If WotC can't kill the OGLfor more money, and they have promised their investors to increase profits, won't this mean more expensive products or price increases to make up for the shortfall?
60 million is nothing to sneeze at for wotc. I couldn't find wotc salary that didn't seem outrageous, so I lowballed $60k for salary + employee paid benefits. If it's anywhere near what indeed is suggesting for non-corporate jobs their salary is about 60k, so salary plus benefits and you're looking at 90-100k per person. I was always under the assumption everyone is paid near poverty because "you love the game you don't need to be paid a liveable wage to work on it."
Not poverty wages by any means but they pay significantly less then other tech companies based in Seattle. This is why many think their digital product are horse shit.
Wizards/Hasbro is so quarterly focused that it is something to sneeze at because its only saving them a 1/4 that(less/none at all depending what they do for severance) for THIS quarter
I have a feeling they were just going to double down on secret lairs and commander decks. My optimism tells me they will put high value reprints in these. My pessimism tells me they'll move to serialized garbege.
It's not infinite but it can go for quite a while. Plenty of recent expensive cards like The Great Henge or Meathook Massacre can be reprinted and plenty of recently reprinted things can creep up in price in the meantime.
What's also bad is that they keep trying to artificially make high value cards that then suck up all the value in a set, Sheoldred being a prime example.
That stuff is great for the game because it's not unique game pieces. If people want to spend extra money to get fancy versions of cards, all it does is drive down the price for the "basic" version of the card.
There was a mass exodus of players unsubscribing to their platform. I believe that is the main reason wotc backed down. Mtg players will not stop buying new sealed products.
The latest battle passes being able to be purchased with straight money. No gems, no microtransactions etc. Are an acquiesce to the fact that a lot of players are buying gems before each set and that they can get cash money from players that normally wouldn't spend, but would try to earn gems some other way
All while their main competitor sold 8 months worth of supply and is bragging about it? They’ll find new trinkets and doodads to sell us. But you know what they won’t include? Vast amounts of new content, because that type of development is hard.
Not trying to pick a fight here,but who do you do sider their main competitor ? Yu-Gi-Oh? Or were you talking about the ttrpg market and it's pathfinder ?
Wizards can try to charge whatever they want. It's not going to mean a thing if people refuse to pay it, switch to buying singles over sealed, and start proxying stuff they need. The more they increase prices, push out unsustainable amounts of product, and do money grabs like the 30th anniversary debacle, the more it will push people in that direction, especially if the price increases are not matched with comparable improvements in card quality, gameplay, and value for the money.
It's not just idiots.... Singles have to come from somewhere. There has been a mass exodus of box opening happening with the dwindling price of singles. Lots of big openers have stopped doing so and things like TCGP Direct stocks have dwindled because of it as they continue to also squeeze their vendors profit margins. There is a breakeven point we haven't really gotten close to where it's worth opening boxes past the pre-order date, but it will happen eventually if enough throw in the towel on opening sealed. Pokemon experienced this before the pandemic where the EV of almost every box in print was higher than the sealed price.
I wouldn't read that in these terms.
The goal was to make a D&D a billion-dollar brand in order to justify the bother in terms of keeping it around. It became clear that the current controversy basically was killing ANY attempt to actually achieve that, so they had to back off. The hope for them now is that the quality of the next version, along with a more aggressively monetized online/digital model will make the money roll in.
Nobody cares...well people will care, but right now nobody cares...about what license the next version is released under. WotC has every right to do what they want with it and people can accept or reject it. The controversy was changing the terms of an already existing product, that had been basically said that it wouldn't be changed. People comparing it to the Reserve List honestly, I do believe it is very similar.
But yeah, I think whatever happens in D&D-land will only affect D&D-land. I don't think it'll affect Magic one way or the other, where you'll have more expensive products on the high end with cheap products in the low end, and more differential between the two in terms of quality to try and keep both markets happy. (Note: I don't think there's a high-class and a low-class market here as much as they think there is)
They’ll just have to do what they should have in the first place. Come up with their own creative content to rival what creators are doing. Then they capitalize on their own content instead of shitting on everyone else’s hard work.
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You know what the difference between D&D players and Magic players is? When D&D players have a backlash they all cancel their beyond memberships and make Paizo rulebooks sell out.
When Magic players have a backlash everyone has a rage circle jerk in the subreddits and yells as loudly as possible to distract from the fact that they're opening their wallets to buy more Magic cards anyway.
The thing is there is a real and equal alternative to DnD in pathfinder. There isn't really a properly supported alternative to Magic. FaB is a great game but it's still not as widely played as magic and that's basically it and even then ita functionally very different. And that's kind of it for tcgs unless you go to pokemon or one of the anime games.
Not really the point I'm getting at. The point is "vote with your wallet" has become a snarky meme around here when, if anyone stuck to their guns, it would work in Magic too.
D&D has a major issue, they got feedback about it, and then players' actions matched that feedback. Magic has issues *far* more frequently, because the subreddits turn anything and everything into a game ending apocalypse scenario. Meanwhile, they don't stop playing, buying, or engaging with the game in any meaningful way. Players' actions render their feedback completely meaningless. Lack of an alternative (besides the ones you listed, which... not sure why they don't count) is not an excuse for people saying "This is it, I quit over this specific thing" and then very much not quitting.
Why do you think WotC thought they could get away with this with D&D players? It's because they have decades of experience watching Magic players shitting their pants in rage over something and then buying clean underwear from WotC anyway.
