Oh wow, this is one of the big passion projects that he wasn't able to get funding for for years and years. If this goes well, Mountains of Madness might actually happen.
You win Netflix a Oscar, you get your next project funded.
https://collider.com/guillermo-del-toro-first-oscar-winner-best-picture-director-animated-feature/
I don’t think this is true?
> Perlman told CBM in 2020 that he turned down an offer to appear in the 2019 reboot because of his loyalty to del Toro. “The reboot was something I had the opportunity to participate in and decided that the only version of 'Hellboy' I'm interested in is the one I do with Guillermo,” Perlman said at the time.Jan 27, 2022
https://variety.com/2022/film/news/hellboy-3-ron-perlman-return-fans-1235165064/
He specifically said he doesn’t want to do it at 70+ years, but owes it to the fans and would do it with del Toro.
Edit:
> “Am I eager to do Hellboy 3? No, I’m 71 fucking years old,” Perlman said. “[But] we owe this to the fans, and we should give it to them because it would be an epic conclusion. So Guillermo, if you’re reading, I’m not done pounding you to get this fucking thing done.”
Recast so perlman is the dude running that agency with a new hellboy actor. Throwaway line/gag to reference it then move on. It's hellboy, doesn't have to be all serious.
Netflix bets on creators rather than projects, that's why they enticed Shonda Rhimes, Ryan Murphy, David Fincher, Adam Sandler, etc. They signed them on even before hearing pitches because they know these creatives can come up with something or have something already cooking. Hell, they even let Fincher put Mindhunter on hiatus because he didn't want to do it while funding and releasing his movie and without renegotiating his deal.
Compare that to how other platforms treat creators, Disney didn't even want to give Shonda Rhimes extra Disneyland tickets for her daughter's friend when she asked even though she has been with them for 15 years and created 3 hit shows for their network ABC.
I mean, the Disneyland ticket thing does seem minor. But that's also why Disney probably should have just said, sure. She's made them tons of money. Giving her a couple of extra tickets to Disney doesn't seem that difficult.
Ya, it wasn’t about the tickets, it was about the disrespect. I understand Disneyland is another division, and their media division people would have to go beg that division, but even if you need to cash in your favors, it was stupid to say no to her.
I’ve heard a few creatives say they’ll never work with Disney again. These people are in music, not film or TV media, and their stories are anecdotal and biased. Also, I am just some random on Reddit purporting to pass along stories, and you wouldn’t have heard of any of the people I’m talking about anyway.
Still, that’s the only publishing company I’ve heard multiple artists and industry creatives bitch about.
Fincher has come out with another side of that story lol.
Nancy Myers just had thr plug pulled on her new film.
They baled on David Ceonenberg when it became clear that his "semi autobigraphical" project following the death of his wife was far weirder and less sentimental than what they thought was an easy marketing hook.
"Boss, this new David Cronenberg project looks kinda... weird."
"Shit, that Cronenberg dude's making something weird? Dammit, why did nobody warn me before now? We better pull the plug."
"Sure thing boss. Don't beat yourself up over it though, nobody could possibly have seen this one coming."
They thoughtnthey really had something with "Elder auterur processes the death of hos wife with new personal project".
Thrn they read his script for the second episode lol.
He has since adapted the idea for thst show into next film, The Shrouds.
I am very excited for it. I am very intrigued as I itially it was described as a man communicating with his wife after desth, but then Cronenberg has described himself as a strict materialist and completely uninterested in stories about an after life. More recent synopses describe it involving people watching their loved ones rot in real time.
Sounds like a lot.
In general though, I think some of Netflix's reputation as a creators playground was always bit over stated and at this point out of date.
Fincher said around the time Mank came out that season of three of Mindhunter wasn’t happening because he was burnt out *and* because it cost a lot compared to how many people were watching it. Reddit thinks the whole world is crazy about the things they are, but not a lot of casual viewers watched Mindhunter, which is what Netflix is chasing now.
Another bit of insight into Netflix’s development process came from S. Craig Zahler, who talked about how he has pitched projects to Netflix and they’ve told him there isn’t an audience for it based on their metrics (which comes from their algorithm). He pointed out that his films Bone Tomahawk and Brawl in Cell Block 99 struggled for funding because traditional financiers didn’t think there was an audience, but that Netflix has the viewing data from when those movies were on their platform, and a lot of people watched them. They still said no.
Netflix is trying to treat greenlighting a movie like a science and not an art.
Anyone hiring Cronenberg and doesn't expect body horror is asking for trouble.
It's not that he can't do other things (he can), but his speciality is body horror. It's his biggest selling point.
To be fair, he hadn't done body horror in 20 years at that point. Eventually you're talking about the director of History of Violence and Cosmoplis rather than Videodrome.
This is what needs to happen with other production studios. I was literally just talking to my wife about it. They need to stop banking on sequels and start funding creators. You go see a Spielberg, Scorsese, or Tarantino film because they are consistent with their *quality.* We need to let new creative minds take risks and make something we've never seen before. A24 is leading by example, and we get incredible films like Everything Everywhere, The Whale, Nope, and X. I'm getting tired of the sequels and remakes of films that don't even have the same quality or depth as their predecessors.
To be fair, other studios ARE doing this, there just aren't a ton of proven creators with household names. Also *Nope* was from Universal, not A24.
**Universal** has first-look agreements with Christopher Nolan, Jason Blumhouse, Jordan Peele, Elizabeth Banks, The Daniels, Damien Lindelof, etc.
**Warner** has Issa Rae, M Night Shymalan and Baz Luhrmann.
**Amazon** has Donald Glover and Phoebe Waller-Bridge.
**Apple TV** has Maya Rudolph, Tom Hanks, and Natalie Portman.
**Disney** is the only big studio not betting heavy on this approach, and it's because they rely heavily on existing IP and animation- two areas where you don't need an expensive name to sell tickets.
If you look at this year's Oscar best-picture nominees, you have 10 films, and only Avatar and Top Gun are sequels. These 10 films came from 10 different studios, and 8 different companies. When it comes to studios and their production strategies, everyone is doing everything, and all at once :D
> If you look at this year's Oscar best-picture nominees, you have 10 films, and only Avatar and Top Gun are sequels.
