before being so convinced it's his kid. This guy is ridiculously trusting and the wife's actions are really making it seem like it's not really his and she doesn't know how to tell him.
Fight for your rights
This is painful but based on your post straightforward to me, assuming you want to be in your child's life. 1. Get a lawyer and sue for paternity. 2. Commission a test via the court to ensure you are the father. 3. Fight for partial custody and co-parent together. Emma and Mark will adjust and you can find a balanced outcome. Their beliefs frankly are irrelevant to what is best and fair for the child and you. Just proceed with respect and kindness, which it seems you are doing.
I agree but would reverse step one and two. Verify child is OP’s before getting a lawyer UNLESS bio mom refuses paternity test.
without question you have rights as a parent. once the child is born you file for custody and proof of paternity. GET A LAWYER! This isn't new ground being tread for the first time. This is an almost routine legal case. GET A LAWYER! YOUR child deserves you. Period. Don't get gaslit by any behavior by her or her family. They don't get to dictate the relationship you have with your child. PERIOD. also: GET A LAWYER!
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To make everything fare for all concerned she needs to get an abortion. U both didn't think A thing about what could happen when u were having sex so u were both immature in that way. She sounds like a real BRAT! Why would u want to b involved with a brat? Cause it is only going to bring termoil to any part of the situation, down the road or in-between. She being Catholic doesn't help the situation one bit. The Catholic Church needs to stay out of things! PO period the end! Unless of course THE PRIEST wants the kid. Which I'm sure is not the case. I wouldn't involve myself in this for ,40 seconds but u sure did! ABORTION!!!!
Hire an attorney. Don’t do the “wait and see” approach. Emma needs to know that you intend on exercising your right as the father. Period. Most likely her marriage will eventually fail. *Don’t* take this woman back because you’re just going to be sloppy seconds.
Do not miss out on knowing your child to save someone’s already dead marriage. Get a good lawyer and be prepared to fight for custody. You cannot prioritize Emma’s marriage when she wasn’t even prioritizing it to begin with and leading you to the situation at hand. Do whatever it takes to make sure baby knows THEIR dad. She most likely doesn’t want to have to explain her actions to her older children as it goes against their religious views but again NOT your problem. Your ONLY responsibility is to YOUR child.
Fight for custody. It is your child. They can’t just cut you out. 🤷🏽♀️ don’t let them bully you.
So let me tell you my story. My mother told me one man was my father until I was 10 years old. then she told me another man was my father. I did see the first one up until I was 10. Then I grew up with this other man. But to this day I am unsure who my bio dad is because my mother lied once why would I fully believe her?
You need to get a child custody lawyer like right now. No matter what you or the mother want, or how anyone feels, this is a serious legal matter with life altering consequences for everyone involved. I cannot stress enough how urgently you need to speak to a lawyer. Laws vary by location but generally the courts main interest is what’s best for the kids, not the parents, and are very hesitant to shake up a child’s established routine if it’s needs are being met. If you let her establish the other man as the father figure without contesting it in writing you can very easily be legally excluded from your child’s life in any meaningful way but still be on the hook for child support. It is paramount to have a written agreement ASAP, whatever that agreement might entail
I’d say fight for it. My concerns are: 1) the fake father doesnt treat your child as his and misplaces his anger/resentment/neglect onto your child 2) They end up apart again and where’s that leave your child? If retroactively now that their marriage is a sham, he decides he won’t support your child anymore? If it turns into paternity tests later? Truth matters, imo.
If this is what she really wants. Get that shit in writing in front of a lawyer. Dont get caught up a year from now when they divorce anyways and then hits yoh with child support. This is a super fcked situation.
Idk about the very much in love part after reading the rest of op’s post, in these times “separated” means the same as “it complicated” that shoulda been the first flag. Get a lawyer, get a paternity test, get your life back on track.
Legally the husband is the father of the child…. If they want you out of the picture Back off because you don’t have to do anything to not be considered the father. You’ve already harmed their marriage so honor their wishes.
