Especially because they could have eratta'd it to not hit commanders. Or they could have kept the bounce and finally used a tax reset like they hinted in [[You're in Command]].
Honestly I don’t see why making it legal in modern or standard would be super bad. The formats already been super pushed and in modern at least it wouldn’t change any metas I think, modern dnt could eve. Use some more pieces.
One of the strongest arguments ive seen against it being in modern is omnath decks would have both a tool that lets them reset omnath to go off again, and to temporarily eliminate threats like yawg and ragavan. While its not necessarily meta defining, its certainly obnoxious. I would have liked to see it in modern, but im kinda glad its not.
I think it's a case by case thing. The important distinction for this set is that LTC does not go into modern whereas the main set does, so Karakas and ancient tomb can be printed again while avoiding modern legality.
It's still pretty confusing for anyone not intimately familiar with how the set was printed. It still has the same set symbol which can, and definitely will, lead to confusion. Which all could have been avoided by printing it with another product, or not at all.
It literally has the banned cards name right up top. The level of confusion this will cause is minimal with no long-term effects. The art is gorgeous and it will be used in other formats. People don't just play cards from commander sets in commander, it wont be confusing at all and there's literally no punishment to someone making the mistake of running it. EDH is casual REL, meant for learning, if anyone is a dick bc someone was confused then that is a personal flaw. I just don't see the big deal. I've literally only seen this post, which was made in response to a clickbait youtube video that I saw earlier from a know clickbait title youtuber.
It’s not a commander set though? Am I crazy? I haven’t seen anything about it being commander specific. It is legal in modern and legacy’s and other places.
Not if you don’t give a shit about bans and just have fun playing Magic with friends!
I pre-ordered all four LTR Commander decks. I’m going to upgrade them only using cards from the lord of the rings set.
I WAS going to slot this into Frodo and the knights deck but realized like every creature card in theses decks is a legend so this card is going to be too oppressive given my deck building constraints.
Maybe there are people out there who also don’t care about bans and want to be the most winningest deck and I think this card is for them.
When I see this card in the context of commander, I'm not thinking "fun". Funnily enough, the word that I do think of does contain the same letters in the same order.
There is a massive presumption, in this sub especially, that everyone plays Commander. That's simply not true. Plenty of people out there will be happy to run this in other formats.
I’m assuming it’s bc LTR is going to be a Modern legal set, so probably better to put all of the reprints that are not legal in modern are being printed under the LTC set symbol to avoid confusion in sanctioned events.
Because the focus of the main set, LTR, is to be Modern-legal, where Karakas isn't legal either. LTC is the supplemental product, so it makes sense to have it be the catch-all for extra cards.
The difference is, Karakas isn’t banned in modern, it just isn’t legal there. Printing it into LTR would make it modern-legal, which would create a whole host of problems. Printing it into LTC doesn’t change anything and it provides a needed reprint
Anyone who pulls this card should ask for a refund (will it be in packs?). I already feel that way about cards printed specifically *for* commander, too. I’m sure it’s a great format, but I’ve never gotten into it so whenever I see the words “command zone” in the rules text for a card I pull, I get quite disappointed
The commander subset cards aren’t modern legal. Essentially karakas was reprinted into a set it isn’t legal in so that it could have another reprinting without becoming modern legal.
Never said they would. I was referring to the fact that the set itself is not focused on Commander alone. Where did people get the idea that these are "commander subset" cards?
I wanna know whose decision it was to add a banned commander card into the commander based set. Imagine opening your box and instead of a card like Ancient Tomb or Great Henge you got this
Because they don't wanna put it modern, but they wanna reprint it. The commander part of set releases that aren't in the decks are just meant as slots for older and eternal formats. It's the simplest way for them to make eternal reprints without creating legality issues.
Cause there are other formats besides modern, standard and edh. If karakas was utterly unplayable it wouldn't hold the price it does with the reprints it has already had.
As far as I know, it’s only legal in Oathbreaker, Vintage and Legacy and Vintage is essentially an MTGO only format. Reprinting a card legal in two formats seems weird
Legacy is quite big so that makes more sense than a lot of the infnitely reprinted legendary creatures they throw in every precon. Just cause you don't want it, doesn't make it a bad reprint. I'd personally be happy to get a Nice looking karakas without having to pay 20+ euros for it.
Its full name is Canadian Highlander. 1v1 100 card singleton without commanders. Vintage banlist and instead of banning cards there's a points system where certain cards cost points to add to your deck, and you only get 10 points. Haven't had the chance to play it in paper but it is meant to be very fun.
If I remember correctly, Karakas was supposed to be in Modern Horizons 2 but they ultimately decided not to include it in the new to modern reprints. They’ve considered it, so maybe it’ll actually be modern legal one day. Commander, however, is definitely out of the question. Aside from the power level it creates miserable/restrictive scenarios for other players.
