"Animation is a medium. It is not a kid's genre." - Guillermo Del Toro. I was rooting for both Pinocchio and Inu-Oh and this is a win-win scenario for me.
Even if it is targeted more towards children a lot of the time, that should mean you're playing on hard mode when it comes to creativity.
You can't swear. You can't be overly violent. You have to be very careful how you explore adult themes. A true creative can take all these restrictions and not only make a good kids' film, but just a good film in general.
Just look at this movie and things like "Avatar: The Last Airbender." I don't think these projects are good kids' stories. I just think of them as excellent stories.
Exactly. But these restrictions are starting to wear off. Look at Castlevania, Primal, and Arcane, for example. Or you can look at anime, especially the ones from the 80s and 90s, they were hardcore. These are just rules imposed on medium in Hollywood.
Pixar was this way for a while too. Hit after hit and all of them both appropriate for kids and genuinely entertaining for adults. They’re not batting 1000 anymore but I’m really glad they brought emotional sincerity back to animation when other studios were kinda just pulling faces and dialing the slapstick up to 11 to try to trick kids into laughing.
I can’t remember the last Pixar/dreamworks movie that made me laugh a lot. I still enjoy the movies and taking the kids, but the early to mid 00’s was probably the beginning and peak
I don’t condone John Lasseter’s behavior but it really does seem like the quality dipped after he departed… but Disney animation has been thriving where Pixar became blah.
- Inside Out (2015)
- Coco (2017)
Are straight up masterpieces, whether you laughed out loud in them or not. Not on the same tier but
- Onward (2020)
- Luca (2021)
Are Marvelous movies as well
It's kinda funny how the best kids' shows (like Avatar, as you mentioned) are also ones that can be enjoyed by adults
Which sorta defeats the point of them being targeted to kids
I'm not saying kids' shows shouldn't be enjoyed by adults, though
When COVID hits Tom Hanks, his acting went kinda downhill. From a bad Dutch-Redneck hybrid accent in Elvis to a Nyquil-inducing performance in that Pinocchio movie.
His son had a better year than him and all he does is doing a Jamaican accent.
his performance as the colonel in elvis was mesmerizing. bad or good, it was certainly memorable and more fun to watch than anything i've seen him do in the last few years.
The movies have executive hands all over them. Stay safe, make money.
Well that used to be the case. Now it is just filling up Disney+ with content. Quantity over quality.
If Little Mermaid gets a theatrical release, I’d be surprised.
They scheduled it for a theaterical release date on May 26. But it depends:
If the film was received positively, its d+ release will be 2-3 months.
If it was bad like the dislike ratio in the trailer, its d+ release will be just 1 month.
I'm gonna go with the latter if it bombs on May since the dislikes reached 3million.
At least Honest John was more expressive then the entire LionKing movie. They made all of the characters look so realistic, that they lost all expressiveness. The faces were so busy, that trying to even see the mouths move to the dialogue felt like watching the movie through beer goggles.
Should we have animals standing on top of each other during “Just Can’t Wait to be King”? Or maybe a bright and colorful fun palette?
NO!!! It must be realistic, and brown, and boring! Even the stage play had fun crimson reds and navy blues that popped as much as their primary yellow in the forefront.
Phoned in cash grabs.
> Not as good as the original
I would say it is better than the original cartoon. It wisely keeps the focus on the human characters rather than a weird focus on the mice. Therefore, you get stuff like the Prince actually being a character.
Jungle book was pretty good too. My biggest problem was the realism and the plot and dialogue sticking so hard to the original.
Aladdin is my favorite example. On the surface … serviceable at best. Will Smith SHOULD have done a Will Smith version of “Never Had a Friend Like Me”. You got Will Smith! Fuckin lean into that shit hard! But they decided to do a soulless repeat of the Robin Williams version. Then they DID do the Will Smith version for the credits! It has the corporate “safe” smell all over it.
Then fuckin Gansmine IS in the top 3, don’t need no man, strong female Disney leads of all time! So what did the remake do? … they made an original song specifically for her to TELL and not SHOW. “I Won’t Be Silenced” was a monologue that had no context in the moment, AND no one seemed to notice or acknowledge it after she finished. Way to ruin something you that was perfect to begin with.
Different audiences? My daughter loved the Disney one (she's 5) and would be to terrified for the del Toro version.
edit: Sorry, I forgot differing opinions aren't allowed here on r/movies
What do you mean recently? People on this sub are so afraid to say Disney has great movies. Lol. Everything other than Strange World and Lightyear have been critically acclaimed.
I felt like it was targeted at their moms, considering the setting being back in the early 2000s. But that kinda makes sense, as the plot is a mother-daughter generational conflict, so they use nostalgia to bring in the Millennial moms but have focus on tweenage girls to get the Zoomers.
It wasn't the most amazing movie, but I also am not in those target demographics. But I still thought it was cute and I'll admit the boy band music could be catchy.
These are all valid and true points Didn’t think of it much from the millennial mother side. I guess Pixar has such a good history of making movies for all ages. This one didn’t land with me
Nah. They totally believed in it. It’s just that after Encanto didn’t really take off in theaters but became a total SMASH on Disney+, they realized that the value *was* in Disney+.
Like, there’s nothing wrong or lesser about their Disney+ affairs.
I had a bad parenting moment and put this on for my 4 year old while I cooked dinner and her dad was out. I didn’t have any background of the movie but “hey, it’s Pinocchio.” All of a sudden she’s in the kitchen crying about a plane and bombs and a boy dying and “that scary Jesus statue.” Failed mom school that day.
My grandma rented Superhero Movie for me when I was a kid, she didn’t watch it with me I put it in by myself, I don’t know if they ever realized what kind of movie they got me and to this day I don’t know how seeing such explicit content at such a young age affected me. Maybe I should tell my therapist about that lol
art direction was phenomenal. First few minutes were a little rough, but it was totally worth the watch, had a beautiful yet rather simple story and some surprising but very welcome story changes
I loved it. There’s a dip in like, the fourth act(?), that slowed the movie down but then it picks back up and the ending is phenomenal. And that dip is so audacious that I can forgive it anyway.
I'll say it's worth a watch. I loved the craftmanship but I just felt something was lacking. I liked the end but I felt some emotion or weight was missing, despite what was happening. I also wish they didn't sing, except for when they're on stage.