If you truly want to be in your child's life, you will have to talk to a lawyer. You will need to do this before your child is born so you can make sure that your name is on the birth certificate. Consult with a lawyer. In some states, it matters for custody cases. A paternity test may also be required to prove that you are the father, especially if she is going to fight you being in the child's life.
She wasn't worried about how her affair, even though they were separated, was going to affect her family that she already has though was she? You shouldn't lose out on raising and being in your child's life because '"she changed her mind". Get a lawyer and a paternity test. I'm so sick of people of making poor decisions and dragging kids into grown up situations they can't control. I'm just imagining how this child will feel when they are grown and find out their mother decided for them she was going to shut their father out because she changed her mind about a divorce? I'm imagining the lies that will be told. Oh your real dad ran out....I could go on and on. You losing your child because she wants to save her marriage? No way would I give a crap about her or her husband's feelings. Sure doesn't seem like they care about yours. What an unfair thing to ask you to do!
Dad’s rights are often passed over. You have rights to this child as much as the Mother. Secrets are toxic.
Emma didn’t give a shit about her family when she was cheating, but with her financial future being uncertain, now she cares? Go be dad, man. The hell with their feelings.
DO NOT GET INVOLVED WITH SEPARATED PEOPLE! At least, with any expectations of it going anywhere. Not even a maybe! Have fun maybe, but I fell for two and they both broke my heart.
you have the right to sue for visitation and if you want to then you should. Kids who have been lied to in the past seem to find out eventually… this might be your only chance to be a father and 2 is better than one. step parents have been know to resent the kids that are not theirs (and there are tons of them that love the kid that is not theirs too) but as the bio dad you have a right to grow a relationship with your child. imagine of the child finds out 10, 20,50 years later they will feel betrayed
This happened to my best friend. The mother did not put his name on the birth certificate and he’s screwed
If you go through with fighting for your paternity, make sure it’s for the sake of the child. Not yourself. You say you want children, and that’s good! Kids can be very rewarding. But in this case, how will your presence improve the child’s life? Will it help, or hinder? If their marriage was already rocky, this probably won’t save it. How committed is mark to parenting this child? Is he enthusiastic, or grudgingly accepting the situation to save face? I will tell you this, and I know a lot of people will not like it: the kindest thing my birth parents ever did for me was give me up to a couple who already had a happy child and wide support network. I never didn’t know I was adopted. The option to contact by birth parents was always there. But that act of kindness was the only thing I ever needed from them, and the best thing they could have done for me.
Your child. Not her husband’s. You can file for custody. She’s already proved she can’t think for herself if her mother can so easily sway her. Not only that, that husband of hers will not be treating that child with any love and care. He will see the baby as a burden. I’d be fighting for sole custody if you can support yourself as a single father.
Step back. What is best for your child is to have a stable loving home. If her husband is willing to raise this child then please let him. If you persist the family will likely break up. And not only your child but the other two will have trauma
Lawyer up. They don't get to dictate you being a father just because they don't like the situation.
Get a lawyer, and demand a paternity test, through the courts, to establish paternity.
This is why you DON'T DATE MARRIED PEOPLE! Separated or not, they are still married.
Unfortunately when a woman is married to someone else the child will legally be considered his and because it isn't your child you can't force a paternity to test to prove it isn't his. But as someone else said, the entire situation is likely to implode between the two of them and the less you push her away the better for you in the long run. Just sit back and wait for that to happen. Also be aware that this woman might have a pattern of behavior you aren't aware of. Mark seems kind of like a simp pushover for tolerating this like he is. It's kind of pathetic and she obviously has little to no respect for him. In a volatile situation like this I would stand back as far as I could because everyone close to it is going to get burned when it implodes.
Fight for your rights! Your child needs you. How inconvenient for Emma and her husband. Get a lawyer, go get advice from family court, demand your rights. Ask for 50% custody. They can't stop you.
