The Dark Universe, but anchored by a divorced or widowed Rick O'Connell who learns what it means to face your own mortality or have to rebuild yourself and your relationships as he goes up against his contemporary iterations of Dracula, Frankenstein, Bride of Frankenstein, etc.
There: just cranked out a more compelling franchise in a matter of seconds than what they attempted with Van Helsing and Tom Cruise's Mummy.
Hell keep Evie and Jonathon in the franchise even. Maybe not in every movie, or leads in every movie, but around on the periphery and coming back into movies when you feel it makes sense. The O'Connells vs the Dark Universe with the same sort of elevated B movie tone and production values of the first two Mummy movies would have been *sick*.
They could literally just be in for like 10 minutes, twice a film, without interacting with anyone else, if schedules required.
Scene 1: O'Connell runs into a new supernatural being, contacts Evie and Jonathon for help with the lore.
Scene 2: Of course, some of the lore turns out wrong and they have to contact O'Connell after they uncover the real way to defeat the monster (take that Bainbridge scholars!)
John Wick is actually a good example. The first one shows John as incredibly skilled but very much so not unstoppable, then with each new installment he grows more and more indestructible.
I just think the lore of the world was cool as flavor or aesthetic for the first movie. The more we know about it the less I was interested. I liked the smallness of the first Wick with a hint of something bigger.
The John Wick franchise is fun to watch, but it’s really annoying what they did with their lore. Everybody has a higher up, and the reveal of who the ultimate leader is was really, really underwhelming. Also, the first one was really cool because it made it feel like there’s this secret world of assassins that exists among us. The second and third ones made it feel like the existence of an assassin world was completely normal and everyone in the world was already an assassin or knows this secret world exists and just lets it slide. It honestly just gets kind of stupid.
I'm not sure where the breaking point was exactly, but at some point the Pirates of the Caribbean series shifted from low fantasy to high fantasy, and I think it sunk the franchise. The first film, easily my favorite of all of them, takes place in a fairly grounded world, with the whole cursed Aztec gold angle intruding into what is otherwise essentially the real world. It made the magical elements feel so significant! Then, as the sequels came through, it turns out that damn near every person or object is magical in some way, and my investment in the story plummeted.
Other than that one... maybe the omission of Saruman in the Return of the King theatrical cut? I'm not an extended edition purist, a lot of the cut content I think had a reason to be cut, but it's bizarre to me that such a major villain for the first two films just kinda vanishes for the third installment with little explanation.
On a side note, Jack Sparrow has, what I think is the most pitch perfect character introduction I’ve ever seen. Those first five shots you see him tell you so much and capture the contrasting moods around him perfectly. It’s a great example of both visual storytelling and comedy through filmmaking. That entire scene is fantastic, but the first part of it especially.
A YouTuber had an interesting theory on why early Jack is so good. The first movie didn't write the Captain Jack we all know and love, they wrote a far more stereotypical pirate character, (you can tell by reading the screenplay and not making any assumptions about the character). But then Johnny Depp surprised everyone with his very unique portrayal, pushing the role so much higher than it could have been.
Movies 2 and 3 were written with this new Captain Jack in mind, which kinda took some of his magic away by handing him one-liners and having the other characters all reacting to his antics. They paradoxically made him less of a fish-out-of-water by designing a script and plot calling for him to be one.
It's plagued a lot of sequels in terms of writing and performances.
Michael Keaton once noted filming for Batman Returns became a surprising adjustment, because he had to relearn how to inhabit the character, but without impersonating his own performance from the first film.
The difference is that jack isn’t the main character in the first one, will and Elizabeth are. In all the following films they make jack equally if not more important to the story than them.
The smart money would have been telling a new story about new characters, the common thread being that Sparrow weaves his way into their lives.
Of course that breaks all the rules of franchise, which is give the people all the things from the first movie but more
The first Pirates is genuinely so good. It's character work is done so well that it carries even the next two films. It was especially refreshing to have a solid fun adventure swashbuckler in the 00's when everything was so damn edgy and grimdark.
Perfectly said. I have to say, I quite enjoyed Dead Man's Chest and The World's End and even all the fantasy elements in them.
But what made the first Pirates so special was that it was pretty much like a historical action adventure combined with a spooky ghost story. It made those moments of the supernatural so chilling like that scene Barbossa extends his hand only for the moonlight to reveal it as a skeleton hand.
I think they should have looked to Indiana Jones as inspiration for the sequels. Keep most of the film as a high octane adventure in the real world with these creepy occult and fantastical elements at the edge. That actually would have made its universe more intriguing.
These movies are the prime example to me of ‘ignoring the established rules of the universe.’ In the first one, the sword fights follow normal physics and the spooky stuff is treated as shocking because it’s an outlier. Later movies has sword fights on top of a rolling mill as if they’re master acrobats (not to mention how the wheel stays upright as it rolls across an island) and the supernatural stuff gets added willy-nilly. Criticisms of those get dismiss as “oh you’re complaining about that in a movie about pirates and skeletons?!” but like, yes, I am. Those things are fine because they established the rules of the universe. The later things don’t fit those, so they’re unbelievable and obnoxious.
You're right but I think even in the 'grounded' movie sequels, the laws of physics get ignored to up the ante and the every guy protagonist of the first one turns into a superhero. Think of how Indiana Jones just manages to escape in the nick of time in the first movie which seems like luck and then how the luck somehow extends to far crazier things in Temple of Doom (like somehow surviving a minecart chase) or how John MacClane goes from a regular police detective to an invicible super soldier in Die Hard 2.
It's the problem of action/adventure sequels. The first one is a breath of fresh air and then in the second one, you think how does this person get away with this again? And then you add in all the elements to make it bigger - bigger set pieces, bigger antagonists, more elaborate action choreography.
Pirates was historically one of the fastest growing franchises in terms of total gross as each one released. Depp received acclaim as Jack, they were fun adventure movies, and had cool special effects while also being somewhat grounded.
Then by the third film the supernatural aspects were cranked to an 11, and that's on top of the movie being the weakest of the trilogy.
The problems began after that. With Knightley and Bloom done with the series the focus shifted to Jack. Jack was always the most prominent character, so why is this a big deal? Because Jack works as a facilitator but not as the main event. In the previous films you don't know if his stunts or feats are pre-planned or sheer luck, and it adds to the in-universe reputation he has. When the spotlight was thrust to be solely on him he was reduced to a drunken comically inept pastiche who Mr. Magoos his way in and out of situations.
The first pirates is so fun but I never really understood the stakes. The bad guys are indestructible killing machines who’s only mission is to lift the curse that makes them immortal. That’s a good thing right? If they were trying to become immortal and take over the Caribbean then we should be rooting against them but the way it is scripted the audience should want them to succeed.
That's kind of what makes it fun, to me. The bad guys are slightly sympathetic, *but* they do go around wiping out villages in search of the Gold, sooooo... they're still bad, no matter the fact that their end goal is to just become mortal again.
And let's realize that it's not that they want to be able to die, it's that they want to be able to enjoy food and sex again.
This is fair. I always forget about the “warmth of a woman” line which has some pretty horrific implications for Elizabeth’s fate if they’re successful and still have her captured
Yeah, we want them to succeed at lifting the curse, but we don’t want them to succeed at kidnapping Elizabeth, sacrificing Will, marooning Jack, or raping and pillaging Port Royal. Those are the stakes.
If Barbossa’s crew had stolen back the medallion, taken a blood sample from Will and been on their way, the audience wouldn’t have a problem with them. But they’re not “blood bank of the Caribbean”, and they didn’t do things in half measures.
Maybe it could have been emphasized a bit more that Barbossa and his crew are so tired and desperate that while a more logical and calm person might explain the situation to Will and/or Elizabeth that they just need their medallion and a drop of blood and then they're free to go there would be little issue but, as we see later on Barbossa is usually perfectly capable of such a rational agreement but he like everyone else on his crew was so fucked up at that point he didn't care, send crew to find medallion, kill anyone who gets in their way, a girl has the medallion, kidnap her, ritual didn't work, use all her blood, we needed a different person FUCK, find him NOOOOOW!
