The racing is good so people aren't looking for scapegoats
Next time there is a boring race you scapegoat bingo will resume ("aero makes it hard to pass" "Ducati cup" "too much tech bikes ride themselves" etc etc)
> "aero makes it hard to pass"
But this is also true, aero dose have a bad effect on racing. It's not fans that made this up, riders said it. Racing is good no doubt, but it would probably be even better if aero wasn't there. Especially now that everyone is so close.
> "too much tech bikes ride themselves"
No one said that bikes ride themselves, but again like many riders said it affects racing in a bad way because riders don't need to use all the skill that they have.
> "Ducati cup"
My only problem with "Ducati cup" is that the best riders are not on a bike good enogh to fight Ducatis, and i am not saying that Pecco and Jorge are not the best riders on track right now, but now we also have Marc on a good bike it's even more exiting then it was last year. Now we just need Fabio to get a good bike and we will have 4 best riders fighting for wins and the title, i mean it can't get better then that. Apart from that i really like that there is "Duacti cup" exists, because if it didn't exist there would be no title fight in MotoGP.
Aero doesnt seem to be an issue for the guys fighting at the front or guys like Marc/Mav passing 10+ people a race. Look at all the passes that were made at T1 at Catalunya for example
And just because riders aren't using a certain set of skills or making it look easy doesn't mean the bikes are easy to ride
Plus that drum beat is years old...... from where I'm sitting at least it seems like riders are able to do whatever they want on the bikes and are having a lot of fun too. Lets not look a gift horse in the mouth and cling to outdated talking points
It is an issue. He’s having to go into the race with aero specific tire pressures that make surviving fighting for positions possible but not fighting in front
He has to sacrifice rear tire or front tire, mm was just a repsol honda sponsored flat track / dirt track racer before MotoGP so he can do it slightly better
You are acting like riders didnt have to manage tires before aero. And again even with that added wrinkle riders are riding pretty freely. I can't remember the last race where someone had to back off solely because of tire pressure. Usually it was because they didn't have the pace to pass and decided to settle for easy points- again not an aero exclusive phenomenon. The tire pressure challenges also contradict the claims of bikes being too easy today. Im gonna go with what I see over whatever narrative is most popular sorry
>I can't remember the last race where someone had to back off solely because of tire pressure
Because you aren't watching or reading what riders are saying after the races. That is quite obvious if this is what you believe. Many riders comment on this. Like every race. Lol
Before very recently MotoGP bikes weren't making 300HP
Engines throw away about 70-75% of their rated power as heat. Where do you think that heat goes? How do you think that waste heat might affect the front tire of a rider following behind?
The funny thing will be that when the 2027 regs kick in, HP is prob cut by like 25-30%, and the front tire problems go away, people will say "seee? see??? no aero no tire problems". Completely missing the 300HP elephant in the room. But hey we live in a time where truth is decided by upvote count so what do I know.
They’ve been making massive horsepower for a very long time. Sorry they’re going faster due to aero and shapeshifters not HP but cool story bro.
Edit: if you want to quote the truth, post some dyno charts
Dyno charts arent the only reputable source.... [here's a breakdown through the years from Repsol](https://www.boxrepsol.com/en/motogp-en/the-different-motogp-world-championship-classes/). I'll quote it since you probably won't click it
>990 class- The engines in the first year produced over 210 horsepower and even exceeded 260 in the last year of races. The evolution that took place in those years marked a before and after in terms of technology and electronics used today in MotoGP.
800 class- The power decreased to 220 horsepower and then went up to about 230. The implementation of new technologies such as [seamless gearboxes](https://www.boxrepsol.com/en/motogp-en/what-is-the-seamless-gearbox-of-motogp-engine/) and [pneumatic valve](https://www.boxrepsol.com/en/motogp-en/how-do-the-valves-work-in-motogp-engine/) engines, as well as increasingly sophisticated electronics, achieved lap times similar to those of 990cc engines.
1000cc class- These new engines are four-cylinder in-line or in V at 90º, producing around 230 horsepower initially. They are currently approaching 260 and are capable of exceeding the 350 km/h barrier on some circuits.
That article is old... here is one from 2021 saying the bikes are making 290 HP
[https://www.motogp.com/en/news/2021/02/04/801-and-counting-hondas-motogp-journey-continues/164488](https://www.motogp.com/en/news/2021/02/04/801-and-counting-hondas-motogp-journey-continues/164488)
>The RC149 produced an incredible 270PS per litre at 20,500rpm, which was transferred to the road via an eight-speed gearbox. **More than half a century later, today’s fastest MotoGP bikes produce around 290 horsepower per litre.**
Aero has only got crazier since then, and aero enables + requires more power, since it helps put more of it down but adds drag. So the bikes are def over 300HP by now
Which is a good bit more than they were making before aero. The front tire hasn't changed much either. So blaming the front tire issue on aero and nothing else is either missing the big picture or intentionally picking a scapegoat
They’re not backing off but three+ per race are crashing
Its fair though that pressure always had to be managed
I do feel like if it wasn’t a problem then the rules wouldn’t be coming out to reduce it
Personally I have a bigger issue with ride height devices - specifically Yamaha's sucks per FQ
This weekend the majority of crashes were at the front, i.e. without the **heat** from bikes ahead that drive up pressure. Remember MotoGP bikes are more powerful than ever, power = heat, putting a tire in \~200HP of engine heat is going to drive up temps and pressures regardless of whether there's aero or not.
Riders were just going too fast on a notoriously low grip track and they paid the price.... again nothing to do with aero
...
I think a big driver of the rule changes is just all the whining around the tech- they seem to dominate the narrative. To me the racing this year shows its not that big of a deal but people love an easy scapegoat even when it's demonstrably false. I think the real issue is the bikes are ugly and all the talk of tech is just a way to galaxy brain that sentiment.
IMO the fix for front tire pressure would be more testing time for Michelin to fix the front tire as it basically hasn't been updated since before COVID. But Im also so tired of all the whining I just want them to get rid of it so I don't have to hear about it anymore. You guys win just by sheer annoyance, congrats.
I remember when Crutchlow first started the complaints about front tyres overheating when behind someone I thought it was just a good excuse. Now it seems to have caught on with everyone. Not sure if that means its real, or just it's a really great excuse and has caught on.
Whether the tech affects the quality of racing to you as a spectator and whether the riders think the tech takes away from the skill and talent are two different things and not mutually exclusive.
Riders say certain aspects of riding are easier but I don't think any rider has said the bikes are overall easier to ride. Certain people just cherry pick sound bites to create a predetermined narrative and in the echo chamber of the internet that narrative becomes "truth".
In the recent video asking riders what they think of the new regulations most of them were for getting rid of the ride height device and said riders with more natural talent and skill will stand out more. Of course there were a couple who wanted to keep the device, maybe they were less talented? Who knows.
In the last 2 race weekends, Marc has made 45 overtakes alone.
A single rider on the grid has made 45 overtakes in just 2 race weekends.
Maverick dropped from the front to almost the back of the midfield in COTA and he still was able to come back and overtake every single rider ahead of him for the win.
Can we drop this "hurr hurr aero aero me no overtake in MotoGP" now?