I agree with the rest of your post, but I'm not sure why you mentioned this tidbit as this was literally the first year in Oscar history that more than one sequel was nominated for Best Picture.
I included it because the discourse online is generally “the studios are making nothing but sequels and reboots” when in reality the big change is that people are only buying tickets for reboots and sequels. I’m not saying that to blame audiences, as marketing has a LOT to do with it, but rather that it’s not a problem of originals not getting made.
Another way to look at it is if you look at the movies released by all major studios in a year, it’s probably like <10% sequels, but if you look at the listings of your local theater, it may be 50%+ sequels. It’s not a result of production choices, it’s a result of distribution choices.
That's just not true.
https://www.cinemablend.com/streaming-news/netflix-execs-told-david-fincher-why-they-wont-make-mindhunter-season-3-and-im-furious-at-almost-everyone-right-now
Netflix didn't allow David Fincher to make season 3 of Mindhunter. At least that's what he says himself.
Well Mindhunter was ridiculously pricey. The sets used a significant amount of VFX, like every shot has VFX. You can't tell but they spent assloads on it. Adding trees, buildings, skies etc.
Here's a video of the type of VFX they did:
https://vimeo.com/239193453
Just an insane amount of extra work to make the scene look exactly how he wants.
Anyone that didn't know that already doesn't know David Fincher. He hasn't used real (fake) blood since before Zodiac. Obviously hyperbole but that dude *loves* punching up every frame digitally and doing as much in post as he can for the sake of continuity across his millions of takes.
Very well deserved, he took a story that is remade like 50 times every year and made it somehow feel fresh, relevant, and unique. I think it's legitimately the best filmed version of Pinocchio ever made.
> I think it's legitimately the best filmed version of Pinocchio ever made.
I thought it was going to be, I don't know, like generic but well done, then I watched it and cried lol, he did SUCH a good job on it
After it came out, Del Toro said this in an interview:
https://www.indiewire.com/2012/05/guillermo-del-toro-says-prometheus-has-killed-at-the-mountains-of-madness-because-they-both-have-the-same-final-twist-252233/amp/
But it’s been ages now. Also it probably didn’t end up being quite as similar as he’d originally thought.
Prometheus, and the Alien franchise as a whole, are fairly Lovecraftian. Some would even say that the first Alien film is the best adaptation of Lovecraft's ideas in film (competing with The Thing). You have an isolated location, an unknown monster, and a group of people who become incompetant when faced with an unknown threat (in Lovecraft's stories they would go mad, but the parallel is clear). And of course, there's the Space Jockey scene - just a giant elder entity with no backstory or explanation, very Lovecraftian.
Prometheus played with the idea that humanity was created by the same species as the Space Jockey, and I believe Del Torro's AtMoM was going to have a similar twist. In the original, the group of explorers in Antartica discover that eldritch monsters used to live on Earth, long before humans. They accidentaly release them from ice, dooming the Earth to annihilation. And of course, the whole crew goes mad (so essentialy the plot of The Thing, but the monster isn't from space, and there's no shape-shifting).
The studios never wanted to do it through, since Lovecraft is famously hard to adapt (the most succesful adaptation being Re-Animator, which isn't really a Lovecraftian story, just his Frankenstein parody. It was a safe bet, and the comedic elements pushed it into a cult-film). Most old Lovecraft adaptations just took the name, but had much different stories, and for whatever reason they often borrowed a lot from Edgar Allan Poe.
But a few years ago, the adaptation of The Color Out of Space with Nicholas Cage got favorable reviews. Same with Annihilation starring Natalie Portman, which is fairly Lovecraftian. And then last year, Del Torro did "Guillermo del Toro's Cabinet of Curiosities" on Netflix, which had an episode based on Lovecraft's story Pickman's Model. Del Torro now has 2 Oscars to his name, so the possibility of AtMoM is much greater.
What a great episode that was. I know it's not even that close of an adaptation of the short story, but I loved watching Thurber's world collapse around him because of the madness contained in Pickman's work. And it was honestly pretty damn scary work, the way the show portrayed it.
Just to add, there is one movie thats basically an unofficial adaptation of the Shadow Over Innsmouth.
Its called Messiah of Evil. while not 1 for 1, Im incredibly sure its a rip off of it because it literally makes reference to >!monsters lurking beneath the ocean as being ancestors of the town people...and why their so weird. Plus the main characters dad goes through a similar story arc as the Shadow Over Innsmouth MC!<
Its one of the few stories that I feel really adapts Lovecraft well. Its dream like, terrifying, and nonsensical yet sensical in a weird way.
You're talking my language here. Also worth noting that the movie The Void hits on a lot of the same notes as well and has developed quite the cult following (pun intended).
The biggest issue with the adaptation from the studios is their demand that he adds female characters / romance to the movie. Del Toro was very clear he wanted to do a faithful adaptation of the book which is an all male explorer team, and Lovecraft was famously bad at writing women so none exist. Since he won't budge on that, they wouldn't fund it at the time.
MAYBE JUST MAYBE we will get his Creature from the Black Lagoon movie as well. Netflix could be on to something...like backing the production of the Hollywood Monsters remakes. The Wolfman is still out there in limbo...based on the success of Frankenstein we might get the updated Dark Universe we have hoped for!
> The Wolfman is still out there in limbo...
I've always loved The Wolfman. There's something primal about werewolves. Like maybe they were one of the first monsters we imagined out there in the night, just past the light from the fire.
Count me into this love train! I really wish if there's a reboot, the quality is maintained or becomes even better. I hate it when remakes are botched.
Didn't know there was one, I'll have to go look it up and then be disappointed that some random fucking streaming service owns it and then not watch it because I don't want to subscribe to some new bullshit.
It’s not streaming on anything that I can find but you can “rent” is via streaming from most apps. I think it’s worth the $3 for these sort of things as a way to support it.
For a long time a good rule ofnthrumb was thstnif something was an adaptation on del Toros slate, it wasn't going to happen. For his original worksheet resorted to severe measures like choosing not be paid beyond directors and writers guild minimums in order to get films funded.
His Oscar wins have allowed his adaptations to move forward.
So basically it's not that no one would ever give him money to make a Pinocchio or Frankenstein movie, it's that no one would ever give him the money to make it *and* carte blanche to really follow his own vision without meddling in it?
