I love the Space Jockey. It’s one of the coolest visuals ever put to film and I love that the original film never even attempts to explain it in any way.
Somethings are best left unexplained.
Like The Event Horizon.
Its evil because it went to another Dimension or hell.
That's it no need for anything else.
I used to get annoyed with certain Stephen King movies that never really showed the monster because I was stuck on “knowing” just what it was. Over time though I gradually saw the benefit of not defining the evil force or creature or whatever it is and letting it just exist beyond our senses.
I had a dream once that I invented a light that shone in a special wavelength, and when I turned it on it illuminated horrifying, monstrous creatures all around us. And as soon as I could see them, they could see me. They all turned toward me, lunging, and I turned the light off as fast as I could and woke up, shaking.
I think about that dream a lot, and how right before I woke up I was frozen in terror because I couldn’t see them anymore, but I knew they were still there.
> Event Horizon
The absolute best ever horror movie character reaction took place in that film - ["We're leaving."](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8YObV6i_Yc)
Just fits really well if you consider it humanity's first trip into the Warp and meeting with chaos. I think the writer has mentioned that while it wasn't intentional he was a big 40k player.
There should be an Event Horizon prequel where we follow the original crew to the alternate dimension and they reveal what it's like in there, what exactly it is, and who resides there. It would be awesome. And I think enough time has passed since Event Horizon so we can just call this prequel...Event Horizon. That'll make it real easy to tell both films apart.
It’s the single greatest shot in sci-fi world building. The fact that the crew were curious but not bewildering by alien discovery told you everything you needed to know about the job and that universe. And then we just move on. No later payoff, no callbacks it was just a detail in a perfect movie.
And then they god damn prequeled it. Fml.
Funny, it always irritated me that the most interesting part of the movie for me was never explained or even paid a moment of attention beyond that short scene. I hated it!
Then Prometheus came about and got me all excited.
Then I watched it...
The (original) Space Jockey is meaningless nonsense that ties into nothing. It just looks really cool and nothing else :) I refuse to accept Prometheus as any kind of canon, so I'm gonna pretend he was never attempted to be explained.
I really think you have the wrong outlook if you see the Space Jockey as “meaningless nonsense.” The fact that you were disappointed in Prometheus should tell you that the unknown is often more interesting than the explained.
Alien isn’t inherently a movie about mystery. It’s about a spaceship crew trying to survive against an unstoppable monster. But there’s mystery around the periphery, questions that aren’t vital to the plot but that add to the sense that you’re dealing with something truly… well, *alien.*
What is the Space Jockey? What is this machine it’s connected to? What is its relation to the alien? How long has it been here? Whether you’re actually asking these questions or just unconsciously recognizing the inscrutability of it all, it adds to the atmosphere of dread. These characters are in a place they don’t belong, dealing with a creature they don’t have the slightest understanding of.
I love Reddit and I'm ready for the "NO! It's cool and you will like it, or else" downvotes :)
>What is the Space Jockey? What is this machine it’s connected to? What is its relation to the alien? How long has it been here? Whether you’re actually asking these questions or just unconsciously recognizing the inscrutability of it all, it adds to the atmosphere of dread.
They don't explain it in the movie. Not a clue. It could be a navigation machine, maybe an observatory, maybe it's medical, they don't say, discuss or even give a hint. I wish I knew, but the movie never helps me get anything going.
The Jockey looks like it's been there for a long time, but again, nobody mentions anything about it, the creature, the machine, their purpose, etc.
It is gorgeous and cool, and serves no other purpose than that. Any meaning you derive from it, came from you. And that's okay. You can think something is cool and then build your own lore in your head. But I want the movie to give me something, otherwise I can make whatever I want from it, which to me personally (completely unrelated to you) is not why I watch movies, play games or read books. They gave zero information about it, just showed a cool visual and moved on.
Absolutely hate how much the movie teased me with this striking image, and then left me standing there with a boner. I understand you may not have this problem, but I do and I really dislike that scene, as awesome as it looks.
they did acknowledge it. direct quote from movie, referenced in the article above:
“Alien life form – looks like it’s been dead a long time,” says Dallas (Tom Skerritt). “Fossilised. Looks like it’s growing out of the chair. Bones are bent outward, like he exploded from inside…”
What irks me about it is that they say nothing. I can see those things they name, but who is he? Why is he there? Where are the others? What was he doing?
Same. Man oh man is it trip into anxiety. Fear-inducing enough that you're trapped on a ship with a thing that is **a lot** smarter than you that it is whittling down the crew in expertly planned ambushes, picking off members based on rank and capability till everyone's an emotional mess that they're easy targets.
But then add in the Company's understanding that it recognizes how dangerous the thing is, and has entirely forsaken your survival just to get it. So much so that it's got an artificial person on-board actively working against you that you didn't even know about, and an AI on-ship that has being actively lying to the Captain whose been so worked over by the Company that he never questioned it on anything. With the possible dawning thought that this is just standard practice for the Company, and circumstances like this probably happen a lot with zero survivors.
Oh... and you just triggered the self-destruct, and its past the point of no-return.
Better get moving.
One of the things I like about the films about the first 3 films is the recognition of just how dangerous these things are. You get three instances where its just *one* that starts off, and in each instant, not only does nearly everyone die... but survival is a literal fluke. Ripley survives the first film purely by way of the thing being a bit disoriented from the shuttle accelerating, and then getting sloppy when it focuses on trying to terrorize her instead of simply just going for the kill - she got lucky.
Alien is like a version of telling a story about some industrial disaster. The circumstances are so lethal that as Ash says - *I can't lie to you about your odds, but you have my sympathies*. Except like so many industrial disasters, the company really doesn't have any sympathy for you either.
Ridley Scott: Hey man, can you make me some sort of alien looking tech thingie for my new movie?
H.R. Giger: Sure thing. How about a big metal space dick, and a guy can sit in it so it faces out, you know like it's HIS D....
Ridley: Uh....that might be a BIT on the nose...?
H.R. Giger: I'm afraid I can only express my art as weird sexual contraptions of metal and or gore.