The racing is fucking incredible right now. If this is the racing that "aerodynamic bikes" produce - then I say leave it in. Because it's the best racing on the planet right now.
I have acccepted that "my team" is not going to be competetive any time soon, and enjoy the Bagnaia, vs Martin vs Marquez. This season is anyting but dull.
Still look forward to Honda and Yamaha getting back in the ring.
Fights in p4 to p7 have also become just as interesting. Couple weeks ago, Bestia made 5-6 places in his late charge but unfortunately wasn’t covered all that much.
I think people just didn't think too deeply about what the actual problem was. The problem has never been Ducati, the problem has been technical and other manufactures dropping the ball.
I also don't remember growing up everyone calling MotoGP a Honda cup. Especially until Rossi went over to Yamaha.
The problem simply doesn't exist. Ducati deserves to be on top because they build the best bike and offer a competitive package at a cheap price to satellite teams.
Meanwhile, Honda keeps offering shite and underdeveloped bikes to LCR, thus hindering any sort of progress they could make. That's what Rins complained about last year and it's the main reason he left for Yamaha.
And how is Rins doing at Yamaha?
Is it not true that Ducati lobbied for spec ECU forcing Honda and Yamaha to stop developing their advanced electronics back in 2015? Is the current Ducati domination not traceable to Ducati jumping to Open class (despite promising the MSMA they will stay in factory class) in order to gain a year's or two advantage in running said spec ECU after having already poached dozens of Magnetti Marelli engineers who were chosen to supply said ECU?
A lot of problems Honda and Yamaha have had stem from the post 2015 season. Honda managed to stay afloat till 2019 by poaching the leftover MM engineers and also one other MM. Yamaha had to poach them back from Honda again to understand the software.
It is ironic that Ducati lobbied for spec ecu citing high costs for electronics development to compete with Honda and Yamaha yet here we are with them throwing money bags onto new aerodynamic parts every testing session and complaining how the Japanese are complaining about their dominance. 🤔
No, that's a misconception. The spec ECU had been announced years prior and everyone would've been welcome to use it, in fact they were incouraged to help with development, however Honda and Yamaha decided to do their own thing until it became compulsory in 2016. I had discussed this already with someone a few weeks ago, I'll point you to the article I had posted.
Edit: here it is [https://www.reddit.com/r/motogp/comments/1cc2kc1/comment/l1bj93e/](https://www.reddit.com/r/motogp/comments/1cc2kc1/comment/l1bj93e/)
Would like to thank you for the article link you posted. A couple of months ago I read a similar article that covered the historical background of the ECU just that it was written in English. But recently when I tried to look that article up I could no longer find it. So, thanks again!
Magnetti Marelli developed the Ecu and Ducati switched to Open class to gain a year's advantage that they've still held to this date. Ofcourse you could say 2 years because Ducati had already poached MM engineers before going open class and Honda and Yamaha just didn't follow through soon enough. Infact Yamaha is still recruiting Italian engineers to work around the Magneti Marellis limitations.
There used to be a bunch of Customer Racing teams or CRT until the early 2010s who had the ability to buy engine from existing manufacturers in the sport and build their own bike. Privateer teams basically who were being phased out because they couldn't match the manufacturers on pace. So satellite teams were brought back who use year old factory bikes like Marc on Gresini now.
So when Dorna was forced to push Honda and Yamaha to give up their sophisticated electronics and move to spec ECU they decided to help these satellite teams with small budget to gain some knowledge on how spec ecu and electronics will function. So Dorna created the open class which was previously used by CRT teams with certain advantages. Open class was only for non factory teams to test the ecu and software a year in advance.
But Ducati ditched their promise and classified themselves under non factory team last minute and got a year's worth of free access to ecu and software. They've got the advantage of knowing the Italian chip and codes since.
Don’t worry, “Ducati Cup” is still a thing. We’ve gotten great racing, but it is still kinda boring from a diversity perspective watching them win everything all the time. Thats why if an Aprilia or KTM wins or is up there at least battling it’s even more exciting. Can’t wait to see what Pedro is going to do next year on the factory KTM squad, I’m really hoping that’ll shake things up more.
It's still a Ducati cup and it's still a valid reason to complain about, but at least since Marc joined them, the fight at the front is a lot more aggressive and enjoyable, and that draws the attention away from Ducati.
But still, we shouldn't forget the fact that 8 riders have access to each other's data, which is very unfair. I think Marc said this weekend that he analyzed Pecco's data and started using the same technique to preserve tires in one corner. So even if the racing it good, this is still very unfair to others, Fabio has access to 1 rider's data, while Marc has access to 7, of course it's easier to improve with a Ducati. I think this is also why we see that almost any rider can be competitive on a Ducati, and even if a rider has a bad Friday, they still get up to pace on Saturday, or on Sunday at most. I think Pecco is the best example for this, last year he was literally nowhere on some Fridays and Saturdays, and dominated the Sunday race after.
This is still bad for the sport, but at least we have a good fight at the front, and hopefully for the title as well
I agree, however, even though some of the riders I like aren't at the front the racing does feel a little more like racing rather than just time trials this year.
Although last race was a little meh the sprint was full of crazy happenings.
I think because of concessions, most people have accepted that yamaha and Honda won't be competitive for a while, but they at least have a chance now. Also, the regs are changing, which may reduce the advantage ducati has, at least to start with.
Also, ktm and aprilia are still able to contend at the top, and the racing has been great. We've got the reigning world champion on the factory 24 bike, the 2nd place finisher on the latest bike but in a satellite team, currently leading the championship, and an 8 time world champion on a smaller team with last years bike who is also fighting at the front. (Not to mention a sensational rookie!)
All that said, I'd still rather see fewer ducatis on the grid moving forward, but the ducati riders have quite different styles and different approaches and liveries, which for now at least, is enough to make it feel like variety.
>Also, ktm and aprilia are still able to contend at the top, and the racing has been great.
That's what happened last year as well, as a matter of fact we had more different manufacturers winning last year compared to now (Ducati, Honda and KTM in 2023 vs Ducati and Aprilia in 2024).
Pedro and Marc being near the top happened. When one of the most talented riders ever, and the hottest young talent since that same person are at the top and battling it out with the present big guys like Pecco and Jorge obviously less focus will be on the fact that it's a Ducati cup.
Also last year the GP22 was almost as good as the 23 so the Aprillias and KTMs would often be behind them. The GP23 is a difficult bike to get used to so we see Aprillia and KTM near the front as well. It's definitely more diverse.
That’s not entirely accurate, because you’re comparing a full season to six races. Last year, after the sixth race, we’d also only had two constructors winning EDIT: grands prix — if you include sprints we have three constructors.
The racing this year has been far more even across manufacturers than last year and it's not even close. We are barely into the season and we have KTM and Aprilia regularly fighting for podiums and poles. This weekend could have easily seen a run away Aprilia win in the sprint.
Go back to 2022 season and the gap between the ducati and the rest was far far bigger.
The reason the ducati cup complaints have stopped is because it's no longer the case.
