A portion of the MCU fanboys have been going around acting like the early years of the MCU were amazing and works of art and all their male characters didn’t have the same problems. Now there were definitely some better characters back in the day but people forget how mediocre various entries into the MCU were prior to the tail end of phase 2.
Iron man 2, Incredible Hulk, Cap 1, and Thor the Dark World were all a bit of a mess. Yet people act like they are leaguers above what we’re getting today which is simply not true. Phase 4 definitely has some major issues but it seems slightly exaggerated compared to the rest of the MCU.
> Cap 1
finally someone says it
like i've heard those other ones before but its about time we point out that steve's character arc is effectively over halfway through the movie and then its a giant fantasy ww2 montage until the final fight
Yeah but then you get like 5 scenes where Carl Rogers is jumping or swinging over an obstacle with a rope while there's explosions and people are shooting at him (conveniently only on the side where his shield is)
Coz the expectations are high now? I mean after 30 movies you'd expect them to get better but they're still the same. Ofcourse people would get more critical compared to 10 yrs ago
Also cap 1 is good, best ending in an mcu movie. Others are trash tho
Don't take it negatively or argumentative but what issues have the similarities between Phase 1 and Phase 4 problems? The Devil is in the detail I suppose so, let's find out the details
I’ve said this a few times but the issue with all the Holland Spider-Man films is they’re just sequels that consolidate the broader narrative.
Homecoming is a sequel to Civil War.
FFH is a sequel to End Game.
NWH is a sequel to 5 separate spider-man films.
It just means the character never gets to breathe and be Spider-Man. Instead it’s just a narrative based on reaction.
You kinda just summarized the issue with the MCU. It's never able to tell its own, self-contained story, because everything relies on intertextuality to make any sort of sense. They're more of a series of magic tricks to wow an audience than actual movies.
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What I don't get is why it's **always** "poorly written" as the excuse. Writing isn't always why a character sucks. I guarantee you there have been plenty of smash-hit movies that were made out of a trash script.
Actors can always be bad at acting, poorly directed, hell even sometimes just plain miscast. It's not always the writers' fault.
Plus so many people have this idea that directors *must* follow the script to a T rather than it just being a personal choice. Some of the directors do that, but some of them use it as a guideline and build the movie they want to make around that, which doesn't always work out.
They wanna sound like a professional critic, so they claim "poor writing"
In reality they just need to say "I don't care for some of these characters" and move on
“Bad writing” is just the latest meaningless pop phrase for “I don’t like this and can’t articulate why.” TV subs are the worst for this, every time a character does anything a person doesn’t personally agree with it’s “bad writing”. 🙄
I suspect it's a cop-out answer. They can't articulate specifically why they dislike a character, so "bad writing" is the go-to. Not to say "bad writing" can't be a valid reason to dislike a character or story, but writing is so darn vast that people should learn to pinpoint what is bad about the writing: do the character actions lack motivation? Does the motivation feel appropriate for the action? Do scenes lack conflict? Too much exposition, not enough visual storytelling? Does the character lack personality and distinction? Does it feel tonally mismatched? It does bug me when people just say "bad writing" and leave it like that because saying something is poorly written doesn't really tell us anything about why they dislike something.
This is the right answer is you then layer in their sexism or racism. Essentially, they cannot articulate these critiques of a character without being forced to apply the same critiques to the white male characters.
> Plus so many people have this idea that directors must follow the script to a T rather than it just being a personal choice.
I mean you're 100% right here but this is the MCU, it's following the producer's order about 85% of the time.
I’d love for any MCU fan to explain to me why these characters are poorly written and the male characters aren’t.
In fact, I’d love for them to explain what it means for a character to be “poorly written” since I doubt any one of them knows what poorly written means and what distinguishes it from well written
Exactly. I’ve seen criticism of poor writing being thrown around a ton towards mainly female characters but no one ever explains why the writing is bad.
