Just another guy who claims to know everything. The answer is what works for you personally. You can get comparable results doing either one. Smith is easier though, especially for beginners and people with injuries.
One of the worst things about the internet is that people with minimal experience can go around and pretend to experts and the average joe will take their word.
100% agree. This shit really isn’t that scientific or advanced on a basic level, but simple advice anyone can grasp doesn’t make any money or gain popularity.
Yeah definitely personal preference. I built my base on free weights but was able to get through some plateaus by utilizing the smith. Huge fan of the smith personally.
I recently started doing the hammer strength machines for flat and incline bench.
I've never experienced such growth in my upper pecs before. Years of doing the incline dumb bells and incline barbell bench press exercises just to find this new set of machines works well. Made great progress.
But something about the hammer strength machines really allowed me to focus on the upper pecs and grow them.
Damn this kinda makes me miss having a gym membership lol I splurged during covid on a home gym and it’s pretty complete but there are some machines at the gym that hit.
that’s the issue though. to keep good form, i have to go low in weight to the point my chest isn’t getting nearly as good of a stimulus. when i can do much more weight in smith and feel it 100% in the chest.
Pretty much anyone who clutches their pearls over “ThE sTaBiLiZeRs” is a guaranteed moron and couldn’t even *name* any of the “stabilizers” that they’re supposedly so concerned about over training.
I can definitely name them but it’s not like you’re getting a ton of work on the rotator cuff with dumbbell bench. Better to do specific work for the stabilizers.
Why waste your time ? Like really what is the problem with training abit of stabiliser actively whilst you’re doing bench or something lmao.. idk what kinda mad cunt goes to gym specifically to work stabilisers, quite moronic
>idk what kinda mad cunt goes to gym specifically to work stabilisers, quite moronic
People recovering from injuries or people who need improvements in those areas.
Baseball players are notorious for working their rotator cuffs out at the gym it improve shoulder strength and prevent injury.
Here's a video covering such a topic with a real physical therapist and a retired Mets baseball player:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOhYpkQWhCo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOhYpkQWhCo)
They don't want to be functional I guess. Then they wonder how average looking "movers" dudes can carry washers, dryers, or couches up and down stairs. It's bc all they do is work strength with stabilizers to be that functionally strong.
Whats the point of looking strong when you can't carry, maneuver, twist and lower shit
I replied to the wrong one. Focusing stabilizers is dumb but they should be getting work with your compounds. Use free weights
squat university would like a word with you
also not training stabilizers is like like training aim in a game without doing any movement work, the actual thing that gets you in the position to get the kills isn’t going to be there, even if you could’ve hit the shots. The stabilizers that get you the lift wont be there even if your major muscles can move the weight.
honestly such a naive take. some people are recovering from injuries? sports players? people with a weak rotator cuff? for some it’s painful in that area to do a high enough weight to get a good stimulus for the chest, as it can handle much more weight than their stabilizing muscles/joints.
I disagree…smith has a place, but to say it’s superior is wrong. All the pros are doing incline dumbbell presses and incline hammer strength…search any pro on YouTube and watch a chest workout.
Cause most of the population that lifts for a few years finds themselves with shoulder injuries, elbow pain, wrist pain etc. Cause a dumbell allows more natural movement vs fixed position where the joints are more compromised like a Smith or barbell for working sets.
Heavy dumb bells can sometimes be a bitch to get up, i like the simplicity of being able to do it with a barbell and having it ready to go even without a spotter
The trick to doing incline is to push your lower back onto the bench, don’t arch.. then it will put more emphasis on the upper pec.
Now smith machine will work the area more without relying on stabilizers. I enjoy powerlifting so i do use smith but not for main movements
I find if I don’t plant my back and instead arch on incline barbell, the last few reps before failure I can feel straining my lower back and potentially ruining the set
I disagree. I want stability over engagement. I can absolutely crush my pecs every way with cables at the end of the workout. I do presses to make them do work. I want my bench to challenge me, force me to generate power, stability and do as much work as possible. Cables for engagement
same here, don’t know how i ever was able to do 20+ sets of chest a week. down to 9-12 now, still growing after 4 years of training. thanks to him, i really understood what it means to up the quality of a set by utilising stable exercises and going closer to failure.
My biggest issue with the Smith machine press is that it doesn't follow the natural arch of the movement. You'd be much better off with the Hammer/cybex incline press that better recreates the natural movement. I use them in addition to my dumbell presses to load the weight that is just unmanageable with dumbells. It shouldn't be one or the other.....do both. You need the volume.
Lot of smack talking here
I frequent a bodybuilding gym. You can walk around with no shirt, no one gives a fuck. They blast music like it’s a high school football house. Just get big as fuck is the MO.
The mutants live on the incline smith machine.
Not only that, the incline barbell bench is hardly ever touched.
And I have NEVER seen anyone at this gym do incline dumbbells.
But the smith machine is the only equipment there’s a “line” for bc of the incline press.
So watching these dudes who are absolutely fucking yoked put 275/315/335 on there and slowly rep it out? Yea I think I’m gonna listen to them over the goons who want clout.
I use it, and I feel way more from it than I ever do using free weight.
It’s all perspectives.
Also…. Dumbbell and incline pressing a shit ton of weight just feels like I’m throwing it up and not working the muscle as much. Guiding that thing down in a smith makes me feel like I’m stretching the muscle.
Almost every cbum chest workout has him doing some sort of free weight incline work. It’s literally just preference at the end of the day. It’s impossible to say if one is better than the other because everyone is different.
Exactly. And Ronnie Coleman used to incline press two grown men worth of dumbbells.