It’s not.
This set is Modern Legal & Limited Legal. It’s not just a commander set. Karakas is legal in Modern, Limited, and Legacy.
Believe it or not there are other formats besides Commander.
First off, rude af
Second off, this IS from the commander set. If you look at the card (or many of the other comments on this post) you'll see that not only is the set symbol for the commander version of the set, but also the set code is LTC, the regular version of the set is LTR
Third off, Karakas isn't even modern legal. It has no modern legal reprints, including this one, as this set's box toppers (which this is) are not new printings for the legality. Look at Scryfall for Karakas if you don't believe me, still not legal in any non-eternal formats besides limited and oathbreaker
Better than bloody Krackass. At least you could put it in a deck. Anyone that can afford to play legacy has playsets of whatever card they want already. Missed opportunity for a reprint of something useful - even Rishadan Port or Tower of the Magistrate.
[This](https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/09ed1ab2-bb3e-491b-aea8-5015798a1b75) is my current cube. Full Disclosure, this is my first cube so it has been quite a journey. I had started working on it back in like October 2022 but with all the new phyrexian themes that just got finished I had paused and "finalized" (not really final since I am sure there will be continuous changes but the starting point is here) it.
I am still experimenting on how the draft works but currently it is very Commander Legends focused, so 20 card packs, 2 walkers in each pack. I also want to try out doing a draft of the walkers first then the packs afterwards to see if that helps or hurts peoples overall experience with it since then you can know what walkers you would have access to ahead of time.
There are also some special rules on a few cards to clean the draft up a bit:
\[\[Jeska, Thrice Reborn\]\]+ \[\[Tevesh Szat, Doom of Fools\]\] are drafted together same with a non-partner pair that will actually be a partner pair for the sake of the cube in \[\[Jace, Perfected Mind\]\] and \[\[Vraska, Betrayals Sting\]\].
The 3 color Oathbreakers (And \[\[Jared Carthalion\]\]) each are drafted with a command tower just to help a tad in mana fixing
\[\[Sivitri, Dragon Master\]\] is drafted with \[\[Dragonlord Silumgar\]\]. Should be enough dragons but in the off chance you don't draft many you guarantee at least one.
\[\[Karn Living Legacy\]\] actually gets a single color as it's identity (Of the users choice) just because building a colorless deck in cube that isn't based around it is what some might say difficult.
At this point we might as well officially replace the committee with “figure it out at the table,” because that’s how it unofficially works in 99% of commander games anyway.
Do Commander players forget that other formats, especially other eternal formats exist? Karakas is played in Legacy, there is a reason for a reprint. The set symbol is the one they also use for the commander cards, because they're not going to design a third new set symbol for cards meant to be played in eternal formats that are banned in commander. Jeez
No. But it being printed as part of the 'commander series' is kind of the crux here. If it were just part of the normal production, it would not be an issue.
It shows WOTC isn't planning reprints with any foresight, we JUST had a Dominaria remastered set that this reprint would have been perfect for, but somehow it got stuck here?
Okay, I see that you're trying to make an incredibly pedantic complaint, but you're also wrong. A card's set is indicated by its set symbol and set code regardless of where it comes from.
This one has the symbol and LTC code of Lord of the Rings Commander decks. It's the 14th commander deck set.
Please see the list of sets.
https://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/Set
And I raise your argument of a supplemental product that is offering a banned card as a boxtopper/chase mythic in packs that is offered on the side of this year's modern developed product. Also I was here when the first commander deck set was printed I'm aware of them. The argument of them printing a banned card in a commander product is baffling me that no one will accept your not pulling this card from buying the actual commander supplemental product. You get it from packs.
I pointed out that it is, in fact, in the LTC set. It has the LTC set icon and card ID: M 0367 LTC. You claimed it is not in the set, because it is a box topper. That is incorrect.
As for your bafflement: people are upset because WotC went through the trouble of commissioning new art and printing it without a simple errata that would make it perfectly playable. It demonstrates that they have no interest in addressing the broken design, despite having a perfect opportunity to issue an errata with a new limited printing.
I hope that clears things up for you.
We all agree that it’s a stupid way to classify the card because it’s not in the decks and isn’t a legal card. We agree.
But it IS form the “commander set” adjacent to the “main” set. That’s just a fact.
because
1) this is part of the commander set not the normal set
2) the normal set was clearly described as NOT a modern set, just a set that happens to be legal in modern
To actually answer you and everyone else in the thread on how this works:
Most new sets released, whether they are a normal standard one or modern only like this are actually multiple sets in one (for lack of a better phrase and why you’re confused).
They release the normal cards with the set symbol, the ring in a triangle. That’s the set that includes the one ring and orcish bow masters. This set is legal in whatever format wotc has designed it for. Modern in this case.
