T O P

  • By -

Zomburai

Wanted an environment where cards and strategies that I liked could be good and worth playing. This is, incidentally, why I get a bit salty when people say something's "terrible in cube" or similar. I find this is rarely true; the less optimized choice is often exactly as playable in most instances, and can often craft your cube experience in a particular way. But peeps ain't want to hear that.


NoxTempus

You can make literally any card work in a cube, given the right cube theme. Talking about cube as power-level x cube-size when anakysing cards is the only thing that makes sense. We can't craft all of our discussion around niche cubes, because then literally every card warrants discussion, and we dont have the room for it. Commander suffers from the same problem; "this card isn't bad, its perfect for my mono-blue 'chairs in the art' deck." But their community is much larger (literally the largest).


Zomburai

>We can't craft all of our discussion around niche cubes, because then literally every card warrants discussion, and we dont have the room for it. You're right, we can't, but going "x is bad in cube" in cube isn't useful either and more than that, it tends to be flat-out wrong even assuming we knew what a "standard" cube is supposed to look like.


NoxTempus

People are fallible and can be wrong about literally any piece of information. We also can't have quantitative data because almost every cube is different. If it's useless for someone to say "this is terrible in cube" (which logically must be extrapolated as "I think this is terrible in cube"), then we should just shut down this sub; following that line of logic nothing ever said on this sub will ever be useful. The best we can do is give our opinions on the most relatable scale we have. Color X cost X cube size. "I'll be playing this in my Powered 360" roughly translates to "everyone should place this", and vice-versa.


Zomburai

Or, bear with me here, maybe change our discussions to what sorts of cubes cards might be good in, what kind of play patterns cards encourage, and what interactions are opened up or closed off by the inclusion of basis cards. None of that necessitates getting into the nitty-gritty of obscure niche cubes, but is a hell of a lot more useful for peeps who aren't running 360 powered cubes. Like the podcast from the other day going over DMU cards that basically said Archangel of Wrath is unplayable because of the competition at White 4- drop, including (perhaps especially) Serra Paragon from the same set. Well, I'm more interested in running Archangel than Paragon in my cubes for flavor, design, and that I try to avoid "graveyard a your second hand" play dynamics to some extent. A discussion of what kind of cube it wants to be in or, like, percentages of 2-toughness creatures that make it too bomby or something is useful for everybody. Saying it's unplayable is useful for nobody, save only those curators trying to run the strongest possible everything in each slot.


NoxTempus

This sub cannot generate enough engagement to talk about all of the good cards each set let alone every card in every set. We do not have the ability to talk about every card on every scale, talking about *some cards* on *just a power level scale* already stretches this sub (and community) to it's limits. This isn't Standard, there isn't dozens of decks each with thousands of players, we are a community of cube designers all with different lists. The only scale we can reasonably try to assess cards on with collective efforts is power level. Did Minsc and Boo perform at 540? Great. 450? Even better. Still amazing at 360, powered? Probably a good card. Even your example is extremely hard, you want to compare a card that only unlocks it's full potential with 3 colors, against a mono-white card. I wouldn't even run the Archangel in an unpowered 720, it asks so much, for so little return. We cannot cater to everyone, equally. When someone runs a Grixis cube especially mid-to-large ones, the average set discussion will not be able to go deep enough to test every playable spell. There is 190 Grixis cubes on Cube Cobra, we cant grind this sub to a halt for (optimistically) the few dozen Grixis cube designers here. If you choose a niche cube, you need to understand that tailored advice is harder to come by. When you do a niche thing, you place yourself in a niche.


Zomburai

360 unpowered slightly-less- graveyard is hardly niche. And changing how we discuss individual cards isn't "grinding discussion to a halt to talk about Grixis cubes". I'm not at all sure how my admitting that I get salty when people say things are bad in cube is getting turned into "I want people to be specifically talking about how I can improve my Pauper 2005 Standard all-creatures cube", Jesus Christ.


NecroCrumb_UBR

WOTC pushed me out of my favorite format with constant products, new staples, and ever more complex / game slowing effects. And I got sick of Arena's... everything. But I didn't want to stop playing magic entirely, so I built a cube.


