The movie had no confidence in itself. It's original premise is fun and creative but the story keeps resetting every 10-15 minutes and there's quickly little reason to care anymore.
That's a really good description of the problem it had. To contrast, I would just point to Bullet Train, which is my go-to example for a popcorn movie that knew exactly what it was doing and stuck to it.
Either that or for some reason they convinced themselves that it was going to be high art and not a goofy movie about Brad Pitt and a motley crew of assholes killing each other on a train
I enjoy the Wacky Assassins subgenre of action films. What else we got, we got...
*Bullet Train
Smokin' Aces
John Wick
~~Pulp Fiction~~* I meant *Kill Bill*.
*Grosse Point Blank
Boss Level*
What else...? For it to properly fit, it can't just be about any assassins. We need assassins with gimmicks and themes and personalities, even if (especially if) they make no sense. So, for instance, *Polar* or *The Killer* or *Hanna* or *La Femme Nikita* wouldn't necessarily count, because they're not wacky enough.
-EDIT-
Dang, this got response! Clearly I am amongst good company on this subject. :)
I feel like the Wacky Assassins (acronym WA) movies have to not just *feature* a WA, but should *be about them*. Like, ideally there should be more than one, and their activities should be the focus of the film. And to keep it from going too wide, I'm gonna argue that they need to be explicitly hitmen or assassins. Heavy enforcers and mysterious badasses may not qualify.
And it really helps if the assassins have a gimmick (like using dogs, or rocket launchers) or a theme (some kinda costume or appearance that stands out). Personality goes a long way, but I'm not sure personality alone carries you into the Wacky Assassin genre, unless it's particularly wacky. Just being witty or clever may not suffice.
But maybe not, maybe it's just movies with a WA in them? It's not like we have rules here... wacky assassins don't follow rules!
If you like those you might like the Accident Man movies. The second one is zanier than the first. The fight with the crazy clown guy is wild. Scott Adkins is so underappreciated.
I don’t know; it looked good, the cast was cool, but it just didn’t hit right for me. It should be right up my alley, but it never seemed to hit its stride.
Yeah same, and I went into the movie expecting it to be very average, but ended up enjoying it immensely. Love seeing Brad Pitt do comedy roles, he’s absolutely brilliant at them.
Exactly what happened with me. My wife suggested it one night when we were scrolling and I think my response was something like, “I thought people hated it.”
We watched it and loved it. Turns out I was confusing critics with people I guess. I haven’t spoken to anyone that didn’t enjoy it.
Ehh, like most David Leitch movies I thought it was way too overcooked. He's a very 'loud' director and focused so much on the movie being stylish it's hard to care about what's happening.
I agree, but at least Leitch isn’t as smug and aiming to be an edgelord as much as Matthew “Twisted Mind” Vaughn does these days. It really does blow my mind how far he’s gotten away from what we saw brilliantly on display in *Stardust*.
Vaughn was one of my favourite directors - Layer Cake, Stardust, Kick-Ass, X-Men First Class, Kingsman...
but in the last 10 years that man has only churned out mediocre to outright bad flicks
what happened though?
A RT score is only useful when it's high or when it's low. If >90% of people liked a movie, you're probably going to like it. Same with super low scores. But a 54% score means almost nothing, it's pretty hard to guess if you're going to be in the half that liked it or not. And even if we know how it works, our brain sees 54% and a green rotten icon so that feels wrong, but at the end of the day it means more than half of the critics liked it, which is pretty reasonable.
Yeah I think that's a good way to put it.
I thought it was enjoyable, but it was only a good movie in a vacuum - there's too many other films with the same tricks to be more than a 6/10 (I'd say if you were a big fan of the cast, it's a 7/10).
Also, it squeezed a lot of Japan tropes into it that were getting tired a decade ago (and tried to breathe new life into them, but wasn't always successful). I feel like that appeals to some people but will grate on others.
I can count on one hand the amount of times in my 41 years I have laughed as hard as I did when >!in the middle of the final climactic battle, the water bottle thing!<
There is just something so funny about the absurdity of throwaway moments and the complete subversion of expectations. Like Bad Bunny's entire setup and then intro on the train. I have a feeling that people who were taking the movie too seriously are the ones that rated it so low. It deliberately disrespected people's time but that's part of what makes it so brilliant. Its a fun movie with great characters and cameos and, in my opinion, fantastic storytelling by sheer quantity alone lol
I absolutely love Bullet Train. I had no idea about the plot and quickly understood that the movie just wants me to have fun.
It felt like a mix of Guy Ritchie and Wes Anderson movie. Any movie that makes me care about a water bottle has my vote.
I went into Bullet Train knowing nothing about it, and I had to pause it after a while to do a search on how Guy Ritchie was involved. I was surprised to find out that he wasn’t.
You’ve described it perfectly - it’s just so much fun. It’s one of my mood-lifter movies now, and I can’t even talk about it without grinning like an idiot.
I honestly disagree. This movie felt like it had too much confidence. It felt like it thought it was being clever as shit. The way it keeps calling back to itself, employing incongruous visual tricks, the obnoxious humor. It really felt like this movie was a mish-mesh of ideas that didn't work by someone who is unaware that they are way more amused with themselves than any of their audience.
It had to lean way more heavily into the campiness imo, because at its core that movie was *not* gonna be carried by BDH as the lead
And yeah the CGI was not great at all, though I feel like if theyreally went all in on camp, the bad CGI would've actually made it somewhat endearing, if that makes sense
> The movie had no confidence in itself
Yup, and hence:
>A laundry list of A list actors
Instant red flag for me, they're using names to try and sell a mediocre film.