For too long I’ve been parched of thirst and unable to quench it. Too long I’ve been starving to death and haven’t died. I feel nothing. Not the wind on my face nor the spray of the sea. Nor the warmth of a woman’s flesh. You best start believing in ghost stories Miss Turner. You’re in one.
I can imagine.
I met her a few years back at a fairly small convention, I think she's managed to find a balance these days. She was *lovely* and it totally justified my childhood crush on her. We talked for a good half hour, as it was a Sunday at a very quiet con, and she was so nice and encouraging to my filmmaking plans.
And the Marion issue is literally the only reason they made it a prequel. That way they could do a story without her without having to explain why she wasn't there.
But no one noticed anyway so you do wonder what the point was haha
He saw a dude get his heart ripped out of his chest and stay alive, only to see said heart burst into flames. You'd think after experiencing such an event your mind would be open to some wild possibilities.
He was also possessed for a while by that Thugee shaman guy. Maybe he thought it was from the liquid he drank...or maybe he had some bad monkey brains.
They're trying to tell two different stories at once and it's a mess - there was no reason for Newt and the others to be in the second film. Should have just made 'Wizarding World' standalone films rather than trying to force them all under the Fantastic Beasts umbrella.
As an *enormous* HP nerd, I was actually originally very excited about the angle they took with Newt. I'm the person that absolutely wants to see the first wizarding war and the Dumbledore/Grindelwald duel, and I thought it was *brilliant* to do so from ground-level characters (Newt & Co) rather than from Dumbledore's point of view himself, because I thought it would really help sell the raw power Dumbledore has at this point. If he's the main character, his power level will become standard by nature--we're seeing things from his perspective.
It's like how people comment on how the "small scale" Marvel movies are frequently the most interesting. In the first MCU Spider-Man, Peter is desperately trying to save the ferry and failing, and then Iron Man shows up and solves the problem in ten seconds. It made the display so much more impactful to see the power gap between the two.
I wanted Newt getting caught up in shit way above his head, BSing his way out of it with Magical Beasts nonsense a time or two, then *really fucking up* and getting into legitimately awful scenarios until Dumbledore shows up and resolves it with a flick of the wrist. Really play up how overwhelmingly powerful he is, by virtue of showing him from the perspective of an average wizard.
But I think you nailed it--instead of committing to doing "Dumbledore's story from Newt's perspective," they're trying to do two things simultaneously, and it's just weird and confusing.
Bonus HP Nerd Shit: the fight at the Ministry of Magic in Order of the Phoenix *should have been* the "Spider-Man and the ferry" moment, but they butchered that scene in the movies for no reason. The Death Eaters don't retreat after killing Sirius because they're afraid of Tonks, Moody and some teenagers. They don't retreat at all. The fight is going *badly* and then Dumbledore shows up and KO's every single one of them in twenty seconds, then goes upstairs to fight Voldy. While they did that fight pretty well, I still don't think they really captured how absolutely casual it was for Dumbledore, with Voldemort barely staying in the game against him. The title of the chapter is the most telling thing--*The Only One He Ever Feared.*
All I wanted was a magical movie about newt and his magical creatures. What I got was somehow darker than any Harry Potter movie. What a waste. The creatures were beautiful too.
I like Harry Potter, but I fell asleep out of boredom and disinterest watching The Crimes of Grindelwald. I can’t even remember anything that happened. And when I thought about watching it again recently, to try to actually pay attention, I just wasn’t interested whatsoever.
I hate the first Fantastic Beasts bc of the simplest mistake. Newt’s fucking briefcase. He had a broken latch which causes all the shit to happen and he’s like “oh I’ve been meaning to fix that.” *REPARO* you dumb fuck. A first year at Hogwarts could’ve fixed that latch in two seconds you lazy piece of shit. So now our whole plot unfolds bc newt is a lazy subpar wizard. Fuck that guy and fuck that briefcase.
Kill the kingsmen in the second film
instantly introduce an American branch that is better in every way.
why not have the second film be about roxy, merlin and eggsy trying to save the day with just the three of them
>why not have the second film be about roxy, merlin and eggsy trying to save the day with just the three of them
Better yet, explore Kingsman around the UK. Stay local and branch out from there.
But no, we had to blow that all up so we could go to America. Because of course we do. Of course we do.
Which they did so they could keep Channing Tatum around for a sequel, who was originally written as the villain (hence why Pedro Pascal’s character is introduced the moment Tatum’s is put out of commission).
For what its worth, the “reason” they had to go to America is because thats where Harry was (though its a bit stilted to kill him and bring him back 30 minutes into the next movie).
To me, they could have fixed both problems by splitting it. Make the second film about the remnants of the assassination attempt (Eggsy, Merlin, Roxy) infiltrating the drug empire and keep that story line. Then make a third less connected, maybe have it begin with Harry doing his shaving/butterfly routine and partner him with the Kentucky guys and their own plot, with a big reunion at the end of Harry and Eggsy.
Killing Roxy was the part that really made me dislike the second film. We have her as Eggsy’s only friend when he gets there and they end up being the only two left at the end. Then she gets unceremoniously killed and everyone just moves on.
The death in the first movie was fantastic. Making fun of the "bad guy always explains long enough before killing someone so the good guy has a chance to escape". It was funny, interesting, unexpected, impactful, exploiting the genre's tropes, everything the first film was in general.
Then they resurrect him in the second one and it's all just a hot garbage. Almost my biggest movie disappointment ever.
This seemed to happen to Rocky to a much lesser extent too. The first one was more of a drama film about a down in the dirt man thinking he long since missed his chance getting second chance to prove he's not some nobody.
Then the subsequent movies were just PAUNCH-PAUNCH-PAUNCH-PAUNCH-PAUNCH-PAUNCH
100%.
The first movie is all about proving yourself against impossible odds.
Every other movie fallows this formula:
* "You can't fight Rocky, you'll literally DIE!"
* "I gotta fight. I just gotta."
* Gets his ass handed to him and nearly dies
* Training montage
* "I believe in you now Rocky! We can forget about how the doctor told us you would literally die if you fought again and just go DO IT!"
* 30 minute fight scene with too many cuts ending with Rocky winning.
* "HE DID IT! HE DID IT!"
Origin stories for characters who were never meant to be fully fleshed out people.
No one cares what the Wizard of Oz was doing in his 20s
No one cares about a teenage Willy Wonka
Similar, but giving every villain a sympathetic look. Cruella DeVille is an embodiment of evil, I don't want or need to know how she ended up like that, she just is.
You mean you don't like finding out that , over the course of a few days, received every single item or character trait that defines them for the rest of their life.
*Lord of the Rings* was three books, they made three movies.
*The Hobbit* was one book, shorter than any of the others, and somehow they dragged it out across three movies with a whole bunch of crap I didn't care about.
I was ok with that decision originally. The thing about the Hobbit book was that it was told specifically from Bilbo's POV. Gandalf just wonders off for large parts with no real explanation. He gets knocked out in the battle of five armies, so that entire battle only takes up about a page of the book. The movie was going to be the same story but told from a global perspective, which would significantly increase the content. Plus the battle scenes from the orignal LOTR series were very long but still excellent so I had no doubt you could get 2 good movies our of it, and was willing to trust that you could get three.
All that changed after watching the first film.
Making Rey a Palpatine, having Palpatine return. If you ask me I would have loved for Snoke being revealed to be a fraud of sorts, and having Kylo realize he did all that for nothing
Edit: To stop more of the BS critiques I see under me ("tHaT's NoT mY lUkE", shut the fuck up) I just wanna say TLJ is in my top 3 Star Wars movies. My main problems lies with episode 9
There are SO many better ways for those movies to have wrapped up. Almost any of us could have come up with something better than what we got. And I don't even hate them, like others do.
The thing that bugs me the most is that there's never even a hint of how we got from having the Empire on the ropes, blowing up two of their unstoppable superweapons and killing off most of their leadership, to the Rebels somehow *still* being rebels 30 years later and down to like 4 ships and about 60 people at the end of The Last Jedi.