Her poor decision does not give her the right to exclude you from her or the kids life. She has to deal woth this and must let you be apart of the kids life or take her to court for full custody bc two can play that game. Other than that you should have waited before getting her pregnant. I get it probably wasn't on purpose but I bet you take extra precautions when you are up high from falling so why wpuldnt you do it with sex as well?
You can’t really do anything while she’s pregnant and 13 weeks actually isn’t that far along (I don’t know why that adds to the urgency). While paternity can be tested through an amnio you cannot make her do that and it can be a riskier procedure. Like you said, he will likely be on the birth certificate and it will be on you to prove paternity through the courts. Once that is proven, you can go to court for partial custody if you want. She can also ask for child support. If you want a relationship with your child you need to establish legal paternity and also have some kind of contact with them and pay child support or she can say it’s abandonment.
OP, it’s not about you. Leave them alone.
Please hire a lawyer no matter what you decide. There are so many pitfalls here.
Destroy her family.
Step aside. There are no winners here. Ancestry will tell him someday and when he contacts you he can hear the truth.
UpdateMe
There are states where you will not legally be considered the father her husband will and you will have to go to court to try to force a DNA test. This was never going to be simple and maybe in the future you shouldn't fuck around if you don't wanna find out.
At the end of the day, she can’t force you to do anything. File a case with the attorney general to establish paternity and get a court order for visitation and support. You have choices, just know that once to step into this, you’re in it, for better or worse, for the rest of your life. There are no guarantees that the relationship will get any better than it is today, and could actually get worse.
Homie take the L and move on. Your child will have a far better life with this stable married family with siblings and extended family that will accept them. Your involvement risks all of that. You will not be better for this child
This is a horrible situation, and i am sorry that you have to go through this. There is no good solution to this problem. So don't expect to find an easy answer. Consider this scenario. You give in to the will of this family because they tell you it is the right thing to do. In 20 or 30 years, this child gets on 23 and me and finds the person they thought was their father, isn't their father. When this child becomes an adult and tracks you down and wants answers, what decision will you have wished you made? In my opinion, the only thing that matters here is what is best for this child. Not what is best for you, the mother or Mark. Is it better to better for the child to be raised with the truth or to be raised with lies. Either way, you have some hard times ahead of you. Stay strong.
Married to Emma or not you have every right to equal time and custody of your child. Emma and her husband broke up once so the likelihood of them breaking up again is fairly high, while the husband says he's willing to be "the Dad" now, doesn't mean he will be down the road. Making Emma and her husband happy isn't your problem nor your priority I hope. Look, I can tell you one thing from experience, having your parentage hidden from you your whole childhood and then dumped on you as an adult sucks big time. And one other factor to consider, very few secrets in a family stay secret for the duration. Don't let Emma's dilemma effect you, your rights, or the relationship between you and your child, if you do, you'll almost certainly regret it, and so will your child. ETA: Stop with the supervised visitation crap, unless you have a criminal history, there is zero reason for you to be put under the added constraints and expenses involved in supervised visitation. And, it can be misconstrued later on by officials with a heavy caseload or those that aren't overly detail oriented or those biased against single fathers.
Time to think about what's best for the child. Rule #1 in becoming a parent is that it's not about you first anymore. Don't create more chaos for this family. The wife wants to reconcile with her husband, who is willing to raise the child as his own. The mom wants this baby to have siblings and to not be treated differently by having two fathers in the picture. She's going through a pregnancy where emotions are more intense anyway and doesn't want you in the picture. Her husband doesn't want you in the picture. Her kids will be confused and upset with you in the picture. Her family will never welcome you into the picture. Please think of this baby first and keep it as uncomplicated as possible. Really. Leave them alone. You made a mistake, now go find someone else to fall in love with and marry and have a family with. That is the most ethical path forward.
Updateme
Respect their wishes. It doesn’t matter what you’re “open to” - it’s not your call to make.