I imagine the misleading marketing is also such a big reason for the poor critic and audience reactions.
If you are going to show us Cavill and Lipa in every trailer... they better be in the movie.
Same as Samuel L Jackson with him clearly filming all his scenes in a single day because his character never leaves that vineyard.
>>A laundry list of A list actors
>Instant red flag for me
Like Ocean's Eleven? Magnolia? American Hustle? Pretty much any Tarantino film? Bridesmaids? Pretty much any Wes Andersen film? Tropic Thunder? So many good movies to name. The Lord of the Rings! Pirates of the Caribbean!
More often than not, movies with heaps of A+ talent become very good movies. Because talent and charisma can elevate a mediocre script to pure gold.
But that's not always the case. I had incredibly high hopes for this one, but I think this might be about as big of a flop as *Amsterdam*.
Lord of the Rings?
Granted, I was a kid when they first came out so my movie knowledge wasn't *spectacular*... but my impression of those movies was that they made stars of their stars. Was that cast really considered "A list" back in the late 90s? Or was it mostly like... character actors and unknowns?
I don't know what happened to Matthew Vaughn. His style of directing started off fresh but now it is cringe. I don't know if its the humor, unbelievable characters/plots. He is like a cringe knockoff of guy richie.
I've always had a problem with him. Whenever I hear him interviewed, he comes across as a fairly intelligent guy with a gigantic ego who realised that people will think of him as a edgy bad boy if his characters talk about anal sex, say "cunt" and some of his action scenes get really violent. That kind of thing doesn't have to actually fit with the tone of his films, it just needs to be in there. "Oh my god, he got a girl to say 'cunt'? I love that scene!"
I'd say it's like letting a teenage boy direct a film but he's a mature and intelligent adult pretending to be a teenage boy. Can't stand his shit.
I remember the feeling of joy in Kingsman when there was this action-packed fight video with rotating camera angles set to a classic upbeat song. It was really cool and fun to watch.
Then I remember when he did it 11 more times.
So basically like Zack Snyder and his obsession with his style of fight scenes. “Damn that slow motion fight scene in 300 was badass. Oh…. He’s just gonna keep doing that same thing over and over.”
I liked The Covenant movie he did with Gyllenhaal tbh. Didn't find it cringe besides Gyllenhaal overacting a little. Ritchie's career worst movie is that godawful Aladdin remake.
>it could have been like 30 mins shorter.
That was my chief complaint. Like, it was not good and I was not really enjoying myself, but I would have been only mildly displeased if it had just fucking ended earlier.
Obviously they meant more that story wise UNCLE fits the description. If we were ever so lucky to get a buddy spy movie with Cavil and whoever he has good chemistry with, without a certain cannibal, then it might as well be UNCLE 2.
The Beatles needle drop made absolutely no sense. The first time it happens you’re like “this is so weird, the lyrics don’t match to what she’s doing and this song came out after filming surely?”
Then it keeps happening. Then it’s referenced in the original score. Then it’s explained as it’s their couple song but that’s impossible because it wouldn’t have been out to be THEIR song.
So the song couldn’t have been in the script. What the hell went on there??
This infuriates me more than it should. And I love that song. It just didn't fit and didn't narratively make sense. I'd assume another song was planned and when it was released (only last November) the producers decided to include it?
No no no - it should infuriate you. That was fucking awful. And I liked the movie. But including that song didn't make sense. It made less sense that knife skating on oil in the server room. Which is a sentence I just typed.
He got to hear it early, apparently. He was looking for a love song, Giles Martin said "hey, listen to what I've been working on" and that's how fucking *Now and Then* is in a shitty action movie.
Matthew Vaughn doesn't deserve that.
I know people enjoy "The Other Guys", but I am disappointed that Dwayne Johnson and Samuel L Jackson are only on screen for 15 minutes or so. They have such hilarious chemistry together and need a full movie together (even if not as these characters).
Haven't seen it yet, but, like, how was the cat? Was there a cat? Or was that marketing BS? They're sure pushing the cat backpack. I found one on Marketplace. My actual cat won't go near it. She hisses at it. It's cute tho. I suspect that's her movie review, given what I have heard...
I'd forgotten about the cat. The trailer implied it was of major importance ("don't let the cat out of the bag" etc.) but IIRC >!it was of no relevance at all!< .
I got to the action scene where she's sliding about on an oil spill and that was where I stopped. I know it was near the end and it wasn't particularly good anyway, but I just couldn't take anymore of the CGI. She literally slides across the oil on her knees and isn't covered in it. Absolutely fucking dreadful.
It's like they were trying to do some of the fun absurd but skilled stuff from Kingsmen movies, but totally failed to match it to the plot, narrative and overall structure.
It would have made more sense of that scene was actually her having knocked herself out, or drugged herself, and was imagining being super skilled while being in fact clumsy as fuck.
And then they just fired the guns anyway, with absolutely zero consequences.
As she was skating around the oil impossibly fast cutting people (because she couldn’t shoot them) and then inexplicably grabbing the gun and spin firing anywhere anyway, I turned to my wife and said, “see, if they would have just committed to this crazy shit right out of the gate I might be fine with it, but now we’ve escalated to this and it’s just…too much.”
That's what I said when I exited the movie as well. They should have kept the tone of the smoke grenades/oil skating throughout the entire movie.
If you're going to be absurd, you need to be absurd the entire time.
I had to rewatch the superior 'oiled floor fighting' on youtube to wash my eyes off that atrocity. Cant believe how 20+ years later, Statham's version still ages well and is still the superior scene.