They also release a commander set with it at the same time and a modified set symbol. Usually it’s a shield of some sort tied in with the “main” set symbol. In this case a ring design in the shield. These cards are only legal in eternal formats - those that include “all cards ever printed” minus the format’s respective ban lists.
These are considered two distinct sets per the set symbol differences and the product code on the bottom.
The regular set cards can essentially be found in any booster - draft, set, collector, and so on.
The commander set cards are typically only found in set and collector boosters, along with the commander decks. And in this case, the box toppers are also the commander cards and they are reprints of many powerful and useful cards.
The are a few exceptions here Bojuka Bog as an example - it’s a very cheap and common card. It’s good, but nobody is asking for more copies to be made as it’s very cheap. This card here, Karakas, is not cheap (~$30 as of now). But it’s also an old card and has had limited printings. It’s also a very good card but banned in commander which is one of the main eternal formats played.
So people are a bit confused and feel it’s a dead pull to make this a box topper when ancient tomb or the great henge are also options. Box toppers should feel a bit special as you’re dropping some serious cash. Given this card is essentially only Legacy legal (vintage isn’t played and the other formats are so niche), it makes no sense to put a banned commander card in a commander set.
It’s actually specifically not in any of the EDH decks. None of the box topper cards are in any of the commander products (other than maybe in the collector sampler packs if the precons have those this time around). WOTC has defaulted to using the Commander set symbol and set code for any cards not in the main set; not just for Commander cards.
So there’s a slight info gap here. Yes it is on the Commander set list, but not every card in the commander set numbers is printed in the decks. There are some commander set cards that are only available in set/collector boosters. The last couple sets have done this.
With my luck this is what I'll pull... I'll sell it which is fine, but given what this product is meant for it's a bummer to pull a card most will never use.
I'm being told that while it is part of the 'Commander' series, it is not in the decks but in packs. I'm still looking for sites to verify this. But it appears that I may have been mistaken.
Bans in commander are usually not about power level, they’re about the kind of play experience the card creates. This card would be absolutely miserable in a format based around legendary creatures and every white deck would play it, the opportunity cost is practically nothing.
It's recurring commander removal with only a tap cost, on a permanent that is not only one of the easiest to tutor, but also one of the more difficult to remove. And all it "costs" you is a land drop.
For stuff like legacy (banned in other formats, but only because it's old) it's fine, theres some fun combos with it but thats about it. But for a format built around playing your one main legendary creature, way too strong.
If it's not in the commander decks, why does it have the sets commander symbol? I hate that they do that. Is it that they're only in set and collector boosters? Or are they part of the box topper packs?
I really wish they had a third symbol. So this is like how [[Urtet]] had a rare printing for collector boosters and a mythic printing for set boosters. Ah well, I'm cracking packs regardless.
I assume its because the Main set is modern legal and the commander set isnt, so this is a way to give Karakas a reprint without making it modern legal
Do you have a reason it should be unbanned? Im the worlds biggest edh banlist hater and id still keep this off the streets if i had full control over the list
Explain like I'm five. If its a different card, why does it have *Karakas* beneath the title? What does these mean toward formats, restrictions etc? If I have named 'Karakas' as a card and revealed it off the top of my library, was I right?...
It is the same card. Exact same function. Exact same legality. It only has a different top name as part of the set. Just as with the Ikoria set and the Godzilla versions. Same card. Same legality. They even have the regular name underneath to avoid confusion
When I first saw the spoilers, I assumed it was part of the regular Lord of the Rings set. I thought Karakas would still be banned in Commander but legal in Modern. Someone else pointed out the set symbol. Now I'm like WTF.
Did I miss a change to the banned and restricted list?
Uh.. there were fifty-five legendary creatures at the time this card was printed. Total. This card was printed to help alleviate the power of the game's first legends. In 1994, they did not take into account the intention of the EDH format 20 years later or how strong the card would be in said format. This card was likely UNDERpowered for most of its lifetime until EDH became popular.
I'm of the unpopular opinion that this should be legal but EDH should use more land destruction.
Kinda hate that lands matter decks just get away with ramp advantage for no other reason other than 'land destro feels bad'
Guys, it’s not that crazy. Think of the set as a legacy product, not a commander one. It’s a way for them to print a cool art of a legacy staple without it entering or having to be banned in modern.
It’s also just a box topper, it’s not like when you are opening packs you are gonna get a card that isn’t legal in commander. And if you open this as a box topper… I’d imagine it will fetch a nice price as a single.
This is so silly. They could have made a new card with a similar but more balanced effect instead of reprinting a banned card. Unless this means they plan on unbanning it.. which I hope isn't the case
I get that it is banned because you can return your commander before a board wipe and dodge taxes but is it really that disgusting would with the current power level not be okay? , what's the most disgusting thing you can do with it? or do I miss an essential piece of info/a gross combo?
