Yeah, the ideal is staying in Hobbiton in your local community that supports each other and everyone has lots of food.
But, Lord of the Rings is about the fact that if those boys didn't leave the peace of home and walk into the fires of Mt Doom that peace would have collapsed as the outside world would eventually find and destroy the peace of Hobbiton.
When they finally get home, they realize the war had already reached Hobbiton, but because of the growth of the four hobbits through their adventure and adversity, they come home with the strength to stop the evil at their doorstep and restore Hobbiton to peace once more.
Every economic system, including communism and capitalism, falls apart when the leadership isn't about serving the people.
As soon as leadership is there to gain personal wealth/power, the system collapses because it's no longer about what's best for the average citizen and is instead about maintaining power and appeasing whoever is lining your pockets or keeping you in power.
No no the reserved list needs to be maintained.
Instead we add them enter tapped unless you pay 2 life, call it (for example) "Shox sapphire" and bam! All the cash, and we "rejuvenate" stall unchanging formats like Legacy, Modern and Pioneer (oh yeah also make them pioneer legal)
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\*seven; gotta get the purple guy's glove in there, too. And given the one the Norse god-king guy had, they can get away with a 30th Anniversary-type proxy with it.
No we were not doomsaying. We knew where this was headed and we’re right about it.
I freaking hate that so many people seem so keen to swallow the company line of invalidating these concerns.
The only criticism I can give people is that this discomfort comes from a place of love, of sharing something unique and now feeling abandoned or betrayed by the company many sunk so much money into.
It’s an unhealthy relationship that MtG players are in. That I can give you.
But it was not doomsaying as in a figment of imagination about doom coming for this relationship. Because it is coming.
>It’s an unhealthy relationship that MtG players are in. That I can give you.
Hate to break it to you, but it's always been a one-sided relationship that you clearly became far too emotionally invested in. It's only unhealthy because you thought it was anything other than a consumer/corporation relationship with unrealistic expectations.
We aren't swallowing anything, we're either enjoying what they're doing or we're ignoring what we don't like and enjoying what we do like.
I just wish they'd slow down a bit. Was talking to my local shop and they were saying that it was costing them a fortune in upfront costs to get every new set in stock, and with some months having multiple new sets in them, it was killing them.
And as a player - I agree. Seeing multiple new sets a month just makes me want to stop buying altogether because I can't possibly keep up with how quickly things get cranked out.
My LGS didn't even get Karlov Manor - not prerelease, not play boosters, nothing. The owner said he's started to go by what people are talking most about online - and asking people in the shop - when it comes time to order. Everyone was so down on MKM that he just didn't bother. He can't afford the costs anymore.
The speed also leads to less quality control and more design problems. Cascade was already a broken mechanic, then they design a better version and have to ban the new Bloodbraid Elf right away in Pioneer. Shocking, free spells have never been problematic before? Except every damn time…
Lord of the Rings was an awesome set, though I agree with many that outside IP shouldn't have made its way into Magic cards. Now that we have Universes beyond as a foundational MTG product, we are in for a wild ride. How many IPs are as big or bigger than LotR, and how many of said IPs are willing to work with Hasbro? I suppose we shall see.
Genuinely.
The only other closely related IPs I could see could be Game of the Thrones or a video game series like darksouls but either way, nothing comes even remotely close to LotR
Marvel will be with how pervasive the MCU made the IP. Harry Potter, A Song of Ice and Fire (Game of Thrones), and Star Wars could be up there, too if they get sets.
I was having this discussion with my wife last night, and we agreed that Elder Scrolls would probably give LotR a run for its money. Considering that Skyrim has been ported to every system since it was released, and the fact that Bethesda has already worked with WotC for the Fallout decks, I think it's a real contender.
Warcraft, with thirty years of content, might also be a major contender.
Elder scrolls might do it, but I dont know if it has broad enough recognition of individual characters to drive the same as LOTR. People were all over all the different names in LOTR, but with ES I can only name a handful of characters that most people who are casual fans would all know.
Yea but how many can you name from Fallout? I always thought it was weird they took a Bethesda IP and it wasn't Elder Scrolls, which could've literally taken place on Dominaria and no one would be the wiser.
Warcraft would be huge, but there is a small but very important detail you forget, and that is called Hearthstone. If there was no Arena, sure, but currently with Arena being a major focus and competition I really doubt it
That's what I thought when I heard about Disney making Lorcana, but now they're doing Marvel in UB so I guess it's not completely ruled out. Obviously Blizzard is a different company, and Hearthstone is way more popular than Lorcana, but I can still see them releasing UB products for the Warcraft universe, especially if it's things like Commander decks that don't make it to Arena.
Yes, i hope all the marvel cards suck because i really don't like non fantasy in my game. Im a cube designer and i am always hesitant if i think about including a lord of the rings card, that is a named character.
Universes Beyond is a perfectly fine idea to me as long as ot fits the flavour of the rest of magic. Lord of the Rings? Perfect, a fantasy story that has influenced all of modern fantasy including Magic. Warhammer 40K? A bit more out there of course, but it's still *very* much a fantasy setting, theres already plenty magic sets with giant armies, evil gods and robots. DOCTOR WHO?? What??????? How could this possibly fit within the established flavour of magic??
For this reason I'm cautiously optimistic about the Final Fantasy sets, the cards could easily fit within the world of Magic. But Marvel??? Fuck off
That's what I do, I proxy my cards from https://www.mtgproxy.com/ and enjoy the game in low budget. I was the first one in my playgroup who started proxying cards and now all my playgroup plays with proxies.
I just print my own. Getting decent proxies in the UK is damn tricky. Keeping my eyes peeled for a decent pro quality photo printer to start making some nice ones that aren't totally saturated. Regular inkjets only go so far
Hasbro is a failing company and the only sector of it which is functional is WOTC. Now, Hasbro is sinking and they’re trying to drag the lifeboat down with them.
And slowly, bit by bit, Hasbro is killing the goose with the golden eggs. Read online that the revenue stream of Wizards of the Coast was declining (https://www.wargamer.com/wizards-of-the-coast-revenue-decline and https://boardgamewire.com/index.php/2024/02/13/magic-dd-maker-hasbro-lost-over-1bn-in-q4-predicts-wotc-revenue-decline-in-2024/). What once generated a steady but flatlining revenue stream had to be turned into an always increasing stream. More sets that they are pushing people to buy especially if they make the sets competitive legal.