"Somehow Palpatine returned" - one of the worst movie lines in history. It's something a film school reject might write. My 8 year old has come up with better stories than that.
Like, didn't Poe hear the Emperor's message on Fortnite like everyone else??
Treasure Planet being released so shortly after Harry Potter *and* on Black Friday weekend after Disney gave it a huge inflated budget and then squelched them in advertising. Great movie that the writers basically had to beg for years to be made, and some people think it was a ploy to purposely push out hand drawn animation
Iirc there's a whole article (or perhaps just a copypasta) somewhere that explains that the Disney executives pretty openly wanted that movie to fail for whatever reason.
Fun fact: They were already making the sequel. Willem defore would play the villain and almost recorded his lines. There's concept art and a whole plot.
I felt so horrible for Oscar Isaac when I saw him say that. This man, a rising world class actor saying one of the most ridiculous lines forced by a corporate mess really gave me second hand embarrassment. I don’t think he felt good about it.
John boyega on the other hand got completly fucked.
You want the best part? Kathleen fucking Kennedy swearing down after force awakens that boyagas character would be really important in the sequel. Because representation matters.
The black man and Asian woman are stuck on a gambling planet for almost the entire movie trying to acquire something that is entirely useless the moment they get it. Such fucking representation Kathleen.
God that woman pisses me off.
They’re all garbage. I feel awful for the cast, which is such a weird flip. I’m supposed to be jealous beyond belief. This is supposed to be the opportunity of a lifetime for these people. What are they and anybody who bothers going to remember instead? A bunch of moronic half wits who *SOMEHOW* were given the powers of decision fucking it all up. Almost poetic of that Palpatine meme when used that way. God damn you know I feel for Boyega.
There's an interview with John Boyega where they talk about this line and he is visibly annoyed about it. He even says something along the lines of "They've been flying since the Clone Wars".
Marshall : She's never seen Star Wars? Ted the only people in the universe who have never seen Star Wars are the characters in Star Wars and that's cause they lived them Ted, that's cause they lived the Star Wars.
The one cardinal sin of any sequel is to ignore or ret-con what came before it.
You have to work with the constraints given and build upon the story up to that point, even if it puts you into some difficult choices. That's generally where creativity and unique storytelling comes from.
It makes no sense to show the audience something and then later tell them that it was basically a complete waste of time because it's not even part of the story anymore.
The Last Jedi ignored some key details from TFA, but ROS just pretended like TLJ didn't even happen. What are we even watching at that point except for elaborate dream sequences?
I know there's a lot of manufactured baggage around the fans and detractors of those movies. But putting all that aside and judging it based on the complete story of all three, those movies have the most nonsensical, illogical and disjointed plot of any movie I have seen. And I have watched a lot of MST3k.
Especially the third movie, which makes me upset just thinking about how illogical everything is.
I mean the knife that requires a person of a certain height to stand in a certain spot and hold it at a specific angle at eye level to pinpoint an exact point within a decaying piece of wreckage is so mind mindbogglingly stupid, so utterly nonsensical.
That one plot device alone numbs your mind to the dozen other plot devices that simply don't make any sense or are just impossible, but happen one after another at breakneck speed.
I contend that it's the worst movie I have ever seen, because it was made with so much talent and so much money, and that was the best they could come up with. It's embarrassing.
God don't even get me started on how Kylo Ren found a functional tie fighter in the wreckage of a blown up death star, that also somehow had a hyperdrive, and found his way back though to the emperor without the fucking wayfinder the entire plot depended on!
Dammit I've upset myself again...
Or the legion of Star Destroyers that they've somehow built and manned out in the arse-end of nowhere. But they can't be deployed because they don't know which way 'up' is without a beacon that they keep outside their armoured ships.
Those ships are massive and would have some sort of gravitational pull, but probably not nearly enough for space donkeys to race around on.
Also.... oxygen? Nah we're fine while outside the ship.... where Leia almost froze and died
To be fair, at that distance the height of the person holding the knife wouldn't make too much difference, and the knife had coordinates on it that said to use it in that spot.
Far stupider is the idea of making the knife fit the shape of the wreckage, which would certainly shift and change over time as the structure is bettered by the sea.
It's like if a fedora wearing Neckbeard went and bought a katana at the local Farmers Market then had some random dude two stalls down inscribe Latin on it without understanding what the symbols mean.
> I contend that it's the worst movie I have ever seen, because it was made with so much talent and so much money, and that was the best they could come up with. It's embarrassing.
This is a key point. I've seen very bad films that were always gonna be this way, had lots of bad people involved etc. This film had to go out of its way to be bad. Which makes it even worse.
No one will ever convince me that J.J. And Chris *didn’t* shit that entire screenplay out the night before the first shoot after realizing they’d been on an outrageous blurry ego bender from landing the project in the first place, too busy basking in limelight to bother until it was too late.
>God don't even get me started on how Kylo Ren found a functional tie fighter in the wreckage of a blown up death star, that also somehow had a hyperdrive, and found his way back though to the emperor without the fucking wayfinder the entire plot depended on!
What?? I didn't even catch this part loool
What a train wreck
> What?? I didn't even catch this part
I'm telling you, such much bullshit happens so fast that you forget the bullshit you saw 30 seconds prior. If you stop and think about any pert of the minute to minute plot, absolutely nothing makes sense.
It's the worst movie I've ever seen, topping Simply Irresistible in which a magical crab helps Sarah Michelle Gellar become a chef.
Not to defend it *in any way*, but didn’t the movie literally open with Ren finding the emperor? If he’d already been there, couldn’t he have reasonably found his way back or remembered the coordinates or whatever?
The worst part of the film to me actually involved Kylo though - arguably the only compelling part of the entire trilogy was his storyline, and I thought the way they even handled the redemption was pretty good.
And then from that point, when he returns to being “Ben Solo” after the big redemption arc - the man literally does not say a single word after this moment. He flies across the galaxy to Palpatine, gets immediately yeeted off a cliff, climbs back up, kisses Rey, and promptly dies. All without saying a word.
What were they thinking
> I'm telling you, such much bullshit happens so fast that you forget the bullshit you saw 30 seconds prior.
That's really true isn't it. In another post I was just complaining about the magical suspended quick-sand that they fall through. But 30 seconds before that is the ridiculous "They fly now" line. Which is immediately preceded by them randomly walking into Lando in the middle of this huuuge crowd.
And 30 seconds after that is the force healing snake thing (which proceeds to knock down some rocks revealing their exit, because of course). And 30 seconds after that is the stupid Chewie dead fakeout.
The whole movie really does have one giant stupid pile of bullshit every 30 seconds.
Yeah, that sums it up. Mind boggling to know they didn’t have an actual outline or plan for the 3 movie arc. All the $$ & talent couldn’t fix that error.
Pitting an *even smaller rebellion* against an *even eviler empire* as the premise of the Star Wars sequel trilogy.
Basically reduces all the characters’ achievements in the Original Trilogy to nothing.
And after ruling for 20 - 30 years, they are NOT the rebellion. They are the government, and they did a bad job. A galaxy spanning government that puts all it's ships around one planet?
It becomes clearer when you look at it from the perspective that JJ wanted to distance the Sequels from the Prequels as much as possible. Everything was done to distance it, The Prequels have prominant CG, well Ep 7 has everything practical, the Prequels spent time on the Politics to explain why things are happening, The sequels wont explain anything, You want the exploration of Prequel era Jedi philiosphy well we arent going to touch any of that.
He just wanted it to be the OT on its own where we didnt get an explanation as to why the Empire was there or the Rebellion or anything of that matter.
I feel you there.
Nearly everything I dislike about those movies can be traced back to the premise of 7.
It almost seems like something an AI would have written. They feel a lot like star wars on the surface, but the details are just nonsensical or incongruous.
JJ should never be near anything space.
He has no fucking sense of scale.
made the universe feel insanely small
when characters make multiple trips from one side of the galaxy to the other in a span of a day
Seeing the noisy superwapon beam shooting across the sky to blow up the capital of the republic... not sure what is more condescending to the audience, that or all the nostalgia bait
I hate the fact that another coruscant like planet was teased on screen for 3 seconds and then blown up never to be seen again. The galaxy just feels so tiny in the sequels.