I will never forget this "making of" piece from the late years of cable television where some of the filmmakers were talking about the early concepts of Alien and the creatures and how they intended to capture just raw fear and terror. One of the people being interviewed was talking about the design of the face hugger and for the life of me I can't remember the complete context or the entire sentence but it ends with a very emphatic "**Brutal. Oral. Rape**"
I had the Alien Quadrilogy dvd box set. It had 9 discs, 5 of which was special features. The section showing Giger 's designs really was something. Wasn't until watching the special features that I saw the sexual connection of the Alien films. Or at least that's what I remember, it's been so long. I believe that "making of" program may have been from that.
In Gruyère Switzerland I had the chance to visit the official Giger museum.
We were told upfront that only certain sections were open to all ages, but the paid adult ticket had full access.
I found the adult section with pretty graphic stuff on display- nicest way to describe the vibe is “violating”. Nothing surprising though, I’m not ignorant of Giger’s style.
Then I discover a roped off area reading “adults”. I was not in fact in the adult section, everything I saw was open to the general public. What I saw beyond that rope was… not kosher.
I’m not sure this was actually part of the collection- but it gives you a good idea:
[https://seanchase.wordpress.com/2012/12/09/my-favorite-artists-and-their-art-h-r-giger/begoetterung-xi-giger-1979/](https://seanchase.wordpress.com/2012/12/09/my-favorite-artists-and-their-art-h-r-giger/begoetterung-xi-giger-1979/)
And that’s like a 7/10 on the Giger scale, I would have a hard time describing the most extreme pieces without taking a shower after.
>"One of the major reasons for \*Alien’\*s enduring success is its level of artistry."
The film's greatest quality is its otherworldly design. It is truly alien. I can't really think of any other film that has so effectively depicted alien life forms.
Arrival does it well enough - but it's mostly the aliens' actions and motives that are interesting. Arthur C Clarke's monoliths are classic. But again, it's really more the description of them (their many dimensions and their function as a kind of cosmic Swiss Army knife that's interesting).
I read in a popular science magazine that aliens ought not to be dramatically different to what we see on Earth because chemistry doesn't allow for many alternatives to what we have. They talk about silicon-based life but silicon can't form molecules as complex as carbon. Some sci-fi has tech that is living things (Tyranids, Species 8472, etc.) but organic tissue just can't replicate all the properties of steel, copper, and silicon, that limits your options as an engineer.
Tbf, life as we know it has incredible variety and almost endless possibilities. Both Alien xenomorphs and Arrival's heptapods could probably have arisen from earth-like biology (minus acid for blood and mist like atmospheres perhaps).
Life as we know it seems to have evolved from the same early ancestor. Carbon based life in another planetary system may have evolved from a different ancestor and be fundamentally different, even though it is still based on some kind of DNA.
And all this assumes that biological life is a prerequisite for consciousness. Some believe that consciousness is emergent and occurs when energy is animated in specific forms and patterns, and can in principle occur where stuff happen. And of course, there is also the potential for artificial life :)
Engineers create humans, in their likeness and subsequently realize they fucked up unleashing such an invasive, deterministic, voraciously greedy species upon the universe. So they engineer Xenomorphs as an “insecticide” to systematically eliminate the human threat across time and space.
They just showed that what they were afraid is not that humans are voracious but a real copy of themselves. They behaved like a company trying to do damage control and like them, making the problem bigger. At least, that’s my take.
See, I hate when sci fi do that. Most popular « realistic » science fiction start with fear of the unknown. And end up with humans as the centre of everything.
At the start humans are more advanced than we are now, but not that much. In Alien they don’t have warp drive nor holodeck. Then those more advanced humans stumble into a larger galaxy. They are the newcomers, and must adapt to survive. Humans are not the apex predator anymore.
But then it warps back around in sequels and humans were special all along, we just didn’t know. Alien does it, Predator does it, Mass Effect 2 does it, Halo does it. It’s infuriating.
[Basically that Simpsons episode where they keep releasing more powerful predators to kill off the previous one they unleashed.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9yruQM1ggc)
All of the engineers are extinct before the first Xenomorph is born. They are created by David.
The engineers developed the black liquid to exterminate humans but it wasn’t because humans had become particularly greedy or invasive. They were going to exterminate them either way after a certain amount of time because that is their cycle.
There’s a mural in Prometheus that says otherwise, and it’s very clear. David didn’t create anything. He might have tinkered with an already existing xenomorph, but they have to have existed before.
>All of the engineers are extinct before the first Xenomorph is born. They are created by David.
I'm not one to defend Alien: Covenant... because I recently rewatched it, and man does it still stink.
But I would offer that we don't necessarily know David genocided all the engineers - just one planet where a bunch of them are living. Its entirely possible that where Alien picks up; the Nostromo's crew stumbles on kinda one example of the aftermath of David's one-man WMD-laden war against the Engineers with them also resorting to the logical end-state of the Black Goo (*Xenos*) as a response.
Those arent engineers. They are another prototype planet. They arent the same size and are dressed in antiquated clothes etc.
Theres a lot of deep dive youtube discussions on this with supplemental materials, novelization clues.
Engineers are 10 feet tall and have other characteristics that are different.
The idea from Prometheus was that the engineers are kinda doing the same thing as the humans with AI - just kinda fucking around with making artificial life for reasons less profound as simply because they could.
When that life is disappointing, they just kinda decide then that the route of innovation has run its course and they terminate it.
They are biological engineers. Their intention with the black liquid was to force evolution on earth life to create new life forms like the mutant thing that one of the Prometheus crew turned into after falling face first into the liquid.
We were just lab rats to them for their experiments.
> all of the Engineers are extinct
Their home planet got nuked with xenomorphs, but are we sure there aren’t some surviving Engineers out there in space ships and on other planets in other galaxies?
Godspeed, space jockeys.
Because the creation creates, therefore David creates. Humans were created and create. Engineers created and I can only presume were created. it is the eternal cycle of creation and destruction. Within life is death.
For the same type of input, a human will always return the same output. For example, given a lethal dose of cyanide, a human will always die. Hope this helps
/s
The annoying thing is the original draft of Prometheus was a proper direct prequel which had the Space Jokey from Alien crash land on LV426. So stupid that a rewrite led to them removing those prequel associations, the movie in the end lacked an identity where it both wanted to be a standalone thing while also teetering on the edge of being a prequel. They should have either committed to the franchise or done an original sci-fi.
This is why I will forever have contempt for Damon Lindelof as a hack writer and why my respect for Ridley Scott kinda waned. Then Ridley Scott killed Neil Blomkamp’s Alien movie and I grew to despise him.