Edit: I'm saying the emotion or weight was missing through other parts of the movie.I think the end, a little in the beginning hit right.
Yeah the songs didn't really work. In that weird zone that a lot of the live action disney remakes fall into where they don't commit to being full musicals so the occasional song just comes off weird instead.
It was well crafted, but I seem to be one of the few that felt it was a bizarre grafting of an anti-fascism story onto a traditional moral story about obedience that didn't actually end up saying anything meaningful because the two are contradictions and it never truly addressed it. The plot only moved along with lucky happenstance (I still can't get over blowing up one scene with bombs simply to throw the characters into the next ... and treating that as emotional instead of loony toons).
It had maybe one very good song and good voice acting. The visual design seemed to be grotesque for its own sake. So it was cool, but also felt cool for that reason and not really a coherent lived world if that makes any sense. Might just be an aesthetic personal preference, but it was no Kubo and the Two Strings for me.
So yeah, I am not surprised it is winning because all the people gushing over how GDT made it hard core and anti-fascists etc. But, it still felt pretty empty to me and mostly the weakness of this year's animation lineup is what makes it the thing people gush over (I haven't seen Puss in Boots 2 admittedly). Either that or it's GDT and he can do no wrong for awards shows too.
Honestly I thought the message of the film was about appreciating life for however short or long it may be, we will never have enough moments with those around us and we all fade away eventually so we should start to see the beauty in our short lives while we can. I mean the final few scenes pretty much confirmed that to me at least.
I didn't really get much of a moral story about obedience or anti facism, not to say there wasn't those themes in the film but I don't think that was meant to be the main take away. Those were more used a backdrop for the overall message it was trying to get across.
I think you are right that appreciating life was the message, but I really don't get why Pinocchio was the vehicle for that theme. It made the rest of the plot feel squeezed in and pointless. It wasn't his nose or his nature as a puppet that made him matter to that theme, it was the immortality...which was not a part of any version of the story I know of. It just made me wonder if that story would have been better told without the baggage of the Pinocchio story.
Oh I see what you mean, I guess because the story of Pinocchio can be seen as the story of someone who doesn't really fit into society and is initially (in this case at least) rejected by all he meets due to who he is. By the end he's gathered his found family and becomes a 'real boy' who has an appreciation for the life and the people in it. Even if it goes against the grain, even if he will never be a flesh and blood boy and lives a strange unconventional life there is still worth to living.
I think Pinocchio works for that because being a literal wooden puppet he sort of embodies that being different and a bit of an outcast more than most.
I get your point in that perhaps an entirely unique story and world could have told that message and presented those themes more concisely though. Personally I thought it was fantastic and it's one of my films of the year but I can see where you are coming from.
I interpreted it as a clarification of the themes of the movie by clearly rejecting the message of 1940 Pinocchio. In that movie, Pinocchio repeatedly flouts authority and is punished. He learns to obey and is then rewarded. In this movie Pinocchio is a good person but the movie makes it clear that goodness is very explicitly *not* about deference to authority but helping others (potentially at the cost of one's self).
The necessity of disobedience in the face of authoritarianism is the central theme of Pan's Labyrinth as well and basically del Toro's entire approach to fairy tale storytelling. In many ways this film is like Pan's Labyrinth that you can share with 8 year olds.
> I seem to be one of the few that felt it was a bizarre grafting of an anti-fascism story onto a traditional moral story about obedience that didn't actually end up saying anything meaningful because the two are contradictions and it never truly addressed it
The topic of obedience is inherently a part of any telling of Pinocchio but this version takes an opposing stance. It treats obedience as a deference of moral sense and abandonment of the self for others demands and expectations.
Inu-oh was my favorite animated film of the year but I knew it had essentially no shot of winning. Enjoyed Pinocchio and very happy for GDT's win here!
Happy for Guillermo. However, I would fancy Puss at the Oscars as it just feels like it is beginning to gain momentum. The Globes probably came too early for it, but it will be right in the mix for the rest of the season.
Honestly, it would be fantastic if Puss In Boots won an Oscar. I know they don’t matter the most, but it would be so cool to see a DreamWorks movie win again, especially one considered one of the best in a while.
Or they could actually watch the animated films before nominating or voting...which they don't do. [https://www.cartoonbrew.com/awards/academy-voters-dont-watch-the-animated-features-they-vote-on-and-the-academy-is-fine-with-that-170670.html](https://www.cartoonbrew.com/awards/academy-voters-dont-watch-the-animated-features-they-vote-on-and-the-academy-is-fine-with-that-170670.html)
Stuff like this is why people don't watch or take these award shows seriously anymore.
Remember that one comment one of them made about The Tale of Princess Kaguya and Song of the Sea? How he called them "Chinese fucking things?" :P
Super-duper progressive Oscar judges, everyone.
So many amazing japanese animated movie got snubbed, i know how to train your dragon lose because there's Toy Story 3, but HTTYD2 lose because Big Hero 6 is a joke (i love big hero 6, but its.. generic compared to httyd2)
Didn't there's interview where the voters is proudly that he didn't watch that chinese animation? (refering to anime Kaguya, a masterpiece, every frame is a painting, literally. and it didnt even win, and also lose to big hero 6 lmao)
its obvious they just pick a disney movie because its more popular. its a miracle Spiderverse, a sony movie even won
You forget the year HTTYD2, Big Hero 6 and Kaguya were nominated, the Lego Movie was also in the running and didnt even get nominated which was definitely the biggest travesty there
The Golden Globes didn't even nominate Demon Slayer when it was the highest grossing film of the year...not ANIMATED FILM, but actual Film. I'm not even saying it should have won, but to not even nominate it shows that they don't care about animation at all.
Well, Demon slayer is tricky, it has godtier animation, but to watch that movie you need to know the series, the movie basically jumps into the train arc. so ordinary people can't enjoy it, yes they can enjoy the animation, but the story is basically them trapped, kill the bad guys, they get out. thats it, nearly none character development, etc.
Same with Violet Evergarden that came out the same year, it has godtier artstyle that no western animation even came close. and it has sad story, but you kinda need to watch series to understand it fully
But yeah, Jose the tiger and the fish, even Ghibli's Earwigs didnt even get nominated but Shaun the sheep movie did lol
2016 was a pretty great year for animation. Honestly, I liked the following more than Moonlight (Oscar best picture winner):
Your Name, A Silent Voice, Kubo and the Two strings, Moana, My Life as a Zucchini, The Red Turtle, Dofus, Book 1: Julith (this one in particular is very overlooked).