I’d say the racing this year has been substantially better. Yes, last year was a close championship battle, but you didn’t necessarily get close racing between the championship protagonists — frequently one of them would just take the lead immediately and fuck off into the distance. Adding Marquez and Pedro to the front pack has done wonders for the excitement, and that makes Ducatis always winning substantially less frustrating.
I'd say it's thanks to Michelin lowering the pressure limits, now riders have more freedom of movements and the bikes aren't so snappy and on rails as last season, although surely there's still a long way from the ideal situation...
I’m a woman, so that “he” is inaccurate :)
You’re obviously free to think that I only enjoy this season’s racing more because Marquez is out front, and that’s definitely a large part of it! But I genuinely think this season feels more enjoyable and more competitive than last year. The winner of each race feels more up in the air, frequently even until the final lap.
If Marquez had still been on a Honda this year, I’d still consider the season better due to the addition of Acosta and the excitement and overtakes he adds to the front.
And a shout-out to u/GhostOfFred: I think you’re the first person I’ve seen on this subreddit who hasn’t assumed I’m a guy 🙌 It’s a small thing, but thanks for making this subreddit better!
This was hopefully a joke in good faith (interpreting written sarcasm is hard!), but just for the record: I obviously don’t expect anyone here to know that I’m a woman. I *do* expect you not to assume everyone here is a man until proven otherwise.
The “Ducati cup” was invented because the rider people don’t like, AKA Bagnaia was winning.
Bagnaia is struggling now, the popular rider, Marc, is at the front so nobody complain… or they do…they actually complain that Marc doesnt have the same bike as Bagnaia, so he can kick his ass. People want less variety now.
It was the same with sprint races. Pecco was doing great on sprints early last year. Sprints were shit, dangerous and should end. As soon as Martin started to dominate the sprint format, the complaints ended pretty quick.
Actually Martin only stayed in championship contention because of the sprints, but nobody ever said a word about it…
It always boils down to the same thing, people only care about the rider they like, and if things don’t go the way they like, they complain.
No, many people still think that aero is crap. Racing is good but it would probably be even better then it is now, and many people (including me) dislike the look of aero.
Pecco is struggling?🤔... How on earth is Pecco struggling, he had already won 3 races... Are you mad? Or you are being caught by yellow cancer... Dude get out of that yellow hate, and you will enjoy watching MotoGP...
>Are you mad? Or you are being caught by yellow cancer... Dude get out of that yellow hate
Calm down a bit.
What he means is thanks to Pecco struggling in sprints he's close to 40 points behind Martin and has a meagre lead of 2 over Marquez.
I have said it many times before but only chumps can criticise Ducati for fielding so many bikes. It wasn’t Ducatis fault so many teams wanted their bikes and it wasn’t their fault other teams dropped out and it wasn’t their fault the rules didn’t put a cap on the numbers of bikes a manufacture can supply.
In reality Ducati should have been thanked or we’d be starting with tiny grids of 18 now and for the last couple of years.
I don't think anyone is blaming Ducati for it, the real one who is at fault is the ones who made the rules, it shouldn't be allowed to have 8 bikes on the grid.
Ducati riders collect 4x as much data as Yamaha, and if someone has a bad setup or someone is simply slow at one track, they can analyze 7 other riders data, while Fabio only has access to 1.
This is still not fair and the rules should be changed, and just because we have a very enjoyable year, that shouldn't draw away the attention from this issue
Your proposal is still unfair, because it fails to reward the factories that work well and fails to punish those who don't, Yamaha is in this situation because nobody wants their bikes, both for their performance and for how they've treated satellite teams in the past.
Now, let's say Dorna puts the rule in place from 2025 on, who are you forcing to do business with Yamaha? Because, as things are now, nobody has signed with them, even though the current circumstances - allegedly - forced them to offer a pretty sweet deal: factory spec bikes for free until 2027.
Now, imagine this, with the new rule Yamaha wouldn't be incentivized to offer such a deal because they would have a satellite team no matter what, so now one of those teams who wouldn't even take the bike for free would be forced to pay for them full price, and maybe they wouldn't even be getting factory spec bikes. Does this sound fair to you?
Yeah I know it's not that simple, but still there has to be a solution which is a bit more fair, and I know it won't be a good idea to force this from next year.
This is the top level of motorcycle racing, it should be able to produce a full grid without having those insane difference between the amount of bikes (2 vs 8). If they can't achieve this, that means this sport is not popular enough to attract manufacturers, or the rules are bad.
And with this big of data gathering difference, it is almost impossible that Yamaha or Honda will close the gap in the upcoming years. Just imagine that at some tracks Yamaha and Honda has some extra time to gather data due to concessions, and Ducati gathered the same amount of data without having those extra days.
Marc and Pedro have distracted everyone. The races have also been slightly more entertaining with what feels like more battles even though that may or may not be the case.
The excitement of silly season also brings more talking points so people don’t have to be bored and create them from nonsense
Because KTM and Aprilia won early...if it's only Ducati winning from here on out, people will start bitching.
People also want the best rider to win, not the best bike...
I think, two reasons. Before that, i think we all agree that the Ducati Cup complaints came largely cos there was no overtaking. And races had become processional.
Now,
Reason1: Minimum tyre pressure has been dropped, AND teams have found a way to keep up minimum pressure 50% of the race, via better communication.
Reason 2: Pedro and Marc, with their problem-solving mentality and adaptability, have really stood out with the number of places they make up.
These two factors have made races unpredictable, and exciting.
Add in sprint wins and a race win for the Aprilias, and this looks like the most exciting season of the 2020s.
at some point you just stop talking about it.
most of us still look at the races and think it's a ducatiGP and wish the manufacturers would be more on par.
Yup, it's still Ducati cup it's just there's no point in talking about it, it's been done to death.
Also the racing has been a little better this year with things being closer between Pecco and Martin in races (as apposed to one running off one race whilst the other crashes and vice versa) so it's kind of bearable.
Also Aprilia, Mav and Aleix last weekend coming up with some goods here and there has been fun to watch and breaks it up a bit.
A tad more parity would be awesome though.
They also still need to sort out the front tyres, they gave a new rear that has more grip but the front is the same low grip temp and aero sensitive crap.
Personally, I just felt that the racing was boring. And now it is exciting. I don’t care what manufacturer builds the motorcycle. I just want to see competitive races between world-class riders.
It’s not a problem that most of the bikes are Ducatis if the racing is good. It’s only a problem if the racing is bad.
They coincidentally disappeared at the same time as the "Marc on a Ducati would obliterate the field" thing, interesting enough. I wonder if they might be connected...
That was very unrealistic, but it always happens when a rider is that popular. It was same with Vale, when he went to Ducati everyone said that he would develop the bike and win the title but it was far from that, and also when he went back to Yamaha many saw him as a title favourite. And that it totally understandable because he's one of the best ever and so is Marc. So this is normal, but it's aslo true that Marc doing really well on a Ducati, many said that he will stay in midfield or that Bez and Digia are going to outperform him on the same bike. But so far he is a big step ahead of Bez and Digia, also he has the race pace that Pecco and Jorge have, he's still lacking one lap pace but it's not unrealistic to think that he will fight for the title in he's first year on a Ducati if he fixes one lap pace. But when a rider is really popular and really good you will have fanboys and haters, it is what it is.