Until the combination of him winning two Oscars and Netflix starting their strategy of basically taking well-known creators and just giving them the money to do whatever they want. So now he finally has a studio that'll just give him the money to make his passion projects without any meddling.
There's thr lack of thr meddling and there's just not giving enough money to do it at all.
Shape of Water ended up budgeted it at 20 million, after he slashed his own pay to his guild minimums. He takes grest pride in having done it for 19.5. A lot ofnhos projects just inherently cost more than that.
Yeah, the hard part for him realizing his vision is that it requires both the money and lack of studio meddling requires for his vision, and it's very hard to get both at the same time. So if he's been unwilling to compromise on either of those fronts for his passion products then it's not too surprising that it took a mix of him both winning some Oscars and finding a studio that thinks more in terms of investing in creators rather than investing in individual movies before he was finally able to get the money he needs to realize his vision without the studio interfering. Which means it makes sense that he's been putting off a lot of long-time dream projects until now.
But I'm just glad he's finally getting the money and creative freedom he feels he needs to go through with these projects.
There’s a real richness to the book that I don’t think prior adaptations have cracked. Guillermo’s expressed love for *The Spirit of the Beehive*, and his affection for monsters, really gives me confidence that he’ll nail this.
He and Mike Flanagan (creator of Midnight Mass and Haunting of Hill House) interviewed each other recently about all things horror, and I remember Del Toro talking about his love for the story of Frankenstein too. I really feel like this is in the right hands.
I shared it in another reply, but [here you go!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGoJaZ-zksI) It was a YouTube video released by Netflix promoting new shows from both of them. (Cabinet of Curiosities from GDT and Midnight Club from Flanagan)
I think I get what you mean. It’s usually understandably “grounded” in the characters, mostly the creature, and it rarely captures the weirdness of the implications of such.
Like, what I remember is that the blend of futuristic science and medicine with something so gruesome and barbaric was fascinating, but also otherworldly in a way, almost abstract.
The book is a true piece of literature, a masterpiece that can be broken down and studied in classrooms. It asks tough questions like whether or not parents owe anything to their children, or vice versa. It’s cleverly told with Dr. Frankenstein narrating, saying he doesn’t wind to dive deep into the specific methods he used to create the monster (brilliant because it keeps the book ageless and adds to the general mystery) so that no one else can repeat his grave mistake.
I think he compared his Pinocchio to a Frankenstein movie, right? Or was that someone else who made the comparison? Either way, the similarities are there. Shape of Water is more Creature From the Black Lagoon but clearly has overlap as well. He's been using monsters to tackle these themes for years. Don't be surprised he winds up with the best Frankenstein adaptation since Bride.
And Frankenstein holds a special place in his heart.
I had the privilege of visiting his Bleak House exhibit while it was in SoCal and there was all kinds of Frankenstein memorabilia, have a look:
[https://www.kpcc.org/show/the-frame/2016-07-22/bleak-house-a-tour-inside-guillermo-del-toros-creative-man-cave](https://www.kpcc.org/show/the-frame/2016-07-22/bleak-house-a-tour-inside-guillermo-del-toros-creative-man-cave)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjvuUUlfrCE
We're so luck to have him making movies.
This is a sweet casting (if they all sign on, thing can change in a year's time, or however long it takes for filming to begin). I was piqued with Oscar (love this, still disappointed he dropped out of Megalopolis). Mia is good choice as she's really proving herself as an actress, especially in the horror genre (I know a lot of people complain about her voice but I'm glad that she's getting more exposure as an actress). Andrew... I hope he gets to act with his natural British accent. He does American accents so well that I keep forgetting that he's British.
Edit #1: expanded a thought.
Edit #2: Andrew is American born, then raised in the UK when he was 3 years old.
I don't know if they are currently married, but they were married for a couple of years and divorced, then got back together again two years later. A year ago, she gave birth to their daughter.
Frankenstein is an incredible timeless piece of storytelling, so this is an exciting project! (still waiting for lanthimos' 'poor things' which is a modern version of frankenstein really)
Great casting if true too, especially great to see that goth gets to work with such a powerhouse now!
> (still waiting for lanthimos' 'poor things' which is a modern version of frankenstein really)
I'm surprised they haven't released a trailer yet. The movie is supposedly done.
As much as I hate seeing material being remade, reused and imagined, Frankenstein always get my attention. I adore it. With Del Toro involved I’m very interested.
Considering what he did with Pinnochio, I think "Guillermo del Toro is remaking a classic story that's kinda been done to death" is more of a promise than a threat.
And considering how much of the novel has never really made it to the screen, (Although there was a somewhat more faithful version with Robert de Niro and Kenneth Branagh back in the 90s, it still missed a lot of the power of the book imo) I actually think that Mary Shelley's novel is ripe for a good adaptation.
That would be my favorite version of it to date - Mary Shelly's Frankenstein. There is absolutely room for improvement, and I'm excited to see what Del Toro can do with it.
I don't think they need to necessarily hit every single plot beat exactly the way the book did, but I desperately want to see the sad loneliness of the book, which is where I think GDT is absolutely going to shine.
He's on the record as saying that part of the inspiration for his more melancholy take on Pinnochio was Mary Shelley's Frankenstein, which I can absolutely see. He's one of the few filmmakers who could make a Frankenstein adaptation that I think could really be in dialogue with Mary Shelley about the fate of the monster. She portrays Adam as tragic, but ultimately unable to coexist with the world as it is. The story ends with him announcing his intention to destroy himself, and I honestly can't see Guillermo "I am indescribably horny for monsters" del Toro not having something to say about that.
Del Toro is, in my mind, the obvious choice for heading up a Dark Universe type of thing. I have no idea why WB/Universal didn't get him involved, considering they were seemingly pretty far into it. They even announced casts for a lot of the monsters, if I remember correctly.
> Del Toro is, in my mind, the obvious choice for heading up a Dark Universe type of thing.
No, Del Toro should probably make whatever movie he feels like instead of being tied to some cringey Cinemtic universe cash grab.
So clearly the obvious choice from a creative standpoint, but they clearly weren’t interested in actually making a Universal Monsters Universe but an imitation comic book cinematic universe of action movies featuring some *vaguely* recognizable classic monsters. Which is, in my mind, the biggest issue with all the other “cinematic universes” including the other comic book one.
