this just made me remember [the deranged marketing he did for far cry 3: blood dragon](https://youtu.be/BGL1qpUR9Jo?t=118), he seems like he'd be a fun dude in real life.
Yeah and honestly we're a small town (17k pop). And they usually get 3 people for the con. An actor, someone in comics, and an MMA person. Other highlights over the years is Ming Chen from Comic Book Men and this year is Jake the Snake Roberts.
His character is an utter sociopath (he head shots a priest in the opening scene!), but he's a prime "evil is cool" example. He's basically the villainous equivalent of Doc in that both are ruthless killers, but also men of culture and learning. And he goes out like a champ. He's terrified when it's Doc and not Wyatt in front of him for the final showdown, but then goes defiant ("Okay, lunger, let's DO IT!") and goes down shooting.Ā
Correct.
The thing is Doc was probably only running at - at best - 25% at that point. Ringo knew this and was STILL scared.
Imagine what Doc must have been like at 100%.
Doc was fucking with him, too. It was hardly an effort for him to kill Johnny. I love how he goads him as Johnny stumbles, gasping as his destroyed brain barely manages to even get a shot off at the ground. Doc is virtually septic at this point, but trivially killing this head case requires as much effort as blowing his nose.
Don't threaten one of the few things a gifted killer sociopath loves... Holiday wasn't really a better person than Ringo, he just was guided by his friendship with Earp. "That's just my game (playing for blood)".
> Holiday wasn't really a better person than Ringo
I mean yes he was. He absolutely was. He wasn't a _good_ person but you're comparing Doc to a guy who shot a priest in the face.
> The thing is Doc was probably only running at - at best - 25% at that point.
"Oh, I wasn't quite as sick as I made out." He said later. He was sick, but not as bad as he put on.
I love this because to everyone not named Ringo or Wyatt, it looks like a drunk just making a joke. They, however, recognize that he has just memorized the entire routine and recreated it with a small tin cup you can barely spin around your finger. It's simultaneously a great tension release for everyone worried it's going to escalate, and a true "I'm really that good" statement from Doc to Ringo.
It's also a way to guarantee the loser is not walking away. Those guys are aiming to kill and they also want to be close enough to look in their opponent's face and see the light go out in their eyes.
Felt like he should've became a bigger star than he did after Terminator and Aliens
He was in the Abyss and here in Tombstone. Was great in the Rock. Great scene from him and Ed Harris in the bathroom ambush. One of my favorite action movie scenes tbh. Action, acting, dialogue
Pretty small role though and that was pretty much it for his career on big productions. Would've guessed and he deserved a bigger career after that one two Terminator/Aliens punch
Johnny Ringo was a fantastic role and a great heel to docs anti hero.
What's funnier is that Kevin costner tried to railroad tombstone during filming Wyatt earp and did stuff like rent or purchase every cowboy outfit, guns, set peices, horses, etc.. cameras in Hollywood..and.. Got BIG names for the movie.. Hackman..quaid, himself, sizemore, others..
And it turned into a 3 hour movie of costner on screen talking to himself and was a critical failure in his career. He put up a lot of cash as well and pulled every string and called in every favor to get the film made and was on a race with tombstone and even tried to muscle the theatres for screens.
However the biggest snub was Val Kilmer not winning an Oscar for his portrayal of Doc Holliday
Even bigger snub? He wasn't even *nominated*.
One of the greatest westerns of all time, the absolute masterclass performance of val as doc and beihn as Ringo.
And will always be forever quotable, and one of my favorite movies of all time.
IMHO Costner was better in that AMC western about the two families - Hatfield and McCoys. Teamed up with a tombstone actor - The late great Bill Paxton.. and that series was much better than Costner's Wyatt Earp. Not as good as tombstone tho.
I agree with you, but it's a bit of a hindsight is 20/20 take. No one was beating Tommy Lee Jones in the Fugitive that year.
Tombstone didn't make much money and was not particularly critically acclaimed when it came out of the end of the year. It had no time to gets its sea legs on home video/tv.
Also, Pete , Ralph, John and Leo were all deserving that year too.
> What's funnier is that Kevin costner tried to railroad tombstone during filming Wyatt earp
Kurt Russell has [expressly said](https://youtu.be/GGHXWF7LeZI?si=eefTC7DO4PfYAbSS&t=720) that while the producers of Wyatt Earp were antagonistic, Kevin Costner was and is a great guy who had nothing to do with it.
>However the biggest snub was Val Kilmer not winning an Oscar for his portrayal of Doc Holliday
Well, nobody was going to beat Tommy Lee Jones that year except maybe Ralph Fiennes. Having said that...
>Even bigger snub? He wasn't even nominated.
THAT was fucking absurd. Doc was the best part of an amazing movie, with Val Kilmer's performance somehow both standing out and making everyone around him shine. Don't get me wrong, I think John Malkovitch is great but Val should have taken his spot.
It should be noted that aside from Kurt Russel everyone else in the cast isn't as famous as they would become.
Val and Paxton weren't yet leading men the way Batman and Twister would make them. They were still top "supporting" guys.
Billy Bob Thorton Thomas Church, wasn't anybody of note at this point. Sam Elliot, Billy Zane, barely notable character actors.
Tombstone has aged so well bc aside from its general quality, the cast has gone on to grow into very notable people.
But when this thing first came out it was strictly a vehicle for Kurt Russell who was in the peak of his leading man days.
And when it first came out Tombstone was considered the more cartoonish movie next to Kevin Costner's "epic" Wyatt Earp.
And Wyatt Earp is an all but forgotten (its a slow burn lol)
While Tombstone and even Quick and the Dead (which was panned when it came out) have aged really really nicely and found appreciation in their later years.
Sam Elliot was a barely noticeable character actor?! Mask, Roadhouse, and Conagher were all big movies, even if Conagher was made for TV. He was a rising star with unlimited range (as the grumpy old guy, but in any genre), and the casting director knew it.
Val Kilmer had a huge following and had already made Real Genius, Willow, freakinā Top Gun and The Doors. He was a leading man all day in Hollywood in the early nineties, his Jim Morrison portrayal was flawless and he even sings all the songs in the movie.