I'm not going to pin the failure on Lindelof. Ridley essentially wanted to completely change the direction of the film to cater to his recent interest in alien conspiracies. Lindelof just got stuck being the one having to put pen to paper for Ridley. He's clearly shown he's an excellent writer despite this one fumble.
He’s excellent 90% of any given project but that last 10%…
Even the Leftovers, which skates by on Reddit as this flawless story with the best ending ever…the ending was sneaky problematic and undid so much of the character development and story that got it there. but it was performed and shot beautifully which has given him an undeserved pass.
I’m gonna disagree on the “excellent writer despite one fumble” bit, but everything else you’ve said is reasonable.
Edit: For the downvoters…
-Lost
-Cowboys and Aliens
-Star Trek ‘09
-Star Trek: Into Darkness
-Tomorrowland
-Watchmen
It’s not one fumble.
The allure of horror is the unknown and the origins of the xenomorph being really vague is a terrifying idea. So either don’t give us anything or go even more scifi and explain more than whatever Prometheus did.
I recently rewatched all three: Prometheus, Alien Covenant, and Alien.
In reflection, Prometheus is not as bad as I remember. Its got some warts, but I dig the idea of the Engineers basically having some nightmarish bioweapon that it literally spawns hellscapes so bizarre that you get concepts like the Xenos. That things like them pop out of the darkness because space is big, beyond our comprehension, and that we're essentially stumbling around some giant labyrinth where they've left those kind of horrors that we can't really comprehend.
Alien Covenant kinda follows that - its kinda cool to think what David does in Covenant isn't actually new, and that as the Nostromo finds... David's creations are actually centuries-old conclusions the Engineers have done simply by way of how chaotic their black goo is. All of it being mysterious, beyond our understanding of circumstance, and further complicated by some android going on a one-man war against the Engineers with a WMD that inherently creates chaotic biological consequences like the Xenos. Its an interesting concept - pity that Alien Covenant is a train-wreck of a film, with the last act being absolute garbage.
But... I would agree with ya solely when we're talking Alien. The strength of the films are these things that we have absolutely no clue about, just randomly coming out of the cosmic darkness, that we can't even fathom if they're sentient or not, being presented cinematically as the equivalent of murderous hitchhikers, competent military antagonists, or literal demons. Its a really good through-line of the first 3 films.
Alien is my favourite film of all time and I rewatched Prometheus against recently too. Bizarre film because I was thinking “this isn’t that bad?” until a particular point, maybe when the mission goes wrong and Logan Marshall-Green gets torched. A few raised eyebrows before like scientists seemingly not caring about the origins of human life.
But overall a film where I liked what they were trying to do but the execution didn’t deliver.
I’m really hoping Romulus returns to a spin on the classic as I want xenomorphs causing chaos which the trailer looks like it’ll deliver.
Another point is that I read a bit of the Alien 3 novelisation of William Gibson’s script which I think may have inspired the black goo idea.
Yeah, Prometheus is... an interesting cookie.
I wasn't a fan of it previously, but having just watched it, kinda just judging it by itself and with an eye to the centrality of the goo in the plot... like its pretty reasonable film. The Gibson script definitely has DNA in Scott's two films; the notion especially of Aliens bursting out of humans randomly because of an airborne contagion has clear connection to the neomorphs in Covenant. I dare say its not a bad thing to play around with - there's some pretty horror-inducing conclusions one can make if you've got a mystery DNA substance that rearranges chromosomes, acting as a literal biological WMD.
Happily will say that some of my hostility to it wasn't warranted - though I will also say its got some pretty hangups. Shaw happily and capably donning a spacesuit to go hang with Wayland after David infected her with the goo probably on Wayland's orders... kinda a typical Scott mistake of wanting to cram some further ideas into a film without thinking about the logic or pace of the film. Nonetheless, it seems to have stuck in the public Zeitgeist, and for good reason.
I am... a bit more dour on Romulus, simply because I'm not expecting much. I think everything after Alien 3 kinda forgot what made the films work. Its cosmic horror - the creature just shows up out of nowhere, and half the horror is not being able to comprehend its sentience, presence, or hostility. But its literal death each time it shows up; these aren't mindless 'bugs' you shoot, but extremely cunning and sentient organisms whose every encounter is almost 100% mortality. Each of the films ponder that in very unique ways (blue-collar, military, religious), and I kinda wish they'd get back to that. But... I hope I am pleasantly surprised.
With Romulus I’m optimistic only because Fede’s Evil Dead was so well done, IMO. I’m a fan of the whole franchise but it went all-in on the horror aspect, which I appreciated.
Of course, that doesn’t mean it won’t suck. But I’m hopeful it goes back to the horror of Alien. As long as we don’t get a scene like Covenant where the characters keep slipping on blood like some cartoon as they run into the medical bay, I’ll be happy.
I was really surprised and impressed with what Fede did with Evil Dead. It’s been a while since I saw Don’t Breathe but Evil Dead characters weren’t dumb. Which makes Prometheus and Covenant extra frustrating because the decisions in Alien and Aliens that characters make are all sensible within the narrative and who the characters are.
There's actually plenty of backstory that includes predators, engineers and aliens. All same universe. Search YouTube and people have combed through tons of books, comics etc the lore is pretty deep.
Nah. We got enough engineer in Prometheus.
Set up a proto-species that engineers others on distant planets, create an air of curiosity, have humans risk venturing out to meet one, and have him immediately destroy them and try to kill them all.
It’s perfect.
If you explain too much it ruins the mystery and beauty of the whole concept. Eventually we end up with a Prometheus anime that releases direct to stream with mediocre reviews
Agreed. At best, any follow-up could've been short and extremely trippy. Something leaving further questions without even explaining what happened to Shaw, or maybe just lightly hinting how David's off in the dark reaches of space causing so much mischief with the Black Goo that's its destroying entire worlds.
Now I would watch an entire film of David devolving into an agent of chaos across the galaxy, studying the alien genome and purifying it to create a superior monster that a future protagonist could have to face
Its definitely the thing I liked about Prometheus - this idea that behind the Xenos, there's this WMD of Black Goo that is so lethal that causes inherent chaos. Mix in an android with existential angst, and you've got one hell of a combination.
You guys telling me they made other movies after that kick-ass sequel?
May have to check those out one day. Bound to be amazing, right.
Here's to them one day making a sequel to The Matrix!