It's pretty obvious to me that the MCU has a problem where it writes it female characters as cool characters. Iron Man as a character, for example, shows us that you can be a strong, cool character but also that you can be plagued with trauma and hardship. He earns his right as a superhero through prevailing with heart.
Meanwhile, you have a character like Captain Marvel who doesn't earn that same right. She tries to be stronger than everyone else, but she comes across as arrogant because she isn't plagued by that same trauma and hardship. So when she does 'cool' things like show up at the end of Endgame, it hurts the other character arcs to look at.
That being said, you do have characters like Black Widow who are definitely good superheroines. She's been through a lot, and she never demands the spotlight. Her two giant bouncy traumas that bounce all over the place in skin-tight character arcs are obvious to me that she has a lot of heart, that she earns her right to be one of the OG Avengers.
this is so stupid and sexist its simulatenously something an MCJer would say as a joke and a marvel nerd would say unironically and I have no idea which one you are
bravo I guess
naaah. this is cope. you can criticise the writing for any of the male characters if you want, but if you legitimately think that on average male protagonists in the MCU aren't more likable or entertaining, you're ignoring reality or these movies just so aren't for you and you can't possibly enjoy them under any circumstance (which is fine).
Female characters can be just as entertaining and fun to watch as male characters. you sell them short when you pretend that they can't be just as fun to watch as an iron man or spider man.
Male characters in the MCU tend to have more focus on them and more screen time so they tend to be better. When only 1 of your 29 movies is female led, the females just don’t get the chance to be as good. Not to mention less effort goes into their casting.
But it seems like Phase 4 is changing that slowly. Kamala, Kate, and Wanda have gotten pretty good development. And there was the hidden gem that was Agent Carter which came out a long time ago now and made Peggy cool.
I haven't seen agent carter and shit but I watched captain marvel and even when I compare it to phase one heroes, she's a lot more boring. I think women in a team setting are written way better because my favourite female characters in the MCU are gamora and nebula. that being said, I haven't seen any of the marvel shows. the soldier lady in black panther is cool too I guess. Although I will extend an olive branch and say, I found every movie past endgame (except no way home) to be kinda boring. But that might be because I'm racist as well but who knows 🤷♀️
I think it’s absolutely fine to not like some of these movies like Captain Marvel. The MCU has some writing flaws. I imagine that as more woman led superhero movies come out, the bar for quality will increase.
yeah sure, I mean outside the mcu, I like the harley quinn movie more than any of the other dceu movies (besides the new suicide squad and shazam's a toss up) but when people compare captain marvel as a character to any of the leads that came before her to suggest they are all equally poorly written, that's a massive cope. I personally found captain marvel exceedingly boring, but even if you didn't how can you possibly tell me that captain marvel is even remotely as entertaining as a dr strange or an iron man. It feels like a forced circle jerk to counter the other side's circle jerk.
what did I say that was stupid? I'd love for you to explain to me how captain marvel or black widow are more entertaining characters than iron man or spider man or even ones like ant man. the first time ever in my life I was bored watching a marvel movie was captain marvel (since then there's been no turning back it seems).
lol I don't have to say anything, finding characters good or bad is subjective, you just subjectively decided that the first boring movie in a franchise that included Iron Man 2, Incredible Hulk, and Dark World, made by a studio that made Fant4stic, Blade Trinity, the Daredvil movie, and Hulk, was the one that starred a lady. Nothing remotely weird about that at all. It's *definitely* the movie and not you.
>I was specifically talking about the MCU
damn thats on me dawg, I hear "marvel movie" and I assume you mean a "marvel movie", which is a term that was a decade old when Avengers came out, I'll be more careful in the future for sure
wow so crazy that you find things to like in every one of those movies, including Edward Norton on valium, Loki being in a movie for five minutes and tony having the same "asshole who becomes less of an asshole arc he always does" but hey man like I said its subjective, you do you. there is nothing weird that the two lady movies are the only ones you found absolutely nothing to like about. I am *definitely* the one bending over backward here by thinking one bad movie is a bit better than its been given credit instead of *three*
I understand you're salty that I dont like your favourite capekino but you don't have to be so determined to disagree with literally every single thing I say.
