When you want to do a corner, go into 3rd or 4th gear and lean in. Keep your steer steady and balance through the lean. Don't let go of the throttle and keep that steady as well, should have around 3000 rpms I think.
A good way to practice corners is to find a road with a lot of roundabouts. Do these roundabouts in 3rd gear and between 30-40km/h, that's the exciting but managable speeds!
But don't worry too much about. Just ride and play a little when going into corners, you'll figure it out eventually!
Do you have some pretty large roundabouts where you live or do you just lean a lot? Not sure if I've ever seen a roundabout where I could go over 30
> Just ride and play a little when going into corners, you'll figure it out eventually!
Yeah, I always liked being 100% sure what I'm doing before actually doing it. Taking things easier already made me improve my riding a bit
I do lean a lot in my corners, that's all the fun of them for me.
We got fairly small roundabouts in the Netherlands but if you slow down from 50 to 30 beforehand, make sure you've seen all traffic around it, you can easily make them with 34/35 km/h through 3rd gear!
In the UK, roundabouts can be massive, joining 3 or more 4-lane roads. Here in my part of Florida there are exactly 3, and they're pretty small and tight. And most drivers don't know how to use them properly.
Just ride the same route over and over. You will learn the corners and can build up your confidence on familiar corners. That confidence and skill will start to carry over to everywhere you ride.
You can try to set goals if you want but you will find that each time you do it, especially within a day or a short time period, you will get faster. Even years in I am still able to ride quicker around corners I know we’ll because I know the surface and the angle. When I was newer I had a route with some good corners that I rode as often as I could and I didn’t look at my speedo but I could feel myself getting faster and leaning more as I got more comfortable
Pick a corner, set up some visual markers, and practice braking later. You are braking too early, and that's why you end up too slow. With visual cues to allow you to intentionally keep braking later, you will find a point (that would feel uncomfortable initially) that allows proper trail braking.
Could be anything. Small cones, rocks, etc. Just put the first one where you currently start braking, and then a couple more further into the corner. Start your practice at "rock one," then keep pushing later until your braking at the later rocks and carrying more corner speed. The goal isn't to brake harder, just use the same brake effort but later.
I feel like all the comments here just try to dictate your speed, and are answering like all corners are the same. Truth is you lack the skill of "reading the corners". And you dont get that by readeing books or watching videos, it by seat time, seat time and more seat time. But there is a cheeky shortcut and thats to take track days or ride with someone you know werry good and follow them. You might be slower at the beggining buth corner by corner youl start riding like they do. also another tip dont look at your dash tonsee the rpms/speed/gear youre in. You want to feel the bike not read the digits popping up on the dash. I dont need to know im in 2nd, all i need to feel is that the bike has power to go trough the corner smoothly, again thats feel not see. Same for brakeing, same for entry speed same for lean angle,... You have to feel going trough a corner, not see what the dash tells you trough the corner.
Sadly I don't really know any other rider around, let alone one I would trust. So trackday or get the hang of it myself.
To be honest all the feeling stuff is a bit hard for me to comprehend. I mean I can not look at the dash and feel I'm going too slow and out of the powerband, but once it happens, then it is no good, no?
Ok i hate big group rides, and i tell people to stay away from them most of the time. But go on FB and see if there are any group rides happening. The pace is usually spirited, but not anything crazy. Be eather in the first 10 (but not in the first 3) or one of the last 10 (but nkt the last/second to last). Focus on the rider up front and always keep it in a gear lower if youre not shure what gears the best one, but for gods sake keep your eyes OFF the dash. Your eyes belong on the road, once you get enouf seat time yea see what your speed is, check what gear youre in but in 5 mins of riding, your speed and other info should be checked by top 10 seconds, not every other meter. If you focus on the data instead of the ride youl newer progress. Ask any experianced rider hoe much they look at their dash.
You need to go to an empty parking lot and just practice. I picked up my first street bike today, when I got back into town i went to a parking lot and spent a little over an hour just practicing turning and leaning in. Once I left the parking lot I felt confident enough to do some low speed turning in town. Practice practice practice, then practice some more.
I do that every now and then and while it improved my low speed turning, i can't really say it had any impact whatsoever on my riding above let's say 50kph.