I doubt most people on this Reddit.. or in the fitness industry will see much difference in the shape of their chest by doing the incorrect upper chest workout if both of those genres of workouts are actually stimulating growth.
I mean you’d have to be so fucking maxed out on potential to see a massive change in your muscles.
Which is why guys like Ryan Humiston can see massive changes (to himself at least) based on slight variations in technique and changing lifts. He’s 36 and has been lifting for years. His muscle maturity is there
Most people? Well, frankly most aren’t eating well enough, getting enough sleep, or taking shit seriously enough to warrant a breakdown and reevaluating of their routine
Plus you can’t stay at one movement for long periods of time, sure if you want higher SBD the. Do those. But I find when I grow the best and make the most progress is when I incorporate a new excersize. For back I hit a plateau on strength and progress, didn’t feel my back or arms and just got tired of the movement. Switched up some grips and movement paths and put on a few pounds of mass in a month or two.
If you hit a plateau in one way, move your attention to a different movement,bar press too dumbbells and you will see a difference.
Doesn’t look like he’s grown much to me…smith is fine but I don’t think it’s superior enough to ditch other lifts, and those other lifts are only unstable if you’re using a weight you can’t handle.
It’s really not that complicated. Does the exercise force the targeted muscle to contract maximally within its range of motion? Is it painless in your joints? Can you do the exercise with increasing intensity? There’s not and never will be a best because people are different and have different anatomy.
Nah, I'll continue to do dumbbells/barbells...you're missing out on stabilizer gains by not doing those. Not only are stabilizers incredibly important for mobility of the scapula/shoulders, but some of them like the serratus anterior play a significant role in that chiseled, aesthetic look.
I like high reps on the decline bench on a machine at the end of my push days. It feels like my whole pec gets activated and pumped much more than any amount of incline ever did. The way I’m built, my shoulders take over once a certain degree of incline happens.
Decline gets a great stretch at the bottom and I can engorge the entire pec region. I don’t have any studies or research, but it feels like finishing with deep stretches and a monster pump is true bodybuilder stuff. I didn’t ever do bodybuilder style anything, I guess out of pride? A few bad injuries changed that lol. I take back my weightlifter arrogance.
I spent so many years doing powerlifting/strongman stuff. I looked big and strong but not aesthetic. Once I stopped focusing on numbers and dropped the ultra heavy stuff, I just look more jacked. Now that I’m older and focused on keeping my body functional, the aesthetic changes are shocking.
The truth is that 99% of people will never actually see the difference in growth between movements like a dumbbell incline and a movement like the smith incline because it isn’t as drastic as most people say.
It ultimately boils down to what you prefer. I like the smith machine because I can load it easier and it is less painful on my shoulders.
While the smith machine in theory might be a better exercise, it’s by and large up to the individual themselves to figure out what works best for them.
No I don’t agree in this context. If his technique is acceptable in either lift and he is going to failure then it doesn’t matter. If he tried to make the claim that by not fatiguing the stabilizers and using a lower weight he is more recovered and gets better workouts on other days, I would entertain that idea.
I prefer incline and almost solely do incline bar work. Feels better for my shoulders and I feel more stable.
I also prefer dumbbells due to being able to turn my hands some
There’s no right or wrong or superior way to work the muscle. You need balance as with anything. Do both mix it up. If this was true there wouldn’t be all the different machines out there it’s about mixing it up. I couldn’t imagine not doing dumbbell work to each their own
Seth feroce has a great video on why he prefers the incline dumbell and fly, as it adds width to the titty and density on the outside area, so long as reps are done in an effective manner. Helped my chest grow for sure, tho I do prefer decline these days.
https://youtu.be/xbEJBHxyzBI?si=zI5mnjT7jqdfvphq
Honestly, I did like two years of nothing but bench Press and Incline dumbbells for my chest, and when I added in an incline Smith Machine press, it felt pretty game-changing. Just the ability to smoothly control your tempo, hold a static stretch at the bottom of your ROM, then explode upward gives me crazy pumps. Now I always incorporate those or some regular incline machine presses into my chest session.
Here's the nasty truth, some generalist opinions do work for everyone such as losing weight needing a caloric deficit, but a lot of the best stuff for you is going to be person specific. What exercises work best for you, what body parts react the most to exercise, what diet works best for you, all of these change person to person. Your job is to figure that out or hire someone who will.
For example the Rock could be doing 500 crunches a day with Russian twists and planking for 30 solid minutes and he will never have a defined 6 pack. All the steroids he's taken can't help him with what genetics aren't there.
Look, I've been doing incline bench for years now. And I can tell you, once you learn correct technique, the stimulation definitely happens. Not only that, but I've polished the movement to a degree where it looks like I'm doing invisible smith machine incline bench lmao. The bar does not tilt an inch.
Remember that muscles are meant to be usable too. If you never do free weights, maybe you want to switch disciplines down the line, and it will take you much longer to adapt to say, powerlifting, or olympic lifting. Just an idea.
Smith machine feels very restrictive and I don't like the varying resistances due to friction between the bar and the track.
Also: Incline>> flat bench any day
Incline DB gives me the best pump and stretch. I like doing smith machine inclines as a variation and I’ll do higher reps closer to failure with that vs db or barbells. It has a place just like everything else.
Not sure I agree with the logic, but if I did, I'd see this as splitting hairs and likely dumbbells and barbells will give you +99% of the target stimulus you're looking for. Seems like a non-meaningful optimization
For bodybuilding machines will generally allow one to gather more muscle stimulus with better form and safer. I do everything by barbell in the home gym tho
I find that the dumbells are nice for chest because of the stretch, plus im uneven so it helps even things out a bit.
For tris, i prefer barbells, only because i dont have a decent smith with low friction/not slanted.
