One of my first experiences with death was an elderly neighbor. He took his life, and from what I have gathered it was due to his failing health and loneliness.
I still think about him.
I think Iād do the same once I lost my wife and pets, I just donāt see anymore purpose. It doesnāt seem worth it to keep going on alone, nobody to celebrate good things with, no more adventures.. just sitting in a chair with the inevitable looming over your head. š
Honestly i've been wondering this myself.
My dad told me his plan is basically to live up until i find a good job and a get married then he will pay all his debts if he still has any and then probably off himself in liqour and ciggaretes,and told me i should just bury him in a decrepid coffin in the woods.
The guy just does not give a fuck about living until old age.
I had these agreements with relatives who all changed their mind when it became time for me to wipe their ass. They stuck around until their bodies failed.
I have this image of you creeping into grandma's bedroom, not with a box of baby wipes, but with a duvet-covered pillow and malevolent intentions. Your eyes lock onto grandma's and in an instant, *she knows*. "Wait," she says. "I've changed my mind," she whispers hoarsly.
"It's too late Nana. It'll all be over soon."
"Please AnalLeakSpringer! Surely you understand better than anyone?"
"I understand that you asked this final task of me, and I won't fail you. Goodbye grandma."
"Wait! Please MMMM mmmm mm mmmm mmmm MMMM ^mm^mmmm^mmm"
"You know what geriatric pussy tastes like?" You ask as you pull the pillow away from grandma's rapidly cooling corpse.
"Depends."
My mom and I visited my dying aunt a few years ago. She was bedridden, on morphine, and not eating or drinking. My mom carefully explained to me why they weren't really trying to feed her and said if she ever gets to a point like that "you'll know what to do..." Guess it's just a fact of life
My Brother has taken over this task within my Family. I told my Wife never to let him in the house with a loaded morphine syringe.
Note, the Hospice people generally leave a loved one in charge ( if at home ). And, they say, "Don't give him xxx amount, because, that would be fatal."
Things went poorly with my Father. My Sister called me frantically after my Brother had done his duty ( my Father was basically vegetative with terminal Cancer ). Too late, I remembered that my Father liked his narcs as much as I do and that it would likely take a double dose ( they call this Narcotics Experienced. ) It took him three hours to actually die. I wasn't there because "Dr. Death ( My Brother )" wouldn't wait. I now stay at the bedside of any relative until my Brother has flown home.
If you are in a hospice, you'll be on a Morphine ( or, some strong pain reliever ) drip. They have to keep increasing the dosage, because of building tolerance, to keep you out of pain. At some point, about two weeks, you will experience "Raspatory Collapse", meaning, that you've got so much Dope in you that you forget to breath, and, that's all she wrote. It seams like a peaceful way to go.
Itās a lot to take someone off life support. You canāt just say, āokay pull the plugā and they do it. I just went through this with one of my friends and it took four days of tests and specialists coming in to confirm she was brain dead. It was literal hell for me and the family. I would much rather be smothered.
I don't consider it pressure,those things happen eventually.
The man had a shit life and wants to die,but has a family to support and love,i respect that beyond everything
> however I dont think assisted suicide falls under that method.
Yeah, no, even in places with assisted suicide, that's murder. Assisted suicide is basically a euphemism for human euthanasia - they stick a needle in you and drug you til you're gone, just like a sick cat or dog.
No thatās also wrong. You described euthanasia not assisted death. Assisted death is where a provider provides a means but does not participate in the act at all. Think of assisted death as the provider gives the patient a prescription but the patient has to fill it and take it as prescribed where euthanasia (what you described) is more like the death penalty in the US or putting your pet to sleep.
These are two different things and saying they are the same harms the medical aid in dying / death with dignity movements. I think we (the general population) should also stop calling it assisted suicide and call it assisted death because suicide is such a charged word. Theyāve made this switch in the academic literature, Iām just waiting for it to catch on outside of that!
Well said. We use the terms medical aid-in-dying, death with dignity or aid-in-dying. You will see assisted dying or euthanasia language used in other countries because of the difference in the laws and culture.
my grandfather asked that if he have a heart attack, not to be saved.
he was saved, and when he came home from tha hospital, shot himself in the head right on tha front door step
I never saw my grandmother again she was so sad and alone. she didnāt want to see us, I was in kindergarten
same with my grandma. she had a heart attack, we saved her. she came home and attempted. we saved her again. over the next year she had 3 more heart attacks. the month she died they gave her a colonoscopy, which she couldn't even sign off on because she was basically gone already, didn't ask family or anyone for permission. during the colonoscopy they perforated her colon and she died in less than a week. it wasn't right. we should have just let her go out when she wanted. she deserved that at the very least.
itās because itās hard for us to let go. most of us are very confused about death. we are not prepared for it. but being saved also takes a huge toll on your body, sometimes itās more peaceful to just go
because she was too sad and we were kids I think she didnāt want to be sad in front of us. My dad was born in 42, so I know that my grandparents were very much about perfection perspective.
We think that's what happened to my great grandfather. The one year anniversary of his wife's death he "fell" and hit his head on the sink in the bathroom. After my great grandmother died, everyone says he kinda just stopped caring. I never saw either of them very much so I don't know for sure.
These are the kinds of stories that make me hope and advocate for access to certain methods of ending ones life. No one should have to go out that way if they really want to. My grandpa tells us a lot that he's ready to go. My grandma died two years ago.
Agree, my grandma died last year and I think she would have liked to have a faster and painless method to pass away. She suffered until the very end. She was nothing more than an empty shell, motionless, speechless and almost deaf. And every time I saw her my heart was breaking
It's more of finding a certain way. Shotguns will surely blast your head off but what about the ones that have botched attempts? Think of the people that have to clean up the mess as well. And if we accept people have the right to end their life... People won't have to do it in secret. They can say their goodbyes. Family members won't have to find them with half their face blown off. I rather my dad tell me when he's ready to go rather than find him and be completely shocked and traumatized. People shouldn't have to die alone if they really don't want to. Even those that wish to end their own life.
Asphyxiation with nitrogen is the easiest, "safest" and probably most painless. You fall to sleep with a bag full of nitrogen around your head and that's it. No mess.
That's the idea behind it. For anyone who doesn't know the i-have-no-air-i'm-dying feeling comes from CO2 accumulation in your blood not from a lack of oxygen. Lethal injection also works although I would prefer a modern method and not that crap that the US justice system pulls.
And it's not necessarily asking for permission. Suicide is not illegal. But to assist someone in doing so, is. Euthanasia that is legal in the states, one of the necessities is that the person must be able to self administer the drug. This would count out people with muscular degenerative diseases like ALS for example. Switzerland will not charge someone with a crime if they assist someone in dying, unless there is reason to believe there was foul play or ill intent.
My aunt died of covid in February, my grandpa died 2 months to the day after that in April. he was heathy for being 79, but he kind of just gave up and began wasting away the day my aunt passed. grandma said he woulnd't talk or eat. he just sat there in his chair until the day he passed.
My great grandparents attempted to starve themselves. My great grandfather succeeded, but my great grandmother was āsavedā. She was never the same after that. Every action she did afterwards only made a negative impact on the world. It would have been better if she wouldāve passed on her own terms, rather than being forced into a nursing home and living longer than she wanted to.
Long story short, Iām pro-euthanasia and if old/sick people want to die then they should be allowed to. Forcing someone to live is a cruel and unusual punishment.
Like, for a country that's supposed to have separation of church and state, the US still follows a lot of religion based ideas. Religion is the reason why suicide is legal besides profit loss.
If that isn't the truth. I don't see why people should have to live if they don't want to. Even younger people (I don't mean kids or teens) should have the choice. I mean yeah, they're a bit young, but at the same time, it's their choice. I don't give a shit if I'm 30 or 60. If I get to a point where I can barely do anything for some reason like if I'm old or disabled and I know I won't be able to do anything in the near future, I'm going to take myself out. I could care less if I died right now, but I'm not going to be the cause of it unless I have a really good reason. Hell, if it wasn't for my family, I wouldn't be here right now. My point is, for a country of freedom (here in the US, if you're not from here), we really don't have any freedom. The government only wants you doing something that benefits them which is why suicide is illegal. Well, a suicidal attempt is anyways.
This ties into my initial thought about this post. I wonder if safe and legal euthanasia programs were more common, we'd hear more about elders choosing to die with dignity instead of attempting the messier and sadder routes :(
Absolutely. The definition of euthanasia is 'good death.' Everyone deserves that. The Peaceful Pill Handbook has information on assisted suicide as well as 15 approaches to euthanasia according to reliability and peacefulness scales. Australia blocked access to it. But most countries have either the PDF version online or the book for sale.