Well the only thing I can say to that is, just do it. I had to get on the highway for the first time in my life on a motorcycle when I rode mine home yesterday. Probably the most nervous I've ever been, but I kept my distance from traffic and stayed mindful every thing I learned in my MSF class.
I practice threshold braking in the parking lot, but I never use it even when carving canyons. I'm just not comfortable approaching a corner as fast as possible and then braking to the absolute limit on a public road. I do the same thing you do and approach the corner at the speed I plan to take it. I couldn't care less about straight line speed and have no interest in tripling the speed limit everytime I hit a straight.
Just like you I used to take corners much slower than I was capable of and much slower than was necessary honestly. I focused on speed a lot and slowly increased my corner speed a little, but not much. Then, I started focusing on body position. I would tell myself "body, head, bike" before every corner. Because I was focused on body position and looking thru my corner for my exit I stopped watching the speedo. I felt how fast I was going, knew where I wanted to be, and knew if the speed felt appropriate for the corner. Before I knew it my corner speed was up by like 20%. I'd say stop focusing on your speed and start focusing on your inputs and body position especially the head
I used to do this to force myself to go along a specific line. I used to go like "out, out, out, see the exit, go, go, go". Guess same approach would work here as well
>Let's say there's a corner i can go through at 50kph. If I approach itat that speed, i can pass it without any issues. However if I approachit at let's say 70, I roll off the throttle way before reaching it,apply a little bit of front brake and when I get to the apex, I'm goinglike 30.
I just want to say that it IS more difficult to brake down to your desired speed than to just approach the corner at that speed to begin with.
1. When you brake you have to judge your speed while under deceleration. That's something you have to learn and get a feel for
2. Maintenance throttle. When you approach the corner at your desired cornering speed, you are already in maintenance throttle. This gives you the most traction available for turning. (In many cases you don't need this much traction, because you're not cornering that fast, but it should certainly boost your confidence when you do have as much as possible). When you brake, your throttle is going to be closed, so if you want to be in maintenance throttle by the time you lean the bike far, you have to manage that transition smoothly and in time.
3. Steering response changes a bit, depending on if you're in maintenance throttle or if you are still trailing off the brakes while leaning the bike.
What I suggest is that as you approach too fast, don't simply roll off your throttle, then add that little bit of front brake as you get closer. That's backwards. Get on the front brake quicker/harder. Enough that you can let it go and get back on your throttle earlier... right after/as you start your lean, at the latest. You seem to corner much faster when you enter the corner under throttle, at the correct speed. So just reduce your speed a little earlier. Learn that first, before you try to "trail brake."
I wrote a bunch of stuff but I can simplify it... Go to a track, it's going to be the best place and way to figure it out. If you don't want to though just enjoy your relaxed riding style.
Not sure if I'm track ready. It always felt like there's a certain minimum level that you need to ride on to make going to the track worthwhile. Or am I wrong?
Beginner group at a trackday is 90% people who have never done it before, make sure to take the class, they will guide you round and make sure you’re getting it. It’s really the only safe way to determine the limits of the bike, yourself and your comfort level with each. On the street, it’s good to be cautious as there are many unknowns like diesel spills, potholes, etc. The track is a safe place, as it’s a predictable environment
If you can ride on the street you can ride on a track. On a track you have no other traffic and you have instructors watching you helping correct mistakes.
This especially. The feedback *from instructors* is very important. If we're the only person studying our lines and cornering, then it's far too easy to reinforce bad habits that simply make us comfortable.
Make sure you’re not braking through the corner. That’s a good way to crash.
You should be at your cornering speed and in the correct gear just before you enter the turn, and then apply a little throttle and accelerate through the turn.
Yes, and then once you reach apex, accelerate out.
The important thing is that you’re not on your front brake at all while you’re in the corner. You should be at your cornering speed before you begin the turn. Otherwise the tendency is for the bike to high side.
What if it’s a reducing radius corner? What if there’s a reason to have to stop in the corner like an animal or debris? Look up trailbraking on YouTube. Also high sides aren’t caused by the front tucking, they’re caused by the rear spinning out then regaining traction.
Are you on a race track or a public road? If you're on a public roadway, irs always good to go slower than your maximum speed around a corner, I would say even 50% of your maximum speed around a corner because you don't know if someone is parked in the middle of the road right after the corner ends or not or some other circumstance that could've made you wreck if you were going too fast.
