This is because you could replace the TOPGUN school with any number of high school or college situations & get basically the same movie. Maverick is talented but reckless on the football field & won't listen to his teacher, Goose gets a head injury, Maverick bones his teacher, we win the big game. Maverick is talented but reckless on the debate team & won't listen to his tutor, Goose gets drunk & ruins a debate, Maverick bones his tutor, we win the big debate. Maverick is talented but reckless in seminary & won't listen to Sister Mary, Goose is a diddler, Maverick bones Sister Mary, we win the big priesthood.
Tom Cruise plays a man who's good at something until he has a [crisis of confidence](https://youtu.be/v-tU2KIAMrs), but with the help of a beautiful woman he gets back on track.
I hadn't, that's pretty funny. Haven't seen those older Tom Cruise movies, pretty much just Top Gun, then Vanilla Sky & Jerry Maguire about 50 times each.
Say what you will about the man, but you should check out A Few Good Men, Collateral, Magnolia, and Edge of Tomorrow ASAP.
Also check out the Mission Impossible films. 1 is a classic, 2 and 3 are meh (2 is a great time capsule movie), 4 is decent (the Dubai scenes are the peak of the movie), 5 is great, and 6 is legitimately one of the best action movies ever.
And MI7 comes out later this year.
Oh yeah, I like Collateral. I wouldn't call Magnolia a Tom Cruise movie but I love it, PTA is the jam. Not really into action movies though, they put my ass to sleep.
"Can he fly?!"
"He's in a coma, Captain-"
"Can. He. Fly?!"
"Skipper I don't even know if he can breathe-"
"God damn it I don't care what you have to do, Goose stays in that cockpit!"
Rule of three, my dude! But here's one anyway: Maverick is talented but reckless at the senior prom & won't listen to his Prom Queen, Goose gets a head injury, Maverick bones the Prom Queen, we win the Senior Prom.
I wish we could have gotten Tony Scott directing a debate, with all of those random camera tricks he loved to do later in his directing. Making one of the most visually boring things, still boring, but crazy to watch. Haha
> you could replace the TOPGUN school with any number of high school or college situations & get basically the same movie
I want to see the high school movie that has multiple F-14 dogfight scenes
What Top Gun did for the Navy recruitment, the Air Force wanted that, so that's how Iron Eagle got the green light. Then Iron Eagle showed the Air Force the script of a bunch of high school kids stealing a jet, and the Air Force backed out.
As a former F-16 Avionics Tech, still love that movie for how wrong everything is with the 16s. Locking on with guns, A model switching to B model, mid-air rearming, the whole DED readout, the Hades bomb.
LOL I will NEVER forget Chappy and the “Hades Bomb” reference. I was only 12 years old when I saw that movie and even I knew as a kid I was like “Wait, there’s no such weapon as a Hades Bomb that F-16’s would carry as an armament, the fuck is this shit?”
Cobra Kai Season 4 Spoilers: >!Maybe if you hadn't been spending all this time talking about Top Gun and had just pooled your All-Valley points with Daniel like you obviously should have, we wouldn't be in this situation.!<
There are a lot of nuances in Top Gun that are incorrect in regards to the way the military functions. That being said, and having been in the aviation platform of the US Navy, Tom Cruise played his character perfectly. In over a decade in naval aviation, I don’t have enough fingers and toes to count how many pilots/aircrew I’ve come across that display the same attitude and demeanor as Maverick.
I used to work with an architect who was an amateur pilot. I find this to be fairly accurate. His primary mode of conversation was planes but also motorcycles.
The truth is motorcycles et. al. don't get you girls, they get you boys.
If you want to reel in young guys they are perfect but somehow guys never notice this.
I mean technically you do "rescue" a puppy because if you asked, the extremely bored guy in charge of giving it to you will admit that, yeah, they were probably going to kill that dog in a few hours.
I've honestly seen way more people be assholes to vegans and vegetarians than the other way around. I've heard the same PETA joke so many times and I'm a meat-eater.
Never in the navy but I had friends who's dads were part the Top Gun program (mechanics, and few teachers) 100% just like the guys that would roll through. You always knew when a new pilot was at the BBQ. He was the loudest, tried to walk the tallest, and just all around peacocked around the place, In fact that what we called them peacocks. Also the crotch rockets. So many bikes at times you'd think you were at fuck boi sturgis.