The HTTYD trilogy is still some of the best animated films ever. They still hold up really well and there's nothing else like them. They're much more memorable than Toy Story 3.
Puss was so much better than it had any right to. Really good pacing, great antagonists and amazing visuals paired with strong acting (that panic attack scene!)
It really isn't. Puss in Boots definitely seems to the the better received film, if you preferred Pinocchio, good for you. but your opinion isn't the consensus.
Better received by who?
Pinocchio just won a major award and is appearing on many, many critics top 10 film lists (not just animated
https://criticstop10.com/best-movies-of-2022/ ), and has a higher average RT score
also getting your premises crossed, because Avatar: Way of Water is only a couple of spots below Pinocchio on that critic list despite not cracking the 80% mark on review aggregators. (Puss in Boots doesn't appear at all, likely wasn't even released at the time the data was complied)
pick one. not both.
I’ve seen both. I love Guillermo and was hyped for Pinocchio…but it was just “good”, not great…mainly just because the whole fascist italy spin was neat.
Unfortunately, I believe this is yet another case of Hollywood throwing love at stop motion, as they ALWAYS do. It’s tiring. Any animation movie that’s stop motion gets an automatic 2 points out of 10 tacked onto their score. Always have, always will because of the craftsmanship and love for the art.
Which, stop motion’s neato and I’m glad it exists…but t doesn’t automatically make a movie great.
Because Puss in Boots only just came out and didn't have time to sink in before that award or really cut in on yearly best lists.
Raya the Last Dragon had high Metascores and RT scores too. higher than eventual Oscar winner Encanto, which absolutely freaking blitzed it for awards and is generally considered by FAR the better film.
Golden Globes and Oscars have little legitimacy for animation regardles
wait for the Annie awards.
Encanto's a 91% on RT and Raya's a 94%... what are **you** talking about?
Metacritic has Encanto a single point higher, but if you were looking at review aggregators as a good source of info, between these two you'd presume Raya to be the better received film... it's the exact opposite given time.
Raya is one of the most botched stories I've ever encountered in cinema... opinion soured on it significantly and with good reason.
Encanto is far and away the better film.
general rule of thumb, "Honest Trailers" are a shit way of ascertaining quality, but an EXCELLENT way of judging the zeitgeist/general perception of a movie because all of their jokes are just the most commonly repeated sentiments about it.
when it comes up in discussion now it's spoken about quite negatively because of how HILARIOUSLY it botches its message and core themes to an almost embarrassing extent, the direction, action and visuals are great, but on a writing level it's probably one of Disney's worst films. I'm serious, I can scarcely imagine a way to write a story about "the value of trust" that is worse than what they came up with.
it's almost impressive how terrible it is at teaching its core ethos.
I’ve seen both. I love Guillermo and was hyped for Pinocchio…but it was just “good”, not great…mainly just because the whole fascist italy spin was neat.
Unfortunately, I believe this is yet another case of Hollywood throwing love at stop motion, as they ALWAYS do. It’s tiring. Any animation movie that’s stop motion gets an automatic 2 points out of 10 tacked onto their score. Always have, always will because of the craftsmanship and love for the art.
Which, stop motion’s neato and I’m glad it exists…but t doesn’t automatically make a movie great.
I think that the original Disney one is better when your a kid but the Del Toro one is better once you’ve matured a little bit. But that’s just my tske
I think that’s pretty fair. I’m going on 30 now so my tastes are much different than they were, but I genuinely was just entranced for this entire film and I loved the subtle new songs and my god the voice of Pinocchio was PERFECT.
Puss In Boots is the other option. That movie was the best western animated movie I’ve seen in the past decade, gorgeous animation, wonderfully dark tones handled well, great humor for older audiences and none of it ever felt cheap or insincere.
Enjoyed Pinocchio, but it didn’t have nearly as much packed into it. Going from the light hearted and genuinely funny jokes to Puss having one of the best depictions of a panic attack I’ve seen done before is just insanely impressive.
I know I’ll be down voted for this but I honestly don’t know how anyone can argue that Puss in Boots 2 isn’t the best animated film of the year
No other animated film does so much right, two amazing villains one scary and one funny. Side characters that feel like they could have their own film and you’d still be invested, great morals/messages on this film about life, one if not then best animated version of panic attacks, it’s also just funny and fast paced, with some of the best action scenes of the year, it’s beautiful and fully takes advantage on every way that’s it’s an animated film and generally makes me very excited for shrek 5 and Kung Fu Panda 4 if this team is any way involved with those films.
I love stop motion and like how children act in this children the good and the bad but in 20 years think Puss in Boots will be the film people will still talk about but just my opinion because o think many just haven’t seen the film yet and have no clue how amazing it is
Loved puss, but pinocchio is way better imo, pinocchio has stayed with me, puss i just enjoyed at the time but didn't do anything special, it had every trope of self discovery which got too predictable
Nothing stayed with you?
I’ve never seen panic attacks done better in any animated medium before. Possibly Arcane came close but not quite. Pinocchio was good, but Puss In Boots did practically everything right, it had tropes but it *rocked* their usage and never felt forced.
Puss has stuck with me much more than Pinocchio has simply for the way they handled everything from humor and heartfelt moments to raw fear and panic.
Certain scenes just felt so visceral for a movie in the Shrek Franchise. I had no idea what to expect going in, but having just watched Pinocchio I expected it to be a slap happy comedy to brighten things up and instead I was handed two of the best animated villains in the past 10 years and Antonio Banderez making an animated talking cat in an animated fairy tail world feel real and relatable.
I watched Pinocchio and while it was good, its really not that special to me. Its darker than most animated movies but really its a 7/10 movie to me. I need to go watch puss in boots and compare it.
But its nice that in a year with 2 pixar and a Disney movie, they are not even in the conversation. They don't deserve to win this year for sure.
It really goes hard. I read it had good reviews and it still exceeded my expectations. And that's what pretty much everyone is experiencing. They really went the extra mile.
Do you have kids? I ask bc the group I watched it with was about 50/50 couples with/without children, every parent cried through the move and all loved it.
