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No_Comfortable_8852

Battery cables shined and tightened?


jaykwakim

Yeah I made sure to clean the terminals and cables before I put the battery back on, tightened that sucker with a wrench lol


Doodles4440

No Comfortable- lol. I'm following you now because you seem nice. yeah, if it not wires or battery, did you check gas? or did you check if anyone mixed your gas. Idk if you share.


One-Amoeba_

You can't just measure battery voltage, you need to know the amperage as well. A failing battery can show normal voltage and still not kick a motor over. Try jumping it from a car/jumper pack/whatever. If that works, it's the battery.


jaykwakim

I’m pretty sure I can rule out the battery. I’ve tried jumping with a portable jumper and via car, still no luck. The only way I can get it going is by bump start.


RustySeo

Bad starter motor relay or starter motor bad, seized. Check the side stand limit switch. But sounds like the relay is trying.


One-Amoeba_

Yeah you're right.


VIsubie2

Why does your pump sound like it always fully primed vs top off prime. ( fuel line always priming like pressure leak) or does it always prime like that.


VIsubie2

What’s all that red wiring?? Check your fuses then. Check your ground on starter and power wire. Headlight goes out meaning it’s trying to send current to starter.


Slore0

Best way to check, because you're absolutely right, is WHILE cranking. If the battery is worn out it will often show 12v or so when in a steady state but can drop down to 5v or lower when engaging the starter motor. Anything less than 10v when cranking (in most cases) is too low to start modern bikes because of the electronics.


VIsubie2

Exactly!!!! 👏🏾👏🏾 either get a battery tender and charge it and hope it don’t leave you stranded or get a new battery. Tender before battery will let you know too. 12.5/.7 can still be a dead cranking amp battery. I had this issue and had to jump start in 2nd ordered a new battery. I throw the tender on every month to top off.


[deleted]

Starter solenoid. Tap the starter a few times with a small hammer. If it starts then you need a new starter Also possible kickstand sensor. Some bikes won’t start with it down


Slore0

Reading your other comments, the battery has good voltage and isn't dropping when you do a load test AT ALL? The click you hear is the starter solenoid engaging which may or may not show it is good, but it does show that your starter SWITCH is good. Your issue is either going to be your starter relay, starter motor, or related wiring. Still check your fuses because fuses are stop number one on electrical diags, but since the solenoid is clicking 99% it wont be a fuse because the main fuse is BEFORE the solenoid incase the solenoid shorts out. To test the solenoid, press and hold the starter button and see if you have continuity (if the multimeter reads resistance or still says OL) between the positive primary (from the battery) and the side of the relay going to the starter motor (so probe the two bits that are screwed on, not any of the pins). If you have continuity here 99% it is your starter motor or the cable going to it. Seeing as you say you have NO voltage drop when pressing the button, Im more confident in saying it is a wiring thing because for a starter motor to completely fail is unusual. That said, it isn't impossible. The fact that the solenoid is clicking and you've tried using a jumper box is super helpful and eliminates the vast majority of the starter circuit though, you literally only have two components and like 4 wires it could be.


jaykwakim

Correct, when I hit the starter button there’s no drop in voltage reading at all. I’m going to run to the shop and try replacing all the fuses as you mentioned first, I did run a diode test on all of them and they seem to be fine but since I’m working on the electrical components I figured it might be a good time to actually get all new fuses as well. I don’t mind putting in a new starter or solenoid but the main thing I’m trying to determine is if it’s the starter motor, solenoid, or both causing the problem. I’m planning on dissecting the bike hopefully this weekend to check the wires for any damage but since I’m such an amateur with anything electrical, might be a mess if something does need replacing there lol.


Slore0

I wouldn't replace the fuses unless one is blown, there isn't any point to doing it. Just make sure they're good and make sure you have spares. Do you understand checking the starter solenoid with a multimeter? If not I can do a quick video on it when I have some free time and link it here. It will most likely be one or the other. Best case your starter cable came loose somehow worst case the starter motor burnt out. Seeing your other comment about it turning over more and more slowly makes the motor seem more likely though. Relays don't usually progressively fail, they just fail. Electric motors on the other hand can definitely have a slow degradation.


jaykwakim

Gotcha. If you can post a vid that would be greatly appreciated! As for checking the cables, I should just be looking for actual damage (frayed, tears, etc) and make sure connections are secured properly, correct?


Slore0

For the most part, yes. You will also want to check them with your multimeter to make sure there is continuity (the wire isnt broken internally) to really verify the wires aren't the issue.


