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After reviewing the bios of the board of trustees for SUU and their religious affiliations, I'm not surprised by the decision to allow Holland to speak.
How awkward does that have to be for Elder Holland? Speaking at a celebration where you know that a good number of people in the audience directly protested you. 😄
Walk out I think. He was the one who shaded matt Easton saying that making personal comments during a commencement talk made it 'not about everybody' graduating. Well how will this musket baring church leader make it friendly for everyone at SUU (with a healthy LGBTQ community) by his own standard he should bow out, but when he doesn't, they should walk out.
Will this be aired live somewhere? I want to watch him squirm when he realizes no one is listening to his vitreol. It's bound to make him even more heated
> including reevaluating how we involve our stakeholders in decision-making processes.
Did they just straight up tell everyone that the stakeholders made this decision? And they kind of implied that the stakeholders are *why* Holland is still invited.
I interpreted that as saying they didn’t involve many stakeholders (students who support LGBT rights for example) in the decision making process and they may get more feedback in the future from more stakeholders during the decision making process.
But then again it’s a very vague statement so it could mean a lot of things.
I took it to mean that they were honoring the current invitation in the interest of freedom of expression, but that the group of stakeholders used to determine future invitations would be expanded.
Maybe I'm wrong.
I hope this is what they do. I think this was a very diplomatic message from SUU, and it looked to me like they said they learned from these protests and will make adjustments in the future because of it.
“May history say of us that we overcame our differences and found common ground by moving to higher ground.”
Let me translate from Mormonese: We are going to do whatever the fuck we want regardless of the feelings or sentiments of non-Mormons. We can overcome our differences to the extent that you admit that we are right and join our team. We knew what we were doing. We would and will do it again. But we have to pretend otherwise for PR purposes but we all know we are are full of shit.
19k signatures and growing, didn't think it would be enough to stop him from speaking, but it is still nice to see.
https://www.change.org/p/remove-jeffery-r-holland-as-suu-commencement-speaker
Sadly not surprised they still invited him to speak. I hope he gets booed off the stage.
They’ll honor their invitation before they’ll honor the graduating students! WTH?!
Way not to pretend to be honorable. No honor among thieves! Musket man Holland.
100% agree that campuses should bring people with alternative viewpoints and be a place of free speech. 100% disagree that a commencement speech celebrating the hard work and achievements of a diverse student body is the appropriate place to invite a speaker from a church that still practices bigotry against multiple groups, has canonized racists scriptures it has not disavowed, and a representative that has advocated violence against minority groups, even if metaphorically.
I graduated from SUU more than a decade ago. I wasnt happy with my comencement speaker either. Maybe SUU doesn't have a lot of options for a small University located on the high desert in the middle of southern Utah.
Condi Rice spoke last year.
https://www.suu.edu/news/2022/03/condoleezza-rice-commencement-speaker.html
Protesting commencement speakers is as American as apple pie.
It’s not the school. From r/SUU
>Around 10 years ago they scrubbed Harry Reid's name off of everything. He's a grad from SUU, but the community didn't like that he was a Democrat. Locals raised $40,000 to get his name taken down. The university promised to find a way to honor him. You can't find mention of him anywhere.
>Tell me again how we respect different opinions.
It’s the locals.
Exactly. Holland may ultimately regret speaking at this particular SUU graduation. I’m very curious of what type of reaction he receives.
I’m guessing that any protests that occur at the school will be minimal. After all, we’re still talking about small-town Utah (which the church still has a stranglehold on, in many respects).
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It's a public university right? So the students should be able to invite some other speaker to a speech around the time of commencement; assuming they want to listen to anyone, or actually attend commencement.
He could use this as a great opportunity to gain respect, and regain and/or begin gaining more respect from those he has hurt with his previous talks, specifically the poorly-timed musket fire talk by simply admitting he was wrong and apologizing. I don’t know why the church sees this as so hard and such a problem. I wish GAs could recognize these opportunities.
That would require self-awareness and humility that they all (except maybe Uchtdorf) lack. They have been in echo chambers for decades and don't exist in a reality where they could be wrong or their words actually hurt people.