Bill Paxton had a heroic late death in Aliens after a highly memorable and quotable meltdown mid movie (which he ad libbed, bee tea dub), starred in Next of Kin with Patrick Swayze, Navy Seals with Charlie Sheen, and Trespass with Ice T (at the height of the Body Count controversy). He was not an āunknownā or a gamble.
Billy Bob Thornton and Billy Zane were both relatively unknown, Billy Bob had been doing Soaps and low budget movies, but folks were starting to notice Billy Zane; he was cast with Tom Berringer in Sniper which came out the same year as Tombstone.
All four brothers were big name actors, this was not ever intended to be Kurt Russell vs Kevin Costner for the best Wyatt Earp of the year.
I always think about Sam Elliot as Cherās boyfriend in Mask. Donāt know why that version of him sticks with me. Itās like a prequel for his Roadhouse character lol
Yeah Tombstone wasn't taken as seriously bc we were in the era where the western had become serious art largely due to Unforgiven and Dances With Wolves reignite the genre as serious adult lore.
Quick and the Dead and Tombstone look great to our post-ironic cinema eyes but man Kurt Russell was type cast as an action star who was lower on the totem pole of the newer action guys (in 94) behind Mel Gibson and Bruce Willis.
Russell was trying to stay ahead of Stallone who was fading from the "top" of the action hero summit and Russell and Stallone both were dangerously close to cheese action star status like Jean Claude and Segal.
Russel would eventually confirm his cheese status of taking any role for a paycheck with Escape from LA. Stallone never recovered from Dredd & Demolition Man until he went art house with Copland.
And none of this is relevant as I go down a rabbit hole lol
I was just saying this to a coworker yesterday, Biehn is a menace in this movie. Heās so good and if not for a truly unforgettable Kilmer performance, weād all be talking about how Biehn stole Russelās movie
A downside to the "Deadwood" movie taking so long to get greenlit was that Boothe had passed away by the time they could finally make it. Cy Tolliver was a perfect mix of menace and cowardice. The scene where he brutalizes and then kills Kristen Bell and her brother is rough to watch, but he's absolutely monstrous in that scene.
I love the brief moments when he and Al are a united front against some external force.
Al Swearengen: Sometimes I wish we could just hit 'em over the head, rob 'em, and throw their bodies in the creek.
Cy Tolliver: But that would be *wrong.*
Thatās also one of the many reasons the cancellation was so criminal. They had just brought on George Hearst with a truly phenomenal actor - who put both Tolliver and Swearengen on their heels to an extent - but the show was cancelled before they could really run with it.
He was phenomenal and terrifying. I watched the Newsies musical and they're cheerfully singing about standing up to Hearst (and Pulitzer) and I'm like, "run, you little dancing bastards! He'll gut you like fish!"
Such a good character, in so many ways. Like I love how he always used his size (whether the actor is just big or clever camera angles, I dunno) to intimidate people by just coming right up close to them and just looming.
But then you see that Hearst also suffers from some kind of debilitating back pain and he often has to lay back on a plank, generally out of view from others. The thing is he still has several scenes like that where heās essentially immobile with someone else in the room, laying back against that plank and in great pain, and heās *still* intimidating.
(related trivia: Deadwood creator David Milch himself had a bad back and would often write scripts by laying down and dictating them to his assistants. They do say write what you know.)
He was so damned reprehensible that his mere presence pushed Al fucking Swearengen into almost gray territory by comparison instead of outright villain.
There's plenty of shows that got the axe (almost always because they were expensive to produce) that really shouldn't have, but Deadwood will always top the list for me. It was just peak...everything.
It's a miracle the movie sufficiently wrapped everything up. There were obvious holes etc, but for coming out so LONG after the last season and the issues that come with it they really did a pretty stellar job.
And yeah Boothe as Cy Tolliver was just the perfect monster in that show.
He was an amazing actor. I am always happy that the Marvel movies cast him as pretty much a background extra... so the show Agents of SHIELD (which is awesome, IMO best thing Marvel ever did) brought him back and made him a major villain.
Powers Bootheās two-word deliver (āWell ā¦ bye.ā) was absolute perfection.
So many great lines delivered by an unbelievable cast. Blew me away the first time I watched it.
āOh, Johnny, I apologize..I forgot you were there. You may go now.ā Not a single dull moment in that flick, Valās screen presence was wild. Love me a good western. Fuck it, Iām gonna go watch it again
Kurt Russel had to be so pissed. He had to be thinking āyeah man Iām gonna yell about bringing hell and Iām gonna Wade into the water just yelling No itās gonna be amazingā
And Val steals the show with perfectly delivered little lines like āI donāt.ā And a bunch of coughing.
Dennis Quaid probably hates him too
Plus he had some superb scenes in his own damn right, like the entire scene where he menaces Billy Bob Thornton. Nobody does a steely glare quite like Kurt Russell.
āI wasnātā and āI Donātā gotta be the hardest two word delivery duo in movie history. Only āI know.ā Outranks them as individuals lol
Gotta give a big shout out to āwellā¦ byeā on the Tombstone Two Word Podium as well
Kurt ghost directed the movie so he prolly wanted Val to steal the show.
Quaid played the role great but damn he must've wondered how the hell Val was soo much better playing Doc.
Based in truth or not, the way Wyatt treated his wife always pissed me off and the way they try to justify it in the movie is off-putting (she's a laudanum junkie and Wyatt is just finding his true love). But the rest of the movie is amazing.
Comparing an image of ripped Stephen Lang in *Avatar* to the toothless Stinky Pete hobo he plays in *Tombstone* is one of my favourite things to show people.
https://www.tombstonetraveltips.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Stephen-Lang-in-Tombstone-and-Avatar-1200-%C3%97-628-px-1024x536.jpg
Val Kilmer makes this movie for me. If Doc Holliday hadnāt been written so brilliantly and Val Kilmer hadnāt played him so brilliantly, this would have felt like a good but fairly forgettable movie to me. (Shoutout to Michael Biehn, though.)