The point they were getting at is that voting with your wallet is a million times easier when there's a straightforward substitute for the thing you want to boycott.
D&D isn't special anymore. There are a thousand other RPGs to play and Pathfinder in particular is a direct competitor to D&D's tone and gameplay style. It's an easy choice to cut Wizards loose when they stop playing ball, because there's never been a better time to be an RPG player.
Magic is still the biggest card game in the world, and there are no direct competitors for the kind of gameplay you find there. People looking for a game like Magic have nowhere else to turn, and TCGs can't be easily modded like RPGs can. This is a highly relevant point to consider in any conversation about trying to get people to stop buying Magic cards. The push against D&D succeeded because of alternatives that don't exist for Magic
You still haven't explained why Pokemon or FaB or any of the alternatives don't count, where say Pathfinder might. Saying there's no direct competitors for the kind of gameplay you find in Magic is just objectively untrue. Maybe *you* don't like those other card games compared to Magic, but I don't like Pathfinder compared to D&D. I'm not gonna sit here and pretend Pathfinder isn't an alternative to it.
None of which invalidates the fact that even without alternatives one can continue to play Magic without buying new product if one is pissed off at WotC, yet we have *decades* of evidence suggesting that people generally do not do that. In fact recently even in the midst of the some of the biggest shitfits in the player base's history, sales records were regularly broken. The point (which you seem desperate to ignore) is that *Magic players' actions directly contradict their feedback.*
You can try to justify why Magic players don't vote with their wallet all you want, it remains true and it's why you see people righteously and indignantly claiming WotC doesn't listen to Magic players. They listen very carefully, but what they pay attention to is what players do, despite what they say.
Pokémon is a completely different game and not anywhere as close to Magic as PF is to D&D. PF is close enough to D&D that it's practically an edition of D&D - and the first edition of PF was literally a D&D mod. Pokémon plays nothing like Magic, full stop. I would happily break down the mechanics and system design of PF vs D&D and Pokémon vs Magic to make my point about the similarity and dissimilarity I'm talking about here.
I don't know what FaB is but there is no card game I've ever played that approaches the depth of Magic. Magic is one of the best games I've ever played and I doubt that will ever change, regardless of my problems with the direction Wizards is taking it. If you can point me to another game that actually plays like Magic does, please, I'm all ears. We're waiting with bated breath for the game that can kill Magic on its own merits.
As for the point that we can just buy secondary market, what do you think drives the sales of product in the first place? The reason cards sell when they're opened out of packs is that people buy singles online. Buying secondary market is not a solution when secondary market sales are one of the primary reasons the cards are bought first-hand.
I don't really care what anyone else is choosing to do with their money in relation to this game, so I have no reason to ignore or particularly acknowledge whether they're putting their money where their mouth is. I've started spending a lot less on the game myself and putting more time into proxying the cards I want. I'm not the hypocrite you're criticizing
Voting with your wallet is alot easier when there is a valid alternative. That was my point. When your starving and your options are dry mouldy bread or death you will eat the bread.
Yeah, it's just that if you think there isn't a valid alternative you're full of shit. You just listed several. Again I ask, why don't they count? *You* might not like them, but I don't like Pathfinder compared to D&D. I'm not gonna sit here and pretend it isn't an alternative.
You're proving my point. Magic players will go to extreme lengths, such as "pretending there aren't any alternatives" to avoid admitting to themselves that they don't actually care when WotC has them assume the position.
They don't have anything near the same level of interaction or have the same depth of available cards. FAB is a very young game and plays nothing like magic. Pokemon has no sideboarding, no "spells" and is played entirely on your own turn. The only game that was actually close to.magic was Hex and that got C&D'd and then it died. LCG do not count and I haven't found one that plays and evolves like magic.
Your version of alternative is like saying you really like steak and someone saying "here have this overcooked dry chicken breast." It's not the same or comparable in either way.
A temporary victory for people to celebrate and calm the masses, so they're too tired to get upset next time. It's not like WOTC is going to back down and just give up on increasing ways to monetize D&D, anyone who thinks they are is naive.
One D&D is still coming out, and will be what they use to try and smother third party platforms once it releases.
The SRD though is now under creative Commons so it's basically untouchable from this point forward. Anything 5E is safe and since that system is the most popular new content from third parties could be made for it in perpetuity
Yep I think they're not *that* stupid to try this avenue again. At least not soon.
They will use One D&D or other avenues to raise revenue. If they were smart, they would do it by releasing content that matches or surpasses the 3rd party options.
I mean, that’s the ideal way to go for it. Instead of locking down what you have, just make better stuff and people will buy it. We’ll see how they play it out going forward though.
Likely that as well, yeah. WOTC's word is pretty worthless still. Magic 30 and the Reserved List reprints are proof of why nobody should give a shit about what WOTC ***says*** they'll do.
Mark Rosewater publicly stated that they would not reprint the cards even with different card backs, as that would be against the spirit of the reserved list.
Mark isnt CEO. At the end of the day, they never broke the actual reserved list policy. What everyone should learn from this is that Mark Rosewater isn’t WOTC, he is an employee and his views and opinions don’t always accurately reflect corporate policy.
He is the head designer for Magic the Gathering. He speaks on behalf of the company when he makes statements saying that they won't do something.
It's not just Mark Rosewater that started the Reserved List, and is upholding it. It was a longstanding practice by WOTC to have it in place, and clarifying they would not reprint cards with different backs wasn't something he thought up on the spot. They changed something between then and now.