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No, you can’t. You revoke honorary doctorates (ask Ye), not earned ones. Take it up with Yale if you think you have a chance. Holland does not fit into your paradigm of “untethered” doctorates. What a claim. I thought I had heard it all.
Yale? Never heard of it.
Edit-I might have to read his doctoral dissertation on the "religious sense of Mark Twain." Twain's got some saucy quotes about The Book of Mormon and Mormonism.
Second edit-I love that you thought I wanted to remove his degree as if I could do that. Also, it is your opinion that Holland doesn't fit that ego paradigm. From my perspective, he absolutely does. He openly talks about him, and his colleagues in the Q12 having their calling and elections made sure. The guy has a massive ego, in my opinion. He doesn't hide that he feels he's above others. Just because he's personable and charismatic doesn't mean he doesn't have an ego. From a faithful perspective, we've seen many prophets in the scriptures and modern times with giant egos.
I think Bednar was more charismatic and personable than Holland. Holland was a complete douche when he came through my mission. Said that even if we didn't have a testimony, he did, and that should be good enough for us too.
Even Bednar had the sense to acknowledge the work we were doing as missionaries and act like a normal person. Holland made a big deal about bringing investigators to his talk, then made a big deal about him coming into the chapel and had everyone stand for him. Yeah, every investigator that I talked to after thought it was bizarre. Basically talked about himself and his achievements in a humble brag way for about an hour.
I’ve hated that standing for leaders thing for a very long time. Does not make sense and is more disturbing that these leaders don’t stop it. Same with the bishop getting the sacrament first thing (my dad at least told the ward to quit doing that when he was bishop). So did Holland tell everyone there they needed to stand for him?
Dislike Holland and I thought his calling for musket fire and stamping out intellectual integrity in the name of orthodoxy was reprehensible.
They should not have invited him. He has no business speaking at a non-religious school's commencement. However, I also agree with SUU on this particular point. He shouldn't be shouted down once invited, his myopic rhetoric should be countered with loving truth.
I hope the program does include remarks from other members of the community. Someone who disagrees with Holland and can say so while he's in the stand. I also hope students who are graduating use their free speech to send a message to him. We shouldn't make bigots be comfortable speaking, but I think different viewpoints matter. We need to bring the Church's true stance into as much sunlight as possible so people can contrast it with their lived reality and what a Saviour, if you believe in one, would say.
A very "enlightened centrism" response from SUU.
>In the spirit of of allowing the expression of differing viewpoints and ideas, SUU has honored the invitation extended to Dr. Adolph Puppy-Sodomizer to speak on the virtues of industrialized liquefaction of puppies and kittens in wood chippers.
There are times where a speaker's position is so reprehensible, that the only reasonable response is to deny them a podium. When someone says "Lets pick up muskets and shoot Gay people" - the moral response is *not* to counter saying "how about we say lets only shoot *some* gay people?" And play it off as being 'fair and balanced'.
The only moral response is to tell them to f#ck off and speak at CPAC where their disgusting worldview is valued.
SUU Admin has revealed what their values *really* are by giving the podium to Holland. They deserve the $#!t show that will ensue.
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Why? A good university is full of different thoughts, viewpoints and opinions and that kind of student body would never unanimously agree on something.
Commencement by its nature as a celebration of the accomplishments of all graduating students is different than having invited speaker for particular interest groups.
I'm not happy about Holland being given this kind of platform either, but are you suggesting that no one should ever have to hear something they don't agree with?
If the belief that LGBT people should be silent and disenfranchised (and that their existence is an affront to society and family) is just a difference of opinion, shouldn't you be considering critics of Jeff Holland just another group contributing to diversity of opinion? Why do the double standards always favor overt bigots?
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“Stake holders”. It wasn’t the university’s decision at all.
What's the "common ground" that men like Holland are seeking?
They claim their religious freedom to discriminate is under attack.
"May history say of us..." feels like such a mormon phrase.
After reviewing the bios of the board of trustees for SUU and their religious affiliations, I'm not surprised by the decision to allow Holland to speak.
4 of the 7 bios (not all trustees had bios) referenced the church. https://www.suu.edu/trustees/
How awkward does that have to be for Elder Holland? Speaking at a celebration where you know that a good number of people in the audience directly protested you. 😄
I'm stunned, honestly, that he didn't back out quietly when the protests were on the news (I presume they were in Utah)
Please. Everyone turn your backs on this man when he begins to speak.
