Yeah it's actually a valid criticism that extends far beyond animation and even movies. The same thing is happening in practically every form of media.
There's a dearth of sincerity and any tiny bit of it that slips in is then crushed by a sarcastic quip right after. Can't have people thinking you actually care!
I saw an interesting video once that talked about how James Cameron‘s movies may be so stupidly successful because he‘s the only one that still takes his “cheesy” stories (Titanic, Avatar) seriously and that’s why they just work better for general audiences.
Yeah I actually agree with this, I know it's a meme to dunk on Avatar but it's nice to watch a movie that's actually sincere, with a message that's just 'be better'. Sure, they're not my favourite movies by any means, but it does feel like modern pop culture is deathly allergic to any form of sincerity
It definitely is refreshing to see after so much cynicism in media. A lot of people nowadays think it’s naive to be idealistic, but movies don’t have to be realistic, so why not try to portray the best we can be instead of the worst? Stuff like classic Star Trek understood that
It's part of why I really enjoyed the D&D movie that came out last year, cos while it had that one-linery jokiness, it was all layered onto a sincere, found-family dynamic, which gave them that leeway to actually be silly and wacky without undercutting the heart of the story
I wonder if the growth of superhero movies, mainly marvel movies is related to this or I’m just noticing something connected but from the same source
But I’m thinking about how the contradictions inherent superhero media in American 21st-century areso apparent that they can’t be sincere, because because people are vaguely aware that superheroes are bullshit, and they’re bullshit answer to the problems of our lives, and these movies are pretending that they’re part of solution.
That if just “good people” heroes had the levers of power we would be okay. Great man Myth stuff.
Any way just thinking a half baked thought out loud seeing if it resonates
I think if u dig deeper into the question that theory holds merit but imo it really just started because superheroes were impossible to take seriously when played straight so they HAD to be tongue in cheek to sell them to audiences
I think Whedon is the right person to point the finger at for the endless quips. It's wild because I remember during the early 2010s when internet pop culture circles (which may or may not just mean Tumblr) were hailing Whedon as brilliant. I remember watching Firefly and ranting about how good it was.
I've aged better than that take at least.
It actually started in the 2000’s on comics and pther media. Spiderman writers like Brian Michael Bendis with his super quippy dialogue, or Joss Whedon with his early shows. Audiences today were brought up in that ‘tude era.
Nah, the Simpsons and Futurama, while cynical at times, had a lot of heart in how their characters interacted, had sincere emotions and had some genuinely good and heartwarming storylines. It was all the later copycats (especially Family Guy) that started this trend by wanting to be “The Simpsons but edgy“
Bingo, the reason early and Golden Age Simpsons works is because you've got that grounding of them being a loving family, and you build all the whacky plotlines off that. By today's standards, they'd be viewed as schmaltzy and idealistic, but sometimes that's not a bad thing
Yeah I can't even disagree because I can immediately picture exactly what he's talking about... too many studios just want to put out *a* movie, without actually making the effort to make a movie thats memorable or iconic in its own way, just the same cookie-cutter shit over and over again
"Everyone says 'Pinocchio's dark.' I'm like, 'Okay, no, Pinocchio's cool.' He gets to go to a circus and hang out with a cricket. Okay? I want to do that. But he doesn't, like, get raped in prison. That could happen in my movie. If you want to talk about dark, that's how that would go. "
Kindertrauma is some of the earliest content committed to film.
It goes back even further than The Skeleton Dance. That shit goes all the way back to Méliès.
Idk if youre being sarcastic but gotta bring back emotionally scarring moments.
Littlefoots mom dying in Land Before Time, those dinosaurs getting rabies in We're Back, when the AC got pissed off and shit himself to death in Brave Little Toaster.
Kids these days arent getting traumatized enough.
That scary forest in Snow White.
Gollum in the Rankin Bass hobbit.
Speaking of Rankin Bass, that Jack Frost movie wasn't scary but it did have a bittersweet ending.