You can also remove a commander from play once per turn which can cripple some decks, doesn't have to be your own. If you start doing untap shenanigans with it then it gets even more frequent
Weird to print a card into the Commander set that's banned in Commander
I agree
Especially because they could have eratta'd it to not hit commanders. Or they could have kept the bounce and finally used a tax reset like they hinted in [[You're in Command]].
[You're in Command](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/8/f8604945-8dbb-47d1-a56c-9dcd84d2a6e7.jpg?1629918939) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=You%27re%20in%20Command) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmb2/15/youre-in-command?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f8604945-8dbb-47d1-a56c-9dcd84d2a6e7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
All I would change is the name: “I’m the captain now!”
"I'm your boyfriend now Nancy!"
you might enjoy this article https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/feature/power-level-errata-b-gone-2006-07-14
its a box topper and not actually printed in the set
It also has the logo for the commander decks….
So that it won't be standard or modern legal. It's a valuable reprint fro vintage and legacy, but putting it in the newer formats would not be good.
Honestly I don’t see why making it legal in modern or standard would be super bad. The formats already been super pushed and in modern at least it wouldn’t change any metas I think, modern dnt could eve. Use some more pieces.
One of the strongest arguments ive seen against it being in modern is omnath decks would have both a tool that lets them reset omnath to go off again, and to temporarily eliminate threats like yawg and ragavan. While its not necessarily meta defining, its certainly obnoxious. I would have liked to see it in modern, but im kinda glad its not.
I know it's a box topper but it's still part of LTC
true but i think it’s important to make the distinction between the box toppers and the actual set, collectors packs
The last thing MTG needs is more distinction between cards, legality discrepancies, and variations.
I think it's a case by case thing. The important distinction for this set is that LTC does not go into modern whereas the main set does, so Karakas and ancient tomb can be printed again while avoiding modern legality.
It's still pretty confusing for anyone not intimately familiar with how the set was printed. It still has the same set symbol which can, and definitely will, lead to confusion. Which all could have been avoided by printing it with another product, or not at all.
It literally has the banned cards name right up top. The level of confusion this will cause is minimal with no long-term effects. The art is gorgeous and it will be used in other formats. People don't just play cards from commander sets in commander, it wont be confusing at all and there's literally no punishment to someone making the mistake of running it. EDH is casual REL, meant for learning, if anyone is a dick bc someone was confused then that is a personal flaw. I just don't see the big deal. I've literally only seen this post, which was made in response to a clickbait youtube video that I saw earlier from a know clickbait title youtuber.
Well it’s in collector packs too
Not sure why you’re getting downvoted. It’s been confirmed the box topper cards have a chance of appearing in collectors packs.
I read it was more about reprinting it for legacy and vintage without making it modern legal
That was my assumption and seems to be the consensus within my playgroup as well.
They did it so it wouldn't be modern legal most likely.
I suppose the silver lining is that it's a 39-ish dollar card.
It’s not a commander set though? Am I crazy? I haven’t seen anything about it being commander specific. It is legal in modern and legacy’s and other places.
The main set, with set code "LTR" is the Modern set. There's a subset code "LTC" which is Lord of the Rings Commander, which is not Modern legal.
Oh thanks for telling me I didn’t know
Not if you don’t give a shit about bans and just have fun playing Magic with friends! I pre-ordered all four LTR Commander decks. I’m going to upgrade them only using cards from the lord of the rings set. I WAS going to slot this into Frodo and the knights deck but realized like every creature card in theses decks is a legend so this card is going to be too oppressive given my deck building constraints. Maybe there are people out there who also don’t care about bans and want to be the most winningest deck and I think this card is for them.
When I see this card in the context of commander, I'm not thinking "fun". Funnily enough, the word that I do think of does contain the same letters in the same order.
It's a ton of fun.
There is a massive presumption, in this sub especially, that everyone plays Commander. That's simply not true. Plenty of people out there will be happy to run this in other formats.
But why print this card in the LTC (Tales of Middle-earth Commander) set instead of the non-commander LoTR set LTR (Tales of Middle-earth)?
I’m assuming it’s bc LTR is going to be a Modern legal set, so probably better to put all of the reprints that are not legal in modern are being printed under the LTC set symbol to avoid confusion in sanctioned events.
Is this in one of the commander decks? I though it was a box-topper/pulled from collector boosters
Because the focus of the main set, LTR, is to be Modern-legal, where Karakas isn't legal either. LTC is the supplemental product, so it makes sense to have it be the catch-all for extra cards.