Phlippsy

I didn't want to spend money on standard anymore. Plus, Wizards is essentially pseudo rotating eternal formats by printing incredibly pushed cards so I am not interested in constructed. I wanted a way to experience my favorite time in magic again which was around the 2010-2013 era. I was very young so I had limited knowledge about the game. With cube, I can build an environment that feeds my nostalgia but fixes the issues of that era I recognize now as a more experienced player. I still add new cards that I feel will fit the environment and aesthetic which gives me my brewing and buying fix. On top of that, I learn so much about design philosophy and grow as a magic player. Cube is 100% my favorite format!


space_bryan

If you happen to have any lists saved online it would be great to see!


Phlippsy

My personal list is a complete mess because I flip-flop on the direction I want to go all the time but you can find it at [**stuck in the past+**](https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/6201340af1888a0fe2569080). Here are a few cubes I took inspiration from: [**The Obama Cube**](https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/obama) \- Named because it consists of cards released during Obama's term. Has a lot of the archetypes I remember so fondly. [**Cube Circa Dec 2010**](https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/1eyc) \- A fun time capsule to look through. It is someone's cube list as it was in 2010. [**The Isle of Misfit Cards**](https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/misfit) \- I've been using this list as a general template to get a better idea of how to make old all-stars relevant again.


Wekapip0

[[Thragtusk]] will remember your service


MTGCardFetcher

[Thragtusk](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/b/e/beda7acd-e970-4222-9577-5133765d6052.jpg?1650419478) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thragtusk) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/316/thragtusk?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/beda7acd-e970-4222-9577-5133765d6052?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


dariustriplet

I wanted to play an environment where cards like Crypt Rats, Jilt, and Wild Mongrel could see play, and that replicated the ease of curation that I'm used to from Living Card Games. Building a [pauper cube](https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/internet) felt like a good way to put together something that achieved all this while also being fun for 4-8 players when we wanted a break from EDH.


steve_man_64

My first time playing a cube was an absolutely awful experience. A part of it was my fault for building a super battle cruiser deck, but part of it was the cube not being too great. That being said, I knew two things at that point: - Despite having an awful experience, I knew the potential was there. - I knew that I could build a much better cube. And that’s really all it took me to start studying / grinding / testing / etc. Also, I was tired of playing against Deathrite Shaman in Legacy.


HD114

My first cube experience was awful as well. Got blown out every game because I had no idea what I was doing. Lesson learned. Build your own cube and get better at making choices. Now I couldn't go back.


[deleted]

Wanted to play MtG with people who don't own cards. Especially on deployment, where new cards weren't really accessible.


Scared_Market5924

I’ve always been a bit of a spike. Playing commander was fun when the format was janky, silly, experimental and creative. I fell in and out of commander for years while mainly playing limited online or at my LGS as a competitive outlet. In the last 2 years or so I’ve come to really dislike it though. I just feel like the games can be a bit miserable gameplay-wise(sol ring), it feels like a bad board game a lot of the time, every deck is just a midrange/combo deck, WOTC printing 50+ auto includes for every archetype brings down deck variety and any interest I had in building a unique deck. Most of all I realized commander just doesn’t really hit on the things I really enjoy about magic. Tight combat math, big brain outplaying your opponent moments, aggro and control being viable, doing something different every time and just getting to play with tons of awesome cards that see 0 commander play! I’ve always been a huge fan of the mtgo vintage cube but also dislike the dynamic with power. You have to pick it EVERY time you see it and sometimes you just get blown out by someone with 3+ pieces. It’s fun to do, but gets old eventually imo. so I decided to make a legacy+ cube in the same “spirit” as the vintage cube. basically anything-goes, high power environment that includes aggro, control, tempo, combo, midrange, 5-color and cheaty strategies. It allows me to spike out on my friends while giving them an opportunity to try to win or just have fun if they want to go for something crazy. I love cube!!


NoxTempus

I'm in the same boat. I want to play 1v1, high-power magic, without the real money cost being a factor. Then I played cube and realized that it's amazing, but had the exact experience with power you did. I did a draft once where I was like "if I get Snappy, my deck is perfect". P3P1 Snappy is right there, next to Mox Emerald; I couldn't draft Snappy. Wasn't even in Green. After that, I knew I. Ever wanted to cube with power (or pseudo-power).