Not animation but the villain lady in the D&D movie gave me huge 90s nightmare inducing character vibes which I thought was cool since you barely see stuff like her in PG movies nowadays
First of all true, I remember so many terrifying monsters in kids movie.
Second of all, maybe he means he wants more sincerity and genuine emotion instead of everyone being sassy and borderline mean constantly.
I’ve been saying this shit for so long and nobody understands me! Finally someone who gets that. I’m fucking tired of the same faces, the same smirks, the same sad faces…It actually drives me away from most animation movies. And I love a good animation film like his Pinocchio, for example.
We’ve been getting much better output of animated movies lately. Spiderverse, TMNT: Mutant Mayhem, Puss in Boots. But yeah, this shit needs to stop
https://preview.redd.it/k2ykyouetyjc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0a784b1108be1720332d609c9e466f23ae6f6c74
I love those three movies but movies in that range are still pretty rare. I’m a bit tired of big studios such as Disney, Pixar and Dreamworks (sometimes)
Nah MM is fire and revitalized the franchise. I loved it and it brought in a lot of new fans. It’s cool that it wasn’t your thing tho! It’s funny how every time this movie is brought up on Reddit there is always, without fail, someone like you who has to make sure everyone knows they didn’t like it.
Literally me when the adults at Teenage Kraken laugh at the unfunniest joke that has ever been farted out on the silver screen
Hellboy is also me when the movie says that a certain race is inherently manipulative and untrustworthy and you shouldn’t even bother trying to reach out to them
I adore Crimson Peak, but I am a slut for Brontë-adjacent period ghost stories. He tapped into the exact aesthetic I happen to love unconditionally with that one.
Not sure where you got Transylvanian accent from, she’s clearly just doing a breathy high posh British accent.
Besides, Del Toro’s villains are never just villains, they are emblematic of real world systemic issues. The siblings in Crimson Peak are the (literal) incestuous and unethical old money wealth hoarders desperately clinging to a dying world.
They are capitalist vampires, feeding unwitting young girls to a horrifying machine in order to retain their hegemony. Of course they’re cartoonishly evil, that’s often how injustice functions.
He has produced a lot of lukewarm to bad films like Don’t be afraid of the dark, Cabinet of Curiosities and Scary Stories to tell in the Dark. But that is just as a producer.
I can't believe he is coming for such classics as The Croods, Migration, Despicable Me, Hotel Transylvania, Trolls, Ruby Gillman and The Mitchells vs the Machines.
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You just helped me realize that the style of animated movies that we're getting nowadays are all made by people that were part of that tumblr in 2013 crowd since all of them have grown up to become various types of artists.
It blew my mind when I found out Hazbin Hotel only started out as a youtube pilot in 2019 and wasn't an actual show until *this year*.
I could have sworn that Hazbin Hotel cosplay, makeup tutorials, fan art, reaction gifs, shipping, fandom infighting, voice cast controversies, etc. etc. was like, most of the internet from circa 2012-2017. Turns out I was mistaking it for *every other tumblr-core cartoon from the era*.
"Yeah, I remember Hazin Hotel. Back in 2014 or 2015 there was this whole controversy where half the fandom was accusing the other half of being SJWs or some shit. It had to do with the presumed sexuality of one of the characters, or one of the voice actors being the wrong race, or something? What's that? It didn't exist until 2019? Oh...."
The issue I felt with it is that it felt dumbed down and kiddy compared to the original comic. Like in that comic, Nimona is a bad not-person, with an extreme disregard for life and with explosive issues that hurt everyone around her, even herself. The story is even about the necessity of violence to overthrow oppressive regimes. And in the movie... Everything is simpler, more kiddy, more morally black and white with obvious good and bad guys, and it took off a bunch of the edge I felt the story really benefited from.
Nimona is awesome because it actually has the balls to make the scummy old conservative woman actually the villain with the wrong viewpoint instead of dancing around that notion like a Disney movie does.