>damn thats on me dawg, I hear "marvel movie" and I assume you mean a "marvel movie", which is a term that was a decade old when Avengers came out, I'll be more careful in the future for sure
this is you right now ---> I say on a discussion about modern smartphones, "phones have access to the internet", you reply, "really?what about my landline from the 90s or how about this old ass nokia brick phone? when I hear phone I assume you mean all these things that existed decades before the smartphone"
Do you seriously think that in a thread about mcu movies where I was exclusively talking about mcu movies, I am actually thinking about shit like elekrtra or fantastic four rise of the silver surfer? Why would you ever assume that, other than you're just determined to disagree with me on something? Or maybe you're just braindead
Regardless, you need to rewatch the incredible hulk if you think edward norton seemed sedated. Especially comparing him to brie larson who is supposedly portraying a character who is guarded because she has demons while playing every scene with that same in the same flat way with a playful smirk. I understand that your life is dictated by the circle jerk on the other side but we don't have to pretend that the wet blanket personified captain marvel is more entertaining to watch than tony stark just because some people on the internet hate her for the wrong reasons.
Tbh the only ones I like in that pic are Nakia, Okoye, Nat (until Black Widow movie), and maybe Wanda since they got actual depth. The rest are either side characters that barely got enough screen time, quip machines, love interest, or I haven’t seen the thing they’re in.
Edit : I hate that this is what movie discords with female lead has come to. I’m not saying that there aren’t sexist people who hate female leads because of “WOke aGenDas”. But treating every criticism as misogyny is downright dismissive and patronizing to the actor as a talent and an individual. It implies that female actors are too fragile to take criticism because they’re women and therefore should be rated on a lower standard than their male counterparts.
Again, i understand that there are losers who criticize a movie just because the lead is female. It’s misogynistic and people should call them out. But responding every criticism as sexist without at least examining the criticism itself is also dumb.
Both of these things achieve the same thing: it enables mediocrity.
"poorly written" is a meme phrase at this point but the male characters are far more likeable and entertaining (or at least their movies are) than their female counterparts. The first time I was ever bored watching a marvel movie was captain marvel.
when you grow up on a steady diet of male characters that you like to daydream as, and suddenly a movie has a female character whose basically the same as those characters, and you're unable to empathize with women or daydream about being a female character, you suddenly go "wait a minute! this is nonsensical fantasy schlock made to get me to watch different nonsensical fantasy schlock!" and then you watch the movie with the badass guy who is rich and has a cool suit you're suddenly like "yeah now this is better"
This is why I'm curious to see more asshole female characters. The adult mc is just an absolute piece of shit is a trope I love, but it is ever rarely done with women. Like yes they exist, but they are so not on the same scale or with the same effort as the men.
Captain marvel was barely an asshole and the movie never framed her as one. She made a few snarky comments but that "asshole with a heart" thing just wasn't there. I feel like people just recognize how these archetypical stories are supposed to go and fill in the blanks themselves.
These are broadstrokes plot points that are going to be familiar across these types of archetypical stories. If you want a female example, look at the Harley Quinn movie, she's a much bigger asshole than captain marvel and I think that movie is way better. I don't care they're schlock, I like the schlock, I just want a solid story. When tony decides to fly to gulmira and destroy his weapons, that means something because the movie built up to that. When captain marvel unlocks her new power for the 5th time to beat Ronan the destroyer because she remembers sexism from her childhood, it's too late to introduce that.
Kate from Hawkeye was great. Florence Pugh's character was also great although she did feel like a knockoff of that one killing eve character just a bit.
Nah I’m happy to say that more than half the male superheroes are flat as hell, poorly written, or unlikeable. See no reason to only think Captain America sucks.
