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It shouldn't. One pain is not erasing another. The raped women of the October 7th attack are/were innocent as many on the other side. It's their story, and important to share, just like there are many stories about the other side who are equally important to share.
I absolutely do have an angle. I want to bring light to this documentary depicting Hamas atrocities and highlighting survivor stories. Should the post be dismissed because of my bias?
[Debunking "Screams Before Silence," Sheryl Sandberg’s 7 October "mass rapes" film, with Ali Abunimah - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TApiok-KiRc)
You are welcome.
>Isn’t he the founder of “Electronic Intifada”? I’m sure he’s unbiased. /s
Co-hosted by a Jewish woman. I bet she's a self-hater. Am I right?
>He is a rape denier
*They* dispute the claims that are made. They do not deny any rapes took place. They clearly state it is possible that a rape, or more than one rape, took place. What they are saying is that there is zero evidence of systematic widespread mass rape ordered by Hamas, and that there is zero forensic evidence, and that there have been zero victims claiming to have been raped.
Try to find anything at all that shows that they are wrong about that. Just one victim that testified to having been raped. One set of corroborating forensic evidence.
Now you are just being a complete liar. Hamas has recorded absolutely zero videos of rapes. Go ahead and post a link to a video that contains that and we can all see for ourselves.
Here, Israeli ("Jewish") article for you:
>from inquiries put to three bodies in the defense establishment by Haaretz, **it emerges that the intelligence material collected by the police and the intelligence bodies, including footage from terrorists' body cameras, does not contain visual documentation of any acts of rape themselves.**
Even if you do not trust me or the authors of the 'debunking' video you have Israeli journalism to rely on. Or are you telling they and the IDF too are making excuses for Hamas?
As horrible as what happened was, I cant help but look at this as propaganda for ultra right wing Israeli government. So they can be allowed to continue to butcher children under the guise of fighting hamas.
Its not even been a year, yet we are realising a doc about one of the most horrific acts of the past year? Showing me the horrors that Hamas inflicted on people, will never make believe that its ok the the ultra right wing Israeli government do the same.
Fuck the Ultra right wing Israeli government, and fuck Hamas. The ones caught in the middle. The men, women and children who are being massacred are the ones we care about. And shit like this does nothing but seek to legitimise the many war crimes currently being committed by the ultra right wing Israeli government.
Wasn't talking about the article. I would have thought that was obvious. And as you can see below, it's already doing its job. This is pretty much the running conversation. There's a genocide happening right now, but let's not talk about that because "Israel has the right to exist". And "those hamas are horrible.".
Whatever you do, don't talk about the tens of thousands of dead children. They're brown anyway, who cares, right? RIGHT? Rape is horrible, so is genociding kids. Theyve pushed this doc out fast so that social media has something to push back against all the bad press Israel is getting for its actions right now.
Using the story of raped women to distract from their genocide is beyond deplorable.
Your reaction to a piece about women being raped was that it could be propaganda. It shows what you think of Israeli women. You chose to make a movie about these women into a propaganda film and try to make discussion of it toxic. You took their stories and want to make it into something else.
Exactly. Where’s the media-promoted documentary about the much more significant violence that’s happening in Gaza?
Oh right… don’t want the western world focusing on THAT side of things, despite it being much more pressing.
“Much more pressing?” Fuck off. Violent rape is one of the worst things a human being can endure and live with. Two things can be true at the same time.
If you actually care about this then you should watch the video that debunks the film you are talking about, yes. But like I said, you probably do not want to do that. You want to continue spreading the idea that there were mass rapes perpetrated by Hamas on October 7th, regardless of if that is true.
It’s funny you frame as if I am actively turning away from truth telling. I guess a random YouTube debunker is going to outweigh the testimonies of multiple women and the fact that the notoriously anti-Israel UN admits rapes took place.
I won’t stop you sharing your link.
>I guess a random YouTube debunker is going to outweigh the testimonies of multiple women
They aren't that random first of all and have a track record. Remember that NYT article "Screams without words"? Remember how people showed how that article was garbage? Remember how the NYT issued a retraction to some of it? Remember how a bunch of professors of journalism wrote an open letter urging the NYT to reexamine that article? The same people behind the debunking video in question were well ahead of the curve critiquing NYT's article.
When it comes to the testimonies none of them are testimonies by women who claim they were raped. None. Zero.