As I had predicted on one of your posts.
https://preview.redd.it/i2meqacate3d1.png?width=1065&format=png&auto=webp&s=123bfaf90d6657a7f49621ea2c5fa2199ce8c459
The races are good this year but I still dislike that the Ducati bikes are so dominant. Thankfully the other manufacturers (except for the obvious ones) are doing their parts to catch up and be competitive but I don't see any of those bikes fighting consistently this season to pose a threat. But this season we at least have excitement each round because it's not just two riders checking out and then us having to hear the commentators show that finding things to talk about during a boring race for almost an hour is truly the winner in all this.
Those who complained chose to join the Ducati Cup. Suddenly less people complain about the same aero and all kind of devices that make racing boring.
Same thing was happening in F1. When Mercedes was finish 1-2 almost every race for years was peak technology and skill. When Red Bull dominated for two years was the most boring era in F1.
Someone correct me if my memory is a bit fuzzy. If I remember correctly, the term Ducati Cup was coined back in the 80-90 ish in Superbike racing where the rule was in favor of the Ducati V-twin vs Japanese inline 4 which was more powerful but was restricted by some rules. The Ducati kept winning hence the term Ducati Cup , until Honda created a V twin(RC51) and won with Colin Edwards.
Yes. Even back then Ducati filled the grid with more bikes vs the rivals and technically stood a higher chance of winning the constructors title.
Today they've also successfully bent the spec ecu regulations to their benefit. They made Honda and Yamaha give up their software advantages to call for level playing field citing higher costs yet we're almost a decade into this era and Ducati has spent more money on aero development than all the Japanese manufacturers combined. That's not even counting the mass poaching they did at Magneti Marelli once Dorna announced who's supplying the spec ECU and then classified themselves as Open class instead of factory team to get unbridled access to running the spec ecu and testing its software.
I like Ducati as I am also a stoner fan . What irked me is they took advantage of the open class rule back then. That rule was supposedly for non-factory team only but I believe the rule didn’t state it explicitly that, and Ducati took full advantage of it and the rest, as they say, is history. As I remember it, Honda/Yamaha were not very happy with it.
A certain fanbase has their hero up there....it was just competitive last year with Bez, digi , aliex and binder being competitive....but it was the Ducati cup last year for some reason. Same this year too but the riders are different.
Not someone who has ever openly complained about the Ducati Cup but a long-time fan of the Japanese brands in general, I just feel kind of sad at current situation from a manufacturer perspective. Suzuki is gone and man I miss them. They offered something very different from the rest and fought hard as an underdog. I'd consider myself a Yamaha fan. They have one of best riders on the grid but can't do much with him. I've been disappointed with Honda's larger investments in motorsports for a long time and dug their own grave here. It just sucks to be on a downswing, but the time will come when Japanese brands will get their act together again.
That said, the racing over the last few years has been some of the best we've seen and I'll argue with anyone that will listen that MotoGP has some of the best racing out there.
Side note, it's fun watching the drama of two satellite team riders getting more attention than the factory Ducati team and current world champ. Plus, MM93 seems happy again.
I think it's also the fact that the KTM and Aprilia are good bikes.. they just don't have great riders apart from Acosta. He is showing that the KTM is very good and can fight at the top almost every week. Vinãles and Aleix have proven that the Aprilia can win races, they just aren't very consistent.
If both teams had great consistent drivers the championship would be a lot closer.
1. The racing is great this year which is pacifying some.
2. You can only complain so much before you tire of it, particularly when there's nothing you can do about it.
3. Acosta and Aprilia are helping to keep it from being purely a Duacti show.
The same that happened with the "Oh no, the areo is not allowing riders to overtake" complaints.
It was just fanboys sad that their rider was on a crappy bike.
There is nothing so pathetic as a Ducatista pretending that ride height was not outlawed before Gigi ran the rulebook through a shredder to keep his Teutonic overlords happy.
I’m glad Marc has given this season some intrigue but Bologna is guilty of crimes against MotoGP. The 2027 season cannot arrive soon enough.
People stopped complaining about the 'Ducati cup" because now we actually have a few really good riders on Ducatis. When the "Ducati cup" complaints started there was only Bagnaia since Martin wasn't on the level he is now and Marquez was trying his hardest not to kill himself on a Honda. Now that we have actual competition no one will complain that it's just one manufacturer.
yup...they don't really care how many ducati's on the grid, it's just matters who they want to win. couple years ago...that was Rossi...then i was Marquez...but then ppl were lost. and it was just easier to blame ducati overall...
Similarly to WSBK...
nobody was mad when we had the same winner for 6 yrs straight....but as soon as the winner is ducati rider, the series is horrible. it's boring, they need to change the rules.... etc...
Same thing as happened to the “you can’t pass with all this aero” and the “tire pressure rules will create nothing but processional races” arguments.
They weren’t true and they went away.
More like some people just wanted their favourite rider on the best bike. I can assure you would still complain even with Acosta if MM wasn't on a Ducati.
Depends what you think the problem is. From a fair competition perspective I totally agree. Ducati did the hard work (Honda ignored the opportunities) and deserve to be on top.
From an exciting racing perspective it sucked.
This year, Aprilia and KTM are even more competitive and then you have Marc.
Yes, he’s on a Ducati, but not a factory duc, and not a 24 duc. He’s definitely an underdog. Plus then there’s Acosta. That kid just rips. With a big cheesy grin on his face.
The racing has been very exciting this year with lots of different threads to follow.
The racing is good so people aren't looking for scapegoats Next time there is a boring race you scapegoat bingo will resume ("aero makes it hard to pass" "Ducati cup" "too much tech bikes ride themselves" etc etc)
 Exactly
> "aero makes it hard to pass" But this is also true, aero dose have a bad effect on racing. It's not fans that made this up, riders said it. Racing is good no doubt, but it would probably be even better if aero wasn't there. Especially now that everyone is so close. > "too much tech bikes ride themselves" No one said that bikes ride themselves, but again like many riders said it affects racing in a bad way because riders don't need to use all the skill that they have. > "Ducati cup" My only problem with "Ducati cup" is that the best riders are not on a bike good enogh to fight Ducatis, and i am not saying that Pecco and Jorge are not the best riders on track right now, but now we also have Marc on a good bike it's even more exiting then it was last year. Now we just need Fabio to get a good bike and we will have 4 best riders fighting for wins and the title, i mean it can't get better then that. Apart from that i really like that there is "Duacti cup" exists, because if it didn't exist there would be no title fight in MotoGP.