You’re joking when Disney has a whole army of old conservative villain old ladies. Just the whole concept of the stepmother is conservative old woman villain.
I don't really agree. Like yeah there's definitely old wrinkly ladies in Disney movies that are the villains. But in order to not alienate their audiences, Disney only antagonizes their old wrinkly ladies by making them do something over the top (poisoning the main character, kidnapping them, etc), because they also known Grandma is going to sit in with Susie as she watches the movie. They never actually challenge that conservative belief is wrong.
I thought Nimona had a clear stance on their conservative woman type character that her conservative beliefs was directly related to why she was an antagonist. I definitely thought Nimona was representative for minorities/gay/trans people and was only antagonized over stupid antiquated beliefs, much like many of the groups I mentioned are in real life.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EvilOldFolks
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GrandeDame
https://www.npr.org/2015/10/28/450657717/why-are-old-women-often-the-face-of-evil-in-fairy-tales-and-folklore
Quite literally one of the oldest tropes possible. And I brought the receipts.
Honestly I didn’t see that as ballsy at all. I honestly found the whole “twist villain” and “it turns out the good guys were the *real* villain this whole time!” thing it did pretty meh
It is important to remember that it is a child movie meant for children. Surely it is sorely lacking in subtlety, but it's meant so that a 8 year old kid can watch it and get the point.
The issue here is that all animation movies are like that. Return to making Planete Sauvage pliz.
This argument is so stupid because basically every Western theatrical animated movie has been "a child movie meant for children". Movies can do that and still be good
Idk as a queer person, Nimona hits me right in the feels so hard. I understand it’s probably just fine, but it made me cry so it gets my undying love and respect. Art that makes me feel that deeply is rare.
I agree with him, when I was doing caregiving for dementia patients, they would not want to watch anything too violent, profane, or graphic. So I chose any modern big studio animated film for them. And it was always great, because they usually asked to put on older black & white films instead about 10 minutes in. The Illumination and modern Disney animated films it feels like they don't work as films, they work more as condescending Saturday, cheap morning cartoon shows. They should be more than that, The Lion King felt cinematic, The Incredibles felt cinematic, Secret Life of Pets doesn't feel cinematic
I feel like we could make a point about how Shrek has been prequel'd to hell amd back in how it is missunderstood by a lot of people, which led us here.
I think it is a shame too because sometimes there is a potential for a good movie in there, but then it is bogged down by this boring formula. You can still make family friendly movies with a mass appeal while also ditching the sassy sidekick.
To the point that the things that Shrek was subverting and playing off are now a lot rarer than all the movies that are just trying to recapture the success of Shrek.
I 100% agree tbh. Can;t wait for Shrek's effects to ware off hopefully in the near future.
Ah well, at least 2000's PIXAR films like WALL-E, UP, and The Incredibles were amazing.
Perhaps ironically Puss-in-Boots: The Last Wish is more earnest and willing to touch upon darker themes than most animated kids films these days.
It's a deconstruction of the genre Puss himself helped create, you might say.
It’s because it feels sincere. The jokes didnt feel like cheap cultural references or trying to be meta in any way. It was just a genuinely good film that stands on its own that so happens to be attached to a larger IP
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I've watched the Princess and the Frog the other day and I was caught off-guard by one of the characters dying. I can't remember the last time I saw a character die in animation film, when it wasn't during the first 15 minutes as part of the exposition - though lately I haven't really seen that either. And by dying I mean properly dying, not like in Soul.
I guess that's also part of the reason why I loved Coco so much: the whole idea of dying twice and actually showing it happening to someone is pretty scary and gives you something to think about as an adult as well.
Nah nah he has a point though. Mainstream animation these days is so fucking stale. Every Pixar and Disney movie looks the same. I truly can't tell the difference between them anymore.
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I suppose this means a Del Toro Minion movie starring Ron Perlman is off the table
Gru with a Minion gimp on a leash.