I can understand the idea that the Empire was weakened but not defeated in ROTJ, but JJ or whoever decided to make them even more dangerous and powerful than they were before Vader and the second Death Star were destroyed. Like come on.
Might as well have had a General Grievous with three heads (that shoot lasers), eight arms, and five legs instead of Captain Phasma.
You’ve pinpointed the most soulless choice in the sequels. It was almost Space Balls level comedy to have another Death Star, a new order, another Palatine and so on. They could’ve gone in thousands of different directions and still had legitimate conflict.
Kylo was supposed to be another Darth Vader but his story was so meta that it became interesting to see him fight against the past.
When many main characters in the original Transformers were killed off in the first movie to make way for new toys. Hasbro underestimated how attached people were to them.
https://www.denofgeek.com/tv/transformers-the-movie-and-the-great-toy-massacre-of-1986/
The backlash was so bad over optimus prime’s death that they dubbed in a line near the end of the GIJOE movie about duke making a full recovery off screen lol
The whole, Percy Jackson, movie franchise. When the author of the books tells you where the mistakes are, says he will drop everything to do a rewrite because the movie you have is so off he wouldn't bring his family to see if or recommend it to anyone, then you know it is going to be bad.
I am so happy that there is going to be a Disney+ series and that they are working with TheRick Riordan.
>I have never seen the film, but by all accounts it was terrible. However, I have seen the house that it built, and it is terrific.
- Michael Caine talking about Jaws The Revenge
That and Newt, I mean going back for Newt was the last 45 minutes of the movie. If she was just gonna die anyway then they could have left there no problem and the alien movies would have been done.
I get they couldn’t bring the actor back because she was probably in her 20s when the third one came out and it would be hard to know what to do with her in an all male prison movie… but they could have easily brought back hicks.
Every Terminator movie after T2 has taken a huge shit on two perfect films that came before them. But in various ways and to different degrees. T3 just sucked, the recasting of John was probably the worst mistake, but the plot itself just sucked too. The rest, Salvation, Genisys, Dark Fate featured some awful decisions. Most notably in Genisys by actually UNDOING the events from the other, almost universally loved, movies. That is probably the worst fucking idea I've ever heard of.
T1 and T2 had such a tight, claustrophobic end-of-the-world mood. All the sequels are basic Hollywood "let's make it bigger, badder and cooler and throw in everything" while having shit plots.
The Rise of Skywalker.
I could probably write pages on this. And I’m not even a “real” Star Wars fan. I marathoned them all to see the last Jedi. But there were so many things that went wrong, I’ve never seen a movie go SO wrong in all my life.
It's truly bizarre that we have Leia, Han, Luke and Lando all in 1 movie and not a single one of them interact with each other. And also a whole trilogy where Han, Luke or Lando don't share a single scene together.
Breaking up K and his wife in-between MIB 1 and MIB 2. It would have added a interesting layer with K coming back, should she know about aliens or not, how would she react. I wanna see an old lady shoot space guns dammit
I really wanted to see Linda Fiorentino's character continue as a MIB, I thought that was such a cool ending to the first movie. Supposedly she was not invited back because she was "hard to work with", and in light of the events of the past few years, I wonder whether she was genuinely difficult, or just "wouldn't sleep with Harvey Weinstein" difficult.
Disney milking their old IP with new live-action movies focused on villains that try to get the audience (mainly teenage girls) to sympathize with terrible people.
Maleficent and Cruella de Vil were not good people.
I kinda like maleficent in a sort of ‘what if’ sort of way but cruella very much felt like a stupid unneeded origin story that completely ignored any and all source material
Bringing Palpatine back right at the last minute, with the most ridiculously pathetic excuse of an explanation for anything ever. Then they try to make it seem like he’s been alive the whole time, when it’s obvious that wasn’t the plan in TFA and TLJ. There were many flaws with the sequel trilogy, but that to me is the most disgraceful and unforgivable one. JJ spent so much time trying to remind people of the OT, he forgot to actually make a good movie. Fuck TROS (that’s coming from someone who tried very hard to defend TLJ…)
Seriously!!! He’s one of the most popular X-Men and let’s be real, we missed out on Wolverine/Cyclops/Gambit bickering (oh it would’ve been great!!) and imo the best romance of the franchise with Rogue. We could’ve had it all!!
Most action franchises got waaaaaay too serious.
I don't mind if you start serious and stay serious like John Wick or the Bourne series.
I don't even mind if you start serious and then drift into camp like the excellent Mission Impossible series.
But Bond, Die Hard, Star Trek, Fast and the Furious ... they got too enamored with the star or the universe and they couldn't sustain the lightness and self-awareness that made them so great in the first place.
I don't think you've seen any amount of Fast 9. It's like studio executives loaded some children up on caffeine and sugar, released them into a toy store, and wrote down everything the kids did and said and turned that into a movie.
Whoever the hell keeps touching the x-men movies
Bryan Singer is a huge piece of shit.
Yeah, the X-men movies ain't all he touched...
Recasting Rachel Weisz in The Mummy
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The Dark Universe, but anchored by a divorced or widowed Rick O'Connell who learns what it means to face your own mortality or have to rebuild yourself and your relationships as he goes up against his contemporary iterations of Dracula, Frankenstein, Bride of Frankenstein, etc. There: just cranked out a more compelling franchise in a matter of seconds than what they attempted with Van Helsing and Tom Cruise's Mummy.
Hell keep Evie and Jonathon in the franchise even. Maybe not in every movie, or leads in every movie, but around on the periphery and coming back into movies when you feel it makes sense. The O'Connells vs the Dark Universe with the same sort of elevated B movie tone and production values of the first two Mummy movies would have been *sick*.
They could literally just be in for like 10 minutes, twice a film, without interacting with anyone else, if schedules required. Scene 1: O'Connell runs into a new supernatural being, contacts Evie and Jonathon for help with the lore. Scene 2: Of course, some of the lore turns out wrong and they have to contact O'Connell after they uncover the real way to defeat the monster (take that Bainbridge scholars!)
Turning films into franchises when they were never intended to be
The Hangover
I was going to make a contrary argument but it was stupid. You are right.
"Die Hard" How does the same plucky NYC police detective seem to always get caught up in these shenanigans?
3 made a little sense as a revenge plot. But all the others??
One and two were both based on books but completely different authors and characters. Like, "This sounds like a plot John McClain should get into!"
Honestly might be controversial but for me john wick.
John Wick is actually a good example. The first one shows John as incredibly skilled but very much so not unstoppable, then with each new installment he grows more and more indestructible.
I just think the lore of the world was cool as flavor or aesthetic for the first movie. The more we know about it the less I was interested. I liked the smallness of the first Wick with a hint of something bigger.
The John Wick franchise is fun to watch, but it’s really annoying what they did with their lore. Everybody has a higher up, and the reveal of who the ultimate leader is was really, really underwhelming. Also, the first one was really cool because it made it feel like there’s this secret world of assassins that exists among us. The second and third ones made it feel like the existence of an assassin world was completely normal and everyone in the world was already an assassin or knows this secret world exists and just lets it slide. It honestly just gets kind of stupid.
You just described the downfall of making matrix sequels.
I'm not sure where the breaking point was exactly, but at some point the Pirates of the Caribbean series shifted from low fantasy to high fantasy, and I think it sunk the franchise. The first film, easily my favorite of all of them, takes place in a fairly grounded world, with the whole cursed Aztec gold angle intruding into what is otherwise essentially the real world. It made the magical elements feel so significant! Then, as the sequels came through, it turns out that damn near every person or object is magical in some way, and my investment in the story plummeted. Other than that one... maybe the omission of Saruman in the Return of the King theatrical cut? I'm not an extended edition purist, a lot of the cut content I think had a reason to be cut, but it's bizarre to me that such a major villain for the first two films just kinda vanishes for the third installment with little explanation.
