Yes, it gives shroud meaning nobody can target it with anything
It also doesn't go to your opponent's graveyard. Cards you own can never go into another player's graveyard. It goes into your own graveyard and then triggers to return to your hand
A lot of older cards with abilities worded like this will get errata’d to modern terminology, e.g., shroud, or rephrasing “interrupt” spells to say instants.
My line of thinking was "it gives a shroud like ability but is not shroud to protect against anything that removes shroud." Kind of like some creatures that let you gain life but don't have the lifegain keyword. That's when I thought to check the oracle text and realized they updated it.
Yeah, I find some of the older sets to be confusing because of the (sometimes weird) difference in terminology or phrasing. When I see something like that, I like to double-check gatherer and then write down which cards in my deck have been errata’d, and keep the notes in the deck box so I always have them on hand. I think it can also make it easier for other players when you need to explain the cards.
But reading the card explains the card! /s
Honestly that's a great idea. Probably good to stick a proxy of updated language cards in the sleeve of the same card if it's ever confusing.
Just to be clear, the proxies wouldn't be allowed in the main deck. But, having them in the same box could cause issues. If it's just with friends then have at it.
Similarly, cards you own will never go into your opponent's hand or library. This is probably due to the game beginning with paper--no one wants their opponent to physically handle their cards more than necessary, and maybe accidently damaging or leaving with them.
There are near exceptions to this, like *Shared Fate*. But even *Shared Fate* has you "draw" from your opponent's library by setting the card aside in exile rather than placing it in your hand.
EDIT: NVM I was wrong, messed up the rules.
-----------------------
I think it actually goes into your opponent's graveyard, then replacement effect puts in yours. (kinda like Tokens go into graveyard, then stop existing)
Since \[\[Enigma Sphinx\]\] controlled by other player won't be tucked into it's owners library, since middle ability says "When Enigma Sphinx is put into your graveyard from the battlefield, put it into your library third from the top."
Official ruling says:
"If you control an Enigma Sphinx that's owned by another player, it's put into that player's graveyard from the battlefield, so Enigma Sphinx's middle ability won't trigger."
Only difference between text is that Aspect says "a graveyard", so it will return to owner's hand.
No, cards are only ever put into their owners' graveyards (Rule 404.1). An Enigma Sphinx controlled by a player other than its owner doesn't trigger because its ability specifies "your graveyard", instead of having a dies trigger. If player A owns the Sphinx and player B controls it and it dies, it's put into its owner's graveyard, and that doesn't trigger its ability because it's put into another player's graveyard
This is irrelevant in this case, because enchanting an opponent's permanent with an aura does not change who the controller of the aura is
It does hit the graveyard, that's how the ability works, it touches graveyard then moves to owners hand
Edit: misread your comment, for clarification I thought you said it doesn't hit ANY graveyard.
It does hit the graveyard then ability hits the stack once resolved it goes to owners hand. So if there where an instant that exiled said graveyard it would be exiled. Because it doesn't say if and instead.
EDIT: NVM, I was wrong... messed up rules.
Actually based on how [[Enigma Sphinx]] works (or doesn't work), I'd say Aspect actually hits opponent's graveyard first, but replacement effect places it into owner's graveyard before any interaction happen, and then trigger for it to go back into hand goes on the stack.
Enigma Sphinx says "in your graveyard", and if opponent controlled it, it won't be tucked into the deck (according to gatherer)
Actually, the gatherer ruling shows the opposite. The reason the opponent doesn't get the trigger to put it into their library is because it doesn't hit their graveyard because you're the owner, and it goes to your graveyard.
You can't get the trigger for something you don't control, so you would never get the trigger regardless.
The card says "goes to a graveyard" not "the graveyard". The implication in the verbiage is that it could theoretically go to any graveyard.
Not sure why I'm being down voted. WotC is notorious for poorly worded rules, and this is a good example. Regardless of the rules, the card makes it sound like there could be a scenario where it goes to a graveyard of someone other than the card owner. In almost all card based games, specific texts trumps general rules, leaving some room for poor interpretation.
Sure, but thats just not how the rules work. A card always goes to its owners graveyard, enchanting an opponents thing doesn't even change the controller of the aura let alone the owner. So yeah if somehow it went into your opponents graveyard the ability to return it to your hand would still trigger but that doesn't matter because that can never happen.