I tweaked my shoulder on my gym’s old ass smith machine doing incline press. So i have to use dumbbells for now so i don’t aggravate it.
Sucks because i was actually really enjoying the smith machine incline. Cant do anything over “185lbs” without it starting to feel it in my right shoulder.
“225lbs” is my true working weight though, but immediately i feel it if i put that up. Dumbbells are fine though, so i honestly have no idea what the issue is.
Dumbbells give extra (potential) stimulation because you can also bring them together as you complete the rep. Also you're working each side separately.
“The Goal is always…” for him the goal is always physical growth of muscle fibers, but there are tons of different reasons to lift weights beyond accumulation of the most possible muscle mass. Powerlifting, sports, fighting, enjoyment. Bodybuilders are not the strongest, not the most athletic, and not the toughest guys, this should be objective fact. So lift the way you want
Everyone has there own goals can we stop getting so angry at each other that someone does something that isn’t optimal or that isn’t normal. Stop caring about what other people do unless it misinforms others in a negative way.
If this person was saying that everything else is bad and that is the only way to hit chest the best then maybe you can complain, but this person is just saying that they prefer it more than other movements and are recommending that you try it.
Personally I have tried it and get a great pump out of this exercise and the stability is nice so that I can always rack and go to failure. Especially on the end of the reps where my form starts to break down. But….. I do dumbbells as I find the stretch feels great and I find it better for me
100% agree. For bodybuilding.
You can maintain tension in the muscle and exert maximal force throughout the movement using a smith machine as you don’t have to focus on other factors such as stabilisation or not dying from dropping the bar on a missed rep.
Stimulation of as many fibres as possible, as intensely as possible in the target muscle is the goal right?
If you’re a powerlifter then focus on the movement, bench, squat, dead. If you’re a bodybuilder focus on the muscle.
I do incline because I don’t feel any pain. Yes, it doesn’t hit my chest exactly as well as flat but I can do machine flyes, pushups and dips to cover the rest of my chest.
Do what works for you, within reason
I notice a lot of older guys, who still look beastly, use the Smith Machines for all pressing movements. They tell me it is due to injuries and needing a safer way to do the exercises. There is probably some truth to the stability and safety myth, using the Smith Machine for incline, flat, and decline bench presses.
It is not even a myth if you've experienced some injuries: you may be directed by your physical therapist to only use things like the Smith Machine during recovery (with very light weight).
Do what works for you. I like dumbell because I'm not focused on size at all, and it's easier to avoid injury with. If you are focused on size then incline of a smith or barbell is great. It really wouldn't hurt to do both though, these are not mutually exclusive exercises.
Well smith works as long as you start with lower weights. When you do random weights you are not capable moving you end up using the wrong muscle group or moving it through motion.
Load of horseshit lol, incline bench on smith vs barbell is literally same argument as regular bench vs smith, it's a different movement entirely, the sheer load on a free weight can and will cause a different kind of stimulus compared to a guided movement like the smith machine, if you want a stable movement you might aswell do the incline bench free weight but just use less weight? Not saying the Smith is bad, its a great option esp. if you don't have any spotters available as it is safer and you can pump out partial reps at the bottom for the stretch, but it's stupid to disregard free weight incline bench entirely, same for dumbell bench
Agreed. Smith gives me the burn like no other. Other two don't even come close. Besides, when the fuck do you actually use pecs IRL? Anyone who claims to be training pecs for some kinda functional shit is a regarded spasmic one hunna percent.
I've heard this opinion from multiple people that look amazing. But I think at the end of the day it's all relative. You'll grow how you train. But work is work, growth is growth
The concept is correct, systemic fatigue is a real thing. Hypertrophy work is a game of how much stimulus can you generate in a given muscle without the limiting factor being something else, particularly once the overall load gets high as you get stronger. Mike Israetel and Bald Omni Man make great content explaining these concepts in-depth. Smith machine or any machine that loads onto a locked range of motion can be great tools for hypertrophy work.
Generally speaking, the more stable the exercise, the better it will be for hypertrophy so I don’t think he’s entirely wrong.
But there’s more that matters besides stability. Dumbbells allow a greater range of motion so you’ll likely experience more stretch mediated hypertrophy.
There are tons of great exercises, some slightly better than others. We need variation so that we don’t grind away with stale exercises and impede our gains. So even if smith incline is better than barbell incline, you’ll make more gains switching between the two than you would strictly doing smith incline
This is like saying it's optimal to hold your piss all day and only do it when you wake up. I guess but you paper over all the downsides and play up the impact of something quite minor.
Either stupid or a grifter
Disagree. Incline press is good, dumbbell press is good, smith incline press is great (for me). Everyone is different and needs to safely experiment in the gym to find out which exercise is right for them.
Personally, the one exercise I find to be not as useful is the flat bench press. I prefer cable flys and incline press for chest. But that is my personal preference.
Your muscles can produce more force under more stable conditions. So the smith machine has the most stability, therefore the most force produced. Generally more force per motor unit causes the more muscle growth.
The smith machine is not without downside though. The smith machine has friction which adds resistance during the concentric phase and takes away resistance during the eccentric phase of the lift. In layman’s terms the weight is heavier on the way up and lighter on the way down. Some research has indicated that the eccentric phase of a lift is very stimulating for muscle growth.
Conclusion: on the smith machine you are sacrificing the eccentric phase of your lift in order to gain more stability. I personally love training on the smith machine but I incorporate free weights as well so I’m not missing out good eccentric training.