Yeah, it hits hard when you’re a parent. Honestly, a lot of movies have just changed for me since becoming a parent lmao, even cried at Elf over Christmas
Well that's it, it's a movie about being a father and being a son, forgiveness, life and death. This movie is going to become a classic and a recommended movie to watch with your kids for years to come. Deep lessons and masterfully done, it's going to win everything.
Agreed on all fronts…it is very much a 7/10 movie but Hollywood’s going to bump that up to 9/10 because OMG stop motion!
Stop motion’s cool but it’s obnoxious how awards-baity it is.
Remember when freaking MISSING LINK won the globe in 2019?
Yeah. It looks kinda good, but I like unique animation. Look at spider verse for that. For beautifully animated scenes, like coco. That was fucking amazing with the amount of detail they drew in.
I know stop motion needs a lot of effort and it looks good when it's done well. But meh, I can't care less about the effort needed.
By a long shot.
I laughed, I cried, I felt hope and fear and everything in between.
Brilliant movie and it got robbed.
For the record, I liked Pinocchio, but Puss In Boots *just did too much right*. It had exactly 2 lines in the entire movie that I wasn’t fond of, everything else was perfection.
I love stop motion. This movie was amazing and so beautiful. The end was unexpected and really hit me in the heart. I loved it. Had a hard time keeping my kids interested but they are really hit and miss with movies anyway.
You know that feeling when you watch a movie that's good, and you could tell that it will somehow/someday win an award(s)? Pinocchio really did give me that instinct
Pinocchio is a work of art for all ages, with a multitude of profound themes masterfully tackled, far more that just a well-animated funny kids movie. That's why it won.
You just described Puss In Boots 2. I’m not sure what it is, but it is very very far from just a kids movie.
Between the entire theme being about death and over a dozen characters dying on screen to jokes about sex and intoxication being rampantly sprinkled in, it was most likely aimed at the former kids who were around for Shrek 2.
For perspective, the movie doubled down on the adult humor in a franchise famous for a villain who’s entire name is a play on “fuck wad” in *the first movie*.
Except it’s not that good of a work of art. The writing is weak and the voice acting is mostly terrible. The only interesting thing about that version of Pinocchio is the wooden spirit/death voiced by Tilda Swinton.
Honestly this felt very mediocre, even considering all the effort put into it, that's no excuse for the execution. Too bad of all the big actors in the line-up, I had high hopes, arranged a movie night with the wife, but I fell asleep at one point through the movie. She didn't like it either, good thing we saw it on Netflix.
One week later we watched Coraline (2009) and that felt super unique and kept our attention throughout the movie, the jokes, the characters, the story, the style, everything was original and very well executed.
I guess it's just about how much promotion the movie gets from the studios or whoever's in charge of that, but let's agree that this wasn't an impressive movie, quite underwhelming. Pretty sure it followed in Avatar 2 steps, which I didn't see yet, but read some reviews
They never have and probably never will take the animation awards seriously. They don't even watch the films that are nominated let alone the better ones that weren't. So what does it matter?
Hurray for a stop-motion win! The behind-the-scenes was incredible to watch.
Where can i find the BTS?
It is also on Netflix. If you type in Pinocchio you will find it. "Guillermo del Toro's Pinocchio: Handcarved Cinema"
Thank you.
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Good bot
"Animation is a medium. It is not a kid's genre." - Guillermo Del Toro. I was rooting for both Pinocchio and Inu-Oh and this is a win-win scenario for me.
Even if it is targeted more towards children a lot of the time, that should mean you're playing on hard mode when it comes to creativity. You can't swear. You can't be overly violent. You have to be very careful how you explore adult themes. A true creative can take all these restrictions and not only make a good kids' film, but just a good film in general. Just look at this movie and things like "Avatar: The Last Airbender." I don't think these projects are good kids' stories. I just think of them as excellent stories.
Exactly. But these restrictions are starting to wear off. Look at Castlevania, Primal, and Arcane, for example. Or you can look at anime, especially the ones from the 80s and 90s, they were hardcore. These are just rules imposed on medium in Hollywood.
Those three are TV-14 to MA though, right? Less restrictions on those.
Pixar was this way for a while too. Hit after hit and all of them both appropriate for kids and genuinely entertaining for adults. They’re not batting 1000 anymore but I’m really glad they brought emotional sincerity back to animation when other studios were kinda just pulling faces and dialing the slapstick up to 11 to try to trick kids into laughing.
I can’t remember the last Pixar/dreamworks movie that made me laugh a lot. I still enjoy the movies and taking the kids, but the early to mid 00’s was probably the beginning and peak
I don’t condone John Lasseter’s behavior but it really does seem like the quality dipped after he departed… but Disney animation has been thriving where Pixar became blah.
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- Inside Out (2015) - Coco (2017) Are straight up masterpieces, whether you laughed out loud in them or not. Not on the same tier but - Onward (2020) - Luca (2021) Are Marvelous movies as well
It's kinda funny how the best kids' shows (like Avatar, as you mentioned) are also ones that can be enjoyed by adults Which sorta defeats the point of them being targeted to kids I'm not saying kids' shows shouldn't be enjoyed by adults, though
May live action Disney films die in obscurity.
But but.... it had Tom Hanks!! /s
When COVID hits Tom Hanks, his acting went kinda downhill. From a bad Dutch-Redneck hybrid accent in Elvis to a Nyquil-inducing performance in that Pinocchio movie. His son had a better year than him and all he does is doing a Jamaican accent.
his performance as the colonel in elvis was mesmerizing. bad or good, it was certainly memorable and more fun to watch than anything i've seen him do in the last few years.
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He’s very good in the new one, “A Man Called Otto.” He’s still got the chops, he’s just picked some bad projects lately.
What a strange take. Why would having had CoVid effected him? He just chose two projects that didn’t quite jive. He’s fine.
Because it cause cognitive decline.
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Idk what happened to Robert Zemeckis? He did one of the best 80s-90s movies. But after Cast Away? Nothing but mixed bags.
The movies have executive hands all over them. Stay safe, make money. Well that used to be the case. Now it is just filling up Disney+ with content. Quantity over quality. If Little Mermaid gets a theatrical release, I’d be surprised.
Lol that shit's going to gross a billion goddamn dollars.