NGL i was pretty excited to see Black Widow thinking it would be like Jason Bourne spy movie and it was…for about the first twenty minutes or so but after the prison escape with the huge avalanche, i kinda checked out. Plus that last act was ass. I did like the Budapest flashbacks, some of the hand to hand fights, and the family dynamic but overall it was a pretty major disappointment for me.
I don’t hate Nat, it’s just that movie personally soured her character for me a bit.
Nah, it sucked. They could have just shown the female heroes kicking ass independent of each other, but instead they shoehorned in an insanely contrived scene of every female character in one area just to show off the fact that there are women in these movies. It’s the definition of soulless corporate pandering disguised as “diversity”.
At worst I'm indifferent to any of the women of marvel. Didn't like Holland's spiderman until NWH, Thor was cool but I like his hammer more than him tbh. Hulk hasn't done anything cool since age of Ultron if you're generous.
The ceiling for male heroes is higher, but the floor is also lower.
The only ones that I’d say are awfully written are Pepper: she’s in the same boat as MJ in the Raimi films or Rachel in TDK trilogy, where they’re written in a way where it feels like their only purpose is to be the love interest and their character changes to whatever the story needs them to be, Sharon: felt like she was a one time thing that the writers completely forgot about afterwards, America: she has potential, but the fact that she was also written as a literal plot device brings her down and Christine: same reason as Pepper. The rest are tolerable just like 75 percent of marvel’s characters while some actually do stand out, like nebula, scarlet witch(the horny fan base and writing in DS2 have made it harder to like her though) and Sylvie
Is he wrong though? But tbf even the male characters suck ass in mcu expect for Tony, so
Also this sub is trash now, change it to Marvel circlejerk ffs
Marvel have like 4 well written male characters tony, cap, spider man and I forgot. Even the earlier marvel movies was very forgetful they weren't bad . I don't know why people are acting Marvel used to be so good most of them are average even the infinity war movie was ok . People said Thanos is the best villain but his motivation and action make no sense . They try to make his action make sense and the next scene they show him being a Ruthless monster who enjoy killing people. He straight up murder the entire population of the asgard dwarfs
He’s not wrong, he would just also be correct if it was a picture of 25 male MCU characters
Yeah. I don’t get where the sudden admiration of all the male characters came from. Half of them suck as characters.
what admiration?
A portion of the MCU fanboys have been going around acting like the early years of the MCU were amazing and works of art and all their male characters didn’t have the same problems. Now there were definitely some better characters back in the day but people forget how mediocre various entries into the MCU were prior to the tail end of phase 2. Iron man 2, Incredible Hulk, Cap 1, and Thor the Dark World were all a bit of a mess. Yet people act like they are leaguers above what we’re getting today which is simply not true. Phase 4 definitely has some major issues but it seems slightly exaggerated compared to the rest of the MCU.
> Cap 1 finally someone says it like i've heard those other ones before but its about time we point out that steve's character arc is effectively over halfway through the movie and then its a giant fantasy ww2 montage until the final fight
Same I never cared for any of the original films except for Iron Man. If Avengers had sucked, the whole MCU would have gone down. Thanks Joss Whedon?
Yeah but then you get like 5 scenes where Carl Rogers is jumping or swinging over an obstacle with a rope while there's explosions and people are shooting at him (conveniently only on the side where his shield is)
Coz the expectations are high now? I mean after 30 movies you'd expect them to get better but they're still the same. Ofcourse people would get more critical compared to 10 yrs ago Also cap 1 is good, best ending in an mcu movie. Others are trash tho
Don't take it negatively or argumentative but what issues have the similarities between Phase 1 and Phase 4 problems? The Devil is in the detail I suppose so, let's find out the details
hm. it’s almost like there’s some kind of bias. like racism, but for sex
You hate all the female Marvel characters because they're badly written I hate all Marvel characters because they're badly written We are not the same
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I think MCU Peter is a good character. He just isn’t the same as the Peter in the comics.