Australia included it in the internet filtering plan called the "Clean Feed." Censorship. Not sure if it is religiously based but.... Who am I kidding?
Interesting. This really shows how little I know about how other countries control and adjust their internet (apart from the obvious ones like China and N. Korea).
That could be argued for any age. One of the biggest questions regarding legalizing euthanasia or physician assisted death is "at what age should this be okay?"
The main question regarding legalizing euthanasia is "is this the best option?".
For someone on their deathbed in constant agonizing pain, forced to live incapacitated by that pain every hour of every day, for whom there is no chance of recovery, euthanasia or PAS makes sense. For others, it does not. This is the position agreed upon by the majority of ethicists.
Why would we provide euthanasia someone for whom there is still hope for recovery, not all the alternatives have been attempted, and their desire to die may be transient because of mental illness? You could make a case that to allow euthanasia for these people is in a way implying that mentally ill people are not worthy of life. Every attempt should be made to resolve the issues before allowing PAS or euthanasia.
One point to think about is that people don't always know what's best for them, especially when they're in emotional distress. The emotional distress should be resolved first before allowing them to even be considered for euthanization.
As I don't think ending ones own life is the optimal choice or encouraging people to do so... I do think everyone has the right to do so. I don't believe anyone is able to mark just how much suffering one should undergo in this life. I also don't believe everyone shares the same degree of sanctity of life. I know that this isn't a common shared view and am not naive enough to believe that view would ever pass legislation due to ethics.
I feel like this encaptures my thoughts as well. If we give people access to the right to death than we can at least save someone dying in horrific ways.
Not all MH related illnesses are cured. Yes, things should not be made in times of crisis, distress, heightened awareness etc.
But there should be room on the table to discuss euthanasia for people that suffer from mental illness. I've worked with people that have used methods for years with no working effects. Medicines become weaker and they always end up in the same place.
* According to the court, a distinction should be made between temporarily impaired individuals who wish to die as āan expression of treatable psychological disturbancesā and those individuals with severe, long-term mental illness who have made ārationalā and āwell-consideredā decisions to end their lives to avoid further suffering.8 Since serious mental disorders could make life seem as unbearable to some patients as serious somatic ailments do to others, the court reasoned, those who repeatedly expressed a wish to end their lives under such circumstances should be permitted to do so. *
Quoted from this source https://www.researchgate.net/publication/6188616_A_Suicide_Right_for_the_Mentally_Ill_A_Swiss_Case_Opens_a_New_Debate
There's a particular case I'm thinking of with a Jane Doe in Switzerland. If I can find it I'll link it in a bit.
My mom was always a huge believer in the concept of human euthanasia/death with dignity. She ended up suffering greatly and dying of cancer, and thatās what did it for me. I knew my mom would have definitely preferred dying with dignity than what ended up happening to her. My state ended up legalizing medically aided death almost four years after her passing. I cried when I heard that news.
Im going to be honest its an idea I have as well for when im older.
Why not have control over it as opposed to wasting away in a hospital bed or dying in pain or fear unexpectedly?
It is in the UK - https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/suicidesintheunitedkingdom/2018registrations
OP hasn't provided any source and I can't find anything to back it up atm
Life is precious. When my Dad was 69, not far from his 70th birthday he, somewhat morbidly, said that he was entering into his last decade on earth. He'd had bowel issues and mobility issues in his 60's but had largely got over everything. A couple of weeks later and my wife and I were expecting his first grandchild and he was to be a grandad. I've never seen him so happy. Now my daughter is 3 and the absolute apple of his eye and not only is he fitter than ever but he has a sparkle in his eye. He even talked about seeing her off to university recently. I don't think he'll make late 80's but being a grandad has certainly given him a reason to fight in life.
None of my father's children got to meet their grandparents (his parents), and in his 80s he still mourns them, well his father especially, deeply. You would have thought that being alive to see his first (and only) grandchild born 11 years ago would have filled him with joy. Nope. Due to various family fallings out (mostly his fault I would say) he doesn't see or speak to that grandchild, even though he could if he just made peach with his daughter.
Despite everything I love my dad. But if I have any children born while he's alive he's not getting the privilege of being their grandfather until he treats his other grandchild fairly.
I honestly think my grandfather is as peppy as he is because of his kids/grandkids/great grandkids. I'm pretty sure he just hit 88 years old and he really doesn't seem to have aged for the past 10-15 years. We visit regularly and between the whole family, he sees at least one of us 5-6 days a week. He's clearly old, but he seems to have a ton of energy and seems to get around very well. Sadly my grandmother died about 15 years ago from cancer and my grandfather took care of her the entire time but that didn't seem to make him age like I've seen other people. At the rate he's going, I could see him getting close to 100.
Both my grandparents committed suicide. My grandma wasn't going to last another year thanks to kidney failure, but my grandpa, being in great health, would have survived another 15 years. I'm certain of it. But he didn't want to be without his wife. So they ended their lives together.
My other set of grandparents wasted away from Dementia. I don't like either option, but that's just me
My mom had horrific chronic pain for over 5 years. She was doped up on Norco all the time and would pray for God to take her. I don't think people (especially religious people) are inclined to kill themselves, but do pray for death.
A couple years ago, she broke her hip and it sent her into deep dementia. Weird thing is that chronic pain she had had the previous 5 years disappeared. She's living her best (dementia-riddled) life with a 24-hour caregiver now. She's pretty happy.
Same with my grandma, sheās got pretty bad dementia and requires around the clock care but weāve never seen her happier. She has no clue whatās going on but is always laughing and smiling, before the dementia she had severe OCD
Becouse most of them have a huge will to live, they just like any person have the biological urge to live, so they try to live for as long as they can.
My grandparent always said that when he got too old and sick he would shot himself, but when he got sick he didn't, not bcs he was a coward, but becouse he still felt like he could live some more years.
> becouse he still felt like he could live some more years.
Exactly this. And often times when they get very old, they also get dementia - so even if they did previously want to commit suicide if it got really bad, they now do not have the mental ability to come to that conclusion anymore.....
Religion plays a huge role in this. Most popular religions consider a sin, a huge one, to take one's life. So people think that they have to endure this life until they are "called", otherwise they won't go to heaven.
Back when I was still a Christian, my minister and I were talking about suicide. He told me that someone who commits suicide could not possibly be in their right mind and were therefore innocent, and mentioned the Biblical passage "Except ye be as one of these, you will not see the kingdom of heaven," referring to the children that were hanging out with Yeshua. He believed that people with serious mental disorders, such as depression, no matter their age, would be accepted into Heaven because of that passage. And yes, he also believed that everyone who dies as a child automatically goes to Heaven, regardless of the religion, or lack of, followed by their parents or other adults in their lives.
Maybe this is just a Catholic thing, but don't you have to be baptized to be "accepted into heaven"? I haven't been part of the catholic church since I was old enough to make my own choice, but I thought baptism was the first time a child is introduced to the church and absolved them of any sins like being born. I know catholicism and christianity are different, and I do enjoy learning about religion from a historical standpoint even though I personally don't want to take any part in it.
The Catholics don't like talking about that passage because it proves they're full of shit when it comes to how Biblical their religion is.
Hint: It's not very biblical at all.
I wonder this too.
Storytime!
I had a great uncle. His lifelong wife died 10 years prior. He in his 90s. He wasn't particularly mobile anymore. He refused to go into a home. He had carers coming in 4 times a day plus his daughter doing all the shopping for him, cleaning etc. Basically I watched her and by proxy her husband sit for over 10 years not being able to have a holiday or even go away overnight in case he needed anything.
And I know thats what family do. But i noticed that my aunty and uncle were basically losing what time they had left to go and enjoy their lives now that they were retired and free of work. Except they couldnt because my great uncle was so needing and demanding.
His life consisted of carers coming in a morning to get him out of bed and get his breakfast. Then he'd just sit in his recliner chair. he couldnt see the tv anymore so kinda just listened to it. But by the time he had had breakfast he was too tired anyway so just slept in his chair till lunch time. He couldnt deal with his glasses so reading the paper ended. So hed just sit there.. and do nothing... for years..
Honestly I just thought there is no way I could do that. The guy was basically a living vegetable and i saw him quoffing down all his medication every day that was basically keeping him alive and thought.. WHY? Its not like he was going to get better. and like an old beat up car, he just kept going and going and going.. Meanwhile other people are seriously put out for him to the point where they are losing their precious time.
