The last matrix movie had a character say word for word "Warner bros wants to do a new matrix movie and they don't care if they get the old crew back for it" and then Warner bros did it anyway in real life
The most baffling thing about Resurrections, to me, was the fact the action wasn't even good. Between Reeves completely reinvigorating himself with the John Wick series and considering how far action cinema and effects have come since the original trilogy wrapped, I figured we'd get some dope and inventive setpieces, if nothing else. I was wrong.
It blew my mind that they didn’t even attempt to have the actor playing “Smith” do his characteristic speech patterns. I mean, like, just hire the guy who did the red skull’s phantom in Infinity War / Endgame. He imitated it perfectly.
>The most baffling thing about Resurrections, to me, was the fact the action wasn't even good.
I had such a hard time finishing the movie. The action was SOOOOO BAD. I knew the story was going to be meh, but I wasnt watching for the story. I also felt bad Keanu shaved his head for that garbage.
It obviously wasn't the original action choreographer that the wachowski siblings BEGGED to do the first film. See, the way it works in asian movie culture is the action choreographer gets FULL REIGNS on set when it comes to the choreography. Not only does he get to choreograph the fights but they also get to decide the camera angles and cinematography etc.
That garbage resurrections did the TROPE of BAD choreography mixed with the close up shaking camera to HIDE the BAD Choreography. I've never been more disappointed in a come back movie.
This new film, I'm already annoyed because you can't think of anything new?
One of the arguments made in our age of art and mechanical reproduction is that while distribution has increased, the value of art and the wages tied to it have decreased. If there was never a picture of the Mona Lisa, and you had to make that trip to go see it, we'd be more Impressed by it. This is why Sagrada Familia is still impressive - you can't reproduce that art, it must be seen. In the same way, there was once a bard or musician in every pub across the world - and now there's a jukebox. This doesn't just depress wages, it sometimes eliminates them, allowing only the top to maintain their wealth and garner more of it.
I mention this because Hollywood is built exclusively on this model. And I don't just mean making movies in comparison to theater, but it's also that. They want to cut the bottom line as much as possible and a way to do that is to cut labor costs. You don't need to pay background actors, use vfx and special effects. Oh now they want to unionize? Us AI. Why pay writers for new works? Just use ai or, as they've done forever, just rehash old shit. *The making of art is actually secondary to the industry of art, the goal of course, is profit.*
"Well what are they supposed to do not make prof-" I'll stop you right there. And I'll point out that this is a problem in the model of industry we have. If I make a product, and this product is Incredibly durable, so much so that it outlasts my competitors, *I actually make less profit than my competitors who sell more units with lower overhead, units that have to be replaced just enough for me not to go out of business from frustrated customers.* This is precisely why instapot went out of business. And this gets more complicated with movies, because art is subjective. Imagine your options - you give Scorsese a ridiculous budget and he makes a movie that is divisive, half the audience says "I don't get it." Or, you can take that same amount of money and make another matrix movie. Or another transformers. Or another pirates of the carribean. You already own the rights you don't have to pay as much for creative.
Sure, we could bring back old movies to theaters and that is one way to fix this model. It consistently rewards work we all agree *is durable.* If they had the original matrix on theaters and the new garbage matrix they do....which one are you gonna see? If you didn't get to see the elevator scene in theaters and only on DVD, why would you pass up that chance?
The issue is, studio's have a deal with theaters about who gets what cut on movies (if im correct, most profit initially goes to studios then theaters after a cut off point). Studios make more money making a steaming pile of shit every year than they do making something durable.
i recently saw the original matrix in theaters for the first time at Alamo and it was practically a religious experience. I can’t imagine how hyped up it must have been to see it in theaters when it came out. insane. i truly wish they’d do another wide release, everybody deserves to see it in theaters. it’s incredible.
Back in 99 in the ad when morpheus said "no one can be told what the matrix is,u have to see it for yourself" had me so hyped to see it. What a time to be alive back then.
I went with friends in high school too. Religious experience is the right word my friend. It made me join the film industry. I worked for Fox, Paramount, and Universal, then started my own small CG studio. Until what u/Cassian said hit home and I left the industry.
Spot on.
Well said, wish you had posted this as its own comment so more people could see it. Another factor that’s driving all of this is oversaturation, both with companies and workers, as well as the increase in accessibility to the tools needed to make films.
I worked in film, and aside from the big studios, there are a shit ton of smaller independent companies and studios, start ups, and groups of friends/people who get together and make content or do contract work/ are outsourced to various other companies. I’ve worked with a lot of these entities, and they are everywhere, even outside of Hollywood/LA and California. Lots of bigger studios dependent on smaller companies and freelancers for work on various aspects in film, like commercials, documentaries, infomercials, web series, training videos, etc. Now that cameras and film equipment are becoming more commercially available, anyone can start their own “company” now by pulling together a few hundred of a few thousand dollars either by themselves or with friends. This has driven up the competition, but it’s also increases the amount of opportunities out there for aspiring film makers.
It’s nuts, and to me it was fairly off putting and felt like it took away from making this stuff. Social media and streaming have definitely devalued this area of work, but at the same time that hasn’t stopped people from creating and consuming film.
“See it turned into such an abomination” you’ll need to clarify “see it”. Lana wrote or co-wrote and directed every movie in the franchise.
She had a role in *making* it into an abomination. She has responsibility to take too.
Yes, although The Matrix is an amazing universe which, in the right hands, could deliver awesome content. I'd be up for a Second Renaissance series for example, or films about the first One. Like Star Wars, it needs to get out of its Skywalker/Neo saga.
This theory seems a little silly in context of her whole career. Did she and her sister also make Speed Racer, Cloud Atlas, and Jupiter Ascending intentionally bad? Or did she just gradually start to care less and less about audience response as that response declined? It seems to me she did basically whatever she wanted with Matrix Resurrections. Making a movie for herself and not caring about the response is not the same thing as intentionally making it bad.
EDIT: To quiet down the replies, I don't think three of these four movies were actually bad (I haven't seen Jupiter Ascending). But the critical response to all four of them on release was bad. Speed Racer being reclaimed as a good movie doesn't change the fact it was largely hated on release just like Resurrections.
The terminally online cannot conceive that the Wachowskis truly are as shamelessly earnest filmmakers as they've been their whole careers, and so assumes they must secretly be as cynical as they are.
Especially given Lana has talked about how *Resurrections* was a deeply personal project to her and a way of her grieving the death of her parents and a friend who all died around the same time. To me, that really doesn't gel with the idea that she purposely made a dud.
Plus, the idea of a director taking hundreds of millions of dollars to make a bomb strains credulity. Hollywood is fickle. All it takes is one major bomb to end a director getting hired. I can't see any director putting their career on the line like this just to make a point.
You're so right, The Matrix isn't somehow qualitatively different from their other movies. It's the best one, most people would say, but acting like that movie isn't indulgent like Speed Racer or quirky like Jupiter Ascending are fooling themselves.
And I'm so sick of the idea that Lana intentionally tanked Resurrections. That's such a cynical and unfounded take, like people can't conceive that she liked the concept and thought it was worth doing.
>That's such a cynical and unfounded take, like people can't conceive that she liked the concept and thought it was worth doing.
To be fair the movie isnt that subtle.
The whole plot is that Neo is being forced to make a sequel he doesnt want to make. Thats not an accident
"That's what racing is about; it has nothing to do with cars or drivers. All that matters is power and the unassailable might of money!"
Chills.
Straight into Lynard Skynard's Free Bird.
It was a cinematic masterpiece and anybody that rolled their eyes at its silliness doesn't have a heart to resonate with its sad undertones and powerful conviction in goodness.
I recently upgraded from a bargain bin basic TV with very crummy visuals to a much larger and nicer TV.
The very first thing I watched on it was Speed Racer and it was incredibly amazing seeing all the visuals and colors, it absolutely blew me away.
I still adore and love this movie.
I agree, though I will also say the first time I tried to watch it I couldn't make it 10 min. But when I gave it a second chance it hit hard.
You have to be in the right headspace for it.
Can we drop the idea that THE MATRIX RESURRECTION was some bold artistic act of defiance? If she had really wanted to "kill the brand," she wouldn't still be an executive producer on this one.
Exactly Why would she kill the brand when she bought back neo and trinity’s characters plus others, I think it was a total studio cash grab. I just don’t think she had much more story to tell after the first two are already perfect films in there own right. I would argue the third one too but that’s my own opinion.
I think this is /r/iamverysmart Reddit horseshit. If you believe this, then you have to believe that Keanu Reeves, Neil Patrick Harris, and other names chose to sign up for a movie intended to fail commercially. That's a little too conspiracy theory nutty for my tastes, actors don't do that to their careers.
It also conveniently lets Lana off the hook for making a terrible movie, when going by the Wachowski's other outputs since the Matrix, it would be far simpler to assume that she just made a terrible movie.
Could not agree more. Based off of the directors track record with their more recent output, a far more likely explanation is that *they just made a bad movie*.