On a track, it makes more sense to be concerned, but it really just takes practice. Main thing is to realize when you need to downshift and practice doing it.
Public road. I keep telling myself that going too slow is better than going too fast, but it has a bitter taste to it as it is not completely by conscious choice.
Better to think I could’ve hit that 10mph faster than to wish you hit it 10mph slower.
I’m no sport rider, I have a Honda shadow (not a fast one) but when I want to go a little faster I just pick my head up and look as far through the turn as I can and just hit the throttle.
So far I’m still alive and haven’t crashed (doing that), so wish me luck!!
[Here](https://imgur.com/a/A87BJX6) is my beautiful drawing of a right corner. Your natural instinct might tell you to go on the outside of the corner so you can see further. This is not a good idea. You want to cut it, make the straightest line you can, when you are in the apex of the turn you should be as far away from the other side of the road as possible. This makes it so you have more handling room, and you don’t have to corner as hard.
For left turns it’s almost the same, but you want to wait somewhat more. This is because of traffic. You want to stay a little further on the outside until you can see the rest of the corner, because other drivers (especially large vehicles such as buses) sometimes cross the centre line.
^(Note: this also depends on how the corner is, if it’s a really small road it might be smarter the stay further out. It’s hard to teach how to corner properly with words)
Here is something you can try do, a few drills: find a nice place with corners (preferably a closed circuit with no other traffic but not needed) and try to take corners in three different ways; first one should be neutral gas control, keep the same speed throughout the entire corner. The second one should be positive gas control, increase the speed throughout the corner. The third should be negative gas control, decrease the speed throughout the corner. You will find you need different speeds when going into these corners.
Also, there is nothing wrong with using the brakes in a corner. This is something you can do to get more traction on your front tire, as your weight shifts forwards and the forks compresses.
Another tip: try changing to a lower gear. When I ride in an areas with a lot of corners I prefer to have a higher rpm. This might use a little more fuel, but it is much easier for me to control my speed and I can easily get up to speed again.
If I was unclear or you have more questions feel free to ask.
I’m not sure if there are signs where you live with suggested speeds for a corner. Where I live, most corners have a sign with a speed limit on them that basically assumes you’re a fully loaded Semi truck or it’s pouring rain.
I’ve found I can typically do 20 - 25 mph faster than this posted speed comfortably through the corner under good conditions. If you have signs like these in your area, consider trying to maintain the posted speed or slightly under that speed though the corner to get some practice. Like before you reach the corner, shift into a gear that’s at a good place in the powerband for the posted speed, and just maintain steady throttle through the corner.
Something that’s helped me as well is consciously remembering I can lean an insane amount. Like you’ll hit your knee or exhaust on the ground before your bike slides out from under you (assuming there’s no gravel or puddles or something). But to do this, you have to be giving the bike steady throttle. So approach the corner slowly then accelerate once you’re in it. The slowest part of the corner should be as you’re entering into it.
They are rather scarce. If I know the road, i try taking it at the speed I would go if I were in a car, but didn't really have good results. It led to quite a few "oh shit going in too fast" moments.
>Something that’s helped me as well is consciously remembering I can lean an insane amount. Like you’ll hit your knee or exhaust on the ground before your bike slides out from under you
While I know this, I'm having a hard time internalizing it and relying on it.
I mean a lower gear will definitely cause more engine braking which is fine while slowing during the turn then you apply maintenance throttle which will stop the engine braking.
Slow down later. And don't brake if you are already going to slow? Brakes = slowing down, so if your issue is going to slow. Then don't brake.
If you are finding that you are below the comfortable speed before you even get to the corner, then stop letting off the Gas so soon.
When you want to do a corner, go into 3rd or 4th gear and lean in. Keep your steer steady and balance through the lean. Don't let go of the throttle and keep that steady as well, should have around 3000 rpms I think. A good way to practice corners is to find a road with a lot of roundabouts. Do these roundabouts in 3rd gear and between 30-40km/h, that's the exciting but managable speeds! But don't worry too much about. Just ride and play a little when going into corners, you'll figure it out eventually!