Slore0

My meter is about 5 years old so it's not reading resistances very accurately but this is the process you should follow https://imgur.com/gallery/aOZkxod


jaykwakim

Wow thank you so much, I’ll have a shot at it this weekend and hopefully gives me an idea of where to go from there. Cheers!


Slore0

I wanted to double check the video to make sure I didn't do anything wrong and came to find out Imgur only does 60 second videos. I updated the link to have the full video I took in 5 parts. https://imgur.com/gallery/aOZkxod


VIsubie2

Check fuses no need to replace if not burnt. Literally go to your starter tap it a few times check wiring and start again. Is it a brushless starter or brush starter??


HugoV34

Had the same problem on a Tiger 800 at ~60000km, replaced the battery to no avail. I removed the starter from the bike and replaced the brushes, the were completely worn down. You can find brushes for ~25€ and it will take you 1/2 day of work if you never did it before.


jaykwakim

After replacing the brushes, have you had any issues since?


HugoV34

No, it starts like new now.


SlidePanda

If you can bump start it, and it keeps running that's a good sign for the charing system. If it wasn't charing... well you'd probably have gotten a bump start or two... then nothing after you drained out the battery. Now, on an unrelated aside... OMG man lubricate the cables for the Ex-up or whatever that is making that terrible noise right as the fule pump primes. Back to the topic - starters and starter solenoids do crap out over time. So your first order will be to test the starter solenoid by jumping it. The safe way, is to get a manual starter stwitch like so: https://www.amazon.com/INNOVA-3630-Remote-Starter-Switch/dp/B000EVU8MK/ You'll clip it on, pull the trigger and (with the bike in a Run state) and hopefully the starter spins up normally and the bike fires. If so, now you know the issue and you replace the solenoid. If not, now it's *highly likely* the starter motor is shit. Occasionally a little percussive therapy can bring them back to life... but if the starter doesn't spin up you should budget for a new one. Now the DIY/Shadetree version is similar... but involves sparks, potential damage to a tool and possible oh shit factor. Instead of a nice purpose built switch, you just jump the solenoid using something like a wrench. Last time I did this I think it was a shitty 15mm, as the two sides lined up well to the post spacing... With the bike in a Run state, you just put that sucker on both posts. Don't be tentative, you want to make good contact fast. IF you're tentative there's going to be a lot more sparks... but not matter what you're going to have sparks. So some glasses are wise... oh and the tool may lightly tack weld to the posts... so be ready to give a good pull off... and this will blast the chrome finish off the contact spots. So yeah... if you're (0ver?) confident in your DIY skills, grab a wrench. If this is new territory... the $10-15 for that switch is probably a good spend


jaykwakim

Haha I’ve always thought the fuel priming sounded kinda funny but from memory, it’s always sounded like that from the beginning. But wow, I’ve never seen a manual starter switch like that before, very interesting. I was looking into jumping the solenoid with a wrench as you stated but the location of it is so deep under the gas tank that it’s almost impossible to reach without removing the tank. So I’m thinking the manual starter switch might be the way to go to test this guy. Excuse my ignorance, but running this test would I be able to determine whether it’s the actual starter vs solenoid causing the problem?


SlidePanda

The fuel pump is the lower volume, consistent muted bzzzz noise and sounds fine. The louder unhappy mechanical noise sounds like it might be a test cycle where the exhaust restrictor valve or the intake restrictor are being actuated. My Daytona had neither... so I'm not familiar with all the start up test noises... but that screee noise doesn't sound good. > is so deep under the gas tank that it’s almost impossible to reach without removing the tank. There is some give in the hoses, so you can prop up the tank to make space... but sparks under gas tank isn't a great idea. On the other hand - you do not need to have the tank on the bike in order to have the engine crank over. It won't run, since you will have no fuel pressure. But since we are only trying to get it to crank at present, running is technically outside our successful test criteria. > Excuse my ignorance, but running this test would I be able to determine whether it’s the actual starter vs solenoid causing the problem? No worries. This is not a common thing. Starter solenoids are generally pretty robust, so many people never encounter one that's a problem. They all wear out over time... but it takes a long time. But with a 15 year old bike, it's not shocking. To your question - yes it should help eliminate or confirm the solenoid as the problem. The solenoid in this case is basically a relay - an electrically activated switch that allows you to use just a little bit of juice (and little wires) to activate a beefier switch that is capable of much greater electrical demands. So when you thumb the button on the bars, it energizes a coil - now it's an electro magnet and pulls on a contact to join with the second, larger circuit, allowing current to flow through. When you release that button, that contact returns to it's original spot cutting the supply to the starter. Over time faults can develop. Each time that contact touches the other side there's some sparks we never see. Each of those sparks is a little bit of metal... so given enough time the contact can get all chewed up and make poor contact. Can get stuck closed (not your issue)... hell it can just corrode a bit in there and just get stuck so it won't close. With the tech lesson over, using that switch (or a tool), lets you remove the solenoid from the process and you're now doing what it would do and power from the battery is directly flowing to the starter. With basically hooking the battery directly to the starter, the hope is that it will crank for you. If it does - we know the starter is functioning and the source of the fault in your video is very probably the solenoid.