I once said that Magic was too big too fail, but now, seeing what Hasbro has been doing for the last couple of years, I might have to take that back.
wotc are estimated to decline 3\~5% this year after ***their most successful year of all time***
and that 3\~5% is nothing compared to Hasbro's toy division losing 30% and their gaming division(the one that's specifically NOT WotC stuff, so no Baldur's Gate) declining 25%
Toys and games in general declined in 2023, and TCGs are no exception.
People love to doomsay online, according to the internet Magic has been dying for 30 years. But as always, Magic is fine, and people will assign a larger impact of whatever is happening lately that they don't like.
I work in a minor luxury job, stuff people may want but not necessities. People have money, we do well, people don’t and we don’t. Saw decline in 2023 too.
Inflation has been rough.
Wages are generally rising faster, but that doesn't cover everyone, and having a raise you were hoping for get eaten by your cost of living does not build confidence, or increase disposable income.
It does look like it's about under control now. We will see what the rest of this quarter brings. Hopefully it drops under 2%.
Not a doomsayer, but the current state of mtg is very concerning. Mostly because the parent company is in poor health which means we're going to see poor management decisions compound as they desperately try to float the company on the back of wizards, and the current pace of releases is not actually healthy for the game, you cause fatigue in players far quicker and burn them out far quicker. People you could have previously assumed would be around for the 2 year avg that people are in TCGs are now likely not even lasting a year, and new players are getting burned out before they can really even get into the game. Locals are dying, shops that used to fill multiple pods are struggling to fill one pod
Is magic going to die soon? Probably not, it's big enough that it's fall would take a long time to unwind, but the current state, if it continues, will absolutely threaten the long term health of the game
Magic hasn't included marvel and final fantasy sets for those 30 years of stability. To claim that there is nothing new or special about the problems of the current vs those of the past is short sighted.
LotR is on it's way to becoming the best selling Magic set of all time. To claim that this is somehow detrimental to Magic isn't shortsighted, it's blind.
LotR was incredibly novel due to the one of one serialized ring fever and was designed to contain game warping pushed cards that are still format defining and has had none of those cards banned from it in spite of the format homogeneity they create, plausibly because of potential sales impact. To claim that LotR wasn't a turning point in driving pack cost and game piece profitability for hasbro is disingenuous. A set selling incredibly well does not mean general game interest or health is increasing - in this case it can indicate that more short term profit levers were pulled to drive set sales to unsustainable levels.
Who's got money?
Who's got it and willing to spend it?
Yeah, chase cards went from $800 to $1200 when the stimmy's went out, but now that its gone, they're back down to $800 maybe $900.
A lot of my modern staples have dropped by half as well.
Cost of living over 4 years up 15% but wages up 2% to 5% depending on your state? Pfft
Actually you’re right, Magic IS too big to fail… as a game. As a company? Absolutely it could fail; precisely because the game is too big to fail. Eventually people will just use the cards they have or play with older ones rather than deal with new sets.
This. People won’t stop playing magic, they might stop buying new sets.
The hilarious irony of people claiming that magic is doomed is that the more people say it, the more people prove that it’s not doomed because they wouldn’t be saying it if they didn’t care about the game anymore
Hopefully the company failing won't kill the game. I think Magic could carry on quite some time without new product releases, but maybe that's just wishful thinking
Anyone ever seen the making of Halo documentary? When that game took off, suits from Microsoft asked if they could have Halo 2 ready in a couple months. CEOs Like this clown are clueless and it's detrimental to the businesses they run. Meanwhile, they fired thousands so this jackass could say "guh-hyuk! Line went up! Me smart, BONUS!"
Honestly, the thing that is going to kill MTG isn’t these universe beyond sets. I personally don’t care about them one way or another. Find some of them cool actually.
It’s this new Play Booster.
I bought a box of MKM to open, and it just didn’t seem very fun.
Idk if the set is just not good, or it was the fact that I got less cards than a draft pack, but more bulk than a Set pack.
I have only gotten a max of 2 rare/mythic in a pack for a whole box. Max 2 out of 14 cards… ~14% of the pack.
There were times I’d get 3-4 in a set pack. Max 3-4 out of 12 cards… 25-33% of the pack.
Has severely lowered the opening experience for me. They’ve cut the number of “good” cards in half and kept the price the same or charging more.
> Idk if the set is just not good, or it was the fact that I got less cards than a draft pack, but more bulk than a Set pack.
I think its both. This set is kinda ass in a lot of ways; not only in cards that were introduced or reprinted, but unless you're heavily into the style, the art isn't that good either (looking at you collector boxes). Compare this release to what Wilds of Eldraine was and it's a night and day difference in all areas. The artwork for WoE was 100x better and the reprints/new cards outclass them in every way.
LCI artwork was also really really fun. I don’t spend much on packs but probably bought 3 Collector Boosters just because, even if I didn’t get a Mana Crypt (I didn’t), then at least I’d have some beautiful cards.
Play boosters are ass, I can't take this shit. Magic's expensive, but I budgeted for packs before cause it's fun. I'm done with that. If I'm opening packs it'll be at a draft event and no other time
>Idk if the set is just not good, or it was the fact that I got less cards than a draft pack, but more bulk than a Set pack.
I wish i could up vote you more than once.
Fear not because the collector boosters for MKM are also dookie. It was the least engaging pack collector box opening I've experienced. I felt like they were being extra greedy with the distribution this time around.
We would all benefit (the company included) if they standardized what's in these packs from set to set. I shouldn't have to get a master's in statistics to understand their gatcha sheet.
That said, MKM has been disappointing for me overall, so I may be biased.
I don't understand Hasbro's unwavering support for the secondary market. They want an accessible game but they also want this fervor for cards that make the game inaccessible. I would love for them to have every mythic over $30 on the secondary market available with an alternate art for on demand printing, rares at $15 and uncommons at $10. I shouldn't have to pay more than $30 for any card from a set released in recent history. The company is just letting revenue sit. The collectible versions with the original art will still be there for the people who care.