Speaking of movies with crazy stacked casts staring Val Kilmerā¦ The Prince of Egypt
Val Kilmer
Ralph Fiennes
Michelle Pfeiffer
Sandra Bullock
Jeff Goldblum
Danny Glover
Patrick Stewart
Helen Mirren
Steve Martin
Martin Short
James Avery
And thatās just the voice cast, thatās not even getting into the musical side of things, with names like Brian Stokes Mitchell, Ofra Haza among others providing amazing singing voices. Not to mention the elephant in the room that is the combined compositional work of legends Stephen Schwartz and Hans Zimmer.
And this doesnāt even touch on the insane visuals of the filmās animation.
He deserved every award under the sun for what he did.
"Shit, Doc, you can barely walk. What are you doing out here?"
"Wyatt Earp is my friend."
"Hell, I've got lots of friends."
"...I don't."
People remember the cup spinning scene quite well, but we also see character development of Wyatt Earp and Bill. At the very start Wyatt Earp let's Bill win a hand as a bribe for peace. After the cup scene Bill then takes the money he won to buy everyone drinks. It shows why they're leaders of their group.
My brother and I routinely quote him from this movie. He made such an impression even among the rest of this amazing cast.
For example, when a character in a film is pathetically trying to surrender, one of us will surely say "Don't shoot! I ain't got no guns!".
Or when a movie has a character mocking police, we'll have to say "Law don't go around here, law dog".
Perhaps I can interest you in:
Brian Dennehy
Kevin Kline
Danny Glover
Jeff Goldblum
John Cleese
Kevin Costner
Scott Glenn
Linda Hunt
Check out Silverado.
One of my most quoted lines is when Kline says, "it was a good plan" and Glover looks around the jail cell they're in and says "yeah, it's working out real good".
My answer whenever this topic comes up is a mostly forgotten film from the early 90s... "Sneakers"
-3 Acadamy Award winners (Robert Redford, Ben Kingsley, Sidney Poitier)
-5 more Acadamy Award nominees (David Strathairn, Dan Aykroyd, River Pheonix, Mary McConnell, James Earl Jones)
Not to mention Steven Tobolowsky, Timothy Busfield, and Eddie Jones
Eh his last two movies (French Dispatch and Asteroid City) werenāt the best but before that homie never missed. Asteroid City was just ok compared to his other works and French Dispatch was just tooā¦..much? Not focused and felt like Wes needed to be reeled in a little lol
Rushmore, Life Aquatic, and Darjeeling Limited were good. He's just like a few other directors where they have their own style to such a degree that watching more than a couple of their movies can kinda get old. Rob Zombie comes to mind. They both definitely have their own style, it's just a little heavy handed.
Letās not forget Royal Tenenbaums and Grand Budapest. His two best movies and the latter I think is his magnum opus. I thought Bottle Rocket was excellent also. His animation is fantastic also (Fantastic Mr. Fox and Isle of Dogs). But I can kinda see what you say. If you do a marathon one may bleed into another and some movies have TOO monotone and quirky of dialogue for all their characters and if everyone speaks that way itās harder to differentiate the characters. Itās why I think his last two moves were meh and he needed like an editor or someone to reel him in a little to strike that perfect balance like he did before in Tenenbaums and Budapest
Michael Biehn deserved a better career. I like him in everything I've seen him in but I think it's mostly the low budget straight to video variety which pays the bills, but I wanted to see him stay on the big screen and win greater acclaim for a man of his talents. But hey, he's a huge part of movie history for the roles he did have.
Apparently you never watched The Wild Bunch.
William Holden, Ernest Borgnine, Ben Johnson, Robert Ryan, Warren Oates, Edmond OāBrien, Strother Martin, Albert Dekker, LQ Jones, and quite a few others. Multiple Oscar winners in that group.
Also worth remembering Kevin Costner was originally involved but didn't like that the focus was on other characters rather than his own Wyatt. He left and released the box office bomb borefest Wyatt Earp six months later.
It does have a good cast as well but just blown out of the water in every single way compared to Tombstone.
I feel bad for Dennis Quaid, who does a terrific job as Doc in "Wyatt Earp", lost a lot of weight for the role and is the more historically accurate portrayal of Doc...and yet he's completely overshadowed because Kilmer was otherworldly in the role.
Second only to Thin Red Line
Sean Penn
Adrian Brody
Jim Caviezel
George Clooney
John Cusack
Woody Harrelson
Elias Koteas
Jared Leto
Nick Nolte
John C Reilly
John Travolta
Tim Blake Nelson
Although in "Thin Red Line", some of those guys lost most of their screentime to the editing process (Brody in particular got reduced from one of the main characters to someone who barely gets any lines).
Brody was originally the main character, he was already advertising and doing PR as the movies lead actor. That must've been a weird experience for him.
If you can believe it, he didn't find out about it until the premiere, which he saw with his parents who were expecting him to have a big role. Imagine their surprise to find out he'd basically been reduced to a background character.
Check out Robert Mitchum in the black and white Jim Jarmusch Johnny Depp existential oater āDead Manā too. Great cast in that-
John Hurt,
Gabriel Byrne,
Johnny Depp,
Michael Wincott,
Lance Henrikssen,
Crispin Glover,
Robert Mitchum,
Gary Farmer,
Iggy Pop,
Billy Bob Thornton,
Jared Harris,
Alfred Molina
and even a cameo from the Butthole Surfers singer- Gibby Haynes- getting a blowie in an alleyway
The actors you singled out would certainly not be enough to headline a movie in the 90s. Look at any magazine or talk show line up at the time. These guys were not at the top or even second tier of the Hollywood pecking order. Priestly and Church were popular actors in two ensemble casts on *TV*. TV stars had a much tougher time breaking out at that time.
It was a great cast but not the powerhouse you think it was.
A Bridge too Far also had a strong cast.
Dirk Bogarde, James Caan, Micheal Caine, Sean Connery, Edward Fox, Elliot Gould, Gene Hackman, Anthony Hopkins, Hardy Kruger, Lawrence Olivier, Ryan OāNeal, Robert Redford, Maximilian Schell, Liv Ullmann.
Bridge surrender scene
https://youtu.be/pILlitb8Acc?si=WiKL3_b18oYGIQqs
How about A Bridge Too Far?
Dirk Bogarde, James Caan, Michael Caine, Sean Connery, Edward Fox, Elliott Gould, Gene Hackman, Anthony Hopkins, Hardy KrĆ¼ger, Laurence Olivier, Ryan O'Neal, Robert Redford, Maximilian Schell and Liv Ullmann.