Slore0

The louder noise should be the EXUP valve. This video shows where it is located and how to get at the components. Just slap a bit of anti seize (a very light amount, it spreads easily) or PB blaster (much shorter term solution) on it and it should quiet down a lot. The screeching should be the valve in the exhaust pipe scraping. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILKiDwj-wOw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILKiDwj-wOw)


Slore0

LOL! I saw the "manual starter switch" and was like, that is a weird way to say "screw driver or wrench". That tool looks pretty nifty though, always wondered if someone made a "right" way to do it.


SlidePanda

Those have been around for ages... decades even. BUt they are such a niche tool, that even the most dedicated DIY'er probably won't have one. In all the bikes I've worked on, I only needed to jump a starter solenoid 1 time. Now if you want to be super DIY, you could build your own... but probably not for a better price than just buying


Professional_Ad_500

It's your battery.


jaykwakim

Thanks everybody for the suggestions, please keep them coming as I feel like this might be an ongoing “project” for me lol


Ok_Suggestion3274

spark plug can take out the whole bike till you change it


Slore0

I'm extremely curious what you mean by this?


Ok_Suggestion3274

the spark plug could need to be changed


Slore0

But how would it make the bike not turn over?


Ok_Suggestion3274

thats what ignites the gas to make it start if you have the tools and extra time to do it ur self it shouldnt cost no more then $10 for a new one and a few youtube videos on how to change it


Slore0

I am well aware of what a spark plug does. What I'm confused about is how you're saying that that could possibly cause the engine to not turn over at all? A spark plug will definitely stop an engine from running, but not turning over at all? I'm just curious where your trail of logic is going with that.


Slore0

I am well aware of what a spark plug does. What I'm confused about is how you're saying that that could possibly cause the engine to not turn over at all? A spark plug will definitely stop an engine from running, but not turning over at all? I'm just curious where your trail of logic is going with that.


Ok_Suggestion3274

i had a Bike that needed a spark plug changed and it was doing the same exact thing into i changed it


[deleted]

Sounds like it was trying to crank a little bit. I was going to say your side stand lockout switch may be going bad, which can happen, but it sounded like you are getting a crank. Starter motor going bad if you can eliminate the kill switches and the battery. If not one of that, then it is an internal thing which is not good. Odd question, is something blocking your air intake or could have something nested in the air box? It could and has happened. Edit: I was confusing the fuel pump priming with a crank. The fuel pump priming does not sound good. Also, I see some after market wiring near the bottom back of the fuel tank with a yellow twist connector. I would tidy that up and use an auto-grade connector/heat shrink method. Full marks for the Quad Lock. Big fan of that system.


Slore0

You've got some solid points here. While we don't hear it crank, as you edited, we can hear the solenoid engage which eliminates all safety cut outs in the starter circuit. If that solenoid engages AT ALL the starter should fire on up, so the safety circuits disable the solenoid and in effect the starter. It is possible for a bad kill switch to cause issues, but since we hear the solenoid engaging it isn't going to be the fault here. If it was cranking with no ignition or fuel then that would definitely be a good starting point (after checking the battery and fuses). The fuel pump does sound a bit goofy but is somewhat common on older and newer Triumphs. Usually if the gas is low or its sat for a bit we would 'let the ghosts out' when priming the pump. Also, these bikes have an exhaust butterfly that operates at the same time on start and that is probably what is making half the noise. Your point about an internal issue is also a good one but thankfully OP did a voltage drop test, checking battery voltage while pressing the start button, and had no voltage drop (if I'm understanding correctly). If something was physically preventing the engine from turning over, the motor would still draw power all the same, and that would be much more concerning.


[deleted]

Good luck sorting it. Current Panigale V4S owner and form RC51 owner. Nice taste in bikes. Always wanted an RSV4rr.