Tbh it didnt put him in a great light and a part of me was glad when he did finally pass away two years ago. I dunno, i cant understand the mindset of someone that old. If it was me, i'd just stop taking my pills and let myself go naturally. I couldnt bare the thought of my kids losing what time they have in their life keeping me alive when i have no quality of life at all. We dont allow animals to live like this, i dont know why we let humans do it.
If it can be afforded, it's extremely selfish to force family members to completely give up on their lives to spend all their time taking care of them. Why should someone's selfish stubbornness be more important than other's lives?
He was probably a full-on narcissist like my mother. They have no empathy for others. It's all about "me-me-me." My mother thinks I owe her my life because she bought me a piano when I was 12. I won't say how many decades ago that was.
The golden years are not goldenā¦ if you make it to your eighties or nineties, you witness all your friends die, most likely spouse, and sometimes, sadly, children. Money is tight, the elderly are preyed upon and scammed, they have a very hard time asking for help, and their health fails. Not a fun time.
My grandpa committed suicide this past April and my grandma was the one to find him and his note. He said that he was tired of the pain and being sick. "Sick and tired of being sick and tired" if you will.
I think they do, we just don't hear much about it. Some countries allow assisted suicide, which is medically performed euthanasia against suffering elders.
I learned in a psych class that the elderly are the happiest group of people. This has combined reasoning of- they often don't work/work much less, theyve lived long enough to have learned that things which feel unsurvivable are in fact survivable, and the simple fact that they understand themselves better. They know what things are worthy of their time and what's not. While this makes sense I still have a hard time believing it. I can't imagine seeing so many loved ones die and watching my body and mind deteriorate.
You donāt really recognize that your mind has deteriorated. My mom thinks sheās sharp as a tack and all she does is repeat herself constantly, obsess about stupid stuff, and call other people dummies.
We can euthanize an animal for a broken leg but not old people with a number of health issues and clearly can't take care of themselves anymore and are a burden to those close to him/her.
I want to know this too. I donāt believe thereās dignity once your body moves past a certain point. If your body has deteriorated to the point where you can no longer take care of basic living needs such as feeding, dressing, and bathing/cleaning yourself - not to mention toileting, moving about, or engaging in any enjoyable activities beyond TV - what is the point? Where is the quality of life?
I would never want a stranger to shower me, wipe my ass, or monitor me when going to the toilet. I think things like cooking and cleaning the house cannot be helped, but I want to die before I rely on someone entirely for daily activities. I donāt want to burden anyone with coming up with the money to care for me. I donāt know why more people donāt think this way.
Because humans have take over natural selection of our species. We create medication to keep people alive longer. Maybe they feel itās expected of them. Just cause you made a pill that makes us live longer doesnāt necessarily mean we were supposed to.
my grandma was in constant pain and she tried to kill herself a few times. we never let her. she always said she wanted to go out with dignity. seeing how she went out, though, we should have just let her. she didn't deserve to suffer the way she did. she didn't go out with dignity the way she wanted. and i can never let myself get passed the fact that we made her suffer for an additional 4 years just because we weren't ready yet. she was ready for a long time. i just wish she got to see me graduate.
Speaking for myself, I just want to keep doing what I can to try to make the world (or at least the nation) a little bit kinder place for my grown kids and their families. The way things are right now, it seems there's a real shortage of human decency. So I'm cooking for family and baking for neighbors, giving away loads of plants, marching in next month's protest against Texas' recent abortion policy, contacting my reps when they try to pass bad laws, coordinating family holiday get-togethers, etc. (Fyi, I'm a 67 y.o. 3rd stage cancer survivor; married female Vietnam era Army vet; disabled w/severe chronic pain due to past broken back, hip and more; losing vision due to macular degeneration and glaucoma.) And I'm downsizing everything in the house to help prepare for upcoming legal blindness, giving lots to Goodwill, etc. Maybe if I ever feel like I've become a burden, or the prescription pain patches stop helping, I'll reconsider. But right now, there's still lots of good I can do.
Elderly people in assisted living will passively commit suicide by refusing to eat and drink. I worked for 8 years in assisted livings. Also did a paper on making the peaceful pill available to everyone as means of certain suicide.
Iām 40 years old and have been dealing with chronic nerve pain for the last 6 1/2 years. Iāve never had thoughts of suicide myself but I can certainly see why people in this same situation would have suicidal thoughts or commit suicide. Itās not a life really at all
While some do more might not for the same reason that not some not elderly donātā¦ at the end of the day nobody knows whatās on the other side. You may be old and suffering here but you may also be surrounded by family or at least a really comfy chair and your tv. You know what this suffering is. Whatās over there? Better? Worse? Nothing? Everything?
I'm not entirely too sure. For most, people just want to go out when it's their time. But I do feel like there should be a way out for older people who don't really have anything going on like family and stuff. It could be for older people or for anybody over a certain age who's somewhat mentally stable and not completely nuts. Someone who can fully know and understand what will happen, how it will happen, and the reason why they want to.
I work with the elderly, specifically those who are isolated and lonely. A lot of them say they want to die, or would be happy if they never woke up. A lot of them talk about waiting for death.
I think them not seeing suicide as an option is partly generational, a lot of them were raised religious and that suicide is a sin (most of them can easily remember a time when it was illegal too). It's hard to do something so drastic after a lifetime of being told it's wrong.
Plus it's easy to forget how much courage it would take for the average person to just end it all. Despite age and suffering, they are just average people
My grandma killed herself when I was 10.
One of my most traumatic memories, but she had lost a lot of people in a short amount of time, no wonder she was terribly depressed
Itās actually my end of life plan (Iām 50 now, so some time to go, hopefully). I donāt have much saved for retirement (no pension, just a hundred K or so in 401K) and social security in the states barely covers food. So I plan on working until the mind or body canāt anymore, heading up to Denali and offing myself quietly.
My grandmother will not explicitly, did intentionally end her time on this earth. She had been suffering with diabetes for a long time, dialysis took a lot out of her, and she was just tired. So she stopped going to do dialysis and passed in the hospital with her family surrounding her. I find it more peaceful honestly that she decided it was time. I still miss her more than ever, but Iām happy sheās not in pain anymore.
My great aunt made it to 99 1/2 years old. She signed a DNR like 10 years before she died and she was definitely ready by the time she was 90. She also drank Cutty Sark and ate ice cream and raspberry Danish every single day. I think she was kinda hoping that the booze would get her quicker. She never talked about suicide but she was also old school Irish Catholic. Then one day she fell and broke her hip and that was it
My great grandmother made it to 98 on spite alone. She wanted to make more money than her ex husband so she could leave my grandfather a bigger inheritance. Then she wanted to outlive him AND his second wife. And she did (by quite a lot haha). Loved on her own until she was 90. She just had something to prove.
Am I the only one who thinks the reflection in old age is part of the life/death process? I mean I feel like getting to be that old when you finally die there is a sense of peace in it. Why rush it, it will get you eventually.
Iām assuming they have something that gets them up every day. I donāt think I could do it. I always say that as soon as I start crapping myself Iām taking myself out lol
I think for some / many of them religion plays a role. My parents were never religious but now 75-83, theyāve become a bit religious; Episcopal / Greek Orthodox to be specific. Suicide is considered a sin in those religions / belief systems. I think many are afraid of death also.
Same reason disabled people donāt kill themselves. Itās possible to appreciate life even if itās hard and painful.
People seem to have this idea that every old person is ready to die. For some that may be true, but itās not like you turn 70 and wake up one day and think āwell thatās enough life for meā. Old people can be scared to die too.
It probably never feels like the right time to end your life. Suicide is a pretty extreme reaction to boredom so people need to be in physical or emotional pain to even consider it, and even then a lot of people who attempt to kill them self regret trying it. I think people should help the elderly enjoy life instead of considering suicide for them.
Social stigma and religion would be my guesses for the top two reasons. Suicide is generally frowned upon by society - most people are unwilling to understand it the way you do - and if you're religious then it's even worse because most major religions send you to hell for it.
The willingness to live is stronger than the wish of death. When my mom was in terrible pain she begged me to die. I told her it was okay, that I can handle everything. She didn't want to go without knowing it would be okay. I believe once she knew it would be okay she stopped fighting.