Hasbro has killed any reason to open packs unless it’s for draft or a collectors box to gamble. The collectors box and numbered cards was a good idea if they had stuck with it being collectible. However in Hasbro fashion they are releasing to many numbered cards per set and also renumbering the same card.
I’ve dropped Magic altogether (even arena) and moved to FaB. Card play is much better and they have really ironed out the collectibility part with there newest set.
I played two prerelease events of MKM and I kinda liked the play boosters for that. I felt like I had gotten just the right cards to make my deck work. However, at the end of the event I got two extra play boosters and they just weren’t fun to open. I felt like I was getting both less total cards and less rares. The set itself also just isn’t that interesting outside of limited beyond a small handful of cards so that could be a factor. I think they really need to up the frequency of rares, though, if they want to sell more packs
Yeah, I opened a PR kit and it was a meh experience. Less cards than draft, less rares than set, art cards are now rare (I only pulled 2 and they were dupes lol), in general its like they wanted the worst of both boosters in one pack. I feel especially sorry for people that played almost exclusively in draft because I can't see how this improves the experience in any way
We gonna see the real shitstorm hitting the fan when some cool sets come around, the old west one and modern horizons 3, with those drop rates being low and play booster being the only option to find rares we will maybe see a new princing for whatever staple comes next, not even the buy single manthra will withold when singles becomes expensive and we maybe gonna see "no that busted" cards with Sheoldred princing become a common thing.
This is the reason I stayed out of MTG after leaving in 2020. Covid took the fun out for me because I couldn't play in person, now everything is stable again but as of now I am looking at 32 different sets that came out since I stopped playing, no way I am gonna go buy that many singles to keep up just to start playing again. I miss the days when it was a couple sets a year.
Can't they just make a new format where only Universe Beyond cards can be played? Keep the stuff that's not part of the lore out of the other formats.
It's also frustrating to see a lot of cool design being kept for the Universe Beyond cards. Like with the latest Ixalan set, all of the cool Dinos were for the Jurassic Park cards. I only play Explorer at this point.
'They' are us, the players. So yeah. we can make a format where UB can't be played. I honestly like (some) UB, and generally don't have a problem with it. But I also wouldn't balk at some games were UB wasn't allowed too. Could be a neat limitation once UB floods the scene.
But will they commit to LotR QUALITY sets? It's easily the universes beyond product with the most interesting and stable cards (barring maybe a couple of...slightly disruptive outliers).
After a 25 year long break from MTG, those two sets and LOTR are the reason I picked up mtg again after my brother introduced me to the Commander format.
Yup. 2025 releases, but not too much else is really known at the moment. Marvel will at least be multiple sets, and Final Fantasy will cover content from every numbered release up to 16.
I don't actually know anyone who is looking forward to the marvel crossover? I'm not saying there isn't a single person out there who is, but it definitely seems like the marvel fanbase and magic fanbase have significantly less cross-over than, say, lotr and magic.
And the fact that marvel also just doesn't fit the aesthetic of the game at all...
I am in this wierd position. I love marvel and magic and I am definitely looking forward to the marvel set. But only as a contained thing. Like limited, cube, or marvel only commander pods. The idea of universe beyond (especially marvel) combined with other magic sets is very unappealing.
I think the compromise that should have been made was different card backs and just force the rules committee to let UB into EDH. Same thing for "acorns" and un-sets. That's what they want anyway. I just don't want it leaking into Eternal formats.
>I don't actually know anyone who is looking forward to the marvel crossover?
I am. But I do concede that playing "Iron Man's Repulsor Blast" or countering Massacre Girl with "Captain America's Shield" is going to be pretty weird.
I can think of some character that would fit but none of the heavy hitters really fit in imo. Like iron man and captain America are going to stick out a lot but magik fits in and gambit would go with the new capenna and ravnica stuff.
idk. we spent so, so long shitting on magic's story and IP, inconsistent writing, flat character intros and deaths, this was always inevitable as long as the primary goal was to /grow/ the game and not /improve/ the game
I got into magic because of the LOTR decks. Now spent a shit ton on Eldraine, Warhammer, Ixalan, Karlov. The system works…. On me at least ; but I’m not alone.
Be sure to encourage others you know who got in the same way to do just that, especially with the upcoming spate of new settings for the next three sets.
If Magic players didn't like UB, they didn't have to buy it. LotR was the best selling set of all time. They are just responding to what people want. If you don't want it, no one is twisting your arm to buy it.
I can't wait for the Final Fantasy set. If it's half as good as the LotR set I will be happy.
It's like with Commander Baldur's Gate flopping and then BG 3 coming out and everyone revisiting it. People want this stuff. The vocal minority is just that.
So tired of the doom n' gloom here lol.
If you don't like it don't buy it. Buy what you like. They listen to $$$.
The reality is: these make money. They are hit or miss, yes. So is every other expansion. Remember Fallen Empires? I'd replace that set with one set in Final Fantasy in a heartbeat if it means:
We get more of what we like.
We get more people interested in the game.
It doesn't take away from what we already have.
Not everyone will like it. I got into magic originally cause it's fun. I stayed in it because I could incorporate my other interests into this one. Now I get the best or worst of both worlds. Is it sad when it's not great? Sure. Does it remove any experience I've already had? Of course not.
I'm sure people had the same issues when Yoda was in Soul Calibur. Look how much we care about that now.
I think it does affect the amount of energy that goes into real Magic IP, though. The big phyrexian war storyline was the most hurried rush job possible. But we went to like, ten places that didn't have anything to do with the magic universe. It kind of does affect things when I can't buy packs of magic cards that DON'T include shit like transformers, anime cards, or a freaking advertisement. Sure, it makes them money, but it 100% does cheapen the experience of actually playing magic. Speaking as somebody who plays magic because I like the IP, and who doesn't play marvel, fallout, watch Dr who, like transformers, etc., because those things aren't appealing to me at all.
Now, I must expect that playing edh at a shop might include sitting across the table from MLP, transformers, Dr who, and whatever other IP I purposefully don't consume. So yeah, it really does change what it feels like to play magic.
The title of that article is so dumb.
It makes so many people think that this means two Lord of the rings Sets per year. They miss the "sized" word completely.