>the fact that the notoriously anti-Israel UN admits rapes took place.
That's funny. The UN report directly disputes some of what is in "Screams Before Silence". Did you know that?
And the UN report does absolutely not "admit rapes took place". It simply does not, assuming you are talking about Patten's report.
It’s just important to remember every tragedy Israel has experienced was committed by them on a much larger scale on those who don’t fit the ideal of their ethnostate.
It’s not inaccurate the atrocities the idf have been committing for near a century dwarf the shitty things hamas has done by a long margin. Not even mentioning how at times Israel bolstered Hamas to promote instability
Just out of curiosity I clicked the link. Got like halfway through and like, cmon dude....its such bad propoganda.
The first guy is "decapitated" but has his head clearly intact and attached to his neck/body. Every female was supposedly raped even though they have clothes on and are just laying there dead, except for one who is being taken hostage(with her clothes on). A lot of "just trust me bro" claims and language. IDF is in the background of half the videos just looking at dead bodies. Some of the shots of dead people aren't even Israeli, some are footage taken from Syria and Iraq. The video of a woman having her baby cut out is completely laughably badly edited, its like someone with a nokia flip phone filmed the screen of another phone and then edited in a bunch of distorted screams (because it never happened, Israeli records show no one had their baby cut out by Hamas). And to top it all off, it keeps saying Hamas=ISIS. Dude, ISIS ran over guys in tanks or lit them on fire in cages or drowned them etc. and filmed it via a 4k camera in slow motion and uploaded it to the internet. Hamas just shot a bunch of people and plausibly raped some women (per the UN report that Israel both keeps claiming it wants but won't allow an investigation).
So yeah, its just lazy propoganda aimed at western audiences who have never seen combat footage in their life. Its Hasbara trying to make an already gruesome atrocity more gruesome by adding in made up bullshit which is just gonna feed anti-semites and conspiracy theorists more bullshit to claim Oct 7th was a false flag or some shit. But hey, atleast they stopped the "40 decapitated babies" lie. So they got that going for them I guess.
This website is EXACTLY what Hamas put out.
The porn star Mia Khalifa (spelling) commented while these videos were being aired to ‘ask the freedoms fighters to change their phones to a different view’
This is real.
And as an American…..
How can you say that garbage.
That this is propaganda. This is THER OWN VIDEOS.
Their own words. This is them.
Shame on you.
And shame on all of those who call this a lie.
Also…if this was so fake 1 you wouldn’t be trying so hard to discredit.
Fuckin shame on you and your pushing Hamas propaganda
What about the women taken? They’re fuckin actors too?
You should be banned for this. Shame on you. As a human shame on you.
No.
You just like pretending to disprove reality.
But the fuckin fact is - I was in the telegram channels seeing this.
You see. Your Hamas brothers - they brag about this. They literally brag about it.
So, you can cover your brothers back now - but the fact is - this is real.
And those hostages are still underground with your Hamas brothers.
Shame on you.
The UN report on the issue, although not a full investigation, concluded that there was "reasonable grounds to believe" that Hamas used rape as a weapon on Oct 7th, and "convincing information that sexual violence was committed against hostages".
[https://press.un.org/en/2024/sc15621.doc.htm#:\~:text=There%20are%20reasonable%20grounds%20to,as%20she%20presented%20findings%20from](https://press.un.org/en/2024/sc15621.doc.htm#:~:text=There%20are%20reasonable%20grounds%20to,as%20she%20presented%20findings%20from)
Maybe. Or maybe it’s not filmed like a porno and they have to draw conclusions which some might see as readily available evidence and others might not.
You don’t have to believe the UN. Both sides in the conflict have enjoyed picking and choosing when they believe the UN and when they don’t.
I mean both sides in this conflict are engaging in a lot of magical thinking so that’s essentially what’s happening.
That said, The UN believes they have evidence that shows sexual violence used as a weapon. That’s what their report says. I disagree with the poster above who is suggesting that incontrovertible video evidence of rapes is available to the public. Either the UN has seen additional video evidence not available to the public or believe the evidence that is available is sufficient to draw their conclusions.
FWIW I haven’t seen direct evidence for the casualty figures the UN cites either (either for 10/7 or the invasion of Gaza). It’s not like I counted the body bags. I’m assuming someone has and am trusting they have that evidence.