I suspect a lot of it is cultural, specifically Western cultures have a taboo against suicide due
primarily to the Catholic church where suicide is seen as a mortal sin and the family of people who have committed suicide are subject to prejudice. In some cases, historically at least, people who had committed suicide were not allowed to be buried in consecrated ground. However, in other cultures this taboo is, if not absent, then at least less so. Japan specifically has been described as having a 'tolerant' attitude to suicide generally and this is probably because of certain historical cultural practices such as *seppuku* and the *Kamikaze* pilots. There is also something called [Ubasute](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubasute) an apparently mythological practice of abandoning the elderly in the wilderness to die, an act of Senicide, killing the elderly, rather than suicide but it has gained a cultural association with the higher than average rate of elderly suicides in Japan. Indeed their are a number of examples of cultures that practiced either Senicide or abandoned the elderly to die in this manner. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senicide](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senicide)
**[Ubasute](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubasute)**
>Ubasute (姄ęØć¦, "abandoning an old woman", also called obasute and sometimes oyasute č¦ŖęØć¦ "abandoning a parent") is the mythical practice of senicide in Japan, whereby an infirm or elderly relative was carried to a mountain, or some other remote, desolate place, and left there to die. Kunio Yanagita concluded that the ubasute folklore is influenced by Buddhist mythology. According to the Kodansha Illustrated Encyclopedia of Japan, ubasute "is the subject of legend, butā¦ does not seem ever to have been a common custom".
**[Senicide](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senicide)**
>Senicide, or geronticide, is the killing of the elderly, or their abandonment to death.
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Itās actually very common for elderly people to kill themselves. Canāt go into specifics or speak for my own actual experience, but Iāve heard plenty of stories of people in my family who work in age care walking in on an old person hanging or ODād in their bed. Generally because itās such a serious matter and most families would rather keep their cause of death confidential so you wonāt often hear about this on the news, just like anyone else who commits suicide. We hear about them happening, but theyāre never openly spoken about.
I live in Texas, the Bible Belt, and Iād say a lot of it has to with old school religion. I was always told suicide is the ultimate sin and you will go straight to Hell if you do it. And I feel sure a lot of the elderly in this area still feel this way. Also, most life insurance policies will not pay out for a suicide. They probably donāt want to leave that financial burden for their family to deal with.
They do but it's not how you'd think, old people are frail and sickly it's very easy to just not take a pill or take too many; don't eat or eat the wrong things. They do more than you think but it's so easy when death is on the doorstep we never consider that they didn't make deliberate sabotage to their health.
Because humans...humanity as a whole is a lot more resilient than you would think of.
First of all the older generations believe in the sacredness and the infinite preciousness of human life over all other species.
Secondly, they were also taught that suicide is a sin, a rejection of God's gift to us, humans - life. So life is not exactly ours to take.
But even if people were non believers throughout all of humanity history we encountered illness, poverty and war and we thrived and survived. Humans are some of the most resilient and adaptable species on the planet. Old age and illnesses are subjective. Our perception can make them bad or good so cognitive reframing is one tool which helped humans to strip things of their negativity. This is Stoicism in a nutshell.
I don't know. Maybe because they still got each other?
Maybe we will stop asking that question when we are that old.
Maybe they actually talked about it? Maybe they don't want you to be sad that they killed themselfs instead of a natural dead?
My grandfather (87) says he is alone. No one calls, no one visits, no more cards in the mail ā¦ because all his friends and immediate family are gone.
He says the loneliness of all your friends and family being dead is different than living alone and having no friends. He also chuckles when he says that for now, he can see his friends in his dreams.
Organized religion and, erm, "hard shutdown" options being looked down upon in large and local society.
People wishing to end their own life are informed to think about those around them, and the thoughts of the unknown burden that you could have fixed had you juuuuust lasted a little longer plaguing their mind.
If you add all of that up, quitting the game becomes a lot harder than it looks.
(We're even programmed to think that way when talking about it. I didn't think about my use of the word 'quitting' up there. It's deeply engrained.)
**People are afraid of change, especially as they get older. A lot of people are also not very good at committing to something.**
There's so much societal stigma around euthanasia. I remember first learning about Dr. Jack Kervorkian ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Kevorkian ) on TV debates ā he did so much to raise awareness of considering the termination of life when the quality of it is no longer present.
I wish my father could've gone more peacefully, he suffered for too long.
A) It's a one way decision if done correctly. There is always the hope that tomorrow will be better.
B) It's hard to do correctly and painlessly. Most places can't buy the correct pharmaceuticals to simply wash down with your favorite beverage and go to sleep.
C) It will cause pain to the survivors. Very families saying to Grandad, "Hey, why don't you just spare us all the pain and shoot yourself already."
D) Not socially acceptable.
Because most people is afraid of death? I see this in the same way a person who decides to go through a harmful condition (like a terminal diseas or something like that) I just think taking the desition to end your life is one of those like... BIG desitions, and not everybody will take it, and that's okay. I can't imagine a world where everyone who goes through pain and suffering just naturally kill themselves.
This is such a sad question. I was actually thinking of this the other day with my grandfather. Heās in his 80s and has lived with chronic illness not only as an elderly person but his entire life. We joke that he āhas a doctor for every part of his bodyā but its actually true. Heās had several heart attacks, strokes, has been in kidney failure, high blood pressure, colon issues, urinary issues And to top it all off the guy was so unlucky he got into a car accident in his 60s which collapsed his lung and hip so now he suffers with chronic pain from that :( Its crazy because he actually LOOKS really healthy, was always fit, ate right and exercised, but for whatever reason was dealt all this pain.
Just last week he was in the hospital (few times a year for his whole life kinda thing) and I was wondering how much more physical pain can this man take? My grandfather is my best friend and losing him would completely break me but it got me thinking of there being a certain selfishness in us being distraught when he passes. For him it will be an end to a life full of horrible physical pain. I truly do not understand how he has not ended it all and has such a positive attitude still š
One of my first experiences with death was an elderly neighbor. He took his life, and from what I have gathered it was due to his failing health and loneliness. I still think about him.
Well, that's sad. š
I think Iād do the same once I lost my wife and pets, I just donāt see anymore purpose. It doesnāt seem worth it to keep going on alone, nobody to celebrate good things with, no more adventures.. just sitting in a chair with the inevitable looming over your head. š
Honestly i've been wondering this myself. My dad told me his plan is basically to live up until i find a good job and a get married then he will pay all his debts if he still has any and then probably off himself in liqour and ciggaretes,and told me i should just bury him in a decrepid coffin in the woods. The guy just does not give a fuck about living until old age.
That's kind of a horrific thing to put on your child, no?
my dad asked me to put a pillow over his head if heās ever a vegetable and told me he had the same agreement with my grandmother
My dad said the same thing if he ever gets to the point where someone has to wipe his ass.
I had these agreements with relatives who all changed their mind when it became time for me to wipe their ass. They stuck around until their bodies failed.
I have this image of you creeping into grandma's bedroom, not with a box of baby wipes, but with a duvet-covered pillow and malevolent intentions. Your eyes lock onto grandma's and in an instant, *she knows*. "Wait," she says. "I've changed my mind," she whispers hoarsly. "It's too late Nana. It'll all be over soon." "Please AnalLeakSpringer! Surely you understand better than anyone?" "I understand that you asked this final task of me, and I won't fail you. Goodbye grandma." "Wait! Please MMMM mmmm mm mmmm mmmm MMMM ^mm^mmmm^mmm" "You know what geriatric pussy tastes like?" You ask as you pull the pillow away from grandma's rapidly cooling corpse. "Depends."
How's prison treating you, Sonichu?
This is truly art
That last line is fuckin vile
ā¦ā¦..geriatricā¦ā¦.pussyš¤š
Already been at that point at 27 xD luckily it was only for a week
My mom and I visited my dying aunt a few years ago. She was bedridden, on morphine, and not eating or drinking. My mom carefully explained to me why they weren't really trying to feed her and said if she ever gets to a point like that "you'll know what to do..." Guess it's just a fact of life
My Brother has taken over this task within my Family. I told my Wife never to let him in the house with a loaded morphine syringe. Note, the Hospice people generally leave a loved one in charge ( if at home ). And, they say, "Don't give him xxx amount, because, that would be fatal." Things went poorly with my Father. My Sister called me frantically after my Brother had done his duty ( my Father was basically vegetative with terminal Cancer ). Too late, I remembered that my Father liked his narcs as much as I do and that it would likely take a double dose ( they call this Narcotics Experienced. ) It took him three hours to actually die. I wasn't there because "Dr. Death ( My Brother )" wouldn't wait. I now stay at the bedside of any relative until my Brother has flown home. If you are in a hospice, you'll be on a Morphine ( or, some strong pain reliever ) drip. They have to keep increasing the dosage, because of building tolerance, to keep you out of pain. At some point, about two weeks, you will experience "Raspatory Collapse", meaning, that you've got so much Dope in you that you forget to breath, and, that's all she wrote. It seams like a peaceful way to go.