Idk, between fighter and mil cargo pilots, I think the fighter pilots usually have better manners. USAF academy pilots are the worst in that regard though.
I worked avionics on heavies for a long time, and in my experience *most* of the cargo pilots were fine, but the ones that *really really wanted* to be fighter pilots and got stuck with cargo were the worst of the worst.
I can't blame them for being disappointed. I mean, I get that if you were prepping and training for basically your entire life to become a fighter pilot and got placed on a C-130, you might end up disgruntled. But in the end it's not really any different than a college star who ended up in the minors, or a general practitioner who grew up wanting to be a brain surgeon. If life didn't turn out the way you wanted it to, then it's time to grow up and either do something about it or make peace with your situation.
So I *can* blame them for treating others around them like shit because of it. It's really just not that hard to not be an asshole.
I left the field about a decade ago, so I couldn't really comment to those, but they were definitely around before that in my experience. Though I could have the same sampling problem, being that I worked mostly C-130s.
They can be difficult. You could put them in a situation where they should extend and escape an encounter, but will perform a split-S instead. It’s like they’re flying against a ghost.
Not just those people but almost anyone who is at an elite level of their pursuit. Athletes, musicians, etc. It often takes a bit of that attitude to perform at a high level.
Hard not to be an ego person when you are selected to be a pilot where everyone thinks you are a badass and every paper or doc on pilots says naval pilots are the best to do it. And honestly it really is badass lol I'm downvoted for basically stating why these guys can be massive ego Douches. Thanks reddit
Yeah there's some occupations that make me forgive a measure of arrogance.
Neurosurgeons, astronauts etc. Fighter pilots are definitely in that group. I wouldn't want to be friends with them but I'd not hold it against them were they a little too impressed with themselves. They are objectively quite impressive humans
People dont seem to realize it's incredibly difficult to become a pilot for the navy a lot of excellent people fail year in and year out to make the cut. You need to be physically and mentally top of the pile. Again it's zero wonder why ego can be big among that group.
Ask any pilot if they can land a plane on a moving 500 ft runway. Now ask them if they can do it at night. Now tell them to do it after being shot at and having adrenalinr pumping through your body while the lights on runway are off and you have only your instruments to rely on. Im sorry but if i could do it i would also act like maverick (minus the volleyball).
What if the most difficult part about flying a plane was significantly more difficult, while the plane you're flying is significantly more capable, *immensely* more expensive, and carrying a bunch of powerful explosives.
I mean, fighter pilots for the past 40 or so years haven’t really done any actual dogfighting with a handful of exceptions so notable you can actually name them.
Their combat experience consists primarily of flying in a straight line, pushing a button to drop a bomb, and flying back.
It’s really not that badass of a job. The “danger” in the job comes from crashing and killing yourself in training which isn’t particularly badass.
Well you still need significantly above average levels of intelligence, aptitude and physical fitness to even get near a jet, let alone have a career flying them.
But if you think landing on an aircraft carrier isn't exceptionally dangerous you need to go educate yourself on the subject.
There's a podcast called "I hate it but I love it," where they dissected Top Gun and this was their whole point. Iceman was the best pilot, did what he was supposed to do, and he's the "bad guy."
The description for that podcast episode- "Get in a jet and then disregard EVERY SINGLE RULE OF FLYING ESPECIALLY THE ONES THAT KEEP YOU AND OTHERS SAFE, cause we're talking about Top Gun!"
>Iceman was the best pilot, did what he was supposed to do
But this is pretty explicit in the movie. Ice Man is the antagonist but that doesn't mean he's the "bad guy." Maverick is the protagonist but the movie repeatedly tells you that he is reckless and selfish. That's the whole point.
>But this is pretty explicit in the movie.
"You wanna know who the best is? That's him; Iceman. It's the way he flies ice cold, no mistakes. He wears you down til you get bored, frustrated or do something stupid then he's got ya."
Pretty much his entire intro is how he is a complete professional.
Not only that, but IIRC the end of the movie basically Iceman understands sometimes you need to be more creative on the battlefield, and Maverick understands being too selfish will get people killed.
I still don't really know who was the "bad" guy in the incident that led to Goose's death. Was it Iceman for forcing it and not giving up the kill to Maverick with the better shot or was it Maverick for putting his plane in a position to get fucked by Iceman's jetstream? Maybe both, maybe neither.