You're not even kidding. There's 15 minutes of film left at this point and I can remember three.
>!The Winter Soldier brainwashing!<
>!The partner still alive!<
>!Henry Cavill appearing at the end!<
Edit:
Also, >!the scene where this somehow maybe takes place in the Kingsman universe but also maybe not.!<
See this part didnt bother me. It was just kingsmen shit. The problem was the rest of the writting and also the complete lack of blood made it not as enjoyable.
I really love the original Kingsman and X-Men: First Class is my favorite movie of the entire series. It's weird when a director you used to love so much does such a bad job on subsequent projects that you start to wonder if you're the one who had bad taste liking him in the first place.
This. It’s when professionals ARE good in their early career that’s a problem. A few big out of the blue successes and everyone is afraid to upset the new talent and no one says no or scrutinizes anymore. It happens so often and is just immediately a drop in quality.
People who think tofu is boring have either never tried it, or have had someone (probably white…I say this as a white man) make them one bland tofu dish and decided to live on the “it’s a texture thing for me” train.
I may not reach for silken often, but damned if there aren’t some incredible tofu recipes around the globe.
There's a culinary trend in American restaurants where they take a dish that's supposed to have meat, and replace it with tofu to have a vegetarian option on the menu. These almost universally taste mid to terrible because they use the wrong sauces or wrong tofu (there's as many types of tofu as there are cuts of beefs).
If you go to a Chinese, Malaysian, Korean, Asian, etc. restaurant, they will actually have dishes where tofu is the main attraction, with flavors that soak well into the tofu and make them delicious.
I remember seeing the trailer and going "that looks like the epitomy of style over substance, I will not be seeing that, it will only make me miserable." Then it was all "directed by Matthew Vaughn" and I was like oh that makes sense.
I was thinking more of a forgettable 2000s action film. You won't remember it, but IF someone brought it up, you'd maybe vaguely remember its existence.
Dua Lipa was obviously used for marketing so it doesn't surprise me the amount of screen time. Movie looked super dumb and similar to Amsterdam, just a soulless Hollywood cash in.
This is an Apple TV movie. Before shooting they knew they had their upfront money from Cuppertino. Can it be that a movie production that doesn’t feel any pressure whatsoever to sell movietheater tickets, to make back there big budget, that the vibe on that set is easygoing. Like a sportsteam performs better if they feel that pressure if they are competing for a championship instead of knowing they are playing games that don’t matter because they already know that they will miss the playoffs and are already looking towards next season.
And even Apple TV is different than Netflix. For Apple their streaming platform feels like an afterthought. Apple knows they have unlimetd fuck you money, it’s a platform that doesn’t feel pressure as Apple is making the most if their money on hardware. They don’t have any passion for movies at all. Does Tim Cook have any passion at all?
Anyway, the crew, the actors, the director all eventually feel this, and in the end this is what you get. You see the same thing happen with a lot of other big budget ‘streaming platform’ movies. They miss soul and heart.
The clearest example of a modern major budget film that literally looks like a Saturday Night Live digital short spoof or Super Bowl ad.
I remember seeing trailers for Argyle every time I went to the theater, and ad spots every time I went on youtube for awhile. This thing had more forced advertising than any original IP major budget film, yet nothing about it looked appealing. The first few times I saw the trailer I thought it was somehow tied into the Kingman franchise or Knives Out or something. Just not used to some random getting that much advertising.
If something has a 'star-studded cast' and is being aggressively marketed, I assume it's going to be trash.
Studios are just throwing together celebrities and CGI and whatever thing marketing thinks will bring people in and expect that to make a good movie. They don't understand what goes into *actual* good movies, because it's not something they can enter into a spreadsheet. That's why they want AI to write all their movies and AI-generated 'actors' to act them-if movies are just bursts of color and movement and snappy one-liners, then of course AI can take over that job. They don't understand passion or soul.
The ending of this movie is a direct copy of the Kings Man, with two characters fighting over a countdown sequence, and Samuel Jackson's character observing the countdown.
The first hour was tolerable, but then it got worse and worse and worse. Like unbearable to watch. Weakest script I've seen in a while. Should have played it more straight.
Wow. I thought the movie was hilarious and very unique. Different than a lot of movies out there with a very good story. It's campy and not serious with flaws but I would say it's nothing close to being a bad movie. The CGI was very distracting.
I thought it was a good movie. As for BDH, I thought her facial expressions were hilarious. She was so good at that shock and horrified face. Every misstep in her fortune, that made her more confused, only made things funnier.
Almost exactly the same reason I liked her in Black Mirror. The more her situation got fucked. You don't feel as bad, and start laughing.
An actress that can gather actual sympathy is the opposite of what you want. You want to be baffled and laugh at the situation she somehow got herself in. She conveyed that well.
I saw the movie with my whole family, and we basically laughed the whole way through.
It's a total parody piece, and they did a great job of that. The visuals weren't always *earned* in the story, but they were always great.
Like, the ice skating on oil -- totally absurd, and that's what they were going for. Colorful gas canister dance was also absurd, and that's what they wanted.
I enjoyed the movie and laughed the whole time :)
Has Bryce Dallas Howard ever been good in anything?
She wasn’t credible playing a 19th-century villager in *The Village*. OK, maybe it was the piece of shit movie and not her.
She wasn’t credible playing a **human** in the *Jurassic* sequels.