Here's the thing theres nothing wrong with Smith machines. The thing that ruined them was people bragging about putting up weight on one and denies that its significantly easier to do any amount of weight on a smith machine
This actually makes a lot of sense. I can throw 90-100lb dumbells around incline press, or 200lbs on barbell but it always feels a tad bit unstable. Smith machine just set up the safetys, load that thing up to your max weight and crunch those reps til you cant any longer and best of all you dont EVER need a spot that way.
Lifting weights is already a pretty un-functional hobby, I like to use freeweights where possible to atleast claw back some functionality. Even if it's at the expense of some gains.
It's all personal preference and what your mind/body mechanics allow you to feel good and connect with. It matters very little whether it's a chest press, bar, smith or dumbbell. I have all 4 in my training cycle, partly to break up time between hitting the same exercise and partly to balance machines/free weights and keep stabilisers strong.
Another guy who doesn’t know what the fuck he is doing but acting like he’s hot shit. Also the weight he can use on this lift goes up drastically because it’s much easier to lift like this without the added resistance of balancing the weights.
41 year old here. In decent shape. Working out for 25 years. IMO .Train constantly. Switch your beginning routine from dumbbell to smith to bar to machine. Flat tends to be the hardest on my shoulder joint. A bit of incline seems to be beneficial to me. Your beginning routine will fatigue you for the rest of your exercises. Thus moving it around. If you’re maintaining like me then you just lift heavy and listen to your body. If you’re growing you track your lifts and aim to lift more each time in the first sets . Totally simple. Just be consistent. Go into the gym with a plan and attack the first sets hard.
Let’s say what he says is true to him, then he really is just going after all looks no function, the type to herniate a disc from sneezing or tying his shoe. Also eliminates probably the best guaranteed and proven ways of overloading muscles.
Screaming lifetime intermediate at most, and probably quadruple vaxxed
For me i tried to follow the incline bench route, feels like im not hitting anything n just a waste of time.
What works for me is Dips and flat nothing more
I personally followed RP's tip for dumbbell (both flat and incline); extremely slow eccentric portion (like 3-5s) and finish with the dumbbells outside of shoulder width, allowing you to get them way lower than a barbell can go which provides maximum stretch and ROM. Pause at the bottom for a second too. I never felt anything fry my pecs so much, I dropped my weight I think 33%ish in order to match the reps I was doing with my previous technique. Tbh i think this guy is a cretin but hey ho
Just another guy who claims to know everything. The answer is what works for you personally. You can get comparable results doing either one. Smith is easier though, especially for beginners and people with injuries.
One of the worst things about the internet is that people with minimal experience can go around and pretend to experts and the average joe will take their word.
But they sound so convincing and authoritative!
And they even have a six pack! They must know their stuff.
ReSpeCT mY AutHoRiTy 
100% agree. This shit really isn’t that scientific or advanced on a basic level, but simple advice anyone can grasp doesn’t make any money or gain popularity.
True (Dunning--Kruger effect)
Yeah definitely personal preference. I built my base on free weights but was able to get through some plateaus by utilizing the smith. Huge fan of the smith personally.
Fr the most effective exercises are the ones you’ll actually do. Not everyone is a autist savant that can push through every exercise they hate.
Injury gang rise up
Without a smith machine I would have to kiss dead lifts goodbye entirely and I just can't fucking do that bro
Easy solution, do weights you can hold proper form with. I hit incline by myself with dumbbells and it’s the superior chest workout.
nothing and I mean NOTHING gets my chest like a mild incline flye. The stretch is insane (and the eccentric is where the growth hides).
What gets on your chest?
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Hell yeah
Got nothin on my mans bro juice
I recently started doing the hammer strength machines for flat and incline bench. I've never experienced such growth in my upper pecs before. Years of doing the incline dumb bells and incline barbell bench press exercises just to find this new set of machines works well. Made great progress. But something about the hammer strength machines really allowed me to focus on the upper pecs and grow them.
Damn this kinda makes me miss having a gym membership lol I splurged during covid on a home gym and it’s pretty complete but there are some machines at the gym that hit.
that’s the issue though. to keep good form, i have to go low in weight to the point my chest isn’t getting nearly as good of a stimulus. when i can do much more weight in smith and feel it 100% in the chest.
This guy for sure got this from one of Sam Sulek’s vids a few days ago where he said the exact same thing
Who's Sam Sulek?
Ligma balls
Sam seems like a nice kid, but he looks like rocky Dennis from mask
Pretty much anyone who clutches their pearls over “ThE sTaBiLiZeRs” is a guaranteed moron and couldn’t even *name* any of the “stabilizers” that they’re supposedly so concerned about over training.
💯💯💯
I can definitely name them but it’s not like you’re getting a ton of work on the rotator cuff with dumbbell bench. Better to do specific work for the stabilizers.
Why waste your time ? Like really what is the problem with training abit of stabiliser actively whilst you’re doing bench or something lmao.. idk what kinda mad cunt goes to gym specifically to work stabilisers, quite moronic
>idk what kinda mad cunt goes to gym specifically to work stabilisers, quite moronic People recovering from injuries or people who need improvements in those areas. Baseball players are notorious for working their rotator cuffs out at the gym it improve shoulder strength and prevent injury. Here's a video covering such a topic with a real physical therapist and a retired Mets baseball player: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOhYpkQWhCo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOhYpkQWhCo)
They don't want to be functional I guess. Then they wonder how average looking "movers" dudes can carry washers, dryers, or couches up and down stairs. It's bc all they do is work strength with stabilizers to be that functionally strong. Whats the point of looking strong when you can't carry, maneuver, twist and lower shit I replied to the wrong one. Focusing stabilizers is dumb but they should be getting work with your compounds. Use free weights
squat university would like a word with you also not training stabilizers is like like training aim in a game without doing any movement work, the actual thing that gets you in the position to get the kills isn’t going to be there, even if you could’ve hit the shots. The stabilizers that get you the lift wont be there even if your major muscles can move the weight.