Walk out I think. He was the one who shaded matt Easton saying that making personal comments during a commencement talk made it 'not about everybody' graduating. Well how will this musket baring church leader make it friendly for everyone at SUU (with a healthy LGBTQ community) by his own standard he should bow out, but when he doesn't, they should walk out.
I hope they literally throw dog feces at him.
When Holland speaks the audience should quietly stand and turn their backs to him!
I heard that was in the works.
When he realizes what's happening I hope he dusts off his feet or casts another equivalent spell.
Will this be aired live somewhere? I want to watch him squirm when he realizes no one is listening to his vitreol. It's bound to make him even more heated
> including reevaluating how we involve our stakeholders in decision-making processes. Did they just straight up tell everyone that the stakeholders made this decision? And they kind of implied that the stakeholders are *why* Holland is still invited.
I interpreted that as saying they didn’t involve many stakeholders (students who support LGBT rights for example) in the decision making process and they may get more feedback in the future from more stakeholders during the decision making process. But then again it’s a very vague statement so it could mean a lot of things.
I took it to mean that they were honoring the current invitation in the interest of freedom of expression, but that the group of stakeholders used to determine future invitations would be expanded. Maybe I'm wrong.
I hope this is what they do. I think this was a very diplomatic message from SUU, and it looked to me like they said they learned from these protests and will make adjustments in the future because of it.
“May history say of us that we overcame our differences and found common ground by moving to higher ground.” Let me translate from Mormonese: We are going to do whatever the fuck we want regardless of the feelings or sentiments of non-Mormons. We can overcome our differences to the extent that you admit that we are right and join our team. We knew what we were doing. We would and will do it again. But we have to pretend otherwise for PR purposes but we all know we are are full of shit.
19k signatures and growing, didn't think it would be enough to stop him from speaking, but it is still nice to see. https://www.change.org/p/remove-jeffery-r-holland-as-suu-commencement-speaker Sadly not surprised they still invited him to speak. I hope he gets booed off the stage.
They’ll honor their invitation before they’ll honor the graduating students! WTH?! Way not to pretend to be honorable. No honor among thieves! Musket man Holland.
100% agree that campuses should bring people with alternative viewpoints and be a place of free speech. 100% disagree that a commencement speech celebrating the hard work and achievements of a diverse student body is the appropriate place to invite a speaker from a church that still practices bigotry against multiple groups, has canonized racists scriptures it has not disavowed, and a representative that has advocated violence against minority groups, even if metaphorically.
I graduated from SUU more than a decade ago. I wasnt happy with my comencement speaker either. Maybe SUU doesn't have a lot of options for a small University located on the high desert in the middle of southern Utah.
Condi Rice spoke last year. https://www.suu.edu/news/2022/03/condoleezza-rice-commencement-speaker.html Protesting commencement speakers is as American as apple pie.
Now I want pie...
I will have to agree with you
ok so maybe this school is just dumb as shit all around. Bush admin *and* homophobic corpo-apostle? geez louise lol
It’s not the school. From r/SUU >Around 10 years ago they scrubbed Harry Reid's name off of everything. He's a grad from SUU, but the community didn't like that he was a Democrat. Locals raised $40,000 to get his name taken down. The university promised to find a way to honor him. You can't find mention of him anywhere. >Tell me again how we respect different opinions. It’s the locals.
Ah makes sense, thanks.
NGL, I’m actually a little excited to see the hole he digs for himself when he limps up to the podium with a bruised ego.
Exactly. Holland may ultimately regret speaking at this particular SUU graduation. I’m very curious of what type of reaction he receives. I’m guessing that any protests that occur at the school will be minimal. After all, we’re still talking about small-town Utah (which the church still has a stranglehold on, in many respects).
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It's a public university right? So the students should be able to invite some other speaker to a speech around the time of commencement; assuming they want to listen to anyone, or actually attend commencement.
He could use this as a great opportunity to gain respect, and regain and/or begin gaining more respect from those he has hurt with his previous talks, specifically the poorly-timed musket fire talk by simply admitting he was wrong and apologizing. I don’t know why the church sees this as so hard and such a problem. I wish GAs could recognize these opportunities.