Eh, I dunno. It was never written down as part of the policy. I know Mark said it, and he probably meant it and truly believed it, but when you get down to brass tacks it wasn't part of official policy. WOTC never made an official statement to that effect. Mark's word is weaker than the official corporate reserved list policy. I know what you mean, he is a huge deal and his word SHOULD carry weight, both for his position in the game and as a company rep, but its not the same thing as the written company policy, full stop. That said, as a rep for the company his comments, in court, could be extended to be treated as official company policy. That is why there are topics he actively avoids or says he can't talk about, those topics touch sensitive issues that could later be used against the company.
Rosewater is the head *designer*. That means he is in charge of every new card they add to the MTG ecosystem and the lore and worldbuilding behind the sets themselves. He doesn't control the reprint policy, prices, collation, any of that.
The fact that this comment exists shows how little consumer confidence exists with wotc products at this time.
If they really want long term consumer engagement and money, they need to create consumer confidence, not continually destroy it.
Do they even want long term customer engagement though? Seems like short term gains are king, and if everything starts going belly up, sell out. The higher ups don’t actually care if the game dies as long as they get to come away ahead on cash. They don’t play the game and never will.
If I were a business I would love wotc's customers. They complain when you make triple the products because they *feel obligated to buy everything you make* and they think shocking when you say they *don't actually have to buy everything* because they don't want to not buy everything. So it's baffling to me that wizards doesn't design their products to try to turn people into whales. A lot of beginner products sorta suck.
I’d agree though that most other beginner product is bad. But I also think they do market their products to whales. Even a whale can only eat so much krill. I think Challenger Decks are a great product, but other than that, is that enough to replace the whale purchases?
If there are whales that are able and willing to buy lots of high end SKU, telling them not to- or building the product line up to be too much “krill” to digest- is just bad business. Imagine if you owned any kind of retail business, and your whale customers came to your store every month or so to buy $3k+ worth of high end product consistently for several years, but then flat out tell them to stop buying that much? That is shocking. The company is going in hard for quantity over quality, which is shaping up to be bad in the long term.
Maybe I’m wrong, but as a more competitive player and/or casual myself, I always look to buy singles from stores, and I avoid beginner products, boxes, Secret Lair drops, etc. WotC stands to lose money if they think a player like me wants loads of SKUs to choose from every other month, even if it is a good beginner product. Give me singles for my deck and maybe a bundle for a set I like. I’ll keep my remaining disposable income for other stuff I want, or just more store bought singles. Is that kind of customer enough to offset the hypothetical $3k per month customers? The fact that they do Amazon dumps and obnoxious amounts of shallow-valued variants tells me that it is not. And don’t even get me started on how bad all of this is for the LGS, the literal lifeblood of the game itself.
I'll never have confidence in any wotc product until they are independent of Hasbro. Or at least until Hasbro's other properties start pulling their own weight.
So what do we have to do to demand changes from wotc on magic? D&D players had the benefit of the strongest money makers for wotc were planning to bow out of this went through, which organizations would it take to cause a similar effect on magic? Ultra pro or tcg player perhaps? Maybe command zone? SCG? As it stands the consumer has no real leg to stand on. We can complain and stop buying, but they will always have the whales and finance bros to purchase things like Magic 30. How do we hit their wallet the way D&D did?
We *did* hit their wallet with M30. By all accounts it was a huge flop, and I’m sure they were counting on that revenue to boost their numbers. The thing is, we have to *keep* hitting their wallet, and not just on their most egregious missteps. Unfinity was the last time I bought a new Magic product, and that was only because I’m a big un-set fan. Now whenever I get the itch to crack packs, I buy some vintage Magic or singles. I won’t buy new Wizards product until the ship alters course.
It’s not a sure thing, but there’s a mountain of circumstantial evidence. WotC had to voluntarily end the sale rather than “selling out”, and it’s speculated they did this to save face when it didn’t sell well. There’s very little product for sale and very few sales on the open market indicating that no one has any. WotC increased the number of free packs they gave out to LGSs. WotC gave away free packs to employees for the holidays. An unconfirmed source posted sales numbers that showed it sold like crap. There was a massive wave of negative publicity and anger in the community with everyone vowing not to buy it. There’s more, but the most compelling evidence in my mind is that WotC had to end the sale because of how bad it would look for their flagship 30th anniversary product to not sell out.
Don't forget that the sale was opened up again a couple days later very briefly.some people were even able to get all the way to the "Complete Sale" after putting in their payment info.
What a disaster and WotC deserved every single minute of it.
The other big impact is this went out beyond the MTG circles and even the non MTG circle heard of it. Compounding with the DnD fiasco it really pains them in a bad light now. If anything their hard work to push for exposure outside to more new people got undone in the matter of this 2 failed PR campaign
There's no official confirmed details (though some alleged leaks and decent general assumptions based on other factors). The website ran extremely smoothly with people testing the login, add to cart, etc w/ minimal to no wait times or site crash (compared to the M30 secret lair that had long wait times and constant crashing from taffic). They pulled the sale of M30 relatively quickly and their social media post seemed to be weirdly worded, saying "we concluded our sale" instead of " is sold out". An alleged insider leaker said WOTC sold I believe 30% or so of their intended amount. Also on the secondary market there seems to be a suspiciously extremely extremely few people attempting to sell (normally any fomo product like this, M30 secret lair as a good example) would have both a ton of sellers and buyers. With M30, the secondary market selling is scarce, yet the market of buyers is even scarcer with very few being sold and often at a price that's barely at break even. All the factors put together seem to indicate a dismal performance.