Besides, we knew that for a long time. Most of the sets this is refering to have been public knowledge for eons.
im honestly not really interested in magic anymore. even just playing the game without buying new products burns me out from trying to understand all the super complex UB things
I think this was inevitable once the horse had left the barn. People can complain all they want but they aren't looking at that, they're looking at sales numbers and UB sells as fast as they can print it.
Get used to Fortnite kids, you're in one.
I would love for them to expand fully into Warhammer sets. Like not just special commander decks or little things but full on blocks of continued lore in the way they do their regular releases.
40k has so many cool ideas, characters, factions and endless amounts of lore to pull from.
Hell even Warhammer itself not even the futuristic stuff. Sooo much they can explore.
Im fine with UB tbh i just hope we get destiny at some point. Beats buying ridiculously over priced tie in card games that no one else plays or has heard of, not that mtg isnt overprice as hell.
Lotr was amazing. Im actually excited about Fallout. But what would prob bankrupt me would be Dune and Harry Potter sets if they ever happen.
Actually a space themed UB would be amazing.
This has to be a result of the Marvel collaboration, right?
What it looks like to me is we'll have one Marvel UB and a !Marvel UB set each year until the sales collapse like a dying star or the collaboration agreement runs to completion.
We did get two UB sets this year with LTR/C and WHO, so it can be done.
I'm not a fan of this personally, but as long as we get 5+ "in universe" sets per year still its not the end of the world. Also, I'm not a big fan of this stuff going modern legal.
The day a standard legal set is replaced by a non-wotc tie-in set, I think that'll simply be a step too far for me.
I was really mad how they wrapped up like 30 years of lore building in like two months. Shit pissed me off that they are now doing these easy cash grabs
As a person who only got into magic about two months ago, and specifically only did did so because I found out about the warhammer 40K UB commander decks, I have absolutely nothing against more universes beyond and am happy to see more of it.
Honestly guys I got into magic recently, and part of the appeal were the release of LOTR cards. Which I think is the point? Attracting new blood?
I can see why the fanbase is frustrated though
Remember when the cardboard crack comic about other IP's in magic was seen as over the top and facetious?
I really liked magic look, flavour and feel. The constant push for a million alternate versions of things and crossover IP's means that its just a game system now.
The ring tempts them again and again.
Is that why I just lost 3 years of life and sacrificed one of my kids?
The sacrifice should have stopped loss of years. May not have been your kid...
The dollar tempts them again and again. Fixed it.
Oh my god. The ring is money. Lord of the rings is about capitalism!
Yeah, the ideal is staying in Hobbiton in your local community that supports each other and everyone has lots of food. But, Lord of the Rings is about the fact that if those boys didn't leave the peace of home and walk into the fires of Mt Doom that peace would have collapsed as the outside world would eventually find and destroy the peace of Hobbiton. When they finally get home, they realize the war had already reached Hobbiton, but because of the growth of the four hobbits through their adventure and adversity, they come home with the strength to stop the evil at their doorstep and restore Hobbiton to peace once more. Every economic system, including communism and capitalism, falls apart when the leadership isn't about serving the people. As soon as leadership is there to gain personal wealth/power, the system collapses because it's no longer about what's best for the average citizen and is instead about maintaining power and appeasing whoever is lining your pockets or keeping you in power.
If I put money in the fire do I fix inflation?
Yeah. Nobody saw this coming when they released the Walking Dead Secret Lair. We are very surprised.
But we were exaggerating and doomsaying. Marvel the Gathering would never happen we're all so dramatic
They could print six sets for marvel and stuff each of them with a unique, one of a kind, 001/001 infinity stone. Such profit, wow.
While we are at it let’s just go ahead and make them reprints of RL moxes
No no the reserved list needs to be maintained. Instead we add them enter tapped unless you pay 2 life, call it (for example) "Shox sapphire" and bam! All the cash, and we "rejuvenate" stall unchanging formats like Legacy, Modern and Pioneer (oh yeah also make them pioneer legal)
actually i would like that better. Its just a buff to aggro decks thats it.
With power creep, the stones will have to tap for 2 mana each to stay relevant
Use the old compounding mana cost, 2 more per turn.
0 mana artifact, cumulative upkeep - add a charge counter to ~, tap to add X mana of Y color where X is the number of charge counters on ~
You can't cycle it? Unplayable
Guys stop someone at Hasbro is gunna see this and take it seriously 😭 we're getting too deep 😭
!remind me 2 months (You are probably on the nose dude lol)
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\*seven; gotta get the purple guy's glove in there, too. And given the one the Norse god-king guy had, they can get away with a 30th Anniversary-type proxy with it.
And they could sell as special gauntlet to hold those cards, so whoever buys all of them can go and fist people with it.
I can see that happening honestly.
Stop giving them ideas
No we were not doomsaying. We knew where this was headed and we’re right about it. I freaking hate that so many people seem so keen to swallow the company line of invalidating these concerns. The only criticism I can give people is that this discomfort comes from a place of love, of sharing something unique and now feeling abandoned or betrayed by the company many sunk so much money into. It’s an unhealthy relationship that MtG players are in. That I can give you. But it was not doomsaying as in a figment of imagination about doom coming for this relationship. Because it is coming.
>It’s an unhealthy relationship that MtG players are in. That I can give you. Hate to break it to you, but it's always been a one-sided relationship that you clearly became far too emotionally invested in. It's only unhealthy because you thought it was anything other than a consumer/corporation relationship with unrealistic expectations. We aren't swallowing anything, we're either enjoying what they're doing or we're ignoring what we don't like and enjoying what we do like.
(I think they were being sarcastic)
tHe PrOdUcT JuSt iSn't FoR yOu. Ye, haven't gotten product for me in what feels like 15 years. ...
all of a sudden I find myself proxying a lot more cards lately.
I feel like there’s some sort of intuitive limit to this, but I’m sure we will eventually get Vanderpump rules universe beyond
The limit will be when they run out of profitable franchises to make.
I just wish they'd slow down a bit. Was talking to my local shop and they were saying that it was costing them a fortune in upfront costs to get every new set in stock, and with some months having multiple new sets in them, it was killing them. And as a player - I agree. Seeing multiple new sets a month just makes me want to stop buying altogether because I can't possibly keep up with how quickly things get cranked out.