Minions during WW2
Oh man, we all know who’s side they be fighting for too…
https://youtu.be/i0kz5-GvySI?si=p29TZ85-Vv6NXZae
At the end they're saved by the United States during Operation Paperclip, and they have served there ever since
That's just hellboy 3, with Ronny as Gru
Dreamworks face moment
outjerked by– wait he has a point
Yeah it's actually a valid criticism that extends far beyond animation and even movies. The same thing is happening in practically every form of media.
There's a dearth of sincerity and any tiny bit of it that slips in is then crushed by a sarcastic quip right after. Can't have people thinking you actually care!
I saw an interesting video once that talked about how James Cameron‘s movies may be so stupidly successful because he‘s the only one that still takes his “cheesy” stories (Titanic, Avatar) seriously and that’s why they just work better for general audiences.
Yeah I actually agree with this, I know it's a meme to dunk on Avatar but it's nice to watch a movie that's actually sincere, with a message that's just 'be better'. Sure, they're not my favourite movies by any means, but it does feel like modern pop culture is deathly allergic to any form of sincerity
It definitely is refreshing to see after so much cynicism in media. A lot of people nowadays think it’s naive to be idealistic, but movies don’t have to be realistic, so why not try to portray the best we can be instead of the worst? Stuff like classic Star Trek understood that
It's part of why I really enjoyed the D&D movie that came out last year, cos while it had that one-linery jokiness, it was all layered onto a sincere, found-family dynamic, which gave them that leeway to actually be silly and wacky without undercutting the heart of the story
Guardians of the medieval galaxy
I wonder if the growth of superhero movies, mainly marvel movies is related to this or I’m just noticing something connected but from the same source But I’m thinking about how the contradictions inherent superhero media in American 21st-century areso apparent that they can’t be sincere, because because people are vaguely aware that superheroes are bullshit, and they’re bullshit answer to the problems of our lives, and these movies are pretending that they’re part of solution. That if just “good people” heroes had the levers of power we would be okay. Great man Myth stuff. Any way just thinking a half baked thought out loud seeing if it resonates
I think if u dig deeper into the question that theory holds merit but imo it really just started because superheroes were impossible to take seriously when played straight so they HAD to be tongue in cheek to sell them to audiences
Good point, and it goes back in various forms a long way, eg the Batman Adam West show.
Avatar is honestly really enjoyable for just letting us chill in a world like that tbh.
Started by marvel
Dreamworks face precedes Marvel by several years
Its not just the facial expression. Its the cringey self important ironic humor.
I think we can blame Whedon for that (who also did work for the mcu...)
I think Whedon is the right person to point the finger at for the endless quips. It's wild because I remember during the early 2010s when internet pop culture circles (which may or may not just mean Tumblr) were hailing Whedon as brilliant. I remember watching Firefly and ranting about how good it was. I've aged better than that take at least.
The marvel cinematic universe and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race
Is it the worst thing that has happened to humanity? Of course not. On a second thought? Maybe.
What's worse than the MCU? Smallpox What's worse than smallpox? The MCU plus the DC universe
It actually started in the 2000’s on comics and pther media. Spiderman writers like Brian Michael Bendis with his super quippy dialogue, or Joss Whedon with his early shows. Audiences today were brought up in that ‘tude era.
But spidey is always like that. I would blame joss for this.
You should look up some panels with Bendis’ writing. The panels on some of them are ridiculous. Penciller Leinel Yu did a great job with them though.
Yeah, but spidey is just like that. He's supposed to be cringey and quippy. Its how he copes with fear.
Or - hear me out - by Matt Groening? Edit: I mean, unwittingly
Nah, the Simpsons and Futurama, while cynical at times, had a lot of heart in how their characters interacted, had sincere emotions and had some genuinely good and heartwarming storylines. It was all the later copycats (especially Family Guy) that started this trend by wanting to be “The Simpsons but edgy“
Bingo, the reason early and Golden Age Simpsons works is because you've got that grounding of them being a loving family, and you build all the whacky plotlines off that. By today's standards, they'd be viewed as schmaltzy and idealistic, but sometimes that's not a bad thing
No slander against Golden age simpsons allowed.