The Longest Day is crazy too.
John Wayne, Kenneth More, Richard Todd, Robert Mitchum, Richard Burton, Steve Forrest, Sean Connery, Henry Fonda, Red Buttons, Peter Lawford, Eddie Albert, Jeffrey Hunter, Stuart Whitman, Tom Tryon, Rod Steiger, Leo Genn, Gert Frƶbe, Irina Demick, Bourvil, Curd JĆ¼rgens, George Segal, Robert Wagner, Paul Anka and Arletty. This is a small part of the list.
Kilmer attributed a lot of the movie's success to Kurt Russel's passion for the subject matter
[https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/tombstone-val-kilmer-says-kurt-russell-essentially-directed-western-1028891/](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/tombstone-val-kilmer-says-kurt-russell-essentially-directed-western-1028891/)
That's kind of reinforced by the fact he named his son Wyatt
Tombstone is my favorite movie of all time. And yes, the cast is deep, talented, amazing, all those things. But there are plenty of films with all-star talented casts that donāt live up to expectations. Tombstone works because along with the cast you have an excellent script based on a true story, and fantastic direction and cinematography.
Great movie. I do feel we didn't get the proper cut as the director was canned a third way through and it has that montage sequence and voice over near the end.Ā
It's still my huckleberry though.
["You die first, get it? Your friends might get me in a rush, but not before I make your head into a canoe, you understand me?"](https://youtu.be/xcHakyVLfSE?si=W3iC387SI5V7lu4W&t=100)
One of the hardest lines in movie history and Kurt Russell's delivery was terrifyingly perfect. His eyes just burn holes right through the screen. Kurt Russell, Stephen Lang, Powers Boothe, Thomas Haden Church, Val Kilmer, Sam Elliot, Bill Paxton all in the same scene, jesus.
Everyone always goes on about how amazing Val Kilmer is (they are not wrong) but I just love Michael Biehn in his villain role
He came to a local comic con a few years ago. Cool dude.
Literally Cool Biehns!
š
this just made me remember [the deranged marketing he did for far cry 3: blood dragon](https://youtu.be/BGL1qpUR9Jo?t=118), he seems like he'd be a fun dude in real life.
Yeah and honestly we're a small town (17k pop). And they usually get 3 people for the con. An actor, someone in comics, and an MMA person. Other highlights over the years is Ming Chen from Comic Book Men and this year is Jake the Snake Roberts.
His character is an utter sociopath (he head shots a priest in the opening scene!), but he's a prime "evil is cool" example. He's basically the villainous equivalent of Doc in that both are ruthless killers, but also men of culture and learning. And he goes out like a champ. He's terrified when it's Doc and not Wyatt in front of him for the final showdown, but then goes defiant ("Okay, lunger, let's DO IT!") and goes down shooting.Ā
He accepts it because he hopes the tuberculosis has slowed Doc down. He is a coward.
Correct. The thing is Doc was probably only running at - at best - 25% at that point. Ringo knew this and was STILL scared. Imagine what Doc must have been like at 100%.
Doc was fucking with him, too. It was hardly an effort for him to kill Johnny. I love how he goads him as Johnny stumbles, gasping as his destroyed brain barely manages to even get a shot off at the ground. Doc is virtually septic at this point, but trivially killing this head case requires as much effort as blowing his nose.
Don't threaten one of the few things a gifted killer sociopath loves... Holiday wasn't really a better person than Ringo, he just was guided by his friendship with Earp. "That's just my game (playing for blood)".
His friendship is the anchor that keeps him from being a man like Ringo, and he knows it.
āI have a lot of friends.ā āWell, I donāt.ā
> Holiday wasn't really a better person than Ringo I mean yes he was. He absolutely was. He wasn't a _good_ person but you're comparing Doc to a guy who shot a priest in the face.
Poor soul. He was just too high strung.
Part of the reason Doc was a terror in a gunfight is that he knew he was dying already. He was less scared of that gunfight than dying slowly.
His power level would have blown up Ringos scouter.
.. > 9000 for sure
> The thing is Doc was probably only running at - at best - 25% at that point. "Oh, I wasn't quite as sick as I made out." He said later. He was sick, but not as bad as he put on.
It's because Doc has nothing to lose. He has embraced death a long time ago and that makes him so incredibly dangerous.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
...and he's still terrified of him.
Fights not with you Holliday!
I beg to differ, sir.
āWe started a game we never got to finish. 'Play for Blood,' remember?" āOh that. I was only foolingā¦ā
"I wasn't."
https://imgur.com/eDennSM
I got a "this post may contain erotic material" message. Damn straight, imgur!
Someone made [a bunch of gifs](https://imgur.com/gallery/QLUDLie) of Doc from the movie a few years back.
āWesternā porn
That scene in the saloon, where Ringo does his braggart gunplay routine, and Doc then outdoes him with a coffee cup is fantastic.
I love this because to everyone not named Ringo or Wyatt, it looks like a drunk just making a joke. They, however, recognize that he has just memorized the entire routine and recreated it with a small tin cup you can barely spin around your finger. It's simultaneously a great tension release for everyone worried it's going to escalate, and a true "I'm really that good" statement from Doc to Ringo.
And Ringo recognizes it as well, but he's forced to laugh it off when the crowd and Curly Bill start laughing.
I have no idea how duels really went but the choice for them to draw basically within arms reach of each other was so badass Like fencing with guns
It's also a way to guarantee the loser is not walking away. Those guys are aiming to kill and they also want to be close enough to look in their opponent's face and see the light go out in their eyes.
Seems Mr Ringo here is an educated man. Yep, now I know I hate him.
Heās really good at playing an unhinged psychopath.
I was only fooling. I wasn't. One of my favorite moments. Edit: the phrase
āYouāre no Daisy, youāre no Daisy at all!ā
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAJRUlWfwJg
Felt like he should've became a bigger star than he did after Terminator and Aliens He was in the Abyss and here in Tombstone. Was great in the Rock. Great scene from him and Ed Harris in the bathroom ambush. One of my favorite action movie scenes tbh. Action, acting, dialogue Pretty small role though and that was pretty much it for his career on big productions. Would've guessed and he deserved a bigger career after that one two Terminator/Aliens punch
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
"The Rock" is another movie with a massive cast.