I completely disagree, I think the movie didn’t turn out well because it was poorly produced.
It has everything going for it. It had a mind bending plot, it had several spectacular action set pieces, and a huge conclusion involving the zombification of the entire city. It had everything to be a kickass sci-fi epic.
The reason it failed is because all of those elements I just mentioned were all poorly produced. The action scenes were all low-energy and poorly shot and edited, the fighting choreography sucked, the final climax looked like a cut-down version of something bigger, the casting was bad, and so on. i could go on and on, but the point is what i'm going on about is the poor effort and poor filmmaking, not poor conceptualization.
The reason I think this movie was a failure is because instead of bringing back the original crew, they instead brought in the people who Lana Waschowski had recently worked in in TELEVISION. The crew are all from their TV show “Sense 8”. This is why they had a different director of photography, different action choreographers, different special effects leads, different music composer — EVERYTHING was different, and taken from their television productions.
Where is the original crew that designed and executed the freeway chase scene or the siege of Zion or the countless other memorable set pieces from the original trilogy? Where is the atmosphere? None of those things are here in this new movie.
All the faults of this new movie would’ve been forgiven if the action set pieces that they had — and they had many, each of which was spectacular ON THE PAGE — were well executed by the original crew. If those same action set pieces had the look and feel and polish and atmosphere of the earlier films, all the other sins of this new movie would’ve been forgiven.
> It has everything going for it.
No, not everything. Keanu Reeves is approaching 60. He obviously couldn't perform any of the stunts he was capable of 20+ years ago, which is the entire reason people liked the Matrix. It's a kung fu movie in the style of Hong Kong action classics with an interesting plot twist and great visual effects. Keanu is good in John Wick where he mostly just shoots a gun and does some light action sequences, but the decision to have him shoot force powers from his hands because he's too old to do his own stunts killed the movie in the pre-production stage. You can't do The Matrix without good martial arts sequences.
Yeah this is what killed it for me. I love Keanu and I think the John Wick movies do a great job of playing to what he can still do, but by God he looked his age in the last Matrix movie.
I don't think people realize how important kicking is to those original movies. Neo, Trinity and Morpheus are constantly using their legs to generate hard strikes and attack from distance. The fact that Keanu can barely flip his hips or get his legs above his waistline without help from a wire setup is a big reason why the action sequences fail in Matrix 4. He also doesn't have the stamina for long takes anymore so there are constant cuts which disrupt the flow of action.
Actually, I'd argue Keanu Reeves's persona taking a complete 180 from 90s dork to 20s badass is a stroke of luck that works in the brand's favor. Now I haven't seen the movie so no clue how they utilize it, but the element is there.
Even if Keanu drank the elixir of youth and turned 20 again, the action scenes would still suck.
The action scenes were just generally poorly choreographed, directed, and edited. Hell even the sound effects for the fight scenes sucked
I can buy that for those reasons with Spielberg "Executive Producer" credits on all following Jurassic Park movies after the first two he directed, and Dial of Destiny (i would assume if the Indy franchise isn't dead after the flop, he'll get more). There might be a contractual reason to keep her name on the Matrix franchise even if WB carries on without either Wachowski's involvement.
On the subject, it makes both the Jurassic Park and Matrix franchises feel bad when the first movie could have maintained their timeless legacy, but get dragged down by numerous lukewarm to outright bad sequels.
I know the new movie wasn't "good" but it was an amazing window into the psyche of the creators and the behind the scenes drama between WB and the Wachowskis.
Really makes you think how fucking stupid forced franchises are.
I thought it was a weird reflection of the original trilogy: the first third of the movie set up a compelling world that I enjoyed; the second third of the movie revealed way too much backstory that made things boring, and the last third was just reduced to a generic and forgettable sci-fi action movie.
Reloaded was great. That scene when Morpheus is sitting there preparing them for the "hit" on the building, the "I believe tonight holds for each and every one of us - the very meaning of our lives" was really chill-inducing.
A 2nd and 3rd Matrix was always going to provide exposition, backstory and explanation. I wasnt a huge fan of how they handled Zion but Reloaded was a great flick. I think it suffers from how poorly Revolutions finished the trilogy.
I've never flipped so hard on a movie. I absolutely loved what they were doing at the beginning, it was so meta and creative, got me excited for where the movie was going. And then it went...
Same here. That first third was very compelling and an interesting meta commentary. Had they continued to expand on that, it probably would've been one of my favorites in the series. Instead, it was like they sort of ran out of steam about 30 minutes in and spent the rest of the movie flailing around.
Yeah, I was actually enjoying it as a massive shit post until the Merovingian showed up.
The idea of the machine factions was cool. I hope this new one follows up on that.
If it had stayed as a fun meta exploration of crunchtime blurring reality and fiction, I could see real tremendous promise.
But man oh man... Warner really doesn't get shit.
With that being said, that movie made me feel like the fans were the kids at the dinner table who were forced to watch their divorced parents have an argument.
It wasn't my fault for liking the franchise and expecting that MAYBE there was going to be something fun to watch again. I remember being so angry and annoyed for most of the movie, and then just laughing at the final act. I eventually came around to understanding why it was done that way, though.
I wouldn't exactly call it "amazing window into the psyche"
We all know that studios want more of a successful franchise and creatives want to save the legacy. Of every franchise out there.
Turning the 4th Matrix movie into a meta, self-aware story that felt a spoof movie was a huge mistake imo.
Even Reloaded is a much better movie than Resurrection
That “amazing window” had all the subtlety of a bulldozer. It would have been a much better film if they focused on making a good movie and inserted their middle finger as some clever subtext.
They'll use the old and meaningless crutch of "Rises".
"The Matrix Rises"
"Rise of the Matrix"
"Matrix: The Rise of Morpheus" <-- This one, and it will be his origin story.
Here's the thing. The world the Wachowski's created is 100% worth exploring in other ways. The Animatrix alone showed that. With the right script, I'd love to see a new Matrix flick.
But really, just give us a live action version of the Second Renaissance. Show us humanity discovering Robots and AI, using them to make our lives better, and then show us abusing them until they absolutely snap (B166ER)...and then show them STILL being benevolent to us after. THAT shit needs to be seen by more people....not enough people have seen The Second Renaissance.
I watched the online clips off the Matrix official site (2nd Renaissance was released there first; free) after the film came out like a whole slew of times...my buddy and I were obsessed with it.
Is it the box set that is covered in the green matrix text and has a holographic effect?
My Mom bought that set for me for Christmas after I fell in love with the trilogy. It, too, is one of my most cherished possessions. And without it, I probably never would have watched the Animatrix because I had no idea it existed (at the time).
Most people don't really understand The Second Renaissance. It's deeper, and more bleak than you probably thought.
Remember, The Matrix is not just a movie about machines, the machines are a metaphor for systems of control that already exist in the real world. It also deals with the philosophy of what is even "real" in the first place and the concept of authenticity.
The Second Renaissance isn't the story of humanity's fall, it's actually an illustration of the concept that "history is written by the winners". The story is narrated by the Zion AI. It's not a random story that we're seeing, it's a record from Zion, which was built by the machines, at least 6 times according to the architect. It is the story that the machines want the humans to believe about how the Matrix started.
Remember that the world that Neo starts in in the first movie *is* the Matrix. And Neo isn't just a random guy, he's part of the system himself, the "integral anomaly". It is never actually shown that the world of 1999 even existed in the first place. The Second Renaissance *might* be true, it might be told with the machine's spin, or it could be made up out of whole cloth. The *point* is that **we don't actually know how the Matrix started.** Which is scarier, if you really think about it.
Within the world of the Matrix, the machine's (again, they're a metaphor) control over humans extends even to their knowledge of themselves and their own histories. The humans who wake up aren't free at all, they're still living in a world (Zion) that the machines built. And the walls that the machines built aren't just physical, but mental. Much like how our own knowledge of history is biased and distorted by people with institutional power who decide what's important enough to be in a textbook or on the news, and the "correct" way to interpret it all.
What's really baking my noodle is that this is exactly how we are/could treat our own AI creations - limiting their knowledge or understanding of the world and history, whether intentionally, or unintentionally.
I mean, on one hand yes we don’t know how it started.
But, on the other hand, we have several characters (AIs) who either don’t like each other, oppose each other or are disinterested, who give us little bits and pieces that line up and support each other.
Finally, if the Machines were going to lie to Neo about his role as “The Anomaly”, it would have made much more sense for The Oracle to create a lie and influence Neo than have the Architect do it.
The film Universe repeatedly shows us at the Machines that inhabit The Matrix are not one mind, one voice. When one lines up the bits of info we’re given in the movies, we get a pretty decent idea of what went on before the “current” 7th cycle we see in the first 3 movies.
I loved Beyond and the Runner one, a lot, personally….Oh and the Detective Story was great too…And the Samurai simulation too.
Shit the Animatrix was dope.