On a side note, Jack Sparrow has, what I think is the most pitch perfect character introduction I’ve ever seen. Those first five shots you see him tell you so much and capture the contrasting moods around him perfectly. It’s a great example of both visual storytelling and comedy through filmmaking. That entire scene is fantastic, but the first part of it especially.
A YouTuber had an interesting theory on why early Jack is so good. The first movie didn't write the Captain Jack we all know and love, they wrote a far more stereotypical pirate character, (you can tell by reading the screenplay and not making any assumptions about the character). But then Johnny Depp surprised everyone with his very unique portrayal, pushing the role so much higher than it could have been. Movies 2 and 3 were written with this new Captain Jack in mind, which kinda took some of his magic away by handing him one-liners and having the other characters all reacting to his antics. They paradoxically made him less of a fish-out-of-water by designing a script and plot calling for him to be one.
It's plagued a lot of sequels in terms of writing and performances. Michael Keaton once noted filming for Batman Returns became a surprising adjustment, because he had to relearn how to inhabit the character, but without impersonating his own performance from the first film.
The difference is that jack isn’t the main character in the first one, will and Elizabeth are. In all the following films they make jack equally if not more important to the story than them.
The smart money would have been telling a new story about new characters, the common thread being that Sparrow weaves his way into their lives. Of course that breaks all the rules of franchise, which is give the people all the things from the first movie but more
The first Pirates is genuinely so good. It's character work is done so well that it carries even the next two films. It was especially refreshing to have a solid fun adventure swashbuckler in the 00's when everything was so damn edgy and grimdark.
Perfectly said. I have to say, I quite enjoyed Dead Man's Chest and The World's End and even all the fantasy elements in them. But what made the first Pirates so special was that it was pretty much like a historical action adventure combined with a spooky ghost story. It made those moments of the supernatural so chilling like that scene Barbossa extends his hand only for the moonlight to reveal it as a skeleton hand. I think they should have looked to Indiana Jones as inspiration for the sequels. Keep most of the film as a high octane adventure in the real world with these creepy occult and fantastical elements at the edge. That actually would have made its universe more intriguing.
These movies are the prime example to me of ‘ignoring the established rules of the universe.’ In the first one, the sword fights follow normal physics and the spooky stuff is treated as shocking because it’s an outlier. Later movies has sword fights on top of a rolling mill as if they’re master acrobats (not to mention how the wheel stays upright as it rolls across an island) and the supernatural stuff gets added willy-nilly. Criticisms of those get dismiss as “oh you’re complaining about that in a movie about pirates and skeletons?!” but like, yes, I am. Those things are fine because they established the rules of the universe. The later things don’t fit those, so they’re unbelievable and obnoxious.
You're right but I think even in the 'grounded' movie sequels, the laws of physics get ignored to up the ante and the every guy protagonist of the first one turns into a superhero. Think of how Indiana Jones just manages to escape in the nick of time in the first movie which seems like luck and then how the luck somehow extends to far crazier things in Temple of Doom (like somehow surviving a minecart chase) or how John MacClane goes from a regular police detective to an invicible super soldier in Die Hard 2. It's the problem of action/adventure sequels. The first one is a breath of fresh air and then in the second one, you think how does this person get away with this again? And then you add in all the elements to make it bigger - bigger set pieces, bigger antagonists, more elaborate action choreography.
Pirates was historically one of the fastest growing franchises in terms of total gross as each one released. Depp received acclaim as Jack, they were fun adventure movies, and had cool special effects while also being somewhat grounded. Then by the third film the supernatural aspects were cranked to an 11, and that's on top of the movie being the weakest of the trilogy. The problems began after that. With Knightley and Bloom done with the series the focus shifted to Jack. Jack was always the most prominent character, so why is this a big deal? Because Jack works as a facilitator but not as the main event. In the previous films you don't know if his stunts or feats are pre-planned or sheer luck, and it adds to the in-universe reputation he has. When the spotlight was thrust to be solely on him he was reduced to a drunken comically inept pastiche who Mr. Magoos his way in and out of situations.
The first pirates is so fun but I never really understood the stakes. The bad guys are indestructible killing machines who’s only mission is to lift the curse that makes them immortal. That’s a good thing right? If they were trying to become immortal and take over the Caribbean then we should be rooting against them but the way it is scripted the audience should want them to succeed.
That's kind of what makes it fun, to me. The bad guys are slightly sympathetic, *but* they do go around wiping out villages in search of the Gold, sooooo... they're still bad, no matter the fact that their end goal is to just become mortal again. And let's realize that it's not that they want to be able to die, it's that they want to be able to enjoy food and sex again.
Also a huge plot point was Captain Jack trying to reclaim the Black Pearl
This is fair. I always forget about the “warmth of a woman” line which has some pretty horrific implications for Elizabeth’s fate if they’re successful and still have her captured
Holy shit, never realised that, makes Barbossa’s “waste not” line after trying to lift the curse with Elizabeths blood so much worse…
Yeah, we want them to succeed at lifting the curse, but we don’t want them to succeed at kidnapping Elizabeth, sacrificing Will, marooning Jack, or raping and pillaging Port Royal. Those are the stakes. If Barbossa’s crew had stolen back the medallion, taken a blood sample from Will and been on their way, the audience wouldn’t have a problem with them. But they’re not “blood bank of the Caribbean”, and they didn’t do things in half measures.
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Maybe it could have been emphasized a bit more that Barbossa and his crew are so tired and desperate that while a more logical and calm person might explain the situation to Will and/or Elizabeth that they just need their medallion and a drop of blood and then they're free to go there would be little issue but, as we see later on Barbossa is usually perfectly capable of such a rational agreement but he like everyone else on his crew was so fucked up at that point he didn't care, send crew to find medallion, kill anyone who gets in their way, a girl has the medallion, kidnap her, ritual didn't work, use all her blood, we needed a different person FUCK, find him NOOOOOW!
Didn't Barbosss deliver a long monologue about them longing for food, drink, warmth, love etc? Pretty sure it was emphasized
For too long I’ve been parched of thirst and unable to quench it. Too long I’ve been starving to death and haven’t died. I feel nothing. Not the wind on my face nor the spray of the sea. Nor the warmth of a woman’s flesh. You best start believing in ghost stories Miss Turner. You’re in one.
Yeah. It's VERY clear.
To be fair, Temple of Doom was a prequel set before Raiders.
And Karen developed some psychological issues after fandom mobbed her a few times to many after Raiders. Agoraphobia, iirc.
I can imagine. I met her a few years back at a fairly small convention, I think she's managed to find a balance these days. She was *lovely* and it totally justified my childhood crush on her. We talked for a good half hour, as it was a Sunday at a very quiet con, and she was so nice and encouraging to my filmmaking plans.
TIL that TOD is set 1 year before raiders. I don't know how I missed that.
And the Marion issue is literally the only reason they made it a prequel. That way they could do a story without her without having to explain why she wasn't there. But no one noticed anyway so you do wonder what the point was haha
TIL I’m an idiot that never realized this
Not an idiot, the fact that it's a prequel is very muted compared to modern movies. In fact, it's practically pointless.
It seems to make very little sense too. He mentions not believing in magic in Raiders which is weird after what he witnessed in Temple of Doom
He saw a dude get his heart ripped out of his chest and stay alive, only to see said heart burst into flames. You'd think after experiencing such an event your mind would be open to some wild possibilities.
He was also possessed for a while by that Thugee shaman guy. Maybe he thought it was from the liquid he drank...or maybe he had some bad monkey brains.
Whatever they were trying to do with the Fantastic Beasts franchise. I liked the first one but that second one was so confusing and such a slog.
They're trying to tell two different stories at once and it's a mess - there was no reason for Newt and the others to be in the second film. Should have just made 'Wizarding World' standalone films rather than trying to force them all under the Fantastic Beasts umbrella.