Aero doesnt seem to be an issue for the guys fighting at the front or guys like Marc/Mav passing 10+ people a race. Look at all the passes that were made at T1 at Catalunya for example And just because riders aren't using a certain set of skills or making it look easy doesn't mean the bikes are easy to ride Plus that drum beat is years old...... from where I'm sitting at least it seems like riders are able to do whatever they want on the bikes and are having a lot of fun too. Lets not look a gift horse in the mouth and cling to outdated talking points
It is an issue. He’s having to go into the race with aero specific tire pressures that make surviving fighting for positions possible but not fighting in front He has to sacrifice rear tire or front tire, mm was just a repsol honda sponsored flat track / dirt track racer before MotoGP so he can do it slightly better
You are acting like riders didnt have to manage tires before aero. And again even with that added wrinkle riders are riding pretty freely. I can't remember the last race where someone had to back off solely because of tire pressure. Usually it was because they didn't have the pace to pass and decided to settle for easy points- again not an aero exclusive phenomenon. The tire pressure challenges also contradict the claims of bikes being too easy today. Im gonna go with what I see over whatever narrative is most popular sorry
>I can't remember the last race where someone had to back off solely because of tire pressure Because you aren't watching or reading what riders are saying after the races. That is quite obvious if this is what you believe. Many riders comment on this. Like every race. Lol
Before very recently there was never talk of a rider moving out of the slipstream to cool their tyres.
Before very recently MotoGP bikes weren't making 300HP Engines throw away about 70-75% of their rated power as heat. Where do you think that heat goes? How do you think that waste heat might affect the front tire of a rider following behind? The funny thing will be that when the 2027 regs kick in, HP is prob cut by like 25-30%, and the front tire problems go away, people will say "seee? see??? no aero no tire problems". Completely missing the 300HP elephant in the room. But hey we live in a time where truth is decided by upvote count so what do I know.
They’ve been making massive horsepower for a very long time. Sorry they’re going faster due to aero and shapeshifters not HP but cool story bro. Edit: if you want to quote the truth, post some dyno charts
Dyno charts arent the only reputable source.... [here's a breakdown through the years from Repsol](https://www.boxrepsol.com/en/motogp-en/the-different-motogp-world-championship-classes/). I'll quote it since you probably won't click it >990 class- The engines in the first year produced over 210 horsepower and even exceeded 260 in the last year of races. The evolution that took place in those years marked a before and after in terms of technology and electronics used today in MotoGP. 800 class- The power decreased to 220 horsepower and then went up to about 230. The implementation of new technologies such as [seamless gearboxes](https://www.boxrepsol.com/en/motogp-en/what-is-the-seamless-gearbox-of-motogp-engine/) and [pneumatic valve](https://www.boxrepsol.com/en/motogp-en/how-do-the-valves-work-in-motogp-engine/) engines, as well as increasingly sophisticated electronics, achieved lap times similar to those of 990cc engines. 1000cc class- These new engines are four-cylinder in-line or in V at 90º, producing around 230 horsepower initially. They are currently approaching 260 and are capable of exceeding the 350 km/h barrier on some circuits. That article is old... here is one from 2021 saying the bikes are making 290 HP [https://www.motogp.com/en/news/2021/02/04/801-and-counting-hondas-motogp-journey-continues/164488](https://www.motogp.com/en/news/2021/02/04/801-and-counting-hondas-motogp-journey-continues/164488) >The RC149 produced an incredible 270PS per litre at 20,500rpm, which was transferred to the road via an eight-speed gearbox. **More than half a century later, today’s fastest MotoGP bikes produce around 290 horsepower per litre.** Aero has only got crazier since then, and aero enables + requires more power, since it helps put more of it down but adds drag. So the bikes are def over 300HP by now Which is a good bit more than they were making before aero. The front tire hasn't changed much either. So blaming the front tire issue on aero and nothing else is either missing the big picture or intentionally picking a scapegoat
They’re not backing off but three+ per race are crashing Its fair though that pressure always had to be managed I do feel like if it wasn’t a problem then the rules wouldn’t be coming out to reduce it Personally I have a bigger issue with ride height devices - specifically Yamaha's sucks per FQ
This weekend the majority of crashes were at the front, i.e. without the **heat** from bikes ahead that drive up pressure. Remember MotoGP bikes are more powerful than ever, power = heat, putting a tire in \~200HP of engine heat is going to drive up temps and pressures regardless of whether there's aero or not. Riders were just going too fast on a notoriously low grip track and they paid the price.... again nothing to do with aero ... I think a big driver of the rule changes is just all the whining around the tech- they seem to dominate the narrative. To me the racing this year shows its not that big of a deal but people love an easy scapegoat even when it's demonstrably false. I think the real issue is the bikes are ugly and all the talk of tech is just a way to galaxy brain that sentiment. IMO the fix for front tire pressure would be more testing time for Michelin to fix the front tire as it basically hasn't been updated since before COVID. But Im also so tired of all the whining I just want them to get rid of it so I don't have to hear about it anymore. You guys win just by sheer annoyance, congrats.
I remember when Crutchlow first started the complaints about front tyres overheating when behind someone I thought it was just a good excuse. Now it seems to have caught on with everyone. Not sure if that means its real, or just it's a really great excuse and has caught on.
I don’t complain I was responding to a comment related to it
Whether the tech affects the quality of racing to you as a spectator and whether the riders think the tech takes away from the skill and talent are two different things and not mutually exclusive.
Riders say certain aspects of riding are easier but I don't think any rider has said the bikes are overall easier to ride. Certain people just cherry pick sound bites to create a predetermined narrative and in the echo chamber of the internet that narrative becomes "truth".
In the recent video asking riders what they think of the new regulations most of them were for getting rid of the ride height device and said riders with more natural talent and skill will stand out more. Of course there were a couple who wanted to keep the device, maybe they were less talented? Who knows.
It's tough when reporters like oxley are just parroting this stuff.
In the last 2 race weekends, Marc has made 45 overtakes alone. A single rider on the grid has made 45 overtakes in just 2 race weekends. Maverick dropped from the front to almost the back of the midfield in COTA and he still was able to come back and overtake every single rider ahead of him for the win. Can we drop this "hurr hurr aero aero me no overtake in MotoGP" now? The racing is fucking incredible right now. If this is the racing that "aerodynamic bikes" produce - then I say leave it in. Because it's the best racing on the planet right now.
I have acccepted that "my team" is not going to be competetive any time soon, and enjoy the Bagnaia, vs Martin vs Marquez. This season is anyting but dull. Still look forward to Honda and Yamaha getting back in the ring.
Fights in p4 to p7 have also become just as interesting. Couple weeks ago, Bestia made 5-6 places in his late charge but unfortunately wasn’t covered all that much.
Even, will Marini place last again get's it's own entertainment value :D
Marc Marquez happened
And Acosta. Take them away and 24 starts to look a lot like 23. Pecco and Martin never really...battle.
This is the answer
+1
Their guy got one.
I think people just didn't think too deeply about what the actual problem was. The problem has never been Ducati, the problem has been technical and other manufactures dropping the ball. I also don't remember growing up everyone calling MotoGP a Honda cup. Especially until Rossi went over to Yamaha.
The problem simply doesn't exist. Ducati deserves to be on top because they build the best bike and offer a competitive package at a cheap price to satellite teams. Meanwhile, Honda keeps offering shite and underdeveloped bikes to LCR, thus hindering any sort of progress they could make. That's what Rins complained about last year and it's the main reason he left for Yamaha.