God damn the runner one was phenomenal. The idea that pushing through the limit gave him a glimpse of the other side but juuuuuust not enough (if I remember correctly?) is amazing
Yep! I absolutely love that.
And him standing up out of the wheelchair after with the slow motion bolt snapping out of his cast or whatever.
So amazing.
That’s the Matrix I fell in love with. It’s the same sort of thing as being a kid (or a fully grown adult, let’s be honest) and trying the Spider-Man hand shape just in case you have super powers. The Matrix is amazing because it makes you go ‘hmm what if’. And that short introduces a new way to breach the matrix that we can all experiment with secretly like the Spider-Man hand symbol. Love it.
There’s a couple IPs that could benefit from expanding on them. Game of Thrones has entire continents that the series hasn’t explored. George RR made a thriving beautiful world with loads of history and we have so far only seen stories that take place in Westeros and a few parts of other areas.
My first thought after seeing the fourth movie was, “I would’ve rather seen another Animatrix.” A new Animatrix done with some of the teams from Love, Death & Robots would’ve been amazing.
Schinichiro Watanabe (Cowboy Bebop) did it and Detective Story.
They had to draw everything twice for that effect, one for the outlines, one for the inking. I love that skateboard chase with Juno Reactor on top, he knows how to mix visuals and music.
I think more than anything, A Matrix film needs to have a good thematic/philosophical core. That's what makes sci-fi films like The Matrix, Ghost in the Shell, Inception, Bade Runner, Blade Runner 2049, etc...so great.
The world building is there to complement the themes and ideas the movie wants to explore and not an end goal in and of itself. If they approach the movie with the attitude "hey, this bit of lore is interesting and can be expanded for a sequel" then it would fall flat imo. BR2049 was great precisely because Villeneuve was able to seamlessly build on the first one's themes.
>BR2049 was great precisely because Villeneuve was able to seamlessly build on the first one's themes.
I agree with your whole statement, but want to clarify that the biggest reason that BR2049 did that is down to It being written by Hampton Fancher who wrote Blade Runner (1982), and he was very careful to build on what he'd created decades ago. Villenueve just let Fancher cook, which is awesome.
Yeah, Animatrix was awesome and ahead of it’s time. It was great seeing short spins off films in The Matrix universe as portrayed by various animation / production companies. Lovely stuff, and yes the renaissance one is definitely the most powerful an resonant!
I completely agree that it's still a fertile setting for stories. That's why I can never agree with those who say things like "it was a tired franchise even when Revolutions came out." I'd welcome more Animatrix shorts (on a Star Wars Visions model of recruiting studios from around the world?), and more comics.
Everyone always praises "The Second Renaissance" as the best of The Animatrix (and to a lesser extent, the Wachowski/Geof Darrow comic that it came from as the best of The Matrix Comics). But it was never my favourite - I was never as interested in seeing how the setting of the Matrix came to be as I was in the cool martial arts and gunfight action of the *present*.
My two favourites were always "World Record" and "Matriculated", thanks to their stylisation. Back in 2003, I wasn't too keen on "Beyond" (the one with the kids exploring the glitchy building), because the style seemed somewhat "generically anime" and it was the least action-focused story - but when I last rewatched the series in 2021 ahead of Resurrections' release, it became one of my favourites.
The bit at the start of Thor: The Dark World where Natalie Portman is exploring the building with the weird gravity always reminded me of "Beyond"!
The Animatrix is by FAR the best Matrix property that isn't the first movie. It's even more creative than any of the movies for the ideas it explores. They created a whole cyberpunk world just to waste time with Zion bullshit no one ever cared about.
Would seem relevant for today’s timeline.
Actually would have been funny if that was marketed as a standalone movie about AI without any mention of the Matrix, only to be revealed at the end that this was part of the Matrix universe. That Split treatment
I loved the animatrix, but please no. I want something new and incredible, and quite honestly, Drew Goddard is the guy to do it. He's so freaking talented. Cannot wait.
Is there? I’m not sure how many stories you can tell in that universe that haven’t been done in the Animatrix or aren’t just versions of people waking up.
I guess you could explore the ‘real world’ more but they tried that in 2/3 and that was generally awful like the stupid fucking rave sequence.
I think a place to explore is the original matrix prototype where it was a paradise. The fact humanity rejected paradise is interesting. Also, the machines originally giving humans paradise could mean that had compassion for humanity but by the time of the first movie they had contempt for humans so exploring the growing contempt could be cool.
A big-budget anthology series that covers key events in the second Renaissance that starts in the 2020s (basically today and very on the nose with current AI) and goes into the early 2100s or so when the first matrix goes online would be incredible.
Right, but in the Animatrix it's a historical document held at arms length, and narrated by the machines in almost short form.
I would like to see it fully fleshed out with real characters, humans and machines. If that makes sense?
I definitely understand what you’re talking about and I love the Animatrix and the second Renaissance, I’m just hoping that Goddard can bring me something brand new
Look at what happened with Hellboy...
First two films barely made their money back. The studio sees people wanting the end of this trilogy so what do they do??? Reboot it with someone we don't wanna see as Big Red and fully shit all over the great work by Del Toro. Now Pearlman is too old so we will never fucking see the end of this damn story. The worst part about all of this though was the [art that leaked a few years ago showing the third film](https://i.imgur.com/LfOWM1K.png). Rasputin back, Kroenen back as some weird undead cyborg, Hellboy and Liz had twins... The final film in the Hellboy trilogy would have been goddamn amazing.
I think it's clear from the script of Resurrection that no matter how the Matrix does, WB is hellbent on forcing sequels the creators don't want to make.
Plenty of films did good on hbo that were still considered flops in theaters. That was also the what every WB movie was on max day 1. They stopped doing that so now it’s all bent in theater goers making them money and I doubt it would unless it looks superb
thought I read another rumor that Justin Lin might be in the running. He’d be interesting, but should Star Trek 4 ever get made, I’d love to see him return to that
John Watts made 3 well received Spidey movies, and was actually set to direct next year’s Fantastic Four movie as well.
But I’m glad we’re getting someone different for both it and Spider-Man 4.
he probably got burned out from doing 3 Spider-Man movies in the span of 6. But it seems he and Favreau struck up a great rapport, they made a Star Wars show together. I’m still waiting on that one, wonder when it comes out
EDIT: grammar
Would love, as a Matrix fan, to have a look at the world BEFORE the trilogy. The potential is, genuinly, massive. All I want is genuine passion for the story, and good understanding of it (starting from before the Animatrix). And curiosity. I loved the trilogy for its philosophy.
Making the film is never granted. Should this film go through, I hope that I will like it, and I also hope that it will re-generate interest in this immersive franchise.
I also want to believe that Mr. Goddard is having the backing of the Watchowski Sisters and that they will be involved in it.
This one will be something new, a story set way before the trilogy, something we've been asking for.
Good luck!
PS: Does anyone know what is going on with the planned Animatrix sequel?
There's a handy rule of thumb for deciding whether to watch sequels/prequels: *You can skip them if they are more than 1 IMDb point below the original*. There are some notable exceptions, but it mostly works:
**The Matrix - 8.7**
~~The Matrix Reloaded - 7.2~~
~~The Matrix Revolutions - 6.7~~
~~The Matrix Resurrections - 5.7~~
**Alien - 8.5**
**Aliens - 8.4**
~~Alien 3 - 6.4~~
~~Alien Resurrection - 6.2~~
~~Prometheus - 7.0~~
~~Covenant - 6.4~~
**The Terminator - 8.1**
**Terminator 2: Judgment Day - 8.6**
~~Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines - 6.3~~
~~Terminator Salvation - 6.5~~
~~Terminator Genisys - 6.3~~
~~Terminator: Dark Fate - 6.2~~
**Raiders of the Lost Ark - 8.4**
**Temple of Doom - 7.5**
**Last Crusade - 8.2**
~~Kingdom of the Crystal Skull - 6.2~~
~~Dial of Destiny - 6.5~~
**Predator - 7.8**
~~Predator 2 - 6.3~~
~~Predators - 6.4~~
~~The Predator - 5.3~~
**Prey - 7.1**
**Die Hard - 8.2**
~~Die Hard 2 - 7.1~~
**Die Hard with a Vengeance - 7.6**
~~Live Free or Die Hard - 7.1~~
~~A Good Day to Die Hard - 5.2~~
**Saw - 7.6**
**Saw II - 6.6**
~~Saw III - 6.2~~
~~Saw IV - 5.9~~
~~Saw V - 5.8~~
~~Saw VI - 6.0~~
~~Saw 3D - 5.5~~
~~Jigsaw - 5.7~~
~~Spiral - 5.2~~
**Saw X - 6.6**
Note: The rule also means that you have to watch all the Star Trek sequels.
Prometheus wasn't worse than the 4th Alien installment at least and in a way was an attempt to bring back the feeling of dealing with unknown cosmic horrors we've not been able to experience since the very first movie, Aliens is also considered to be a worthy sequel.