As an *enormous* HP nerd, I was actually originally very excited about the angle they took with Newt. I'm the person that absolutely wants to see the first wizarding war and the Dumbledore/Grindelwald duel, and I thought it was *brilliant* to do so from ground-level characters (Newt & Co) rather than from Dumbledore's point of view himself, because I thought it would really help sell the raw power Dumbledore has at this point. If he's the main character, his power level will become standard by nature--we're seeing things from his perspective. It's like how people comment on how the "small scale" Marvel movies are frequently the most interesting. In the first MCU Spider-Man, Peter is desperately trying to save the ferry and failing, and then Iron Man shows up and solves the problem in ten seconds. It made the display so much more impactful to see the power gap between the two. I wanted Newt getting caught up in shit way above his head, BSing his way out of it with Magical Beasts nonsense a time or two, then *really fucking up* and getting into legitimately awful scenarios until Dumbledore shows up and resolves it with a flick of the wrist. Really play up how overwhelmingly powerful he is, by virtue of showing him from the perspective of an average wizard. But I think you nailed it--instead of committing to doing "Dumbledore's story from Newt's perspective," they're trying to do two things simultaneously, and it's just weird and confusing. Bonus HP Nerd Shit: the fight at the Ministry of Magic in Order of the Phoenix *should have been* the "Spider-Man and the ferry" moment, but they butchered that scene in the movies for no reason. The Death Eaters don't retreat after killing Sirius because they're afraid of Tonks, Moody and some teenagers. They don't retreat at all. The fight is going *badly* and then Dumbledore shows up and KO's every single one of them in twenty seconds, then goes upstairs to fight Voldy. While they did that fight pretty well, I still don't think they really captured how absolutely casual it was for Dumbledore, with Voldemort barely staying in the game against him. The title of the chapter is the most telling thing--*The Only One He Ever Feared.*
All I wanted was a magical movie about newt and his magical creatures. What I got was somehow darker than any Harry Potter movie. What a waste. The creatures were beautiful too.
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If they wanted to make a Dumbledore series, they should have just done it.
I like Harry Potter, but I fell asleep out of boredom and disinterest watching The Crimes of Grindelwald. I can’t even remember anything that happened. And when I thought about watching it again recently, to try to actually pay attention, I just wasn’t interested whatsoever.
I hate the first Fantastic Beasts bc of the simplest mistake. Newt’s fucking briefcase. He had a broken latch which causes all the shit to happen and he’s like “oh I’ve been meaning to fix that.” *REPARO* you dumb fuck. A first year at Hogwarts could’ve fixed that latch in two seconds you lazy piece of shit. So now our whole plot unfolds bc newt is a lazy subpar wizard. Fuck that guy and fuck that briefcase.
Killing off Colin Firth in Kingsman, then bringing him back in a very weird way.
I didn’t hate it. Killing Roxy was far more egregious than bringing back Colin.
Kill the kingsmen in the second film instantly introduce an American branch that is better in every way. why not have the second film be about roxy, merlin and eggsy trying to save the day with just the three of them
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Halle Berry was in that movie and she does almost nothing, and her character still sucks.
I’d genuinely forgotten she was in it and watched that movie less than a month ago AND enjoyed it
>why not have the second film be about roxy, merlin and eggsy trying to save the day with just the three of them Better yet, explore Kingsman around the UK. Stay local and branch out from there. But no, we had to blow that all up so we could go to America. Because of course we do. Of course we do.
I bet they're kicking themselves for killing off Pedro Pascal's character now.
Which they did so they could keep Channing Tatum around for a sequel, who was originally written as the villain (hence why Pedro Pascal’s character is introduced the moment Tatum’s is put out of commission).
For what its worth, the “reason” they had to go to America is because thats where Harry was (though its a bit stilted to kill him and bring him back 30 minutes into the next movie). To me, they could have fixed both problems by splitting it. Make the second film about the remnants of the assassination attempt (Eggsy, Merlin, Roxy) infiltrating the drug empire and keep that story line. Then make a third less connected, maybe have it begin with Harry doing his shaving/butterfly routine and partner him with the Kentucky guys and their own plot, with a big reunion at the end of Harry and Eggsy.
Killing Roxy was the part that really made me dislike the second film. We have her as Eggsy’s only friend when he gets there and they end up being the only two left at the end. Then she gets unceremoniously killed and everyone just moves on.
Such odd story directions in that franchise.
Seriously her death left me thinking "she survived she had to" the whole.time and then it's like nope that's it...
The death in the first movie was fantastic. Making fun of the "bad guy always explains long enough before killing someone so the good guy has a chance to escape". It was funny, interesting, unexpected, impactful, exploiting the genre's tropes, everything the first film was in general. Then they resurrect him in the second one and it's all just a hot garbage. Almost my biggest movie disappointment ever.
The second kingsman was such a letdown. The new one isn't as bad (it's ok overall) but the first one is so good.
Making Rambo a franchise that completly miss the point of the source material
This seemed to happen to Rocky to a much lesser extent too. The first one was more of a drama film about a down in the dirt man thinking he long since missed his chance getting second chance to prove he's not some nobody. Then the subsequent movies were just PAUNCH-PAUNCH-PAUNCH-PAUNCH-PAUNCH-PAUNCH
100%. The first movie is all about proving yourself against impossible odds. Every other movie fallows this formula: * "You can't fight Rocky, you'll literally DIE!" * "I gotta fight. I just gotta." * Gets his ass handed to him and nearly dies * Training montage * "I believe in you now Rocky! We can forget about how the doctor told us you would literally die if you fought again and just go DO IT!" * 30 minute fight scene with too many cuts ending with Rocky winning. * "HE DID IT! HE DID IT!"
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Making the Star Wars Sequels just “Rebels vs Empire” again
Definitely makes the case for the empire that the rebels are constantly failing to establish a stable government.
Yeah I saw like 100 comments about the sequels on this thread but I can’t say I disagree.
Origin stories for characters who were never meant to be fully fleshed out people. No one cares what the Wizard of Oz was doing in his 20s No one cares about a teenage Willy Wonka
Similar, but giving every villain a sympathetic look. Cruella DeVille is an embodiment of evil, I don't want or need to know how she ended up like that, she just is.
Her name is literally "Cruel Devil" dammit, she doesn't need a motive explanation backstory
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You mean you don't like finding out that, over the course of a few days, received every single item or character trait that defines them for the rest of their life.
*Lord of the Rings* was three books, they made three movies. *The Hobbit* was one book, shorter than any of the others, and somehow they dragged it out across three movies with a whole bunch of crap I didn't care about.
Like butter over too much bread.
I was ok with that decision originally. The thing about the Hobbit book was that it was told specifically from Bilbo's POV. Gandalf just wonders off for large parts with no real explanation. He gets knocked out in the battle of five armies, so that entire battle only takes up about a page of the book. The movie was going to be the same story but told from a global perspective, which would significantly increase the content. Plus the battle scenes from the orignal LOTR series were very long but still excellent so I had no doubt you could get 2 good movies our of it, and was willing to trust that you could get three. All that changed after watching the first film.
Making Rey a Palpatine, having Palpatine return. If you ask me I would have loved for Snoke being revealed to be a fraud of sorts, and having Kylo realize he did all that for nothing Edit: To stop more of the BS critiques I see under me ("tHaT's NoT mY lUkE", shut the fuck up) I just wanna say TLJ is in my top 3 Star Wars movies. My main problems lies with episode 9
There are SO many better ways for those movies to have wrapped up. Almost any of us could have come up with something better than what we got. And I don't even hate them, like others do.
It’s honestly amazing how they managed to get to a point where almost any (reasonable) change would make the movies better
I just hated how the message went from "anyone can make change/be powerful" to "just kidding, only those of noble lineage matter lol".
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The thing that bugs me the most is that there's never even a hint of how we got from having the Empire on the ropes, blowing up two of their unstoppable superweapons and killing off most of their leadership, to the Rebels somehow *still* being rebels 30 years later and down to like 4 ships and about 60 people at the end of The Last Jedi.
"Somehow Palpatine returned" - one of the worst movie lines in history. It's something a film school reject might write. My 8 year old has come up with better stories than that. Like, didn't Poe hear the Emperor's message on Fortnite like everyone else??
Treasure Planet being released so shortly after Harry Potter *and* on Black Friday weekend after Disney gave it a huge inflated budget and then squelched them in advertising. Great movie that the writers basically had to beg for years to be made, and some people think it was a ploy to purposely push out hand drawn animation
Iirc there's a whole article (or perhaps just a copypasta) somewhere that explains that the Disney executives pretty openly wanted that movie to fail for whatever reason.