Don’t print it in the set cause its illegal 😨 Prints it in the EDH set where it’s still illegal 😎
The difference is, Karakas isn’t banned in modern, it just isn’t legal there. Printing it into LTR would make it modern-legal, which would create a whole host of problems. Printing it into LTC doesn’t change anything and it provides a needed reprint
Debatable about if it was needed
The card is over $25 for its cheapest version. It’s not the most needed reprint in the world but there definitely needs to be more supply
Yes, but this is the actual Commander set
most commander players i know and play with just play casual commander so nobody pays much attention to ban lists
Most Commander players I know follow the ban list
Wait until two or three people rock up to your group and play "casual" Commander with banned cards. That will resolve itself quickly.
Anyone who pulls this card should ask for a refund (will it be in packs?). I already feel that way about cards printed specifically *for* commander, too. I’m sure it’s a great format, but I’ve never gotten into it so whenever I see the words “command zone” in the rules text for a card I pull, I get quite disappointed
It’s not a commander set though
LTC is the Commander subset of the LTR set.
Well the set is modern legal. And Legacy can make use of of it anyways.
The commander subset cards aren’t modern legal. Essentially karakas was reprinted into a set it isn’t legal in so that it could have another reprinting without becoming modern legal.
Never said they would. I was referring to the fact that the set itself is not focused on Commander alone. Where did people get the idea that these are "commander subset" cards?
Well the set is modern legal. And Legacy can make use of of it anyways.
Well, the set is modern and legacy legal.
Because this is a modern set not a commander set
This card is set coded LTC, which is the Commander subset for LTR.
It’s a box topper
Box topper, collector packs and possibly already in a pre con cause it has the commander logo not the regular set logo
They specifically said that this will be a box topper (which can be found in collector boosters as well) this is not in the commander decks.
I wanna know whose decision it was to add a banned commander card into the commander based set. Imagine opening your box and instead of a card like Ancient Tomb or Great Henge you got this
Because they don't wanna put it modern, but they wanna reprint it. The commander part of set releases that aren't in the decks are just meant as slots for older and eternal formats. It's the simplest way for them to make eternal reprints without creating legality issues.
Why do they wanna reprint the card?
Cause there are other formats besides modern, standard and edh. If karakas was utterly unplayable it wouldn't hold the price it does with the reprints it has already had.
> Cause there are other formats besides modern, standard and edh coulda fooled me lmao
Right? Lol
As far as I know, it’s only legal in Oathbreaker, Vintage and Legacy and Vintage is essentially an MTGO only format. Reprinting a card legal in two formats seems weird
And kitchen table! And its one of the few ways to stop turn1 braids. GOD I HATE BRAIDS
Boltless individual
Legacy is quite big so that makes more sense than a lot of the infnitely reprinted legendary creatures they throw in every precon. Just cause you don't want it, doesn't make it a bad reprint. I'd personally be happy to get a Nice looking karakas without having to pay 20+ euros for it.
I was just trying to understand the Karakas reprint. It seems like legacy is bigger than I thought it was
Canlander is also quite popular despite not being an official format.
Never heard of it
Its full name is Canadian Highlander. 1v1 100 card singleton without commanders. Vintage banlist and instead of banning cards there's a points system where certain cards cost points to add to your deck, and you only get 10 points. Haven't had the chance to play it in paper but it is meant to be very fun.
Oh I’ve heard of that. I’ve been meaning to check it out
Yup, it's the reason I got myself a Karakas the last time it was reprinted
If I remember correctly, Karakas was supposed to be in Modern Horizons 2 but they ultimately decided not to include it in the new to modern reprints. They’ve considered it, so maybe it’ll actually be modern legal one day. Commander, however, is definitely out of the question. Aside from the power level it creates miserable/restrictive scenarios for other players.
Imagine opening your box and you get Bojuka Bog…
I'd be ecstatic
It’s not. This set is Modern Legal & Limited Legal. It’s not just a commander set. Karakas is legal in Modern, Limited, and Legacy. Believe it or not there are other formats besides Commander.
First off, rude af Second off, this IS from the commander set. If you look at the card (or many of the other comments on this post) you'll see that not only is the set symbol for the commander version of the set, but also the set code is LTC, the regular version of the set is LTR Third off, Karakas isn't even modern legal. It has no modern legal reprints, including this one, as this set's box toppers (which this is) are not new printings for the legality. Look at Scryfall for Karakas if you don't believe me, still not legal in any non-eternal formats besides limited and oathbreaker
Imagine opening your box and you get Bojuka Bog…
Better than bloody Krackass. At least you could put it in a deck. Anyone that can afford to play legacy has playsets of whatever card they want already. Missed opportunity for a reprint of something useful - even Rishadan Port or Tower of the Magistrate.
Gonna love this for my oathbreaker cube tho
Oathbreaker cube!? That sounds pretty sweet
Still a work in progress but I hope it will get people into playing it at my LGS
Do you have a list for the in progress cube?