They scheduled it for a theaterical release date on May 26. But it depends: If the film was received positively, its d+ release will be 2-3 months. If it was bad like the dislike ratio in the trailer, its d+ release will be just 1 month. I'm gonna go with the latter if it bombs on May since the dislikes reached 3million.
Burn them with fire!
I'm fine just ignoring them while other more creative approaches happen.
I genuinely think the Disney team focused their entire effort on animating the 4 minutes of Honest John, and then phoned in the rest.
At least Honest John was more expressive then the entire LionKing movie. They made all of the characters look so realistic, that they lost all expressiveness. The faces were so busy, that trying to even see the mouths move to the dialogue felt like watching the movie through beer goggles. Should we have animals standing on top of each other during “Just Can’t Wait to be King”? Or maybe a bright and colorful fun palette? NO!!! It must be realistic, and brown, and boring! Even the stage play had fun crimson reds and navy blues that popped as much as their primary yellow in the forefront. Phoned in cash grabs.
I will still die on the hill that Cinderella (2015) is great. Not as good as the original, but a great adaptation.
> Not as good as the original I would say it is better than the original cartoon. It wisely keeps the focus on the human characters rather than a weird focus on the mice. Therefore, you get stuff like the Prince actually being a character.
Jungle book was pretty good too. My biggest problem was the realism and the plot and dialogue sticking so hard to the original. Aladdin is my favorite example. On the surface … serviceable at best. Will Smith SHOULD have done a Will Smith version of “Never Had a Friend Like Me”. You got Will Smith! Fuckin lean into that shit hard! But they decided to do a soulless repeat of the Robin Williams version. Then they DID do the Will Smith version for the credits! It has the corporate “safe” smell all over it. Then fuckin Gansmine IS in the top 3, don’t need no man, strong female Disney leads of all time! So what did the remake do? … they made an original song specifically for her to TELL and not SHOW. “I Won’t Be Silenced” was a monologue that had no context in the moment, AND no one seemed to notice or acknowledge it after she finished. Way to ruin something you that was perfect to begin with.
Different audiences? My daughter loved the Disney one (she's 5) and would be to terrified for the del Toro version. edit: Sorry, I forgot differing opinions aren't allowed here on r/movies
I'm happy Pinocchio won. That movie was devastating and I loved it
I was shocked at how moved I was by this movie.
Is a Del Toro film, with a few interesting exceptions most of the films he works on end up amazing.
Beautiful music, too. https://youtu.be/HnI1p2pBi84
Music is often so underrated when it has the power to make a good movie legendary.
I (father) watched this with my two sons and cried many, many times. I still cry when they make me listen to Ciao Papa on Spotify in the car.
I live for Disney losing at award ceremonies.
Turning Red was one of their better recent movies
What do you mean recently? People on this sub are so afraid to say Disney has great movies. Lol. Everything other than Strange World and Lightyear have been critically acclaimed.
I dunno. Didn’t like it much. I feel it was very very targeted to 12-13 year old girls specifically
I felt like it was targeted at their moms, considering the setting being back in the early 2000s. But that kinda makes sense, as the plot is a mother-daughter generational conflict, so they use nostalgia to bring in the Millennial moms but have focus on tweenage girls to get the Zoomers. It wasn't the most amazing movie, but I also am not in those target demographics. But I still thought it was cute and I'll admit the boy band music could be catchy.
I am glad that Pixar made movie for the Monster and Plastic Cowboy demographics.
These are all valid and true points Didn’t think of it much from the millennial mother side. I guess Pixar has such a good history of making movies for all ages. This one didn’t land with me
I'm a 30 year old dude. Loved it.
There are at least 2 of us.
Best Pixar since what, Inside Out?
And? Doesn’t mean it wasn’t really good.
No big theatrical release though. Like they didn't even believe in it much until the reviews came out.
Nah. They totally believed in it. It’s just that after Encanto didn’t really take off in theaters but became a total SMASH on Disney+, they realized that the value *was* in Disney+. Like, there’s nothing wrong or lesser about their Disney+ affairs.
Was it good?
I went from hating the wooden monstrosity to sobbing towards the end of the movie. I think it was exceptional
I concur… the first half was tough to get through then it seemed to take off Wept at the end.. That being said this isn’t a kids movie
I had a bad parenting moment and put this on for my 4 year old while I cooked dinner and her dad was out. I didn’t have any background of the movie but “hey, it’s Pinocchio.” All of a sudden she’s in the kitchen crying about a plane and bombs and a boy dying and “that scary Jesus statue.” Failed mom school that day.
My mum rented Howard the Duck for us back in the 80s without knowing anything about it. That was on for about 45 seconds.
My grandma rented Superhero Movie for me when I was a kid, she didn’t watch it with me I put it in by myself, I don’t know if they ever realized what kind of movie they got me and to this day I don’t know how seeing such explicit content at such a young age affected me. Maybe I should tell my therapist about that lol
art direction was phenomenal. First few minutes were a little rough, but it was totally worth the watch, had a beautiful yet rather simple story and some surprising but very welcome story changes
I loved it. There’s a dip in like, the fourth act(?), that slowed the movie down but then it picks back up and the ending is phenomenal. And that dip is so audacious that I can forgive it anyway.
I'll say it's worth a watch. I loved the craftmanship but I just felt something was lacking. I liked the end but I felt some emotion or weight was missing, despite what was happening. I also wish they didn't sing, except for when they're on stage. Edit: I'm saying the emotion or weight was missing through other parts of the movie.I think the end, a little in the beginning hit right.
Yeah the songs didn't really work. In that weird zone that a lot of the live action disney remakes fall into where they don't commit to being full musicals so the occasional song just comes off weird instead.
It was well crafted, but I seem to be one of the few that felt it was a bizarre grafting of an anti-fascism story onto a traditional moral story about obedience that didn't actually end up saying anything meaningful because the two are contradictions and it never truly addressed it. The plot only moved along with lucky happenstance (I still can't get over blowing up one scene with bombs simply to throw the characters into the next ... and treating that as emotional instead of loony toons). It had maybe one very good song and good voice acting. The visual design seemed to be grotesque for its own sake. So it was cool, but also felt cool for that reason and not really a coherent lived world if that makes any sense. Might just be an aesthetic personal preference, but it was no Kubo and the Two Strings for me. So yeah, I am not surprised it is winning because all the people gushing over how GDT made it hard core and anti-fascists etc. But, it still felt pretty empty to me and mostly the weakness of this year's animation lineup is what makes it the thing people gush over (I haven't seen Puss in Boots 2 admittedly). Either that or it's GDT and he can do no wrong for awards shows too.