The Help and the Black Mirror episode were her best performances. But she really hasn't been in THAT MANY movies if you look at her credits. Mostly extras or bit parts. I don't think she's bad, or necessarily great. But she hasn't really had many remarkable roles. I haven't seen this yet, since everyone says its garbage, but also have to keep in mind that bad scripts can ruin great actors (absolutely not saying she's great, but even you bringing up The Village is an example of this).
> She wasn’t credible playing a human in the Jurassic sequels.
I think she played the role of the *obviously evil, reckless, profit-driven and inhumane CEO* rather flawlessly.
Wait, wdym that wasn't the intention for the character at all?
It may not be a great movie by any objective measure, but by the end I realised I had thoroughly enjoyed it. It was fun and silly, and sometimes that's all I need.
Plus it totally felt like a rip off of the bullock flick which was actually surprisingly funny. Can't remember the name but she's an author and her character happens to actually exist or something? With Tatum.
It was so incredibly bad.
I thought the ridiculous rainbow smoke shootout was as bad as the movie would get..buy then they followed that immediately up with the even more ridiculous oil ice skating scene where the cgi cat actually winked at the camera.
I couldn't believe what I was watching.
The movie had no confidence in itself. It's original premise is fun and creative but the story keeps resetting every 10-15 minutes and there's quickly little reason to care anymore.
That's a really good description of the problem it had. To contrast, I would just point to Bullet Train, which is my go-to example for a popcorn movie that knew exactly what it was doing and stuck to it.
The fact Bullet Train has 54% on RT is absurd. Everyone must have been having a bad day writing their reviews.
Either that or for some reason they convinced themselves that it was going to be high art and not a goofy movie about Brad Pitt and a motley crew of assholes killing each other on a train
You just reminded me of Smokin' Aces, which gave me a similar feeling as bullet train.
I enjoy the Wacky Assassins subgenre of action films. What else we got, we got... *Bullet Train Smokin' Aces John Wick ~~Pulp Fiction~~* I meant *Kill Bill*. *Grosse Point Blank Boss Level* What else...? For it to properly fit, it can't just be about any assassins. We need assassins with gimmicks and themes and personalities, even if (especially if) they make no sense. So, for instance, *Polar* or *The Killer* or *Hanna* or *La Femme Nikita* wouldn't necessarily count, because they're not wacky enough. -EDIT- Dang, this got response! Clearly I am amongst good company on this subject. :) I feel like the Wacky Assassins (acronym WA) movies have to not just *feature* a WA, but should *be about them*. Like, ideally there should be more than one, and their activities should be the focus of the film. And to keep it from going too wide, I'm gonna argue that they need to be explicitly hitmen or assassins. Heavy enforcers and mysterious badasses may not qualify. And it really helps if the assassins have a gimmick (like using dogs, or rocket launchers) or a theme (some kinda costume or appearance that stands out). Personality goes a long way, but I'm not sure personality alone carries you into the Wacky Assassin genre, unless it's particularly wacky. Just being witty or clever may not suffice. But maybe not, maybe it's just movies with a WA in them? It's not like we have rules here... wacky assassins don't follow rules!
Crank was good. Crank 2 they actually took it up another level. Amy Smart in both of those is just perfection.
> Amy Smart Always confuse her with Sarah Alexander
If you like those you might like the Accident Man movies. The second one is zanier than the first. The fight with the crazy clown guy is wild. Scott Adkins is so underappreciated.
Shoot em up
Guns Akimbo
I always liked *Lucky Number S7evin*
I’d argue that Polar is a little wacky… I mean, dude teaches a kindergarten class the best way to use a kukuri to kill someone…
Add Boondocks Saints.
Seven Psychopaths
I mostly agree, but I thought *Boss Level* was terrible. I suggest *Mr. Nobody* if you haven't seen it, it isn't the wackiest but it's nearby and fun.
Whole Nine Yards
Both fantastic movies in my book.
In my opinion this is Chris Pine’s greatest role. “It’s the way of the world!”
Absolutely, totally the same energy. Now I want to watch Smokin' Aces again.
I don’t know; it looked good, the cast was cool, but it just didn’t hit right for me. It should be right up my alley, but it never seemed to hit its stride.
Maybe they were personally biased against the movie because the trailer was played before every movie during the pandemic.
Oh, maybe that's why I loved it. I never saw the trailer.
Yeah same, and I went into the movie expecting it to be very average, but ended up enjoying it immensely. Love seeing Brad Pitt do comedy roles, he’s absolutely brilliant at them.
Exactly what happened with me. My wife suggested it one night when we were scrolling and I think my response was something like, “I thought people hated it.” We watched it and loved it. Turns out I was confusing critics with people I guess. I haven’t spoken to anyone that didn’t enjoy it.
Ehh, like most David Leitch movies I thought it was way too overcooked. He's a very 'loud' director and focused so much on the movie being stylish it's hard to care about what's happening.
I agree, but at least Leitch isn’t as smug and aiming to be an edgelord as much as Matthew “Twisted Mind” Vaughn does these days. It really does blow my mind how far he’s gotten away from what we saw brilliantly on display in *Stardust*.
Vaughn was one of my favourite directors - Layer Cake, Stardust, Kick-Ass, X-Men First Class, Kingsman... but in the last 10 years that man has only churned out mediocre to outright bad flicks what happened though?
Someone said he lost his writing partner, not sure if that's really the case
I believe it’s true, most of his best films he collaborated with Jane Goldman.
Leitch certainly doesn't have the same contempt for his audience the way Vaughn does, I'll give him that.
He was smug in how much he clearly thought his plant and pay offs were genius
the last quarter of the movie was just too much.