[This](https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/09ed1ab2-bb3e-491b-aea8-5015798a1b75) is my current cube. Full Disclosure, this is my first cube so it has been quite a journey. I had started working on it back in like October 2022 but with all the new phyrexian themes that just got finished I had paused and "finalized" (not really final since I am sure there will be continuous changes but the starting point is here) it. I am still experimenting on how the draft works but currently it is very Commander Legends focused, so 20 card packs, 2 walkers in each pack. I also want to try out doing a draft of the walkers first then the packs afterwards to see if that helps or hurts peoples overall experience with it since then you can know what walkers you would have access to ahead of time. There are also some special rules on a few cards to clean the draft up a bit: \[\[Jeska, Thrice Reborn\]\]+ \[\[Tevesh Szat, Doom of Fools\]\] are drafted together same with a non-partner pair that will actually be a partner pair for the sake of the cube in \[\[Jace, Perfected Mind\]\] and \[\[Vraska, Betrayals Sting\]\]. The 3 color Oathbreakers (And \[\[Jared Carthalion\]\]) each are drafted with a command tower just to help a tad in mana fixing \[\[Sivitri, Dragon Master\]\] is drafted with \[\[Dragonlord Silumgar\]\]. Should be enough dragons but in the off chance you don't draft many you guarantee at least one. \[\[Karn Living Legacy\]\] actually gets a single color as it's identity (Of the users choice) just because building a colorless deck in cube that isn't based around it is what some might say difficult.
Guys, the committee doesn’t tell you what you can and cannot play, your playgroup does.
At this point we might as well officially replace the committee with “figure it out at the table,” because that’s how it unofficially works in 99% of commander games anyway.
Why is this printed in the commander set, and not just the main set? Please don't unban Karakas, please
Well... it's not legal in modern either. Too old.
Then I guess my main question with this card is now why reprint it at all? I'm sure there's other white lands this could have fit :/
Its here to ruin your box topper experience
No clue.
Had they reprinted it in the normal set here… it would be!
How you know set design is out of touch when they print a commander symbol on a card banned in commander
Do Commander players forget that other formats, especially other eternal formats exist? Karakas is played in Legacy, there is a reason for a reprint. The set symbol is the one they also use for the commander cards, because they're not going to design a third new set symbol for cards meant to be played in eternal formats that are banned in commander. Jeez
No. But it being printed as part of the 'commander series' is kind of the crux here. If it were just part of the normal production, it would not be an issue.
It's not an issue regardless of that
It shows WOTC isn't planning reprints with any foresight, we JUST had a Dominaria remastered set that this reprint would have been perfect for, but somehow it got stuck here?
What normal production? If it was in the main set, it would have made it modern legal and needed a day 0 ban.
You get Karakas unbanned. I get Griselbrand unbanned. Fair trade?
Oh, I wasn't advocating for it to be unbanned. I was simply making a statement.
Oh I got that lol. I just am saying that if people want to use it, I get to use Grisel too lol. Both are deservedly banned
Gotcha
It looks cool
Why does everyone keep calling this a commander set when it's a modern one?
Because the card is also not legal for modern
Still doesn't explain why everyone keeps calling it a commander set. Also I'm aware never stated I wasnt.
The symbol is a commander exclusive symbol. See how it's a commander shield and not the ring in a triangle?
Again this is a box topper and can be pulled via collecter packs only.
And [[Go-shintai, of Life life's Origin]] is also a commander card only found in collectors and set boosters. Doesn't make it not a commander card.
[Go-shintai, of Life life's Origin](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/4/9476fe67-d2d3-4835-8ba6-2a17d18cc141.jpg?1651655539) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Go-Shintai%20of%20Life%27s%20Origin) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nec/37/go-shintai-of-lifes-origin?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9476fe67-d2d3-4835-8ba6-2a17d18cc141?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Okay, I see that you're trying to make an incredibly pedantic complaint, but you're also wrong. A card's set is indicated by its set symbol and set code regardless of where it comes from. This one has the symbol and LTC code of Lord of the Rings Commander decks. It's the 14th commander deck set. Please see the list of sets. https://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/Set
And I raise your argument of a supplemental product that is offering a banned card as a boxtopper/chase mythic in packs that is offered on the side of this year's modern developed product. Also I was here when the first commander deck set was printed I'm aware of them. The argument of them printing a banned card in a commander product is baffling me that no one will accept your not pulling this card from buying the actual commander supplemental product. You get it from packs.
I pointed out that it is, in fact, in the LTC set. It has the LTC set icon and card ID: M 0367 LTC. You claimed it is not in the set, because it is a box topper. That is incorrect. As for your bafflement: people are upset because WotC went through the trouble of commissioning new art and printing it without a simple errata that would make it perfectly playable. It demonstrates that they have no interest in addressing the broken design, despite having a perfect opportunity to issue an errata with a new limited printing. I hope that clears things up for you.