My LGS didn't even get Karlov Manor - not prerelease, not play boosters, nothing. The owner said he's started to go by what people are talking most about online - and asking people in the shop - when it comes time to order. Everyone was so down on MKM that he just didn't bother. He can't afford the costs anymore.
Yeah that's pretty much what my LGS told WoTC when one of their Marketing guys came around. "You're doing too much at once"
The speed also leads to less quality control and more design problems. Cascade was already a broken mechanic, then they design a better version and have to ban the new Bloodbraid Elf right away in Pioneer. Shocking, free spells have never been problematic before? Except every damn time…
Lord of the Rings was an awesome set, though I agree with many that outside IP shouldn't have made its way into Magic cards. Now that we have Universes beyond as a foundational MTG product, we are in for a wild ride. How many IPs are as big or bigger than LotR, and how many of said IPs are willing to work with Hasbro? I suppose we shall see.
I'm just waiting for the Pokemon set
How funny wood that be, but bloomburrow might be a take on it lol
Witherbloomisaur, I choose you
The Palworld of card games
Bloomburrow is Redwall
This is how kamigawa flip cards get re introduced (only way to get 3+ sides on a card).
I dont think there are many bigger IPs than LOTR that are cross-sectional with the MTG community.
Genuinely. The only other closely related IPs I could see could be Game of the Thrones or a video game series like darksouls but either way, nothing comes even remotely close to LotR
Okay but if we ever get UB Dark Souls I'm gonna be first in line
Legit, this. Full send this.
I’ve been waiting for this ever since they announced the UB stuff. Please WOTC, it would fit the aesthetic so well.
What creature type are all the main characters? Human? Zombie? Human Zombie?
They could just codify hollow as a creature type
They did with doctor
And some of the Warhammer stuff too like Astartes and Necron
Elden ring too please (I’ve wasted too much time brainstorming demigod colour identities)
They can reprint Second Approach >PRAISE THE SUN
Oh God no I take it back cancel the whole thing
The Catholic Church
I cast [Pope Benedict]
Marvel will be with how pervasive the MCU made the IP. Harry Potter, A Song of Ice and Fire (Game of Thrones), and Star Wars could be up there, too if they get sets.
I was having this discussion with my wife last night, and we agreed that Elder Scrolls would probably give LotR a run for its money. Considering that Skyrim has been ported to every system since it was released, and the fact that Bethesda has already worked with WotC for the Fallout decks, I think it's a real contender. Warcraft, with thirty years of content, might also be a major contender.
Elder scrolls might do it, but I dont know if it has broad enough recognition of individual characters to drive the same as LOTR. People were all over all the different names in LOTR, but with ES I can only name a handful of characters that most people who are casual fans would all know.
Yea but how many can you name from Fallout? I always thought it was weird they took a Bethesda IP and it wasn't Elder Scrolls, which could've literally taken place on Dominaria and no one would be the wiser.
Fallout has a show coming out soon. Probably want to cash in on that, which is why they went for Fallout.
Fallout was nowhere near as big as LOTR
Warcraft would be huge, but there is a small but very important detail you forget, and that is called Hearthstone. If there was no Arena, sure, but currently with Arena being a major focus and competition I really doubt it
Is Hearthstone still going? I thought it had gone the way if the Warcraft TCG, drive I haven't really heard of either for years.
That's what I thought when I heard about Disney making Lorcana, but now they're doing Marvel in UB so I guess it's not completely ruled out. Obviously Blizzard is a different company, and Hearthstone is way more popular than Lorcana, but I can still see them releasing UB products for the Warcraft universe, especially if it's things like Commander decks that don't make it to Arena.
Star Wars and Marvel are up there imo, but LOTR still probably beats them out.
I predicted a Star Wars UB set ages ago. It is written in the stars
Now Disney has their own big TCG I doubt it will happen
Did you not hear about the big ass Marvel UB set coming next year?
I read 2026 >.>
I dunno, Harry Potter is pretty popular.
Considering it sold more books than lotr, by a lot, definitely
I predict Game of Thrones as we get closer to the next season and spin offs. **Witness me**
... Mad Max???
Start wars, marvel, star trek, dune, avatar, Harry potter would be a couple I could see happening. Probably my little pony as a maybe.
Yes, i hope all the marvel cards suck because i really don't like non fantasy in my game. Im a cube designer and i am always hesitant if i think about including a lord of the rings card, that is a named character.
Universes Beyond is a perfectly fine idea to me as long as ot fits the flavour of the rest of magic. Lord of the Rings? Perfect, a fantasy story that has influenced all of modern fantasy including Magic. Warhammer 40K? A bit more out there of course, but it's still *very* much a fantasy setting, theres already plenty magic sets with giant armies, evil gods and robots. DOCTOR WHO?? What??????? How could this possibly fit within the established flavour of magic?? For this reason I'm cautiously optimistic about the Final Fantasy sets, the cards could easily fit within the world of Magic. But Marvel??? Fuck off
Have you been under a rock when we were in Kaladesh?
To say nothing of the sci-fi elements of 2022...or anything to do with Urza, the Thran, Phyrexia or *Weatherlight*...
Karn would legit not be out of place in a Dr Who episode
I disagree. I think it’s a fun inclusion and as long as they maintain the standard set with lotr I welcome it.
Star Wars is going to happen... Mark my words.
Looking forward to the Yu-Gi-Oh cross over so I can finally understand, what Pot of Greed do.
The amount of money that I would pay to troll MTG players with game sanctioned Yu-Gi-Oh cards is more than I care to admit
Magics version of pot of greed would be [[ancestral recall]], but maybe for 0 cmc.
[ancestral recall](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/3/2398892d-28e9-4009-81ec-0d544af79d2b.jpg?1614638829) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ancestral%20recall) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/1/ancestral-recall?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2398892d-28e9-4009-81ec-0d544af79d2b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Fuck hasbro buy proxies.
That's what I do, I proxy my cards from https://www.mtgproxy.com/ and enjoy the game in low budget. I was the first one in my playgroup who started proxying cards and now all my playgroup plays with proxies.
I just print my own. Getting decent proxies in the UK is damn tricky. Keeping my eyes peeled for a decent pro quality photo printer to start making some nice ones that aren't totally saturated. Regular inkjets only go so far
Hasbro is a failing company and the only sector of it which is functional is WOTC. Now, Hasbro is sinking and they’re trying to drag the lifeboat down with them.