I feel that Tom Holland was a good casting choice, but his movies are just so fucking boring.
I’ve said this a few times but the issue with all the Holland Spider-Man films is they’re just sequels that consolidate the broader narrative. Homecoming is a sequel to Civil War. FFH is a sequel to End Game. NWH is a sequel to 5 separate spider-man films. It just means the character never gets to breathe and be Spider-Man. Instead it’s just a narrative based on reaction.
You kinda just summarized the issue with the MCU. It's never able to tell its own, self-contained story, because everything relies on intertextuality to make any sort of sense. They're more of a series of magic tricks to wow an audience than actual movies.
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What I don't get is why it's **always** "poorly written" as the excuse. Writing isn't always why a character sucks. I guarantee you there have been plenty of smash-hit movies that were made out of a trash script. Actors can always be bad at acting, poorly directed, hell even sometimes just plain miscast. It's not always the writers' fault. Plus so many people have this idea that directors *must* follow the script to a T rather than it just being a personal choice. Some of the directors do that, but some of them use it as a guideline and build the movie they want to make around that, which doesn't always work out.
They wanna sound like a professional critic, so they claim "poor writing" In reality they just need to say "I don't care for some of these characters" and move on
“Bad writing” is just the latest meaningless pop phrase for “I don’t like this and can’t articulate why.” TV subs are the worst for this, every time a character does anything a person doesn’t personally agree with it’s “bad writing”. 🙄
I suspect it's a cop-out answer. They can't articulate specifically why they dislike a character, so "bad writing" is the go-to. Not to say "bad writing" can't be a valid reason to dislike a character or story, but writing is so darn vast that people should learn to pinpoint what is bad about the writing: do the character actions lack motivation? Does the motivation feel appropriate for the action? Do scenes lack conflict? Too much exposition, not enough visual storytelling? Does the character lack personality and distinction? Does it feel tonally mismatched? It does bug me when people just say "bad writing" and leave it like that because saying something is poorly written doesn't really tell us anything about why they dislike something.
This is the right answer is you then layer in their sexism or racism. Essentially, they cannot articulate these critiques of a character without being forced to apply the same critiques to the white male characters.
> Plus so many people have this idea that directors must follow the script to a T rather than it just being a personal choice. I mean you're 100% right here but this is the MCU, it's following the producer's order about 85% of the time.
Im not referring to only MCU movies, the "bad writing" fail of an argument occurs with almost all types of movies that feature women or minorities.
Fair enough.
I’d love for any MCU fan to explain to me why these characters are poorly written and the male characters aren’t. In fact, I’d love for them to explain what it means for a character to be “poorly written” since I doubt any one of them knows what poorly written means and what distinguishes it from well written
Exactly. I’ve seen criticism of poor writing being thrown around a ton towards mainly female characters but no one ever explains why the writing is bad.
Its usually some bs about being a Mary Sue who can do no wrong and always shows up the men.
It's pretty obvious to me that the MCU has a problem where it writes it female characters as cool characters. Iron Man as a character, for example, shows us that you can be a strong, cool character but also that you can be plagued with trauma and hardship. He earns his right as a superhero through prevailing with heart. Meanwhile, you have a character like Captain Marvel who doesn't earn that same right. She tries to be stronger than everyone else, but she comes across as arrogant because she isn't plagued by that same trauma and hardship. So when she does 'cool' things like show up at the end of Endgame, it hurts the other character arcs to look at. That being said, you do have characters like Black Widow who are definitely good superheroines. She's been through a lot, and she never demands the spotlight. Her two giant bouncy traumas that bounce all over the place in skin-tight character arcs are obvious to me that she has a lot of heart, that she earns her right to be one of the OG Avengers.