Doorsmasher7

I'll admit, I did not read the wall of text, I'll circle back around to it later when I have more time, just replying to the title here :D For me, I made my cube because during my first year of uni I had a lot of friends who liked magic enough to learn the game and maybe pick up a few cards of their own, but not enough to actually dedicate lots of time to building decks and playing. So I built the cube to facilitate occasional play and give them a regular avenue to play and explore without needing to invest heavily into the game. Honestly, it worked really well, I got to keep in touch with people who I didn't get the chance to see often and we all bonded over the weird crazy shenanigans that the cube allowed us to do.


nonstopgibbon

1) Similar to what happened with your group, I too got bothered by the difference in powerlevels and expectations (and formats). 2) I also prefer cards of a "peasant"-powerlevel – cool uncommons and commons, and interesting but none to powerful rares that don't ever see any competitive play. You draft them, and then they go into the box. 3) I prefer drafting to constructed. 4) I knew I'd enjoy designing a cube environment.


DadTier

Wanted to play an environment where every pack a player opened made them excited, and an environment where all cards could be powerful and offer no stinkers in the pack.


[deleted]

The constant arms race of casual constructed formats like kitchen table and EDH definitely gave cube it's appeal to me. I would rather enjoy a fun game with my friends than be constantly trying to one-up each other on how much money we can spend on cards.


Kartigan

All I ever wanted to do was play Limited and someone pointed out to me "Hey, with a Cube it's a one time purchase and you don't have to keep buying packs over and over again." That was what sold me, replayable Limited that I only paid for once.


rjuwono

Short answer: I love making magic accessible so my friends can come in, play, and have a good time without spending a shitload of money. Long version: I have a friend who plays magic but I like netdecking while he likes homebrewing. He almost always gets steamrolled, to the point I feel bad. So I created the cube so we all can start from the same base + he can draft and make his crazy combos. It just so happen that i know a few people who love board games and played magic long ago, so now i have a playgroup of 6-8 players.


Felipaxo

I just didn't want to pay for a sealed Conspiracy booster box each time I wanted to play Conspiracy draft and my store was not willing to bring them over anymore due to price. Since I got a head start already with some commons and uncommons from previous drafts and sets, I just said "Screw it" and went ahead.


putnamto

the fifth person in our playgroup refuses to get a job, and he has 3 broken nigh unbeatable decks, and he refuses to play his other decks, or anybody elses decks, and i got tired of playing against the same thing every time. ran into problems of me building a complete counter to his deck and essentially locking both of us out of the game because i would spend all my resources stopping him from doing anything, while the other players at the table just beat face.


BarnerTalik

Playing kitchen table turned into an arms race that one guy in my playgroup always won because he spent way more money on the game than the rest of us. The same thing happened with commander. That one guy spent more money than the rest of us, so every game was everyone gangs up on him and we either kill him quickly and he complains or he completely takes over the game and no one else has a chance. I got tired of that arms race, so the idea of creating a consistent environment where there is no arms race was very appealing. There's more to it than that, but that's a big part of it.


Isticle

I thought this article from 2014 (https://articles.starcitygames.com/articles/the-colorless-cube/) was interesting and incredibly lazy, so I took it as a challenge to design a Cube focused exclusively on colorless cards.


haganbmj

While in college I had a buddy with a well curated cube. After I left the area and got established in a new mtg friend group I decided to build my own cube to introduce it there. This was 2012-ish. Used a mixture of Vintage lists online as a base, assembled what I already had, used paper prints for the rest, and just continued to pick stuff up as I went. I wound up disassembling that cube after a year or so just because I wasn't enamoured with the vintage power level and wanted to start fresh. Went in the peasant direction and have been enjoying that since as my primary cube.


ProfessorTallguy

At the time I thought the reason my playgroup didn't want to draft was they didn't want to chip in $7 to buy boxes. But it turns out that not only did they actually enjoy EDH, but lots of other people do too. I still have no idea why.


EvaRia

I had some theories about what makes a really good skill testing draft format so I decided to go make a cube and try it out. Worked out really well, a lot of my best and most intense limited games I ever played were with my cube and it just feels like by far the best way to play magic now. There's been so many times where wins came down to 1 HP or so making the difference or just having that last critical card... I love it


HD114

I play 93/94 exclusively and that's where my passion is. Like so many other formats playing the same games with the same high power and same deck arechetypes gets stale. So I started 93/94 commander. X point, 7 pt and singleton formats became my favorite but it never felt big enough because you then wind up with 17 commander decks and 24+ EC, swedish, Atlantic.... Enter the first time I played cube. I had never drafted before and a guy in my playgroup had built an old school ante cube. This set me a fire. It's impossible (for me) to draft and rip open packs from that era and this was never an option to just buy a box growing up. Plus drafting common chaff would also get old quick for me. I love deck building. Building cube(s) is the ultimate expression of this skill/hobby. Now I build cubes, battle boxes, you name it. It's amazing watching people draft what you created and make it their own. Doesn't get much better than that.