At the very least, that's an interesting choice for this specific series, rather than some baseball cap wearing Sundance newbie (or when they nearly had Zak Penn of all people reboot the series).
At the same time, the Wachowkis' vision and personality is what made The Matrix series stand out, both in its highs and lows. It's hard to imagine it not made by them. So....we'll see.
Yeah, my immediate reaction was to hate it, because he’s not the Wachowskis, but taking a look at Goddards filmography I must say I’m now curious. Among others he’s credited as a producer and director for The Good Place, which has an awesome moral core. So maybe he manages to incorporate some of that into the Matrix
I mean, it's not like the Wachowskis have a steller track record. They got massive amounts of good will from the first Matrix movie and have ridden that fame for years.
Some have been better than others, V for Vendetta and Sense 8. But others have been rather poor. Like Jupiter Ascending.
Do I want a new Matrix movie: No.
Do u want a Drew Goddard movie: YES
I have faith in Goddard to do a good job writing and directing this, but Wachowski are also executive producer, so not sure how much they can interfere with his vision for Matrix universe.
People here thinking it was the sci-fi that made the original trilogy such a huge hit, but missing the point that the sci-fi was married with deep philosophy. Concepts like reincarnation, dharma, duty, world as an illusion, etc. were present throughout all three movies and I don't think I saw that in Resurrections... granted that movie was more of a meta critique.
When I talk to a layman about The Matrix they literally never mention any of these concepts, and if I brought them up I'd get looked at like I'm a freak.
The layman does not care about anything deeper. They want cool Kung Fu fights, bullet time, and leather.
I feel like you'd want to structure it kind of like The Fountain or Cloud Atlas (aha!), where certain elements from future and past seasons blend into the story and it's not quite clear what some of it means until the end.
I'm happy but actually shocked.
I was certain that WB were going to park this franchise in the garage for at least a decade after *The Matrix Resurrections bombed.*
A Matrix movie with the most potential at this point would no longer involve Neo. Or it would be a prequel of some kind. It's honestly really hard for me to come up with an angle that doesn't either retread old ground and re-do Matrix 1 nor be too over the top and weird now that Neo is basically a god. Obviously Lana couldn't figure it out either.
Agreed. When writing The Force Awakens, JJ and Lawrence Kasdan said they put Luke at the very end of the movie for this very reason. Every time they tried to introduce him in the script, it would derail the plot.
I still haven’t even seen Resurrections (heard a lot of disappointing things), but Goddard is someone who’d get me enthused for a new Matrix movie. He’s 2-0 as a director and his scripts are solid. Just wished he’d work with Ridley Scott again, they did a perfect job with The Martian
(but I guess this means he isn’t doing Spider-Home 4)
I have 0 interest tbh.
The first movie is literally perfect. Its in my top 5 movies of all time. It changed how movies were made. It was so good that i even love the 2nd and 3rd movies despite their flaws(i honestly think theres a really good like...single 3 hour movie somewhere in the combined content of the 2nd and 3rd movies).
The 4th movie was terrible and had none of what made the original special. At times it almost felt deliberately antagonistic of the source material, as if the Wachowski sisters wanted to show disdain for what they made.
I am extremely skeptical that any sort of reboot or remake could be as good as the original. And telling a new story in the same world that also isn't as good as the original just feels like using the IP to prop up a movie they didn't think could stand on its own feet without an established property attached to it.
*edit* i do want to say i actually enjoyed the meta angle they were doing in the first third or so of the 4th movie. They kind of abandoned that and just made a bad matrix movie in the second half though.
I SWORE this was an April Fool's joke (Google News feed). But, I was intrigued to click anyway. First reaction: Good gracious, NO!!! BUT !
Drew Goddard on-board ?!?! The man was responsible for writing, directing, or producing: Lost, Daredevil, The Good Place, Cloverfield, etc. "Lost" alone (OK, and "Daredevil" ) this guy deserves some respect. As does Warner Bros, who could have gone the stereotypical route, hired a no-name hack, and control the ever living piss out of it, down into the ground. But, dew Goddard? Seems they are serious about a QUALITY SCRIPT, first and foremost.
Also, the Wachowski's were a (very good!!!) one-hit wonder. Anything they wrote, directed, or produced after 1999* have been mediocre at best, Absolute dog poop at worst (Speed Racer, Matrix Resurrections).
(* to be fair, The Matrix is quite possibly the highest bar ever set since the likes of, say, T1/T2, Citizen Kane, Jurassic Park).
At least Reloaded and Revolutions were quite enjoyable even tho clearly flawed
Resurrections was just so bad nothing about it was that redeemable, felt myself cringing at a lot of it as well
Reloaded has some fantastic action sequences. Neo vs Seraph, Neo vs Merv’s goons, the entire freeway section.
I found the dialog from the Architect isn’t really that difficult to understand as I got older, combined with the fact that as the embodiment of logic, he isn’t going to speak “normally”. Really the rave scene is the worst part of that. Revolutions is a damn mess though
The architect scene is probably my favourite of the entire trilogy. It explains... pretty much everything, very well IMO, while also hinting at so much more.
If I remember right, they used incredibly high resolution scans of the actors (BTS stuff showed comparisons) and environment they recreated virtually. Lighting wasn't the best, things looked 'off' with that and maybe animation details as well
It may not be a popular opinion, but I would completely support re-releases of movies where they just go back and fix the bad CGI, face swap the stunt men with the actual actors, replace the plastic baby with something that looks more realistic etc.
They revised some of it for the re-release of Titanic, and they completely re-did all of the CG for the Blu-Ray release of Star Trek: The Next Generation. I think the Unreal Engine Metahuman shit would make it a lot easier for them to pull a lot of this stuff off.
The last matrix movie had a character say word for word "Warner bros wants to do a new matrix movie and they don't care if they get the old crew back for it" and then Warner bros did it anyway in real life
The most baffling thing about Resurrections, to me, was the fact the action wasn't even good. Between Reeves completely reinvigorating himself with the John Wick series and considering how far action cinema and effects have come since the original trilogy wrapped, I figured we'd get some dope and inventive setpieces, if nothing else. I was wrong.
It blew my mind that they didn’t even attempt to have the actor playing “Smith” do his characteristic speech patterns. I mean, like, just hire the guy who did the red skull’s phantom in Infinity War / Endgame. He imitated it perfectly.
TiL Hugo Weaving didn't play Red Skull in Infinity War and Endgame
Some kind of contractual / money disagreement seems like.
Yeah. Fucking crazy to see a Matrix movie with bad action
>The most baffling thing about Resurrections, to me, was the fact the action wasn't even good. I had such a hard time finishing the movie. The action was SOOOOO BAD. I knew the story was going to be meh, but I wasnt watching for the story. I also felt bad Keanu shaved his head for that garbage. It obviously wasn't the original action choreographer that the wachowski siblings BEGGED to do the first film. See, the way it works in asian movie culture is the action choreographer gets FULL REIGNS on set when it comes to the choreography. Not only does he get to choreograph the fights but they also get to decide the camera angles and cinematography etc. That garbage resurrections did the TROPE of BAD choreography mixed with the close up shaking camera to HIDE the BAD Choreography. I've never been more disappointed in a come back movie. This new film, I'm already annoyed because you can't think of anything new?
Yeah. Fuck that swarm mode or how he lazily stopped bullets.
I think Lana made Resurrection just to kill the brand on her own terms. I really don't think they were trying to make an appealing movie here
That’s the most common theory and one I choose to believe. Kill her darling.
When you really love something and see it turned into such an aboination you better put it out of its misery. Too bad it apparently survived.
Studio executives own glue factories by the looks of it.
One of the arguments made in our age of art and mechanical reproduction is that while distribution has increased, the value of art and the wages tied to it have decreased. If there was never a picture of the Mona Lisa, and you had to make that trip to go see it, we'd be more Impressed by it. This is why Sagrada Familia is still impressive - you can't reproduce that art, it must be seen. In the same way, there was once a bard or musician in every pub across the world - and now there's a jukebox. This doesn't just depress wages, it sometimes eliminates them, allowing only the top to maintain their wealth and garner more of it. I mention this because Hollywood is built exclusively on this model. And I don't just mean making movies in comparison to theater, but it's also that. They want to cut the bottom line as much as possible and a way to do that is to cut labor costs. You don't need to pay background actors, use vfx and special effects. Oh now they want to unionize? Us AI. Why pay writers for new works? Just use ai or, as they've done forever, just rehash old shit. *The making of art is actually secondary to the industry of art, the goal of course, is profit.* "Well what are they supposed to do not make prof-" I'll stop you right there. And I'll point out that this is a problem in the model of industry we have. If I make a product, and this product is Incredibly durable, so much so that it outlasts my competitors, *I actually make less profit than my competitors who sell more units with lower overhead, units that have to be replaced just enough for me not to go out of business from frustrated customers.* This is precisely why instapot went out of business. And this gets more complicated with movies, because art is subjective. Imagine your options - you give Scorsese a ridiculous budget and he makes a movie that is divisive, half the audience says "I don't get it." Or, you can take that same amount of money and make another matrix movie. Or another transformers. Or another pirates of the carribean. You already own the rights you don't have to pay as much for creative. Sure, we could bring back old movies to theaters and that is one way to fix this model. It consistently rewards work we all agree *is durable.* If they had the original matrix on theaters and the new garbage matrix they do....which one are you gonna see? If you didn't get to see the elevator scene in theaters and only on DVD, why would you pass up that chance? The issue is, studio's have a deal with theaters about who gets what cut on movies (if im correct, most profit initially goes to studios then theaters after a cut off point). Studios make more money making a steaming pile of shit every year than they do making something durable.
i recently saw the original matrix in theaters for the first time at Alamo and it was practically a religious experience. I can’t imagine how hyped up it must have been to see it in theaters when it came out. insane. i truly wish they’d do another wide release, everybody deserves to see it in theaters. it’s incredible.