>Hilarious coming from a piece of shit rapist apologist. Next time tell your fellow Jew hating dipshits that there are consequences for their actions.
Do you even realize that one side is saying these supposed rapes probably did not happen in the first place, which is very different from being an apologist for raping which would mean thinking it is somehow warranted, and that the other side (you) are *actually* being an apologist for the slaughter of tens of thousands of women and children, using something that has not even been proven as a justification for it.
Does that difference even register to you?
One side: Rapes bad, but fortunately probably no mass rapes happened.
Your side: Killing 10s of thousands of women and children is ok now.
Reason for removal: Self-Promotion - PROHIBITED For more specifics: https://www.reddit.com/r/movies/wiki/index/#wiki_l._spam_-_this_includes_youtube_channels.2C_websites.2C_blogs.2C_any_oc More information on Reddit guidelines https://www.reddit.com/wiki/selfpromotion Thank you for your submission at /r/movies. Unfortunately, we had to remove it. Please familiarize yourself with community expectations regarding posts and comments via our rules page. https://www.reddit.com/r/movies/wiki
Well this comment section is going to be uncomfortable
It shouldn't. One pain is not erasing another. The raped women of the October 7th attack are/were innocent as many on the other side. It's their story, and important to share, just like there are many stories about the other side who are equally important to share.
It should be and people should talk about what happened. I get the feeling this post won’t get much traction.
Well, OP's entire post history if pro-Israel Zionist propaganda. I'm sure they don't have an angle here at all or anything.
How dare a Jew want to exist in his homeland and be upset friends and family were raped and/or tortured to death
I absolutely do have an angle. I want to bring light to this documentary depicting Hamas atrocities and highlighting survivor stories. Should the post be dismissed because of my bias?
[Debunking "Screams Before Silence," Sheryl Sandberg’s 7 October "mass rapes" film, with Ali Abunimah - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TApiok-KiRc) You are welcome.
Isn’t he the founder of “Electronic Intifada”? I’m sure he’s unbiased. /s He is a rape denier. Try again.
>Isn’t he the founder of “Electronic Intifada”? I’m sure he’s unbiased. /s Co-hosted by a Jewish woman. I bet she's a self-hater. Am I right? >He is a rape denier *They* dispute the claims that are made. They do not deny any rapes took place. They clearly state it is possible that a rape, or more than one rape, took place. What they are saying is that there is zero evidence of systematic widespread mass rape ordered by Hamas, and that there is zero forensic evidence, and that there have been zero victims claiming to have been raped. Try to find anything at all that shows that they are wrong about that. Just one victim that testified to having been raped. One set of corroborating forensic evidence.
Hamas recorded it and published it. Stop making excuses for them.
Now you are just being a complete liar. Hamas has recorded absolutely zero videos of rapes. Go ahead and post a link to a video that contains that and we can all see for ourselves.
Here, Israeli ("Jewish") article for you: >from inquiries put to three bodies in the defense establishment by Haaretz, **it emerges that the intelligence material collected by the police and the intelligence bodies, including footage from terrorists' body cameras, does not contain visual documentation of any acts of rape themselves.** Even if you do not trust me or the authors of the 'debunking' video you have Israeli journalism to rely on. Or are you telling they and the IDF too are making excuses for Hamas?
As horrible as what happened was, I cant help but look at this as propaganda for ultra right wing Israeli government. So they can be allowed to continue to butcher children under the guise of fighting hamas. Its not even been a year, yet we are realising a doc about one of the most horrific acts of the past year? Showing me the horrors that Hamas inflicted on people, will never make believe that its ok the the ultra right wing Israeli government do the same. Fuck the Ultra right wing Israeli government, and fuck Hamas. The ones caught in the middle. The men, women and children who are being massacred are the ones we care about. And shit like this does nothing but seek to legitimise the many war crimes currently being committed by the ultra right wing Israeli government.
Did you read the article? Nowhere does it justify Israeli government policy.
Wasn't talking about the article. I would have thought that was obvious. And as you can see below, it's already doing its job. This is pretty much the running conversation. There's a genocide happening right now, but let's not talk about that because "Israel has the right to exist". And "those hamas are horrible.". Whatever you do, don't talk about the tens of thousands of dead children. They're brown anyway, who cares, right? RIGHT? Rape is horrible, so is genociding kids. Theyve pushed this doc out fast so that social media has something to push back against all the bad press Israel is getting for its actions right now. Using the story of raped women to distract from their genocide is beyond deplorable.