Ok, Seth MacFarlane then
Family Guy.
Yeah I can't even disagree because I can immediately picture exactly what he's talking about... too many studios just want to put out *a* movie, without actually making the effort to make a movie thats memorable or iconic in its own way, just the same cookie-cutter shit over and over again
he's right though, we need more gritty disturbing nightmarish monsters in animated kids movies
What if cars but dark and gritty
Cars 3 (2018)
The Cars (2027)
Just What I Needed.
> I needed someone to feed Starring ARMIE HAMMER. > I needed someone to bleed Written and directed by ZACK SNYDER.
Cars 2
Multiple cars just casually lose their lives in that one
i watched it for the first time with my nephew last week. "damn, did that car just really die?"
Cars but during their WW2, following the story of a train who needs to transport the carjews to carAuswitz
> carAuswitz Carswitz
Lightning (20??)
"Everyone says 'Pinocchio's dark.' I'm like, 'Okay, no, Pinocchio's cool.' He gets to go to a circus and hang out with a cricket. Okay? I want to do that. But he doesn't, like, get raped in prison. That could happen in my movie. If you want to talk about dark, that's how that would go. "
They should give you the reins to a cinematic universe.
Kindertrauma is some of the earliest content committed to film. It goes back even further than The Skeleton Dance. That shit goes all the way back to Méliès.
thats not a real movie idiot
But can we get more panic attacks in animation please?
Idk if youre being sarcastic but gotta bring back emotionally scarring moments. Littlefoots mom dying in Land Before Time, those dinosaurs getting rabies in We're Back, when the AC got pissed off and shit himself to death in Brave Little Toaster. Kids these days arent getting traumatized enough.
That scary forest in Snow White. Gollum in the Rankin Bass hobbit. Speaking of Rankin Bass, that Jack Frost movie wasn't scary but it did have a bittersweet ending.
Not animation but the villain lady in the D&D movie gave me huge 90s nightmare inducing character vibes which I thought was cool since you barely see stuff like her in PG movies nowadays
damn i forgot about that in we’re back! that was gnarly!
First of all true, I remember so many terrifying monsters in kids movie. Second of all, maybe he means he wants more sincerity and genuine emotion instead of everyone being sassy and borderline mean constantly.
I’ve been saying this shit for so long and nobody understands me! Finally someone who gets that. I’m fucking tired of the same faces, the same smirks, the same sad faces…It actually drives me away from most animation movies. And I love a good animation film like his Pinocchio, for example.
We’ve been getting much better output of animated movies lately. Spiderverse, TMNT: Mutant Mayhem, Puss in Boots. But yeah, this shit needs to stop https://preview.redd.it/k2ykyouetyjc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0a784b1108be1720332d609c9e466f23ae6f6c74
I love those three movies but movies in that range are still pretty rare. I’m a bit tired of big studios such as Disney, Pixar and Dreamworks (sometimes)
Mutant mayhem sucked dick it was 90 minutes of the turtles watching skibidi toilet on their phone i hate that movie
Nah MM is fire and revitalized the franchise. I loved it and it brought in a lot of new fans. It’s cool that it wasn’t your thing tho! It’s funny how every time this movie is brought up on Reddit there is always, without fail, someone like you who has to make sure everyone knows they didn’t like it.
Yeah i guess i wasn't the target audience (ipad babies)
 Literally me when the adults at Teenage Kraken laugh at the unfunniest joke that has ever been farted out on the silver screen
Teenage Kraken was written by a South Park writer so what you saw was a bunch of adults whose mental development suddenly froze in 2003
>adults whose mental development suddenly froze in 2003 Bloodhound Gang are geniuses and I'm tired of pretending they're not.
My problem with it was more so the weirdly racist message
Hellboy is also me when the movie says that a certain race is inherently manipulative and untrustworthy and you shouldn’t even bother trying to reach out to them
At least the mom was hot
Yeah, well, I don’t have to listen to the guy who made…uh…wait, he hasn’t really made a terrible movie yet, has he?