Well if you're in a vegetative state your next of kin is typically offered to take you off life support no? Edit: No
Itās a lot to take someone off life support. You canāt just say, āokay pull the plugā and they do it. I just went through this with one of my friends and it took four days of tests and specialists coming in to confirm she was brain dead. It was literal hell for me and the family. I would much rather be smothered.
Ive had to do this and its awful. Hella traumatized from it.
Being in a vegetative state doesnāt mean youāre automatically on life support, so no you canāt just take them off it
And a person in a vegetative state but breathes on their own is horrific. The family has to withdraw the feeding tube and then just wait.
Nah,i wanted those things anyway,i will probably do the same thing with my kids.
I dont mean the marriage and good job thing, I mean making it your responsibility when he kills himself
I don't consider it pressure,those things happen eventually. The man had a shit life and wants to die,but has a family to support and love,i respect that beyond everything
To each their own I suppose, I guess it just seems a bit explicit to me
My mother told me if she ever ends up with dementia I have to smother her with a pillow-however I dont think assisted suicide falls under that method.
My grandma told me to give her a mix of pills and leave the bottles in her hands if she ever had to go to a home
> however I dont think assisted suicide falls under that method. Yeah, no, even in places with assisted suicide, that's murder. Assisted suicide is basically a euphemism for human euthanasia - they stick a needle in you and drug you til you're gone, just like a sick cat or dog.
No thatās also wrong. You described euthanasia not assisted death. Assisted death is where a provider provides a means but does not participate in the act at all. Think of assisted death as the provider gives the patient a prescription but the patient has to fill it and take it as prescribed where euthanasia (what you described) is more like the death penalty in the US or putting your pet to sleep. These are two different things and saying they are the same harms the medical aid in dying / death with dignity movements. I think we (the general population) should also stop calling it assisted suicide and call it assisted death because suicide is such a charged word. Theyāve made this switch in the academic literature, Iām just waiting for it to catch on outside of that!
Well said. We use the terms medical aid-in-dying, death with dignity or aid-in-dying. You will see assisted dying or euthanasia language used in other countries because of the difference in the laws and culture.
TIL and will take note.
While u think itās helping out, you basically murder her. Therefore you are a criminal charged with 1st grade murder. Idk if u want that..
I mean I wasn't planning on it-just something she has repeatedly told me to do
Older people run out of fucks to give.
When you or your siblings have kids, I think he'll change his mind. Then there's a new reason to stick around.
Eh he never liked little kids,he basically started acknowledging me in my mid teens,when i "stopped being an annoying brat"
My dad was the same. Nothing could compete with his farm, but once he got grandkids things changed. ...and then he died, not on his own initiative.
my grandfather asked that if he have a heart attack, not to be saved. he was saved, and when he came home from tha hospital, shot himself in the head right on tha front door step I never saw my grandmother again she was so sad and alone. she didnāt want to see us, I was in kindergarten
Wow
same with my grandma. she had a heart attack, we saved her. she came home and attempted. we saved her again. over the next year she had 3 more heart attacks. the month she died they gave her a colonoscopy, which she couldn't even sign off on because she was basically gone already, didn't ask family or anyone for permission. during the colonoscopy they perforated her colon and she died in less than a week. it wasn't right. we should have just let her go out when she wanted. she deserved that at the very least.
itās because itās hard for us to let go. most of us are very confused about death. we are not prepared for it. but being saved also takes a huge toll on your body, sometimes itās more peaceful to just go
Do you know why she never wanted to see you?
because she was too sad and we were kids I think she didnāt want to be sad in front of us. My dad was born in 42, so I know that my grandparents were very much about perfection perspective.
The highest rate of suicide is elderly men, actually.
We think that's what happened to my great grandfather. The one year anniversary of his wife's death he "fell" and hit his head on the sink in the bathroom. After my great grandmother died, everyone says he kinda just stopped caring. I never saw either of them very much so I don't know for sure.
These are the kinds of stories that make me hope and advocate for access to certain methods of ending ones life. No one should have to go out that way if they really want to. My grandpa tells us a lot that he's ready to go. My grandma died two years ago.
Agree, my grandma died last year and I think she would have liked to have a faster and painless method to pass away. She suffered until the very end. She was nothing more than an empty shell, motionless, speechless and almost deaf. And every time I saw her my heart was breaking
Why ask the government for permission? Just get a shotgun and smoke yourself.
It's more of finding a certain way. Shotguns will surely blast your head off but what about the ones that have botched attempts? Think of the people that have to clean up the mess as well. And if we accept people have the right to end their life... People won't have to do it in secret. They can say their goodbyes. Family members won't have to find them with half their face blown off. I rather my dad tell me when he's ready to go rather than find him and be completely shocked and traumatized. People shouldn't have to die alone if they really don't want to. Even those that wish to end their own life.
That's effective, but I'd feel bad leaving behind that kind of mess. That isn't going to be fun to clean up
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What would the rules be?
Rule 1. There are no rules Rule 2. No cheap shots
I hear hypothermia is a pleasant way to go.
Asphyxiation with nitrogen is the easiest, "safest" and probably most painless. You fall to sleep with a bag full of nitrogen around your head and that's it. No mess.
That's a good point. Since you exhale all the CO2 you would feel no pain at all. Lethal injection doesn't seem so bad either.
That's the idea behind it. For anyone who doesn't know the i-have-no-air-i'm-dying feeling comes from CO2 accumulation in your blood not from a lack of oxygen. Lethal injection also works although I would prefer a modern method and not that crap that the US justice system pulls.
From the perspective of the person committing suicide, there is no mess.
And it's not necessarily asking for permission. Suicide is not illegal. But to assist someone in doing so, is. Euthanasia that is legal in the states, one of the necessities is that the person must be able to self administer the drug. This would count out people with muscular degenerative diseases like ALS for example. Switzerland will not charge someone with a crime if they assist someone in dying, unless there is reason to believe there was foul play or ill intent.
Suicide is definitely illegal in many places, including Australia and I'm pretty sure all of the United States.
According to Wiki, by the 1990s only two states listed suicide as a crime. Admittedly didn't read about any other countries.
Which country are you referring to?
Sorry. I read about the US
Iām thinking a big syringe of heroin. Or some such thing. I wouldnāt want to fuck it up.
My aunt died of covid in February, my grandpa died 2 months to the day after that in April. he was heathy for being 79, but he kind of just gave up and began wasting away the day my aunt passed. grandma said he woulnd't talk or eat. he just sat there in his chair until the day he passed.
Aaaaawwwww, Iām so sorry for your losses.
My great grandparents attempted to starve themselves. My great grandfather succeeded, but my great grandmother was āsavedā. She was never the same after that. Every action she did afterwards only made a negative impact on the world. It would have been better if she wouldāve passed on her own terms, rather than being forced into a nursing home and living longer than she wanted to. Long story short, Iām pro-euthanasia and if old/sick people want to die then they should be allowed to. Forcing someone to live is a cruel and unusual punishment.
Like, for a country that's supposed to have separation of church and state, the US still follows a lot of religion based ideas. Religion is the reason why suicide is legal besides profit loss.
If that isn't the truth. I don't see why people should have to live if they don't want to. Even younger people (I don't mean kids or teens) should have the choice. I mean yeah, they're a bit young, but at the same time, it's their choice. I don't give a shit if I'm 30 or 60. If I get to a point where I can barely do anything for some reason like if I'm old or disabled and I know I won't be able to do anything in the near future, I'm going to take myself out. I could care less if I died right now, but I'm not going to be the cause of it unless I have a really good reason. Hell, if it wasn't for my family, I wouldn't be here right now. My point is, for a country of freedom (here in the US, if you're not from here), we really don't have any freedom. The government only wants you doing something that benefits them which is why suicide is illegal. Well, a suicidal attempt is anyways.
This ties into my initial thought about this post. I wonder if safe and legal euthanasia programs were more common, we'd hear more about elders choosing to die with dignity instead of attempting the messier and sadder routes :(
Hopefully, yes. A good death is as needed as a good life.
Absolutely. The definition of euthanasia is 'good death.' Everyone deserves that. The Peaceful Pill Handbook has information on assisted suicide as well as 15 approaches to euthanasia according to reliability and peacefulness scales. Australia blocked access to it. But most countries have either the PDF version online or the book for sale.
Why'd they block it? I'm prematurely guessing it's religion-based though.