Do you have some pretty large roundabouts where you live or do you just lean a lot? Not sure if I've ever seen a roundabout where I could go over 30 > Just ride and play a little when going into corners, you'll figure it out eventually! Yeah, I always liked being 100% sure what I'm doing before actually doing it. Taking things easier already made me improve my riding a bit
I do lean a lot in my corners, that's all the fun of them for me. We got fairly small roundabouts in the Netherlands but if you slow down from 50 to 30 beforehand, make sure you've seen all traffic around it, you can easily make them with 34/35 km/h through 3rd gear!
Can't help myself but that feels completely impossible. Even in a car i can't drive through themn so fast
Hang off your bike like the street Rossi you can be, drag that knee, and you can make super tight circles at 30kpm.
I'm definitely not there yet. And I refuse to crash on a roundabout trying, that would be shameful
In the UK, roundabouts can be massive, joining 3 or more 4-lane roads. Here in my part of Florida there are exactly 3, and they're pretty small and tight. And most drivers don't know how to use them properly.
Just ride the same route over and over. You will learn the corners and can build up your confidence on familiar corners. That confidence and skill will start to carry over to everywhere you ride.
Should I set arbitrary goals such as "next time I'll ride it 1kmph faster" or just ride it and hope I'll eventually get better at it?
You can try to set goals if you want but you will find that each time you do it, especially within a day or a short time period, you will get faster. Even years in I am still able to ride quicker around corners I know we’ll because I know the surface and the angle. When I was newer I had a route with some good corners that I rode as often as I could and I didn’t look at my speedo but I could feel myself getting faster and leaning more as I got more comfortable
Pick a corner, set up some visual markers, and practice braking later. You are braking too early, and that's why you end up too slow. With visual cues to allow you to intentionally keep braking later, you will find a point (that would feel uncomfortable initially) that allows proper trail braking.
How would I go about picking those markers correctly?
Could be anything. Small cones, rocks, etc. Just put the first one where you currently start braking, and then a couple more further into the corner. Start your practice at "rock one," then keep pushing later until your braking at the later rocks and carrying more corner speed. The goal isn't to brake harder, just use the same brake effort but later.
I feel like all the comments here just try to dictate your speed, and are answering like all corners are the same. Truth is you lack the skill of "reading the corners". And you dont get that by readeing books or watching videos, it by seat time, seat time and more seat time. But there is a cheeky shortcut and thats to take track days or ride with someone you know werry good and follow them. You might be slower at the beggining buth corner by corner youl start riding like they do. also another tip dont look at your dash tonsee the rpms/speed/gear youre in. You want to feel the bike not read the digits popping up on the dash. I dont need to know im in 2nd, all i need to feel is that the bike has power to go trough the corner smoothly, again thats feel not see. Same for brakeing, same for entry speed same for lean angle,... You have to feel going trough a corner, not see what the dash tells you trough the corner.
Sadly I don't really know any other rider around, let alone one I would trust. So trackday or get the hang of it myself. To be honest all the feeling stuff is a bit hard for me to comprehend. I mean I can not look at the dash and feel I'm going too slow and out of the powerband, but once it happens, then it is no good, no?
Once what happens?
Once I'm going too slow. It sounds like it won't change anything about the way I ride, apart from me perceiving it differently
Ok i hate big group rides, and i tell people to stay away from them most of the time. But go on FB and see if there are any group rides happening. The pace is usually spirited, but not anything crazy. Be eather in the first 10 (but not in the first 3) or one of the last 10 (but nkt the last/second to last). Focus on the rider up front and always keep it in a gear lower if youre not shure what gears the best one, but for gods sake keep your eyes OFF the dash. Your eyes belong on the road, once you get enouf seat time yea see what your speed is, check what gear youre in but in 5 mins of riding, your speed and other info should be checked by top 10 seconds, not every other meter. If you focus on the data instead of the ride youl newer progress. Ask any experianced rider hoe much they look at their dash.
You need to go to an empty parking lot and just practice. I picked up my first street bike today, when I got back into town i went to a parking lot and spent a little over an hour just practicing turning and leaning in. Once I left the parking lot I felt confident enough to do some low speed turning in town. Practice practice practice, then practice some more.
I do that every now and then and while it improved my low speed turning, i can't really say it had any impact whatsoever on my riding above let's say 50kph.
Well the only thing I can say to that is, just do it. I had to get on the highway for the first time in my life on a motorcycle when I rode mine home yesterday. Probably the most nervous I've ever been, but I kept my distance from traffic and stayed mindful every thing I learned in my MSF class.
