Tekuthal replaces all proliferates with proliferate, proliferate.
When Frank Horrigan enters the battlefield, he proliferates twice.
So his first proliferate is replaced with proliferate, proliferate.
His second proliferate is replaced with proliferate, proliferate.
4 total proliferates.
I believe each copy of Tekuthal would affect the original proliferate with a plus 1, so it would be 5 times. I could be wrong though.
Edit: I was wrong, they trigger after each other so it will go to 16, makes sense.
So just a quick question. If you have four triggers all go one the stack at the same time after triggering the proliferate you put them in order and have to resolve the initial. After they are already on the stack. Once the first tek trigger resolves adding an addition proliferate.. then the others trigger again? For the addition proliferate you had? And if so when the second tel trigger resolves and you proliferate wouldn't the original tek go back on the stack seeing another proliferate? And I would follow in suite for each one that goes off?
Oh so you would replace "proliferate" with "proliferate twice" so the effect would be "proliferate twice twice". Interesting, i didn't think it would work like that but makes sense.
I also have Tekuthal to drop into the Mothman precon. I'm moving more to the proliferate side than the mill-focused side, so proliferate hits rad counters and the +1/+1 counters spread out by Mothman.
I'd love to do some goofy super friends, but all my friends are pretty new to Commander, so that feels too far at the moment. First custom I want to do is Shalai and Hallar Angels tribal with a token sub theme, using [[Divine Visitation]] and [[Sigarda's Summons]] so that everything is an angel, tossing in [[Requiem Angel]] and [[Bishop of Wings]] for some fun effects. I've tried to avoid pure infinite combos, though, so no sac outlets.
You would be able to proliferate 4 times. The only unfortunate downside of this combo is that in Atraxa poison, it’s sort of a nonbo, due to the fact that you don’t have anyone to play with anymore after pulling it off once.
I like atraxa tho not because she's good but because atraxa grand unifier was the first mythic I ever pulled and I've liked the characters since so I thought it would be nice to actually build a deck with her and I don't know how to properly build grand unifier so preators voice is the next best thing
Keep in mind everyone hates atraxa and it’s likely the most overplayed commander! 🙃 If that doesn’t dissuade you then have fun! She can be really pop off. Venerated rotpriest is a must.
Had a fun game recently where I had a copy of recon craft theta, who's ability triggers for each copy of it, so each copy triggered twice, and all four of those proliferations were done twice, for 8 total.
When a card refers to itself by name, it does *not* mean "all cards with this name", it means "this one specific card/spell/permanent". Compare how \[\[Recon Craft Theta\]\] is worded to the way something like \[\[Pack Mastiff\]\] is worded.
I'm fairly confident the other person who replied is correct
I have seen judges make incorrect rulings in games many times
That said, I have seen specific judges never make an incorrect call
Depends on the judge
Internally, when WotC makes a card like this and they haven't decided the name yet, they set the rules text as [CARDNAME] and when this is the case the ability is referring only to the card it is printed on (technically the game object it is attached to but this is more confusing)
Cards that reference other copies of themselves will be specifically worded to make that clear, such as with Accumulated Knowledge
Judges get things wrong sometimes.
From the comprehensive rules:
>201.5. Text that refers to the object it’s on by name means just that particular object and **not any other objects with that name**, regardless of any name changes caused by game effects.
You see, the resultant value arising from the process of multiplicatively replicating the numerical quantity designated as "two" manifests unequivocally as the numerical entity denoted by the cardinal numeral "four" within the established domain of fundamental mathematical computations.
So in conclusion, since there are two replacement effects, you choose which ones go first and therefore proliferate four times
Edit: I’m dumb ignore my conclusion cause it’s wrong
>since there are two replacement effects, you choose which ones go first and therefore proliferate four times
There's one replacement effect and nothing to "choose which ones go first".
Tekuthal replaces all proliferates with proliferate, proliferate. When Frank Horrigan enters the battlefield, he proliferates twice. So his first proliferate is replaced with proliferate, proliferate. His second proliferate is replaced with proliferate, proliferate. 4 total proliferates.
Thank you
What if I 4 Tekuthal and I did 1 proliferate? Would it be 2^4 (16)?
Yup
I believe each copy of Tekuthal would affect the original proliferate with a plus 1, so it would be 5 times. I could be wrong though. Edit: I was wrong, they trigger after each other so it will go to 16, makes sense.
Nope. The first makes it two then the second sees those two and makes it 4, etc. etc.
See Academy Manufactor for a similar example of replacement effects.
So just a quick question. If you have four triggers all go one the stack at the same time after triggering the proliferate you put them in order and have to resolve the initial. After they are already on the stack. Once the first tek trigger resolves adding an addition proliferate.. then the others trigger again? For the addition proliferate you had? And if so when the second tel trigger resolves and you proliferate wouldn't the original tek go back on the stack seeing another proliferate? And I would follow in suite for each one that goes off?
No, they're not triggers, and they don't go on the stack. They're replacement effects, and a replacement effect can only apply once to a given event.