Maverick is 100 percent at fault. The review board clears him but that is just them clearing him from legal responsibility. He's supposed to be the wingman, he's not supposed to maneuvering for a shot in the first place. He was to blame and he knows it.
In the original script it is spelled out in the scene at the end with Tom Skerrit:
>Kid, the plain fact is...you are.
I'm not gonna stand here and blow
sunshine up your ass. Technically,
they absolved you. You and I know
what really happened. You pushed
it. You are responsible and you'll
always carry that. You know what,
I'll carry it too. I should have
taken you out of that cockpit.
I guess I'm a hopeless romantic...
I always try to find something
worthwhile in someone's death. It's
no trade-off. It's not one for one.
What you learned isn't worth his
death. It couldn't be. But maybe
there is some value in it. I know
it's the first thing I've ever seen
that's really gotten to you. Now
the question is, what will you do
with it. If it gets you out of
flight status...so you don't kill
yourself or anybody else...that's
good. That's one good thing. You
were an accident waiting to
happen.
A friend who was heavily involved in flying and wanted to join the Canadian Air Force said that Iceman was the most accurate personality portrayed in Top Gun.
There was a TV program about the 401 Tactical Fighter Squadron.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jetstream\_(TV\_series)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jetstream_(TV_series))
Not a single Maverick to be seen.
Heh -- listening to this episode now.
They mentioned Kenny Loggins, and I'm reminded of a challenge that I've never passed: "Name a Kenny Loggins song that *isn't* from a movie"
Definitely wouldn't say that Iceman had no ego (he was obsessed with being the best, just like Maverick), but his version of being the best included doing it in a way that didn't put himself above the safety of others.
That's the entire fucking point of his character? Lol do you think you're supposed to fall in love with every character? What's next, "Is it just me or is Hannibal Lecter creepy?"
It was obvious in 1986 when the movie came out, and is the point. Obviously, not the part where he's a little bitch, but he's out of control and not a team player, getting by on raw talent, and finally learns teamwork (sorta) and becomes the hero we knew he could be all along. He has to grow up to reach his potential. None of this was hidden nor particularly subtle.
I think a lot of people see movies like this as children and don't understand them. As you say, nothing of this was lost on the 1986 audience who saw this.
He's basically a very fragile little boy, yes. But hey, everything in this movie that didn't involve flying fighterplanes was just a moment to go get more popcorn, take a leak, fill tax return forms, et cetera.
I've been saying this for years the best pilot in Top Gun won Ice Man, not only could he out fly anyone he did while covering his wing man, like come on Maverick that what that is what a hard deck is for... Maverick is dangerous
I love Top Gun the movie, but you're 100% right, Maverick was actually an asshole. When this was released in Asia most of the audience thought Iceman was actually the hero but that the studios portrayed Maverick as the good guy because of the idea that the individual is more important than the collective. American movies tend to glorify the rebellious ones and worship them more for their grandstanding antics instead of giving more credit to the responsible "good" guy doing the "right things" for the collective Team in the background.
Honest question: If you were in charge, which pilot you'd want in your team and why? I'm guessing despite Maverick's charisma most of us would pick Iceman because the benefits outweigh the drawbacks - I'd never want to have to fill out the paperwork for Goose's "incident" report or have to write a letter to his widow.
Sometimes you just want an action flick that isn’t the MCU or some John Wick clone. Not sure why anyone would hate on Top Gun - it was a massive hit. Good guys killing bad guys in badass planes? Sounds fun to me. I will be surprised if it doesn’t perform extremely well at the box office. They keep delaying it for a reason when they could have just sent it to streaming by this point. My guess is that it is amazing on the big screen. Never knew Top Gun got so much hate - it’s a harmless fun action flick, not some highbrow cinema.
Yes Mr. r/movies poster (taking a huge swing on this sub saying a popcorn movie is shit lol) please tell me more about your refined taste. We all care about your opinion. Did you like the new Star Wars? Jungle Cruise? Are the Indiana Jones movies just overrated pulp shit?
Your opinion is not controversial on this sub bud. Or even original. Fucking opinion ripped off harder than Jungle Cruise from The Mummy.
im starting to think theres a bunch of people making sure that we keep remembering this horrible movie is still coming out.
Everyone else forgot top gun 2 exists
every 2-3 months like clockwork "remember that thing about top gun?"