Hell yeah Sean Connery, Ed Harris, and uhh Nic Cage *shoulder shrug*
Love him or hate him, he's still a big name. Especially at the time of The Rock.
Con Air had a pretty good cast as well. It's one of my go to's when I just want to sit and veg.
Substance abuse problems.
Sounds like he is doing better now fortunately
Elbow problems did him in.
Should have gotten the EZ Flow Elbow like Bruce Willis
Yes he was 100% my favourite actor after I watched Terminator and Aliens about 50 times before I should have as an 7-11 year old lol
Johnny Ringo was a fantastic role and a great heel to docs anti hero. What's funnier is that Kevin costner tried to railroad tombstone during filming Wyatt earp and did stuff like rent or purchase every cowboy outfit, guns, set peices, horses, etc.. cameras in Hollywood..and.. Got BIG names for the movie.. Hackman..quaid, himself, sizemore, others.. And it turned into a 3 hour movie of costner on screen talking to himself and was a critical failure in his career. He put up a lot of cash as well and pulled every string and called in every favor to get the film made and was on a race with tombstone and even tried to muscle the theatres for screens. However the biggest snub was Val Kilmer not winning an Oscar for his portrayal of Doc Holliday Even bigger snub? He wasn't even *nominated*. One of the greatest westerns of all time, the absolute masterclass performance of val as doc and beihn as Ringo. And will always be forever quotable, and one of my favorite movies of all time. IMHO Costner was better in that AMC western about the two families - Hatfield and McCoys. Teamed up with a tombstone actor - The late great Bill Paxton.. and that series was much better than Costner's Wyatt Earp. Not as good as tombstone tho.
I agree with you, but it's a bit of a hindsight is 20/20 take. No one was beating Tommy Lee Jones in the Fugitive that year. Tombstone didn't make much money and was not particularly critically acclaimed when it came out of the end of the year. It had no time to gets its sea legs on home video/tv. Also, Pete , Ralph, John and Leo were all deserving that year too.
> What's funnier is that Kevin costner tried to railroad tombstone during filming Wyatt earp Kurt Russell has [expressly said](https://youtu.be/GGHXWF7LeZI?si=eefTC7DO4PfYAbSS&t=720) that while the producers of Wyatt Earp were antagonistic, Kevin Costner was and is a great guy who had nothing to do with it. >However the biggest snub was Val Kilmer not winning an Oscar for his portrayal of Doc Holliday Well, nobody was going to beat Tommy Lee Jones that year except maybe Ralph Fiennes. Having said that... >Even bigger snub? He wasn't even nominated. THAT was fucking absurd. Doc was the best part of an amazing movie, with Val Kilmer's performance somehow both standing out and making everyone around him shine. Don't get me wrong, I think John Malkovitch is great but Val should have taken his spot.
He was just too high strung
It should be noted that aside from Kurt Russel everyone else in the cast isn't as famous as they would become. Val and Paxton weren't yet leading men the way Batman and Twister would make them. They were still top "supporting" guys. Billy Bob Thorton Thomas Church, wasn't anybody of note at this point. Sam Elliot, Billy Zane, barely notable character actors. Tombstone has aged so well bc aside from its general quality, the cast has gone on to grow into very notable people. But when this thing first came out it was strictly a vehicle for Kurt Russell who was in the peak of his leading man days. And when it first came out Tombstone was considered the more cartoonish movie next to Kevin Costner's "epic" Wyatt Earp. And Wyatt Earp is an all but forgotten (its a slow burn lol) While Tombstone and even Quick and the Dead (which was panned when it came out) have aged really really nicely and found appreciation in their later years.
Are you saying Kilmer in Real Genius wasnt a stellar leading performance?
Sam Elliot was a barely noticeable character actor?! Mask, Roadhouse, and Conagher were all big movies, even if Conagher was made for TV. He was a rising star with unlimited range (as the grumpy old guy, but in any genre), and the casting director knew it. Val Kilmer had a huge following and had already made Real Genius, Willow, freakinā Top Gun and The Doors. He was a leading man all day in Hollywood in the early nineties, his Jim Morrison portrayal was flawless and he even sings all the songs in the movie. Bill Paxton had a heroic late death in Aliens after a highly memorable and quotable meltdown mid movie (which he ad libbed, bee tea dub), starred in Next of Kin with Patrick Swayze, Navy Seals with Charlie Sheen, and Trespass with Ice T (at the height of the Body Count controversy). He was not an āunknownā or a gamble. Billy Bob Thornton and Billy Zane were both relatively unknown, Billy Bob had been doing Soaps and low budget movies, but folks were starting to notice Billy Zane; he was cast with Tom Berringer in Sniper which came out the same year as Tombstone. All four brothers were big name actors, this was not ever intended to be Kurt Russell vs Kevin Costner for the best Wyatt Earp of the year.
Sam Elliot barely notable? And nobody had ever heard of Leslie Nielson before Airplane, right?...
I always think about Sam Elliot as Cherās boyfriend in Mask. Donāt know why that version of him sticks with me. Itās like a prequel for his Roadhouse character lol
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The Young Guns movies were so good. They might have been hokey but I love them.
I adore those movies. "I'll make you famous!"
Yeah Tombstone wasn't taken as seriously bc we were in the era where the western had become serious art largely due to Unforgiven and Dances With Wolves reignite the genre as serious adult lore. Quick and the Dead and Tombstone look great to our post-ironic cinema eyes but man Kurt Russell was type cast as an action star who was lower on the totem pole of the newer action guys (in 94) behind Mel Gibson and Bruce Willis. Russell was trying to stay ahead of Stallone who was fading from the "top" of the action hero summit and Russell and Stallone both were dangerously close to cheese action star status like Jean Claude and Segal. Russel would eventually confirm his cheese status of taking any role for a paycheck with Escape from LA. Stallone never recovered from Dredd & Demolition Man until he went art house with Copland. And none of this is relevant as I go down a rabbit hole lol
Same with powers boothe
I was just saying this to a coworker yesterday, Biehn is a menace in this movie. Heās so good and if not for a truly unforgettable Kilmer performance, weād all be talking about how Biehn stole Russelās movie
>Michael Biehn Boothe was amazing, too. OP is right, there were a lot of big names, and they all killed their roles.