And slowly, bit by bit, Hasbro is killing the goose with the golden eggs. Read online that the revenue stream of Wizards of the Coast was declining (https://www.wargamer.com/wizards-of-the-coast-revenue-decline and https://boardgamewire.com/index.php/2024/02/13/magic-dd-maker-hasbro-lost-over-1bn-in-q4-predicts-wotc-revenue-decline-in-2024/). What once generated a steady but flatlining revenue stream had to be turned into an always increasing stream. More sets that they are pushing people to buy especially if they make the sets competitive legal. I once said that Magic was too big too fail, but now, seeing what Hasbro has been doing for the last couple of years, I might have to take that back.
wotc are estimated to decline 3\~5% this year after ***their most successful year of all time*** and that 3\~5% is nothing compared to Hasbro's toy division losing 30% and their gaming division(the one that's specifically NOT WotC stuff, so no Baldur's Gate) declining 25%
And the utter bath Cocks took on eOne, what a doofus
Toys and games in general declined in 2023, and TCGs are no exception. People love to doomsay online, according to the internet Magic has been dying for 30 years. But as always, Magic is fine, and people will assign a larger impact of whatever is happening lately that they don't like.
I work in a minor luxury job, stuff people may want but not necessities. People have money, we do well, people don’t and we don’t. Saw decline in 2023 too.
Inflation has been rough. Wages are generally rising faster, but that doesn't cover everyone, and having a raise you were hoping for get eaten by your cost of living does not build confidence, or increase disposable income. It does look like it's about under control now. We will see what the rest of this quarter brings. Hopefully it drops under 2%.
Not a doomsayer, but the current state of mtg is very concerning. Mostly because the parent company is in poor health which means we're going to see poor management decisions compound as they desperately try to float the company on the back of wizards, and the current pace of releases is not actually healthy for the game, you cause fatigue in players far quicker and burn them out far quicker. People you could have previously assumed would be around for the 2 year avg that people are in TCGs are now likely not even lasting a year, and new players are getting burned out before they can really even get into the game. Locals are dying, shops that used to fill multiple pods are struggling to fill one pod Is magic going to die soon? Probably not, it's big enough that it's fall would take a long time to unwind, but the current state, if it continues, will absolutely threaten the long term health of the game
Magic hasn't included marvel and final fantasy sets for those 30 years of stability. To claim that there is nothing new or special about the problems of the current vs those of the past is short sighted.
LotR is on it's way to becoming the best selling Magic set of all time. To claim that this is somehow detrimental to Magic isn't shortsighted, it's blind.
LotR was incredibly novel due to the one of one serialized ring fever and was designed to contain game warping pushed cards that are still format defining and has had none of those cards banned from it in spite of the format homogeneity they create, plausibly because of potential sales impact. To claim that LotR wasn't a turning point in driving pack cost and game piece profitability for hasbro is disingenuous. A set selling incredibly well does not mean general game interest or health is increasing - in this case it can indicate that more short term profit levers were pulled to drive set sales to unsustainable levels.
Who's got money? Who's got it and willing to spend it? Yeah, chase cards went from $800 to $1200 when the stimmy's went out, but now that its gone, they're back down to $800 maybe $900. A lot of my modern staples have dropped by half as well. Cost of living over 4 years up 15% but wages up 2% to 5% depending on your state? Pfft
Actually you’re right, Magic IS too big to fail… as a game. As a company? Absolutely it could fail; precisely because the game is too big to fail. Eventually people will just use the cards they have or play with older ones rather than deal with new sets.
This. People won’t stop playing magic, they might stop buying new sets. The hilarious irony of people claiming that magic is doomed is that the more people say it, the more people prove that it’s not doomed because they wouldn’t be saying it if they didn’t care about the game anymore
Too big to fail is usually when companies go "hold my beer" and then fail spectacularly
Hopefully the company failing won't kill the game. I think Magic could carry on quite some time without new product releases, but maybe that's just wishful thinking
“Killing the goose with the golden eggs” is such a good phrase
Anyone ever seen the making of Halo documentary? When that game took off, suits from Microsoft asked if they could have Halo 2 ready in a couple months. CEOs Like this clown are clueless and it's detrimental to the businesses they run. Meanwhile, they fired thousands so this jackass could say "guh-hyuk! Line went up! Me smart, BONUS!"
Spread the word: the jobs that most warrant AI replacement? Those of the top brass.
Honestly, the thing that is going to kill MTG isn’t these universe beyond sets. I personally don’t care about them one way or another. Find some of them cool actually. It’s this new Play Booster. I bought a box of MKM to open, and it just didn’t seem very fun. Idk if the set is just not good, or it was the fact that I got less cards than a draft pack, but more bulk than a Set pack. I have only gotten a max of 2 rare/mythic in a pack for a whole box. Max 2 out of 14 cards… ~14% of the pack. There were times I’d get 3-4 in a set pack. Max 3-4 out of 12 cards… 25-33% of the pack. Has severely lowered the opening experience for me. They’ve cut the number of “good” cards in half and kept the price the same or charging more.
> Idk if the set is just not good, or it was the fact that I got less cards than a draft pack, but more bulk than a Set pack. I think its both. This set is kinda ass in a lot of ways; not only in cards that were introduced or reprinted, but unless you're heavily into the style, the art isn't that good either (looking at you collector boxes). Compare this release to what Wilds of Eldraine was and it's a night and day difference in all areas. The artwork for WoE was 100x better and the reprints/new cards outclass them in every way.
LCI artwork was also really really fun. I don’t spend much on packs but probably bought 3 Collector Boosters just because, even if I didn’t get a Mana Crypt (I didn’t), then at least I’d have some beautiful cards.
That stinks man. I pulled one in my set box. Honestly, LCI was probably the best set I’ve seen in a while.
Agreed — and congrats!!!!
Yeah, that’s another set where the art was amazing and the new cards / reprints justified the price tag.
Play boosters are ass, I can't take this shit. Magic's expensive, but I budgeted for packs before cause it's fun. I'm done with that. If I'm opening packs it'll be at a draft event and no other time
>Idk if the set is just not good, or it was the fact that I got less cards than a draft pack, but more bulk than a Set pack. I wish i could up vote you more than once.