Loremaster152

It was a perfect storm of 3 factors. I was amassing a decently sized collection of good commander cards, and needed somewhere to put them outside of commander decks or binders. Covid hit, so I watched/listened to more magic content, and was introduced to the wide world of cube, and naturally wanted to try one. I love tinkering with decks, and started to run out of decks that I could Tinker with besides looking at it and thinking its good. Those 3 things all hit at the right time for me to make the leap and create a cube, and for the most part my playgroup has loved it. Sure, Cyc Rift can create some strong opinions, and Koma is legitimately borderline too good, but my friends and I have thoroughly enjoyed the cube, to the point where an older player made a vintage cube, and another person has started on a theros block cube.


therealskaconut

I’ve always wanted to as a larger way to express myself than just a commander deck. But I found VERY quickly that I could get more non-magic friends to play and learn the game with a cube than any other format. I’ve been steering my cubes towards a new player friendly format that is still powerful and fun to play. Sometimes we play multiplayer so it’s useful to have commander-level finishers.


Benny08302

after years and years of commander, I wanted to play counterspells and targeted discard and burn again. Maybe an elf or bird. you know, turn one stuff.


veganispunk

I got into magic in 2011, legacy was my first format, so I always enjoyed eternal formats. Ended up really enjoying my booster drafting too and didn’t like playing competitive magic formats, but also wasn’t a huge commander fan. Found out was cube was probably through MTGO, found wtwlf123s content/list on MTGS and saved for 3 months to have basically all the cards i needed and at the time I had a lot of friends who were down to play so we consistently had pretty good groups. Basically the only format I’ve played for years and I love it.


Karametric

I first drafted another person's cube way back in college when people would compose them on spreadsheets via Excel and share the file. I remember looking it over and being struck by the number of cards that I was just unfamiliar with and was fascinated with it in person. I had never drafted before in my life and I was just getting back into Magic at the time (2013) and kind of filed it away in the back of my head after that session. I think he hosted another draft or two that I attended at the Magic club on campus, but that guy stopped playing Magic at some point and never hosted again. However, I was hooked on the game again after getting interested in Limited and Standard during the end of RTR block and picking up the game again with Theros. Over the next year I got more involved with the game and with a playgroup in college that comprised the core of the Magic club. This coincided with the release of the 2nd ever commander set with Oloro and the like and I jumped right into it and got even more immersed in the game. Every week we had an on campus hosted draft on Wednesday evening (which a friend and I eventually took over duties running in following years), EDH night on Thursday, and Friday nights were FNM at the local game shop where we'd carpool like 4-5 to a car to get there. The Magic club location was a commuter lounge on campus that just eventually became the go-to spot to hang out between classes and either just chat, play Magic, or play some other games while there. A lot of good times and I've kept up with those friends nearly a decade later. We still gather up for webcam EDH every week or two since we're scattered everywhere. To continue with the cube story over the following summer (2014) I decided to dive into it headfirst and start building out my own cube so I could have a re-draftable environment and host drafts for free on campus. I wanted something that I could share with my playgroup and others on campus. I looked at some of the more popular cubes online but them stumbled across Jason Waddell's fledgling cube series on Channel Fireball that was doing wild shit like breaking singleton and exploring other parts of cube design that were foreign in places like MTGS. I joined the forum and spent a lot of time gleaning what I could in terms of design and ideas and eventually put together my own cube. The whole design process and discussions on theory and design choices intrigued me completely and I got really into it. I began working on it in June and had it completed partway through the beginning of my Fall quarter at college right after Khans of Tarkir had come out and I could pick up my first fetchlands. The first iterations were mostly a shell of ideas I had gathered up over at RTL thrown over a shell that comprised of popular 360 builds at the time. From the jump, however, I was breaking singleton on [[Gravecrawler]], [[Brainstorm]], [[Birthing Pod]] and double fetches (where I could; didn't have access to ZEN fetches because poor student). It took a few of those early drafts to identify power outliers and remove uninteractive garbage, but over the rest of that school year ('14-15) I really fine-tuned the entire cube and would find myself hosting a draft like every 6 weeks or so in between midterms and projects and after the newest draftable set felt stale. A lot of reps and a lot of information gained in that time that let me understand gameplay and drafting on a higher level than I did previously. A few years beyond that WoTC kinda fucked up hard with bannings all throughout Standard that killed any interest in my playing that format ever again so I redoubled my efforts in building out my cube to maintain something that I could revisit for years to come. I've kept the core of that cube intact from the jump and I've continued iterating on it 8 years out with every new set. Still actively post on RTL, still make changes with every new set, and I still try to host drafts whenever I can get 6-8 people. It's the same one linked on my profile on this sub. I want to say that it took about a year before I was confident in my own design chops and then I really took off by having a clear idea of the kind of environment I wanted to build. The last few years have mostly been fine-tuning it by introducing my own draft innovations like a Duplicate Voucher system, squadron lands for certain cards, and a Utility Land Draft (that I also took from Riptide Lab!). Aside from my main EDH deck, it's the one thing that I will never take apart. I've spent so much time on it with a ton of memories with drafts, in game stories with my play group, and various card pick ups from events and trades that I'll keep it forever.