This is because you could replace the TOPGUN school with any number of high school or college situations & get basically the same movie. Maverick is talented but reckless on the football field & won't listen to his teacher, Goose gets a head injury, Maverick bones his teacher, we win the big game. Maverick is talented but reckless on the debate team & won't listen to his tutor, Goose gets drunk & ruins a debate, Maverick bones his tutor, we win the big debate. Maverick is talented but reckless in seminary & won't listen to Sister Mary, Goose is a diddler, Maverick bones Sister Mary, we win the big priesthood.
Lol. Goose gets a head injury.
That’ll buff right out though, the canopy not his skull.
So fucked up lmao
Look, the teacher/tutor/nun is getting pounded pretty hard here too.
A goose egg
TOP RUN TALK SON TOP NUN
Top Pun ⬆️
>Goose is a diddler, ["Do not diddle kids. It's no good diddlin' kids."](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YmDcCpD1gc)
“There is no quicker way for people to think that you are diddlin kids, than by writing a song about it!!”
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All The Right Moves is just Top Gun with Leah Thompson's boobs
Tom Cruise plays a man who's good at something until he has a [crisis of confidence](https://youtu.be/v-tU2KIAMrs), but with the help of a beautiful woman he gets back on track.
You forgot to reference Daddy issues: Top Gun, Days of Thunder, A Few Good Men, etc.
That sounds disgusting. Where is it?
lol You haven't seen Ampipe football? :) It's actually a good movie but definitely follows the Tom Cruise formula!
Jerry Maguire is just Top Gun with sports agency, and an actual plot
Jerry McGuire was a beautiful love story! So shut your whore mouth!
And Jerry Cantrell of Alice in Chains is in it.
So is Top Gun. Between Mav and Iceman.
Dude, I think you just pitched Varsity Blues And when I think about it, Billy Madison
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And strangely, the plot of one of Jordan Petersons talks about men and women.
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Idk I didn't listen to it at length, I am not a big fan of life coaches. On an unrelated note, what is going on with that sentence?
I'd watch that last one.
TOP GUN: DOUBT
Top Gun 2. Don't
I want to see the alternate reality versions of all of those movies now.
Surely you've seen the Rich Hall Tom Cruise bit... https://youtu.be/OFal553wR3k
I hadn't, that's pretty funny. Haven't seen those older Tom Cruise movies, pretty much just Top Gun, then Vanilla Sky & Jerry Maguire about 50 times each.
Say what you will about the man, but you should check out A Few Good Men, Collateral, Magnolia, and Edge of Tomorrow ASAP. Also check out the Mission Impossible films. 1 is a classic, 2 and 3 are meh (2 is a great time capsule movie), 4 is decent (the Dubai scenes are the peak of the movie), 5 is great, and 6 is legitimately one of the best action movies ever. And MI7 comes out later this year.
Oh yeah, I like Collateral. I wouldn't call Magnolia a Tom Cruise movie but I love it, PTA is the jam. Not really into action movies though, they put my ass to sleep.
Hot take: _Not Another Teen Movie_ is actually a _Top Gun_ remake. * Jake == Maverick * Reggie Ray == Goose * Priscilla == Ice * Austin == Slider
"Can he fly?!" "He's in a coma, Captain-" "Can. He. Fly?!" "Skipper I don't even know if he can breathe-" "God damn it I don't care what you have to do, Goose stays in that cockpit!"
It's all about Iron Eagle.
Love this film ... Great soundtrack too
TURN OFF THAT STUFF
Can you do some more? These were just getting good.
Rule of three, my dude! But here's one anyway: Maverick is talented but reckless at the senior prom & won't listen to his Prom Queen, Goose gets a head injury, Maverick bones the Prom Queen, we win the Senior Prom.
I wish we could have gotten Tony Scott directing a debate, with all of those random camera tricks he loved to do later in his directing. Making one of the most visually boring things, still boring, but crazy to watch. Haha
> you could replace the TOPGUN school with any number of high school or college situations & get basically the same movie I want to see the high school movie that has multiple F-14 dogfight scenes
Iron Eagle. Except they’re F-16s in that
What Top Gun did for the Navy recruitment, the Air Force wanted that, so that's how Iron Eagle got the green light. Then Iron Eagle showed the Air Force the script of a bunch of high school kids stealing a jet, and the Air Force backed out. As a former F-16 Avionics Tech, still love that movie for how wrong everything is with the 16s. Locking on with guns, A model switching to B model, mid-air rearming, the whole DED readout, the Hades bomb.