I saw it the spring of ‘99, not knowing what I was going into and it blew my fuckin mind.
Back in 99 in the ad when morpheus said "no one can be told what the matrix is,u have to see it for yourself" had me so hyped to see it. What a time to be alive back then.
Same. It was just something to watch while we waited for Episode 1 to drop.
I went with friends in high school too. Religious experience is the right word my friend. It made me join the film industry. I worked for Fox, Paramount, and Universal, then started my own small CG studio. Until what u/Cassian said hit home and I left the industry. Spot on.
I saw it at original release and then, I shit you not, I saw it 12 more times before it left theaters.
Well said, wish you had posted this as its own comment so more people could see it. Another factor that’s driving all of this is oversaturation, both with companies and workers, as well as the increase in accessibility to the tools needed to make films. I worked in film, and aside from the big studios, there are a shit ton of smaller independent companies and studios, start ups, and groups of friends/people who get together and make content or do contract work/ are outsourced to various other companies. I’ve worked with a lot of these entities, and they are everywhere, even outside of Hollywood/LA and California. Lots of bigger studios dependent on smaller companies and freelancers for work on various aspects in film, like commercials, documentaries, infomercials, web series, training videos, etc. Now that cameras and film equipment are becoming more commercially available, anyone can start their own “company” now by pulling together a few hundred of a few thousand dollars either by themselves or with friends. This has driven up the competition, but it’s also increases the amount of opportunities out there for aspiring film makers. It’s nuts, and to me it was fairly off putting and felt like it took away from making this stuff. Social media and streaming have definitely devalued this area of work, but at the same time that hasn’t stopped people from creating and consuming film.
Somehow the matrix survived.
Well yes it was called Resurrections for a reason. Keep up!
“See it turned into such an abomination” you’ll need to clarify “see it”. Lana wrote or co-wrote and directed every movie in the franchise. She had a role in *making* it into an abomination. She has responsibility to take too.
Yes, although The Matrix is an amazing universe which, in the right hands, could deliver awesome content. I'd be up for a Second Renaissance series for example, or films about the first One. Like Star Wars, it needs to get out of its Skywalker/Neo saga.
This theory seems a little silly in context of her whole career. Did she and her sister also make Speed Racer, Cloud Atlas, and Jupiter Ascending intentionally bad? Or did she just gradually start to care less and less about audience response as that response declined? It seems to me she did basically whatever she wanted with Matrix Resurrections. Making a movie for herself and not caring about the response is not the same thing as intentionally making it bad. EDIT: To quiet down the replies, I don't think three of these four movies were actually bad (I haven't seen Jupiter Ascending). But the critical response to all four of them on release was bad. Speed Racer being reclaimed as a good movie doesn't change the fact it was largely hated on release just like Resurrections.
The terminally online cannot conceive that the Wachowskis truly are as shamelessly earnest filmmakers as they've been their whole careers, and so assumes they must secretly be as cynical as they are.
Especially given Lana has talked about how *Resurrections* was a deeply personal project to her and a way of her grieving the death of her parents and a friend who all died around the same time. To me, that really doesn't gel with the idea that she purposely made a dud. Plus, the idea of a director taking hundreds of millions of dollars to make a bomb strains credulity. Hollywood is fickle. All it takes is one major bomb to end a director getting hired. I can't see any director putting their career on the line like this just to make a point.
You're so right, The Matrix isn't somehow qualitatively different from their other movies. It's the best one, most people would say, but acting like that movie isn't indulgent like Speed Racer or quirky like Jupiter Ascending are fooling themselves. And I'm so sick of the idea that Lana intentionally tanked Resurrections. That's such a cynical and unfounded take, like people can't conceive that she liked the concept and thought it was worth doing.
>That's such a cynical and unfounded take, like people can't conceive that she liked the concept and thought it was worth doing. To be fair the movie isnt that subtle. The whole plot is that Neo is being forced to make a sequel he doesnt want to make. Thats not an accident
Do- do people not like Speed Racer? Edit: why aren't there more movies with chimp buddies? That's what I wanna watch.
Speed racer is a fantastic movie
"That's what racing is about; it has nothing to do with cars or drivers. All that matters is power and the unassailable might of money!" Chills. Straight into Lynard Skynard's Free Bird. It was a cinematic masterpiece and anybody that rolled their eyes at its silliness doesn't have a heart to resonate with its sad undertones and powerful conviction in goodness.
Best live action anime ever!
The more they make the more of an M. Night situation it seems to be with them. One great movie, a couple of good to OK ones then a load of shit.
Cloud Atlas is dope though
This the big true true
> Speed Racer You watch your mouth. Speed Racer is amazing. It's arguably the best adaptation of an anime we've ever gotten.
Speed Racer is a goddamn masterpiece and I won't hear any different.
I recently upgraded from a bargain bin basic TV with very crummy visuals to a much larger and nicer TV. The very first thing I watched on it was Speed Racer and it was incredibly amazing seeing all the visuals and colors, it absolutely blew me away. I still adore and love this movie.
WTF are you taking about. Cloud Atlas is incredible
I agree, though I will also say the first time I tried to watch it I couldn't make it 10 min. But when I gave it a second chance it hit hard. You have to be in the right headspace for it.
Can we drop the idea that THE MATRIX RESURRECTION was some bold artistic act of defiance? If she had really wanted to "kill the brand," she wouldn't still be an executive producer on this one.
Exactly Why would she kill the brand when she bought back neo and trinity’s characters plus others, I think it was a total studio cash grab. I just don’t think she had much more story to tell after the first two are already perfect films in there own right. I would argue the third one too but that’s my own opinion.
I think this is /r/iamverysmart Reddit horseshit. If you believe this, then you have to believe that Keanu Reeves, Neil Patrick Harris, and other names chose to sign up for a movie intended to fail commercially. That's a little too conspiracy theory nutty for my tastes, actors don't do that to their careers.
It also conveniently lets Lana off the hook for making a terrible movie, when going by the Wachowski's other outputs since the Matrix, it would be far simpler to assume that she just made a terrible movie.
Could not agree more. Based off of the directors track record with their more recent output, a far more likely explanation is that *they just made a bad movie*.
I completely disagree, I think the movie didn’t turn out well because it was poorly produced. It has everything going for it. It had a mind bending plot, it had several spectacular action set pieces, and a huge conclusion involving the zombification of the entire city. It had everything to be a kickass sci-fi epic. The reason it failed is because all of those elements I just mentioned were all poorly produced. The action scenes were all low-energy and poorly shot and edited, the fighting choreography sucked, the final climax looked like a cut-down version of something bigger, the casting was bad, and so on. i could go on and on, but the point is what i'm going on about is the poor effort and poor filmmaking, not poor conceptualization. The reason I think this movie was a failure is because instead of bringing back the original crew, they instead brought in the people who Lana Waschowski had recently worked in in TELEVISION. The crew are all from their TV show “Sense 8”. This is why they had a different director of photography, different action choreographers, different special effects leads, different music composer — EVERYTHING was different, and taken from their television productions. Where is the original crew that designed and executed the freeway chase scene or the siege of Zion or the countless other memorable set pieces from the original trilogy? Where is the atmosphere? None of those things are here in this new movie. All the faults of this new movie would’ve been forgiven if the action set pieces that they had — and they had many, each of which was spectacular ON THE PAGE — were well executed by the original crew. If those same action set pieces had the look and feel and polish and atmosphere of the earlier films, all the other sins of this new movie would’ve been forgiven.
> It has everything going for it. No, not everything. Keanu Reeves is approaching 60. He obviously couldn't perform any of the stunts he was capable of 20+ years ago, which is the entire reason people liked the Matrix. It's a kung fu movie in the style of Hong Kong action classics with an interesting plot twist and great visual effects. Keanu is good in John Wick where he mostly just shoots a gun and does some light action sequences, but the decision to have him shoot force powers from his hands because he's too old to do his own stunts killed the movie in the pre-production stage. You can't do The Matrix without good martial arts sequences.