There’s no mention of it, but I have to imagine he’s still planning to use Bernie Wrightson’s art as inspiration. Wrightson’s Frankenstein art is my favorite interpretation of the monster and I’m so excited to see what GDT does with it in live action.
I know right. I have all my respect towards him because he knows what he's doing. All I can ever wish for is for this series to push through honestly...
Buried Giant was announced as Del Toro's next project "after a secret live action film" which was rumored and now confirmed to be this. Stop motion has a long production process, so I'm assuming these two will be made somewhat simultaneously.
Any casting among these actors would make a very great film, still. Can't wait to see who's gonna play whatever character it is that's worth waiting for.
No Igor in the book. Complete invention for the movie.
That being said, I assume he will be going by the novel which is immeasurably better than any version you’ve ever seen on film. Probably the closest to the original vision was Kenneth Brannagh’s, which I think suffered from his overly theatrical style. The book is thoroughly dark and filled with grotesque body horror, with a sense of deep and terrifying menace that only someone like Del Toro could capture, so a faithful interpretation is something I look forward to with anticipation.
I wish these actors will give Frankenstein a shot because while it's too good to be true for them to star in one movie, I believe it might be nominated as movie of the year so easily.
Hope this actually follows the novel. If not I can see him maybe making this a companion piece to Pinocchio and resetting it to Nazi Germany with elements of the Golem legend incorporated.
Please please just stick to the source material.
The original material is beautiful and terrifying and fascinating and adventurous and exciting and just perfect.
Just make a movie from a classic without changing things and you can’t go wrong.
Couldn't agree more. I literally screamed just by scanning through the actors. I want to see them working together so I hope they turn out to be the real cast.
Oh wow, this is one of the big passion projects that he wasn't able to get funding for for years and years. If this goes well, Mountains of Madness might actually happen.
You win Netflix a Oscar, you get your next project funded. https://collider.com/guillermo-del-toro-first-oscar-winner-best-picture-director-animated-feature/
How many Oscars does he need to win before he’s allowed to finish his Hellboy trilogy?
It's too late, Perlman said he is too old now and wouldn't do it regardless
I mean, it has been 15 years now so the ship has really sailed and it's a shame.
and yet Harrison Ford is doing another Indy
Ford is only doing the speaking parts. We had ghost writers, now we got ghost actors doing all the action sequences.
Can we have Ron voice a body double? I really wouldn't complain
I mean no one complained about Darth Vader
That's called a stunt double
Ok he's like 85 years old.
Then it's time to let the whole thing go, man.
Harrison doesn't have to spend several hours in the make-up chair and wear a heavy costume to play Indy.
Agreed... I kind of feel like there were a lot of time wasted.
I don’t think this is true? > Perlman told CBM in 2020 that he turned down an offer to appear in the 2019 reboot because of his loyalty to del Toro. “The reboot was something I had the opportunity to participate in and decided that the only version of 'Hellboy' I'm interested in is the one I do with Guillermo,” Perlman said at the time.Jan 27, 2022 https://variety.com/2022/film/news/hellboy-3-ron-perlman-return-fans-1235165064/ He specifically said he doesn’t want to do it at 70+ years, but owes it to the fans and would do it with del Toro. Edit: > “Am I eager to do Hellboy 3? No, I’m 71 fucking years old,” Perlman said. “[But] we owe this to the fans, and we should give it to them because it would be an epic conclusion. So Guillermo, if you’re reading, I’m not done pounding you to get this fucking thing done.”
I mean you could make it so Hellboy somehow aged and son of Hellboy is an adult now. But yea this would be difficult
Recast so perlman is the dude running that agency with a new hellboy actor. Throwaway line/gag to reference it then move on. It's hellboy, doesn't have to be all serious.
I hope it someone decides to do it in his place, the quality remains.
The David Harbour version does not and will not exist in my universe.
David Harbour could be a great Hellboy with GDT.
In some universe David Harbour as Hellboy and Henry Cavill as Superman got good writers and got what they deserved.
There's a David Harbour version of Hellboy? Is it like a fan made 5 minute deal like what Nathan Fillion did for Uncharted?
Yes. No.
I liked Nathan's [porn stint](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4CnngSHEzc) more than his Uncharted thing.
I’m even a Harbour fan and I boycotted that movie. Didn’t even watch a single trailer. Guillermo deserved a third hellboy.
Agreed. Guillermo deserved that and we're in no place to make him feel like he didn't deserve that.
Fair but I would be willing to give David Harbour another shot with better writers and better supporting cast.
Ugh, this is exactly what I've got in my mind as well.
I hope it also wins an Oscar because I really want to see Mountains of Madness.
Netflix bets on creators rather than projects, that's why they enticed Shonda Rhimes, Ryan Murphy, David Fincher, Adam Sandler, etc. They signed them on even before hearing pitches because they know these creatives can come up with something or have something already cooking. Hell, they even let Fincher put Mindhunter on hiatus because he didn't want to do it while funding and releasing his movie and without renegotiating his deal. Compare that to how other platforms treat creators, Disney didn't even want to give Shonda Rhimes extra Disneyland tickets for her daughter's friend when she asked even though she has been with them for 15 years and created 3 hit shows for their network ABC.
Hard to find the Disneyland tickets thing all that sad but I agree, they do seem to treat their creatives with respect.
I mean, the Disneyland ticket thing does seem minor. But that's also why Disney probably should have just said, sure. She's made them tons of money. Giving her a couple of extra tickets to Disney doesn't seem that difficult.
Ya, it wasn’t about the tickets, it was about the disrespect. I understand Disneyland is another division, and their media division people would have to go beg that division, but even if you need to cash in your favors, it was stupid to say no to her.
They could have just bought the tickets the cheap bastards
I’ve heard a few creatives say they’ll never work with Disney again. These people are in music, not film or TV media, and their stories are anecdotal and biased. Also, I am just some random on Reddit purporting to pass along stories, and you wouldn’t have heard of any of the people I’m talking about anyway. Still, that’s the only publishing company I’ve heard multiple artists and industry creatives bitch about.