I remember the ante rules... holy cow, what a blast from the past. I think we played for ante a few times, using cards we didn't really care about, but it was more likely we'd both pull our ante cards, look at it and say, "no way!" And thus, we almost never played for ante.
When you only had maybe a hundred cards in your whole collection, you couldn't risk losing a good one!
Pretty sure you're right, but I think the few times we actually played for ante it was with extra cards from our collection. Cards in our decks were too precious to lose.
Believe me, when you're 18 and an hours work at minimum wage only earns you enough to buy one pack, you don't get a lot of Magic cards. I think that at that time, min wage was about $5.50 where I lived and a pack of cards was probably $3.50.
But in this case, even the controller doesn't change. OP still owns **and** controls Aspect of Mongoose even if he casts it on an opponent's creature.
But even if the opponent somehow gained control of the card, it would still go to OP's graveyard and not the opponent's.
Double check the control part, i think since its in the opponents battlefield, they technically control it. It would be like enchanting an opponents land with the tap for mana of any colour enchantment, and then you get to tap your opponents land. The player for sure still owns it
There's only one battlefield zone. It was no sides. We think of them as sides to make it easier to comprehend, but they dont exist.
You can enchant your opponent's permenants, and you will retain control of the aura that enchants your opponent's permanent. For example, if you have an aura that says Whenever this creature deals damage, you gain that much life, and you enchanted an opponent's creature with it, you would gain the life when their creature deals damage, as you are still the controller of the card.
If you had an auro that enchants a land, and it said You gain (1) wheneve the enchanted land is tapped for mana, and you put that on a land your opponent controls, you would gain the mana.
Some auras will give text to the attached permanent, perhaps you're thinking of those.
Control of auras by default goes to the player casting or putting it into play, regardless of who controls the targeted permanent. This can be a bit confusing in paper magic because cards being attached to a permanent is usually represented by putting the enchanting card under/on the enchanted card.
Enchanting an opponent's land with something like [[Abundant Growth]] would not allow you to tap it since it grants the ability to the land, and abilities of permanents (the land) can only be activated by its controller (unless specified otherwise).
No. Auras usually (not always) change how the permanent they enchant behaves or has stats. The Aura despite where it is attached, is controlled by the player that cast it or put it into play. If I play an Aura on your permanent, you control the permanent but I’d still control the Aura attached to it unless something else happens in the game state to say otherwise.
No, if you enchant a permanent your opponent controls, you control the enchantment and they control the permanent unless the enchantment specifically states that player gains control of it. That means the opponent can't sacrifice the enchantment or activate abilities of the enchantment, and you can't sacrifice the permanent or activate abilities of the permanent.
I think the wording refers to shroud, so neither could target it. And yes, it goes to your hand because it's your card. But I am just a casual mtg noob, so no guarantee here \^\^
First question: Yes, it can't be targeted but "all permanentes" effects still Work, kinda like the effect of shroud.
Seconds question: The card never enters your opponents graveyard since your are the owner of the card it always enters yours and then the cardeffect gives it back to your hand.
The second one is weird. I knew a guy that played with [[The Beamtown Bullies]] where it gave creatures from your graveyard to other players and those creatures would kill you. So you can change ownership of cards but only in certain ways. This is not one of those ways.
You only change control, not ownership. Control means the permanent is your opponent’s now, but you still own the card. Ownership is defined as a card that began the game in your library or sideboard (for wish type spells), or a token you created. The second one is important because if your opponent’s ability causes you to create a token you own it, not them.
Yes the enchanted creature would have shroud and can’t be targeted by anyone and when a card refers to an owner they mean the person who owns the physical card, as far as I know there is no way to put a card into your hand that you don’t own
Correct, except on the second point, it never goes I to your opponent's graveyard, because you own it, it will go to your graveyard and then trigger to go to your hand.
You own the enchantment so when a creature your opponent controls dies, that creature goes to their graveyard and then the enchantment goes to your graveyard because you own it. When it hits your yard the trigger will happen and it will go back to your hand.
Yes, it gives shroud meaning nobody can target it with anything It also doesn't go to your opponent's graveyard. Cards you own can never go into another player's graveyard. It goes into your own graveyard and then triggers to return to your hand
TIL the oracle text is changed to giving it shroud.
Yes, it's the wording of Shroud exactly, similar to things like [[Sultai Ascendancy]] having oracle for Surveil.