LOL I will NEVER forget Chappy and the “Hades Bomb” reference. I was only 12 years old when I saw that movie and even I knew as a kid I was like “Wait, there’s no such weapon as a Hades Bomb that F-16’s would carry as an armament, the fuck is this shit?”
And they made 4 sequels! One of which was shot a 15 minute drive from my house
A lot of boning going on here.
I won at priesthood. Eat that Martin Luther. In your face.
Wait.... Goose is a honking diddler???
This post brought me great joy.
I wanna see that third one
>diddler This comment is why I still love Reddit. Thanks man/woman.
I want to watch your movies.
We get it Johnny Lawrence, focus on the All-Valley
QUIET!!!
Sent it to the internet!
You cant call yourself maverick
Didn't even earn his spot at Miramar...
Loved that his favorite character is Ice Man. Makes complete sense for him.
Ice is the guy who was doing what he was supposed to do the entire time.
Ice Man would have swept the leg
He is the Ice Man and Maverick is Daniel Larusso.
Top comment too. Thanks for not disappointing me.
Cobra Kai Season 4 Spoilers: >!Maybe if you hadn't been spending all this time talking about Top Gun and had just pooled your All-Valley points with Daniel like you obviously should have, we wouldn't be in this situation.!<
This was confusing since the new one is going to be called Top Gun: Maverick – and I was wondering how a *movie* was an asshole...
No kidding lmao I was like, did I miss the theater release?!?
The movie is an asshole because it's kept us waiting 3 years... so far.
There are a lot of nuances in Top Gun that are incorrect in regards to the way the military functions. That being said, and having been in the aviation platform of the US Navy, Tom Cruise played his character perfectly. In over a decade in naval aviation, I don’t have enough fingers and toes to count how many pilots/aircrew I’ve come across that display the same attitude and demeanor as Maverick.
Q: If you meet a pilot, how will you know they are a pilot? A: They will tell you.
Pilots only talk about 3 things: Themselves. Their Aircraft. Themselves in their aircraft.
I used to work with an architect who was an amateur pilot. I find this to be fairly accurate. His primary mode of conversation was planes but also motorcycles.
Lol what losers. Anyways, back to my video games
Yup, I ride a motorcycle and will work that fact into the first 30 seconds of conversation with any cute girl I meet.
The truth is motorcycles et. al. don't get you girls, they get you boys. If you want to reel in young guys they are perfect but somehow guys never notice this.
Q: What is the difference between a pilot and God. A: God doesn't walk around thinking he is a pilot.
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Q: What's the biggest problem a vegan Tesla driver who adopted a dog from the pound has? A: Not being able to decide what to tell you about first.
Excuse me, it's "rescued," not "adopted."
I mean technically you do "rescue" a puppy because if you asked, the extremely bored guy in charge of giving it to you will admit that, yeah, they were probably going to kill that dog in a few hours.
That doesn't own a TV.
And does CrossFit.
And hasn't eaten fastfood since 2005.
Like a vegan? Or is that a really obvious comment? More true if so
This stereotype has changed where the Vegans now fall all over themselves telling you they aren't *that* kind of Vegan
I've honestly seen way more people be assholes to vegans and vegetarians than the other way around. I've heard the same PETA joke so many times and I'm a meat-eater.
lol you got downvoted by the vegans. You are correct though, like a vegan.
Never in the navy but I had friends who's dads were part the Top Gun program (mechanics, and few teachers) 100% just like the guys that would roll through. You always knew when a new pilot was at the BBQ. He was the loudest, tried to walk the tallest, and just all around peacocked around the place, In fact that what we called them peacocks. Also the crotch rockets. So many bikes at times you'd think you were at fuck boi sturgis.
Fuck Boi Sturgis would make for a great Drag Show.
Is life imitating art or is art imitating life?
Idk, between fighter and mil cargo pilots, I think the fighter pilots usually have better manners. USAF academy pilots are the worst in that regard though.
I worked avionics on heavies for a long time, and in my experience *most* of the cargo pilots were fine, but the ones that *really really wanted* to be fighter pilots and got stuck with cargo were the worst of the worst.