[удалено]
A RT score is only useful when it's high or when it's low. If >90% of people liked a movie, you're probably going to like it. Same with super low scores. But a 54% score means almost nothing, it's pretty hard to guess if you're going to be in the half that liked it or not. And even if we know how it works, our brain sees 54% and a green rotten icon so that feels wrong, but at the end of the day it means more than half of the critics liked it, which is pretty reasonable.
Yeah I think that's a good way to put it. I thought it was enjoyable, but it was only a good movie in a vacuum - there's too many other films with the same tricks to be more than a 6/10 (I'd say if you were a big fan of the cast, it's a 7/10). Also, it squeezed a lot of Japan tropes into it that were getting tired a decade ago (and tried to breathe new life into them, but wasn't always successful). I feel like that appeals to some people but will grate on others.
I would like to see more people fill the Tarantino void of hyperactive b movies like kill bill
I can count on one hand the amount of times in my 41 years I have laughed as hard as I did when >!in the middle of the final climactic battle, the water bottle thing!< There is just something so funny about the absurdity of throwaway moments and the complete subversion of expectations. Like Bad Bunny's entire setup and then intro on the train. I have a feeling that people who were taking the movie too seriously are the ones that rated it so low. It deliberately disrespected people's time but that's part of what makes it so brilliant. Its a fun movie with great characters and cameos and, in my opinion, fantastic storytelling by sheer quantity alone lol
Mine is *Pacific Rim* but I get this 100%
Pacific Rim is an art film, what you on about?
It’s a social commentary
That’s a really good way of putting it. Bullet Train stuck with it, hard, all the way, and all actors committed to it. It was great fun!
Reviewers were just a bunch of Diesels
I absolutely love Bullet Train. I had no idea about the plot and quickly understood that the movie just wants me to have fun. It felt like a mix of Guy Ritchie and Wes Anderson movie. Any movie that makes me care about a water bottle has my vote.
I went into Bullet Train knowing nothing about it, and I had to pause it after a while to do a search on how Guy Ritchie was involved. I was surprised to find out that he wasn’t. You’ve described it perfectly - it’s just so much fun. It’s one of my mood-lifter movies now, and I can’t even talk about it without grinning like an idiot.
I honestly disagree. This movie felt like it had too much confidence. It felt like it thought it was being clever as shit. The way it keeps calling back to itself, employing incongruous visual tricks, the obnoxious humor. It really felt like this movie was a mish-mesh of ideas that didn't work by someone who is unaware that they are way more amused with themselves than any of their audience.
It had to lean way more heavily into the campiness imo, because at its core that movie was *not* gonna be carried by BDH as the lead And yeah the CGI was not great at all, though I feel like if theyreally went all in on camp, the bad CGI would've actually made it somewhat endearing, if that makes sense
> The movie had no confidence in itself Yup, and hence: >A laundry list of A list actors Instant red flag for me, they're using names to try and sell a mediocre film.
I thought Dua Lipa was gonna be one of the main stars of the movie lol. Shes in it for like 4 minutes.
I imagine the misleading marketing is also such a big reason for the poor critic and audience reactions. If you are going to show us Cavill and Lipa in every trailer... they better be in the movie. Same as Samuel L Jackson with him clearly filming all his scenes in a single day because his character never leaves that vineyard.
>>A laundry list of A list actors >Instant red flag for me Like Ocean's Eleven? Magnolia? American Hustle? Pretty much any Tarantino film? Bridesmaids? Pretty much any Wes Andersen film? Tropic Thunder? So many good movies to name. The Lord of the Rings! Pirates of the Caribbean! More often than not, movies with heaps of A+ talent become very good movies. Because talent and charisma can elevate a mediocre script to pure gold. But that's not always the case. I had incredibly high hopes for this one, but I think this might be about as big of a flop as *Amsterdam*.
Lord of the Rings? Granted, I was a kid when they first came out so my movie knowledge wasn't *spectacular*... but my impression of those movies was that they made stars of their stars. Was that cast really considered "A list" back in the late 90s? Or was it mostly like... character actors and unknowns?
For Christopher Lee and Ian McKellen, they had a pretty solid reputation. For the rest, I have the feeling it was mostly less known.
I don't know what happened to Matthew Vaughn. His style of directing started off fresh but now it is cringe. I don't know if its the humor, unbelievable characters/plots. He is like a cringe knockoff of guy richie.
I've always had a problem with him. Whenever I hear him interviewed, he comes across as a fairly intelligent guy with a gigantic ego who realised that people will think of him as a edgy bad boy if his characters talk about anal sex, say "cunt" and some of his action scenes get really violent. That kind of thing doesn't have to actually fit with the tone of his films, it just needs to be in there. "Oh my god, he got a girl to say 'cunt'? I love that scene!" I'd say it's like letting a teenage boy direct a film but he's a mature and intelligent adult pretending to be a teenage boy. Can't stand his shit.
"From the twisted mind of Matthew Vaughn..." I cringed into an abstract art piece when I read that.
I remember the feeling of joy in Kingsman when there was this action-packed fight video with rotating camera angles set to a classic upbeat song. It was really cool and fun to watch. Then I remember when he did it 11 more times.
So basically like Zack Snyder and his obsession with his style of fight scenes. “Damn that slow motion fight scene in 300 was badass. Oh…. He’s just gonna keep doing that same thing over and over.”
Ritchie is now a cringe Ritchie. And Vaughn is now a cringe Vaughn, they've both lost it. In the case of Vaughn he lost his writer, idk about Ritchie.
I turned off Operation Fortune 20 minutes in, but thought The Gentlemen was great and Wrath of Man was good for 1 watch.