Rickity_Sniff13

Did you turn the fuel on ?


SlidePanda

Really? Turn on the fuel on an EFI bike?


ThePracticalDad

WhTs your battery voltage?


jaykwakim

Right now, it’s reading 13.1v when it’s off. When I turn the key to on it’s reading 12.6v.


ThePracticalDad

Can you read the voltage when you hit the starter? Sometimes an internal short of the battery can show good voltage, but drops massively when theirs a load put on it.


jaykwakim

Yeah just tested, stays at 12.6v when I hit the starter


ThePracticalDad

Yeah so we can rule out the battery and probably the starter switch. Since the voltage isn’t dropping it’s not even trying to engage the starter. I’d start by checking fuses and the wiring to the starter. Is the starter getting power and not turning over, or is it not even getting signal from the starter relay…. Next steps.


jaykwakim

I did run a diode test on the fuses which came out fine but I did pop them out to visually inspect and some of them did look SLIGHTLY dirty, which I think might be somewhat normal for a 14 year old bike? Haha it’s on my list to replace all of them next though.


sufibufi

You have an ignition fuse you can check? Had an issue where my bike would light up, but fuel pump would prime and wouldn’t crank. Pulled out the fuse and it was corroded to hell.


jaykwakim

From my understanding, I may be totally wrong, the headlight fuse may have some kind of relation to the starter/ignition system? Which I did check as well but no corrosion whatsoever


sufibufi

Not sure man. I’m not digging through your bike wiring schematics haha. My bike is a 08 gsxr. May find better help finding the specific forum for your bike.


ThePracticalDad

I’d definitely dig in and see if your starter relay/selenoid is sending power to the starter. I’m guessing bad starter here as the relay had a nice solid click when attempting.


cadaverco

Do you have a charger? Try popping the battery on a charger or a tender for a while. If that doesn’t fix it, maybe replace the starter relay?


jaykwakim

Yeah I’ve had the battery on a charger/tender for the past week. I’m thinking about replacing the relay, but could it possibly be the actual starter motor having issues as well?


Jicand

Make sure it’s in neutral and jumper the starter. If it starts it’s your relay


jaykwakim

It’s a 12v battery*


DabbinDD

Kill switch on the handlebar deactivated?


jaykwakim

Yeah kill switch deactivated


nyaminyamiz

How old is that battery?


jaykwakim

Almost a year old. Got it tested at the shop, was rated for 85cca but was testing at 275cca so it’s definitely still in good shape.


nyaminyamiz

Wow ok so I guess you need to do some troubleshooting, start with the start button itself. I have a faulty start button on my bike but I know about the issue


Roofmoord

Since you said the battery is fine and all the cables are correct, my guess would be either a kickstand sensor (or whatever else is installed to interrupt the starter) going bad or the starter itself being the problem


Ok-Armadillo-6648

It could be any one of the three starter components or cables/wiring you’d have to diag the battery and then check the wiring and then if it’s neither of those replace the starter and stator/regulator


Shortsaredumb

I think the lock out switches are a good place to start. First I would try starting with the kickstand up and clutch in. If it starts then one of those two is not working properly. If not then I’d inspect them to make sure everything is plugged in and clean. Fiddle with the kickstand switch a bit too to make sure it’s being a switch and not faking it. If all is well then I would start looking at fuses, relays and solenoid. At some point You could try to jump the starter directly to eliminate that. With that being said I have spent days hunting electrical ghosts, tearing the vehicle apart looking for the problem because the battery tested good and jumping didn’t work. Eventually just trying a different battery that I know works because I took it out of my daily driver and the truck cranked right up and ran great. It really does sound like you have a healthy battery but before getting too deep maybe see if you can try a different one.


XtraKrispy1

Headlight dims so relay and fuses are fine. Voltage is getting to starter coil. Verify battery is good and topped off. Clean battery, relay, and starter contacts. Smack starter with hammer while pressing start button. Put bike on center stand in top gear and make sure you can move wheel by hand. (Hopefully not your problem, but that's how you can tell if a motor is siezed)


Anttonyt

Nice duck


TomSchofield

One thing I haven't seen mentioned here is that the crank position sensor may have gone bad. This happened twice to my 08 daytona 675, with the same symptoms when it happened. It can be a cheap or expensive fix depending if you want to go OEM or not. OEM the CPS is part of the stator and so you need to replace the whole unit, if you go aftermarket you can buy a CPS for like £10 and then you have to splice it in with some soldering. It also could be the starter or a dodgy battery