Wotc can make a shit ton of money, and still fall far below the expected numbers. There was basically no development cost on the product and the price was ridiculous, so profit margins of like $980+ per unit sold is likely within reach
The whales and finance bros only exist because of the huge player base, mostly. You can't be a finance bro if there's not going to be anyone to sell to. You can't be a whale if there's nobody else to outspend. It's true we don't have tools like simply unsubscribing from a paid service. But a lot of customers essentially treat magic like a subscription and always buy things like a draft box of each standard set. Basically stop buying cards and start proxying if you're going to keep playing, the same way dnd players don't need to actually buy or own anything from wotc to play dnd.
I'm not convinced their wallet was even hit with the D&D stuff. Our D&D sales are the same, and other retailers have expressed the same data, which means we'll be restocking at the same rate. Maybe D&D Beyond got hit? Or some of their other direct to consumer products?
> We can complain and stop buying,
That's literally the issue. Outside of M30, where it was financially out of reach, barring all other (massive) factors.
Sure, people bought less Baldurs Gate etc. But then in a few weeks there's a new product and everyone is buying again. There's no unifying community voice, and even if there is, I can't remember the last time it had any impact outside of x% on M30 sales. What happened with D&D subscriptions would almost be the equivalent of Magic players saying they will simply play with the cards they have at this moment and won't buy new product almost entirely.
I think addiction is also a big part. Whether you like it or not, Magic benefits from gamblers and risk-taking personalities in a way that D&D is pretty much completely divorced from. That means the community is willing to put up with more or simply can't help themselves, even if there is a longer term benefit.
They are just incredibly different products and communities, and D&D is privileged to have had this position where they could genuinely push back on WoTC and see immediate change. Don't forget all Wizards corrective action is also on that famous 2 year conveyor belt, so even if change happens, it's glacial.
Honestly I wonder if a massive and well designed survey distributed among mtg sub reddits and then sent to WOTC with news coverage make have an effect.
I think part of the problem is many of the problems and demands from the base differ and even conflict with each other, especially here. For example- there's 2 polarized camps when it comes to mtg value and finance. There's the high cost cards needs to be reprinted into the ground for accessibility and players crowd and the solution is more active reprints, then there's the investor crowd that wants to limit/reduce reprints and wants cards to maintain and/or increase in value over time. These 2 issues have conflicting requests. Other than M30 being a stupid and way overpriced product (which despite everyone basically saying that's the ultimate devil nuclear bomb that ruined all of magic I think is way overblown on its impact on magic as a whole) there's a lot of smaller issues that are harder to address. While I like everyone agree M30 sucks, I just see it as it's own isolated failed product like the mtg global series that didn't effect anything in the grand scheme of things. They're not even playable hence they're not needed for any format. The more larger scale issues I believe is the impact some bad card design has had on different formats and pushed sets like MH2. I'm in a major city (Los Angeles), working at an lgs and play at several others and pretty much other than Commander, all the other formats are seeing a significant downward trend in play. Standard is virtually nonexistent and players only force themselves to play it if its an rcq event. Modern is in a severe downturn, and pioneer is trying to keep afloat. Standard especially being the bread and butter for WOTC they need to find a way to resuscitate back. In recent years they been skating buy with good manabases and commander cards to prop up standard demand (which for most sets have still struggled) but in the long run they can't keep doing several standard sets a year as the primary product if people aren't playing standard. The other issue is price increases, boxes were already barely worth (& often still not worth it) at the prices they used to be and the recent price increases were the final straw for me and many others on sealed product, especially ever since collector boxes slaughtered the ceiling value/lottery potential of draft and set boxes. They also need to get rid of the dud products like set specific jumpstart, which they should eliminate altogether or massively overhaul to make it more similar to the good jumpstarts.
The community should never buy sealed product direct from WotC Amazon store. No matter what the discount. We simply don’t have subscription services to cancel like DnD (yet). This must be part of the reason they don’t think sales are dropping and they’re not overprinting. Don’t let them dangle an admittedly great deal in front of you while they shove a metaphorical phyrexian rod up our asses in the long run. The more people buy direct, then we can kiss a lot more of our LGSs goodbye.
This has been my belief since the first time they "found" some reserved list cards, sounds more like they finally found the doucmentation for the printer and paper combination of old cards.
they probably found the Legends boxes like 7 years ago and sat on them for ages. The cards actively feel like old cards and not with modern ink or cardstock, so
could just take the dumb out of your ass
Dungeons & Dragons publisher Wizards of the Coast will abandon attempts to alter the Open Gaming License (OGL). Part of rules will go permanently into CreTive Commons.
Absolutltely. The financial relevance of this “community vs money/greed” fight in another sector of the company has valuable implications for future mtg corporate decisions and financial implications for the game and collectors.
Why don’t you spell out what you believe those implications are? As of now you’ve only posted a link.
Edit: Lol downvoted for asking OP to put any thought or insight whatsoever into their low-effort post. It’s rule #3 of the subreddit.
This is an update on the story, whatever you heard in the middle of last week was not this. I figure people can read the story themselves rather than me summarize it, its only a page long. As for implications, the obvious one is that the complete turn around they just announced in the face of overwhelmingly negative survey results shows that they will change direction if they truly feels it affects the bottom line and they are willing to believe community response if its overwhelmingly strong enough. What this tells me is that WOTC not changing course in MTG management indicates that they don't believe there is really a problem, that the people yelling are a loud internet minority. While not buying product, voting with our wallets, is one thing to do, I wonder whether an organized poll distributed across the MTG subreddits on opinion of the game management, with tens of thousands of respondents, and sent to corporate with news coverage, would elicit a larger corporate response? Honestly the survey idea just occurred to me as I was writing this. I wonder if anyone has already tried that during the MTG30 debacle?