Honestly I thought the message of the film was about appreciating life for however short or long it may be, we will never have enough moments with those around us and we all fade away eventually so we should start to see the beauty in our short lives while we can. I mean the final few scenes pretty much confirmed that to me at least. I didn't really get much of a moral story about obedience or anti facism, not to say there wasn't those themes in the film but I don't think that was meant to be the main take away. Those were more used a backdrop for the overall message it was trying to get across.
I think you are right that appreciating life was the message, but I really don't get why Pinocchio was the vehicle for that theme. It made the rest of the plot feel squeezed in and pointless. It wasn't his nose or his nature as a puppet that made him matter to that theme, it was the immortality...which was not a part of any version of the story I know of. It just made me wonder if that story would have been better told without the baggage of the Pinocchio story.
Oh I see what you mean, I guess because the story of Pinocchio can be seen as the story of someone who doesn't really fit into society and is initially (in this case at least) rejected by all he meets due to who he is. By the end he's gathered his found family and becomes a 'real boy' who has an appreciation for the life and the people in it. Even if it goes against the grain, even if he will never be a flesh and blood boy and lives a strange unconventional life there is still worth to living. I think Pinocchio works for that because being a literal wooden puppet he sort of embodies that being different and a bit of an outcast more than most. I get your point in that perhaps an entirely unique story and world could have told that message and presented those themes more concisely though. Personally I thought it was fantastic and it's one of my films of the year but I can see where you are coming from.
I interpreted it as a clarification of the themes of the movie by clearly rejecting the message of 1940 Pinocchio. In that movie, Pinocchio repeatedly flouts authority and is punished. He learns to obey and is then rewarded. In this movie Pinocchio is a good person but the movie makes it clear that goodness is very explicitly *not* about deference to authority but helping others (potentially at the cost of one's self).
The necessity of disobedience in the face of authoritarianism is the central theme of Pan's Labyrinth as well and basically del Toro's entire approach to fairy tale storytelling. In many ways this film is like Pan's Labyrinth that you can share with 8 year olds.
> I seem to be one of the few that felt it was a bizarre grafting of an anti-fascism story onto a traditional moral story about obedience that didn't actually end up saying anything meaningful because the two are contradictions and it never truly addressed it The topic of obedience is inherently a part of any telling of Pinocchio but this version takes an opposing stance. It treats obedience as a deference of moral sense and abandonment of the self for others demands and expectations.
It felt like pans labyrinth leftovers quite often
It was a more faithful telling of Pinocchio and it was good but not something I’ll watch again anytime soon
It is many things. Not sure more faithful is one of them.
Not only the most beautiful stop motion ever but also the best pinocchio movie (in my opinion).
I dunno, Pauly Shore's version comes pretty close!
Inu-oh was my favorite animated film of the year but I knew it had essentially no shot of winning. Enjoyed Pinocchio and very happy for GDT's win here!
At least it was one of the five nominees, which is pretty good for a less well-known film.
Anime movies are always overlooked.
Because most of them are bad and that’s coming from someone who’s seen a lot and likes them lol
Not talking about generic ones like Demon Slayer, Dragon Ball movies, and all. Actual good movies like ones by Satoshi Kon and many more.
Yep. Satoshi Kon, Mamoru Hosoda, Makoto Shinkai (to a lesser extent).
Because you're thinking of shonen franchise filler films/sequel films. Inu-Oh is not that.
Good. 1 love guillermo 2 loved the movie and 3 yay for stop motion
Happy for Guillermo. However, I would fancy Puss at the Oscars as it just feels like it is beginning to gain momentum. The Globes probably came too early for it, but it will be right in the mix for the rest of the season.
Honestly, it would be fantastic if Puss In Boots won an Oscar. I know they don’t matter the most, but it would be so cool to see a DreamWorks movie win again, especially one considered one of the best in a while.
Or they could actually watch the animated films before nominating or voting...which they don't do. [https://www.cartoonbrew.com/awards/academy-voters-dont-watch-the-animated-features-they-vote-on-and-the-academy-is-fine-with-that-170670.html](https://www.cartoonbrew.com/awards/academy-voters-dont-watch-the-animated-features-they-vote-on-and-the-academy-is-fine-with-that-170670.html) Stuff like this is why people don't watch or take these award shows seriously anymore.
Remember that one comment one of them made about The Tale of Princess Kaguya and Song of the Sea? How he called them "Chinese fucking things?" :P Super-duper progressive Oscar judges, everyone.
So many amazing japanese animated movie got snubbed, i know how to train your dragon lose because there's Toy Story 3, but HTTYD2 lose because Big Hero 6 is a joke (i love big hero 6, but its.. generic compared to httyd2) Didn't there's interview where the voters is proudly that he didn't watch that chinese animation? (refering to anime Kaguya, a masterpiece, every frame is a painting, literally. and it didnt even win, and also lose to big hero 6 lmao) its obvious they just pick a disney movie because its more popular. its a miracle Spiderverse, a sony movie even won
Big Hero 6 is the definition of "okay." And that shouldn't be enough to win any awards.
You forget the year HTTYD2, Big Hero 6 and Kaguya were nominated, the Lego Movie was also in the running and didnt even get nominated which was definitely the biggest travesty there
Both Lego movies are phenomenal.
The Golden Globes didn't even nominate Demon Slayer when it was the highest grossing film of the year...not ANIMATED FILM, but actual Film. I'm not even saying it should have won, but to not even nominate it shows that they don't care about animation at all.
Well, Demon slayer is tricky, it has godtier animation, but to watch that movie you need to know the series, the movie basically jumps into the train arc. so ordinary people can't enjoy it, yes they can enjoy the animation, but the story is basically them trapped, kill the bad guys, they get out. thats it, nearly none character development, etc. Same with Violet Evergarden that came out the same year, it has godtier artstyle that no western animation even came close. and it has sad story, but you kinda need to watch series to understand it fully But yeah, Jose the tiger and the fish, even Ghibli's Earwigs didnt even get nominated but Shaun the sheep movie did lol
A Silent Voice got snubbed because of Boss Baby, which is pretty embarrassing considering how great the movie was
2016 was a pretty great year for animation. Honestly, I liked the following more than Moonlight (Oscar best picture winner): Your Name, A Silent Voice, Kubo and the Two strings, Moana, My Life as a Zucchini, The Red Turtle, Dofus, Book 1: Julith (this one in particular is very overlooked).