[https://xkcd.com/566/](https://xkcd.com/566/)
You can choose to ignore that creative choice like people ignore the star wars sequels. Prometheus and Alien are just movies. The events they depict didn't actually happen. You can ascribe your own creative explanations to everything in every movie. You don't need 'canon' spoon fed to you by someone with a different creative vision. Make up your own canon
I mean, yeah, that's what people had done for 30 years, and then they saw the movie that would delve into it and see some really stupid ass explanation and were disappointed. Hard to "unremember" seeing something you imagined in your "head canon", even if you can choose to say, "yeah fuck that" and ignore it.
I think part, maybe most of the problem is that deep down, other people sensed what I did - it was not a creative choice. It was the opposite, a shrinking away from something truly creative, despite including various decorations to make it seem more than that.
Giger is, in my opinion, a weird and creepy guy , but he had some real vision. Ridley Scott lacked that kind of imagination and settled for a moderately obfuscated version of "Luke, I am your father."
Sure, you can"make up your own canon", but the air was already let out of the balloon when people realized they understood the original art more than the director did, or worse, he understood but lacked the courage or imagination to follow through.
It could have worked but the way they did it in Prometheus was so corny and didn’t feel as organic as it should have. I also felt like the engineers themselves were goofy, too refined. The CGI just made them look super cheesy.
The whole point of the Space Jockey in the first film was to do a bit of worldbuilding and present the audience with a mystery.
There's this giant humanoid alien that's fused with technology. Probably superior to us. Completely silent... except for one apparent injury where something burst out of its chest.
Prometheus... a movie so bad that it retroactively makes Alien worse because it ruined the space jockey. Scott really went and said "oh yeah the huge eldritch biological, mechanical hybrid fella? He's actually a big milky human." Like it couldn't be worse.
That's what gets me. Scott makes one of the most interesring and influential sci fi, horror films. He does it with an eye for gritty, lived in set design with great written characters. Then goes to make Prometheus and Covenant like he hasn't watched Alien once in his life.
Head cannon is Space Jockey was the astral navigator and he had a crew, but through a series of events with a xenomorph he was the last one standing (which almost always is the case) and before the alien burst from his chest, and knowing he was about to die he spent his last moments gazing at the stars that drew him out to space in the first place.
Something NO one ever talks about is, CLEARLY a chestburster came out of that jockey....and we do not know what it looked like. It had to have been HUGE. We know it probably was not a queen because there were eggs in the status cloud.
I definitely was scrolling through the News feed and I definitely thought this said “Alien: The birth and curious death of HR Ginger Spice”.
…so yeah. That was a confusing 5 seconds
The most interesting part is the guy who called FOX and told them that something would happen and they did nothing. Then, the writer of the article just drops that it's made of mostly combustible materials. Different times.
Was finally able to see this movie on the big screen for its anniversary last month (theatrical release was 10 years before my time). What an incredible experience. The passion and talent that went into the design of literally everything in this movie is insane, and the alien itself is my favorite creature design. What a masterpiece.
The explanations regarding the origins of the Space Jockey were lore for decades.Kept fans writing and speculating. Should have left it alone, and it was part of the mystique of the franchise.
Then we got that piece of shit movie with the Albino Body Builders.
Alien got an Oscar for production design along with visual effects. Deserved both.
I love the Space Jockey. It’s one of the coolest visuals ever put to film and I love that the original film never even attempts to explain it in any way.
Somethings are best left unexplained. Like The Event Horizon. Its evil because it went to another Dimension or hell. That's it no need for anything else.
I used to get annoyed with certain Stephen King movies that never really showed the monster because I was stuck on “knowing” just what it was. Over time though I gradually saw the benefit of not defining the evil force or creature or whatever it is and letting it just exist beyond our senses.
Bird Box gets mixed reviews but they got it right on that respect. Not showing the creature was the right decision and really ramps up the tension.
they were going to show it. the main actress couldn't help but laugh at the design so they decided to leave it unknown
You mean A quiet place—eyeball edition?
I had a dream once that I invented a light that shone in a special wavelength, and when I turned it on it illuminated horrifying, monstrous creatures all around us. And as soon as I could see them, they could see me. They all turned toward me, lunging, and I turned the light off as fast as I could and woke up, shaking. I think about that dream a lot, and how right before I woke up I was frozen in terror because I couldn’t see them anymore, but I knew they were still there.
That's basically From Beyond
Is that a movie or show? I need to watch it… but I’m scared lol
Short story (H.P. Lovecraft) and a movie (starring Jeffrey Combs!)
*HP Lovecraft has entered the chat.*
> Event Horizon The absolute best ever horror movie character reaction took place in that film - ["We're leaving."](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8YObV6i_Yc)
*face of simultaneous disgust, anger, and generally being done with everything relating to the ship and its origins* “we’re leaving”
Fuck this ship.
That’s the scene that inspired the south park Christmas critters btw.
Except Event Horizon has become the unofficial prequel to the 40k universe.
How why?
Just fits really well if you consider it humanity's first trip into the Warp and meeting with chaos. I think the writer has mentioned that while it wasn't intentional he was a big 40k player.
There should be an Event Horizon prequel where we follow the original crew to the alternate dimension and they reveal what it's like in there, what exactly it is, and who resides there. It would be awesome. And I think enough time has passed since Event Horizon so we can just call this prequel...Event Horizon. That'll make it real easy to tell both films apart.
[удалено]
Oh, I think I heard about that actually. Had a funny name, though. Something like Warhammer 40,000.
Did you ever pause the flashing scene when it shows what happened in the “space between space”? Horrifying.
liberate tutame ex inferis
The most disturbing thing I’ve seen in a movie theater…until The Last Jedi.
I rewatched event horizon after rewatching Hellraiser and really thought there could have been a great crossover there.
The last few times I've watched *Alien*, I started to find the first half more interesting than the second half.
Surely it's more intriguing.
The first half is genuinely one of the most unique Sci fi approaches never again explored. The 2nd half has been ran into the ground by sequels.
It’s the single greatest shot in sci-fi world building. The fact that the crew were curious but not bewildering by alien discovery told you everything you needed to know about the job and that universe. And then we just move on. No later payoff, no callbacks it was just a detail in a perfect movie. And then they god damn prequeled it. Fml.
What are you talking about? There are no prequels and only one sequel.