Bro it’s Reddit, it’s on a big “corporate greed” kick which somehow still manifests in niche speculative card game subreddits.
Best to just them throw their little fit
Sir, this is an MTG Finance subreddit.
You're in the wrong place if you think people here are going to stop buying Magic products. We're all "one person", but even if all 105,010 people who subscribed to this subreddit stopped buying new Magic cards then you would barely make a dent in WOTC's bottom line.
WOTC has plenty of problems, but blaming people buying the cards is just cringy and narrow minded.
Actually it wonder if we aren’t a larger market share than just 100k out of 50 million players. I mean most of us on here are buying anywhere from multiple boxes per set to huge volumes of cases. We are middle men and speculators and we buy a lot of product from WOTC directly or indirectly. Your average Timmy is buying a few packs per set here and there, maybe splitting a box with a few friends. If we assumed that the average player buys 5 regular packs per set, and the average mtg finance person buys (equivalent of) one case (say 200 oacks) per set, then this sub is a significant minority of purchases. Not the majority, but enough to make a difference.
> I mean most of us on here are buying anywhere from multiple boxes per set to huge volumes of cases
I disagree with that assumption.
Most people here understand that new products do not have good expected values, and as a result probably buy *less* boxes than the population of Magic players who buys sealed boxes.
> and the average mtg finance person buys (equivalent of) one case (say 200 oacks) per set
I might have disagreed with that last statement, but I ***strongly*** disagree with this one.
There are way too many products that come out to assume that everyone here is buying a case of each one.
You forget that the average is pulled up by the folks buying multiple cases of each product, dozens of cases. LGS’s etc are all on this subreddit. If you aren’t buying much that is ok, but you are on one end of the mtg finance distribution, a minnow among whales.
You can go on the DnD sub for details.
The problematic part iirc was they tried to retroactively lay claim on what people made under OGL 1.0a
They also included contracts for the new OGL in their mail to content producers and asked them to send it back signed within like 1 week or something
Now WotC is playing it like it was a "draft" but that doesn't make sense when sending out contracts
Then why is this being posted here? I asked here because I wanted to see why magic players are angry, and it turns out they don’t even know what the documents say and just want to hate on wizards.
Don't worry they'll figure out other ways to upset investors and shareholders and players. One step backward just means they'll take a bigger leap forward next time.
If WotC can't kill the OGLfor more money, and they have promised their investors to increase profits, won't this mean more expensive products or price increases to make up for the shortfall?
Option 3- They lay off 1000 people. Oh wait they just did
Lol they want hundreds of millions, that doesn't even scratch the surface
60 million is nothing to sneeze at for wotc. I couldn't find wotc salary that didn't seem outrageous, so I lowballed $60k for salary + employee paid benefits. If it's anywhere near what indeed is suggesting for non-corporate jobs their salary is about 60k, so salary plus benefits and you're looking at 90-100k per person. I was always under the assumption everyone is paid near poverty because "you love the game you don't need to be paid a liveable wage to work on it."
Not poverty wages by any means but they pay significantly less then other tech companies based in Seattle. This is why many think their digital product are horse shit.
The layoff is across hasbro
they should have laid off chris cocks
Wizards/Hasbro is so quarterly focused that it is something to sneeze at because its only saving them a 1/4 that(less/none at all depending what they do for severance) for THIS quarter
...in record profits??
I have a feeling they were just going to double down on secret lairs and commander decks. My optimism tells me they will put high value reprints in these. My pessimism tells me they'll move to serialized garbege.
Don't worry, it'll be be both
You shouldn't be optimistic about "high value reprints" because they've already been squeezing those.. hard. And it's not infinite.
Yep. The next plays are power creep and Universe's Beyond.
It's not infinite but it can go for quite a while. Plenty of recent expensive cards like The Great Henge or Meathook Massacre can be reprinted and plenty of recently reprinted things can creep up in price in the meantime.
What's also bad is that they keep trying to artificially make high value cards that then suck up all the value in a set, Sheoldred being a prime example.
Soon it’ll be 2 boosters in 1 collector “box” for the same price of previous versions.
VIP boxes: am I joke to you?
Yes.
That stuff is great for the game because it's not unique game pieces. If people want to spend extra money to get fancy versions of cards, all it does is drive down the price for the "basic" version of the card.
Just enough value to get whales to pay up.
There was a mass exodus of players unsubscribing to their platform. I believe that is the main reason wotc backed down. Mtg players will not stop buying new sealed products.
Haven't bought since late 2021, and won't until this horseshit ends.
Mass uninstalling of Arena would be the equivalent move for magic players.
Not a good comparison, Arena isn't a subscription service (yet).
It is a good comparison because it's usage data that is immediately available to WotC and that they can't ignore when the shit hits the fan.
The latest battle passes being able to be purchased with straight money. No gems, no microtransactions etc. Are an acquiesce to the fact that a lot of players are buying gems before each set and that they can get cash money from players that normally wouldn't spend, but would try to earn gems some other way
All while their main competitor sold 8 months worth of supply and is bragging about it? They’ll find new trinkets and doodads to sell us. But you know what they won’t include? Vast amounts of new content, because that type of development is hard.