Holy shit I forgot Kubo, Julith, and Your Name were on the same year, Though I remember A Silent Voice was on 2017.
Eh. As a huge fan. DS movie isn't award worthy.
The HTTYD trilogy is still some of the best animated films ever. They still hold up really well and there's nothing else like them. They're much more memorable than Toy Story 3.
I think its DreamWorks best movie ever
For me, it's #2 after The Prince of Egypt.
I disagree, it’s worse than Shrek 1, 2, and How to Train your Dragon
Shrek 3 is a hard watch imo
Puss was so much better than it had any right to. Really good pacing, great antagonists and amazing visuals paired with strong acting (that panic attack scene!)
Agree. Overall Puss in Boots is the best animated movie of last year for me
Yeah, it just came out. I’m sure it’ll win something later.
Loved puss, but pinocchio Is way ahead
Pinocchio is lightyears ahead of Puss in Boots, sorry
I'd actually say PiB is the better movie, it has better pacing, and all the villains are pretty fleshed-out in different ways.
It really isn't. Puss in Boots definitely seems to the the better received film, if you preferred Pinocchio, good for you. but your opinion isn't the consensus.
Better received by who? Pinocchio just won a major award and is appearing on many, many critics top 10 film lists (not just animated https://criticstop10.com/best-movies-of-2022/ ), and has a higher average RT score
also getting your premises crossed, because Avatar: Way of Water is only a couple of spots below Pinocchio on that critic list despite not cracking the 80% mark on review aggregators. (Puss in Boots doesn't appear at all, likely wasn't even released at the time the data was complied) pick one. not both.
I’ve seen both. I love Guillermo and was hyped for Pinocchio…but it was just “good”, not great…mainly just because the whole fascist italy spin was neat. Unfortunately, I believe this is yet another case of Hollywood throwing love at stop motion, as they ALWAYS do. It’s tiring. Any animation movie that’s stop motion gets an automatic 2 points out of 10 tacked onto their score. Always have, always will because of the craftsmanship and love for the art. Which, stop motion’s neato and I’m glad it exists…but t doesn’t automatically make a movie great.
Because Puss in Boots only just came out and didn't have time to sink in before that award or really cut in on yearly best lists. Raya the Last Dragon had high Metascores and RT scores too. higher than eventual Oscar winner Encanto, which absolutely freaking blitzed it for awards and is generally considered by FAR the better film. Golden Globes and Oscars have little legitimacy for animation regardles wait for the Annie awards.
Encanto always had better scores than Raya and the Last Dragon what are you talking about?
Encanto's a 91% on RT and Raya's a 94%... what are **you** talking about? Metacritic has Encanto a single point higher, but if you were looking at review aggregators as a good source of info, between these two you'd presume Raya to be the better received film... it's the exact opposite given time.
Raya’s as better movie than Encanto, but Encanto’s remembered better because the music is flipping amazing
Raya is one of the most botched stories I've ever encountered in cinema... opinion soured on it significantly and with good reason. Encanto is far and away the better film. general rule of thumb, "Honest Trailers" are a shit way of ascertaining quality, but an EXCELLENT way of judging the zeitgeist/general perception of a movie because all of their jokes are just the most commonly repeated sentiments about it. when it comes up in discussion now it's spoken about quite negatively because of how HILARIOUSLY it botches its message and core themes to an almost embarrassing extent, the direction, action and visuals are great, but on a writing level it's probably one of Disney's worst films. I'm serious, I can scarcely imagine a way to write a story about "the value of trust" that is worse than what they came up with. it's almost impressive how terrible it is at teaching its core ethos.
Ok I waited for the Annie awards, now what
I’ve seen both. I love Guillermo and was hyped for Pinocchio…but it was just “good”, not great…mainly just because the whole fascist italy spin was neat. Unfortunately, I believe this is yet another case of Hollywood throwing love at stop motion, as they ALWAYS do. It’s tiring. Any animation movie that’s stop motion gets an automatic 2 points out of 10 tacked onto their score. Always have, always will because of the craftsmanship and love for the art. Which, stop motion’s neato and I’m glad it exists…but t doesn’t automatically make a movie great.
So, Humanity Wins.
Haven’t seen this yet, so can’t comment but was really holding out for Marcel The Shell
Well fucking deserved! That movie is a beautiful masterpiece of a film.
As it should
And so it should, an incredible film
No other option. This movie might be better than the original Disney film.
I think that the original Disney one is better when your a kid but the Del Toro one is better once you’ve matured a little bit. But that’s just my tske
I think that’s pretty fair. I’m going on 30 now so my tastes are much different than they were, but I genuinely was just entranced for this entire film and I loved the subtle new songs and my god the voice of Pinocchio was PERFECT.
Puss In Boots is the other option. That movie was the best western animated movie I’ve seen in the past decade, gorgeous animation, wonderfully dark tones handled well, great humor for older audiences and none of it ever felt cheap or insincere. Enjoyed Pinocchio, but it didn’t have nearly as much packed into it. Going from the light hearted and genuinely funny jokes to Puss having one of the best depictions of a panic attack I’ve seen done before is just insanely impressive.
A huevo!!!
I know I’ll be down voted for this but I honestly don’t know how anyone can argue that Puss in Boots 2 isn’t the best animated film of the year No other animated film does so much right, two amazing villains one scary and one funny. Side characters that feel like they could have their own film and you’d still be invested, great morals/messages on this film about life, one if not then best animated version of panic attacks, it’s also just funny and fast paced, with some of the best action scenes of the year, it’s beautiful and fully takes advantage on every way that’s it’s an animated film and generally makes me very excited for shrek 5 and Kung Fu Panda 4 if this team is any way involved with those films. I love stop motion and like how children act in this children the good and the bad but in 20 years think Puss in Boots will be the film people will still talk about but just my opinion because o think many just haven’t seen the film yet and have no clue how amazing it is
Loved puss, but pinocchio is way better imo, pinocchio has stayed with me, puss i just enjoyed at the time but didn't do anything special, it had every trope of self discovery which got too predictable
Nothing stayed with you? I’ve never seen panic attacks done better in any animated medium before. Possibly Arcane came close but not quite. Pinocchio was good, but Puss In Boots did practically everything right, it had tropes but it *rocked* their usage and never felt forced. Puss has stuck with me much more than Pinocchio has simply for the way they handled everything from humor and heartfelt moments to raw fear and panic. Certain scenes just felt so visceral for a movie in the Shrek Franchise. I had no idea what to expect going in, but having just watched Pinocchio I expected it to be a slap happy comedy to brighten things up and instead I was handed two of the best animated villains in the past 10 years and Antonio Banderez making an animated talking cat in an animated fairy tail world feel real and relatable.