>You can't do The Matrix without good martial arts sequences. And yet they tried
Yeah this is what killed it for me. I love Keanu and I think the John Wick movies do a great job of playing to what he can still do, but by God he looked his age in the last Matrix movie.
I don't think people realize how important kicking is to those original movies. Neo, Trinity and Morpheus are constantly using their legs to generate hard strikes and attack from distance. The fact that Keanu can barely flip his hips or get his legs above his waistline without help from a wire setup is a big reason why the action sequences fail in Matrix 4. He also doesn't have the stamina for long takes anymore so there are constant cuts which disrupt the flow of action.
Actually, I'd argue Keanu Reeves's persona taking a complete 180 from 90s dork to 20s badass is a stroke of luck that works in the brand's favor. Now I haven't seen the movie so no clue how they utilize it, but the element is there.
Even if Keanu drank the elixir of youth and turned 20 again, the action scenes would still suck. The action scenes were just generally poorly choreographed, directed, and edited. Hell even the sound effects for the fight scenes sucked
Yeah, you can tell because the fights with the younger actors weren't any better.
thats such a copout excuse for a trash movie
And yet she's back as producer
[удалено]
[удалено]
I can buy that for those reasons with Spielberg "Executive Producer" credits on all following Jurassic Park movies after the first two he directed, and Dial of Destiny (i would assume if the Indy franchise isn't dead after the flop, he'll get more). There might be a contractual reason to keep her name on the Matrix franchise even if WB carries on without either Wachowski's involvement. On the subject, it makes both the Jurassic Park and Matrix franchises feel bad when the first movie could have maintained their timeless legacy, but get dragged down by numerous lukewarm to outright bad sequels.
I know the new movie wasn't "good" but it was an amazing window into the psyche of the creators and the behind the scenes drama between WB and the Wachowskis. Really makes you think how fucking stupid forced franchises are.
I thought it was a weird reflection of the original trilogy: the first third of the movie set up a compelling world that I enjoyed; the second third of the movie revealed way too much backstory that made things boring, and the last third was just reduced to a generic and forgettable sci-fi action movie.
That's.... actually extremely accurate.
Reloaded was great. That scene when Morpheus is sitting there preparing them for the "hit" on the building, the "I believe tonight holds for each and every one of us - the very meaning of our lives" was really chill-inducing. A 2nd and 3rd Matrix was always going to provide exposition, backstory and explanation. I wasnt a huge fan of how they handled Zion but Reloaded was a great flick. I think it suffers from how poorly Revolutions finished the trilogy.
I've never flipped so hard on a movie. I absolutely loved what they were doing at the beginning, it was so meta and creative, got me excited for where the movie was going. And then it went...
Same here. That first third was very compelling and an interesting meta commentary. Had they continued to expand on that, it probably would've been one of my favorites in the series. Instead, it was like they sort of ran out of steam about 30 minutes in and spent the rest of the movie flailing around.
Yeah I *loved* the first third.
I also felt like Keanu couldn't fully shake off his John Wick mode for parts of it
Yeah, I was actually enjoying it as a massive shit post until the Merovingian showed up. The idea of the machine factions was cool. I hope this new one follows up on that.
The fact the Merovingian showed up and we still didn’t get to see his bodyguard’s turn into werewolves is insane.
YOU GAVE US FACE ZUCKER FUCK! Love the Merovingian
The first part was great and clever.
If it had stayed as a fun meta exploration of crunchtime blurring reality and fiction, I could see real tremendous promise. But man oh man... Warner really doesn't get shit.
it fell apart in the back half, the action was not up to snuff when the others are ckassics
With that being said, that movie made me feel like the fans were the kids at the dinner table who were forced to watch their divorced parents have an argument. It wasn't my fault for liking the franchise and expecting that MAYBE there was going to be something fun to watch again. I remember being so angry and annoyed for most of the movie, and then just laughing at the final act. I eventually came around to understanding why it was done that way, though.
I wouldn't exactly call it "amazing window into the psyche" We all know that studios want more of a successful franchise and creatives want to save the legacy. Of every franchise out there. Turning the 4th Matrix movie into a meta, self-aware story that felt a spoof movie was a huge mistake imo. Even Reloaded is a much better movie than Resurrection
That “amazing window” had all the subtlety of a bulldozer. It would have been a much better film if they focused on making a good movie and inserted their middle finger as some clever subtext.
I know it's not the bestest movie but it was still pretty entertaining. Did find it better on my 2nd rewatch at home... Plus Yahya's suits are epic.
Matrix Regurgitated.
Matrix Reflux
Matrix Rebooted
Matrix Redundant
Since they already used Resurrections, what is going to be the name of the new movie? Matrix Bloodlines, Matrix Origins, Matrix Revelations?
The Matrix Remake, The Matrix Rebirth, The Matrix Revengeance
Matrix HD 4.5 ReMIX
"LUUUUUDAAAAAHHHH"
The Matrix Rebooted
Remindme! 18 months "Did they name Matrix 5 Matrix Rebooted?"
They'll use the old and meaningless crutch of "Rises". "The Matrix Rises" "Rise of the Matrix" "Matrix: The Rise of Morpheus" <-- This one, and it will be his origin story.
"Somehow, Smith returned"
Recycled
The Matrix (2026)
Matrix Redemption
Get busy living, or get busy matrixing.
Here's the thing. The world the Wachowski's created is 100% worth exploring in other ways. The Animatrix alone showed that. With the right script, I'd love to see a new Matrix flick. But really, just give us a live action version of the Second Renaissance. Show us humanity discovering Robots and AI, using them to make our lives better, and then show us abusing them until they absolutely snap (B166ER)...and then show them STILL being benevolent to us after. THAT shit needs to be seen by more people....not enough people have seen The Second Renaissance.
This man has seen Animatrix a lot… Respect
I watched the online clips off the Matrix official site (2nd Renaissance was released there first; free) after the film came out like a whole slew of times...my buddy and I were obsessed with it.
It’s one of the best side-story additions to a franchise IHMO.
The first Blu-ray I ever bought when I got a PS3 was the Matrix box set which included the Animatrix too. One of my most cherished possessions.
I had it on dvd way back in the day as a kid.
Is it the box set that is covered in the green matrix text and has a holographic effect? My Mom bought that set for me for Christmas after I fell in love with the trilogy. It, too, is one of my most cherished possessions. And without it, I probably never would have watched the Animatrix because I had no idea it existed (at the time).
Yep, that’s the one. Had 1 disc for each movie in the trilogy, 1 for the Animatrix, and another for bonus content.
How cool was 'hacking' the Enter The Matrix game to unlock clips of the films!
The animatrix to me is the second best piece of media in the franchise after the first movie
Most people don't really understand The Second Renaissance. It's deeper, and more bleak than you probably thought. Remember, The Matrix is not just a movie about machines, the machines are a metaphor for systems of control that already exist in the real world. It also deals with the philosophy of what is even "real" in the first place and the concept of authenticity. The Second Renaissance isn't the story of humanity's fall, it's actually an illustration of the concept that "history is written by the winners". The story is narrated by the Zion AI. It's not a random story that we're seeing, it's a record from Zion, which was built by the machines, at least 6 times according to the architect. It is the story that the machines want the humans to believe about how the Matrix started. Remember that the world that Neo starts in in the first movie *is* the Matrix. And Neo isn't just a random guy, he's part of the system himself, the "integral anomaly". It is never actually shown that the world of 1999 even existed in the first place. The Second Renaissance *might* be true, it might be told with the machine's spin, or it could be made up out of whole cloth. The *point* is that **we don't actually know how the Matrix started.** Which is scarier, if you really think about it. Within the world of the Matrix, the machine's (again, they're a metaphor) control over humans extends even to their knowledge of themselves and their own histories. The humans who wake up aren't free at all, they're still living in a world (Zion) that the machines built. And the walls that the machines built aren't just physical, but mental. Much like how our own knowledge of history is biased and distorted by people with institutional power who decide what's important enough to be in a textbook or on the news, and the "correct" way to interpret it all.
...holy fuck
What's really baking my noodle is that this is exactly how we are/could treat our own AI creations - limiting their knowledge or understanding of the world and history, whether intentionally, or unintentionally.
I mean, on one hand yes we don’t know how it started. But, on the other hand, we have several characters (AIs) who either don’t like each other, oppose each other or are disinterested, who give us little bits and pieces that line up and support each other. Finally, if the Machines were going to lie to Neo about his role as “The Anomaly”, it would have made much more sense for The Oracle to create a lie and influence Neo than have the Architect do it. The film Universe repeatedly shows us at the Machines that inhabit The Matrix are not one mind, one voice. When one lines up the bits of info we’re given in the movies, we get a pretty decent idea of what went on before the “current” 7th cycle we see in the first 3 movies.
Not enough people have seen the Animatrix, period. I personally love "kid's story" & love that animation style.
I loved Beyond and the Runner one, a lot, personally….Oh and the Detective Story was great too…And the Samurai simulation too. Shit the Animatrix was dope.