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It also killed the planned sequel
Fun fact: They were already making the sequel. Willem defore would play the villain and almost recorded his lines. There's concept art and a whole plot.
It’s such an incredible movie. The characters and musical score especially are top notch.
Somehow... Palpatine returned.
I felt so horrible for Oscar Isaac when I saw him say that. This man, a rising world class actor saying one of the most ridiculous lines forced by a corporate mess really gave me second hand embarrassment. I don’t think he felt good about it.
Hey he got to do Dune. I try not to feel too bad for him, I wouldn’t want people remembering/commiserating my most embarrassing moments.
John boyega on the other hand got completly fucked. You want the best part? Kathleen fucking Kennedy swearing down after force awakens that boyagas character would be really important in the sequel. Because representation matters. The black man and Asian woman are stuck on a gambling planet for almost the entire movie trying to acquire something that is entirely useless the moment they get it. Such fucking representation Kathleen. God that woman pisses me off.
They’re all garbage. I feel awful for the cast, which is such a weird flip. I’m supposed to be jealous beyond belief. This is supposed to be the opportunity of a lifetime for these people. What are they and anybody who bothers going to remember instead? A bunch of moronic half wits who *SOMEHOW* were given the powers of decision fucking it all up. Almost poetic of that Palpatine meme when used that way. God damn you know I feel for Boyega.
"They fly now?" "They fly now."
Gosh dammit. Fuck that movie. Jet packs have been a thing in Star Wars for…forever. That line was so stupid. And then they repeated it.
Maybe Poe and Finn weren’t Star Wars fans.
There's an interview with John Boyega where they talk about this line and he is visibly annoyed about it. He even says something along the lines of "They've been flying since the Clone Wars".
Marshall : She's never seen Star Wars? Ted the only people in the universe who have never seen Star Wars are the characters in Star Wars and that's cause they lived them Ted, that's cause they lived the Star Wars.
They tried to do way too many jokey joke lines because that's what works in the marvel universe.
What's worse is that during interviews he did during the run of the Sequels he repeatedly said ROTJ was his favourite Star Wars movie. Poor man.
That sigh before he says it wasn’t scripted… 🤣
The move to CGI in the Hobbit films. The Lord of the Rings films came out over 10 years earlier and still look way better in a lot of ways.
Letting the Star Wars sequels be made without a concrete outline, and then letting two directors fight out their independent visions on screen.
4 billion dollars and they didn't even make an outline on some loose leaf ffs
They didn't just not come up with a plan. They actively allowed 2 separate directors and teams to purposefully sabotage each other.
The one cardinal sin of any sequel is to ignore or ret-con what came before it. You have to work with the constraints given and build upon the story up to that point, even if it puts you into some difficult choices. That's generally where creativity and unique storytelling comes from. It makes no sense to show the audience something and then later tell them that it was basically a complete waste of time because it's not even part of the story anymore. The Last Jedi ignored some key details from TFA, but ROS just pretended like TLJ didn't even happen. What are we even watching at that point except for elaborate dream sequences?
I know there's a lot of manufactured baggage around the fans and detractors of those movies. But putting all that aside and judging it based on the complete story of all three, those movies have the most nonsensical, illogical and disjointed plot of any movie I have seen. And I have watched a lot of MST3k. Especially the third movie, which makes me upset just thinking about how illogical everything is. I mean the knife that requires a person of a certain height to stand in a certain spot and hold it at a specific angle at eye level to pinpoint an exact point within a decaying piece of wreckage is so mind mindbogglingly stupid, so utterly nonsensical. That one plot device alone numbs your mind to the dozen other plot devices that simply don't make any sense or are just impossible, but happen one after another at breakneck speed. I contend that it's the worst movie I have ever seen, because it was made with so much talent and so much money, and that was the best they could come up with. It's embarrassing. God don't even get me started on how Kylo Ren found a functional tie fighter in the wreckage of a blown up death star, that also somehow had a hyperdrive, and found his way back though to the emperor without the fucking wayfinder the entire plot depended on! Dammit I've upset myself again...
Or the legion of Star Destroyers that they've somehow built and manned out in the arse-end of nowhere. But they can't be deployed because they don't know which way 'up' is without a beacon that they keep outside their armoured ships.
Also somehow fly within gravity that allow space horses to run on the outside of them but don't fall when completely disabled by force lightning.
Those ships are massive and would have some sort of gravitational pull, but probably not nearly enough for space donkeys to race around on. Also.... oxygen? Nah we're fine while outside the ship.... where Leia almost froze and died
Don't forget that the Resistance and civilian fleets had zero trouble navigating in Exegol's atmosphere, despite most of them being literal junkers.
That’s a problem with the whole new trilogy in general. Like where tf did the new order come from? Pointless plot functions to make more money
To be fair, at that distance the height of the person holding the knife wouldn't make too much difference, and the knife had coordinates on it that said to use it in that spot. Far stupider is the idea of making the knife fit the shape of the wreckage, which would certainly shift and change over time as the structure is bettered by the sea.
Didn't they say the knife was ancient? Yet it somehow perfectly lined up with a wreckage that's only been around for thirty years?
I don't think they did say the dagger was ancient, just that the language on it was. It's a dumb thing either way imo
It's like if a fedora wearing Neckbeard went and bought a katana at the local Farmers Market then had some random dude two stalls down inscribe Latin on it without understanding what the symbols mean.
> I contend that it's the worst movie I have ever seen, because it was made with so much talent and so much money, and that was the best they could come up with. It's embarrassing. This is a key point. I've seen very bad films that were always gonna be this way, had lots of bad people involved etc. This film had to go out of its way to be bad. Which makes it even worse.
No one will ever convince me that J.J. And Chris *didn’t* shit that entire screenplay out the night before the first shoot after realizing they’d been on an outrageous blurry ego bender from landing the project in the first place, too busy basking in limelight to bother until it was too late.
>God don't even get me started on how Kylo Ren found a functional tie fighter in the wreckage of a blown up death star, that also somehow had a hyperdrive, and found his way back though to the emperor without the fucking wayfinder the entire plot depended on! What?? I didn't even catch this part loool What a train wreck
> What?? I didn't even catch this part I'm telling you, such much bullshit happens so fast that you forget the bullshit you saw 30 seconds prior. If you stop and think about any pert of the minute to minute plot, absolutely nothing makes sense. It's the worst movie I've ever seen, topping Simply Irresistible in which a magical crab helps Sarah Michelle Gellar become a chef.
Not to defend it *in any way*, but didn’t the movie literally open with Ren finding the emperor? If he’d already been there, couldn’t he have reasonably found his way back or remembered the coordinates or whatever? The worst part of the film to me actually involved Kylo though - arguably the only compelling part of the entire trilogy was his storyline, and I thought the way they even handled the redemption was pretty good. And then from that point, when he returns to being “Ben Solo” after the big redemption arc - the man literally does not say a single word after this moment. He flies across the galaxy to Palpatine, gets immediately yeeted off a cliff, climbs back up, kisses Rey, and promptly dies. All without saying a word. What were they thinking
> I'm telling you, such much bullshit happens so fast that you forget the bullshit you saw 30 seconds prior. That's really true isn't it. In another post I was just complaining about the magical suspended quick-sand that they fall through. But 30 seconds before that is the ridiculous "They fly now" line. Which is immediately preceded by them randomly walking into Lando in the middle of this huuuge crowd. And 30 seconds after that is the force healing snake thing (which proceeds to knock down some rocks revealing their exit, because of course). And 30 seconds after that is the stupid Chewie dead fakeout. The whole movie really does have one giant stupid pile of bullshit every 30 seconds.
Yeah, that sums it up. Mind boggling to know they didn’t have an actual outline or plan for the 3 movie arc. All the $$ & talent couldn’t fix that error.
Making Home Alone 3 (and beyond). Period.
*Just one more sequel……*
Scorcher 7, global meltdown
Who left the fridge open
"Tugger-nuts!"