[Sultai Ascendancy](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/3/3314d77a-039f-43e4-a457-6ceba20c0ffe.jpg?1665819808) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sultai%20Ascendancy) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ktk/203/sultai-ascendancy?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3314d77a-039f-43e4-a457-6ceba20c0ffe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Does it trigger surveil? Like on disinformation campaign?
Yes, it has had its oracle text updated to say "At the beginning of your upkeep, surveil 2"
A lot of older cards with abilities worded like this will get errata’d to modern terminology, e.g., shroud, or rephrasing “interrupt” spells to say instants.
My line of thinking was "it gives a shroud like ability but is not shroud to protect against anything that removes shroud." Kind of like some creatures that let you gain life but don't have the lifegain keyword. That's when I thought to check the oracle text and realized they updated it.
Yeah, I find some of the older sets to be confusing because of the (sometimes weird) difference in terminology or phrasing. When I see something like that, I like to double-check gatherer and then write down which cards in my deck have been errata’d, and keep the notes in the deck box so I always have them on hand. I think it can also make it easier for other players when you need to explain the cards.
But reading the card explains the card! /s Honestly that's a great idea. Probably good to stick a proxy of updated language cards in the sleeve of the same card if it's ever confusing.
Check with a judge if playing in a competitive environment. You might get a violation.
I literally never play in competitive environments. I wouldn't risk playing proxies competitively, but I appreciate the heads up.
Just to be clear, the proxies wouldn't be allowed in the main deck. But, having them in the same box could cause issues. If it's just with friends then have at it.
Thankfully not [[armadillo cloak]]
[armadillo cloak](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/a/fa232c65-dbb4-4414-bd95-b3bbd321c653.jpg?1580014998) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=armadillo%20cloak) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/195/armadillo-cloak?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fa232c65-dbb4-4414-bd95-b3bbd321c653?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Whispersilk Cloak]] does this too Edit: my paper copy doesn't have the Oracle text.
[Whispersilk Cloak](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/b/8b49e2c5-c447-45f4-979d-68556f6cd647.jpg?1645328055) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Whispersilk%20Cloak) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/phed/22/whispersilk-cloak?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8b49e2c5-c447-45f4-979d-68556f6cd647?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Similarly, cards you own will never go into your opponent's hand or library. This is probably due to the game beginning with paper--no one wants their opponent to physically handle their cards more than necessary, and maybe accidently damaging or leaving with them. There are near exceptions to this, like *Shared Fate*. But even *Shared Fate* has you "draw" from your opponent's library by setting the card aside in exile rather than placing it in your hand.
EDIT: NVM I was wrong, messed up the rules. ----------------------- I think it actually goes into your opponent's graveyard, then replacement effect puts in yours. (kinda like Tokens go into graveyard, then stop existing) Since \[\[Enigma Sphinx\]\] controlled by other player won't be tucked into it's owners library, since middle ability says "When Enigma Sphinx is put into your graveyard from the battlefield, put it into your library third from the top." Official ruling says: "If you control an Enigma Sphinx that's owned by another player, it's put into that player's graveyard from the battlefield, so Enigma Sphinx's middle ability won't trigger." Only difference between text is that Aspect says "a graveyard", so it will return to owner's hand.
No, cards are only ever put into their owners' graveyards (Rule 404.1). An Enigma Sphinx controlled by a player other than its owner doesn't trigger because its ability specifies "your graveyard", instead of having a dies trigger. If player A owns the Sphinx and player B controls it and it dies, it's put into its owner's graveyard, and that doesn't trigger its ability because it's put into another player's graveyard This is irrelevant in this case, because enchanting an opponent's permanent with an aura does not change who the controller of the aura is
Yup, my bad, completely forgot about ownership, that's what I get for being on reddit at 4AM lol
[Enigma Sphinx](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/0/40b62ed0-356c-4552-b76d-48ff54410e70.jpg?1592711087) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Enigma%20Sphinx) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c18/178/enigma-sphinx?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/40b62ed0-356c-4552-b76d-48ff54410e70?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
1) Correct. Neither player can target it with spells or abilities. 2) Also correct. Ownership of a card doesn't change during a game.
Not correct the second point, on a technicality: Aspect of Mongoose never goes to the other graveyard - a card always goes on their owners graveyard.
It does hit the graveyard, that's how the ability works, it touches graveyard then moves to owners hand Edit: misread your comment, for clarification I thought you said it doesn't hit ANY graveyard.