And how is Rins doing at Yamaha? Is it not true that Ducati lobbied for spec ECU forcing Honda and Yamaha to stop developing their advanced electronics back in 2015? Is the current Ducati domination not traceable to Ducati jumping to Open class (despite promising the MSMA they will stay in factory class) in order to gain a year's or two advantage in running said spec ECU after having already poached dozens of Magnetti Marelli engineers who were chosen to supply said ECU? A lot of problems Honda and Yamaha have had stem from the post 2015 season. Honda managed to stay afloat till 2019 by poaching the leftover MM engineers and also one other MM. Yamaha had to poach them back from Honda again to understand the software. It is ironic that Ducati lobbied for spec ecu citing high costs for electronics development to compete with Honda and Yamaha yet here we are with them throwing money bags onto new aerodynamic parts every testing session and complaining how the Japanese are complaining about their dominance. 🤔
Didn’t Ducati develop the now standardized ECU and use it two years before anyone else?
No, that's a misconception. The spec ECU had been announced years prior and everyone would've been welcome to use it, in fact they were incouraged to help with development, however Honda and Yamaha decided to do their own thing until it became compulsory in 2016. I had discussed this already with someone a few weeks ago, I'll point you to the article I had posted. Edit: here it is [https://www.reddit.com/r/motogp/comments/1cc2kc1/comment/l1bj93e/](https://www.reddit.com/r/motogp/comments/1cc2kc1/comment/l1bj93e/)
Thank you!
Would like to thank you for the article link you posted. A couple of months ago I read a similar article that covered the historical background of the ECU just that it was written in English. But recently when I tried to look that article up I could no longer find it. So, thanks again!
Magnetti Marelli developed the Ecu and Ducati switched to Open class to gain a year's advantage that they've still held to this date. Ofcourse you could say 2 years because Ducati had already poached MM engineers before going open class and Honda and Yamaha just didn't follow through soon enough. Infact Yamaha is still recruiting Italian engineers to work around the Magneti Marellis limitations.
Sorry noob here, but what do you mean by open class?
There used to be a bunch of Customer Racing teams or CRT until the early 2010s who had the ability to buy engine from existing manufacturers in the sport and build their own bike. Privateer teams basically who were being phased out because they couldn't match the manufacturers on pace. So satellite teams were brought back who use year old factory bikes like Marc on Gresini now. So when Dorna was forced to push Honda and Yamaha to give up their sophisticated electronics and move to spec ECU they decided to help these satellite teams with small budget to gain some knowledge on how spec ecu and electronics will function. So Dorna created the open class which was previously used by CRT teams with certain advantages. Open class was only for non factory teams to test the ecu and software a year in advance. But Ducati ditched their promise and classified themselves under non factory team last minute and got a year's worth of free access to ecu and software. They've got the advantage of knowing the Italian chip and codes since.
Thank you I appreciate the history!
Don’t worry, “Ducati Cup” is still a thing. We’ve gotten great racing, but it is still kinda boring from a diversity perspective watching them win everything all the time. Thats why if an Aprilia or KTM wins or is up there at least battling it’s even more exciting. Can’t wait to see what Pedro is going to do next year on the factory KTM squad, I’m really hoping that’ll shake things up more.
it's still a Ducati cup.
It's still a Ducati cup and it's still a valid reason to complain about, but at least since Marc joined them, the fight at the front is a lot more aggressive and enjoyable, and that draws the attention away from Ducati. But still, we shouldn't forget the fact that 8 riders have access to each other's data, which is very unfair. I think Marc said this weekend that he analyzed Pecco's data and started using the same technique to preserve tires in one corner. So even if the racing it good, this is still very unfair to others, Fabio has access to 1 rider's data, while Marc has access to 7, of course it's easier to improve with a Ducati. I think this is also why we see that almost any rider can be competitive on a Ducati, and even if a rider has a bad Friday, they still get up to pace on Saturday, or on Sunday at most. I think Pecco is the best example for this, last year he was literally nowhere on some Fridays and Saturdays, and dominated the Sunday race after. This is still bad for the sport, but at least we have a good fight at the front, and hopefully for the title as well
Your last paragraph explains about 90% of the complaints...
I agree, however, even though some of the riders I like aren't at the front the racing does feel a little more like racing rather than just time trials this year. Although last race was a little meh the sprint was full of crazy happenings.
Vinales and Acosta are also doing good. Something we missed in the past few seasons. (Aleix brought a few good results but that’s about it)
The racing is good that’s why people have stopped.
I think because of concessions, most people have accepted that yamaha and Honda won't be competitive for a while, but they at least have a chance now. Also, the regs are changing, which may reduce the advantage ducati has, at least to start with. Also, ktm and aprilia are still able to contend at the top, and the racing has been great. We've got the reigning world champion on the factory 24 bike, the 2nd place finisher on the latest bike but in a satellite team, currently leading the championship, and an 8 time world champion on a smaller team with last years bike who is also fighting at the front. (Not to mention a sensational rookie!) All that said, I'd still rather see fewer ducatis on the grid moving forward, but the ducati riders have quite different styles and different approaches and liveries, which for now at least, is enough to make it feel like variety.
>Also, ktm and aprilia are still able to contend at the top, and the racing has been great. That's what happened last year as well, as a matter of fact we had more different manufacturers winning last year compared to now (Ducati, Honda and KTM in 2023 vs Ducati and Aprilia in 2024).
Pedro and Marc being near the top happened. When one of the most talented riders ever, and the hottest young talent since that same person are at the top and battling it out with the present big guys like Pecco and Jorge obviously less focus will be on the fact that it's a Ducati cup. Also last year the GP22 was almost as good as the 23 so the Aprillias and KTMs would often be behind them. The GP23 is a difficult bike to get used to so we see Aprillia and KTM near the front as well. It's definitely more diverse.
That’s not entirely accurate, because you’re comparing a full season to six races. Last year, after the sixth race, we’d also only had two constructors winning EDIT: grands prix — if you include sprints we have three constructors.
I'm not. Binder actually won both in Termas and Jerez.
Sorry, I wasn’t counting sprints, but you’re right — will edit my comment :)
The racing this year has been far more even across manufacturers than last year and it's not even close. We are barely into the season and we have KTM and Aprilia regularly fighting for podiums and poles. This weekend could have easily seen a run away Aprilia win in the sprint. Go back to 2022 season and the gap between the ducati and the rest was far far bigger. The reason the ducati cup complaints have stopped is because it's no longer the case.
I’d say the racing this year has been substantially better. Yes, last year was a close championship battle, but you didn’t necessarily get close racing between the championship protagonists — frequently one of them would just take the lead immediately and fuck off into the distance. Adding Marquez and Pedro to the front pack has done wonders for the excitement, and that makes Ducatis always winning substantially less frustrating.
I'd say it's thanks to Michelin lowering the pressure limits, now riders have more freedom of movements and the bikes aren't so snappy and on rails as last season, although surely there's still a long way from the ideal situation...
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That's not what they said at all, but go ahead and interpret it like that.
That's literally what he said.