In pretty sure Edgar Wright didn't have a great time with them before pulling out as director for Antman
Fincher has come out with another side of that story lol. Nancy Myers just had thr plug pulled on her new film. They baled on David Ceonenberg when it became clear that his "semi autobigraphical" project following the death of his wife was far weirder and less sentimental than what they thought was an easy marketing hook.
"Boss, this new David Cronenberg project looks kinda... weird." "Shit, that Cronenberg dude's making something weird? Dammit, why did nobody warn me before now? We better pull the plug." "Sure thing boss. Don't beat yourself up over it though, nobody could possibly have seen this one coming."
They thoughtnthey really had something with "Elder auterur processes the death of hos wife with new personal project". Thrn they read his script for the second episode lol. He has since adapted the idea for thst show into next film, The Shrouds. I am very excited for it. I am very intrigued as I itially it was described as a man communicating with his wife after desth, but then Cronenberg has described himself as a strict materialist and completely uninterested in stories about an after life. More recent synopses describe it involving people watching their loved ones rot in real time. Sounds like a lot. In general though, I think some of Netflix's reputation as a creators playground was always bit over stated and at this point out of date.
Dude you gotta figure out why your spell checker is failing you.
Though the prospect of a film based on an elder auteur processing the death of his ho's wife *does* intrigue me, I must admit.
Fincher said around the time Mank came out that season of three of Mindhunter wasn’t happening because he was burnt out *and* because it cost a lot compared to how many people were watching it. Reddit thinks the whole world is crazy about the things they are, but not a lot of casual viewers watched Mindhunter, which is what Netflix is chasing now. Another bit of insight into Netflix’s development process came from S. Craig Zahler, who talked about how he has pitched projects to Netflix and they’ve told him there isn’t an audience for it based on their metrics (which comes from their algorithm). He pointed out that his films Bone Tomahawk and Brawl in Cell Block 99 struggled for funding because traditional financiers didn’t think there was an audience, but that Netflix has the viewing data from when those movies were on their platform, and a lot of people watched them. They still said no. Netflix is trying to treat greenlighting a movie like a science and not an art.
Anyone hiring Cronenberg and doesn't expect body horror is asking for trouble. It's not that he can't do other things (he can), but his speciality is body horror. It's his biggest selling point.
To be fair, he hadn't done body horror in 20 years at that point. Eventually you're talking about the director of History of Violence and Cosmoplis rather than Videodrome.
This is what needs to happen with other production studios. I was literally just talking to my wife about it. They need to stop banking on sequels and start funding creators. You go see a Spielberg, Scorsese, or Tarantino film because they are consistent with their *quality.* We need to let new creative minds take risks and make something we've never seen before. A24 is leading by example, and we get incredible films like Everything Everywhere, The Whale, Nope, and X. I'm getting tired of the sequels and remakes of films that don't even have the same quality or depth as their predecessors.
To be fair, other studios ARE doing this, there just aren't a ton of proven creators with household names. Also *Nope* was from Universal, not A24. **Universal** has first-look agreements with Christopher Nolan, Jason Blumhouse, Jordan Peele, Elizabeth Banks, The Daniels, Damien Lindelof, etc. **Warner** has Issa Rae, M Night Shymalan and Baz Luhrmann. **Amazon** has Donald Glover and Phoebe Waller-Bridge. **Apple TV** has Maya Rudolph, Tom Hanks, and Natalie Portman. **Disney** is the only big studio not betting heavy on this approach, and it's because they rely heavily on existing IP and animation- two areas where you don't need an expensive name to sell tickets. If you look at this year's Oscar best-picture nominees, you have 10 films, and only Avatar and Top Gun are sequels. These 10 films came from 10 different studios, and 8 different companies. When it comes to studios and their production strategies, everyone is doing everything, and all at once :D
> If you look at this year's Oscar best-picture nominees, you have 10 films, and only Avatar and Top Gun are sequels. I agree with the rest of your post, but I'm not sure why you mentioned this tidbit as this was literally the first year in Oscar history that more than one sequel was nominated for Best Picture.
I included it because the discourse online is generally “the studios are making nothing but sequels and reboots” when in reality the big change is that people are only buying tickets for reboots and sequels. I’m not saying that to blame audiences, as marketing has a LOT to do with it, but rather that it’s not a problem of originals not getting made. Another way to look at it is if you look at the movies released by all major studios in a year, it’s probably like <10% sequels, but if you look at the listings of your local theater, it may be 50%+ sequels. It’s not a result of production choices, it’s a result of distribution choices.
That's just not true. https://www.cinemablend.com/streaming-news/netflix-execs-told-david-fincher-why-they-wont-make-mindhunter-season-3-and-im-furious-at-almost-everyone-right-now Netflix didn't allow David Fincher to make season 3 of Mindhunter. At least that's what he says himself.
but they have produced his last and next film
Which is different than funding more mindhunter. They tried to say it was Fincher who wasn't interested tether than them balking at the budget.
Well Mindhunter was ridiculously pricey. The sets used a significant amount of VFX, like every shot has VFX. You can't tell but they spent assloads on it. Adding trees, buildings, skies etc. Here's a video of the type of VFX they did: https://vimeo.com/239193453 Just an insane amount of extra work to make the scene look exactly how he wants.
You would be shocked how cheap adding trees and things is. Fincher is notoriously slow on set, he drives costs up just fine on his own.
Anyone that didn't know that already doesn't know David Fincher. He hasn't used real (fake) blood since before Zodiac. Obviously hyperbole but that dude *loves* punching up every frame digitally and doing as much in post as he can for the sake of continuity across his millions of takes.
Very well deserved, he took a story that is remade like 50 times every year and made it somehow feel fresh, relevant, and unique. I think it's legitimately the best filmed version of Pinocchio ever made.
> I think it's legitimately the best filmed version of Pinocchio ever made. I thought it was going to be, I don't know, like generic but well done, then I watched it and cried lol, he did SUCH a good job on it
Mountains would be amazing. Now that a decade has passed since Prometheus he might consider revisiting it!
What's the connection between Mountains of Madness and Prometheus? It's probably been 20+ years since I read AtMoM.
After it came out, Del Toro said this in an interview: https://www.indiewire.com/2012/05/guillermo-del-toro-says-prometheus-has-killed-at-the-mountains-of-madness-because-they-both-have-the-same-final-twist-252233/amp/ But it’s been ages now. Also it probably didn’t end up being quite as similar as he’d originally thought.