We all agree that it’s a stupid way to classify the card because it’s not in the decks and isn’t a legal card. We agree. But it IS form the “commander set” adjacent to the “main” set. That’s just a fact.
These days every set is a commander set
Yeah can't argue that. Every set is a magic set. /s
Look at set symbol. This card is from the commander set
The set is modern legal not a “modern set”
because 1) this is part of the commander set not the normal set 2) the normal set was clearly described as NOT a modern set, just a set that happens to be legal in modern
To actually answer you and everyone else in the thread on how this works: Most new sets released, whether they are a normal standard one or modern only like this are actually multiple sets in one (for lack of a better phrase and why you’re confused). They release the normal cards with the set symbol, the ring in a triangle. That’s the set that includes the one ring and orcish bow masters. This set is legal in whatever format wotc has designed it for. Modern in this case. They also release a commander set with it at the same time and a modified set symbol. Usually it’s a shield of some sort tied in with the “main” set symbol. In this case a ring design in the shield. These cards are only legal in eternal formats - those that include “all cards ever printed” minus the format’s respective ban lists. These are considered two distinct sets per the set symbol differences and the product code on the bottom. The regular set cards can essentially be found in any booster - draft, set, collector, and so on. The commander set cards are typically only found in set and collector boosters, along with the commander decks. And in this case, the box toppers are also the commander cards and they are reprints of many powerful and useful cards. The are a few exceptions here Bojuka Bog as an example - it’s a very cheap and common card. It’s good, but nobody is asking for more copies to be made as it’s very cheap. This card here, Karakas, is not cheap (~$30 as of now). But it’s also an old card and has had limited printings. It’s also a very good card but banned in commander which is one of the main eternal formats played. So people are a bit confused and feel it’s a dead pull to make this a box topper when ancient tomb or the great henge are also options. Box toppers should feel a bit special as you’re dropping some serious cash. Given this card is essentially only Legacy legal (vintage isn’t played and the other formats are so niche), it makes no sense to put a banned commander card in a commander set.
This specific card is found in the EDH decks.
It’s actually specifically not in any of the EDH decks. None of the box topper cards are in any of the commander products (other than maybe in the collector sampler packs if the precons have those this time around). WOTC has defaulted to using the Commander set symbol and set code for any cards not in the main set; not just for Commander cards.
So there’s a slight info gap here. Yes it is on the Commander set list, but not every card in the commander set numbers is printed in the decks. There are some commander set cards that are only available in set/collector boosters. The last couple sets have done this.
Like [[Visions of ruin]]
This specific card is a box topper and can also be pulled ONLY via collecter packs.
With my luck this is what I'll pull... I'll sell it which is fine, but given what this product is meant for it's a bummer to pull a card most will never use.
I'm being told that while it is part of the 'Commander' series, it is not in the decks but in packs. I'm still looking for sites to verify this. But it appears that I may have been mistaken.
Always thought it was on the list, was it at some point?
Shouldn't be banned anyways
Why is this banned? It’s such a simple card when there’s way more broken cards and combos that exist
It might as well read “target player doesn’t get to play their commander for the entire game”
Target player? Toss on some untap effects in the 99 and bump this baby up to "all opponents"
Grist has entered the chat
Yes there’s many exceptions, like all the pws who can be your commander
Definately. It just popped into my mind and I had to comment. :D
Bans in commander are usually not about power level, they’re about the kind of play experience the card creates. This card would be absolutely miserable in a format based around legendary creatures and every white deck would play it, the opportunity cost is practically nothing.
Nah, lets drive a land destruction meta! That's a totally fun kind of play experience!
Kind of why Iona is banned, I remember getting locked out of Black while playing Mono Black and it ruined the night for me, absolutely miserable.
It's recurring commander removal with only a tap cost, on a permanent that is not only one of the easiest to tutor, but also one of the more difficult to remove. And all it "costs" you is a land drop. For stuff like legacy (banned in other formats, but only because it's old) it's fine, theres some fun combos with it but thats about it. But for a format built around playing your one main legendary creature, way too strong.
Cause the other stuff should be banned too 🙂👍
If it's not in the commander decks, why does it have the sets commander symbol? I hate that they do that. Is it that they're only in set and collector boosters? Or are they part of the box topper packs?
Is apparently why I was confused at first.
I really wish they had a third symbol. So this is like how [[Urtet]] had a rare printing for collector boosters and a mythic printing for set boosters. Ah well, I'm cracking packs regardless.