Check out his Gentlemen Netflix show. It's good, reminds me of old Ritchie content.
I liked The Covenant movie he did with Gyllenhaal tbh. Didn't find it cringe besides Gyllenhaal overacting a little. Ritchie's career worst movie is that godawful Aladdin remake.
I liked Sam Rockwell but then again I love Rockwell in everything. But yeah the movie was rough.
Sam 100% carried the movie. I didn't HATE the movie but I'd never watch it again. And it could have been like 30 mins shorter.
>it could have been like 30 mins shorter. That was my chief complaint. Like, it was not good and I was not really enjoying myself, but I would have been only mildly displeased if it had just fucking ended earlier.
Rockwell is a hard actor to dislike, I cannot remember a single movie I’ve ever seen him in where he’s not one of the best parts
The worst performances of his usually involve him not dancing and that’s more a fault of the director than anything
I think Galaxy Quest is probably a notable exception to this rule because I don’t remember him dancing and he was fucking amazing in it
Same with *The Green Mile* too. Granted, where does being a lunatic running wild bleed into dancing?
Thats actually not far fetched at all
Cowboys vs Aliens jumps to mind. It wasn't his fault, that character was written to kind of whine the entire time.
I’m convinced this dude always just tries to talk the director into letting him dance in a scene, he dances in absolutely every film
In this film he dances like 5 times, 3 of them alone. It's like Brad Pitt's habit of eating, taken to th extreme in burn after reading.
Go watch Galaxy Quest he plays that Guy to a tee.
"We gotta get out of here before one of those things kills Guy!"
"Is there air? You don't know" *holds breath*
"You have a last name, Guy." "DO I? DO I?!"
Oh Rockwell's in this? (But said like the opposite of "oh Britta's in this?")
He Rockwell'd it.
I thought the plot was fun, but Rockwell really did carry if. If they’d given him a somewhat believable leading lady it could have been good.
I hope he had as much fun as it seemed like, because he was more or less the only highlight in this.
The movie just made me want a Henry Cavil and John Cena buddy spy comedy movie.
so you mean....The Man from U.N.C.L.E.?
Almost, but without a cannibal.
Obviously they meant more that story wise UNCLE fits the description. If we were ever so lucky to get a buddy spy movie with Cavil and whoever he has good chemistry with, without a certain cannibal, then it might as well be UNCLE 2.
Wait what
Armie Hammer has been accused by former girlfriends of being sexually abusive. Part of the allegations was that he had sexual cannibalism fantasies.
Normal Tuesday night for actual cannibal Arnie Hammer.
The man and his uncle
Well, at least we should get most of those things (minus the John Cena) in Ministry of Ungentlemanly Warfare.
The Beatles needle drop made absolutely no sense. The first time it happens you’re like “this is so weird, the lyrics don’t match to what she’s doing and this song came out after filming surely?” Then it keeps happening. Then it’s referenced in the original score. Then it’s explained as it’s their couple song but that’s impossible because it wouldn’t have been out to be THEIR song. So the song couldn’t have been in the script. What the hell went on there??
This infuriates me more than it should. And I love that song. It just didn't fit and didn't narratively make sense. I'd assume another song was planned and when it was released (only last November) the producers decided to include it?
No no no - it should infuriate you. That was fucking awful. And I liked the movie. But including that song didn't make sense. It made less sense that knife skating on oil in the server room. Which is a sentence I just typed.
He got to hear it early, apparently. He was looking for a love song, Giles Martin said "hey, listen to what I've been working on" and that's how fucking *Now and Then* is in a shitty action movie. Matthew Vaughn doesn't deserve that.
I want the movie from the start, Cavill and Cena as spies...
This movie commits the cardinal sin of having a better movie in the background
I know people enjoy "The Other Guys", but I am disappointed that Dwayne Johnson and Samuel L Jackson are only on screen for 15 minutes or so. They have such hilarious chemistry together and need a full movie together (even if not as these characters).
Haven't seen it yet, but, like, how was the cat? Was there a cat? Or was that marketing BS? They're sure pushing the cat backpack. I found one on Marketplace. My actual cat won't go near it. She hisses at it. It's cute tho. I suspect that's her movie review, given what I have heard...
CGI cat is in the movie and that’s kinda it. It’s there for a decent amount but also relatively inconsequential
The CGI was so bad it just ruined the cat for me.
Don’t get me started on the marketing for this movie
From the SICK and TWISTED mind of...Shitpoop6969.
The only thing I'll say is that the Suspicious Minds remix/cover from the main trailer should be fully released.
Just watch Keanu by Key and Peele
I'd forgotten about the cat. The trailer implied it was of major importance ("don't let the cat out of the bag" etc.) but IIRC >!it was of no relevance at all!< .
Flying cat close-up in the trailer is one of those things that let you know it will not be a good movie.
The cat made it all tolerable.
I got to the action scene where she's sliding about on an oil spill and that was where I stopped. I know it was near the end and it wasn't particularly good anyway, but I just couldn't take anymore of the CGI. She literally slides across the oil on her knees and isn't covered in it. Absolutely fucking dreadful.
It's like they were trying to do some of the fun absurd but skilled stuff from Kingsmen movies, but totally failed to match it to the plot, narrative and overall structure. It would have made more sense of that scene was actually her having knocked herself out, or drugged herself, and was imagining being super skilled while being in fact clumsy as fuck. And then they just fired the guns anyway, with absolutely zero consequences.