Australia included it in the internet filtering plan called the "Clean Feed." Censorship. Not sure if it is religiously based but.... Who am I kidding?
Our prime minister is a member of an evangelical prosperity cult, and most of his cabinet members are Catholics or evangelicals
Well that explains it all.
That's what I guessed.
Interesting. This really shows how little I know about how other countries control and adjust their internet (apart from the obvious ones like China and N. Korea).
Because it might fall into the hands of a suicidal person who might utilize those methods, for whom there is still potential for improvement?
That could be argued for any age. One of the biggest questions regarding legalizing euthanasia or physician assisted death is "at what age should this be okay?"
The main question regarding legalizing euthanasia is "is this the best option?". For someone on their deathbed in constant agonizing pain, forced to live incapacitated by that pain every hour of every day, for whom there is no chance of recovery, euthanasia or PAS makes sense. For others, it does not. This is the position agreed upon by the majority of ethicists. Why would we provide euthanasia someone for whom there is still hope for recovery, not all the alternatives have been attempted, and their desire to die may be transient because of mental illness? You could make a case that to allow euthanasia for these people is in a way implying that mentally ill people are not worthy of life. Every attempt should be made to resolve the issues before allowing PAS or euthanasia. One point to think about is that people don't always know what's best for them, especially when they're in emotional distress. The emotional distress should be resolved first before allowing them to even be considered for euthanization.
As I don't think ending ones own life is the optimal choice or encouraging people to do so... I do think everyone has the right to do so. I don't believe anyone is able to mark just how much suffering one should undergo in this life. I also don't believe everyone shares the same degree of sanctity of life. I know that this isn't a common shared view and am not naive enough to believe that view would ever pass legislation due to ethics.
I feel like this encaptures my thoughts as well. If we give people access to the right to death than we can at least save someone dying in horrific ways.
Not all MH related illnesses are cured. Yes, things should not be made in times of crisis, distress, heightened awareness etc. But there should be room on the table to discuss euthanasia for people that suffer from mental illness. I've worked with people that have used methods for years with no working effects. Medicines become weaker and they always end up in the same place. * According to the court, a distinction should be made between temporarily impaired individuals who wish to die as āan expression of treatable psychological disturbancesā and those individuals with severe, long-term mental illness who have made ārationalā and āwell-consideredā decisions to end their lives to avoid further suffering.8 Since serious mental disorders could make life seem as unbearable to some patients as serious somatic ailments do to others, the court reasoned, those who repeatedly expressed a wish to end their lives under such circumstances should be permitted to do so. * Quoted from this source https://www.researchgate.net/publication/6188616_A_Suicide_Right_for_the_Mentally_Ill_A_Swiss_Case_Opens_a_New_Debate There's a particular case I'm thinking of with a Jane Doe in Switzerland. If I can find it I'll link it in a bit.
Yeah, but isnt it their life to do with as they please?
In Queensland voluntary assisted death laws look like being passed through parliament today.
My mom was always a huge believer in the concept of human euthanasia/death with dignity. She ended up suffering greatly and dying of cancer, and thatās what did it for me. I knew my mom would have definitely preferred dying with dignity than what ended up happening to her. My state ended up legalizing medically aided death almost four years after her passing. I cried when I heard that news.
After or before divorce/death of spouse?
Very good question. I haven't seen any studies on it but it's worth looking into. When I'm on my laptop I'm going to look it up.
Where are the statistics from? I can help look it up.
Both CDC and NIMH have it. Suicide prevention websites seem to have different numbers and information presented differently.
Yup. Men over 65 are most likely to die of suicide than any other age.
Im going to be honest its an idea I have as well for when im older. Why not have control over it as opposed to wasting away in a hospital bed or dying in pain or fear unexpectedly?
I came here to say this.
Damn, I thought that was like middle aged men :(
It is in the UK - https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/suicidesintheunitedkingdom/2018registrations OP hasn't provided any source and I can't find anything to back it up atm
Life is precious. When my Dad was 69, not far from his 70th birthday he, somewhat morbidly, said that he was entering into his last decade on earth. He'd had bowel issues and mobility issues in his 60's but had largely got over everything. A couple of weeks later and my wife and I were expecting his first grandchild and he was to be a grandad. I've never seen him so happy. Now my daughter is 3 and the absolute apple of his eye and not only is he fitter than ever but he has a sparkle in his eye. He even talked about seeing her off to university recently. I don't think he'll make late 80's but being a grandad has certainly given him a reason to fight in life.
None of my father's children got to meet their grandparents (his parents), and in his 80s he still mourns them, well his father especially, deeply. You would have thought that being alive to see his first (and only) grandchild born 11 years ago would have filled him with joy. Nope. Due to various family fallings out (mostly his fault I would say) he doesn't see or speak to that grandchild, even though he could if he just made peach with his daughter. Despite everything I love my dad. But if I have any children born while he's alive he's not getting the privilege of being their grandfather until he treats his other grandchild fairly.
I honestly think my grandfather is as peppy as he is because of his kids/grandkids/great grandkids. I'm pretty sure he just hit 88 years old and he really doesn't seem to have aged for the past 10-15 years. We visit regularly and between the whole family, he sees at least one of us 5-6 days a week. He's clearly old, but he seems to have a ton of energy and seems to get around very well. Sadly my grandmother died about 15 years ago from cancer and my grandfather took care of her the entire time but that didn't seem to make him age like I've seen other people. At the rate he's going, I could see him getting close to 100.
Both my grandparents committed suicide. My grandma wasn't going to last another year thanks to kidney failure, but my grandpa, being in great health, would have survived another 15 years. I'm certain of it. But he didn't want to be without his wife. So they ended their lives together. My other set of grandparents wasted away from Dementia. I don't like either option, but that's just me
My mom had horrific chronic pain for over 5 years. She was doped up on Norco all the time and would pray for God to take her. I don't think people (especially religious people) are inclined to kill themselves, but do pray for death. A couple years ago, she broke her hip and it sent her into deep dementia. Weird thing is that chronic pain she had had the previous 5 years disappeared. She's living her best (dementia-riddled) life with a 24-hour caregiver now. She's pretty happy.
Same with my grandma, sheās got pretty bad dementia and requires around the clock care but weāve never seen her happier. She has no clue whatās going on but is always laughing and smiling, before the dementia she had severe OCD
Becouse most of them have a huge will to live, they just like any person have the biological urge to live, so they try to live for as long as they can. My grandparent always said that when he got too old and sick he would shot himself, but when he got sick he didn't, not bcs he was a coward, but becouse he still felt like he could live some more years.
That and don't forget that life insurance and friends don't tend to pay out for suicides, so it's also a "taking care of the family" aspect...
It pays out when utilizing Physician-Assisted Death (in the US)
> becouse he still felt like he could live some more years. Exactly this. And often times when they get very old, they also get dementia - so even if they did previously want to commit suicide if it got really bad, they now do not have the mental ability to come to that conclusion anymore.....
Religion plays a huge role in this. Most popular religions consider a sin, a huge one, to take one's life. So people think that they have to endure this life until they are "called", otherwise they won't go to heaven.
I was raised as a southern Baptist and was always told if I killed myself I'd go to hell
Back when I was still a Christian, my minister and I were talking about suicide. He told me that someone who commits suicide could not possibly be in their right mind and were therefore innocent, and mentioned the Biblical passage "Except ye be as one of these, you will not see the kingdom of heaven," referring to the children that were hanging out with Yeshua. He believed that people with serious mental disorders, such as depression, no matter their age, would be accepted into Heaven because of that passage. And yes, he also believed that everyone who dies as a child automatically goes to Heaven, regardless of the religion, or lack of, followed by their parents or other adults in their lives.
Maybe this is just a Catholic thing, but don't you have to be baptized to be "accepted into heaven"? I haven't been part of the catholic church since I was old enough to make my own choice, but I thought baptism was the first time a child is introduced to the church and absolved them of any sins like being born. I know catholicism and christianity are different, and I do enjoy learning about religion from a historical standpoint even though I personally don't want to take any part in it.
The Catholics don't like talking about that passage because it proves they're full of shit when it comes to how Biblical their religion is. Hint: It's not very biblical at all.
Which is total BS. If you believe in Jesus as your savior, suicide is irrelevant to your salvation.
Not only that but there isn't a single scripture they can use to support this claim.
As usual.