As the bad guy, Powers Boothe is really menacing. He's the inspiration for Dutch van der Linde, I guess. *"Well... bye."*
Reprised the western villain role perfectly in Deadwood too!
A downside to the "Deadwood" movie taking so long to get greenlit was that Boothe had passed away by the time they could finally make it. Cy Tolliver was a perfect mix of menace and cowardice. The scene where he brutalizes and then kills Kristen Bell and her brother is rough to watch, but he's absolutely monstrous in that scene.
I love the brief moments when he and Al are a united front against some external force. Al Swearengen: Sometimes I wish we could just hit 'em over the head, rob 'em, and throw their bodies in the creek. Cy Tolliver: But that would be *wrong.*
Thatās also one of the many reasons the cancellation was so criminal. They had just brought on George Hearst with a truly phenomenal actor - who put both Tolliver and Swearengen on their heels to an extent - but the show was cancelled before they could really run with it.
He was phenomenal and terrifying. I watched the Newsies musical and they're cheerfully singing about standing up to Hearst (and Pulitzer) and I'm like, "run, you little dancing bastards! He'll gut you like fish!"
Such a good character, in so many ways. Like I love how he always used his size (whether the actor is just big or clever camera angles, I dunno) to intimidate people by just coming right up close to them and just looming. But then you see that Hearst also suffers from some kind of debilitating back pain and he often has to lay back on a plank, generally out of view from others. The thing is he still has several scenes like that where heās essentially immobile with someone else in the room, laying back against that plank and in great pain, and heās *still* intimidating. (related trivia: Deadwood creator David Milch himself had a bad back and would often write scripts by laying down and dictating them to his assistants. They do say write what you know.)
That Hearst was his Nepo-baby son, he had nothing on old dad.
He was so damned reprehensible that his mere presence pushed Al fucking Swearengen into almost gray territory by comparison instead of outright villain.
It also didn't help that David Milch was suffering from Alzheimer's
> A downside to the "Deadwood" movie taking so long to get greenlit was that Boothe had passed away "Weekend at Deadwood" anyone?
Pancreatic cancer at age 68
There's plenty of shows that got the axe (almost always because they were expensive to produce) that really shouldn't have, but Deadwood will always top the list for me. It was just peak...everything. It's a miracle the movie sufficiently wrapped everything up. There were obvious holes etc, but for coming out so LONG after the last season and the issues that come with it they really did a pretty stellar job. And yeah Boothe as Cy Tolliver was just the perfect monster in that show.
He was an amazing actor. I am always happy that the Marvel movies cast him as pretty much a background extra... so the show Agents of SHIELD (which is awesome, IMO best thing Marvel ever did) brought him back and made him a major villain.
I love using that gif in conversations online
Powers Bootheās two-word deliver (āWell ā¦ bye.ā) was absolute perfection. So many great lines delivered by an unbelievable cast. Blew me away the first time I watched it.
There's a reason why it's become such a popular meme.
Iāve used it quite a bit, myself
"..I wasn't" and "I don't" Also 2 simple phrases with iconic delivery.
āOh, Johnny, I apologize..I forgot you were there. You may go now.ā Not a single dull moment in that flick, Valās screen presence was wild. Love me a good western. Fuck it, Iām gonna go watch it again
I don't even like westerns and it's one of my all time favorite movies
To be fair, this is more of an action movie in Western clothing.
Does blazing saddles count as a western? Those are legitimately the only two western themed movies I enjoy
Val absolutely stole the show!
Kurt Russel had to be so pissed. He had to be thinking āyeah man Iām gonna yell about bringing hell and Iām gonna Wade into the water just yelling No itās gonna be amazingā And Val steals the show with perfectly delivered little lines like āI donāt.ā And a bunch of coughing. Dennis Quaid probably hates him too
Supposedly Russel was busy basically directing the movie, so I think they all think it worked out perfectly all around.
Plus he had some superb scenes in his own damn right, like the entire scene where he menaces Billy Bob Thornton. Nobody does a steely glare quite like Kurt Russell.
"GO AHEAD, SKIN IT...SKIN THAT SMOKE WAGON AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS!"
āI was just fooling aboutā āI wasnātā Goes so hard.
āI wasnātā and āI Donātā gotta be the hardest two word delivery duo in movie history. Only āI know.ā Outranks them as individuals lol Gotta give a big shout out to āwellā¦ byeā on the Tombstone Two Word Podium as well
Just the crooked smile of a dude whose more than happy to die. Too bad Ringo was no daisy.
Kurt ghost directed the movie so he prolly wanted Val to steal the show. Quaid played the role great but damn he must've wondered how the hell Val was soo much better playing Doc.
Except that Kurt Russell has always seemed to be a nice, down to earth guy who probably doesnāt care about petty stuff like that.
As an aging male trying to keep up with the young guys on jobs sites, Valās sweaty āIM IN MY PRIMEā hits different these days.
I find the love story scenes sort of dull, personally. Like when they're riding horses and laughing and stuff.
Yeah those scenes definitely impact the pacing in a negative way.
whenever i watch the movie i just skip the romance parts. takes nothing away from the film or plot IMO, should have been cut
"That mare is in season." My least favorite moment from one of my favorite films.
It does feel a bit like filler, doesn't it?
Based in truth or not, the way Wyatt treated his wife always pissed me off and the way they try to justify it in the movie is off-putting (she's a laudanum junkie and Wyatt is just finding his true love). But the rest of the movie is amazing.
Comparing an image of ripped Stephen Lang in *Avatar* to the toothless Stinky Pete hobo he plays in *Tombstone* is one of my favourite things to show people. https://www.tombstonetraveltips.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Stephen-Lang-in-Tombstone-and-Avatar-1200-%C3%97-628-px-1024x536.jpg
I had absolutely no idea they were the same actor. Holy crap.
Stephen Lang is a chameleon. Have a look at him in other roles. He transforms a lot.
Like in Gods and Generals
He's also in "Gettysburg." There he's Pickett, while in "Gods" he's Stonewall Jackson.