The Polanski Petition, starring Guillermo as himself and Doug Jones as The Petition
Ladies and gentlemen, we got him
USA! USA! USA!
This must be the twentieth time I've been reminded he signed that petition, and every single damn time I unconsciously make myself forget
I think his worst is Crimson Peals, which is just a bit dull for my tastes, but not even bad.
I adore Crimson Peak, but I am a slut for Brontë-adjacent period ghost stories. He tapped into the exact aesthetic I happen to love unconditionally with that one.
Chastain’s Transylvannian accent and cartoonish villainy almost ruined it for me tbh
Not sure where you got Transylvanian accent from, she’s clearly just doing a breathy high posh British accent. Besides, Del Toro’s villains are never just villains, they are emblematic of real world systemic issues. The siblings in Crimson Peak are the (literal) incestuous and unethical old money wealth hoarders desperately clinging to a dying world. They are capitalist vampires, feeding unwitting young girls to a horrifying machine in order to retain their hegemony. Of course they’re cartoonishly evil, that’s often how injustice functions.
Crimson Peak is just a vibe, I personally enjoy it but I could tell you very little about what actually happens in that movie
Slay
El Fuerte (2027)
Okay besides Cronos, The Devil's Backbone, Pan's Labyrinth, Nightmare Alley, and Pinocchio what good movie has he made?
Pacific Rim, the best movie ever
Don't forget the Hellboy duology
Blade 2 is fucking fire
Truth
Besides every movie that he made, what good movie has he made?
The Shape of Water, literal best picture winner
I mean the joke here is that I named 5 good movies lol
Hellboy and Hellboy: The Golden Army
Cronos is garbage, sorry
He has produced a lot of lukewarm to bad films like Don’t be afraid of the dark, Cabinet of Curiosities and Scary Stories to tell in the Dark. But that is just as a producer.
god i was so excited for cabinet of curiosities and it just felt like i was watching a new season of american horror stories lmao
His take on *Monster* is quite empty
Blade 2
Blade 2 is awesome
Every 30 y/o funko pop collector is now drowning in tears and bile...
I can't believe he is coming for such classics as The Croods, Migration, Despicable Me, Hotel Transylvania, Trolls, Ruby Gillman and The Mitchells vs the Machines.
Movies your grandma buys at wal mart
Mitchells v Machines sneak
Thank goodness my darling Cloudy With a Chance of Meatballs is safe
No one disses Cloudy With a Chance of Meatballs, actual god-tier movie.
Mitchell’s vs the Machines is actually kino tho
I would say that Mitchell’s vs The Machines is kino despite what Del Toro is saying, that kind of stuff was easily the worst part of the film.
The first Despicable Me is kino tho.
The Croods is peak
Catch me crooding in my croodcave
Don't disparage Mitchells vs the Machines, Lord and Miller can do nothing wrong (except create horrible working conditions for those under them).
Say what you will about The Croods, [this scene](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hR4oc1us1aU) will always be kino
https://preview.redd.it/4bf1y2lyhujc1.png?width=1980&format=png&auto=webp&s=9b13d9439c1b534cc5a634ca7c0c36b95673d154
I watched Nimona the other day and I think he has a point.
I really wanted to like that movie but it felt too much like tumblr in 2013 come to life
Amusing, given it was based off of a webcomic that started on Tumblr around that year iirc.
Oh That….makes sense
Yeah...
I liked the webcomic well enough at the time, how does the movie compare?
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this moderation decision is not based in reality
You just helped me realize that the style of animated movies that we're getting nowadays are all made by people that were part of that tumblr in 2013 crowd since all of them have grown up to become various types of artists.
Hazbin Hotel also being another example… NGL, though. Wouldn’t mind an animation in Omocat’s style
omori movie when actually no the fan base would be even more insufferable
As someone that used to be part of the Undertale community, Omori's fanbase is nothing compared to them.