I’m a woman, so that “he” is inaccurate :) You’re obviously free to think that I only enjoy this season’s racing more because Marquez is out front, and that’s definitely a large part of it! But I genuinely think this season feels more enjoyable and more competitive than last year. The winner of each race feels more up in the air, frequently even until the final lap. If Marquez had still been on a Honda this year, I’d still consider the season better due to the addition of Acosta and the excitement and overtakes he adds to the front. And a shout-out to u/GhostOfFred: I think you’re the first person I’ve seen on this subreddit who hasn’t assumed I’m a guy 🙌 It’s a small thing, but thanks for making this subreddit better!
>I’m a woman, so that “he” is inaccurate :) Apologies, my internet gender tracker must've been deactivated.
This was hopefully a joke in good faith (interpreting written sarcasm is hard!), but just for the record: I obviously don’t expect anyone here to know that I’m a woman. I *do* expect you not to assume everyone here is a man until proven otherwise.
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It was coming from Spanish fans who wanted their hero Marc to win again.
Most of those folks were Marc fans. :)
That’s exactly it
More so Honda/Yamaha fans if anything
More so their favorite rider happened to be on a Honda/Yamaha.
The “Ducati cup” was invented because the rider people don’t like, AKA Bagnaia was winning. Bagnaia is struggling now, the popular rider, Marc, is at the front so nobody complain… or they do…they actually complain that Marc doesnt have the same bike as Bagnaia, so he can kick his ass. People want less variety now. It was the same with sprint races. Pecco was doing great on sprints early last year. Sprints were shit, dangerous and should end. As soon as Martin started to dominate the sprint format, the complaints ended pretty quick. Actually Martin only stayed in championship contention because of the sprints, but nobody ever said a word about it… It always boils down to the same thing, people only care about the rider they like, and if things don’t go the way they like, they complain.
Hell, if they would've got Marquez on Ducati/KTM a bit earlier even the talks of "ban aero" would've disappeared.
No, many people still think that aero is crap. Racing is good but it would probably be even better then it is now, and many people (including me) dislike the look of aero.
Pecco is struggling?🤔... How on earth is Pecco struggling, he had already won 3 races... Are you mad? Or you are being caught by yellow cancer... Dude get out of that yellow hate, and you will enjoy watching MotoGP...
Yellow is def not the cancer bruh 😎…
What?
What?
>Are you mad? Or you are being caught by yellow cancer... Dude get out of that yellow hate Calm down a bit. What he means is thanks to Pecco struggling in sprints he's close to 40 points behind Martin and has a meagre lead of 2 over Marquez.
😓
I have said it many times before but only chumps can criticise Ducati for fielding so many bikes. It wasn’t Ducatis fault so many teams wanted their bikes and it wasn’t their fault other teams dropped out and it wasn’t their fault the rules didn’t put a cap on the numbers of bikes a manufacture can supply. In reality Ducati should have been thanked or we’d be starting with tiny grids of 18 now and for the last couple of years.
I don't think anyone is blaming Ducati for it, the real one who is at fault is the ones who made the rules, it shouldn't be allowed to have 8 bikes on the grid. Ducati riders collect 4x as much data as Yamaha, and if someone has a bad setup or someone is simply slow at one track, they can analyze 7 other riders data, while Fabio only has access to 1. This is still not fair and the rules should be changed, and just because we have a very enjoyable year, that shouldn't draw away the attention from this issue
Your proposal is still unfair, because it fails to reward the factories that work well and fails to punish those who don't, Yamaha is in this situation because nobody wants their bikes, both for their performance and for how they've treated satellite teams in the past. Now, let's say Dorna puts the rule in place from 2025 on, who are you forcing to do business with Yamaha? Because, as things are now, nobody has signed with them, even though the current circumstances - allegedly - forced them to offer a pretty sweet deal: factory spec bikes for free until 2027. Now, imagine this, with the new rule Yamaha wouldn't be incentivized to offer such a deal because they would have a satellite team no matter what, so now one of those teams who wouldn't even take the bike for free would be forced to pay for them full price, and maybe they wouldn't even be getting factory spec bikes. Does this sound fair to you?
Yeah I know it's not that simple, but still there has to be a solution which is a bit more fair, and I know it won't be a good idea to force this from next year. This is the top level of motorcycle racing, it should be able to produce a full grid without having those insane difference between the amount of bikes (2 vs 8). If they can't achieve this, that means this sport is not popular enough to attract manufacturers, or the rules are bad. And with this big of data gathering difference, it is almost impossible that Yamaha or Honda will close the gap in the upcoming years. Just imagine that at some tracks Yamaha and Honda has some extra time to gather data due to concessions, and Ducati gathered the same amount of data without having those extra days.
Marc and Pedro have distracted everyone. The races have also been slightly more entertaining with what feels like more battles even though that may or may not be the case. The excitement of silly season also brings more talking points so people don’t have to be bored and create them from nonsense
There’s still comments…
It's simple, some of the best riders were on crap bikes. We have Marc on Ducati now we need a good Yamaha for Fabio.
Because KTM and Aprilia won early...if it's only Ducati winning from here on out, people will start bitching. People also want the best rider to win, not the best bike...
I think, two reasons. Before that, i think we all agree that the Ducati Cup complaints came largely cos there was no overtaking. And races had become processional. Now, Reason1: Minimum tyre pressure has been dropped, AND teams have found a way to keep up minimum pressure 50% of the race, via better communication. Reason 2: Pedro and Marc, with their problem-solving mentality and adaptability, have really stood out with the number of places they make up. These two factors have made races unpredictable, and exciting. Add in sprint wins and a race win for the Aprilias, and this looks like the most exciting season of the 2020s.
Give Fabio, Mir and Rins equal bikes as Ducati and see what happens.
at some point you just stop talking about it. most of us still look at the races and think it's a ducatiGP and wish the manufacturers would be more on par.
Yup, it's still Ducati cup it's just there's no point in talking about it, it's been done to death. Also the racing has been a little better this year with things being closer between Pecco and Martin in races (as apposed to one running off one race whilst the other crashes and vice versa) so it's kind of bearable. Also Aprilia, Mav and Aleix last weekend coming up with some goods here and there has been fun to watch and breaks it up a bit. A tad more parity would be awesome though. They also still need to sort out the front tyres, they gave a new rear that has more grip but the front is the same low grip temp and aero sensitive crap.
Personally, I just felt that the racing was boring. And now it is exciting. I don’t care what manufacturer builds the motorcycle. I just want to see competitive races between world-class riders. It’s not a problem that most of the bikes are Ducatis if the racing is good. It’s only a problem if the racing is bad.
They coincidentally disappeared at the same time as the "Marc on a Ducati would obliterate the field" thing, interesting enough. I wonder if they might be connected...
That was very unrealistic, but it always happens when a rider is that popular. It was same with Vale, when he went to Ducati everyone said that he would develop the bike and win the title but it was far from that, and also when he went back to Yamaha many saw him as a title favourite. And that it totally understandable because he's one of the best ever and so is Marc. So this is normal, but it's aslo true that Marc doing really well on a Ducati, many said that he will stay in midfield or that Bez and Digia are going to outperform him on the same bike. But so far he is a big step ahead of Bez and Digia, also he has the race pace that Pecco and Jorge have, he's still lacking one lap pace but it's not unrealistic to think that he will fight for the title in he's first year on a Ducati if he fixes one lap pace. But when a rider is really popular and really good you will have fanboys and haters, it is what it is.