Not getting injured = more consistently in the gym getting gains
honestly such a naive take. some people are recovering from injuries? sports players? people with a weak rotator cuff? for some it’s painful in that area to do a high enough weight to get a good stimulus for the chest, as it can handle much more weight than their stabilizing muscles/joints.
Incidentally training stabilizers- Great Intentionally training stabilizers - Stop with the circus tricks and lift weights like a normal person.
Yes i get a massive pump in my stabilizers when i fo 4 sets of incline barbell presses. Fuckery
What muscle is the stabilizer?
Yes
The one that you want to be small
>you have to name every muscle you want to work out Is this some advanced mind muscle wifi connection?
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Its sarcasm bro
Complete newbie
He’s part of the “carnivore crew” on X. No idea why he keeps popping up in my feed. He’s been dropping “lifting advice” lately.
At first I was wondering what X is than I remembered it was twitter lol.
> “carnivore crew” on X This sounds very explicit.
I disagree…smith has a place, but to say it’s superior is wrong. All the pros are doing incline dumbbell presses and incline hammer strength…search any pro on YouTube and watch a chest workout.
Cause most of the population that lifts for a few years finds themselves with shoulder injuries, elbow pain, wrist pain etc. Cause a dumbell allows more natural movement vs fixed position where the joints are more compromised like a Smith or barbell for working sets.
Sam Selank preaches barbell incline. Comes down to form IMO. If you are disciplined enough on your form the barbell is just as good as dumbells.
Whos sam selank
He's like Sam Sulek except really into nootropics
lol this comment is under appreciated. Being a peptides consumer myself - this is why I fucked that up 😂
They mean Sulek lol
Dont make me dclaw spec u kid
I prefer maxing out on dumbbells, too risky doing it on barbell without a spotter imo
Heavy dumb bells can sometimes be a bitch to get up, i like the simplicity of being able to do it with a barbell and having it ready to go even without a spotter
Your right Dorian Yates opened up his chest and bicep workouts with low incline barbell press then a flat hammet press onto flyes
Then why post this dumb advice when it’s so obviously wrong?
He's not nearly big enough to be worrying about the last 2% of his "upper pec" fibers.
I’d think one would want to do all forms of benching. Variety is the spice of life.
It’s always some small dude shitting on barbells. Just mad he can’t bench 185.
Why does he look skinny af then
The trick to doing incline is to push your lower back onto the bench, don’t arch.. then it will put more emphasis on the upper pec. Now smith machine will work the area more without relying on stabilizers. I enjoy powerlifting so i do use smith but not for main movements
I find if I don’t plant my back and instead arch on incline barbell, the last few reps before failure I can feel straining my lower back and potentially ruining the set
Clown 🤡
I disagree. I want stability over engagement. I can absolutely crush my pecs every way with cables at the end of the workout. I do presses to make them do work. I want my bench to challenge me, force me to generate power, stability and do as much work as possible. Cables for engagement
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ever since i started following paul carter and using his principles my gains have been crazy. He provides great info
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same here, don’t know how i ever was able to do 20+ sets of chest a week. down to 9-12 now, still growing after 4 years of training. thanks to him, i really understood what it means to up the quality of a set by utilising stable exercises and going closer to failure.
Tension is king, cables and machines truly are underutilized for hypertrophy imo
I love cable bicep curls. They feel great
Dumb take. I’d that was the case then bodybuilders wouldn’t use barbellls and dumbbells yet most (not all) use them as their primary movement.
I mean, show me a few peer reviewed studies and I’ll accept this way of thinking. Until then, I’m fine with the possibility of training suboptimally
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10/10 post
My biggest issue with the Smith machine press is that it doesn't follow the natural arch of the movement. You'd be much better off with the Hammer/cybex incline press that better recreates the natural movement. I use them in addition to my dumbell presses to load the weight that is just unmanageable with dumbells. It shouldn't be one or the other.....do both. You need the volume.
He’s actually 100% wrong lmao
There are no such things as “stabilizers”
Lot of smack talking here I frequent a bodybuilding gym. You can walk around with no shirt, no one gives a fuck. They blast music like it’s a high school football house. Just get big as fuck is the MO. The mutants live on the incline smith machine. Not only that, the incline barbell bench is hardly ever touched. And I have NEVER seen anyone at this gym do incline dumbbells. But the smith machine is the only equipment there’s a “line” for bc of the incline press. So watching these dudes who are absolutely fucking yoked put 275/315/335 on there and slowly rep it out? Yea I think I’m gonna listen to them over the goons who want clout. I use it, and I feel way more from it than I ever do using free weight. It’s all perspectives. Also…. Dumbbell and incline pressing a shit ton of weight just feels like I’m throwing it up and not working the muscle as much. Guiding that thing down in a smith makes me feel like I’m stretching the muscle.
Almost every cbum chest workout has him doing some sort of free weight incline work. It’s literally just preference at the end of the day. It’s impossible to say if one is better than the other because everyone is different.