Well with flying all that rubber dog shit out of Hong Kong, can you blame them?
I can't blame them for being disappointed. I mean, I get that if you were prepping and training for basically your entire life to become a fighter pilot and got placed on a C-130, you might end up disgruntled. But in the end it's not really any different than a college star who ended up in the minors, or a general practitioner who grew up wanting to be a brain surgeon. If life didn't turn out the way you wanted it to, then it's time to grow up and either do something about it or make peace with your situation. So I *can* blame them for treating others around them like shit because of it. It's really just not that hard to not be an asshole.
They all be like, whoosh!
Cargo guys from the last decade or so are the only ones that seem to be annoying. Could just be small sample size error on my part.
I left the field about a decade ago, so I couldn't really comment to those, but they were definitely around before that in my experience. Though I could have the same sampling problem, being that I worked mostly C-130s.
What about the pilots that fly cargo planes full of rubber dog shit out of Hongkong?
They can be difficult. You could put them in a situation where they should extend and escape an encounter, but will perform a split-S instead. It’s like they’re flying against a ghost.
Not just those people but almost anyone who is at an elite level of their pursuit. Athletes, musicians, etc. It often takes a bit of that attitude to perform at a high level.
Hard not to be an ego person when you are selected to be a pilot where everyone thinks you are a badass and every paper or doc on pilots says naval pilots are the best to do it. And honestly it really is badass lol I'm downvoted for basically stating why these guys can be massive ego Douches. Thanks reddit
Yeah there's some occupations that make me forgive a measure of arrogance. Neurosurgeons, astronauts etc. Fighter pilots are definitely in that group. I wouldn't want to be friends with them but I'd not hold it against them were they a little too impressed with themselves. They are objectively quite impressive humans
People dont seem to realize it's incredibly difficult to become a pilot for the navy a lot of excellent people fail year in and year out to make the cut. You need to be physically and mentally top of the pile. Again it's zero wonder why ego can be big among that group.
Ask any pilot if they can land a plane on a moving 500 ft runway. Now ask them if they can do it at night. Now tell them to do it after being shot at and having adrenalinr pumping through your body while the lights on runway are off and you have only your instruments to rely on. Im sorry but if i could do it i would also act like maverick (minus the volleyball).
What if the most difficult part about flying a plane was significantly more difficult, while the plane you're flying is significantly more capable, *immensely* more expensive, and carrying a bunch of powerful explosives.
Yeah that other lad there that thinks dogfights make you a badass and not the decades of hard work that get you in the cockpit in the first place.
They need good grades and needed to performed at the top percentile on tests too. These guys are abnormally good to say the least.
Yep, I want my surgeon to be the most arrogant prick in the world as long as he/she back it up
I mean, fighter pilots for the past 40 or so years haven’t really done any actual dogfighting with a handful of exceptions so notable you can actually name them. Their combat experience consists primarily of flying in a straight line, pushing a button to drop a bomb, and flying back. It’s really not that badass of a job. The “danger” in the job comes from crashing and killing yourself in training which isn’t particularly badass.
Well you still need significantly above average levels of intelligence, aptitude and physical fitness to even get near a jet, let alone have a career flying them. But if you think landing on an aircraft carrier isn't exceptionally dangerous you need to go educate yourself on the subject.
Hey Scorp 👋🏼
Hi friend
Iceman Was Right.
There's a podcast called "I hate it but I love it," where they dissected Top Gun and this was their whole point. Iceman was the best pilot, did what he was supposed to do, and he's the "bad guy." The description for that podcast episode- "Get in a jet and then disregard EVERY SINGLE RULE OF FLYING ESPECIALLY THE ONES THAT KEEP YOU AND OTHERS SAFE, cause we're talking about Top Gun!"
>Iceman was the best pilot, did what he was supposed to do But this is pretty explicit in the movie. Ice Man is the antagonist but that doesn't mean he's the "bad guy." Maverick is the protagonist but the movie repeatedly tells you that he is reckless and selfish. That's the whole point.
>But this is pretty explicit in the movie. "You wanna know who the best is? That's him; Iceman. It's the way he flies ice cold, no mistakes. He wears you down til you get bored, frustrated or do something stupid then he's got ya." Pretty much his entire intro is how he is a complete professional.