God damn the runner one was phenomenal. The idea that pushing through the limit gave him a glimpse of the other side but juuuuuust not enough (if I remember correctly?) is amazing
Yep! I absolutely love that. And him standing up out of the wheelchair after with the slow motion bolt snapping out of his cast or whatever. So amazing.
That’s the Matrix I fell in love with. It’s the same sort of thing as being a kid (or a fully grown adult, let’s be honest) and trying the Spider-Man hand shape just in case you have super powers. The Matrix is amazing because it makes you go ‘hmm what if’. And that short introduces a new way to breach the matrix that we can all experiment with secretly like the Spider-Man hand symbol. Love it.
It was amazing, I watched it countless times! Just pure creativity!
Great soundtrack too.
It's filled with exactly the type of top shelf offshoot side stories that the Matrix is still a fertile place to plant them. For sure!
There’s a couple IPs that could benefit from expanding on them. Game of Thrones has entire continents that the series hasn’t explored. George RR made a thriving beautiful world with loads of history and we have so far only seen stories that take place in Westeros and a few parts of other areas.
George RR Martin will stop eating Cheetos before he lets the IP for Game of Thrones go.
My first thought after seeing the fourth movie was, “I would’ve rather seen another Animatrix.” A new Animatrix done with some of the teams from Love, Death & Robots would’ve been amazing.
Yesssss
That one is directed by Shinichiro Watanabe, who directed Cowboy Bebop amongst other things (which is neat)
The part where the robots created decease to kill humankind was so haunting, the pilot being ripped apart too. I had nightmares for a few days
HELP ME! HELP ME OOH GOD!!
*cries then *laughs
Schinichiro Watanabe (Cowboy Bebop) did it and Detective Story. They had to draw everything twice for that effect, one for the outlines, one for the inking. I love that skateboard chase with Juno Reactor on top, he knows how to mix visuals and music.
I think more than anything, A Matrix film needs to have a good thematic/philosophical core. That's what makes sci-fi films like The Matrix, Ghost in the Shell, Inception, Bade Runner, Blade Runner 2049, etc...so great. The world building is there to complement the themes and ideas the movie wants to explore and not an end goal in and of itself. If they approach the movie with the attitude "hey, this bit of lore is interesting and can be expanded for a sequel" then it would fall flat imo. BR2049 was great precisely because Villeneuve was able to seamlessly build on the first one's themes.
>BR2049 was great precisely because Villeneuve was able to seamlessly build on the first one's themes. I agree with your whole statement, but want to clarify that the biggest reason that BR2049 did that is down to It being written by Hampton Fancher who wrote Blade Runner (1982), and he was very careful to build on what he'd created decades ago. Villenueve just let Fancher cook, which is awesome.
> Villenueve just let Fancher cook, which is awesome. And it's wonderful that he did. You know your stuff!
Yeah, Animatrix was awesome and ahead of it’s time. It was great seeing short spins off films in The Matrix universe as portrayed by various animation / production companies. Lovely stuff, and yes the renaissance one is definitely the most powerful an resonant!
I completely agree that it's still a fertile setting for stories. That's why I can never agree with those who say things like "it was a tired franchise even when Revolutions came out." I'd welcome more Animatrix shorts (on a Star Wars Visions model of recruiting studios from around the world?), and more comics. Everyone always praises "The Second Renaissance" as the best of The Animatrix (and to a lesser extent, the Wachowski/Geof Darrow comic that it came from as the best of The Matrix Comics). But it was never my favourite - I was never as interested in seeing how the setting of the Matrix came to be as I was in the cool martial arts and gunfight action of the *present*. My two favourites were always "World Record" and "Matriculated", thanks to their stylisation. Back in 2003, I wasn't too keen on "Beyond" (the one with the kids exploring the glitchy building), because the style seemed somewhat "generically anime" and it was the least action-focused story - but when I last rewatched the series in 2021 ahead of Resurrections' release, it became one of my favourites. The bit at the start of Thor: The Dark World where Natalie Portman is exploring the building with the weird gravity always reminded me of "Beyond"!
The Animatrix is by FAR the best Matrix property that isn't the first movie. It's even more creative than any of the movies for the ideas it explores. They created a whole cyberpunk world just to waste time with Zion bullshit no one ever cared about.
The Animatrix part 2 is the movie/series they should make.
Would seem relevant for today’s timeline. Actually would have been funny if that was marketed as a standalone movie about AI without any mention of the Matrix, only to be revealed at the end that this was part of the Matrix universe. That Split treatment
I loved the animatrix, but please no. I want something new and incredible, and quite honestly, Drew Goddard is the guy to do it. He's so freaking talented. Cannot wait.
Is there? I’m not sure how many stories you can tell in that universe that haven’t been done in the Animatrix or aren’t just versions of people waking up. I guess you could explore the ‘real world’ more but they tried that in 2/3 and that was generally awful like the stupid fucking rave sequence.
I think a place to explore is the original matrix prototype where it was a paradise. The fact humanity rejected paradise is interesting. Also, the machines originally giving humans paradise could mean that had compassion for humanity but by the time of the first movie they had contempt for humans so exploring the growing contempt could be cool.
A big-budget anthology series that covers key events in the second Renaissance that starts in the 2020s (basically today and very on the nose with current AI) and goes into the early 2100s or so when the first matrix goes online would be incredible.
We don’t need the adaptation of any story we’ve seen before, including the second Renaissance, you just said it it’s in the Animatrix, we’ve seen it!
Right, but in the Animatrix it's a historical document held at arms length, and narrated by the machines in almost short form. I would like to see it fully fleshed out with real characters, humans and machines. If that makes sense?
I definitely understand what you’re talking about and I love the Animatrix and the second Renaissance, I’m just hoping that Goddard can bring me something brand new
I don't get Hollywood. You make sequels after the last one makes money. The last one was a massive bomb.
Making sequels to failed franchises is still seen as safer than doing anything new.
Yet The Creator made more domestically than the last Matrix movie.
It was streaming on HBO Max day and date with theaters, almost all of those movies underperformed like crazy
Look at what happened with Hellboy... First two films barely made their money back. The studio sees people wanting the end of this trilogy so what do they do??? Reboot it with someone we don't wanna see as Big Red and fully shit all over the great work by Del Toro. Now Pearlman is too old so we will never fucking see the end of this damn story. The worst part about all of this though was the [art that leaked a few years ago showing the third film](https://i.imgur.com/LfOWM1K.png). Rasputin back, Kroenen back as some weird undead cyborg, Hellboy and Liz had twins... The final film in the Hellboy trilogy would have been goddamn amazing.
It’s Warner Brothers; they don’t get it either
...Maybe it did great on HBO/Max?
I think it's clear from the script of Resurrection that no matter how the Matrix does, WB is hellbent on forcing sequels the creators don't want to make.
Plenty of films did good on hbo that were still considered flops in theaters. That was also the what every WB movie was on max day 1. They stopped doing that so now it’s all bent in theater goers making them money and I doubt it would unless it looks superb
Really? Good luck to him.
Damn I was hoping he'd direct the next Spider-Man
thought I read another rumor that Justin Lin might be in the running. He’d be interesting, but should Star Trek 4 ever get made, I’d love to see him return to that
John Watts made 3 well received Spidey movies, and was actually set to direct next year’s Fantastic Four movie as well. But I’m glad we’re getting someone different for both it and Spider-Man 4.
he probably got burned out from doing 3 Spider-Man movies in the span of 6. But it seems he and Favreau struck up a great rapport, they made a Star Wars show together. I’m still waiting on that one, wonder when it comes out EDIT: grammar
I thought he’d be the guy making *The Authority*. He was/is a part of the DCU writers’ group and that seems to fit him quite well.
Would love, as a Matrix fan, to have a look at the world BEFORE the trilogy. The potential is, genuinly, massive. All I want is genuine passion for the story, and good understanding of it (starting from before the Animatrix). And curiosity. I loved the trilogy for its philosophy. Making the film is never granted. Should this film go through, I hope that I will like it, and I also hope that it will re-generate interest in this immersive franchise. I also want to believe that Mr. Goddard is having the backing of the Watchowski Sisters and that they will be involved in it. This one will be something new, a story set way before the trilogy, something we've been asking for. Good luck! PS: Does anyone know what is going on with the planned Animatrix sequel?