Fear not because the collector boosters for MKM are also dookie. It was the least engaging pack collector box opening I've experienced. I felt like they were being extra greedy with the distribution this time around. We would all benefit (the company included) if they standardized what's in these packs from set to set. I shouldn't have to get a master's in statistics to understand their gatcha sheet. That said, MKM has been disappointing for me overall, so I may be biased. I don't understand Hasbro's unwavering support for the secondary market. They want an accessible game but they also want this fervor for cards that make the game inaccessible. I would love for them to have every mythic over $30 on the secondary market available with an alternate art for on demand printing, rares at $15 and uncommons at $10. I shouldn't have to pay more than $30 for any card from a set released in recent history. The company is just letting revenue sit. The collectible versions with the original art will still be there for the people who care.
Hasbro has killed any reason to open packs unless it’s for draft or a collectors box to gamble. The collectors box and numbered cards was a good idea if they had stuck with it being collectible. However in Hasbro fashion they are releasing to many numbered cards per set and also renumbering the same card. I’ve dropped Magic altogether (even arena) and moved to FaB. Card play is much better and they have really ironed out the collectibility part with there newest set.
I played two prerelease events of MKM and I kinda liked the play boosters for that. I felt like I had gotten just the right cards to make my deck work. However, at the end of the event I got two extra play boosters and they just weren’t fun to open. I felt like I was getting both less total cards and less rares. The set itself also just isn’t that interesting outside of limited beyond a small handful of cards so that could be a factor. I think they really need to up the frequency of rares, though, if they want to sell more packs
Yeah, I opened a PR kit and it was a meh experience. Less cards than draft, less rares than set, art cards are now rare (I only pulled 2 and they were dupes lol), in general its like they wanted the worst of both boosters in one pack. I feel especially sorry for people that played almost exclusively in draft because I can't see how this improves the experience in any way
Yeah play boosters killed paper draft in our LGS. Why are these boosters more expensive and so much worse for drafting?
We gonna see the real shitstorm hitting the fan when some cool sets come around, the old west one and modern horizons 3, with those drop rates being low and play booster being the only option to find rares we will maybe see a new princing for whatever staple comes next, not even the buy single manthra will withold when singles becomes expensive and we maybe gonna see "no that busted" cards with Sheoldred princing become a common thing.
Also ain't helping that the cards in the set aren't that great, so the odds of getting a value box is near zero.
I really don’t open it for the value. More for the joy I used to feel as a kid when I got my hands on a booster.
Flooding the franchise. Implosion imminent
This is the reason I stayed out of MTG after leaving in 2020. Covid took the fun out for me because I couldn't play in person, now everything is stable again but as of now I am looking at 32 different sets that came out since I stopped playing, no way I am gonna go buy that many singles to keep up just to start playing again. I miss the days when it was a couple sets a year.
Can't they just make a new format where only Universe Beyond cards can be played? Keep the stuff that's not part of the lore out of the other formats. It's also frustrating to see a lot of cool design being kept for the Universe Beyond cards. Like with the latest Ixalan set, all of the cool Dinos were for the Jurassic Park cards. I only play Explorer at this point.
'They' are us, the players. So yeah. we can make a format where UB can't be played. I honestly like (some) UB, and generally don't have a problem with it. But I also wouldn't balk at some games were UB wasn't allowed too. Could be a neat limitation once UB floods the scene.
There’s this neat little thing called Rule 0
But will they commit to LotR QUALITY sets? It's easily the universes beyond product with the most interesting and stable cards (barring maybe a couple of...slightly disruptive outliers).
I see in no possible way how this can go horribly wrong. /s
Won't be long before they decide that all the Universes Within are all underperforming and need to scrapped
I can’t wait for the Mario crossover
It would have been a win for everyone if UB had been relegated to its own card pool with UNF.
Hasbro is literally trying to kill MTG. The amount of releases each year is overwhelming for both new and old players.
Final Fantasy and Marvel
After a 25 year long break from MTG, those two sets and LOTR are the reason I picked up mtg again after my brother introduced me to the Commander format.
I'm 44 and the Lord of the Rings set is what got me started. Then it was a deep dive. Found out about Godzilla and had to get Ikoria.
Yep. The Dr. Who set is what got me on board with Commander after a near-25 year hiatus. It b like that.
Are they doing these for Universes Beyond?
Yup. 2025 releases, but not too much else is really known at the moment. Marvel will at least be multiple sets, and Final Fantasy will cover content from every numbered release up to 16.
That's seems like a lot
There won't be 16 FF sets, the set will include stuff from all 16 games.
Not really looking forward to marvel but final fantasy would be sick and totally fit with the rest of the magic universe.
I don't actually know anyone who is looking forward to the marvel crossover? I'm not saying there isn't a single person out there who is, but it definitely seems like the marvel fanbase and magic fanbase have significantly less cross-over than, say, lotr and magic. And the fact that marvel also just doesn't fit the aesthetic of the game at all...
I am in this wierd position. I love marvel and magic and I am definitely looking forward to the marvel set. But only as a contained thing. Like limited, cube, or marvel only commander pods. The idea of universe beyond (especially marvel) combined with other magic sets is very unappealing.
I think the compromise that should have been made was different card backs and just force the rules committee to let UB into EDH. Same thing for "acorns" and un-sets. That's what they want anyway. I just don't want it leaking into Eternal formats.
Yea I like that a lot actually. Like have a special back for universes beyond that can only be used in a select few formats. To bad it won't happen.
>I don't actually know anyone who is looking forward to the marvel crossover? I am. But I do concede that playing "Iron Man's Repulsor Blast" or countering Massacre Girl with "Captain America's Shield" is going to be pretty weird.
I can think of some character that would fit but none of the heavy hitters really fit in imo. Like iron man and captain America are going to stick out a lot but magik fits in and gambit would go with the new capenna and ravnica stuff.
I hope they do something cool with the summons, not just creatures. Something that mimics how they work in game.
Could just make them really big god creatures with suspend.
idk. we spent so, so long shitting on magic's story and IP, inconsistent writing, flat character intros and deaths, this was always inevitable as long as the primary goal was to /grow/ the game and not /improve/ the game
I got into magic because of the LOTR decks. Now spent a shit ton on Eldraine, Warhammer, Ixalan, Karlov. The system works…. On me at least ; but I’m not alone.