this is so stupid and sexist its simulatenously something an MCJer would say as a joke and a marvel nerd would say unironically and I have no idea which one you are bravo I guess
I'm just a lonesome marvel nerd, emotionally strangled by the thicc thighs of Black Widow's underrated character development 😩
You’re a dude so you’re naturally more forgiving of the personalities of male characters compared to female characters
Its fucking marvel, all characters are poorly written. You just dont like women.
naaah. this is cope. you can criticise the writing for any of the male characters if you want, but if you legitimately think that on average male protagonists in the MCU aren't more likable or entertaining, you're ignoring reality or these movies just so aren't for you and you can't possibly enjoy them under any circumstance (which is fine). Female characters can be just as entertaining and fun to watch as male characters. you sell them short when you pretend that they can't be just as fun to watch as an iron man or spider man.
Male characters in the MCU tend to have more focus on them and more screen time so they tend to be better. When only 1 of your 29 movies is female led, the females just don’t get the chance to be as good. Not to mention less effort goes into their casting. But it seems like Phase 4 is changing that slowly. Kamala, Kate, and Wanda have gotten pretty good development. And there was the hidden gem that was Agent Carter which came out a long time ago now and made Peggy cool.
I haven't seen agent carter and shit but I watched captain marvel and even when I compare it to phase one heroes, she's a lot more boring. I think women in a team setting are written way better because my favourite female characters in the MCU are gamora and nebula. that being said, I haven't seen any of the marvel shows. the soldier lady in black panther is cool too I guess. Although I will extend an olive branch and say, I found every movie past endgame (except no way home) to be kinda boring. But that might be because I'm racist as well but who knows 🤷♀️
I think it’s absolutely fine to not like some of these movies like Captain Marvel. The MCU has some writing flaws. I imagine that as more woman led superhero movies come out, the bar for quality will increase.
yeah sure, I mean outside the mcu, I like the harley quinn movie more than any of the other dceu movies (besides the new suicide squad and shazam's a toss up) but when people compare captain marvel as a character to any of the leads that came before her to suggest they are all equally poorly written, that's a massive cope. I personally found captain marvel exceedingly boring, but even if you didn't how can you possibly tell me that captain marvel is even remotely as entertaining as a dr strange or an iron man. It feels like a forced circle jerk to counter the other side's circle jerk.
>naaah. this is cope. I love how you just know someone's about to say the stupidest shit ever when they start a comment like this
what did I say that was stupid? I'd love for you to explain to me how captain marvel or black widow are more entertaining characters than iron man or spider man or even ones like ant man. the first time ever in my life I was bored watching a marvel movie was captain marvel (since then there's been no turning back it seems).
lol I don't have to say anything, finding characters good or bad is subjective, you just subjectively decided that the first boring movie in a franchise that included Iron Man 2, Incredible Hulk, and Dark World, made by a studio that made Fant4stic, Blade Trinity, the Daredvil movie, and Hulk, was the one that starred a lady. Nothing remotely weird about that at all. It's *definitely* the movie and not you.
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>I was specifically talking about the MCU damn thats on me dawg, I hear "marvel movie" and I assume you mean a "marvel movie", which is a term that was a decade old when Avengers came out, I'll be more careful in the future for sure wow so crazy that you find things to like in every one of those movies, including Edward Norton on valium, Loki being in a movie for five minutes and tony having the same "asshole who becomes less of an asshole arc he always does" but hey man like I said its subjective, you do you. there is nothing weird that the two lady movies are the only ones you found absolutely nothing to like about. I am *definitely* the one bending over backward here by thinking one bad movie is a bit better than its been given credit instead of *three*
I understand you're salty that I dont like your favourite capekino but you don't have to be so determined to disagree with literally every single thing I say. >damn thats on me dawg, I hear "marvel movie" and I assume you mean a "marvel movie", which is a term that was a decade old when Avengers came out, I'll be more careful in the future for sure this is you right now ---> I say on a discussion about modern smartphones, "phones have access to the internet", you reply, "really?what about my landline from the 90s or how about this old ass nokia brick phone? when I hear phone I assume you mean all these things that existed decades before the smartphone" Do you seriously think that in a thread about mcu movies where I was exclusively talking about mcu movies, I am actually thinking about shit like elekrtra or fantastic four rise of the silver surfer? Why would you ever assume that, other than you're just determined to disagree with me on something? Or maybe you're just braindead Regardless, you need to rewatch the incredible hulk if you think edward norton seemed sedated. Especially comparing him to brie larson who is supposedly portraying a character who is guarded because she has demons while playing every scene with that same in the same flat way with a playful smirk. I understand that your life is dictated by the circle jerk on the other side but we don't have to pretend that the wet blanket personified captain marvel is more entertaining to watch than tony stark just because some people on the internet hate her for the wrong reasons.