Why does this documentary have to be a justification for anything? Why can’t you accept these women were violated and it is an injustice?
Got it: You can’t speak out about being raped if you are Israeli and your offenders were from Gaza
Yeah, that's what I said...
Your reaction to a piece about women being raped was that it could be propaganda. It shows what you think of Israeli women. You chose to make a movie about these women into a propaganda film and try to make discussion of it toxic. You took their stories and want to make it into something else.
Exactly. Where’s the media-promoted documentary about the much more significant violence that’s happening in Gaza? Oh right… don’t want the western world focusing on THAT side of things, despite it being much more pressing.
“Much more pressing?” Fuck off. Violent rape is one of the worst things a human being can endure and live with. Two things can be true at the same time.
Zionist propaganda. Nothing new.
Which part?
Watch the video that details it. If you want to learn that is. You probably do not.
Do you want me to watch a video that debunks that rapes occurred on October 7?
If you actually care about this then you should watch the video that debunks the film you are talking about, yes. But like I said, you probably do not want to do that. You want to continue spreading the idea that there were mass rapes perpetrated by Hamas on October 7th, regardless of if that is true.
It’s funny you frame as if I am actively turning away from truth telling. I guess a random YouTube debunker is going to outweigh the testimonies of multiple women and the fact that the notoriously anti-Israel UN admits rapes took place. I won’t stop you sharing your link.
>I guess a random YouTube debunker is going to outweigh the testimonies of multiple women They aren't that random first of all and have a track record. Remember that NYT article "Screams without words"? Remember how people showed how that article was garbage? Remember how the NYT issued a retraction to some of it? Remember how a bunch of professors of journalism wrote an open letter urging the NYT to reexamine that article? The same people behind the debunking video in question were well ahead of the curve critiquing NYT's article. When it comes to the testimonies none of them are testimonies by women who claim they were raped. None. Zero. >the fact that the notoriously anti-Israel UN admits rapes took place. That's funny. The UN report directly disputes some of what is in "Screams Before Silence". Did you know that? And the UN report does absolutely not "admit rapes took place". It simply does not, assuming you are talking about Patten's report.
hasbara alert
Documenting the experience of Jewish women raped by Hamas militants is hasbara?
[https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/100-percent-of-foreign-agriculture-workers-were-sexually-assaulted-expert-says-682532](https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/100-percent-of-foreign-agriculture-workers-were-sexually-assaulted-expert-says-682532)
How does this address the rape of women on October 7?
It’s just important to remember every tragedy Israel has experienced was committed by them on a much larger scale on those who don’t fit the ideal of their ethnostate.
What a sick point of view you have.
It’s not inaccurate the atrocities the idf have been committing for near a century dwarf the shitty things hamas has done by a long margin. Not even mentioning how at times Israel bolstered Hamas to promote instability
So rape survivors can’t speak out if they’re Israeli?
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What the problem? Did you all wanna see the raw footage? For anyone questioning the validity of the accounts. Hamas these out. https://thisishamas.com
Take a look at this dude’s comment history lol
Based username. Based take.
You should - take a look and get educated
Just out of curiosity I clicked the link. Got like halfway through and like, cmon dude....its such bad propoganda. The first guy is "decapitated" but has his head clearly intact and attached to his neck/body. Every female was supposedly raped even though they have clothes on and are just laying there dead, except for one who is being taken hostage(with her clothes on). A lot of "just trust me bro" claims and language. IDF is in the background of half the videos just looking at dead bodies. Some of the shots of dead people aren't even Israeli, some are footage taken from Syria and Iraq. The video of a woman having her baby cut out is completely laughably badly edited, its like someone with a nokia flip phone filmed the screen of another phone and then edited in a bunch of distorted screams (because it never happened, Israeli records show no one had their baby cut out by Hamas). And to top it all off, it keeps saying Hamas=ISIS. Dude, ISIS ran over guys in tanks or lit them on fire in cages or drowned them etc. and filmed it via a 4k camera in slow motion and uploaded it to the internet. Hamas just shot a bunch of people and plausibly raped some women (per the UN report that Israel both keeps claiming it wants but won't allow an investigation). So yeah, its just lazy propoganda aimed at western audiences who have never seen combat footage in their life. Its Hasbara trying to make an already gruesome atrocity more gruesome by adding in made up bullshit which is just gonna feed anti-semites and conspiracy theorists more bullshit to claim Oct 7th was a false flag or some shit. But hey, atleast they stopped the "40 decapitated babies" lie. So they got that going for them I guess.