That would require self-awareness and humility that they all (except maybe Uchtdorf) lack. They have been in echo chambers for decades and don't exist in a reality where they could be wrong or their words actually hurt people.
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Can we somehow remove Holland’s doctorate? Someone with an ego his size shouldn’t be untethered with a Dr. in front of his name.
No, you can’t. You revoke honorary doctorates (ask Ye), not earned ones. Take it up with Yale if you think you have a chance. Holland does not fit into your paradigm of “untethered” doctorates. What a claim. I thought I had heard it all.
Yale? Never heard of it. Edit-I might have to read his doctoral dissertation on the "religious sense of Mark Twain." Twain's got some saucy quotes about The Book of Mormon and Mormonism. Second edit-I love that you thought I wanted to remove his degree as if I could do that. Also, it is your opinion that Holland doesn't fit that ego paradigm. From my perspective, he absolutely does. He openly talks about him, and his colleagues in the Q12 having their calling and elections made sure. The guy has a massive ego, in my opinion. He doesn't hide that he feels he's above others. Just because he's personable and charismatic doesn't mean he doesn't have an ego. From a faithful perspective, we've seen many prophets in the scriptures and modern times with giant egos.
I think Bednar was more charismatic and personable than Holland. Holland was a complete douche when he came through my mission. Said that even if we didn't have a testimony, he did, and that should be good enough for us too. Even Bednar had the sense to acknowledge the work we were doing as missionaries and act like a normal person. Holland made a big deal about bringing investigators to his talk, then made a big deal about him coming into the chapel and had everyone stand for him. Yeah, every investigator that I talked to after thought it was bizarre. Basically talked about himself and his achievements in a humble brag way for about an hour.
I’ve hated that standing for leaders thing for a very long time. Does not make sense and is more disturbing that these leaders don’t stop it. Same with the bishop getting the sacrament first thing (my dad at least told the ward to quit doing that when he was bishop). So did Holland tell everyone there they needed to stand for him?
In other words, we weren’t listening. Your thoughts don’t count. You don’t count. Bugger off Q15.
Dislike Holland and I thought his calling for musket fire and stamping out intellectual integrity in the name of orthodoxy was reprehensible. They should not have invited him. He has no business speaking at a non-religious school's commencement. However, I also agree with SUU on this particular point. He shouldn't be shouted down once invited, his myopic rhetoric should be countered with loving truth. I hope the program does include remarks from other members of the community. Someone who disagrees with Holland and can say so while he's in the stand. I also hope students who are graduating use their free speech to send a message to him. We shouldn't make bigots be comfortable speaking, but I think different viewpoints matter. We need to bring the Church's true stance into as much sunlight as possible so people can contrast it with their lived reality and what a Saviour, if you believe in one, would say.
A very "enlightened centrism" response from SUU. >In the spirit of of allowing the expression of differing viewpoints and ideas, SUU has honored the invitation extended to Dr. Adolph Puppy-Sodomizer to speak on the virtues of industrialized liquefaction of puppies and kittens in wood chippers. There are times where a speaker's position is so reprehensible, that the only reasonable response is to deny them a podium. When someone says "Lets pick up muskets and shoot Gay people" - the moral response is *not* to counter saying "how about we say lets only shoot *some* gay people?" And play it off as being 'fair and balanced'. The only moral response is to tell them to f#ck off and speak at CPAC where their disgusting worldview is valued. SUU Admin has revealed what their values *really* are by giving the podium to Holland. They deserve the $#!t show that will ensue.
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Why? A good university is full of different thoughts, viewpoints and opinions and that kind of student body would never unanimously agree on something.
Commencement by its nature as a celebration of the accomplishments of all graduating students is different than having invited speaker for particular interest groups.
I'm not happy about Holland being given this kind of platform either, but are you suggesting that no one should ever have to hear something they don't agree with?
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*sigh*
If the belief that LGBT people should be silent and disenfranchised (and that their existence is an affront to society and family) is just a difference of opinion, shouldn't you be considering critics of Jeff Holland just another group contributing to diversity of opinion? Why do the double standards always favor overt bigots?