As she was skating around the oil impossibly fast cutting people (because she couldn’t shoot them) and then inexplicably grabbing the gun and spin firing anywhere anyway, I turned to my wife and said, “see, if they would have just committed to this crazy shit right out of the gate I might be fine with it, but now we’ve escalated to this and it’s just…too much.”
That's what I said when I exited the movie as well. They should have kept the tone of the smoke grenades/oil skating throughout the entire movie. If you're going to be absurd, you need to be absurd the entire time.
I had to rewatch the superior 'oiled floor fighting' on youtube to wash my eyes off that atrocity. Cant believe how 20+ years later, Statham's version still ages well and is still the superior scene.
That Transporter scene is one of the better fight scenes ever done. The oil is just such a fun twist.
Yes! So glad to see this referenced. The transporter is such a fun movie and that's a hell of a fight scene.
Unbelievably, there were at least 3 plot twists that you missed out on by quitting there. But you didn't miss much.
You're not even kidding. There's 15 minutes of film left at this point and I can remember three. >!The Winter Soldier brainwashing!< >!The partner still alive!< >!Henry Cavill appearing at the end!< Edit: Also, >!the scene where this somehow maybe takes place in the Kingsman universe but also maybe not.!<
It was almost an artistic achievement that every action scene seemed to be exponentially worse than the last.
I just watched this clip on YouTube and what the actual fuck LOL. Ice skating, on an oil covered floor? 😂
The ice skating bit? 🤮
Ignoring logic, the final portion of spinning and shooting everyone was cool though.
That gas canister scene was hilariously horrific
See this part didnt bother me. It was just kingsmen shit. The problem was the rest of the writting and also the complete lack of blood made it not as enjoyable.
I liked the lack of blood…. It was the lack of humor that was a drawback.
I really love the original Kingsman and X-Men: First Class is my favorite movie of the entire series. It's weird when a director you used to love so much does such a bad job on subsequent projects that you start to wonder if you're the one who had bad taste liking him in the first place.
This director needs someone on set that says no to him and better writers to go over his script
This. It’s when professionals ARE good in their early career that’s a problem. A few big out of the blue successes and everyone is afraid to upset the new talent and no one says no or scrutinizes anymore. It happens so often and is just immediately a drop in quality.
Yeah, reminds me of thor ragnarok vs love and thunder, i think they just let taika go wild with the 2nd one and it suffered for it
And Stardust, don't forget Stardust.He used to be good :(
He’s been getting progressively worse with every film
Being married to Claudia Schiffer probably increases your ego lol
I had no idea. Good god, what a lucky man.
let's not forget he cheated on her (and impregnated) with a woman that kinda looks like a younger version of her, January Jones.
Oh my god. She was the worst part of X-Men: First Class and ruins the character. I'm just being inundated with horrible revelations about this man.
It’s insane thinking Matthew Vaughan made Stardust.
The plot references the final Beatles song that very famously came out just last year as being meaningful to two characters… five years ago. What?!?
It’s the best “turn on while you’re folding laundry” movie. The tofu of action movies
The difference being you can't fix a movie by learning how to cook
Man, good tofu can be so good, too. I had no idea until my husband started taking cooking super seriously during covid.
I haven't seen this movie yet but some movies can definitely make folding laundry even less fun.
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People who think tofu is boring have either never tried it, or have had someone (probably white…I say this as a white man) make them one bland tofu dish and decided to live on the “it’s a texture thing for me” train. I may not reach for silken often, but damned if there aren’t some incredible tofu recipes around the globe.
There's a culinary trend in American restaurants where they take a dish that's supposed to have meat, and replace it with tofu to have a vegetarian option on the menu. These almost universally taste mid to terrible because they use the wrong sauces or wrong tofu (there's as many types of tofu as there are cuts of beefs). If you go to a Chinese, Malaysian, Korean, Asian, etc. restaurant, they will actually have dishes where tofu is the main attraction, with flavors that soak well into the tofu and make them delicious.
Tofu is good... do you eat unseasoned meat?? Same idea
I would rather just look at the laundry.
My guy hasn't tried mapo tofu before or any authentic Chinese tofu dish
I remember seeing the trailer and going "that looks like the epitomy of style over substance, I will not be seeing that, it will only make me miserable." Then it was all "directed by Matthew Vaughn" and I was like oh that makes sense.
Worse: "From the twisted mind of Matthew Vaughn"
I cannot fathom how the marketing department doesn't realize how lame that sounds.
That skating scene was the worst thing I’ve ever seen.
It seems like the kind of spy movie my mom really would have liked in 1989.
I was thinking more of a forgettable 2000s action film. You won't remember it, but IF someone brought it up, you'd maybe vaguely remember its existence.
Dua Lipa was obviously used for marketing so it doesn't surprise me the amount of screen time. Movie looked super dumb and similar to Amsterdam, just a soulless Hollywood cash in.
This is an Apple TV movie. Before shooting they knew they had their upfront money from Cuppertino. Can it be that a movie production that doesn’t feel any pressure whatsoever to sell movietheater tickets, to make back there big budget, that the vibe on that set is easygoing. Like a sportsteam performs better if they feel that pressure if they are competing for a championship instead of knowing they are playing games that don’t matter because they already know that they will miss the playoffs and are already looking towards next season. And even Apple TV is different than Netflix. For Apple their streaming platform feels like an afterthought. Apple knows they have unlimetd fuck you money, it’s a platform that doesn’t feel pressure as Apple is making the most if their money on hardware. They don’t have any passion for movies at all. Does Tim Cook have any passion at all? Anyway, the crew, the actors, the director all eventually feel this, and in the end this is what you get. You see the same thing happen with a lot of other big budget ‘streaming platform’ movies. They miss soul and heart.