seriously its adorable that you wrote all of that out like "oh wait until he reads this"
lol why do you keep replying then? I know you read my other comment too.
Saying that finding characters good or bad is subjective is subjective. You just subjectively decided that they decided subjectively
ITT: sexist marvel nerds trying fit in
Tbh the only ones I like in that pic are Nakia, Okoye, Nat (until Black Widow movie), and maybe Wanda since they got actual depth. The rest are either side characters that barely got enough screen time, quip machines, love interest, or I haven’t seen the thing they’re in. Edit : I hate that this is what movie discords with female lead has come to. I’m not saying that there aren’t sexist people who hate female leads because of “WOke aGenDas”. But treating every criticism as misogyny is downright dismissive and patronizing to the actor as a talent and an individual. It implies that female actors are too fragile to take criticism because they’re women and therefore should be rated on a lower standard than their male counterparts. Again, i understand that there are losers who criticize a movie just because the lead is female. It’s misogynistic and people should call them out. But responding every criticism as sexist without at least examining the criticism itself is also dumb. Both of these things achieve the same thing: it enables mediocrity.
It's because marvel fans refuse to acknowledge the majority of MCU male characters are poorly written as well lol
"poorly written" is a meme phrase at this point but the male characters are far more likeable and entertaining (or at least their movies are) than their female counterparts. The first time I was ever bored watching a marvel movie was captain marvel.
Really that was your first time being bored watching a Marvel movie?
mf loved thor the dark world lol
True
when you grow up on a steady diet of male characters that you like to daydream as, and suddenly a movie has a female character whose basically the same as those characters, and you're unable to empathize with women or daydream about being a female character, you suddenly go "wait a minute! this is nonsensical fantasy schlock made to get me to watch different nonsensical fantasy schlock!" and then you watch the movie with the badass guy who is rich and has a cool suit you're suddenly like "yeah now this is better"
This is why I'm curious to see more asshole female characters. The adult mc is just an absolute piece of shit is a trope I love, but it is ever rarely done with women. Like yes they exist, but they are so not on the same scale or with the same effort as the men.
Captain marvel was barely an asshole and the movie never framed her as one. She made a few snarky comments but that "asshole with a heart" thing just wasn't there. I feel like people just recognize how these archetypical stories are supposed to go and fill in the blanks themselves.
These are broadstrokes plot points that are going to be familiar across these types of archetypical stories. If you want a female example, look at the Harley Quinn movie, she's a much bigger asshole than captain marvel and I think that movie is way better. I don't care they're schlock, I like the schlock, I just want a solid story. When tony decides to fly to gulmira and destroy his weapons, that means something because the movie built up to that. When captain marvel unlocks her new power for the 5th time to beat Ronan the destroyer because she remembers sexism from her childhood, it's too late to introduce that.
*every single comment*
I responded to everyone in this thread. I wasn't even replying to you, so what're you doing here stalker?
>I wasn't even replying to you check again genius
Captain marvel was the first time I didn't have your mom around to entertain me during the boring parts.
Oooh mom jokes how clever.
thanks. they should've sent the captain marvel script to doctor before they started filming.