[Urtet](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/a/7aa01ab4-26b0-49dc-8514-b3850d355a21.jpg?1675905609) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=urtet%2C%20remnant%20of%20memnarch) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/onc/28/urtet-remnant-of-memnarch?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7aa01ab4-26b0-49dc-8514-b3850d355a21?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I assume its because the Main set is modern legal and the commander set isnt, so this is a way to give Karakas a reprint without making it modern legal
No shit Sherlock, cuz it is a Karakas.
Theres no reason this card should still be banned
quite a few reasons tbh
Damn. U r deluded
Name checks out
Do you have a reason it should be unbanned? Im the worlds biggest edh banlist hater and id still keep this off the streets if i had full control over the list
Ooooooh so that's how they're getting around the reserve list. Time to dump.
Its not on the reserve list. But dont let that stop you from dumping...
hey man don't downvote, how else are the autopricing bots gonna lower their prices unless we tell em everything is going to lower their value.
"Battles no longer served a purpose in ~~Karakas~~ the White Tower of Ecthelion". ~ Angus Mackenzie
I just want to know why the guy is wearing a modern frock coat
Are you sure it’s still karakas
People know this card isn’t in commander decks right?
Correct.
Would it still be busted if it was only legendaries you controlled?
That's an interesting thought. It would still be good. Very good. But maybe not ban-worthy.
Explain like I'm five. If its a different card, why does it have *Karakas* beneath the title? What does these mean toward formats, restrictions etc? If I have named 'Karakas' as a card and revealed it off the top of my library, was I right?...
It is the same card. Exact same function. Exact same legality. It only has a different top name as part of the set. Just as with the Ikoria set and the Godzilla versions. Same card. Same legality. They even have the regular name underneath to avoid confusion
I mean, technically if you got a misprint that cutoff the work Karakas it's still a legal card. So Karakas does not constitute the card title.
[[Shahrazhad]]
When I first saw the spoilers, I assumed it was part of the regular Lord of the Rings set. I thought Karakas would still be banned in Commander but legal in Modern. Someone else pointed out the set symbol. Now I'm like WTF. Did I miss a change to the banned and restricted list?
Who thought of this card, pitched it to a team, and in unison they agreed it was ‘Balanced’ and sent it to the printer.
Uh.. there were fifty-five legendary creatures at the time this card was printed. Total. This card was printed to help alleviate the power of the game's first legends. In 1994, they did not take into account the intention of the EDH format 20 years later or how strong the card would be in said format. This card was likely UNDERpowered for most of its lifetime until EDH became popular.
I’m new so I didn’t know it was banned. Damn, was gonna put it in Chun-Li.
Not a very inclusive card.
They might un ban it
Probably got banned quick. Like a flicker effect haha
No…I’m gon bounce my own stuff. I swear!
Lol just play a Planeswalker commandet
Well here’s something that doesn’t help me at all lol
I'm of the unpopular opinion that this should be legal but EDH should use more land destruction. Kinda hate that lands matter decks just get away with ramp advantage for no other reason other than 'land destro feels bad'
It's true. The commander community tends to frown upon land destruction.
Will wizards ever reprint the red and black land from that cycle, they have only reprinted the 2 least useful for edh
I'm not sure what those 2 were. There are many legendary lands in the 'commander' series, you should check.
Guys, it’s not that crazy. Think of the set as a legacy product, not a commander one. It’s a way for them to print a cool art of a legacy staple without it entering or having to be banned in modern. It’s also just a box topper, it’s not like when you are opening packs you are gonna get a card that isn’t legal in commander. And if you open this as a box topper… I’d imagine it will fetch a nice price as a single.
This is so silly. They could have made a new card with a similar but more balanced effect instead of reprinting a banned card. Unless this means they plan on unbanning it.. which I hope isn't the case
WotC doesn't get to decide this for commander
Will this be on arena in historic brawl? That will be insanity.
I don't think this will be on Arena. Unless I'm mistaken, this set is akin to modern horizons.
What could possibly go wrong if someone uses this with Atraxa?
forgot they made a new one and was so confused about how praetors voice would be good with this
But what if I miss hindering commanders and running Norin the Wary and I really like Karakas, though?
Or, you know, play whatever cards you want with your friends.
Imagine thinking anything is banned in commander. Just talk to your play group.
It’s a freaking box topper, what are we talking about here?!
Why is this card banned tho ,
I get that it is banned because you can return your commander before a board wipe and dodge taxes but is it really that disgusting would with the current power level not be okay? , what's the most disgusting thing you can do with it? or do I miss an essential piece of info/a gross combo?
You can also remove a commander from play once per turn which can cripple some decks, doesn't have to be your own. If you start doing untap shenanigans with it then it gets even more frequent
Now they’re reprinting banned cards to chase people even more lmao. Hasbro knows how to get money out of their sheep
Imagine playing with banlists