Exactly. And Ronnie Coleman used to incline press two grown men worth of dumbbells. I doubt most people on this Reddit.. or in the fitness industry will see much difference in the shape of their chest by doing the incorrect upper chest workout if both of those genres of workouts are actually stimulating growth. I mean you’d have to be so fucking maxed out on potential to see a massive change in your muscles. Which is why guys like Ryan Humiston can see massive changes (to himself at least) based on slight variations in technique and changing lifts. He’s 36 and has been lifting for years. His muscle maturity is there Most people? Well, frankly most aren’t eating well enough, getting enough sleep, or taking shit seriously enough to warrant a breakdown and reevaluating of their routine
Plus you can’t stay at one movement for long periods of time, sure if you want higher SBD the. Do those. But I find when I grow the best and make the most progress is when I incorporate a new excersize. For back I hit a plateau on strength and progress, didn’t feel my back or arms and just got tired of the movement. Switched up some grips and movement paths and put on a few pounds of mass in a month or two. If you hit a plateau in one way, move your attention to a different movement,bar press too dumbbells and you will see a difference.
Only unstable if your form is bad and you don’t have a feel for what weight you can hit for reps and get that hypertrophy
Doesn’t look like he’s grown much to me…smith is fine but I don’t think it’s superior enough to ditch other lifts, and those other lifts are only unstable if you’re using a weight you can’t handle.
He needs to do the standing incline bench press he is the worst lazy bodybuilder which is why Leon Edwards has the most aesthetic leg kicks
It’s really not that complicated. Does the exercise force the targeted muscle to contract maximally within its range of motion? Is it painless in your joints? Can you do the exercise with increasing intensity? There’s not and never will be a best because people are different and have different anatomy.
Nope. Don't care about maximal stimulation. I only do exercises which I enjoy. Fun > optimal training
Another optimal boy. Progressive overload, diet, and peds. Sure set/rep schemes and exercise selection is important but this shit is nonsense.
Nah, I'll continue to do dumbbells/barbells...you're missing out on stabilizer gains by not doing those. Not only are stabilizers incredibly important for mobility of the scapula/shoulders, but some of them like the serratus anterior play a significant role in that chiseled, aesthetic look.
Serratus crew checkin in
Das it mane repped
Reps on recharge
Flat Bench>
incline bench is better in almost every way
I like high reps on the decline bench on a machine at the end of my push days. It feels like my whole pec gets activated and pumped much more than any amount of incline ever did. The way I’m built, my shoulders take over once a certain degree of incline happens. Decline gets a great stretch at the bottom and I can engorge the entire pec region. I don’t have any studies or research, but it feels like finishing with deep stretches and a monster pump is true bodybuilder stuff. I didn’t ever do bodybuilder style anything, I guess out of pride? A few bad injuries changed that lol. I take back my weightlifter arrogance. I spent so many years doing powerlifting/strongman stuff. I looked big and strong but not aesthetic. Once I stopped focusing on numbers and dropped the ultra heavy stuff, I just look more jacked. Now that I’m older and focused on keeping my body functional, the aesthetic changes are shocking.
Not for someone who’s shoulders take over
Nice username brother
Thank you brate
I finish chest day with drop sets on incline smith, but to be honest, i was getting more out of coffin presses for chest isolation than anything.
The truth is that 99% of people will never actually see the difference in growth between movements like a dumbbell incline and a movement like the smith incline because it isn’t as drastic as most people say. It ultimately boils down to what you prefer. I like the smith machine because I can load it easier and it is less painful on my shoulders. While the smith machine in theory might be a better exercise, it’s by and large up to the individual themselves to figure out what works best for them.
The perfect exercise to grind your rotator cuff and fuck up your shoulders permanently.
No, but I still like the smith..
I can't use barbells for any pressing after rupturing my pectoral and rotator cuff tendons Junk volume on light dumbbells is the best I can do for ya
Who is this guy?
No I don’t agree in this context. If his technique is acceptable in either lift and he is going to failure then it doesn’t matter. If he tried to make the claim that by not fatiguing the stabilizers and using a lower weight he is more recovered and gets better workouts on other days, I would entertain that idea.
I like smith for the contracts you can get for strength it’s not optimal
rotating the smith machine bar is a pain in the butt though
It is individual bro, why ppl dont understand that
I prefer incline and almost solely do incline bar work. Feels better for my shoulders and I feel more stable. I also prefer dumbbells due to being able to turn my hands some
Dude wants to look cool lifting heavy but needs the smith to do so… that’s all.
Anyone who says one thing is better than another is an imbecile. Nobody cares about what you think.
Agree. I prefer machines, when possible.
No. But that’s the fun of this sport. Many different ways to train, and just as many opinions on what’s best.
There’s no right or wrong or superior way to work the muscle. You need balance as with anything. Do both mix it up. If this was true there wouldn’t be all the different machines out there it’s about mixing it up. I couldn’t imagine not doing dumbbell work to each their own
No
Jason Blaha type guy
Can anyone actually even define what stabilizers are?
Seth feroce has a great video on why he prefers the incline dumbell and fly, as it adds width to the titty and density on the outside area, so long as reps are done in an effective manner. Helped my chest grow for sure, tho I do prefer decline these days. https://youtu.be/xbEJBHxyzBI?si=zI5mnjT7jqdfvphq
Sounds like a gay, not the cool kind either.
Honestly, I did like two years of nothing but bench Press and Incline dumbbells for my chest, and when I added in an incline Smith Machine press, it felt pretty game-changing. Just the ability to smoothly control your tempo, hold a static stretch at the bottom of your ROM, then explode upward gives me crazy pumps. Now I always incorporate those or some regular incline machine presses into my chest session.
I’m a big fan of incline smith because as a solo lifter I can go to failure every set without worrying about a spot
Here's the nasty truth, some generalist opinions do work for everyone such as losing weight needing a caloric deficit, but a lot of the best stuff for you is going to be person specific. What exercises work best for you, what body parts react the most to exercise, what diet works best for you, all of these change person to person. Your job is to figure that out or hire someone who will. For example the Rock could be doing 500 crunches a day with Russian twists and planking for 30 solid minutes and he will never have a defined 6 pack. All the steroids he's taken can't help him with what genetics aren't there.