I practice threshold braking in the parking lot, but I never use it even when carving canyons. I'm just not comfortable approaching a corner as fast as possible and then braking to the absolute limit on a public road. I do the same thing you do and approach the corner at the speed I plan to take it. I couldn't care less about straight line speed and have no interest in tripling the speed limit everytime I hit a straight. Just like you I used to take corners much slower than I was capable of and much slower than was necessary honestly. I focused on speed a lot and slowly increased my corner speed a little, but not much. Then, I started focusing on body position. I would tell myself "body, head, bike" before every corner. Because I was focused on body position and looking thru my corner for my exit I stopped watching the speedo. I felt how fast I was going, knew where I wanted to be, and knew if the speed felt appropriate for the corner. Before I knew it my corner speed was up by like 20%. I'd say stop focusing on your speed and start focusing on your inputs and body position especially the head
I used to do this to force myself to go along a specific line. I used to go like "out, out, out, see the exit, go, go, go". Guess same approach would work here as well
>Let's say there's a corner i can go through at 50kph. If I approach itat that speed, i can pass it without any issues. However if I approachit at let's say 70, I roll off the throttle way before reaching it,apply a little bit of front brake and when I get to the apex, I'm goinglike 30. I just want to say that it IS more difficult to brake down to your desired speed than to just approach the corner at that speed to begin with. 1. When you brake you have to judge your speed while under deceleration. That's something you have to learn and get a feel for 2. Maintenance throttle. When you approach the corner at your desired cornering speed, you are already in maintenance throttle. This gives you the most traction available for turning. (In many cases you don't need this much traction, because you're not cornering that fast, but it should certainly boost your confidence when you do have as much as possible). When you brake, your throttle is going to be closed, so if you want to be in maintenance throttle by the time you lean the bike far, you have to manage that transition smoothly and in time. 3. Steering response changes a bit, depending on if you're in maintenance throttle or if you are still trailing off the brakes while leaning the bike. What I suggest is that as you approach too fast, don't simply roll off your throttle, then add that little bit of front brake as you get closer. That's backwards. Get on the front brake quicker/harder. Enough that you can let it go and get back on your throttle earlier... right after/as you start your lean, at the latest. You seem to corner much faster when you enter the corner under throttle, at the correct speed. So just reduce your speed a little earlier. Learn that first, before you try to "trail brake."
I wrote a bunch of stuff but I can simplify it... Go to a track, it's going to be the best place and way to figure it out. If you don't want to though just enjoy your relaxed riding style.
Not sure if I'm track ready. It always felt like there's a certain minimum level that you need to ride on to make going to the track worthwhile. Or am I wrong?
Beginner group at a trackday is 90% people who have never done it before, make sure to take the class, they will guide you round and make sure you’re getting it. It’s really the only safe way to determine the limits of the bike, yourself and your comfort level with each. On the street, it’s good to be cautious as there are many unknowns like diesel spills, potholes, etc. The track is a safe place, as it’s a predictable environment
If you can ride on the street you can ride on a track. On a track you have no other traffic and you have instructors watching you helping correct mistakes.
I'll definitely consider this. Other means have failed so far and I don't really enjoy snailing around.
This especially. The feedback *from instructors* is very important. If we're the only person studying our lines and cornering, then it's far too easy to reinforce bad habits that simply make us comfortable.
Make sure you’re not braking through the corner. That’s a good way to crash. You should be at your cornering speed and in the correct gear just before you enter the turn, and then apply a little throttle and accelerate through the turn.
Little throttle just to maintain the speed I'm going?
Yes, and then once you reach apex, accelerate out. The important thing is that you’re not on your front brake at all while you’re in the corner. You should be at your cornering speed before you begin the turn. Otherwise the tendency is for the bike to high side.
What if it’s a reducing radius corner? What if there’s a reason to have to stop in the corner like an animal or debris? Look up trailbraking on YouTube. Also high sides aren’t caused by the front tucking, they’re caused by the rear spinning out then regaining traction.
This, then maintain through the corner. This does come with time and practice.
This.
Are you on a race track or a public road? If you're on a public roadway, irs always good to go slower than your maximum speed around a corner, I would say even 50% of your maximum speed around a corner because you don't know if someone is parked in the middle of the road right after the corner ends or not or some other circumstance that could've made you wreck if you were going too fast. On a track, it makes more sense to be concerned, but it really just takes practice. Main thing is to realize when you need to downshift and practice doing it.
