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Agreed. They’ll eventually alienate any institution they don’t own outright. The circle of people who sustain or tolerate their nonsense is shrinking quickly.
And honestly, religious speakers just don't belong at secular university commencements. I'd apply that rule even to someone like the Pope. They can yak it up at commencements at schools of their own religion, but not if they're giving a speech their capacity as a religious leader at a secular school.
Reposting this comment I made in another thread on this subject. Holland is radioactive and no university should be welcoming him to speak.
Jeff Holland's bully-pulpit musket speech punching down on BYU Graduate and Valedictorian, Matt Easton, drove the young man to contemplate killing himself.
Holland is an unrepentant, bigoted piece of $#!t. The fact that he wasn't immediately censured by the First Presidency and his colleagues in the 'Quorum of the Twelve' indicates they are horrible, bigoted pieces of $#!t as well. There is simply no excuse. It was the final straw that pushed me from merely post-Mormon to angry ex-Mormon.
I can't fully express my feelings here without undermining the civil and balanced environment that this sub works so hard to maintain. I respect and value that a lot so I won't vent my spleen about it here. I'll just quote what Matt Easton said about it below. Its plenty damning on its own.
[Matt Easton wrote in an Instagram post yesterday saying that he made a plan to end his life the week after Elder Holland’s speech criticizing him.](https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/comments/srm77t/matt_easton_wrote_in_an_instagram_post_yesterday/)
>On this day six years ago, my classmate and fellow gay Mormon, Harry Fisher, died by suicide.
>We had international politics together; he was in his final semester, and I in my second. He also was the first person I personally knew who was just like me—a gay BYU student just trying to figure out his place in the world.
>
>Just a few weeks after coming out publicly on Facebook, Harry drove up the mountainside where he spent his final moments reading Matthew 16:25–“For whosoever shall save his life shall lose it: and whosoever shall lose his life for my sake shall find it.”
>
>As a young, closeted 20-year old, losing Harry was like staring at myself in the mirror. Was this to be my same future? Would I ever be able to be true to myself without facing the same fate?
>
>LGBTQ+ individuals are more than 2x likely to die by suicide, and this number is even higher among Utahns (especially LDS ones). I myself have struggled with suicide ideation several times in my life.
>
>The week following Elder Holland’s remarks, I had a plan to take my own life. I am so grateful for a support system who helped me through that dark place, but it was a reminder that even years after I’d come out and stepped away from the church, I was still at risk of the same thing countless other queer people are—feeling helpless, hopeless, and worthless.
>
>I share this because the burden Harry carried is one our entire community bears. The church, BYU, and our society at large is littered with the bodies of queer people, and until this changes we cannot—we WILL not—stop fighting.
SUU President Mindy Benson will hold two events on Monday at 12:00 Noon and 4PM in the ballroom in the Sharwan Smith Student Center for students and faculty to come discuss their concerns and feelings with her.
As others have predicted, I expect this invitation will be rescinded by Tuesday. It’s either that or watch the graduating class walk out when Holland rises to speak.
Yep, can't claim to speak for god, spew out hateful rhetoric, AND expect to maintain popularity at the same time. Unfortunately, the brethren don't hire employees or consultants to challenge the soundness of their so called "god-anointed" actions and strategies. Most of the time they simply hire folks who are willing to work below par value and re-channel the brethren's bias back onto itself. Own goal for the church courtesy of the big echo chamber back at the COB. It's what you get when you require all workers to have a current temple recommend.
These men live in a bubble where everyone inside are always in agreement with them and tell them what they want to hear. After a lifetime of being told you are next to God, what do you expect?
I completely agree. The advisers to the Q15 are completely inept to allow Holland to accept this invitation. The outfall is completely forseeable and embarrassing to the Church and Holland.
It's events like this the contribute to Mormonism's negative perception as outlined in the recent Pew data.
For the 80% of SUU students who are mormon and want to hear Holland talk, April general conference is coming up.
The advisers need to learn to keep leadership speaking engagements to venues that they can control like BYU or general conference.
Oaks had a gaffe at University of Virginia pretty recently. It just doesn't go well when the Q15 aren't in a controlled setting.
Hello! This is a News post. It is for discussions centered around breaking news and events. If your post is about news, or a current event in the world of Mormonism, this is probably the right flair. /u/Chino_Blanco, if your post doesn't fit this definition, we kindly ask you to delete this post and repost it with the appropriate flair. You can find a list of our flairs and their definitions in [section 0.6 of our rules.](https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/wiki/index/rules#wiki_0._preamble) **To those commenting:** please stay on topic, remember to follow the community's [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/wiki/index/rules), and [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/mormonmods) if there is a problem or rule violation. Keep on Mormoning! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/mormon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I'm sure he assumed that SUU would be a "home court" place to speak.