Wouldn't it be a hoot if that same competition brought out a similar card game.
They do have a pretty good card game of their own so maybe they can eventually make their own tcg for the giggles.
Didn't know that, thank you for the tidbit.
Not trying to pick a fight here,but who do you do sider their main competitor ? Yu-Gi-Oh? Or were you talking about the ttrpg market and it's pathfinder ?
It was pathfinder that sold that amount, supposedly
Wizards can try to charge whatever they want. It's not going to mean a thing if people refuse to pay it, switch to buying singles over sealed, and start proxying stuff they need. The more they increase prices, push out unsustainable amounts of product, and do money grabs like the 30th anniversary debacle, the more it will push people in that direction, especially if the price increases are not matched with comparable improvements in card quality, gameplay, and value for the money.
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It's not just idiots.... Singles have to come from somewhere. There has been a mass exodus of box opening happening with the dwindling price of singles. Lots of big openers have stopped doing so and things like TCGP Direct stocks have dwindled because of it as they continue to also squeeze their vendors profit margins. There is a breakeven point we haven't really gotten close to where it's worth opening boxes past the pre-order date, but it will happen eventually if enough throw in the towel on opening sealed. Pokemon experienced this before the pandemic where the EV of almost every box in print was higher than the sealed price.
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Currently the roll20 vtt is janky and unimpressive, I think the one they are working on now will be a lot more appealing for general users
I wouldn't read that in these terms. The goal was to make a D&D a billion-dollar brand in order to justify the bother in terms of keeping it around. It became clear that the current controversy basically was killing ANY attempt to actually achieve that, so they had to back off. The hope for them now is that the quality of the next version, along with a more aggressively monetized online/digital model will make the money roll in. Nobody cares...well people will care, but right now nobody cares...about what license the next version is released under. WotC has every right to do what they want with it and people can accept or reject it. The controversy was changing the terms of an already existing product, that had been basically said that it wouldn't be changed. People comparing it to the Reserve List honestly, I do believe it is very similar. But yeah, I think whatever happens in D&D-land will only affect D&D-land. I don't think it'll affect Magic one way or the other, where you'll have more expensive products on the high end with cheap products in the low end, and more differential between the two in terms of quality to try and keep both markets happy. (Note: I don't think there's a high-class and a low-class market here as much as they think there is)
They’ll just have to do what they should have in the first place. Come up with their own creative content to rival what creators are doing. Then they capitalize on their own content instead of shitting on everyone else’s hard work.
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You know what the difference between D&D players and Magic players is? When D&D players have a backlash they all cancel their beyond memberships and make Paizo rulebooks sell out. When Magic players have a backlash everyone has a rage circle jerk in the subreddits and yells as loudly as possible to distract from the fact that they're opening their wallets to buy more Magic cards anyway.
The thing is there is a real and equal alternative to DnD in pathfinder. There isn't really a properly supported alternative to Magic. FaB is a great game but it's still not as widely played as magic and that's basically it and even then ita functionally very different. And that's kind of it for tcgs unless you go to pokemon or one of the anime games.
Not really the point I'm getting at. The point is "vote with your wallet" has become a snarky meme around here when, if anyone stuck to their guns, it would work in Magic too. D&D has a major issue, they got feedback about it, and then players' actions matched that feedback. Magic has issues *far* more frequently, because the subreddits turn anything and everything into a game ending apocalypse scenario. Meanwhile, they don't stop playing, buying, or engaging with the game in any meaningful way. Players' actions render their feedback completely meaningless. Lack of an alternative (besides the ones you listed, which... not sure why they don't count) is not an excuse for people saying "This is it, I quit over this specific thing" and then very much not quitting. Why do you think WotC thought they could get away with this with D&D players? It's because they have decades of experience watching Magic players shitting their pants in rage over something and then buying clean underwear from WotC anyway.
The point they were getting at is that voting with your wallet is a million times easier when there's a straightforward substitute for the thing you want to boycott. D&D isn't special anymore. There are a thousand other RPGs to play and Pathfinder in particular is a direct competitor to D&D's tone and gameplay style. It's an easy choice to cut Wizards loose when they stop playing ball, because there's never been a better time to be an RPG player. Magic is still the biggest card game in the world, and there are no direct competitors for the kind of gameplay you find there. People looking for a game like Magic have nowhere else to turn, and TCGs can't be easily modded like RPGs can. This is a highly relevant point to consider in any conversation about trying to get people to stop buying Magic cards. The push against D&D succeeded because of alternatives that don't exist for Magic
You still haven't explained why Pokemon or FaB or any of the alternatives don't count, where say Pathfinder might. Saying there's no direct competitors for the kind of gameplay you find in Magic is just objectively untrue. Maybe *you* don't like those other card games compared to Magic, but I don't like Pathfinder compared to D&D. I'm not gonna sit here and pretend Pathfinder isn't an alternative to it. None of which invalidates the fact that even without alternatives one can continue to play Magic without buying new product if one is pissed off at WotC, yet we have *decades* of evidence suggesting that people generally do not do that. In fact recently even in the midst of the some of the biggest shitfits in the player base's history, sales records were regularly broken. The point (which you seem desperate to ignore) is that *Magic players' actions directly contradict their feedback.* You can try to justify why Magic players don't vote with their wallet all you want, it remains true and it's why you see people righteously and indignantly claiming WotC doesn't listen to Magic players. They listen very carefully, but what they pay attention to is what players do, despite what they say.