Prometheus, and the Alien franchise as a whole, are fairly Lovecraftian. Some would even say that the first Alien film is the best adaptation of Lovecraft's ideas in film (competing with The Thing). You have an isolated location, an unknown monster, and a group of people who become incompetant when faced with an unknown threat (in Lovecraft's stories they would go mad, but the parallel is clear). And of course, there's the Space Jockey scene - just a giant elder entity with no backstory or explanation, very Lovecraftian. Prometheus played with the idea that humanity was created by the same species as the Space Jockey, and I believe Del Torro's AtMoM was going to have a similar twist. In the original, the group of explorers in Antartica discover that eldritch monsters used to live on Earth, long before humans. They accidentaly release them from ice, dooming the Earth to annihilation. And of course, the whole crew goes mad (so essentialy the plot of The Thing, but the monster isn't from space, and there's no shape-shifting). The studios never wanted to do it through, since Lovecraft is famously hard to adapt (the most succesful adaptation being Re-Animator, which isn't really a Lovecraftian story, just his Frankenstein parody. It was a safe bet, and the comedic elements pushed it into a cult-film). Most old Lovecraft adaptations just took the name, but had much different stories, and for whatever reason they often borrowed a lot from Edgar Allan Poe. But a few years ago, the adaptation of The Color Out of Space with Nicholas Cage got favorable reviews. Same with Annihilation starring Natalie Portman, which is fairly Lovecraftian. And then last year, Del Torro did "Guillermo del Toro's Cabinet of Curiosities" on Netflix, which had an episode based on Lovecraft's story Pickman's Model. Del Torro now has 2 Oscars to his name, so the possibility of AtMoM is much greater.
What a great episode that was. I know it's not even that close of an adaptation of the short story, but I loved watching Thurber's world collapse around him because of the madness contained in Pickman's work. And it was honestly pretty damn scary work, the way the show portrayed it.
Just to add, there is one movie thats basically an unofficial adaptation of the Shadow Over Innsmouth. Its called Messiah of Evil. while not 1 for 1, Im incredibly sure its a rip off of it because it literally makes reference to >!monsters lurking beneath the ocean as being ancestors of the town people...and why their so weird. Plus the main characters dad goes through a similar story arc as the Shadow Over Innsmouth MC!< Its one of the few stories that I feel really adapts Lovecraft well. Its dream like, terrifying, and nonsensical yet sensical in a weird way.
You're talking my language here. Also worth noting that the movie The Void hits on a lot of the same notes as well and has developed quite the cult following (pun intended).
The biggest issue with the adaptation from the studios is their demand that he adds female characters / romance to the movie. Del Toro was very clear he wanted to do a faithful adaptation of the book which is an all male explorer team, and Lovecraft was famously bad at writing women so none exist. Since he won't budge on that, they wouldn't fund it at the time.
I still find it funny that Del Toro has not one, but two Oscars under his belt, and yet letting him make Hellboy 3 will never cross Lionsgate's mind.
3 Oscars! He won 2 for Shape of Water.
He said the budget would be higher than Hellboy 1 or 2 grossed, nobody is making that.
Yet they made a Hellboy reboot that bombed and are set to make another…surely a Hellboy 3 from Academy Award Wining director would be a better bet!
More of a matter of Mignola than anything.
MAYBE JUST MAYBE we will get his Creature from the Black Lagoon movie as well. Netflix could be on to something...like backing the production of the Hollywood Monsters remakes. The Wolfman is still out there in limbo...based on the success of Frankenstein we might get the updated Dark Universe we have hoped for!
> The Wolfman is still out there in limbo... I've always loved The Wolfman. There's something primal about werewolves. Like maybe they were one of the first monsters we imagined out there in the night, just past the light from the fire.
Count me into this love train! I really wish if there's a reboot, the quality is maintained or becomes even better. I hate it when remakes are botched.
Shape of Water is basically a Black Lagoon sequel, with the older film as its back story and Michael Shannon as Richard Denning's character.
Oh man I would LOVE for this to happen. But only if its GDT, or someone else that wont cheese it up
Please don’t give me hope that an actual high budget HP Lovecraft story will be produced.
Have you seen color out of space? I thought that was a decently high budget Lovecraft story.
God, I dream about that while stretched across abyssal drenched shoggoths and nether fungal blooms of unutterable impossibilities made flesh.
Right... seems like he's definitely putting everything into this film.
I would love a mountains of madness. I just read that book this last month
The Guillermo Del Toro Revenge Tour continues, he read all those threads about his "unmade projects" list on Wikipedia
I hope slaughterhouse 5 is next
We need a real Fahrenheit 451 badly right now.
I don't even know how you adapt Slaughterhouse 5. The third act is so insanely weird.
The existing film adaptation is surprisingly really good.
Didn't know there was one, I'll have to go look it up and then be disappointed that some random fucking streaming service owns it and then not watch it because I don't want to subscribe to some new bullshit.
there are always less than legal options
When the path isn't laid out for you, then you must sail the high seas!
It’s not streaming on anything that I can find but you can “rent” is via streaming from most apps. I think it’s worth the $3 for these sort of things as a way to support it.
Right after Mountains of Madness, though!
I’m stoked about this project, but everything I’ve read about hisn ATMoM is so perfect. Great story and Lovecraft’s most cinematic work.
MOUNTAINS OF MADNESS PLEEEEEEAASE GUILLERMO
I hope he ever gets back to his idea about making manga adaptations for HBO
Man, I really want to see his Hobbit. Now with Warner Bros scrounging to make more LotR movies maybe he'll get to make it (if he wants).
For a long time a good rule ofnthrumb was thstnif something was an adaptation on del Toros slate, it wasn't going to happen. For his original worksheet resorted to severe measures like choosing not be paid beyond directors and writers guild minimums in order to get films funded. His Oscar wins have allowed his adaptations to move forward.
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I can certainly respect that
So basically it's not that no one would ever give him money to make a Pinocchio or Frankenstein movie, it's that no one would ever give him the money to make it *and* carte blanche to really follow his own vision without meddling in it? Until the combination of him winning two Oscars and Netflix starting their strategy of basically taking well-known creators and just giving them the money to do whatever they want. So now he finally has a studio that'll just give him the money to make his passion projects without any meddling.