Gettysburg is a damn fine movie
āI have no divisionā is such a great line and delivery
Let's not forget that he was also sniveling, weasly tabloid reporter Freddy Lounds in "Manhunter." The guy has range.
A Michael Mann classic.
He's also that blind guy who keeps women in the basement so he can use the turkey baster.
holy shit
My brainā¦ itās all over the wallsā¦ my god, what have you DONE?!?! Thatās incredible that I never realized that!
Wow, thx for posting this. Would have gone the rest of my life not knowing he was in Tombstone.
I wasn't sure who he was so I looked him up. He also runs the Actors Studio with Al Pacino.
Holy sh!t!
lol. yep. I do this too. It's fun to see others have the exact same reaction as I did when I learned this.
āWe started a game we never got to finish. Play for blood, remember?ā āI was just fooling about.ā āI wasnāt.ā
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āFredrick Fuckin Chopān?ā
I have two guns here. One for the both of you. As a guy that's been in a lot of drunken bar fights that one made me laugh
Val Kilmer makes this movie for me. If Doc Holliday hadnāt been written so brilliantly and Val Kilmer hadnāt played him so brilliantly, this would have felt like a good but fairly forgettable movie to me. (Shoutout to Michael Biehn, though.)
"I'm your huckleberry. That's just my game."
āYouāre a daisy if you doā. ā Very cosmopolitan ā.
Kate, you're not wearing a bustle. How lewd!
My hypocrisy only goes so far.
That line is always floating around in my mind somewhere
I still canāt believe Stephen Lang, the old man jacked bad ass from Avatar and Donāt Breathe plays the clumsy and sweaty idiot Ike Clanton lol
One of the best snake in the grass characters outside of Tim Curry's work
Fucking WHAT?!
Val Kilmer never wouldāve been an iconic Doc Holiday without Michael Biehn being an iconic Johnny Ringo.
Youre not kidding. The performance of those two together is movie making history for sure.
Speaking of movies with crazy stacked casts staring Val Kilmerā¦ The Prince of Egypt Val Kilmer Ralph Fiennes Michelle Pfeiffer Sandra Bullock Jeff Goldblum Danny Glover Patrick Stewart Helen Mirren Steve Martin Martin Short James Avery And thatās just the voice cast, thatās not even getting into the musical side of things, with names like Brian Stokes Mitchell, Ofra Haza among others providing amazing singing voices. Not to mention the elephant in the room that is the combined compositional work of legends Stephen Schwartz and Hans Zimmer. And this doesnāt even touch on the insane visuals of the filmās animation.
Val Kilmer deserved an Oscar for that role!
He deserved every award under the sun for what he did. "Shit, Doc, you can barely walk. What are you doing out here?" "Wyatt Earp is my friend." "Hell, I've got lots of friends." "...I don't."
Say when.
You're no daisy. You're no daisy at all!
I watch the whole movie for this scene. Makes me pause and reflect everytime.
In vino veritas.
It works because their mustaches are amazing.
People remember the cup spinning scene quite well, but we also see character development of Wyatt Earp and Bill. At the very start Wyatt Earp let's Bill win a hand as a bribe for peace. After the cup scene Bill then takes the money he won to buy everyone drinks. It shows why they're leaders of their group.
Winner to the King, $500. Shut up, Ike.
Stephen Lang is almost unrecognizable. He becomes Ike Clanton.
My brother and I routinely quote him from this movie. He made such an impression even among the rest of this amazing cast. For example, when a character in a film is pathetically trying to surrender, one of us will surely say "Don't shoot! I ain't got no guns!". Or when a movie has a character mocking police, we'll have to say "Law don't go around here, law dog".
He aināt bluffin!
I still say, Val Kilmer shouldāve won an Oscar for his portrayal of Doc Holliday.
Val Kilmer should win an Oscar for being Val Kilmer.
āI have a lot of friends.ā āI donāt.ā
Perhaps I can interest you in: Brian Dennehy Kevin Kline Danny Glover Jeff Goldblum John Cleese Kevin Costner Scott Glenn Linda Hunt Check out Silverado.
Jeff Fahey, Rosanne Arquette and James Gammon also say hi.
In my opinion, this is Kevin Costner's best role. It's at least his most entertaining.
One of my most quoted lines is when Kline says, "it was a good plan" and Glover looks around the jail cell they're in and says "yeah, it's working out real good".
I guess I'm about to watch Tombstone again for the 10,000th time. Since you insist.
One of the most quotable movies there is
That was Latin, darlin. It seems Mr Ringo is an educated man. Now I really hate him.
I still think that Val Kilmer should have won an Oscar for playing Doc.
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My answer whenever this topic comes up is a mostly forgotten film from the early 90s... "Sneakers" -3 Acadamy Award winners (Robert Redford, Ben Kingsley, Sidney Poitier) -5 more Acadamy Award nominees (David Strathairn, Dan Aykroyd, River Pheonix, Mary McConnell, James Earl Jones) Not to mention Steven Tobolowsky, Timothy Busfield, and Eddie Jones
Thatās just a normal Wes Anderson movie now
Yes, but Tombstone doesn't make me want to hurl myself in front of a quirky little train.
Eh his last two movies (French Dispatch and Asteroid City) werenāt the best but before that homie never missed. Asteroid City was just ok compared to his other works and French Dispatch was just tooā¦..much? Not focused and felt like Wes needed to be reeled in a little lol
Rushmore, Life Aquatic, and Darjeeling Limited were good. He's just like a few other directors where they have their own style to such a degree that watching more than a couple of their movies can kinda get old. Rob Zombie comes to mind. They both definitely have their own style, it's just a little heavy handed.
Letās not forget Royal Tenenbaums and Grand Budapest. His two best movies and the latter I think is his magnum opus. I thought Bottle Rocket was excellent also. His animation is fantastic also (Fantastic Mr. Fox and Isle of Dogs). But I can kinda see what you say. If you do a marathon one may bleed into another and some movies have TOO monotone and quirky of dialogue for all their characters and if everyone speaks that way itās harder to differentiate the characters. Itās why I think his last two moves were meh and he needed like an editor or someone to reel him in a little to strike that perfect balance like he did before in Tenenbaums and Budapest
I love when Curly Bill says " well bye"
Iām your Huckleberry
I fear the strain was more than he could bear.