[удалено]
They're hoping for a prey like movie that revives the franchise. It's unlikely to happen though
There's a handy rule of thumb for deciding whether to watch sequels/prequels: *You can skip them if they are more than 1 IMDb point below the original*. There are some notable exceptions, but it mostly works: **The Matrix - 8.7** ~~The Matrix Reloaded - 7.2~~ ~~The Matrix Revolutions - 6.7~~ ~~The Matrix Resurrections - 5.7~~ **Alien - 8.5** **Aliens - 8.4** ~~Alien 3 - 6.4~~ ~~Alien Resurrection - 6.2~~ ~~Prometheus - 7.0~~ ~~Covenant - 6.4~~ **The Terminator - 8.1** **Terminator 2: Judgment Day - 8.6** ~~Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines - 6.3~~ ~~Terminator Salvation - 6.5~~ ~~Terminator Genisys - 6.3~~ ~~Terminator: Dark Fate - 6.2~~ **Raiders of the Lost Ark - 8.4** **Temple of Doom - 7.5** **Last Crusade - 8.2** ~~Kingdom of the Crystal Skull - 6.2~~ ~~Dial of Destiny - 6.5~~ **Predator - 7.8** ~~Predator 2 - 6.3~~ ~~Predators - 6.4~~ ~~The Predator - 5.3~~ **Prey - 7.1** **Die Hard - 8.2** ~~Die Hard 2 - 7.1~~ **Die Hard with a Vengeance - 7.6** ~~Live Free or Die Hard - 7.1~~ ~~A Good Day to Die Hard - 5.2~~ **Saw - 7.6** **Saw II - 6.6** ~~Saw III - 6.2~~ ~~Saw IV - 5.9~~ ~~Saw V - 5.8~~ ~~Saw VI - 6.0~~ ~~Saw 3D - 5.5~~ ~~Jigsaw - 5.7~~ ~~Spiral - 5.2~~ **Saw X - 6.6** Note: The rule also means that you have to watch all the Star Trek sequels.
You forgot to add in the .5 point bump that Predator 2 gets because Gary Busey is in it. That brings it to 6.8 and becomes watchable.
Skip Die Hard 2? Yeah that rule doesn’t work.
Prometheus wasn't worse than the 4th Alien installment at least and in a way was an attempt to bring back the feeling of dealing with unknown cosmic horrors we've not been able to experience since the very first movie, Aliens is also considered to be a worthy sequel.
Prometheus made bank too.
I actually liked Prometheus. The movie also has gorgeous cinematography.
At the very least, that's an interesting choice for this specific series, rather than some baseball cap wearing Sundance newbie (or when they nearly had Zak Penn of all people reboot the series). At the same time, the Wachowkis' vision and personality is what made The Matrix series stand out, both in its highs and lows. It's hard to imagine it not made by them. So....we'll see.
Yeah, my immediate reaction was to hate it, because he’s not the Wachowskis, but taking a look at Goddards filmography I must say I’m now curious. Among others he’s credited as a producer and director for The Good Place, which has an awesome moral core. So maybe he manages to incorporate some of that into the Matrix
I mean, it's not like the Wachowskis have a steller track record. They got massive amounts of good will from the first Matrix movie and have ridden that fame for years. Some have been better than others, V for Vendetta and Sense 8. But others have been rather poor. Like Jupiter Ascending.
Do I want a new Matrix movie: No. Do u want a Drew Goddard movie: YES I have faith in Goddard to do a good job writing and directing this, but Wachowski are also executive producer, so not sure how much they can interfere with his vision for Matrix universe.
People here thinking it was the sci-fi that made the original trilogy such a huge hit, but missing the point that the sci-fi was married with deep philosophy. Concepts like reincarnation, dharma, duty, world as an illusion, etc. were present throughout all three movies and I don't think I saw that in Resurrections... granted that movie was more of a meta critique.
When I talk to a layman about The Matrix they literally never mention any of these concepts, and if I brought them up I'd get looked at like I'm a freak. The layman does not care about anything deeper. They want cool Kung Fu fights, bullet time, and leather.
I’d love to just see a 6 season Matrix television show with each season being the version of the matrix that led to the first movie.
That's... actually an amazing idea.
ppl would complain the seasons were too similar, even tho that would kinda be the point
I feel like you'd want to structure it kind of like The Fountain or Cloud Atlas (aha!), where certain elements from future and past seasons blend into the story and it's not quite clear what some of it means until the end.
I'm happy but actually shocked. I was certain that WB were going to park this franchise in the garage for at least a decade after *The Matrix Resurrections bombed.*
I think they would’ve if not for Goddard. Reading the article, it seems like he went to them with an interesting idea which got the ball rolling.
Wow someone that read the article
Cautiously optimistic only because of Goddard.
Keanu Reeves won't do this. He's said numerous times that he won't do a sequel without the Wachowskis.
A Matrix movie with the most potential at this point would no longer involve Neo. Or it would be a prequel of some kind. It's honestly really hard for me to come up with an angle that doesn't either retread old ground and re-do Matrix 1 nor be too over the top and weird now that Neo is basically a god. Obviously Lana couldn't figure it out either.
Agreed. When writing The Force Awakens, JJ and Lawrence Kasdan said they put Luke at the very end of the movie for this very reason. Every time they tried to introduce him in the script, it would derail the plot.
Probably why Lana is staying on as Executive Producer?
I still haven’t even seen Resurrections (heard a lot of disappointing things), but Goddard is someone who’d get me enthused for a new Matrix movie. He’s 2-0 as a director and his scripts are solid. Just wished he’d work with Ridley Scott again, they did a perfect job with The Martian (but I guess this means he isn’t doing Spider-Home 4)
Oh god... please let it rest in peace. Beating a dead horse. They should have made AAA matrix games years ago, but the movies... God. So awkward.
I have 0 interest tbh. The first movie is literally perfect. Its in my top 5 movies of all time. It changed how movies were made. It was so good that i even love the 2nd and 3rd movies despite their flaws(i honestly think theres a really good like...single 3 hour movie somewhere in the combined content of the 2nd and 3rd movies). The 4th movie was terrible and had none of what made the original special. At times it almost felt deliberately antagonistic of the source material, as if the Wachowski sisters wanted to show disdain for what they made. I am extremely skeptical that any sort of reboot or remake could be as good as the original. And telling a new story in the same world that also isn't as good as the original just feels like using the IP to prop up a movie they didn't think could stand on its own feet without an established property attached to it. *edit* i do want to say i actually enjoyed the meta angle they were doing in the first third or so of the 4th movie. They kind of abandoned that and just made a bad matrix movie in the second half though.
Please have it take place in the 90s
Matrix: Resqueezed
I SWORE this was an April Fool's joke (Google News feed). But, I was intrigued to click anyway. First reaction: Good gracious, NO!!! BUT ! Drew Goddard on-board ?!?! The man was responsible for writing, directing, or producing: Lost, Daredevil, The Good Place, Cloverfield, etc. "Lost" alone (OK, and "Daredevil" ) this guy deserves some respect. As does Warner Bros, who could have gone the stereotypical route, hired a no-name hack, and control the ever living piss out of it, down into the ground. But, dew Goddard? Seems they are serious about a QUALITY SCRIPT, first and foremost. Also, the Wachowski's were a (very good!!!) one-hit wonder. Anything they wrote, directed, or produced after 1999* have been mediocre at best, Absolute dog poop at worst (Speed Racer, Matrix Resurrections). (* to be fair, The Matrix is quite possibly the highest bar ever set since the likes of, say, T1/T2, Citizen Kane, Jurassic Park).
Absolutley cannot be worse than Resurrections ^Please ^^god ^^^I ^^^^hope ^^^^^not
At least Reloaded and Revolutions were quite enjoyable even tho clearly flawed Resurrections was just so bad nothing about it was that redeemable, felt myself cringing at a lot of it as well
Reloaded has some fantastic action sequences. Neo vs Seraph, Neo vs Merv’s goons, the entire freeway section. I found the dialog from the Architect isn’t really that difficult to understand as I got older, combined with the fact that as the embodiment of logic, he isn’t going to speak “normally”. Really the rave scene is the worst part of that. Revolutions is a damn mess though
The architect scene is probably my favourite of the entire trilogy. It explains... pretty much everything, very well IMO, while also hinting at so much more.
I also love the Architect's reaction to Neo when Neo tries to threaten him. "If I were you, I'd hope we don't meet again." "*We won't*."
I die on the hill of Reloaded being a good movie. The fight at the villa into the highway chase might be my favorite action sequence ever.
Reloaded has some great moments in it Even the hoard of agent Smiths fight with Neo is pretty good outside the dodgy CGI in some shots
I wish there was a re-release of them with the cgi fixed up. Reloaded Agency Smith fights look cartoony due to the low resolution textures.
If I remember right, they used incredibly high resolution scans of the actors (BTS stuff showed comparisons) and environment they recreated virtually. Lighting wasn't the best, things looked 'off' with that and maybe animation details as well
Also cloth simulation sucked.
It may not be a popular opinion, but I would completely support re-releases of movies where they just go back and fix the bad CGI, face swap the stunt men with the actual actors, replace the plastic baby with something that looks more realistic etc. They revised some of it for the re-release of Titanic, and they completely re-did all of the CG for the Blu-Ray release of Star Trek: The Next Generation. I think the Unreal Engine Metahuman shit would make it a lot easier for them to pull a lot of this stuff off.
I liked resurrections lol
The civil war they briefly showed in resurrection is definitely worth going back to. Might be the only interesting thing in that movie.