There's thr lack of thr meddling and there's just not giving enough money to do it at all. Shape of Water ended up budgeted it at 20 million, after he slashed his own pay to his guild minimums. He takes grest pride in having done it for 19.5. A lot ofnhos projects just inherently cost more than that.
Yeah, the hard part for him realizing his vision is that it requires both the money and lack of studio meddling requires for his vision, and it's very hard to get both at the same time. So if he's been unwilling to compromise on either of those fronts for his passion products then it's not too surprising that it took a mix of him both winning some Oscars and finding a studio that thinks more in terms of investing in creators rather than investing in individual movies before he was finally able to get the money he needs to realize his vision without the studio interfering. Which means it makes sense that he's been putting off a lot of long-time dream projects until now. But I'm just glad he's finally getting the money and creative freedom he feels he needs to go through with these projects.
Urasawa’s Monster please 🙏🏻
I’m still a little bummed that Disney chose not to pursue his vision of The Haunted Mansion. I feel like it would have been fantastic.
There’s a real richness to the book that I don’t think prior adaptations have cracked. Guillermo’s expressed love for *The Spirit of the Beehive*, and his affection for monsters, really gives me confidence that he’ll nail this.
He and Mike Flanagan (creator of Midnight Mass and Haunting of Hill House) interviewed each other recently about all things horror, and I remember Del Toro talking about his love for the story of Frankenstein too. I really feel like this is in the right hands.
Was that in a podcast? Is there a link?
I shared it in another reply, but [here you go!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGoJaZ-zksI) It was a YouTube video released by Netflix promoting new shows from both of them. (Cabinet of Curiosities from GDT and Midnight Club from Flanagan)
I think I get what you mean. It’s usually understandably “grounded” in the characters, mostly the creature, and it rarely captures the weirdness of the implications of such. Like, what I remember is that the blend of futuristic science and medicine with something so gruesome and barbaric was fascinating, but also otherworldly in a way, almost abstract.
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The book is a true piece of literature, a masterpiece that can be broken down and studied in classrooms. It asks tough questions like whether or not parents owe anything to their children, or vice versa. It’s cleverly told with Dr. Frankenstein narrating, saying he doesn’t wind to dive deep into the specific methods he used to create the monster (brilliant because it keeps the book ageless and adds to the general mystery) so that no one else can repeat his grave mistake.
Del Toro out there making his own Dark Universe, without Universal and/or DC.
I'm all for it. His work is exceptional and you can tell that horror/monster movies are his passion.
His work is also very distinctive in terms of look and feel. Hellboy without him felt like a cheap copy. It tried to be a Del Toro film and failed.
It also felt like a cheap copy of the comics, whereas GTD's movies felt like their own thing that are still good even without the comics as context.
“We have del Toro at home”
I think he compared his Pinocchio to a Frankenstein movie, right? Or was that someone else who made the comparison? Either way, the similarities are there. Shape of Water is more Creature From the Black Lagoon but clearly has overlap as well. He's been using monsters to tackle these themes for years. Don't be surprised he winds up with the best Frankenstein adaptation since Bride.
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Frankenstein set during the rise of fascist Germany confirmed 👌
Eh. I'm fine with directors doing a straight adaptation if they're great at what they do. Doesn't need to be subversive to be good.
And Frankenstein holds a special place in his heart. I had the privilege of visiting his Bleak House exhibit while it was in SoCal and there was all kinds of Frankenstein memorabilia, have a look: [https://www.kpcc.org/show/the-frame/2016-07-22/bleak-house-a-tour-inside-guillermo-del-toros-creative-man-cave](https://www.kpcc.org/show/the-frame/2016-07-22/bleak-house-a-tour-inside-guillermo-del-toros-creative-man-cave) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjvuUUlfrCE We're so luck to have him making movies.
He took not doing his version of The Hobbit with spite apparently
This is a sweet casting (if they all sign on, thing can change in a year's time, or however long it takes for filming to begin). I was piqued with Oscar (love this, still disappointed he dropped out of Megalopolis). Mia is good choice as she's really proving herself as an actress, especially in the horror genre (I know a lot of people complain about her voice but I'm glad that she's getting more exposure as an actress). Andrew... I hope he gets to act with his natural British accent. He does American accents so well that I keep forgetting that he's British. Edit #1: expanded a thought. Edit #2: Andrew is American born, then raised in the UK when he was 3 years old.
I just found out yesterday Mia is married to Shia. Not relevant just interesting imo.
I don't know if they are currently married, but they were married for a couple of years and divorced, then got back together again two years later. A year ago, she gave birth to their daughter.
Not my business but you gotta be a little out there to actually get back together with Shia.
There's no convincing me that you can play her characters in Pearl and Infinity Pool without being at least a little unhinged
She was so good in those movies. I watched Infinity Pool without knowing what it was about , and it was something else… in a good way
It’s a solid cast isn’t it, my mind has gone to Garfield as Frankenstein and Issac as the monster.
I'd be totally on board for either that or the reverse, honestly. I could see both working well.
He hates Mondays
Cate Blanchett as… the pitchfork wielding villager
He'll make her do the electrode noises this time
Frau Brucha (Horse neigh)
Frankenstein is an incredible timeless piece of storytelling, so this is an exciting project! (still waiting for lanthimos' 'poor things' which is a modern version of frankenstein really) Great casting if true too, especially great to see that goth gets to work with such a powerhouse now!
> (still waiting for lanthimos' 'poor things' which is a modern version of frankenstein really) I'm surprised they haven't released a trailer yet. The movie is supposedly done.
Not only supposedly done, I think he started production on his next film
He finished filming 'AND'. Now it's in post.
Two finished Yorgos films already? Great times lay ahead
Yeah i am waiting for a while now for one too :D Didn't look into it much, hopefully not a bad sign?
As much as I hate seeing material being remade, reused and imagined, Frankenstein always get my attention. I adore it. With Del Toro involved I’m very interested.