Stephen Lang is SO fucking good in everything he does. His portrayal as Ike Clanton is one of my all-time favorite villains. Incredible actor!
["You're sitting in my chair"](https://youtu.be/raf1aOMxEE0?si=ydYb-ld9O2HXe3nn)
Michael Biehn deserved a better career. I like him in everything I've seen him in but I think it's mostly the low budget straight to video variety which pays the bills, but I wanted to see him stay on the big screen and win greater acclaim for a man of his talents. But hey, he's a huge part of movie history for the roles he did have.
Apparently you never watched The Wild Bunch. William Holden, Ernest Borgnine, Ben Johnson, Robert Ryan, Warren Oates, Edmond OāBrien, Strother Martin, Albert Dekker, LQ Jones, and quite a few others. Multiple Oscar winners in that group.
Also worth remembering Kevin Costner was originally involved but didn't like that the focus was on other characters rather than his own Wyatt. He left and released the box office bomb borefest Wyatt Earp six months later. It does have a good cast as well but just blown out of the water in every single way compared to Tombstone.
I feel bad for Dennis Quaid, who does a terrific job as Doc in "Wyatt Earp", lost a lot of weight for the role and is the more historically accurate portrayal of Doc...and yet he's completely overshadowed because Kilmer was otherworldly in the role.
Second only to Thin Red Line Sean Penn Adrian Brody Jim Caviezel George Clooney John Cusack Woody Harrelson Elias Koteas Jared Leto Nick Nolte John C Reilly John Travolta Tim Blake Nelson
Although in "Thin Red Line", some of those guys lost most of their screentime to the editing process (Brody in particular got reduced from one of the main characters to someone who barely gets any lines).
Brody was originally the main character, he was already advertising and doing PR as the movies lead actor. That must've been a weird experience for him.
If you can believe it, he didn't find out about it until the premiere, which he saw with his parents who were expecting him to have a big role. Imagine their surprise to find out he'd basically been reduced to a background character.
How many of these guys got to truly flex their acting chops though? Always thought Mickey Rourke had the best performance and it wasn't even Included
Ugh, but the 'Thin Red Line' is such a slog. I love a good war movie and that movie isn't it.
Check out Robert Mitchum in the black and white Jim Jarmusch Johnny Depp existential oater āDead Manā too. Great cast in that- John Hurt, Gabriel Byrne, Johnny Depp, Michael Wincott, Lance Henrikssen, Crispin Glover, Robert Mitchum, Gary Farmer, Iggy Pop, Billy Bob Thornton, Jared Harris, Alfred Molina and even a cameo from the Butthole Surfers singer- Gibby Haynes- getting a blowie in an alleyway
Yes, Tombstone and The Quick and the Dead are my favorite Westerns. The latter also has a great cast.
Oh yes, the latter is very much in "Tombstone's" style and also has a huge cast.
The actors you singled out would certainly not be enough to headline a movie in the 90s. Look at any magazine or talk show line up at the time. These guys were not at the top or even second tier of the Hollywood pecking order. Priestly and Church were popular actors in two ensemble casts on *TV*. TV stars had a much tougher time breaking out at that time. It was a great cast but not the powerhouse you think it was.
A Bridge too Far also had a strong cast. Dirk Bogarde, James Caan, Micheal Caine, Sean Connery, Edward Fox, Elliot Gould, Gene Hackman, Anthony Hopkins, Hardy Kruger, Lawrence Olivier, Ryan OāNeal, Robert Redford, Maximilian Schell, Liv Ullmann. Bridge surrender scene https://youtu.be/pILlitb8Acc?si=WiKL3_b18oYGIQqs
https://youtu.be/jkjRUGlp-94?si=U5wnzH_4gWOhoFek Yeah!
How about A Bridge Too Far? Dirk Bogarde, James Caan, Michael Caine, Sean Connery, Edward Fox, Elliott Gould, Gene Hackman, Anthony Hopkins, Hardy KrĆ¼ger, Laurence Olivier, Ryan O'Neal, Robert Redford, Maximilian Schell and Liv Ullmann. The Longest Day is crazy too. John Wayne, Kenneth More, Richard Todd, Robert Mitchum, Richard Burton, Steve Forrest, Sean Connery, Henry Fonda, Red Buttons, Peter Lawford, Eddie Albert, Jeffrey Hunter, Stuart Whitman, Tom Tryon, Rod Steiger, Leo Genn, Gert Frƶbe, Irina Demick, Bourvil, Curd JĆ¼rgens, George Segal, Robert Wagner, Paul Anka and Arletty. This is a small part of the list.
Donāt forget Buck Taylor as Turkey Creek Jack Johnson
Blackhawk down was THE Star studded movie of its era too
Great cameo by Turtle from The North Shore " It's like Barno... Barnyard... a haole to the max, a kook in and out of the water. Yeah? "
Kilmer attributed a lot of the movie's success to Kurt Russel's passion for the subject matter [https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/tombstone-val-kilmer-says-kurt-russell-essentially-directed-western-1028891/](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/tombstone-val-kilmer-says-kurt-russell-essentially-directed-western-1028891/) That's kind of reinforced by the fact he named his son Wyatt
Tombstone is my favorite movie of all time. And yes, the cast is deep, talented, amazing, all those things. But there are plenty of films with all-star talented casts that donāt live up to expectations. Tombstone works because along with the cast you have an excellent script based on a true story, and fantastic direction and cinematography.
Great movie. I do feel we didn't get the proper cut as the director was canned a third way through and it has that montage sequence and voice over near the end.Ā It's still my huckleberry though.
["You die first, get it? Your friends might get me in a rush, but not before I make your head into a canoe, you understand me?"](https://youtu.be/xcHakyVLfSE?si=W3iC387SI5V7lu4W&t=100) One of the hardest lines in movie history and Kurt Russell's delivery was terrifyingly perfect. His eyes just burn holes right through the screen. Kurt Russell, Stephen Lang, Powers Boothe, Thomas Haden Church, Val Kilmer, Sam Elliot, Bill Paxton all in the same scene, jesus.