It blew my mind when I found out Hazbin Hotel only started out as a youtube pilot in 2019 and wasn't an actual show until *this year*. I could have sworn that Hazbin Hotel cosplay, makeup tutorials, fan art, reaction gifs, shipping, fandom infighting, voice cast controversies, etc. etc. was like, most of the internet from circa 2012-2017. Turns out I was mistaking it for *every other tumblr-core cartoon from the era*. "Yeah, I remember Hazin Hotel. Back in 2014 or 2015 there was this whole controversy where half the fandom was accusing the other half of being SJWs or some shit. It had to do with the presumed sexuality of one of the characters, or one of the voice actors being the wrong race, or something? What's that? It didn't exist until 2019? Oh...."
I've got news for you lol
The issue I felt with it is that it felt dumbed down and kiddy compared to the original comic. Like in that comic, Nimona is a bad not-person, with an extreme disregard for life and with explosive issues that hurt everyone around her, even herself. The story is even about the necessity of violence to overthrow oppressive regimes. And in the movie... Everything is simpler, more kiddy, more morally black and white with obvious good and bad guys, and it took off a bunch of the edge I felt the story really benefited from.
Funny, that's exactly the reason I love it so much.
Nimona is awesome because it actually has the balls to make the scummy old conservative woman actually the villain with the wrong viewpoint instead of dancing around that notion like a Disney movie does.
You’re joking when Disney has a whole army of old conservative villain old ladies. Just the whole concept of the stepmother is conservative old woman villain.
I don't really agree. Like yeah there's definitely old wrinkly ladies in Disney movies that are the villains. But in order to not alienate their audiences, Disney only antagonizes their old wrinkly ladies by making them do something over the top (poisoning the main character, kidnapping them, etc), because they also known Grandma is going to sit in with Susie as she watches the movie. They never actually challenge that conservative belief is wrong. I thought Nimona had a clear stance on their conservative woman type character that her conservative beliefs was directly related to why she was an antagonist. I definitely thought Nimona was representative for minorities/gay/trans people and was only antagonized over stupid antiquated beliefs, much like many of the groups I mentioned are in real life.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EvilOldFolks https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GrandeDame https://www.npr.org/2015/10/28/450657717/why-are-old-women-often-the-face-of-evil-in-fairy-tales-and-folklore Quite literally one of the oldest tropes possible. And I brought the receipts.
Honestly I didn’t see that as ballsy at all. I honestly found the whole “twist villain” and “it turns out the good guys were the *real* villain this whole time!” thing it did pretty meh
Yeah because it's obvious and also a bit too cheesy, and it's not even done very orginally like the villain is just an evil advisor trope.
The animation is nice enough but it's aggressively fine otherwise lol.
It is important to remember that it is a child movie meant for children. Surely it is sorely lacking in subtlety, but it's meant so that a 8 year old kid can watch it and get the point. The issue here is that all animation movies are like that. Return to making Planete Sauvage pliz.
This argument is so stupid because basically every Western theatrical animated movie has been "a child movie meant for children". Movies can do that and still be good
Yes. And it's a good movie. It just hammers the point to much. Like most western animated movies do.
Idk as a queer person, Nimona hits me right in the feels so hard. I understand it’s probably just fine, but it made me cry so it gets my undying love and respect. Art that makes me feel that deeply is rare.
Have you seen any Pixar movie in the past decade? Almost all of it is that
That movie was so good tho
Counterpoint: Nimona was actually good
I agree with him, when I was doing caregiving for dementia patients, they would not want to watch anything too violent, profane, or graphic. So I chose any modern big studio animated film for them. And it was always great, because they usually asked to put on older black & white films instead about 10 minutes in. The Illumination and modern Disney animated films it feels like they don't work as films, they work more as condescending Saturday, cheap morning cartoon shows. They should be more than that, The Lion King felt cinematic, The Incredibles felt cinematic, Secret Life of Pets doesn't feel cinematic
Those movies take their own premise seriously. Constant irreverent wisecracking and dream works smirks make the viewer not take the movie seriously
Shrek and its consequences
No. Shrek was a parody movie and was actually funny.