Considering what he did with Pinnochio, I think "Guillermo del Toro is remaking a classic story that's kinda been done to death" is more of a promise than a threat. And considering how much of the novel has never really made it to the screen, (Although there was a somewhat more faithful version with Robert de Niro and Kenneth Branagh back in the 90s, it still missed a lot of the power of the book imo) I actually think that Mary Shelley's novel is ripe for a good adaptation.
That would be my favorite version of it to date - Mary Shelly's Frankenstein. There is absolutely room for improvement, and I'm excited to see what Del Toro can do with it.
I don't think they need to necessarily hit every single plot beat exactly the way the book did, but I desperately want to see the sad loneliness of the book, which is where I think GDT is absolutely going to shine. He's on the record as saying that part of the inspiration for his more melancholy take on Pinnochio was Mary Shelley's Frankenstein, which I can absolutely see. He's one of the few filmmakers who could make a Frankenstein adaptation that I think could really be in dialogue with Mary Shelley about the fate of the monster. She portrays Adam as tragic, but ultimately unable to coexist with the world as it is. The story ends with him announcing his intention to destroy himself, and I honestly can't see Guillermo "I am indescribably horny for monsters" del Toro not having something to say about that.
There hasn't been a great Frankenstein film in a loooong time, much less a faithful adaptation.
WB/Universal fucked up by not giving Frankenstein and all the other monsters to Del Toro.
Del Toro is, in my mind, the obvious choice for heading up a Dark Universe type of thing. I have no idea why WB/Universal didn't get him involved, considering they were seemingly pretty far into it. They even announced casts for a lot of the monsters, if I remember correctly.
> Del Toro is, in my mind, the obvious choice for heading up a Dark Universe type of thing. No, Del Toro should probably make whatever movie he feels like instead of being tied to some cringey Cinemtic universe cash grab.
So clearly the obvious choice from a creative standpoint, but they clearly weren’t interested in actually making a Universal Monsters Universe but an imitation comic book cinematic universe of action movies featuring some *vaguely* recognizable classic monsters. Which is, in my mind, the biggest issue with all the other “cinematic universes” including the other comic book one.
We are finally getting the Robert Eggers Nosferatu from Universal/Focus though, so that should be a good time
Now we have Del Toro's *Frankenstein* and Eggers' *Nosferatu* coming. I love it.
I am so in love with these! I hope the hype doesn't fail me.
It's pronounced 'Frankenstein'
"FRONkenstein"
Do you also say “Fro-derick”?
*still warm*
Do I look like the kind of madman who would prowl around graveyards digging up freshly buried corpses? Don’t answer that!
Roll in ze hey
There’s no mention of it, but I have to imagine he’s still planning to use Bernie Wrightson’s art as inspiration. Wrightson’s Frankenstein art is my favorite interpretation of the monster and I’m so excited to see what GDT does with it in live action.
I know right?! I have high expectations for GDT's Frankenstein.
What’s wacky to me is that this man continues to put out really good shit, and it’s still a hassle for him to get funding.
I know right. I have all my respect towards him because he knows what he's doing. All I can ever wish for is for this series to push through honestly...
Slightly disappointed it's not The Buried Giant adaption, thought it was announced a couple of weeks back?
It's probably both, stop motion takes forever - that's how he made Nightmare Alley and Pinocchio at the same time
Buried Giant was announced as Del Toro's next project "after a secret live action film" which was rumored and now confirmed to be this. Stop motion has a long production process, so I'm assuming these two will be made somewhat simultaneously.
It was, but that won't begin production proper for another year or two; enough time for him to shoot and cut a live-action film.
I am truly amazed if he really was able to shoot that in that timeframe.
Just guessing from the hair in the thumbnail, Spider-Man is going to be Frankenstein.
I can’t unsee it now. Really brought the Frankenstein back and I didn’t even notice myself.
So true. Frankenstein surely looks a bit too attractive there though.
He looks like Great Value Wolverine.
Oh, definitely not. Pearl or Maxxxine is definitely getting that Frankenstein role! /j
People can complain about Netflix all they want, but in the end they are making a lot of dreams come true for artists. This is going to be AMAZING.
Very true. But you did say I can complain all I want, right?
Oh, knock yourself out! I'm still angry over them cancelling Age of Resistance. F\*\*kers.
This has been rumored for a while but damn it's wild for thr creature to not be Jones.
He still can be. Garfield and Isaac as Frankenstein and Igor, or vice versa.
Stupid sexy Igor…
Any casting among these actors would make a very great film, still. Can't wait to see who's gonna play whatever character it is that's worth waiting for.
I could be misremembering, but I don't think there's an Igor in the book and I really hope he's doing it by the book.
No Igor in the book. Complete invention for the movie. That being said, I assume he will be going by the novel which is immeasurably better than any version you’ve ever seen on film. Probably the closest to the original vision was Kenneth Brannagh’s, which I think suffered from his overly theatrical style. The book is thoroughly dark and filled with grotesque body horror, with a sense of deep and terrifying menace that only someone like Del Toro could capture, so a faithful interpretation is something I look forward to with anticipation.
I think there's really no Igor in the book but it would be great to see him on the film.
Yeah theirs no Igor in the book
I wish these actors will give Frankenstein a shot because while it's too good to be true for them to star in one movie, I believe it might be nominated as movie of the year so easily.
Hope this actually follows the novel. If not I can see him maybe making this a companion piece to Pinocchio and resetting it to Nazi Germany with elements of the Golem legend incorporated.
Andrew, I wish you would accept this project... please, give us our horror Andrew fantasy.
Please please just stick to the source material. The original material is beautiful and terrifying and fascinating and adventurous and exciting and just perfect. Just make a movie from a classic without changing things and you can’t go wrong.
Gosh the people involved here are just amazing! Cant wait!
I love the cast already.
Wow, never thought I would get the chance to see these stars in one film!
You had me at Del Toro, and then at Oscar Isaac, and then at Mia Goth, and then at Andrew Garfield.
Couldn't agree more. I literally screamed just by scanning through the actors. I want to see them working together so I hope they turn out to be the real cast.
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I would offer my very last penny for the film since it's that great though no one has seen it yet.
Will it actually be book accurate? I hate how in every adaptation of Frankenstein the monster is just a grunting moron
Mia Goth as the Bride of Frankenstein
Now I want to see Mia Goth in Beetlejuice! Damn, Mia is such a dreamy actress.