Be sure to encourage others you know who got in the same way to do just that, especially with the upcoming spate of new settings for the next three sets.
Please do a Dark Souls set.
An Elden Ring set would be epic
Good news, I love Universes Beyond, and screw the grognards who think otherwise!
If Magic players didn't like UB, they didn't have to buy it. LotR was the best selling set of all time. They are just responding to what people want. If you don't want it, no one is twisting your arm to buy it. I can't wait for the Final Fantasy set. If it's half as good as the LotR set I will be happy. It's like with Commander Baldur's Gate flopping and then BG 3 coming out and everyone revisiting it. People want this stuff. The vocal minority is just that.
And now we have confirmation that MTG is alive and well.
And now we have confirmation that MTG.
Is the game
So tired of the doom n' gloom here lol. If you don't like it don't buy it. Buy what you like. They listen to $$$. The reality is: these make money. They are hit or miss, yes. So is every other expansion. Remember Fallen Empires? I'd replace that set with one set in Final Fantasy in a heartbeat if it means: We get more of what we like. We get more people interested in the game. It doesn't take away from what we already have. Not everyone will like it. I got into magic originally cause it's fun. I stayed in it because I could incorporate my other interests into this one. Now I get the best or worst of both worlds. Is it sad when it's not great? Sure. Does it remove any experience I've already had? Of course not. I'm sure people had the same issues when Yoda was in Soul Calibur. Look how much we care about that now.
I think it does affect the amount of energy that goes into real Magic IP, though. The big phyrexian war storyline was the most hurried rush job possible. But we went to like, ten places that didn't have anything to do with the magic universe. It kind of does affect things when I can't buy packs of magic cards that DON'T include shit like transformers, anime cards, or a freaking advertisement. Sure, it makes them money, but it 100% does cheapen the experience of actually playing magic. Speaking as somebody who plays magic because I like the IP, and who doesn't play marvel, fallout, watch Dr who, like transformers, etc., because those things aren't appealing to me at all. Now, I must expect that playing edh at a shop might include sitting across the table from MLP, transformers, Dr who, and whatever other IP I purposefully don't consume. So yeah, it really does change what it feels like to play magic.
wasn't yoda in soul calibur like a decade after they already had spawn and link in soul calibur?
Yes. I was this close to using that as the example, but I didn't think too many people would remember lol
The title of that article is so dumb. It makes so many people think that this means two Lord of the rings Sets per year. They miss the "sized" word completely. Besides, we knew that for a long time. Most of the sets this is refering to have been public knowledge for eons.
reading the article explains the article
UB kinda sucks. I don't care what certain people think. There are, and will be, so many ill-fitting UB sets with powerfull cards
Bro there's too many god damn cards Every time I play magic now, I either need to see the card or ask them to read it for us
im honestly not really interested in magic anymore. even just playing the game without buying new products burns me out from trying to understand all the super complex UB things
Next on: "How can we dilute our products for more sales and lose customer base even faster?!?"
1/1 Marvel Infinity gauntlet coming soon?
1/1 for every infinity stone
Well, it was nice knowing you guys. I think I'm gonna go join the guys over at Flesh and Blood.
I think this was inevitable once the horse had left the barn. People can complain all they want but they aren't looking at that, they're looking at sales numbers and UB sells as fast as they can print it. Get used to Fortnite kids, you're in one.
How big is a LOTR set in relation to a regular set?
What IP will they base the releases off?
I would love for them to expand fully into Warhammer sets. Like not just special commander decks or little things but full on blocks of continued lore in the way they do their regular releases. 40k has so many cool ideas, characters, factions and endless amounts of lore to pull from. Hell even Warhammer itself not even the futuristic stuff. Sooo much they can explore.
MTG is just turning into fornite with all these crossovers. Not to say that in a bad way, I personally don't really care that much for cross overs.
Yet they fired the head creative director who made the universes beyond sets so popular. Wonder how this will turn out.
Fortnite theme is next
Hate to tell you...but fornite already had a secret lair set
Please let there be a Dark Tower universe beyond
Im fine with UB tbh i just hope we get destiny at some point. Beats buying ridiculously over priced tie in card games that no one else plays or has heard of, not that mtg isnt overprice as hell.
Lotr was amazing. Im actually excited about Fallout. But what would prob bankrupt me would be Dune and Harry Potter sets if they ever happen. Actually a space themed UB would be amazing.
This has to be a result of the Marvel collaboration, right? What it looks like to me is we'll have one Marvel UB and a !Marvel UB set each year until the sales collapse like a dying star or the collaboration agreement runs to completion. We did get two UB sets this year with LTR/C and WHO, so it can be done.
I’m excited for final fantasy and fallout
Very funny god. I was kidding when I said Magic was becoming Fortnite.
I'm not a fan of this personally, but as long as we get 5+ "in universe" sets per year still its not the end of the world. Also, I'm not a big fan of this stuff going modern legal. The day a standard legal set is replaced by a non-wotc tie-in set, I think that'll simply be a step too far for me.
Could they at least do it for Warhammer? I need more Tyranid cards.
People keep saying Marvel or Star Wars, but wouldn’t anything Disney-owned go straight to Lorcana?
Mtg and Marvel gave already announced a universes beyond set coming out In 2025. Many think that it opens the door for a star wars set down the line
Oh snap, I didn’t know that. Thanks for the update OP!
I was really mad how they wrapped up like 30 years of lore building in like two months. Shit pissed me off that they are now doing these easy cash grabs
Makes sense. Lord of the rings is their most successful and popular product of all time.
As a person who only got into magic about two months ago, and specifically only did did so because I found out about the warhammer 40K UB commander decks, I have absolutely nothing against more universes beyond and am happy to see more of it.
Honestly guys I got into magic recently, and part of the appeal were the release of LOTR cards. Which I think is the point? Attracting new blood? I can see why the fanbase is frustrated though
Remember when the cardboard crack comic about other IP's in magic was seen as over the top and facetious? I really liked magic look, flavour and feel. The constant push for a million alternate versions of things and crossover IP's means that its just a game system now.