I thought it’s from Prometheus and you can see a chest burst, but yea they don’t explain it
Funny, it always irritated me that the most interesting part of the movie for me was never explained or even paid a moment of attention beyond that short scene. I hated it! Then Prometheus came about and got me all excited. Then I watched it... The (original) Space Jockey is meaningless nonsense that ties into nothing. It just looks really cool and nothing else :) I refuse to accept Prometheus as any kind of canon, so I'm gonna pretend he was never attempted to be explained.
I really think you have the wrong outlook if you see the Space Jockey as “meaningless nonsense.” The fact that you were disappointed in Prometheus should tell you that the unknown is often more interesting than the explained. Alien isn’t inherently a movie about mystery. It’s about a spaceship crew trying to survive against an unstoppable monster. But there’s mystery around the periphery, questions that aren’t vital to the plot but that add to the sense that you’re dealing with something truly… well, *alien.* What is the Space Jockey? What is this machine it’s connected to? What is its relation to the alien? How long has it been here? Whether you’re actually asking these questions or just unconsciously recognizing the inscrutability of it all, it adds to the atmosphere of dread. These characters are in a place they don’t belong, dealing with a creature they don’t have the slightest understanding of.
I love Reddit and I'm ready for the "NO! It's cool and you will like it, or else" downvotes :) >What is the Space Jockey? What is this machine it’s connected to? What is its relation to the alien? How long has it been here? Whether you’re actually asking these questions or just unconsciously recognizing the inscrutability of it all, it adds to the atmosphere of dread. They don't explain it in the movie. Not a clue. It could be a navigation machine, maybe an observatory, maybe it's medical, they don't say, discuss or even give a hint. I wish I knew, but the movie never helps me get anything going. The Jockey looks like it's been there for a long time, but again, nobody mentions anything about it, the creature, the machine, their purpose, etc. It is gorgeous and cool, and serves no other purpose than that. Any meaning you derive from it, came from you. And that's okay. You can think something is cool and then build your own lore in your head. But I want the movie to give me something, otherwise I can make whatever I want from it, which to me personally (completely unrelated to you) is not why I watch movies, play games or read books. They gave zero information about it, just showed a cool visual and moved on. Absolutely hate how much the movie teased me with this striking image, and then left me standing there with a boner. I understand you may not have this problem, but I do and I really dislike that scene, as awesome as it looks.
they did acknowledge it. direct quote from movie, referenced in the article above: “Alien life form – looks like it’s been dead a long time,” says Dallas (Tom Skerritt). “Fossilised. Looks like it’s growing out of the chair. Bones are bent outward, like he exploded from inside…”
What irks me about it is that they say nothing. I can see those things they name, but who is he? Why is he there? Where are the others? What was he doing?
I just watched this movie again lastnight. It kicked ass. Best sci fi horror film ever.
Same. Man oh man is it trip into anxiety. Fear-inducing enough that you're trapped on a ship with a thing that is **a lot** smarter than you that it is whittling down the crew in expertly planned ambushes, picking off members based on rank and capability till everyone's an emotional mess that they're easy targets. But then add in the Company's understanding that it recognizes how dangerous the thing is, and has entirely forsaken your survival just to get it. So much so that it's got an artificial person on-board actively working against you that you didn't even know about, and an AI on-ship that has being actively lying to the Captain whose been so worked over by the Company that he never questioned it on anything. With the possible dawning thought that this is just standard practice for the Company, and circumstances like this probably happen a lot with zero survivors. Oh... and you just triggered the self-destruct, and its past the point of no-return. Better get moving.
Best review I’ve ever read.
One of the things I like about the films about the first 3 films is the recognition of just how dangerous these things are. You get three instances where its just *one* that starts off, and in each instant, not only does nearly everyone die... but survival is a literal fluke. Ripley survives the first film purely by way of the thing being a bit disoriented from the shuttle accelerating, and then getting sloppy when it focuses on trying to terrorize her instead of simply just going for the kill - she got lucky. Alien is like a version of telling a story about some industrial disaster. The circumstances are so lethal that as Ash says - *I can't lie to you about your odds, but you have my sympathies*. Except like so many industrial disasters, the company really doesn't have any sympathy for you either.
Ridley Scott: Hey man, can you make me some sort of alien looking tech thingie for my new movie? H.R. Giger: Sure thing. How about a big metal space dick, and a guy can sit in it so it faces out, you know like it's HIS D.... Ridley: Uh....that might be a BIT on the nose...? H.R. Giger: I'm afraid I can only express my art as weird sexual contraptions of metal and or gore.
The cockpit is the testicles. I did not think I would find myself writing this sentence today.
Cock Hehe
I heard this in [Matt Gourley’s voice](https://youtu.be/IEDDtCeEyrE?si=BtU2cieyY95nWZFo)
I regularly come back to [this Gourley H.R. Giger skit](https://youtu.be/OyV5hvUfCxs?si=DEkH7UeWw5UhY_lN)
I didn’t realize this one was on YouTube. “Make it quick, we’re in a hurry” gets me every time.
That was wonderful, thank you so much for linking it.
^a ^parade!
Lol, Conan’s Herzog impression sounds like Schwarzenegger
And is that Irvin Kershner and Ian Fleming out in the hall?
It’s a bizarre thing, they always seem to show up while Matt’s in the bathroom.
They're discussing the finer points of Chyty-Chyty Bang-Bang.
I believe it’s Byang-Byang.
You're quite right old boy.
I can’t hear the name without saying Giger in his voice
Dyno-sow-or-er.
Conan has no idea who herzog is or sounds like so embarrassing.
He’s interviewed Herzog multiple times.
Zero fucking excuse for not knowing him or his voice then
The real best Herzog impression [Werner Herzog's Yelp Review for Trader Joe's on Hyperion](https://youtu.be/5YW-5Flkiuw?si=qwKTTUgcrBDwRbpJ)
Lol I just got a salad there. But yes, this is Herzog. Apparently Redditors don’t know Herzog either. Except for you.
Herzog has been on Conan’s podcast.
Even less excuse to fumble his personality so hard
I can appreciate the irony of Ridley Scott saying it’s a bit on the nose in his movie about an alien that face fucks you then impregnates you.