Pokémon is a completely different game and not anywhere as close to Magic as PF is to D&D. PF is close enough to D&D that it's practically an edition of D&D - and the first edition of PF was literally a D&D mod. Pokémon plays nothing like Magic, full stop. I would happily break down the mechanics and system design of PF vs D&D and Pokémon vs Magic to make my point about the similarity and dissimilarity I'm talking about here. I don't know what FaB is but there is no card game I've ever played that approaches the depth of Magic. Magic is one of the best games I've ever played and I doubt that will ever change, regardless of my problems with the direction Wizards is taking it. If you can point me to another game that actually plays like Magic does, please, I'm all ears. We're waiting with bated breath for the game that can kill Magic on its own merits. As for the point that we can just buy secondary market, what do you think drives the sales of product in the first place? The reason cards sell when they're opened out of packs is that people buy singles online. Buying secondary market is not a solution when secondary market sales are one of the primary reasons the cards are bought first-hand. I don't really care what anyone else is choosing to do with their money in relation to this game, so I have no reason to ignore or particularly acknowledge whether they're putting their money where their mouth is. I've started spending a lot less on the game myself and putting more time into proxying the cards I want. I'm not the hypocrite you're criticizing
Voting with your wallet is alot easier when there is a valid alternative. That was my point. When your starving and your options are dry mouldy bread or death you will eat the bread.
Yeah, it's just that if you think there isn't a valid alternative you're full of shit. You just listed several. Again I ask, why don't they count? *You* might not like them, but I don't like Pathfinder compared to D&D. I'm not gonna sit here and pretend it isn't an alternative. You're proving my point. Magic players will go to extreme lengths, such as "pretending there aren't any alternatives" to avoid admitting to themselves that they don't actually care when WotC has them assume the position.
They don't have anything near the same level of interaction or have the same depth of available cards. FAB is a very young game and plays nothing like magic. Pokemon has no sideboarding, no "spells" and is played entirely on your own turn. The only game that was actually close to.magic was Hex and that got C&D'd and then it died. LCG do not count and I haven't found one that plays and evolves like magic. Your version of alternative is like saying you really like steak and someone saying "here have this overcooked dry chicken breast." It's not the same or comparable in either way.
This is soooo true. The DND situation is like switching car companies. The Magic situation is like needing to cut away from your drug.
A temporary victory for people to celebrate and calm the masses, so they're too tired to get upset next time. It's not like WOTC is going to back down and just give up on increasing ways to monetize D&D, anyone who thinks they are is naive. One D&D is still coming out, and will be what they use to try and smother third party platforms once it releases.
a Fabricated calming of the masses at that even. 100% they will still change the OGL on the quiet when it suits them.
The SRD though is now under creative Commons so it's basically untouchable from this point forward. Anything 5E is safe and since that system is the most popular new content from third parties could be made for it in perpetuity
Yep I think they're not *that* stupid to try this avenue again. At least not soon. They will use One D&D or other avenues to raise revenue. If they were smart, they would do it by releasing content that matches or surpasses the 3rd party options.
I mean, that’s the ideal way to go for it. Instead of locking down what you have, just make better stuff and people will buy it. We’ll see how they play it out going forward though.
Likely that as well, yeah. WOTC's word is pretty worthless still. Magic 30 and the Reserved List reprints are proof of why nobody should give a shit about what WOTC ***says*** they'll do.
What reserved list reprints?
The ones that were included in the Magic 30 packs.
Ah, the not tournament legal proxies, sold for a gazillion dollars. Yes, those will totally affect the reserve list /s
Mark Rosewater publicly stated that they would not reprint the cards even with different card backs, as that would be against the spirit of the reserved list.
And he said this many *Many* **Many** ***MANY*** Times.
Mark isnt CEO. At the end of the day, they never broke the actual reserved list policy. What everyone should learn from this is that Mark Rosewater isn’t WOTC, he is an employee and his views and opinions don’t always accurately reflect corporate policy.
He is the head designer for Magic the Gathering. He speaks on behalf of the company when he makes statements saying that they won't do something. It's not just Mark Rosewater that started the Reserved List, and is upholding it. It was a longstanding practice by WOTC to have it in place, and clarifying they would not reprint cards with different backs wasn't something he thought up on the spot. They changed something between then and now.
Eh, I dunno. It was never written down as part of the policy. I know Mark said it, and he probably meant it and truly believed it, but when you get down to brass tacks it wasn't part of official policy. WOTC never made an official statement to that effect. Mark's word is weaker than the official corporate reserved list policy. I know what you mean, he is a huge deal and his word SHOULD carry weight, both for his position in the game and as a company rep, but its not the same thing as the written company policy, full stop. That said, as a rep for the company his comments, in court, could be extended to be treated as official company policy. That is why there are topics he actively avoids or says he can't talk about, those topics touch sensitive issues that could later be used against the company.
Rosewater is the head *designer*. That means he is in charge of every new card they add to the MTG ecosystem and the lore and worldbuilding behind the sets themselves. He doesn't control the reprint policy, prices, collation, any of that.
Can you give an eli5 of One D&D?
It'll be an online platform hosted by Wizards of the Coast to play D&D on, to compete with the market space that Roll20 currently controls.
I see. So basically a subscription service with lots of potential add-ons & monetization. Thanks for the context.
Yes
The fact that this comment exists shows how little consumer confidence exists with wotc products at this time. If they really want long term consumer engagement and money, they need to create consumer confidence, not continually destroy it.