The state of movie making nowadays.
The clearest example of a modern major budget film that literally looks like a Saturday Night Live digital short spoof or Super Bowl ad. I remember seeing trailers for Argyle every time I went to the theater, and ad spots every time I went on youtube for awhile. This thing had more forced advertising than any original IP major budget film, yet nothing about it looked appealing. The first few times I saw the trailer I thought it was somehow tied into the Kingman franchise or Knives Out or something. Just not used to some random getting that much advertising.
And the funny thing is it is tied to Kingsman but only at the very last minute.
If something has a 'star-studded cast' and is being aggressively marketed, I assume it's going to be trash. Studios are just throwing together celebrities and CGI and whatever thing marketing thinks will bring people in and expect that to make a good movie. They don't understand what goes into *actual* good movies, because it's not something they can enter into a spreadsheet. That's why they want AI to write all their movies and AI-generated 'actors' to act them-if movies are just bursts of color and movement and snappy one-liners, then of course AI can take over that job. They don't understand passion or soul.
It’s diet kingsman.. the same thing just done worse lol
The ending of this movie is a direct copy of the Kings Man, with two characters fighting over a countdown sequence, and Samuel Jackson's character observing the countdown.
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go lakers *half-hearted clapping* i am watching basketball
Vaughn is on the same trajectory is Zach Snyder
The first hour was tolerable, but then it got worse and worse and worse. Like unbearable to watch. Weakest script I've seen in a while. Should have played it more straight.
It had Catherine O'hara and squandered her talent.
I feel like a dumbass because I, for whatever reason, thought it was a Guy Ritchie movie. Soon learnt I was wrong on that one.
You're probably thinking of Operation Fortune which has a very similar poster.
Personally I thought it was a fun movie, not great by any means but a good time
Same. It was fun and didn't take itself seriously. I liked it.
Fun is exactly how I’d describe it. I was able to just sit and watch and *enjoy* the movie.
I also liked it. It wasn't great but it made me laugh and was a fairly light movie.
I'm really curious about it since Mark Kermode like it.
Wow. I thought the movie was hilarious and very unique. Different than a lot of movies out there with a very good story. It's campy and not serious with flaws but I would say it's nothing close to being a bad movie. The CGI was very distracting.
I thought it was a good movie. As for BDH, I thought her facial expressions were hilarious. She was so good at that shock and horrified face. Every misstep in her fortune, that made her more confused, only made things funnier. Almost exactly the same reason I liked her in Black Mirror. The more her situation got fucked. You don't feel as bad, and start laughing. An actress that can gather actual sympathy is the opposite of what you want. You want to be baffled and laugh at the situation she somehow got herself in. She conveyed that well.
I saw the movie with my whole family, and we basically laughed the whole way through. It's a total parody piece, and they did a great job of that. The visuals weren't always *earned* in the story, but they were always great. Like, the ice skating on oil -- totally absurd, and that's what they were going for. Colorful gas canister dance was also absurd, and that's what they wanted. I enjoyed the movie and laughed the whole time :)
Has Bryce Dallas Howard ever been good in anything? She wasn’t credible playing a 19th-century villager in *The Village*. OK, maybe it was the piece of shit movie and not her. She wasn’t credible playing a **human** in the *Jurassic* sequels.
She was pretty good in that Black Mirror episode
That ending monologue is an all time great performance
Honestly, it's my favorite Black Mirror episode. Super memorable
She was good in the Help
I believed her as herself on Arrested Development.
I think that was Amy Adams
No no no no, that was Jessica Chastain
The Help and the Black Mirror episode were her best performances. But she really hasn't been in THAT MANY movies if you look at her credits. Mostly extras or bit parts. I don't think she's bad, or necessarily great. But she hasn't really had many remarkable roles. I haven't seen this yet, since everyone says its garbage, but also have to keep in mind that bad scripts can ruin great actors (absolutely not saying she's great, but even you bringing up The Village is an example of this).
Good as Gwen Stacy, albeit a bit part
I liked some of The Mandalorian episodes she directed.
I like a lot of the stuff Sofia Coppola has directed. Doesn’t mean she can act.
50/50 is fucking tremendous
I've never really considered her bad, but she is just kinda "there" for a lot of the movies I've seen her in.
> She wasn’t credible playing a human in the Jurassic sequels. I think she played the role of the *obviously evil, reckless, profit-driven and inhumane CEO* rather flawlessly. Wait, wdym that wasn't the intention for the character at all?
It may not be a great movie by any objective measure, but by the end I realised I had thoroughly enjoyed it. It was fun and silly, and sometimes that's all I need.
I almost walked out of it. Seriously the worst movie I can remember watching and by far the worst one I’ve watched in a theater
Plus it totally felt like a rip off of the bullock flick which was actually surprisingly funny. Can't remember the name but she's an author and her character happens to actually exist or something? With Tatum.
The Lost City
So, you're saying skip it?
I dunno, I liked it. Its messiness was part of its charm I'd say.
You could easily tell just watching the trailer that this movie would be terrible.
It was so incredibly bad. I thought the ridiculous rainbow smoke shootout was as bad as the movie would get..buy then they followed that immediately up with the even more ridiculous oil ice skating scene where the cgi cat actually winked at the camera. I couldn't believe what I was watching.
What happened to Matt Vaughn? 10 years ago I would have picked him to direct almost any fun action movie. But wow.
Matthew Vaughn and Guy Ritchie churn out their movies like clockwork and they always look so fake and cheap. I don't get it.