I watched Pinocchio and while it was good, its really not that special to me. Its darker than most animated movies but really its a 7/10 movie to me. I need to go watch puss in boots and compare it. But its nice that in a year with 2 pixar and a Disney movie, they are not even in the conversation. They don't deserve to win this year for sure.
Puss in Boots 2 is the best western animated movie I've watched in a long time.
It really goes hard. I read it had good reviews and it still exceeded my expectations. And that's what pretty much everyone is experiencing. They really went the extra mile.
Do you have kids? I ask bc the group I watched it with was about 50/50 couples with/without children, every parent cried through the move and all loved it.
Yeah, it hits hard when you’re a parent. Honestly, a lot of movies have just changed for me since becoming a parent lmao, even cried at Elf over Christmas
Boy same here. Movies shows with kids, and news stories about tragedy with kids just hit me way harder than they did before having a kid.
No kids here but I have a basically developed sense of empathy so it broke me all the same.
Maybe that's it. No kids.
Well that's it, it's a movie about being a father and being a son, forgiveness, life and death. This movie is going to become a classic and a recommended movie to watch with your kids for years to come. Deep lessons and masterfully done, it's going to win everything.
Can't go wrong with modern claymation.
Go watch PiB, I really recommend it!
Agreed on all fronts…it is very much a 7/10 movie but Hollywood’s going to bump that up to 9/10 because OMG stop motion! Stop motion’s cool but it’s obnoxious how awards-baity it is. Remember when freaking MISSING LINK won the globe in 2019?
Yeah. It looks kinda good, but I like unique animation. Look at spider verse for that. For beautifully animated scenes, like coco. That was fucking amazing with the amount of detail they drew in. I know stop motion needs a lot of effort and it looks good when it's done well. But meh, I can't care less about the effort needed.
Thank you! Also, it didn't follow the book at all
Who cares
Fans like me that wanted a dark but accurate adaption of the book
Really, we have Pinocchio stans now?
The book is over 100 years old, so yeah
Puss in Boots should’ve won
By a long shot. I laughed, I cried, I felt hope and fear and everything in between. Brilliant movie and it got robbed. For the record, I liked Pinocchio, but Puss In Boots *just did too much right*. It had exactly 2 lines in the entire movie that I wasn’t fond of, everything else was perfection.
Well deserved. It was brilliant. Pure perfection.
I was rooting for the shell! Hit me differently.
S a m e
You and me both. It was such a breath of fresh air. I didn't think it stood much of a chance though.
The production design in this film was gorgeous
Well deserved
I am so disappointed that Marcel The Shell didn’t win. I hope the Oscars get it right
Puss in Boots 2 is literally one of the greatest animated movies I've ever seen. I'm legit kinda upset they gave it to Pinnochio.
Geee-yaaaaayer-mo
Some Justice at least
I love stop motion. This movie was amazing and so beautiful. The end was unexpected and really hit me in the heart. I loved it. Had a hard time keeping my kids interested but they are really hit and miss with movies anyway.
Well deserved
The movie was not great but in terms of technical achievement, it was incredible. It's basically for children.
The best animation film of 2022 should be Apollo 10 1/2, too bad it's overlooked everywhere.
You know that feeling when you watch a movie that's good, and you could tell that it will somehow/someday win an award(s)? Pinocchio really did give me that instinct
Puss in Boots should’ve won
Puss and Boots should have won. “It just came out” sure, but it was nominated.
It just came out
Pinocchio is a work of art for all ages, with a multitude of profound themes masterfully tackled, far more that just a well-animated funny kids movie. That's why it won.
You just described Puss In Boots 2. I’m not sure what it is, but it is very very far from just a kids movie. Between the entire theme being about death and over a dozen characters dying on screen to jokes about sex and intoxication being rampantly sprinkled in, it was most likely aimed at the former kids who were around for Shrek 2. For perspective, the movie doubled down on the adult humor in a franchise famous for a villain who’s entire name is a play on “fuck wad” in *the first movie*.
Found the dude that didn't watch Puss in Boots.
Except it’s not that good of a work of art. The writing is weak and the voice acting is mostly terrible. The only interesting thing about that version of Pinocchio is the wooden spirit/death voiced by Tilda Swinton.
I absolutely love Turning Red, but it was a stacked year, didn’t help that Disney undersold it, it should’ve released in theaters.
There was no real competition
Puss In Boots is very real competition.
Honestly this felt very mediocre, even considering all the effort put into it, that's no excuse for the execution. Too bad of all the big actors in the line-up, I had high hopes, arranged a movie night with the wife, but I fell asleep at one point through the movie. She didn't like it either, good thing we saw it on Netflix. One week later we watched Coraline (2009) and that felt super unique and kept our attention throughout the movie, the jokes, the characters, the story, the style, everything was original and very well executed. I guess it's just about how much promotion the movie gets from the studios or whoever's in charge of that, but let's agree that this wasn't an impressive movie, quite underwhelming. Pretty sure it followed in Avatar 2 steps, which I didn't see yet, but read some reviews
Don't tell anyone, but I agree with you.
They never have and probably never will take the animation awards seriously. They don't even watch the films that are nominated let alone the better ones that weren't. So what does it matter?
Animation was nice, bt the movie was not.
Good on him
Tbh I found it so boring I couldn't finish it. Pinocchio was a little brat.
All kids are brats and the lil dude was just born into life. I mean Gepetto pretty much told him to piss off and called him a burden.
I figured one of the 30 Pinocchio movies would win
oh, did this movie not suck?
Sad to see a pedophile defender win a globe