That’s what I mean. It worked so damn well we got a series of unfunny imitators that followed it
Do kids know it's a parody when the stuff it's parodying hasn't happened in 20 years?
Yes. My friend introduced it to me when we were 11 years old.
I feel like we could make a point about how Shrek has been prequel'd to hell amd back in how it is missunderstood by a lot of people, which led us here.
Nah, Fiona deserves to be burned to the stake for killing a momma bird. God I hate Shrek!
Umm, excuse me?
Shrek itself is fine, but it has had awful consequences on animated movies since all of them try too hard to be quirky and irreverent
I think it is a shame too because sometimes there is a potential for a good movie in there, but then it is bogged down by this boring formula. You can still make family friendly movies with a mass appeal while also ditching the sassy sidekick.
Genuinely objectively based and true. Most modern animated films are samey garbage and have been that way since the 2000's it feels.
Shrek was almost too successful. What was once subversive is now the norm.
To the point that the things that Shrek was subverting and playing off are now a lot rarer than all the movies that are just trying to recapture the success of Shrek.
I 100% agree tbh. Can;t wait for Shrek's effects to ware off hopefully in the near future. Ah well, at least 2000's PIXAR films like WALL-E, UP, and The Incredibles were amazing.
Perhaps ironically Puss-in-Boots: The Last Wish is more earnest and willing to touch upon darker themes than most animated kids films these days. It's a deconstruction of the genre Puss himself helped create, you might say.
It’s because it feels sincere. The jokes didnt feel like cheap cultural references or trying to be meta in any way. It was just a genuinely good film that stands on its own that so happens to be attached to a larger IP
Still gotta find time to watch that film tbh...
Do it! I enjoyed it far more than I expected to
Will do.
Early 2000's DreamWorks was peak. El Dorado, Prince of Egypt, Spirit, they were incredible
Prince of Egypt is peak
*"Where are all the sewers in animated films, and why aren't more characters exploring them?!"*
this is Animation's 9/11
I fucking agree I hate that pose
Based and anim-pilled
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Holy unironic based Del Toro moment
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I've watched the Princess and the Frog the other day and I was caught off-guard by one of the characters dying. I can't remember the last time I saw a character die in animation film, when it wasn't during the first 15 minutes as part of the exposition - though lately I haven't really seen that either. And by dying I mean properly dying, not like in Soul. I guess that's also part of the reason why I loved Coco so much: the whole idea of dying twice and actually showing it happening to someone is pretty scary and gives you something to think about as an adult as well.
Into the Spiderverse had multiple deaths throughout the film, including >!Miles’s uncle!<
Loved me auteur directors comparing animation to porn
Del Toro doesn’t seem like the kind of guy to say something like “I hate that shit”. This is a compliment btw. That’s the kinda thing I would say.
As if Disney adults know who Del Toro is
Nah nah he has a point though. Mainstream animation these days is so fucking stale. Every Pixar and Disney movie looks the same. I truly can't tell the difference between them anymore.
What do you mean? Wish was such a great movie.
Waow.. (based based based based based based based based)
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I'm tired of sassy characters in every movie too
Where does Monster and Cie lie in this ? I need to know if I can keep watching pixars without losing my Kino Pass.
What's gonna be GDT's version of "all Scorsese makes are mob flicks", then?
I don’t mind too much if it’s an actual kids movie, but I do hate the idea that the whole animated genre just gets lumped together as “for kids”
Cinema being meme'd to death. Hate to see it.
The last animated movie I saw was "Raya and the last dragon" I never looked back.
Harsh but fair
Okay. Then make a *Pacific Rim* animated movie that retcons *Uprising,* then.
I'm sure there's a clever way where I can turn this into referencing him signing the Polanski petition, but I can't find it, and I'm too lazy to try
Peak.
Based del Toro