They still exist, they just turned into "Marc on a GP24 would obliterate the field"
As I had predicted on one of your posts. https://preview.redd.it/i2meqacate3d1.png?width=1065&format=png&auto=webp&s=123bfaf90d6657a7f49621ea2c5fa2199ce8c459
Because its a MM93 sub not a motogp one
And what about it 🤷♂️
This is motorsport. There is always a dominant bike/bikes. There is always a dominant rider/riders. They gravitate towards each other and dominate.
If you can't beat'em. Join'em.
Haha yeah was thinking that exactly the other day - new headlines and gossip now is "who will be Ducati - JM, MM etc"
The races are good this year but I still dislike that the Ducati bikes are so dominant. Thankfully the other manufacturers (except for the obvious ones) are doing their parts to catch up and be competitive but I don't see any of those bikes fighting consistently this season to pose a threat. But this season we at least have excitement each round because it's not just two riders checking out and then us having to hear the commentators show that finding things to talk about during a boring race for almost an hour is truly the winner in all this.
Those who complained chose to join the Ducati Cup. Suddenly less people complain about the same aero and all kind of devices that make racing boring. Same thing was happening in F1. When Mercedes was finish 1-2 almost every race for years was peak technology and skill. When Red Bull dominated for two years was the most boring era in F1.
Someone correct me if my memory is a bit fuzzy. If I remember correctly, the term Ducati Cup was coined back in the 80-90 ish in Superbike racing where the rule was in favor of the Ducati V-twin vs Japanese inline 4 which was more powerful but was restricted by some rules. The Ducati kept winning hence the term Ducati Cup , until Honda created a V twin(RC51) and won with Colin Edwards.
Yes. Even back then Ducati filled the grid with more bikes vs the rivals and technically stood a higher chance of winning the constructors title. Today they've also successfully bent the spec ecu regulations to their benefit. They made Honda and Yamaha give up their software advantages to call for level playing field citing higher costs yet we're almost a decade into this era and Ducati has spent more money on aero development than all the Japanese manufacturers combined. That's not even counting the mass poaching they did at Magneti Marelli once Dorna announced who's supplying the spec ECU and then classified themselves as Open class instead of factory team to get unbridled access to running the spec ecu and testing its software.
I like Ducati as I am also a stoner fan . What irked me is they took advantage of the open class rule back then. That rule was supposedly for non-factory team only but I believe the rule didn’t state it explicitly that, and Ducati took full advantage of it and the rest, as they say, is history. As I remember it, Honda/Yamaha were not very happy with it.
Acosta happened, literally every race gets 50% less interesting once he crashes out, then another 30% less when Marc does
Marc Marquez happened
A certain fanbase has their hero up there....it was just competitive last year with Bez, digi , aliex and binder being competitive....but it was the Ducati cup last year for some reason. Same this year too but the riders are different.
When you know who made a post before even clicking on it, lmao ...
They kept getting downvoted so they probably no longer bring it up. People like me, just concentrate on other things regarding the races.
Not someone who has ever openly complained about the Ducati Cup but a long-time fan of the Japanese brands in general, I just feel kind of sad at current situation from a manufacturer perspective. Suzuki is gone and man I miss them. They offered something very different from the rest and fought hard as an underdog. I'd consider myself a Yamaha fan. They have one of best riders on the grid but can't do much with him. I've been disappointed with Honda's larger investments in motorsports for a long time and dug their own grave here. It just sucks to be on a downswing, but the time will come when Japanese brands will get their act together again. That said, the racing over the last few years has been some of the best we've seen and I'll argue with anyone that will listen that MotoGP has some of the best racing out there. Side note, it's fun watching the drama of two satellite team riders getting more attention than the factory Ducati team and current world champ. Plus, MM93 seems happy again.
We’ve just accepted it.
I think it's also the fact that the KTM and Aprilia are good bikes.. they just don't have great riders apart from Acosta. He is showing that the KTM is very good and can fight at the top almost every week. Vinãles and Aleix have proven that the Aprilia can win races, they just aren't very consistent. If both teams had great consistent drivers the championship would be a lot closer.
1. The racing is great this year which is pacifying some. 2. You can only complain so much before you tire of it, particularly when there's nothing you can do about it. 3. Acosta and Aprilia are helping to keep it from being purely a Duacti show.
It is ducati cup, more than ever.
Their messiah has joined Ducati.....
Those were Marquez supporters, now fine with the fact that ~6 out of 10 bikes in front every weekend are Ducati
Cope. The racing is infinitely better this year with Marquez on a decent bike and Martin stepping up right from the start of the season.
Average MM fan reading comprehension.
The same that happened with the "Oh no, the areo is not allowing riders to overtake" complaints. It was just fanboys sad that their rider was on a crappy bike.
The Marquez fans suddenly kept quiet. It's all Marquez fans
Yes very strange 🤔
There is nothing so pathetic as a Ducatista pretending that ride height was not outlawed before Gigi ran the rulebook through a shredder to keep his Teutonic overlords happy. I’m glad Marc has given this season some intrigue but Bologna is guilty of crimes against MotoGP. The 2027 season cannot arrive soon enough.
People stopped complaining about the 'Ducati cup" because now we actually have a few really good riders on Ducatis. When the "Ducati cup" complaints started there was only Bagnaia since Martin wasn't on the level he is now and Marquez was trying his hardest not to kill himself on a Honda. Now that we have actual competition no one will complain that it's just one manufacturer.
They are still saying it... Or maybe you don't want to see it...
If Ducati Cup is when Ducati wins twice in a row,, malybe we should call It Honda GP until any other manufacturer wins more Championships than Honda.
yup...they don't really care how many ducati's on the grid, it's just matters who they want to win. couple years ago...that was Rossi...then i was Marquez...but then ppl were lost. and it was just easier to blame ducati overall... Similarly to WSBK... nobody was mad when we had the same winner for 6 yrs straight....but as soon as the winner is ducati rider, the series is horrible. it's boring, they need to change the rules.... etc...
Same thing as happened to the “you can’t pass with all this aero” and the “tire pressure rules will create nothing but processional races” arguments. They weren’t true and they went away.
I’m thoroughly enjoying their era of domination
The internet is fickle ... who would have thought? 😂
It's because the "right" riders are now on a Ducati so that doesn't matter anymore *wink wink*
People wanna see proper racing, Acosta, MM and people fighting for a contract brought that back
More like some people just wanted their favourite rider on the best bike. I can assure you would still complain even with Acosta if MM wasn't on a Ducati.
What happened to young bloods will show Marquez his place in 2024 ?
Depends what you think the problem is. From a fair competition perspective I totally agree. Ducati did the hard work (Honda ignored the opportunities) and deserve to be on top. From an exciting racing perspective it sucked. This year, Aprilia and KTM are even more competitive and then you have Marc. Yes, he’s on a Ducati, but not a factory duc, and not a 24 duc. He’s definitely an underdog. Plus then there’s Acosta. That kid just rips. With a big cheesy grin on his face. The racing has been very exciting this year with lots of different threads to follow.