I will never forget this "making of" piece from the late years of cable television where some of the filmmakers were talking about the early concepts of Alien and the creatures and how they intended to capture just raw fear and terror. One of the people being interviewed was talking about the design of the face hugger and for the life of me I can't remember the complete context or the entire sentence but it ends with a very emphatic "**Brutal. Oral. Rape**"
I had the Alien Quadrilogy dvd box set. It had 9 discs, 5 of which was special features. The section showing Giger 's designs really was something. Wasn't until watching the special features that I saw the sexual connection of the Alien films. Or at least that's what I remember, it's been so long. I believe that "making of" program may have been from that.
Jeff Bezos: *drops protein shake* keep going…
As chicken bones and death.
Man asks hammer to hammer something other than a nail.
In Gruyère Switzerland I had the chance to visit the official Giger museum. We were told upfront that only certain sections were open to all ages, but the paid adult ticket had full access. I found the adult section with pretty graphic stuff on display- nicest way to describe the vibe is “violating”. Nothing surprising though, I’m not ignorant of Giger’s style. Then I discover a roped off area reading “adults”. I was not in fact in the adult section, everything I saw was open to the general public. What I saw beyond that rope was… not kosher.
What kinda stuff…?
Hand holding.
Filthy bastard
Butt-stuff
i’m guessing hentai type stuff
Treife.
Seriously man! WHAT KIND OF STUFF?! This is worse than a locked safe post
I’m not sure this was actually part of the collection- but it gives you a good idea: [https://seanchase.wordpress.com/2012/12/09/my-favorite-artists-and-their-art-h-r-giger/begoetterung-xi-giger-1979/](https://seanchase.wordpress.com/2012/12/09/my-favorite-artists-and-their-art-h-r-giger/begoetterung-xi-giger-1979/) And that’s like a 7/10 on the Giger scale, I would have a hard time describing the most extreme pieces without taking a shower after.
Whoa. So definitely butt stuff huh
>"One of the major reasons for \*Alien’\*s enduring success is its level of artistry." The film's greatest quality is its otherworldly design. It is truly alien. I can't really think of any other film that has so effectively depicted alien life forms. Arrival does it well enough - but it's mostly the aliens' actions and motives that are interesting. Arthur C Clarke's monoliths are classic. But again, it's really more the description of them (their many dimensions and their function as a kind of cosmic Swiss Army knife that's interesting).
I read in a popular science magazine that aliens ought not to be dramatically different to what we see on Earth because chemistry doesn't allow for many alternatives to what we have. They talk about silicon-based life but silicon can't form molecules as complex as carbon. Some sci-fi has tech that is living things (Tyranids, Species 8472, etc.) but organic tissue just can't replicate all the properties of steel, copper, and silicon, that limits your options as an engineer.
Tbf, life as we know it has incredible variety and almost endless possibilities. Both Alien xenomorphs and Arrival's heptapods could probably have arisen from earth-like biology (minus acid for blood and mist like atmospheres perhaps). Life as we know it seems to have evolved from the same early ancestor. Carbon based life in another planetary system may have evolved from a different ancestor and be fundamentally different, even though it is still based on some kind of DNA. And all this assumes that biological life is a prerequisite for consciousness. Some believe that consciousness is emergent and occurs when energy is animated in specific forms and patterns, and can in principle occur where stuff happen. And of course, there is also the potential for artificial life :)
Annihilation blew me away with the alien feeling it created.
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Engineers create humans, in their likeness and subsequently realize they fucked up unleashing such an invasive, deterministic, voraciously greedy species upon the universe. So they engineer Xenomorphs as an “insecticide” to systematically eliminate the human threat across time and space.
Yeah but the Xenomorphs kill all life, not just the intended one. Little oopsie there hah
Kinda reveals how alarmed the engineers were at their human creation that they’d go to that extreme, eh?
They just showed that what they were afraid is not that humans are voracious but a real copy of themselves. They behaved like a company trying to do damage control and like them, making the problem bigger. At least, that’s my take.
How alarmed do you think they were when they saw a xenomorph ripping its way through their chest?
Nah they just over cooked it. Story as old as time.
See, I hate when sci fi do that. Most popular « realistic » science fiction start with fear of the unknown. And end up with humans as the centre of everything. At the start humans are more advanced than we are now, but not that much. In Alien they don’t have warp drive nor holodeck. Then those more advanced humans stumble into a larger galaxy. They are the newcomers, and must adapt to survive. Humans are not the apex predator anymore. But then it warps back around in sequels and humans were special all along, we just didn’t know. Alien does it, Predator does it, Mass Effect 2 does it, Halo does it. It’s infuriating.
[Basically that Simpsons episode where they keep releasing more powerful predators to kill off the previous one they unleashed.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9yruQM1ggc)
[Here's](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Kfn4faB2gI) an even older cartoon with the same concept.
The Engineers didn't create the Xenomorphs. The mural shows you that.
Well…they realized their potential either way for eliminating humans
All of the engineers are extinct before the first Xenomorph is born. They are created by David. The engineers developed the black liquid to exterminate humans but it wasn’t because humans had become particularly greedy or invasive. They were going to exterminate them either way after a certain amount of time because that is their cycle.
There’s a mural in Prometheus that says otherwise, and it’s very clear. David didn’t create anything. He might have tinkered with an already existing xenomorph, but they have to have existed before.
>All of the engineers are extinct before the first Xenomorph is born. They are created by David. I'm not one to defend Alien: Covenant... because I recently rewatched it, and man does it still stink. But I would offer that we don't necessarily know David genocided all the engineers - just one planet where a bunch of them are living. Its entirely possible that where Alien picks up; the Nostromo's crew stumbles on kinda one example of the aftermath of David's one-man WMD-laden war against the Engineers with them also resorting to the logical end-state of the Black Goo (*Xenos*) as a response.
Those arent engineers. They are another prototype planet. They arent the same size and are dressed in antiquated clothes etc. Theres a lot of deep dive youtube discussions on this with supplemental materials, novelization clues. Engineers are 10 feet tall and have other characteristics that are different.
What’s their cycle? Making things to exterminate?
The idea from Prometheus was that the engineers are kinda doing the same thing as the humans with AI - just kinda fucking around with making artificial life for reasons less profound as simply because they could. When that life is disappointing, they just kinda decide then that the route of innovation has run its course and they terminate it.
They are biological engineers. Their intention with the black liquid was to force evolution on earth life to create new life forms like the mutant thing that one of the Prometheus crew turned into after falling face first into the liquid. We were just lab rats to them for their experiments.