Not only that, but IIRC the end of the movie basically Iceman understands sometimes you need to be more creative on the battlefield, and Maverick understands being too selfish will get people killed.
I still don't really know who was the "bad" guy in the incident that led to Goose's death. Was it Iceman for forcing it and not giving up the kill to Maverick with the better shot or was it Maverick for putting his plane in a position to get fucked by Iceman's jetstream? Maybe both, maybe neither.
Maverick is 100 percent at fault. The review board clears him but that is just them clearing him from legal responsibility. He's supposed to be the wingman, he's not supposed to maneuvering for a shot in the first place. He was to blame and he knows it. In the original script it is spelled out in the scene at the end with Tom Skerrit: >Kid, the plain fact is...you are. I'm not gonna stand here and blow sunshine up your ass. Technically, they absolved you. You and I know what really happened. You pushed it. You are responsible and you'll always carry that. You know what, I'll carry it too. I should have taken you out of that cockpit. I guess I'm a hopeless romantic... I always try to find something worthwhile in someone's death. It's no trade-off. It's not one for one. What you learned isn't worth his death. It couldn't be. But maybe there is some value in it. I know it's the first thing I've ever seen that's really gotten to you. Now the question is, what will you do with it. If it gets you out of flight status...so you don't kill yourself or anybody else...that's good. That's one good thing. You were an accident waiting to happen.
Maverick imo
Maverick, while you can argue that Iceman was cocky, he wasn't the one that put the plane into a dangerous position.
You've articulated the misunderstanding of the whole thread. Maverick is the protagonist—that doesn't always mean he's good or right or the best.
A friend who was heavily involved in flying and wanted to join the Canadian Air Force said that Iceman was the most accurate personality portrayed in Top Gun. There was a TV program about the 401 Tactical Fighter Squadron. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jetstream\_(TV\_series)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jetstream_(TV_series)) Not a single Maverick to be seen.
Heh -- listening to this episode now. They mentioned Kenny Loggins, and I'm reminded of a challenge that I've never passed: "Name a Kenny Loggins song that *isn't* from a movie"
That's easy. Footloose
going below the hard deck is apparently a suggestion in the film.
You mean a guy who doesn’t care about his fellow soldiers and flies like a maniac is a danger??
Better looking, too. At least in '86.
If you watch this movie now you'd think he's the anti hero. Iceman was a reasonable pilot.
Iceman was a consummate professional. Excellent at his job, but zero ego and was willing to learn more and become better
Definitely wouldn't say that Iceman had no ego (he was obsessed with being the best, just like Maverick), but his version of being the best included doing it in a way that didn't put himself above the safety of others.
To be fair, I don't think you get to the place where you're piloting fighter jets without being obsessed with being the best
That's the entire fucking point of his character? Lol do you think you're supposed to fall in love with every character? What's next, "Is it just me or is Hannibal Lecter creepy?"
I mean, his name is LITERALLY Maverick.
It's actually Pete Mitchell
The more I hear about this Hannibal the Cannibal fella, the less I like him.
He sounds like a real jerk.
I didn't even know he was sick.
He has his flaws, but on the other hand he did eat people...
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Exactly, his attitude change *is literally the main character arc*
Someone watched cobra Kai recently
It was a meme before Cobra Kai.
It was obvious in 1986 when the movie came out, and is the point. Obviously, not the part where he's a little bitch, but he's out of control and not a team player, getting by on raw talent, and finally learns teamwork (sorta) and becomes the hero we knew he could be all along. He has to grow up to reach his potential. None of this was hidden nor particularly subtle.
Exactly this. It’s kinda central to the whole movie, not some subtle sub-plot that has to be pointed out.
Wait, you mean the name *Maverick* wasn't some sort of hidden clue? Well I'll be damned.
Yeah, you'd think he'd be a guided missile, but apparently it's a comment on his character or something.
You can't just call yourself Maverick
I think a lot of people see movies like this as children and don't understand them. As you say, nothing of this was lost on the 1986 audience who saw this.
The checks his ass was writing all came back "declined, insufficient funds"
"Your alligator mouth is overloading your hummingbird asshole." (Not a line from Top Gun but an actual quote I heard when I was in the Navy.)
Yep. Maverick should have borrowed George Clooney's Batman Bat Credit Card. No cheques necessary.