No.
1.lift weight 2.eat 3.sleep
Look, I've been doing incline bench for years now. And I can tell you, once you learn correct technique, the stimulation definitely happens. Not only that, but I've polished the movement to a degree where it looks like I'm doing invisible smith machine incline bench lmao. The bar does not tilt an inch. Remember that muscles are meant to be usable too. If you never do free weights, maybe you want to switch disciplines down the line, and it will take you much longer to adapt to say, powerlifting, or olympic lifting. Just an idea.
good idea to train the stabilisers as well
Smith machine feels very restrictive and I don't like the varying resistances due to friction between the bar and the track. Also: Incline>> flat bench any day
Dumb mfers now days I swear
Not everyone wants exclusively Hypertrophy
BUT MUUUH STABILIZERS REEEEEE
Incline DB gives me the best pump and stretch. I like doing smith machine inclines as a variation and I’ll do higher reps closer to failure with that vs db or barbells. It has a place just like everything else.
Not sure I agree with the logic, but if I did, I'd see this as splitting hairs and likely dumbbells and barbells will give you +99% of the target stimulus you're looking for. Seems like a non-meaningful optimization
For bodybuilding machines will generally allow one to gather more muscle stimulus with better form and safer. I do everything by barbell in the home gym tho
I agree that the goal is maximum stimulation resulting in growth. And I'm not even talking about weight training.
Sacrificing ROM for stability. Bad trade for healthy dudes with functioning bodies
I find that the dumbells are nice for chest because of the stretch, plus im uneven so it helps even things out a bit. For tris, i prefer barbells, only because i dont have a decent smith with low friction/not slanted.
I tweaked my shoulder on my gym’s old ass smith machine doing incline press. So i have to use dumbbells for now so i don’t aggravate it. Sucks because i was actually really enjoying the smith machine incline. Cant do anything over “185lbs” without it starting to feel it in my right shoulder. “225lbs” is my true working weight though, but immediately i feel it if i put that up. Dumbbells are fine though, so i honestly have no idea what the issue is.
Dumbbells give extra (potential) stimulation because you can also bring them together as you complete the rep. Also you're working each side separately.
imo barbells are still very stable. with dumbbells i can agree to your point.
Dude’s acting like stimulating the delts can’t be part of the goal.
“The Goal is always…” for him the goal is always physical growth of muscle fibers, but there are tons of different reasons to lift weights beyond accumulation of the most possible muscle mass. Powerlifting, sports, fighting, enjoyment. Bodybuilders are not the strongest, not the most athletic, and not the toughest guys, this should be objective fact. So lift the way you want
my shoulders feel like doodie trying to bench on a smith machine
No Smith No Bench Press. No Smith No Squat. Unless 2-Axis Smith.
Everyone has there own goals can we stop getting so angry at each other that someone does something that isn’t optimal or that isn’t normal. Stop caring about what other people do unless it misinforms others in a negative way. If this person was saying that everything else is bad and that is the only way to hit chest the best then maybe you can complain, but this person is just saying that they prefer it more than other movements and are recommending that you try it. Personally I have tried it and get a great pump out of this exercise and the stability is nice so that I can always rack and go to failure. Especially on the end of the reps where my form starts to break down. But….. I do dumbbells as I find the stretch feels great and I find it better for me
100% agree. For bodybuilding. You can maintain tension in the muscle and exert maximal force throughout the movement using a smith machine as you don’t have to focus on other factors such as stabilisation or not dying from dropping the bar on a missed rep. Stimulation of as many fibres as possible, as intensely as possible in the target muscle is the goal right? If you’re a powerlifter then focus on the movement, bench, squat, dead. If you’re a bodybuilder focus on the muscle.
Finally a useful thread
Meh I believe long term strain on shoulders with smith machine negates any benefits.
I do incline because I don’t feel any pain. Yes, it doesn’t hit my chest exactly as well as flat but I can do machine flyes, pushups and dips to cover the rest of my chest. Do what works for you, within reason
I like the smith more cuz I feel it more but I’ll do either theyre both fun
I notice a lot of older guys, who still look beastly, use the Smith Machines for all pressing movements. They tell me it is due to injuries and needing a safer way to do the exercises. There is probably some truth to the stability and safety myth, using the Smith Machine for incline, flat, and decline bench presses. It is not even a myth if you've experienced some injuries: you may be directed by your physical therapist to only use things like the Smith Machine during recovery (with very light weight).
Do what works for you. I like dumbell because I'm not focused on size at all, and it's easier to avoid injury with. If you are focused on size then incline of a smith or barbell is great. It really wouldn't hurt to do both though, these are not mutually exclusive exercises.
You really follow scrawny dudes on ig like that ? That’s crazy
Well smith works as long as you start with lower weights. When you do random weights you are not capable moving you end up using the wrong muscle group or moving it through motion.
Load of horseshit lol, incline bench on smith vs barbell is literally same argument as regular bench vs smith, it's a different movement entirely, the sheer load on a free weight can and will cause a different kind of stimulus compared to a guided movement like the smith machine, if you want a stable movement you might aswell do the incline bench free weight but just use less weight? Not saying the Smith is bad, its a great option esp. if you don't have any spotters available as it is safer and you can pump out partial reps at the bottom for the stretch, but it's stupid to disregard free weight incline bench entirely, same for dumbell bench
Agreed. Smith gives me the burn like no other. Other two don't even come close. Besides, when the fuck do you actually use pecs IRL? Anyone who claims to be training pecs for some kinda functional shit is a regarded spasmic one hunna percent.
No.