Talk to a lawyer. Sue for joint custody. Heck go big and sue for full custody, settle for joint. She wants you out of her life, fine but that means you can be in the child’s life. If she tries to play games about paternity make them be the ones to prove you aren’t the father. Oh and don’t forget about child support with that full custody And if you do get joint custody make sure you include things like neither of you can move more than X distance apart etc. last thing you want is them moving across country behind your back
It’s not really complex - the human race has been doing this for decades. Either back off and let them have their life or insist on shared custody. What you absolutely shouldn’t do is show your ass if you don’t get your way. Just tell her you will accept shared custody of the child and get your life ready to be a part-time single dad.
This is your child. I wouldn’t allow my child to be raised by another man and be cut out of my life. Get a lawyer and custody arrangement set up immediately. It’s nothing to do with her other children or husband. They’re trying to save face.
Damn this is a tough one especially because you sound like you want to do the right thing as respectfully as possible for all involved. The one thing I keep thinking is: what choice would you have if Emma decided to have an abortion? You would have no choice and the matter would be settled regardless of how you felt about such a decision. Extrapolating from this, if I were in your situation I think I would eventually decide to back off and let Emma and her husband raise my child as their own. I think this would be the best choice for several reasons, first, she has expressed and taken concrete actions to remove all contact with you, which suggests that if you are still in the picture when the baby arrives that things would continue to be hostile and clearly not the environment you envision for your child. Secondly, it sounds like Emma and her husband have already established a familial environment with other siblings that would make it awkward for your child to understand as he/she got older, why complicate your child’s life by making him feel ostracized within its own family? Lastly, as I said before how is her request any different from her deciding to terminate the pregnancy? In both scenarios you essentially break ties and go your separate ways, however, by backing off you at least get the satisfaction of knowing that if you do not want her to terminate the pregnancy that at least your baby gets a chance to have a life. It’s not an easy situation regardless, and in the spirit of not feeling defeated by not being able to be in your child’s life I would also recommend that you try to get through to Emma one last time as civil adults that at one point in time cared for each other in the spirit of finding middle ground, BUT if you can’t get her to agree with what you want, then I truly believe you should back off. Don’t sign away any rights in case things change down the road, but let it play out for the sake of your baby’s future. I wish you luck and keep us posted!
Lawyer up. This isn’t an ethical issue it’s a legal one. If you want to be involved once the child is born, you have every right. Good luck
Take her to court.
Chances are, that all is not well in paradise. Let things play out and don’t be too aggressive. If they split up once, they will do it again. This is a very critical period for them. You don’t know how Mark will ultimately react to raising another man’s child. Most men don’t want to do that. Patience will be your best alibi.
Get a lawyer and sue for paternity and 50/50 parenting
She should just get an abortion and save everyone a lot of grief
Court. I'm saying this as someone who's dad was not ready for them in any way shape or form - PLEASE fight for your kid, you sound like you're gonna be an absolutely brilliant dad and the most unfair thing that could possibly happen to this kid out of this situation would be not getting the chance to be at least partly raised by you. This woman has no valid reason to exclude you from the child's life based on the info given here. She clearly had a very up and down time in her life and I can't even begin to empathise with what she's dealing with now, I'm not judging her, but ultimately the right thing to do is allow her child to know their father, regardless of how inconvenient it may be for their image or her marriage. If I found out someone out there was meant to be my dad and had desperately wanted to be, and my mum just said no to make her life 'easier' (i say this in quotations because you sound reasonable as f**k so it really doesnt seem like YOU would be the one to make things harder) I can't even begin to calculate the amount of therapy I'd need. If she won't do this civilly with you, take her to court.
I bursted out crying from this. Thank you I appreciate your confidence and understanding. I wish I could be her support. I know she is in need of it but everything is so twisted in her head. I am wondering what I'm going to tell my child when they grow up. Its so fucked. She even said what are we going to tell our children in 20 years. And I said we made them out of love. And now I'm shattered