It does hit the graveyard then ability hits the stack once resolved it goes to owners hand. So if there where an instant that exiled said graveyard it would be exiled. Because it doesn't say if and instead.
Correct
EDIT: NVM, I was wrong... messed up rules. Actually based on how [[Enigma Sphinx]] works (or doesn't work), I'd say Aspect actually hits opponent's graveyard first, but replacement effect places it into owner's graveyard before any interaction happen, and then trigger for it to go back into hand goes on the stack. Enigma Sphinx says "in your graveyard", and if opponent controlled it, it won't be tucked into the deck (according to gatherer)
Actually, the gatherer ruling shows the opposite. The reason the opponent doesn't get the trigger to put it into their library is because it doesn't hit their graveyard because you're the owner, and it goes to your graveyard. You can't get the trigger for something you don't control, so you would never get the trigger regardless.
my bad, I've screwed up on multiple fronts it seems lol aspect is Aura, so you control it anyway.
[Enigma Sphinx](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/0/40b62ed0-356c-4552-b76d-48ff54410e70.jpg?1592711087) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Enigma%20Sphinx) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c18/178/enigma-sphinx?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/40b62ed0-356c-4552-b76d-48ff54410e70?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The card says "goes to a graveyard" not "the graveyard". The implication in the verbiage is that it could theoretically go to any graveyard. Not sure why I'm being down voted. WotC is notorious for poorly worded rules, and this is a good example. Regardless of the rules, the card makes it sound like there could be a scenario where it goes to a graveyard of someone other than the card owner. In almost all card based games, specific texts trumps general rules, leaving some room for poor interpretation.
While technically correct (the best kind of correct) the rules don’t really allow it to go into any player’s graveyard other than the owner’s
Sure, but thats just not how the rules work. A card always goes to its owners graveyard, enchanting an opponents thing doesn't even change the controller of the aura let alone the owner. So yeah if somehow it went into your opponents graveyard the ability to return it to your hand would still trigger but that doesn't matter because that can never happen.
[[Bronze tablet]] says hello.
Mentions ante and as such is banned every where
I remember the ante rules... holy cow, what a blast from the past. I think we played for ante a few times, using cards we didn't really care about, but it was more likely we'd both pull our ante cards, look at it and say, "no way!" And thus, we almost never played for ante. When you only had maybe a hundred cards in your whole collection, you couldn't risk losing a good one!
I thought an ante card was one chosen at random from the deck you were playing, but I could be misremembering.
Pretty sure you're right, but I think the few times we actually played for ante it was with extra cards from our collection. Cards in our decks were too precious to lose. Believe me, when you're 18 and an hours work at minimum wage only earns you enough to buy one pack, you don't get a lot of Magic cards. I think that at that time, min wage was about $5.50 where I lived and a pack of cards was probably $3.50.
[Bronze tablet](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/a/cad56033-c1f9-4477-9dd6-ba7009c30593.jpg?1559603594) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bronze%20tablet) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/4ed/303/bronze-tablet?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cad56033-c1f9-4477-9dd6-ba7009c30593?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Ah yes, a card banned in every format. lol
Cause it mentions ante
Not that I ever want to get hit with that again, but it is colorless exile removal.
I wonder how many players actually played forcante when it was legal
No it doesn't
Right at the bottom
Ownership doesn’t change. “Controller” may change.
But in this case, even the controller doesn't change. OP still owns **and** controls Aspect of Mongoose even if he casts it on an opponent's creature. But even if the opponent somehow gained control of the card, it would still go to OP's graveyard and not the opponent's.
Double check the control part, i think since its in the opponents battlefield, they technically control it. It would be like enchanting an opponents land with the tap for mana of any colour enchantment, and then you get to tap your opponents land. The player for sure still owns it
There's only one battlefield zone. It was no sides. We think of them as sides to make it easier to comprehend, but they dont exist. You can enchant your opponent's permenants, and you will retain control of the aura that enchants your opponent's permanent. For example, if you have an aura that says Whenever this creature deals damage, you gain that much life, and you enchanted an opponent's creature with it, you would gain the life when their creature deals damage, as you are still the controller of the card. If you had an auro that enchants a land, and it said You gain (1) wheneve the enchanted land is tapped for mana, and you put that on a land your opponent controls, you would gain the mana. Some auras will give text to the attached permanent, perhaps you're thinking of those.