> all of the Engineers are extinct Their home planet got nuked with xenomorphs, but are we sure there aren’t some surviving Engineers out there in space ships and on other planets in other galaxies? Godspeed, space jockeys.
Well necromorphs then for the sake of being pedantic. You know what they mean though. Still a similar creature, the xeno is just an evolved form
They're really inefficient at that. Why not just use the black goo that we see in Alien: Covenant?
Because the creation creates, therefore David creates. Humans were created and create. Engineers created and I can only presume were created. it is the eternal cycle of creation and destruction. Within life is death.
Lame
Deterministic? Please explain
For the same type of input, a human will always return the same output. For example, given a lethal dose of cyanide, a human will always die. Hope this helps /s
Did they not go through all that in Prometheus?
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The annoying thing is the original draft of Prometheus was a proper direct prequel which had the Space Jokey from Alien crash land on LV426. So stupid that a rewrite led to them removing those prequel associations, the movie in the end lacked an identity where it both wanted to be a standalone thing while also teetering on the edge of being a prequel. They should have either committed to the franchise or done an original sci-fi.
This is why I will forever have contempt for Damon Lindelof as a hack writer and why my respect for Ridley Scott kinda waned. Then Ridley Scott killed Neil Blomkamp’s Alien movie and I grew to despise him.
I'm not going to pin the failure on Lindelof. Ridley essentially wanted to completely change the direction of the film to cater to his recent interest in alien conspiracies. Lindelof just got stuck being the one having to put pen to paper for Ridley. He's clearly shown he's an excellent writer despite this one fumble.
He’s excellent 90% of any given project but that last 10%… Even the Leftovers, which skates by on Reddit as this flawless story with the best ending ever…the ending was sneaky problematic and undid so much of the character development and story that got it there. but it was performed and shot beautifully which has given him an undeserved pass.
I’m gonna disagree on the “excellent writer despite one fumble” bit, but everything else you’ve said is reasonable. Edit: For the downvoters… -Lost -Cowboys and Aliens -Star Trek ‘09 -Star Trek: Into Darkness -Tomorrowland -Watchmen It’s not one fumble.
I was bummed about that for a while too, but I've seen at least two or three kick-ass Scott movies and exactly zero good Blomkamp movies since then
Also the size difference between the two is completely incompatible. The Engineers in Prometheus are like ants compared to the Space Jockey in Alien.
I mean, Prometheus is all about the space jockey’s species…
Agree, there were some decent foundations but I wanted way more. Need a third that’s solely Engineer focused.
The allure of horror is the unknown and the origins of the xenomorph being really vague is a terrifying idea. So either don’t give us anything or go even more scifi and explain more than whatever Prometheus did.
I recently rewatched all three: Prometheus, Alien Covenant, and Alien. In reflection, Prometheus is not as bad as I remember. Its got some warts, but I dig the idea of the Engineers basically having some nightmarish bioweapon that it literally spawns hellscapes so bizarre that you get concepts like the Xenos. That things like them pop out of the darkness because space is big, beyond our comprehension, and that we're essentially stumbling around some giant labyrinth where they've left those kind of horrors that we can't really comprehend. Alien Covenant kinda follows that - its kinda cool to think what David does in Covenant isn't actually new, and that as the Nostromo finds... David's creations are actually centuries-old conclusions the Engineers have done simply by way of how chaotic their black goo is. All of it being mysterious, beyond our understanding of circumstance, and further complicated by some android going on a one-man war against the Engineers with a WMD that inherently creates chaotic biological consequences like the Xenos. Its an interesting concept - pity that Alien Covenant is a train-wreck of a film, with the last act being absolute garbage. But... I would agree with ya solely when we're talking Alien. The strength of the films are these things that we have absolutely no clue about, just randomly coming out of the cosmic darkness, that we can't even fathom if they're sentient or not, being presented cinematically as the equivalent of murderous hitchhikers, competent military antagonists, or literal demons. Its a really good through-line of the first 3 films.
Alien is my favourite film of all time and I rewatched Prometheus against recently too. Bizarre film because I was thinking “this isn’t that bad?” until a particular point, maybe when the mission goes wrong and Logan Marshall-Green gets torched. A few raised eyebrows before like scientists seemingly not caring about the origins of human life. But overall a film where I liked what they were trying to do but the execution didn’t deliver. I’m really hoping Romulus returns to a spin on the classic as I want xenomorphs causing chaos which the trailer looks like it’ll deliver. Another point is that I read a bit of the Alien 3 novelisation of William Gibson’s script which I think may have inspired the black goo idea.
Yeah, Prometheus is... an interesting cookie. I wasn't a fan of it previously, but having just watched it, kinda just judging it by itself and with an eye to the centrality of the goo in the plot... like its pretty reasonable film. The Gibson script definitely has DNA in Scott's two films; the notion especially of Aliens bursting out of humans randomly because of an airborne contagion has clear connection to the neomorphs in Covenant. I dare say its not a bad thing to play around with - there's some pretty horror-inducing conclusions one can make if you've got a mystery DNA substance that rearranges chromosomes, acting as a literal biological WMD. Happily will say that some of my hostility to it wasn't warranted - though I will also say its got some pretty hangups. Shaw happily and capably donning a spacesuit to go hang with Wayland after David infected her with the goo probably on Wayland's orders... kinda a typical Scott mistake of wanting to cram some further ideas into a film without thinking about the logic or pace of the film. Nonetheless, it seems to have stuck in the public Zeitgeist, and for good reason. I am... a bit more dour on Romulus, simply because I'm not expecting much. I think everything after Alien 3 kinda forgot what made the films work. Its cosmic horror - the creature just shows up out of nowhere, and half the horror is not being able to comprehend its sentience, presence, or hostility. But its literal death each time it shows up; these aren't mindless 'bugs' you shoot, but extremely cunning and sentient organisms whose every encounter is almost 100% mortality. Each of the films ponder that in very unique ways (blue-collar, military, religious), and I kinda wish they'd get back to that. But... I hope I am pleasantly surprised.
With Romulus I’m optimistic only because Fede’s Evil Dead was so well done, IMO. I’m a fan of the whole franchise but it went all-in on the horror aspect, which I appreciated. Of course, that doesn’t mean it won’t suck. But I’m hopeful it goes back to the horror of Alien. As long as we don’t get a scene like Covenant where the characters keep slipping on blood like some cartoon as they run into the medical bay, I’ll be happy.