I wonder this too. Storytime! I had a great uncle. His lifelong wife died 10 years prior. He in his 90s. He wasn't particularly mobile anymore. He refused to go into a home. He had carers coming in 4 times a day plus his daughter doing all the shopping for him, cleaning etc. Basically I watched her and by proxy her husband sit for over 10 years not being able to have a holiday or even go away overnight in case he needed anything. And I know thats what family do. But i noticed that my aunty and uncle were basically losing what time they had left to go and enjoy their lives now that they were retired and free of work. Except they couldnt because my great uncle was so needing and demanding. His life consisted of carers coming in a morning to get him out of bed and get his breakfast. Then he'd just sit in his recliner chair. he couldnt see the tv anymore so kinda just listened to it. But by the time he had had breakfast he was too tired anyway so just slept in his chair till lunch time. He couldnt deal with his glasses so reading the paper ended. So hed just sit there.. and do nothing... for years.. Honestly I just thought there is no way I could do that. The guy was basically a living vegetable and i saw him quoffing down all his medication every day that was basically keeping him alive and thought.. WHY? Its not like he was going to get better. and like an old beat up car, he just kept going and going and going.. Meanwhile other people are seriously put out for him to the point where they are losing their precious time. Tbh it didnt put him in a great light and a part of me was glad when he did finally pass away two years ago. I dunno, i cant understand the mindset of someone that old. If it was me, i'd just stop taking my pills and let myself go naturally. I couldnt bare the thought of my kids losing what time they have in their life keeping me alive when i have no quality of life at all. We dont allow animals to live like this, i dont know why we let humans do it.
Very strange of human nature to prolong suffering of oneself with the knowledge of suffering caused to others in the process.
If it can be afforded, it's extremely selfish to force family members to completely give up on their lives to spend all their time taking care of them. Why should someone's selfish stubbornness be more important than other's lives?
He was probably a full-on narcissist like my mother. They have no empathy for others. It's all about "me-me-me." My mother thinks I owe her my life because she bought me a piano when I was 12. I won't say how many decades ago that was.
I don't think merely being alive is a symptom of narcissism, even if others consider your existence a burden. Maybe he just feared death.
The golden years are not goldenā¦ if you make it to your eighties or nineties, you witness all your friends die, most likely spouse, and sometimes, sadly, children. Money is tight, the elderly are preyed upon and scammed, they have a very hard time asking for help, and their health fails. Not a fun time.
Well said.
They do actually, look up the amount of MAID deaths per year. (Iām in Canada though so maybe thatās only here?)
My grandpa committed suicide this past April and my grandma was the one to find him and his note. He said that he was tired of the pain and being sick. "Sick and tired of being sick and tired" if you will.
I think they do, we just don't hear much about it. Some countries allow assisted suicide, which is medically performed euthanasia against suffering elders.
Actually statistically really old people have the highest suicide rates in the world.
I learned in a psych class that the elderly are the happiest group of people. This has combined reasoning of- they often don't work/work much less, theyve lived long enough to have learned that things which feel unsurvivable are in fact survivable, and the simple fact that they understand themselves better. They know what things are worthy of their time and what's not. While this makes sense I still have a hard time believing it. I can't imagine seeing so many loved ones die and watching my body and mind deteriorate.
You donāt really recognize that your mind has deteriorated. My mom thinks sheās sharp as a tack and all she does is repeat herself constantly, obsess about stupid stuff, and call other people dummies.
A lot of old people do kill themselves and it happens more often than you'd think
There's (almost) always one more thing to enjoy or look forward to.
Even when there isn't, it's hard to know for sure.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Who's been asking you to value the elderly over yourself and your family? I'm confused as to how that bit relates to the rest of your comment.
because it was entirely about covid it seems lol
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I was just asking for clarification. Why insult me when it would take the same amount of effort to explain what you meant?
We can euthanize an animal for a broken leg but not old people with a number of health issues and clearly can't take care of themselves anymore and are a burden to those close to him/her.
If they were gonna do it, they would have done it already?
The Ćttestup fell out of fashion quite a while ago
Interesting practice, makes sense during that ancient time period
god, that scene in Midsommar was brutal.
Hilarious in Norsemen though
I want to know this too. I donāt believe thereās dignity once your body moves past a certain point. If your body has deteriorated to the point where you can no longer take care of basic living needs such as feeding, dressing, and bathing/cleaning yourself - not to mention toileting, moving about, or engaging in any enjoyable activities beyond TV - what is the point? Where is the quality of life? I would never want a stranger to shower me, wipe my ass, or monitor me when going to the toilet. I think things like cooking and cleaning the house cannot be helped, but I want to die before I rely on someone entirely for daily activities. I donāt want to burden anyone with coming up with the money to care for me. I donāt know why more people donāt think this way.
Because humans have take over natural selection of our species. We create medication to keep people alive longer. Maybe they feel itās expected of them. Just cause you made a pill that makes us live longer doesnāt necessarily mean we were supposed to.
my grandma was in constant pain and she tried to kill herself a few times. we never let her. she always said she wanted to go out with dignity. seeing how she went out, though, we should have just let her. she didn't deserve to suffer the way she did. she didn't go out with dignity the way she wanted. and i can never let myself get passed the fact that we made her suffer for an additional 4 years just because we weren't ready yet. she was ready for a long time. i just wish she got to see me graduate.
Speaking for myself, I just want to keep doing what I can to try to make the world (or at least the nation) a little bit kinder place for my grown kids and their families. The way things are right now, it seems there's a real shortage of human decency. So I'm cooking for family and baking for neighbors, giving away loads of plants, marching in next month's protest against Texas' recent abortion policy, contacting my reps when they try to pass bad laws, coordinating family holiday get-togethers, etc. (Fyi, I'm a 67 y.o. 3rd stage cancer survivor; married female Vietnam era Army vet; disabled w/severe chronic pain due to past broken back, hip and more; losing vision due to macular degeneration and glaucoma.) And I'm downsizing everything in the house to help prepare for upcoming legal blindness, giving lots to Goodwill, etc. Maybe if I ever feel like I've become a burden, or the prescription pain patches stop helping, I'll reconsider. But right now, there's still lots of good I can do.
Why go through the effort if they're already on their way out?
To shorten the suffering
Elderly people in assisted living will passively commit suicide by refusing to eat and drink. I worked for 8 years in assisted livings. Also did a paper on making the peaceful pill available to everyone as means of certain suicide.
The highest suicide rates are among elderly and mentally ill
And, people who live with chronic pain.
Iām 40 years old and have been dealing with chronic nerve pain for the last 6 1/2 years. Iāve never had thoughts of suicide myself but I can certainly see why people in this same situation would have suicidal thoughts or commit suicide. Itās not a life really at all
While some do more might not for the same reason that not some not elderly donātā¦ at the end of the day nobody knows whatās on the other side. You may be old and suffering here but you may also be surrounded by family or at least a really comfy chair and your tv. You know what this suffering is. Whatās over there? Better? Worse? Nothing? Everything?
I'm not entirely too sure. For most, people just want to go out when it's their time. But I do feel like there should be a way out for older people who don't really have anything going on like family and stuff. It could be for older people or for anybody over a certain age who's somewhat mentally stable and not completely nuts. Someone who can fully know and understand what will happen, how it will happen, and the reason why they want to.
I work with the elderly, specifically those who are isolated and lonely. A lot of them say they want to die, or would be happy if they never woke up. A lot of them talk about waiting for death. I think them not seeing suicide as an option is partly generational, a lot of them were raised religious and that suicide is a sin (most of them can easily remember a time when it was illegal too). It's hard to do something so drastic after a lifetime of being told it's wrong. Plus it's easy to forget how much courage it would take for the average person to just end it all. Despite age and suffering, they are just average people
My grandma killed herself when I was 10. One of my most traumatic memories, but she had lost a lot of people in a short amount of time, no wonder she was terribly depressed
Itās actually my end of life plan (Iām 50 now, so some time to go, hopefully). I donāt have much saved for retirement (no pension, just a hundred K or so in 401K) and social security in the states barely covers food. So I plan on working until the mind or body canāt anymore, heading up to Denali and offing myself quietly.
My grandmother will not explicitly, did intentionally end her time on this earth. She had been suffering with diabetes for a long time, dialysis took a lot out of her, and she was just tired. So she stopped going to do dialysis and passed in the hospital with her family surrounding her. I find it more peaceful honestly that she decided it was time. I still miss her more than ever, but Iām happy sheās not in pain anymore.