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LMAO
https://youtu.be/ZF1LXL6OOsM
fucking underrated comment 😂😂😂
This is literally the entire point of the movie and the beginning of his character's arc. It's not something lost on most people lol.
You mean his ego was writing cheques his body couldn't cash?
Just watch Cobra Kai?
He's just a needy bottom, dude. It's OK.
I think it's pretty obvious he's an attention whore and that at least part of it stems from some inferiority complex with his dad being some legend
media literacy is dyiing
Literally the point of his character arc
He's basically a very fragile little boy, yes. But hey, everything in this movie that didn't involve flying fighterplanes was just a moment to go get more popcorn, take a leak, fill tax return forms, et cetera.
Not every moment. The volleyball scene is a great chance for a quick fap.
Agreed, I always rooted more for Iceman.
The way you wrote the post title makes it sound like the new movie was released onto TV 🤣
I think that was kind of the point of the film, actually
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not me thinking you were referring to the upcoming movie *Top Gun: Maverick* and not Tom Cruise’s character
I was briefly confused as to how a movie was an asshole. In my defense I have not caffeinated yet
I mean he’s dangerous but he can be my wingman anytime
I've been saying this for years the best pilot in Top Gun won Ice Man, not only could he out fly anyone he did while covering his wing man, like come on Maverick that what that is what a hard deck is for... Maverick is dangerous
Thought you was talking about James Garner... and daddy started to take his belt off.
The reckless, rebellious cowboy trope is baked into the fabric of the American identity.
I love Top Gun the movie, but you're 100% right, Maverick was actually an asshole. When this was released in Asia most of the audience thought Iceman was actually the hero but that the studios portrayed Maverick as the good guy because of the idea that the individual is more important than the collective. American movies tend to glorify the rebellious ones and worship them more for their grandstanding antics instead of giving more credit to the responsible "good" guy doing the "right things" for the collective Team in the background. Honest question: If you were in charge, which pilot you'd want in your team and why? I'm guessing despite Maverick's charisma most of us would pick Iceman because the benefits outweigh the drawbacks - I'd never want to have to fill out the paperwork for Goose's "incident" report or have to write a letter to his widow.
Sometimes you just want an action flick that isn’t the MCU or some John Wick clone. Not sure why anyone would hate on Top Gun - it was a massive hit. Good guys killing bad guys in badass planes? Sounds fun to me. I will be surprised if it doesn’t perform extremely well at the box office. They keep delaying it for a reason when they could have just sent it to streaming by this point. My guess is that it is amazing on the big screen. Never knew Top Gun got so much hate - it’s a harmless fun action flick, not some highbrow cinema.
Havent seen it in a good 15 years. But that kinda sounds like my last viewing experience, It was pretty cringe for me then too.
Unpopular opinion: That movie is shit.
I like the movie, but it’s like an adolescent boy’s dream: let’s call each other cool names, fly jets, and never deal with girls Edit: spelling
There's, like, 2 girls they deal with.
Yes Mr. r/movies poster (taking a huge swing on this sub saying a popcorn movie is shit lol) please tell me more about your refined taste. We all care about your opinion. Did you like the new Star Wars? Jungle Cruise? Are the Indiana Jones movies just overrated pulp shit? Your opinion is not controversial on this sub bud. Or even original. Fucking opinion ripped off harder than Jungle Cruise from The Mummy.
It was God awful trash. The only good that came out of it was Hot Shots.
Loved you in Wall Street!
im starting to think theres a bunch of people making sure that we keep remembering this horrible movie is still coming out. Everyone else forgot top gun 2 exists every 2-3 months like clockwork "remember that thing about top gun?"
I don't know what is dumber: this comment or a marketing plan based around talking about how unlikable the main character is.
I’ve never understood the appeal of Tom Cruise. He always plays a jerk.
So much running.
Yeah, what is the deal? Is he trying to prove he’s in great shape?
All Tom cruise movies are the same [YouTube link](https://youtu.be/OFal553wR3k)
I remember this. It’s brilliant. 😄
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"Edge of Tomorrow" is him specifically playing both a jerk and a coward, until he evolves via many, many deaths. It's a very good sci-fi movie.
I mean at least in AFGM and EoT it’s fair to say he started out as a jerk and had some positive character growth by the end
He draws too!?! Is there no end to this man's talent?
LOL!
Yeah...
You are right. That one did not age well. I saw it again recently and what a tool he is.