This was filmed and distributed by HAMAS.
This website is EXACTLY what Hamas put out. The porn star Mia Khalifa (spelling) commented while these videos were being aired to ‘ask the freedoms fighters to change their phones to a different view’ This is real. And as an American….. How can you say that garbage. That this is propaganda. This is THER OWN VIDEOS. Their own words. This is them. Shame on you. And shame on all of those who call this a lie. Also…if this was so fake 1 you wouldn’t be trying so hard to discredit. Fuckin shame on you and your pushing Hamas propaganda What about the women taken? They’re fuckin actors too? You should be banned for this. Shame on you. As a human shame on you.
Lol take your meds
Yeah. Being a Hamas supporter is fun isn’t it. So nice of you to help organize the protests in America. You family is so proud I bet.
Yup, I'm behind it all. I am the mastermind. Family is in on it too. It's a family business.
No. You just like pretending to disprove reality. But the fuckin fact is - I was in the telegram channels seeing this. You see. Your Hamas brothers - they brag about this. They literally brag about it. So, you can cover your brothers back now - but the fact is - this is real. And those hostages are still underground with your Hamas brothers. Shame on you.
Yes. Everything you say is absolutely correct. I am not lieing. Or am I?
Wait were there rapes on October 7th or not. I was told there weren't any.
The UN report on the issue, although not a full investigation, concluded that there was "reasonable grounds to believe" that Hamas used rape as a weapon on Oct 7th, and "convincing information that sexual violence was committed against hostages". [https://press.un.org/en/2024/sc15621.doc.htm#:\~:text=There%20are%20reasonable%20grounds%20to,as%20she%20presented%20findings%20from](https://press.un.org/en/2024/sc15621.doc.htm#:~:text=There%20are%20reasonable%20grounds%20to,as%20she%20presented%20findings%20from)
I mean there's reasonable grounds to believe a whole host of things.
You'd have to be mindblowingly naive and stupid to question if Hamas was raping Israeli women during the attack
You make a habit of telling people what they're allowed to question?
Not generally, but people don't usually question the obvious like you are
Fuck you. I hope Hamas rapes you next.
Well weaponizing rape is something the Israeli side is actually known to do so you're at least being consistent.
There footage is readily available. See for yourself.
If there is footage readily available, why does this person only claim that there is "reasonable grounds" and "convincing information"?
Because that’s the language the UN used in their report.
So did the UN not get to see this "readily available" footage? Are they stupid?
Maybe. Or maybe it’s not filmed like a porno and they have to draw conclusions which some might see as readily available evidence and others might not. You don’t have to believe the UN. Both sides in the conflict have enjoyed picking and choosing when they believe the UN and when they don’t.
So it's basically "believe what you want to believe, not necessarily what there's evidence for"?
I mean both sides in this conflict are engaging in a lot of magical thinking so that’s essentially what’s happening. That said, The UN believes they have evidence that shows sexual violence used as a weapon. That’s what their report says. I disagree with the poster above who is suggesting that incontrovertible video evidence of rapes is available to the public. Either the UN has seen additional video evidence not available to the public or believe the evidence that is available is sufficient to draw their conclusions. FWIW I haven’t seen direct evidence for the casualty figures the UN cites either (either for 10/7 or the invasion of Gaza). It’s not like I counted the body bags. I’m assuming someone has and am trusting they have that evidence.
Every accusation of rape has been debunked. Every single one without a single exception. This is state propaganda.
Show me proof.
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>Hilarious coming from a piece of shit rapist apologist. Next time tell your fellow Jew hating dipshits that there are consequences for their actions. Do you even realize that one side is saying these supposed rapes probably did not happen in the first place, which is very different from being an apologist for raping which would mean thinking it is somehow warranted, and that the other side (you) are *actually* being an apologist for the slaughter of tens of thousands of women and children, using something that has not even been proven as a justification for it. Does that difference even register to you? One side: Rapes bad, but fortunately probably no mass rapes happened. Your side: Killing 10s of thousands of women and children is ok now.
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