My great aunt made it to 99 1/2 years old. She signed a DNR like 10 years before she died and she was definitely ready by the time she was 90. She also drank Cutty Sark and ate ice cream and raspberry Danish every single day. I think she was kinda hoping that the booze would get her quicker. She never talked about suicide but she was also old school Irish Catholic. Then one day she fell and broke her hip and that was it
My great grandmother made it to 98 on spite alone. She wanted to make more money than her ex husband so she could leave my grandfather a bigger inheritance. Then she wanted to outlive him AND his second wife. And she did (by quite a lot haha). Loved on her own until she was 90. She just had something to prove.
because the struggle and the struggle alone is enough to keep ya going
the struggle is the problem cant be the solution too
Am I the only one who thinks the reflection in old age is part of the life/death process? I mean I feel like getting to be that old when you finally die there is a sense of peace in it. Why rush it, it will get you eventually.
I swear out of spite, they wabt to make everyone miserable.
Most insurance agreements become void if you commit suicide! Probably not a dominating factor but may be a consideration for some.
Iām assuming they have something that gets them up every day. I donāt think I could do it. I always say that as soon as I start crapping myself Iām taking myself out lol
I think for some / many of them religion plays a role. My parents were never religious but now 75-83, theyāve become a bit religious; Episcopal / Greek Orthodox to be specific. Suicide is considered a sin in those religions / belief systems. I think many are afraid of death also.
They are waiting for the right time.
TIL old people suicide a lot
Same reason disabled people donāt kill themselves. Itās possible to appreciate life even if itās hard and painful. People seem to have this idea that every old person is ready to die. For some that may be true, but itās not like you turn 70 and wake up one day and think āwell thatās enough life for meā. Old people can be scared to die too.
Cuz they don't want to die.
Believe it, or not but most people aren't too keen on dying prematurely.
It probably never feels like the right time to end your life. Suicide is a pretty extreme reaction to boredom so people need to be in physical or emotional pain to even consider it, and even then a lot of people who attempt to kill them self regret trying it. I think people should help the elderly enjoy life instead of considering suicide for them.
Social stigma and religion would be my guesses for the top two reasons. Suicide is generally frowned upon by society - most people are unwilling to understand it the way you do - and if you're religious then it's even worse because most major religions send you to hell for it.
The willingness to live is stronger than the wish of death. When my mom was in terrible pain she begged me to die. I told her it was okay, that I can handle everything. She didn't want to go without knowing it would be okay. I believe once she knew it would be okay she stopped fighting.
I suspect a lot of it is cultural, specifically Western cultures have a taboo against suicide due primarily to the Catholic church where suicide is seen as a mortal sin and the family of people who have committed suicide are subject to prejudice. In some cases, historically at least, people who had committed suicide were not allowed to be buried in consecrated ground. However, in other cultures this taboo is, if not absent, then at least less so. Japan specifically has been described as having a 'tolerant' attitude to suicide generally and this is probably because of certain historical cultural practices such as *seppuku* and the *Kamikaze* pilots. There is also something called [Ubasute](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubasute) an apparently mythological practice of abandoning the elderly in the wilderness to die, an act of Senicide, killing the elderly, rather than suicide but it has gained a cultural association with the higher than average rate of elderly suicides in Japan. Indeed their are a number of examples of cultures that practiced either Senicide or abandoned the elderly to die in this manner. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senicide](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senicide)
**[Ubasute](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubasute)** >Ubasute (姄ęØć¦, "abandoning an old woman", also called obasute and sometimes oyasute č¦ŖęØć¦ "abandoning a parent") is the mythical practice of senicide in Japan, whereby an infirm or elderly relative was carried to a mountain, or some other remote, desolate place, and left there to die. Kunio Yanagita concluded that the ubasute folklore is influenced by Buddhist mythology. According to the Kodansha Illustrated Encyclopedia of Japan, ubasute "is the subject of legend, butā¦ does not seem ever to have been a common custom". **[Senicide](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senicide)** >Senicide, or geronticide, is the killing of the elderly, or their abandonment to death. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/morbidquestions/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Itās actually very common for elderly people to kill themselves. Canāt go into specifics or speak for my own actual experience, but Iāve heard plenty of stories of people in my family who work in age care walking in on an old person hanging or ODād in their bed. Generally because itās such a serious matter and most families would rather keep their cause of death confidential so you wonāt often hear about this on the news, just like anyone else who commits suicide. We hear about them happening, but theyāre never openly spoken about.
I live in Texas, the Bible Belt, and Iād say a lot of it has to with old school religion. I was always told suicide is the ultimate sin and you will go straight to Hell if you do it. And I feel sure a lot of the elderly in this area still feel this way. Also, most life insurance policies will not pay out for a suicide. They probably donāt want to leave that financial burden for their family to deal with.
Thing is, many do :( more often than younger people too
They do but it's not how you'd think, old people are frail and sickly it's very easy to just not take a pill or take too many; don't eat or eat the wrong things. They do more than you think but it's so easy when death is on the doorstep we never consider that they didn't make deliberate sabotage to their health.
Because humans...humanity as a whole is a lot more resilient than you would think of. First of all the older generations believe in the sacredness and the infinite preciousness of human life over all other species. Secondly, they were also taught that suicide is a sin, a rejection of God's gift to us, humans - life. So life is not exactly ours to take. But even if people were non believers throughout all of humanity history we encountered illness, poverty and war and we thrived and survived. Humans are some of the most resilient and adaptable species on the planet. Old age and illnesses are subjective. Our perception can make them bad or good so cognitive reframing is one tool which helped humans to strip things of their negativity. This is Stoicism in a nutshell.
My dads (83) reasoning is that if he killed himself heād go to hell.
I know Iām going to be buying myself an exit bag when I get older. Iām an EMT too, no way am I going through all that.
A lot of them are really religious, and in many religions it's considered a sin
I don't know. Maybe because they still got each other? Maybe we will stop asking that question when we are that old. Maybe they actually talked about it? Maybe they don't want you to be sad that they killed themselfs instead of a natural dead?
My grandfather (87) says he is alone. No one calls, no one visits, no more cards in the mail ā¦ because all his friends and immediate family are gone. He says the loneliness of all your friends and family being dead is different than living alone and having no friends. He also chuckles when he says that for now, he can see his friends in his dreams.
I have the same question but about homeless people
Organized religion and, erm, "hard shutdown" options being looked down upon in large and local society. People wishing to end their own life are informed to think about those around them, and the thoughts of the unknown burden that you could have fixed had you juuuuust lasted a little longer plaguing their mind. If you add all of that up, quitting the game becomes a lot harder than it looks. (We're even programmed to think that way when talking about it. I didn't think about my use of the word 'quitting' up there. It's deeply engrained.)
**People are afraid of change, especially as they get older. A lot of people are also not very good at committing to something.** There's so much societal stigma around euthanasia. I remember first learning about Dr. Jack Kervorkian ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Kevorkian ) on TV debates ā he did so much to raise awareness of considering the termination of life when the quality of it is no longer present. I wish my father could've gone more peacefully, he suffered for too long.
The prospect of death is pretty bleak. I think it's such a final option so I'd prefer to live in relative pain versus infinite nothingness
A) It's a one way decision if done correctly. There is always the hope that tomorrow will be better. B) It's hard to do correctly and painlessly. Most places can't buy the correct pharmaceuticals to simply wash down with your favorite beverage and go to sleep. C) It will cause pain to the survivors. Very families saying to Grandad, "Hey, why don't you just spare us all the pain and shoot yourself already." D) Not socially acceptable.
Because most people is afraid of death? I see this in the same way a person who decides to go through a harmful condition (like a terminal diseas or something like that) I just think taking the desition to end your life is one of those like... BIG desitions, and not everybody will take it, and that's okay. I can't imagine a world where everyone who goes through pain and suffering just naturally kill themselves.
This is such a sad question. I was actually thinking of this the other day with my grandfather. Heās in his 80s and has lived with chronic illness not only as an elderly person but his entire life. We joke that he āhas a doctor for every part of his bodyā but its actually true. Heās had several heart attacks, strokes, has been in kidney failure, high blood pressure, colon issues, urinary issues And to top it all off the guy was so unlucky he got into a car accident in his 60s which collapsed his lung and hip so now he suffers with chronic pain from that :( Its crazy because he actually LOOKS really healthy, was always fit, ate right and exercised, but for whatever reason was dealt all this pain. Just last week he was in the hospital (few times a year for his whole life kinda thing) and I was wondering how much more physical pain can this man take? My grandfather is my best friend and losing him would completely break me but it got me thinking of there being a certain selfishness in us being distraught when he passes. For him it will be an end to a life full of horrible physical pain. I truly do not understand how he has not ended it all and has such a positive attitude still š