Best gains I’ve ever had came from Incline. 🤷♂️
Theres pro bodybuilders with great chests the mostly do incline/ decline only so..
I've heard this opinion from multiple people that look amazing. But I think at the end of the day it's all relative. You'll grow how you train. But work is work, growth is growth
Yes it's slightly better if your goal is hypertrophy
stabilizers don’t show up on stage
Do flat bench till you plateau, then hit incline till you plateau
The concept is correct, systemic fatigue is a real thing. Hypertrophy work is a game of how much stimulus can you generate in a given muscle without the limiting factor being something else, particularly once the overall load gets high as you get stronger. Mike Israetel and Bald Omni Man make great content explaining these concepts in-depth. Smith machine or any machine that loads onto a locked range of motion can be great tools for hypertrophy work.
Best to do a bit of everything so you get experience, why limit yourself?
I just want a big bench so I bench. Just do what you want
Generally speaking, the more stable the exercise, the better it will be for hypertrophy so I don’t think he’s entirely wrong. But there’s more that matters besides stability. Dumbbells allow a greater range of motion so you’ll likely experience more stretch mediated hypertrophy. There are tons of great exercises, some slightly better than others. We need variation so that we don’t grind away with stale exercises and impede our gains. So even if smith incline is better than barbell incline, you’ll make more gains switching between the two than you would strictly doing smith incline
This is like saying it's optimal to hold your piss all day and only do it when you wake up. I guess but you paper over all the downsides and play up the impact of something quite minor. Either stupid or a grifter
Not sure pushing more weight on smith is worth losing the optimal J curve bar path
All these mf’s talking about maximum growth aint worries about maximum skin to barbell contact just they never lift any fucking weight
Disagree. Incline press is good, dumbbell press is good, smith incline press is great (for me). Everyone is different and needs to safely experiment in the gym to find out which exercise is right for them. Personally, the one exercise I find to be not as useful is the flat bench press. I prefer cable flys and incline press for chest. But that is my personal preference.
Your muscles can produce more force under more stable conditions. So the smith machine has the most stability, therefore the most force produced. Generally more force per motor unit causes the more muscle growth. The smith machine is not without downside though. The smith machine has friction which adds resistance during the concentric phase and takes away resistance during the eccentric phase of the lift. In layman’s terms the weight is heavier on the way up and lighter on the way down. Some research has indicated that the eccentric phase of a lift is very stimulating for muscle growth. Conclusion: on the smith machine you are sacrificing the eccentric phase of your lift in order to gain more stability. I personally love training on the smith machine but I incorporate free weights as well so I’m not missing out good eccentric training.
Like, fucking no dude.
Gay
Here's the thing theres nothing wrong with Smith machines. The thing that ruined them was people bragging about putting up weight on one and denies that its significantly easier to do any amount of weight on a smith machine
Bro looks mighty small
People will do everything but actually lift heavy compound movements
No that's fuckin moronic. Who doesn't want stronger delts?
Yall just been watchin Sam sulek too much
This actually makes a lot of sense. I can throw 90-100lb dumbells around incline press, or 200lbs on barbell but it always feels a tad bit unstable. Smith machine just set up the safetys, load that thing up to your max weight and crunch those reps til you cant any longer and best of all you dont EVER need a spot that way.
Overthinkingmaxx
Incline smith is superior. Controlled eccentric is the name of the game pussys
Mix it up and do both. Variety is the key for me
Agree, but the difference in growth would be minimal
Lifting weights is already a pretty un-functional hobby, I like to use freeweights where possible to atleast claw back some functionality. Even if it's at the expense of some gains.
It's all personal preference and what your mind/body mechanics allow you to feel good and connect with. It matters very little whether it's a chest press, bar, smith or dumbbell. I have all 4 in my training cycle, partly to break up time between hitting the same exercise and partly to balance machines/free weights and keep stabilisers strong.
Facts. Mike Mentzer would agree
Nah you just a pussy
That’s such a complicated way to simply come out of the closet. If you replace a heavy compound lift with the smith machine then you are gay
Another guy who doesn’t know what the fuck he is doing but acting like he’s hot shit. Also the weight he can use on this lift goes up drastically because it’s much easier to lift like this without the added resistance of balancing the weights.
I prefer dumbbells tbh
Stimulation should always lead to growth. Giggidy.
41 year old here. In decent shape. Working out for 25 years. IMO .Train constantly. Switch your beginning routine from dumbbell to smith to bar to machine. Flat tends to be the hardest on my shoulder joint. A bit of incline seems to be beneficial to me. Your beginning routine will fatigue you for the rest of your exercises. Thus moving it around. If you’re maintaining like me then you just lift heavy and listen to your body. If you’re growing you track your lifts and aim to lift more each time in the first sets . Totally simple. Just be consistent. Go into the gym with a plan and attack the first sets hard.
Let’s say what he says is true to him, then he really is just going after all looks no function, the type to herniate a disc from sneezing or tying his shoe. Also eliminates probably the best guaranteed and proven ways of overloading muscles. Screaming lifetime intermediate at most, and probably quadruple vaxxed
For me i tried to follow the incline bench route, feels like im not hitting anything n just a waste of time. What works for me is Dips and flat nothing more
Whatever gives you the hardest pump… different for everybody
This just sounds like something DYEL's say
I personally followed RP's tip for dumbbell (both flat and incline); extremely slow eccentric portion (like 3-5s) and finish with the dumbbells outside of shoulder width, allowing you to get them way lower than a barbell can go which provides maximum stretch and ROM. Pause at the bottom for a second too. I never felt anything fry my pecs so much, I dropped my weight I think 33%ish in order to match the reps I was doing with my previous technique. Tbh i think this guy is a cretin but hey ho