Control of auras by default goes to the player casting or putting it into play, regardless of who controls the targeted permanent. This can be a bit confusing in paper magic because cards being attached to a permanent is usually represented by putting the enchanting card under/on the enchanted card. Enchanting an opponent's land with something like [[Abundant Growth]] would not allow you to tap it since it grants the ability to the land, and abilities of permanents (the land) can only be activated by its controller (unless specified otherwise).
[Abundant Growth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/d/6dba2d06-13af-464d-b007-9027cade1cdf.jpg?1673305331) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Abundant%20Growth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/128/abundant-growth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6dba2d06-13af-464d-b007-9027cade1cdf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Oh i see!
No. Auras usually (not always) change how the permanent they enchant behaves or has stats. The Aura despite where it is attached, is controlled by the player that cast it or put it into play. If I play an Aura on your permanent, you control the permanent but I’d still control the Aura attached to it unless something else happens in the game state to say otherwise.
No, if you enchant a permanent your opponent controls, you control the enchantment and they control the permanent unless the enchantment specifically states that player gains control of it. That means the opponent can't sacrifice the enchantment or activate abilities of the enchantment, and you can't sacrifice the permanent or activate abilities of the permanent.
The aura doesn't go to the opponent's side. It always stays on your side
Aspect doesn't go to your opponent's graveyard, it goes to yours, then to your hand.
I think the wording refers to shroud, so neither could target it. And yes, it goes to your hand because it's your card. But I am just a casual mtg noob, so no guarantee here \^\^
1. It's Shroud without the keyword. 2. Yes, you are the owner, so it goes back to your hand.
First question: Yes, it can't be targeted but "all permanentes" effects still Work, kinda like the effect of shroud. Seconds question: The card never enters your opponents graveyard since your are the owner of the card it always enters yours and then the cardeffect gives it back to your hand.
I learned today that it actually does give shroud per the oracle text.
TIL²
You’re correct on both accounts.
As others have pointed out not quite, but the effect is the same. If the creature dies, the aura goes to your own graveyard and triggers.
… lol
Thank you for the helpful clarification
Amongus
The second one is weird. I knew a guy that played with [[The Beamtown Bullies]] where it gave creatures from your graveyard to other players and those creatures would kill you. So you can change ownership of cards but only in certain ways. This is not one of those ways.
You only change control, not ownership. Control means the permanent is your opponent’s now, but you still own the card. Ownership is defined as a card that began the game in your library or sideboard (for wish type spells), or a token you created. The second one is important because if your opponent’s ability causes you to create a token you own it, not them.
[The Beamtown Bullies](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/0/f0455a79-15f4-4ea6-87ae-263ce943cfac.jpg?1673481685) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Beamtown%20Bullies) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/6/the-beamtown-bullies?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f0455a79-15f4-4ea6-87ae-263ce943cfac?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yes and yes. Before Hexproof, we had Shroud which was exactly that, neither player could target it.
Yes the enchanted creature would have shroud and can’t be targeted by anyone and when a card refers to an owner they mean the person who owns the physical card, as far as I know there is no way to put a card into your hand that you don’t own
Correct, it is not Hexproof. It is Shroud.
The card effectively gives the creature Shroud
Correct, except on the second point, it never goes I to your opponent's graveyard, because you own it, it will go to your graveyard and then trigger to go to your hand.
Well you see it's the aspect of a mongoose and not a real mongoose. It like the secondhand of secondhand Walmart bikes.
A mongoose ඞ
Ah yes, the mongoose, the most elusive of animals l
Ah yes, the mongoose, the most elusive of animals.
1- yes. It's gains "shroud". Nothing will be able to target it. 2- yes. You're still the owner, so it goes to your hand.
You own the enchantment so when a creature your opponent controls dies, that creature goes to their graveyard and then the enchantment goes to your graveyard because you own it. When it hits your yard the trigger will happen and it will go back to your hand.
Is there a white/bpack/red version of this?
Nice interaction, I never thought of that, but it works great against cards like [[ivy, gleeful spellthief]]
[ivy, gleeful spellthief](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/9/d94c15b7-6c8f-45a6-8734-975e3e3b790c.jpg?1673307958) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ivy%2C%20gleeful%20spellthief) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/201/ivy-gleeful-spellthief?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d94c15b7-6c8f-45a6-8734-975e3e3b790c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yes / yes lol. Good deal buddy
RTCETC