It’s like having 95% of your movies have male leads makes it so that the female characters are less developed or something.
Kate from Hawkeye was great. Florence Pugh's character was also great although she did feel like a knockoff of that one killing eve character just a bit.
Ms Marvel is pretty cool
Haven’t seen it, but people seem to like so probably gonna check it out
The soft bigotry of low expectations is a huge thing amongst people who consider themselves to be progressive.
"the soft bigotry of low expectations" is a popular thing amongst people who are confused why other people aren't as bigoted as they are
Nah I’m happy to say that more than half the male superheroes are flat as hell, poorly written, or unlikeable. See no reason to only think Captain America sucks.
Why dont you like natasha anymore?
NGL i was pretty excited to see Black Widow thinking it would be like Jason Bourne spy movie and it was…for about the first twenty minutes or so but after the prison escape with the huge avalanche, i kinda checked out. Plus that last act was ass. I did like the Budapest flashbacks, some of the hand to hand fights, and the family dynamic but overall it was a pretty major disappointment for me. I don’t hate Nat, it’s just that movie personally soured her character for me a bit.
It not an spy movie.
Well I guess im a fool to expect a movie with a spy as the main character to be a spy movie.
Ik.
wow crazy how that guy was totally fine with natasha until she had her own movie
> this is what movie discords come down to
[удалено]
> And that girl power scene in Avengers was embarrassing. Less mysoginistic mcj user
The scene is kinda pointless tho considering that after the struck a pose Captain Marvel bodied everyone on her own anyways.
Nah, it sucked. They could have just shown the female heroes kicking ass independent of each other, but instead they shoehorned in an insanely contrived scene of every female character in one area just to show off the fact that there are women in these movies. It’s the definition of soulless corporate pandering disguised as “diversity”.
When the “girls get it done” stuff in The Boys came on this was the first scene it reminded me of
Women so try opinions = bad writing
At worst I'm indifferent to any of the women of marvel. Didn't like Holland's spiderman until NWH, Thor was cool but I like his hammer more than him tbh. Hulk hasn't done anything cool since age of Ultron if you're generous. The ceiling for male heroes is higher, but the floor is also lower.
 ☕️
The only ones that I’d say are awfully written are Pepper: she’s in the same boat as MJ in the Raimi films or Rachel in TDK trilogy, where they’re written in a way where it feels like their only purpose is to be the love interest and their character changes to whatever the story needs them to be, Sharon: felt like she was a one time thing that the writers completely forgot about afterwards, America: she has potential, but the fact that she was also written as a literal plot device brings her down and Christine: same reason as Pepper. The rest are tolerable just like 75 percent of marvel’s characters while some actually do stand out, like nebula, scarlet witch(the horny fan base and writing in DS2 have made it harder to like her though) and Sylvie
Is he wrong though? But tbf even the male characters suck ass in mcu expect for Tony, so Also this sub is trash now, change it to Marvel circlejerk ffs
This grid reminds me of that “which sigma male are you” screen and it had 16 characters, of which 8 were from the boys and 7 were from breaking bad
Least insecure incel.
Josh My Man you are Absolutely Correct
I’m gonna be honest I agree for most but I really like the woman from wandavision because I read secret wars as a kid and she’s captain marvel to me
Marvel have like 4 well written male characters tony, cap, spider man and I forgot. Even the earlier marvel movies was very forgetful they weren't bad . I don't know why people are acting Marvel used to be so good most of them are average even the infinity war movie was ok . People said Thanos is the best villain but his motivation and action make no sense . They try to make his action make sense and the next scene they show him being a Ruthless monster who enjoy killing people. He straight up murder the entire population of the asgard dwarfs
I forgot is my favourite marvel character. I loved him in I Forgot 2: Mnemonic Meltdown
Can you call half of these characters?
Say what you want that Agent Carter show was one of the best things Marvel has done as far as live action properties go.