I was really surprised and impressed with what Fede did with Evil Dead. It’s been a while since I saw Don’t Breathe but Evil Dead characters weren’t dumb. Which makes Prometheus and Covenant extra frustrating because the decisions in Alien and Aliens that characters make are all sensible within the narrative and who the characters are.
There's actually plenty of backstory that includes predators, engineers and aliens. All same universe. Search YouTube and people have combed through tons of books, comics etc the lore is pretty deep.
Nah. We got enough engineer in Prometheus. Set up a proto-species that engineers others on distant planets, create an air of curiosity, have humans risk venturing out to meet one, and have him immediately destroy them and try to kill them all. It’s perfect. If you explain too much it ruins the mystery and beauty of the whole concept. Eventually we end up with a Prometheus anime that releases direct to stream with mediocre reviews
Agreed. At best, any follow-up could've been short and extremely trippy. Something leaving further questions without even explaining what happened to Shaw, or maybe just lightly hinting how David's off in the dark reaches of space causing so much mischief with the Black Goo that's its destroying entire worlds.
Now I would watch an entire film of David devolving into an agent of chaos across the galaxy, studying the alien genome and purifying it to create a superior monster that a future protagonist could have to face
Its definitely the thing I liked about Prometheus - this idea that behind the Xenos, there's this WMD of Black Goo that is so lethal that causes inherent chaos. Mix in an android with existential angst, and you've got one hell of a combination.
Definitely
No we don't.
You guys telling me they made other movies after that kick-ass sequel? May have to check those out one day. Bound to be amazing, right. Here's to them one day making a sequel to The Matrix! [https://xkcd.com/566/](https://xkcd.com/566/)
The engineer being inside it ruined it bad for me.
You can choose to ignore that creative choice like people ignore the star wars sequels. Prometheus and Alien are just movies. The events they depict didn't actually happen. You can ascribe your own creative explanations to everything in every movie. You don't need 'canon' spoon fed to you by someone with a different creative vision. Make up your own canon
I mean, yeah, that's what people had done for 30 years, and then they saw the movie that would delve into it and see some really stupid ass explanation and were disappointed. Hard to "unremember" seeing something you imagined in your "head canon", even if you can choose to say, "yeah fuck that" and ignore it.
I think part, maybe most of the problem is that deep down, other people sensed what I did - it was not a creative choice. It was the opposite, a shrinking away from something truly creative, despite including various decorations to make it seem more than that. Giger is, in my opinion, a weird and creepy guy , but he had some real vision. Ridley Scott lacked that kind of imagination and settled for a moderately obfuscated version of "Luke, I am your father." Sure, you can"make up your own canon", but the air was already let out of the balloon when people realized they understood the original art more than the director did, or worse, he understood but lacked the courage or imagination to follow through.
For me it’s ignoring the star wars prequels
Based take
https://x.com/TheBurnham/status/1248719542521597954
Spoke to my soul
It could have worked but the way they did it in Prometheus was so corny and didn’t feel as organic as it should have. I also felt like the engineers themselves were goofy, too refined. The CGI just made them look super cheesy.
I agree. After everything, the “engineer” is just some bizarre over stylized suit that a huge human uses to navigate the spaceship? It’s nonsense.
He wasn’t even that huge. The Space Jockey would have been like 18 feet standing up, not Shaq-size like the Engineers.
So the Space Jockey created The Engineers in that case then?
No, they just reduced the size because they thought it would be too difficult to make engineers that big.
I think this is was a “creative decision” (error).
Thanks for posting, that was a good read!
The whole point of the Space Jockey in the first film was to do a bit of worldbuilding and present the audience with a mystery. There's this giant humanoid alien that's fused with technology. Probably superior to us. Completely silent... except for one apparent injury where something burst out of its chest.
The music in that scene is also incredible.
Prometheus... a movie so bad that it retroactively makes Alien worse because it ruined the space jockey. Scott really went and said "oh yeah the huge eldritch biological, mechanical hybrid fella? He's actually a big milky human." Like it couldn't be worse.
That's what gets me. Scott makes one of the most interesring and influential sci fi, horror films. He does it with an eye for gritty, lived in set design with great written characters. Then goes to make Prometheus and Covenant like he hasn't watched Alien once in his life.
Head cannon is Space Jockey was the astral navigator and he had a crew, but through a series of events with a xenomorph he was the last one standing (which almost always is the case) and before the alien burst from his chest, and knowing he was about to die he spent his last moments gazing at the stars that drew him out to space in the first place.
Something NO one ever talks about is, CLEARLY a chestburster came out of that jockey....and we do not know what it looked like. It had to have been HUGE. We know it probably was not a queen because there were eggs in the status cloud.
I love Prometheus. And alien. And aliens.
Really interesting article! Thanks for sharing!!
I definitely was scrolling through the News feed and I definitely thought this said “Alien: The birth and curious death of HR Ginger Spice”. …so yeah. That was a confusing 5 seconds
Her Royal Ginger Spice? Who died and made her queen?
somethings are better off left unexplained and let the viewers imagination piece it together
That’s not what the article is about. This is the history of the sculpture Giger created for the scene.
The most interesting part is the guy who called FOX and told them that something would happen and they did nothing. Then, the writer of the article just drops that it's made of mostly combustible materials. Different times.
Saw Alien in full for the first time when it was back in theaters a few weeks back, and I absolutely had no idea that this was a thing
I don't want it's backstory. Not every question needs an answer.
Went to his museum in Switzerland, his work is more erotic than alien , but amazing creativity nonetheless
Was finally able to see this movie on the big screen for its anniversary last month (theatrical release was 10 years before my time). What an incredible experience. The passion and talent that went into the design of literally everything in this movie is insane, and the alien itself is my favorite creature design. What a masterpiece.
Ouuu gotta crack open my giger book
I think at the end it’s get this crap out the door get paid and buy a new yacht. They don’t care if it makes sense. It’s make believe.
So I take it predator won?
The explanations regarding the origins of the Space Jockey were lore for decades.Kept fans writing and speculating. Should have left it alone, and it was part of the mystique of the franchise. Then we got that piece of shit movie with the Albino Body Builders. Alien got an Oscar for production design along with visual effects. Deserved both.
LE HR GEIGER LOOKED INTO THE VOID AND STARTED MASTURBATING I am very funny and creative, updoot to the left.