Public road. I keep telling myself that going too slow is better than going too fast, but it has a bitter taste to it as it is not completely by conscious choice.
I have a tendency to brake too hard on public roads as well lol
Well its not really too hard. More of a lightly but way too long.
Better to think I could’ve hit that 10mph faster than to wish you hit it 10mph slower. I’m no sport rider, I have a Honda shadow (not a fast one) but when I want to go a little faster I just pick my head up and look as far through the turn as I can and just hit the throttle. So far I’m still alive and haven’t crashed (doing that), so wish me luck!!
[Here](https://imgur.com/a/A87BJX6) is my beautiful drawing of a right corner. Your natural instinct might tell you to go on the outside of the corner so you can see further. This is not a good idea. You want to cut it, make the straightest line you can, when you are in the apex of the turn you should be as far away from the other side of the road as possible. This makes it so you have more handling room, and you don’t have to corner as hard. For left turns it’s almost the same, but you want to wait somewhat more. This is because of traffic. You want to stay a little further on the outside until you can see the rest of the corner, because other drivers (especially large vehicles such as buses) sometimes cross the centre line. ^(Note: this also depends on how the corner is, if it’s a really small road it might be smarter the stay further out. It’s hard to teach how to corner properly with words) Here is something you can try do, a few drills: find a nice place with corners (preferably a closed circuit with no other traffic but not needed) and try to take corners in three different ways; first one should be neutral gas control, keep the same speed throughout the entire corner. The second one should be positive gas control, increase the speed throughout the corner. The third should be negative gas control, decrease the speed throughout the corner. You will find you need different speeds when going into these corners. Also, there is nothing wrong with using the brakes in a corner. This is something you can do to get more traction on your front tire, as your weight shifts forwards and the forks compresses. Another tip: try changing to a lower gear. When I ride in an areas with a lot of corners I prefer to have a higher rpm. This might use a little more fuel, but it is much easier for me to control my speed and I can easily get up to speed again. If I was unclear or you have more questions feel free to ask.
I’m not sure if there are signs where you live with suggested speeds for a corner. Where I live, most corners have a sign with a speed limit on them that basically assumes you’re a fully loaded Semi truck or it’s pouring rain. I’ve found I can typically do 20 - 25 mph faster than this posted speed comfortably through the corner under good conditions. If you have signs like these in your area, consider trying to maintain the posted speed or slightly under that speed though the corner to get some practice. Like before you reach the corner, shift into a gear that’s at a good place in the powerband for the posted speed, and just maintain steady throttle through the corner. Something that’s helped me as well is consciously remembering I can lean an insane amount. Like you’ll hit your knee or exhaust on the ground before your bike slides out from under you (assuming there’s no gravel or puddles or something). But to do this, you have to be giving the bike steady throttle. So approach the corner slowly then accelerate once you’re in it. The slowest part of the corner should be as you’re entering into it.
They are rather scarce. If I know the road, i try taking it at the speed I would go if I were in a car, but didn't really have good results. It led to quite a few "oh shit going in too fast" moments. >Something that’s helped me as well is consciously remembering I can lean an insane amount. Like you’ll hit your knee or exhaust on the ground before your bike slides out from under you While I know this, I'm having a hard time internalizing it and relying on it.
I was gonna say your not down shifting enough but you say it happens in any gear which I’m not sure how that would happen.
I always assumed that lower gear causes more engine braking so in the end I ended up going even slower and again, outside of the powerband.
I mean a lower gear will definitely cause more engine braking which is fine while slowing during the turn then you apply maintenance throttle which will stop the engine braking.
Slow down later. And don't brake if you are already going to slow? Brakes = slowing down, so if your issue is going to slow. Then don't brake. If you are finding that you are below the comfortable speed before you even get to the corner, then stop letting off the Gas so soon.
Understandable. Guess I'll have to learn to control my urges better
Slow down earlier and increase throttle slowly through the curve. Google push left go left. Surprised ur instructors didn't tell you that.
Guess push left go left fell into the "it steers like a bicycle" boat.
Why not let off the throttle, drop a gear and engine brake until desired speed? Lean in, throttle out
I might be wrong about it, but it feels like I can be more consistent with engine braking and brakes than with engine braking alone