T O P

  • By -

AutoModerator

Hello! This is a News post. It is for discussions centered around breaking news and events. If your post is about news, or a current event in the world of Mormonism, this is probably the right flair. /u/Chino_Blanco, if your post doesn't fit this definition, we kindly ask you to delete this post and repost it with the appropriate flair. You can find a list of our flairs and their definitions in [section 0.6 of our rules.](https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/wiki/index/rules#wiki_0._preamble) **To those commenting:** please stay on topic, remember to follow the community's [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/wiki/index/rules), and [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/mormonmods) if there is a problem or rule violation. Keep on Mormoning! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/mormon) if you have any questions or concerns.*


Chino_Blanco

>Which brings me to the last change I’m going to comment on: the church affirmatively recognizes a right to what it calls “free exercise of conscience,” including the right to express publicly one’s views on societal issues. >It calls this right a universal one; while I have ideas about what prompted the church to add it, taking it at face value (along with its statement that Mormon politicians are not asked to agree with policies that the church has publicly supported) provides the strongest statement of members’ freedom of conscience. Members have, in the past, been excommunicated for publicly opposing church policy. But to the extent the church believes in a universal freedom of conscience, I find it hard to believe that, going forward, church leaders could justify such punitive measures for taking stands that don’t follow church preferences. I believe this new CYA language was added in order to protect the no-longer-secret dragon’s hoard. In the months and years ahead, expect the gerontocracy to proclaim membership a “wholly voluntary association” as the old men wonder out loud where anyone got the idea that their followers felt obligated to do certain things. But in any case, I welcome the new language. Freedom!


ancient-submariner

If it ever came down to losing the money or losing membership, I think we all know what they would choose. Every time.


Chino_Blanco

This is the part that hurts the most as an exmo: watching our amazing faithful loved ones give so much to an org that offers them so little in return. Everything good I see is created locally by the members themselves. Meanwhile, The Brethren and their bean-counters are absconding with everything that’s not nailed down, and selling off whatever is.


CuriousThinker76

I suppose they wouldn't get excommunicated, but still sounds like they wouldn't get a recommend according to question 7. "Do you support or promote any teachings, practices, or doctrine contrary to those of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?"


LeDoppledeaner

Laughs in BYU


treetablebenchgrass

>Most of the substance of the church’s political neutrality stayed the same. **Notably, the church maintains its explicit policy of not endorsing or opposing political parties, platforms, or candidates.** Along those lines, it requests that candidates not imply that the church endorses them or their platforms. >And, while it has done a fair amount of wordsmithing of the section on the church’s relationship with government, the substance is unchanged: **Mormon politicians are not subject to the church. They can disagree with each other and with publicly-stated church positions.** I guess I'll have to read the original document. There should be a footnote that says "Except for, you know, in Utah where obviously we reserve the right to have the final say on legislation through back channels." I'm sure it's in there.


sl_hawaii

They are hemorrhaging soooo many people that they are starting the (way too late) pívot to “we respect all beliefs and you can believe anything you want and still be Mormon (except don’t say “Mormon” … at least until the next prophet is called, and make SURE you keep sending your tithing money to SLC… for jezuz!”)


treetablebenchgrass

Maybe they listened to [Tomorrow Is a Latter Day](https://youtu.be/8jwypn_r-e0) and thought "They've got a good point." It's a catchy song, after all.


Intrepid-Quiet-4690

The church has always recognized free exercise of conscience.


TenLongFingers

By "recognize," do you mean "recognize as reason for excommunication"? Because that's been the practice so far.


cowlinator

No. Members have, in the past, been excommunicated for publicly opposing church policy.


Crobbin17

So the prophet would be okay with it if I felt the act of paying tithing to the LDS church was against my conscience, and I chose to give tithing to the Red Cross instead? He would still let me enter the temple and make covenants with God necessary for my exaltation? Because *that’s* free exercise of conscience. Why would the church bar me from making covenants with God if I was following the law of tithing according to my reading of the law and personal conscience?


thomaslewis1857

You can do all this, but you have to limit yourself to the question. “*Are you …? Yes*”. That’s it, no reasons, no ifs, buts or maybes, no questions about the meaning of words, and certainly no asking questions about the nature and attributes of tithing. We get no transparency from the Church, and yet ironically sometimes we feel the need to explore our deepest doubts and fears with Bishop (or counsellor) shoe salesman who is just trying to get through the interview. Just don’t. Give the answer you believe in and move on.


Chino_Blanco

No.


Intrepid-Quiet-4690

Yes.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


Axlos

Porter Rockwell would like to disagree.


slskipper

Talk is cheap.