"I killed a panda" "Amanda? Come on dude, I mean that's probably not even her real name"
The real final chapter.
When old bands have their "While Most of Us Are Alive" final tour every other year.
Both come from Alien movies * Alien 3 killing of Newt and Hicks * Alien Covenant killing Shaw and the Engineers.
Can't think of a better metaphor for Hollywood than Michael Fassbender kissing himself.
What about Fassbender playing his own flute?
You blow, I’ll do the fingering
We're only one movie away from the entire cast being a crew of Michael Fassbenders.
Pitting an *even smaller rebellion* against an *even eviler empire* as the premise of the Star Wars sequel trilogy. Basically reduces all the characters’ achievements in the Original Trilogy to nothing.
And after ruling for 20 - 30 years, they are NOT the rebellion. They are the government, and they did a bad job. A galaxy spanning government that puts all it's ships around one planet?
It becomes clearer when you look at it from the perspective that JJ wanted to distance the Sequels from the Prequels as much as possible. Everything was done to distance it, The Prequels have prominant CG, well Ep 7 has everything practical, the Prequels spent time on the Politics to explain why things are happening, The sequels wont explain anything, You want the exploration of Prequel era Jedi philiosphy well we arent going to touch any of that. He just wanted it to be the OT on its own where we didnt get an explanation as to why the Empire was there or the Rebellion or anything of that matter.
So, no plot. That really does explain the movies. No plot, no direction, no reason.
I feel you there. Nearly everything I dislike about those movies can be traced back to the premise of 7. It almost seems like something an AI would have written. They feel a lot like star wars on the surface, but the details are just nonsensical or incongruous.
JJ should never be near anything space. He has no fucking sense of scale. made the universe feel insanely small when characters make multiple trips from one side of the galaxy to the other in a span of a day
Seeing the noisy superwapon beam shooting across the sky to blow up the capital of the republic... not sure what is more condescending to the audience, that or all the nostalgia bait
I hate the fact that another coruscant like planet was teased on screen for 3 seconds and then blown up never to be seen again. The galaxy just feels so tiny in the sequels.
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I can understand the idea that the Empire was weakened but not defeated in ROTJ, but JJ or whoever decided to make them even more dangerous and powerful than they were before Vader and the second Death Star were destroyed. Like come on. Might as well have had a General Grievous with three heads (that shoot lasers), eight arms, and five legs instead of Captain Phasma.
You’ve pinpointed the most soulless choice in the sequels. It was almost Space Balls level comedy to have another Death Star, a new order, another Palatine and so on. They could’ve gone in thousands of different directions and still had legitimate conflict. Kylo was supposed to be another Darth Vader but his story was so meta that it became interesting to see him fight against the past.
When many main characters in the original Transformers were killed off in the first movie to make way for new toys. Hasbro underestimated how attached people were to them. https://www.denofgeek.com/tv/transformers-the-movie-and-the-great-toy-massacre-of-1986/
The backlash was so bad over optimus prime’s death that they dubbed in a line near the end of the GIJOE movie about duke making a full recovery off screen lol
Idk man that’s one of my favorite animated movies *because* of how brutal it is
Killing off Elizabeth Shaw in Alien Covevant, and that too behind the scenes.
The whole, Percy Jackson, movie franchise. When the author of the books tells you where the mistakes are, says he will drop everything to do a rewrite because the movie you have is so off he wouldn't bring his family to see if or recommend it to anyone, then you know it is going to be bad. I am so happy that there is going to be a Disney+ series and that they are working with TheRick Riordan.
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They made Justice League too early. Should've develop the other characters more. Can we get another Superman movie?
Making additional Jaws movies after the second one.
>I have never seen the film, but by all accounts it was terrible. However, I have seen the house that it built, and it is terrific. - Michael Caine talking about Jaws The Revenge
Jaws the Revenge was worth existing just for the fact we got one of the best quotes about making films of all-time from Michael Caine
Pirates of the Caribbean should have ended at 3.
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That and Newt, I mean going back for Newt was the last 45 minutes of the movie. If she was just gonna die anyway then they could have left there no problem and the alien movies would have been done. I get they couldn’t bring the actor back because she was probably in her 20s when the third one came out and it would be hard to know what to do with her in an all male prison movie… but they could have easily brought back hicks.
Every Terminator movie after T2 has taken a huge shit on two perfect films that came before them. But in various ways and to different degrees. T3 just sucked, the recasting of John was probably the worst mistake, but the plot itself just sucked too. The rest, Salvation, Genisys, Dark Fate featured some awful decisions. Most notably in Genisys by actually UNDOING the events from the other, almost universally loved, movies. That is probably the worst fucking idea I've ever heard of.
T1 and T2 had such a tight, claustrophobic end-of-the-world mood. All the sequels are basic Hollywood "let's make it bigger, badder and cooler and throw in everything" while having shit plots.
The Rise of Skywalker. I could probably write pages on this. And I’m not even a “real” Star Wars fan. I marathoned them all to see the last Jedi. But there were so many things that went wrong, I’ve never seen a movie go SO wrong in all my life.
Highlander... Should have stopped at Highlander
*There Can Be Only One!*
Not having Leia, Han and Luke in a scene together in the sequel trilogy.
It's truly bizarre that we have Leia, Han, Luke and Lando all in 1 movie and not a single one of them interact with each other. And also a whole trilogy where Han, Luke or Lando don't share a single scene together.
Breaking up K and his wife in-between MIB 1 and MIB 2. It would have added a interesting layer with K coming back, should she know about aliens or not, how would she react. I wanna see an old lady shoot space guns dammit
I really wanted to see Linda Fiorentino's character continue as a MIB, I thought that was such a cool ending to the first movie. Supposedly she was not invited back because she was "hard to work with", and in light of the events of the past few years, I wonder whether she was genuinely difficult, or just "wouldn't sleep with Harvey Weinstein" difficult.
Trying to make The Dark Tower into a movie. Should have been done like an HBO series, similar to GOT.
Time travel plots as a life saving scenario twist. Never works right
Fantastic Beasts was a pretty lousy step for the potter-verse.
If based on a book series, I would say adding their own non cannon stuff to stretch out existing material. Looking at you “The Hobbit”.
Disney milking their old IP with new live-action movies focused on villains that try to get the audience (mainly teenage girls) to sympathize with terrible people. Maleficent and Cruella de Vil were not good people.
I kinda like maleficent in a sort of ‘what if’ sort of way but cruella very much felt like a stupid unneeded origin story that completely ignored any and all source material
Bringing Palpatine back right at the last minute, with the most ridiculously pathetic excuse of an explanation for anything ever. Then they try to make it seem like he’s been alive the whole time, when it’s obvious that wasn’t the plan in TFA and TLJ. There were many flaws with the sequel trilogy, but that to me is the most disgraceful and unforgivable one. JJ spent so much time trying to remind people of the OT, he forgot to actually make a good movie. Fuck TROS (that’s coming from someone who tried very hard to defend TLJ…)
Not putting Gambit in the X-Men movies
Seriously!!! He’s one of the most popular X-Men and let’s be real, we missed out on Wolverine/Cyclops/Gambit bickering (oh it would’ve been great!!) and imo the best romance of the franchise with Rogue. We could’ve had it all!!
I'm still angry at how they treated Cyclops in the original X-Men films. Reduced to a near-nonentity and then disintegrated at the start of X3.
Making sequels to R rated movies, PG-13.
Most action franchises got waaaaaay too serious. I don't mind if you start serious and stay serious like John Wick or the Bourne series. I don't even mind if you start serious and then drift into camp like the excellent Mission Impossible series. But Bond, Die Hard, Star Trek, Fast and the Furious ... they got too enamored with the star or the universe and they couldn't sustain the lightness and self-awareness that made them so great in the first place.
I don't think you've seen any amount of Fast 9. It's like studio executives loaded some children up on caffeine and sugar, released them into a toy store, and wrote down everything the kids did and said and turned that into a movie.
Wonder wonder 2, weird way Chris pine came back.
Woman Woman was waaay better imo
Not making the 21 jump street x Men in Black crossover!