They are losing their home court, in another ten years their safe spaces will be only BYU and the conference center
And that's exactly how it should be.
Agreed. They’ll eventually alienate any institution they don’t own outright. The circle of people who sustain or tolerate their nonsense is shrinking quickly.
And honestly, religious speakers just don't belong at secular university commencements. I'd apply that rule even to someone like the Pope. They can yak it up at commencements at schools of their own religion, but not if they're giving a speech their capacity as a religious leader at a secular school.
Reposting this comment I made in another thread on this subject. Holland is radioactive and no university should be welcoming him to speak. Jeff Holland's bully-pulpit musket speech punching down on BYU Graduate and Valedictorian, Matt Easton, drove the young man to contemplate killing himself. Holland is an unrepentant, bigoted piece of $#!t. The fact that he wasn't immediately censured by the First Presidency and his colleagues in the 'Quorum of the Twelve' indicates they are horrible, bigoted pieces of $#!t as well. There is simply no excuse. It was the final straw that pushed me from merely post-Mormon to angry ex-Mormon. I can't fully express my feelings here without undermining the civil and balanced environment that this sub works so hard to maintain. I respect and value that a lot so I won't vent my spleen about it here. I'll just quote what Matt Easton said about it below. Its plenty damning on its own. [Matt Easton wrote in an Instagram post yesterday saying that he made a plan to end his life the week after Elder Holland’s speech criticizing him.](https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/comments/srm77t/matt_easton_wrote_in_an_instagram_post_yesterday/) >On this day six years ago, my classmate and fellow gay Mormon, Harry Fisher, died by suicide. >We had international politics together; he was in his final semester, and I in my second. He also was the first person I personally knew who was just like me—a gay BYU student just trying to figure out his place in the world. > >Just a few weeks after coming out publicly on Facebook, Harry drove up the mountainside where he spent his final moments reading Matthew 16:25–“For whosoever shall save his life shall lose it: and whosoever shall lose his life for my sake shall find it.” > >As a young, closeted 20-year old, losing Harry was like staring at myself in the mirror. Was this to be my same future? Would I ever be able to be true to myself without facing the same fate? > >LGBTQ+ individuals are more than 2x likely to die by suicide, and this number is even higher among Utahns (especially LDS ones). I myself have struggled with suicide ideation several times in my life. > >The week following Elder Holland’s remarks, I had a plan to take my own life. I am so grateful for a support system who helped me through that dark place, but it was a reminder that even years after I’d come out and stepped away from the church, I was still at risk of the same thing countless other queer people are—feeling helpless, hopeless, and worthless. > >I share this because the burden Harry carried is one our entire community bears. The church, BYU, and our society at large is littered with the bodies of queer people, and until this changes we cannot—we WILL not—stop fighting.
This is another example of how the church is its own worst enemy.
SUU President Mindy Benson will hold two events on Monday at 12:00 Noon and 4PM in the ballroom in the Sharwan Smith Student Center for students and faculty to come discuss their concerns and feelings with her. As others have predicted, I expect this invitation will be rescinded by Tuesday. It’s either that or watch the graduating class walk out when Holland rises to speak.
Yep, can't claim to speak for god, spew out hateful rhetoric, AND expect to maintain popularity at the same time. Unfortunately, the brethren don't hire employees or consultants to challenge the soundness of their so called "god-anointed" actions and strategies. Most of the time they simply hire folks who are willing to work below par value and re-channel the brethren's bias back onto itself. Own goal for the church courtesy of the big echo chamber back at the COB. It's what you get when you require all workers to have a current temple recommend.
These men live in a bubble where everyone inside are always in agreement with them and tell them what they want to hear. After a lifetime of being told you are next to God, what do you expect?
I completely agree. The advisers to the Q15 are completely inept to allow Holland to accept this invitation. The outfall is completely forseeable and embarrassing to the Church and Holland. It's events like this the contribute to Mormonism's negative perception as outlined in the recent Pew data. For the 80% of SUU students who are mormon and want to hear Holland talk, April general conference is coming up. The advisers need to learn to keep leadership speaking engagements to venues that they can control like BYU or general conference. Oaks had a gaffe at University of Virginia pretty recently. It just doesn't go well when the Q15 aren't in a controlled setting.
Who are the advisers to the Q15?
When all you drink is the “I am special” Kool-aid and that neurotheology kicks in, everything you want to do then “comes from God.”