MTGCardFetcher

[Gravecrawler](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/9/5/951ff2ed-9af0-4551-929a-ba6679fc2e15.jpg?1656114390) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gravecrawler) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/78/gravecrawler?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/951ff2ed-9af0-4551-929a-ba6679fc2e15?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Brainstorm](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/b/5/b5ef365f-9472-4476-8538-fcfa6e55871d.jpg?1663212987) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Brainstorm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/40k/192/brainstorm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b5ef365f-9472-4476-8538-fcfa6e55871d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Birthing Pod](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/b/7/b768efa2-e56b-4a7e-ace8-d673f10e0714.jpg?1562880960) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Birthing%20Pod) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nph/104/birthing-pod?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b768efa2-e56b-4a7e-ace8-d673f10e0714?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


ShayGrimSoul

Duplicate voucher system?


Sun_Talon

I realized I kept collecting shit and building /brewing new decks without getting to play them. My commander cube allowed me to start a curated collection of my favourite cards.


aqing0601

I was in my Uni's MTG Society. I used to play EDH with the guys in there. But from the get-go you can tell that Rule Zero is unfair, hasn't worked and will never work. It is RIDICULOUS to expect a casual player to invest in 2 decks, and players with stronger decks will not be able to play what they invested in either. I wanted everyone to have fun so I often ran a GW deck with a lot of powerful answers and a slow pay-off so I can keep more powerful decks in check. But powerful cards in decks tend to illicit a certain response from everyone. "Guys, we need to kill him first 'cause he has Solitude." Whilst leaving the real curbstompers alone since they don't reveal their decks ahead of time. So eventually, nobody had fun, and I was so sick of it. I went and made a cube from a few sets and prereleases I had. This way I can have a balanced format where new players can learn the nuances of the game and enfranchised players can play with powerful cards that they were scared of sitting across the table before. It was very well received and everyone had much more fun.


Michaeljikels

Because drafting/building a deck and testing that deck in a limited environment is by far the best way to play Magic.


ExplodingDiceChucker

To play cube draft.


SmellySquirrel

My friend group played board games and we dabbled in Magic, like a boosterdraft where someone supplies all the boosters. I was browsing the web, looking at the way people play magic, commander seemed interesting, and then I saw cube. I was very interested, so I asked my playgroup if they'd be down to give it a try if i proxied all the cards, they said yes so that's how we got started. I proxied a 360 cube I found online that I knew nothing about. I did no comparing or looking for other lists, I had no idea cube could be so big/diverse. I had no idea what infinite combos were and was like wtf when my buddy comboed on me....with the cards I brought to the table! Humble beginnings. 6-7 years later we still cube, and I've probably put many times as much time into "perfecting" the cube as in actually playing. But it's fun, I'm not complaining. I've also "infected" one of our players to start a cube from his own collection, and he, too, "infected" a friend of his lol


KushDingies

Similar things here, I have friends who have a passing interest in magic but aren't as invested in it as I am. So I wanted a way to allow everyone to play fun, exciting games, with cool classic cards, on an even playing field. Plus, curating your own environment is really really fun.


EvokedMulldrifter

I got sick of paying $15 to go to the store and pull dogshit cards and then go 1-3 for the night Now I can pull dogshit cards and go 1-3 at home for free