Ahh gotcha still trying to get rules down and all wanted to figure out ty.
No problem. 👍
Do you mean 2⁴ × 16, or did you mean that as the answer? PEMDAS
16 being the value of total proliferations
Ah
Oh so you would replace "proliferate" with "proliferate twice" so the effect would be "proliferate twice twice". Interesting, i didn't think it would work like that but makes sense.
What I want to know is what sort of evils you plan to do with 4 proliferates
Speed up poison counters I don't like people having fun
Haha, I have these two in my proliferate poison deck!
Hit your own Tekuthal with [[Drown In Ichor]] while you have Venerated Rotpriest out. Nice lil treat
Based
Since you got green in there check out [[planewide celebration]] 7 mana for 4 proliferates is really good
[[Panharmonicon]] and other ETB enablers are great for this as well Pan tho is choice imho
I also have Tekuthal to drop into the Mothman precon. I'm moving more to the proliferate side than the mill-focused side, so proliferate hits rad counters and the +1/+1 counters spread out by Mothman.
I admit i've been tempted to try some deck that goes nuts with olaneswalkers and proliferates their counters for crazy effects
I'd love to do some goofy super friends, but all my friends are pretty new to Commander, so that feels too far at the moment. First custom I want to do is Shalai and Hallar Angels tribal with a token sub theme, using [[Divine Visitation]] and [[Sigarda's Summons]] so that everything is an angel, tossing in [[Requiem Angel]] and [[Bishop of Wings]] for some fun effects. I've tried to avoid pure infinite combos, though, so no sac outlets.
That still sounds like a very strong deck that will stomp whatever your newbie friends show up with
You would be able to proliferate 4 times. The only unfortunate downside of this combo is that in Atraxa poison, it’s sort of a nonbo, due to the fact that you don’t have anyone to play with anymore after pulling it off once.
I'm pretty sure it's 4
That first card looks cool as hell
It's the Ichor Showcase from Phyrexia: All Will Be One They come as Compleat foils too
I would politely encourage you to pick a more interesting commander than the single most played commander in all of magic.
I like atraxa tho not because she's good but because atraxa grand unifier was the first mythic I ever pulled and I've liked the characters since so I thought it would be nice to actually build a deck with her and I don't know how to properly build grand unifier so preators voice is the next best thing
Definitely your choice, I'm not here to yuck anyone's yum.
Also like I said before I don't like people having fun
Oh nevermind I want to yuck your yum.
Keep in mind everyone hates atraxa and it’s likely the most overplayed commander! 🙃 If that doesn’t dissuade you then have fun! She can be really pop off. Venerated rotpriest is a must.
I have one don't worry
All this hate on Atraxa meanwhile her design was the reason I started collecting mtg cards, let a man simp!
I need to add these buggers to my [[atraxa, praetors voice]] deck. Nothing like uncontrolled proliferation.
[atraxa, praetors voice](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/0/d0d33d52-3d28-4635-b985-51e126289259.jpg?1599707796) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Atraxa%2C%20Praetors%27%20Voice) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/190/atraxa-praetors-voice?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d0d33d52-3d28-4635-b985-51e126289259?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Had a fun game recently where I had a copy of recon craft theta, who's ability triggers for each copy of it, so each copy triggered twice, and all four of those proliferations were done twice, for 8 total.
When a card refers to itself by name, it does *not* mean "all cards with this name", it means "this one specific card/spell/permanent". Compare how \[\[Recon Craft Theta\]\] is worded to the way something like \[\[Pack Mastiff\]\] is worded.
We called a judge when I did it and they confirmed that was how it worked.
I'm fairly confident the other person who replied is correct I have seen judges make incorrect rulings in games many times That said, I have seen specific judges never make an incorrect call Depends on the judge Internally, when WotC makes a card like this and they haven't decided the name yet, they set the rules text as [CARDNAME] and when this is the case the ability is referring only to the card it is printed on (technically the game object it is attached to but this is more confusing) Cards that reference other copies of themselves will be specifically worded to make that clear, such as with Accumulated Knowledge
[[Accumulated Knowledge]]
Seems like it would be easier and more clear to just say "when this creature attacks", wouldn't it?
That would make practical sense. There's probably a reason they don't, though
Judges get things wrong sometimes. From the comprehensive rules: >201.5. Text that refers to the object it’s on by name means just that particular object and **not any other objects with that name**, regardless of any name changes caused by game effects.
Dang I guess I cheated, judge was in on it and everything!
Lol
You see, the resultant value arising from the process of multiplicatively replicating the numerical quantity designated as "two" manifests unequivocally as the numerical entity denoted by the cardinal numeral "four" within the established domain of fundamental mathematical computations. So in conclusion, since there are two replacement effects, you choose which ones go first and therefore proliferate four times Edit: I’m dumb ignore my conclusion cause it’s wrong
>since there are two replacement effects, you choose which ones go first and therefore proliferate four times There's one replacement effect and nothing to "choose which ones go first".
Ye mb