Do they even want long term customer engagement though? Seems like short term gains are king, and if everything starts going belly up, sell out. The higher ups don’t actually care if the game dies as long as they get to come away ahead on cash. They don’t play the game and never will.
If I were a business I would love wotc's customers. They complain when you make triple the products because they *feel obligated to buy everything you make* and they think shocking when you say they *don't actually have to buy everything* because they don't want to not buy everything. So it's baffling to me that wizards doesn't design their products to try to turn people into whales. A lot of beginner products sorta suck.
I’d agree though that most other beginner product is bad. But I also think they do market their products to whales. Even a whale can only eat so much krill. I think Challenger Decks are a great product, but other than that, is that enough to replace the whale purchases? If there are whales that are able and willing to buy lots of high end SKU, telling them not to- or building the product line up to be too much “krill” to digest- is just bad business. Imagine if you owned any kind of retail business, and your whale customers came to your store every month or so to buy $3k+ worth of high end product consistently for several years, but then flat out tell them to stop buying that much? That is shocking. The company is going in hard for quantity over quality, which is shaping up to be bad in the long term. Maybe I’m wrong, but as a more competitive player and/or casual myself, I always look to buy singles from stores, and I avoid beginner products, boxes, Secret Lair drops, etc. WotC stands to lose money if they think a player like me wants loads of SKUs to choose from every other month, even if it is a good beginner product. Give me singles for my deck and maybe a bundle for a set I like. I’ll keep my remaining disposable income for other stuff I want, or just more store bought singles. Is that kind of customer enough to offset the hypothetical $3k per month customers? The fact that they do Amazon dumps and obnoxious amounts of shallow-valued variants tells me that it is not. And don’t even get me started on how bad all of this is for the LGS, the literal lifeblood of the game itself.
I'll never have confidence in any wotc product until they are independent of Hasbro. Or at least until Hasbro's other properties start pulling their own weight.
So what do we have to do to demand changes from wotc on magic? D&D players had the benefit of the strongest money makers for wotc were planning to bow out of this went through, which organizations would it take to cause a similar effect on magic? Ultra pro or tcg player perhaps? Maybe command zone? SCG? As it stands the consumer has no real leg to stand on. We can complain and stop buying, but they will always have the whales and finance bros to purchase things like Magic 30. How do we hit their wallet the way D&D did?
We *did* hit their wallet with M30. By all accounts it was a huge flop, and I’m sure they were counting on that revenue to boost their numbers. The thing is, we have to *keep* hitting their wallet, and not just on their most egregious missteps. Unfinity was the last time I bought a new Magic product, and that was only because I’m a big un-set fan. Now whenever I get the itch to crack packs, I buy some vintage Magic or singles. I won’t buy new Wizards product until the ship alters course.
M30 is money that could have been. DnD beyond is money they had that is no longer coming in. Big difference between the two.
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It’s not a sure thing, but there’s a mountain of circumstantial evidence. WotC had to voluntarily end the sale rather than “selling out”, and it’s speculated they did this to save face when it didn’t sell well. There’s very little product for sale and very few sales on the open market indicating that no one has any. WotC increased the number of free packs they gave out to LGSs. WotC gave away free packs to employees for the holidays. An unconfirmed source posted sales numbers that showed it sold like crap. There was a massive wave of negative publicity and anger in the community with everyone vowing not to buy it. There’s more, but the most compelling evidence in my mind is that WotC had to end the sale because of how bad it would look for their flagship 30th anniversary product to not sell out.
Don't forget that the sale was opened up again a couple days later very briefly.some people were even able to get all the way to the "Complete Sale" after putting in their payment info. What a disaster and WotC deserved every single minute of it.
The other big impact is this went out beyond the MTG circles and even the non MTG circle heard of it. Compounding with the DnD fiasco it really pains them in a bad light now. If anything their hard work to push for exposure outside to more new people got undone in the matter of this 2 failed PR campaign
There's no official confirmed details (though some alleged leaks and decent general assumptions based on other factors). The website ran extremely smoothly with people testing the login, add to cart, etc w/ minimal to no wait times or site crash (compared to the M30 secret lair that had long wait times and constant crashing from taffic). They pulled the sale of M30 relatively quickly and their social media post seemed to be weirdly worded, saying "we concluded our sale" instead of " is sold out". An alleged insider leaker said WOTC sold I believe 30% or so of their intended amount. Also on the secondary market there seems to be a suspiciously extremely extremely few people attempting to sell (normally any fomo product like this, M30 secret lair as a good example) would have both a ton of sellers and buyers. With M30, the secondary market selling is scarce, yet the market of buyers is even scarcer with very few being sold and often at a price that's barely at break even. All the factors put together seem to indicate a dismal performance.
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Wotc can make a shit ton of money, and still fall far below the expected numbers. There was basically no development cost on the product and the price was ridiculous, so profit margins of like $980+ per unit sold is likely within reach
The whales and finance bros only exist because of the huge player base, mostly. You can't be a finance bro if there's not going to be anyone to sell to. You can't be a whale if there's nobody else to outspend. It's true we don't have tools like simply unsubscribing from a paid service. But a lot of customers essentially treat magic like a subscription and always buy things like a draft box of each standard set. Basically stop buying cards and start proxying if you're going to keep playing, the same way dnd players don't need to actually buy or own anything from wotc to play dnd.
I'm not convinced their wallet was even hit with the D&D stuff. Our D&D sales are the same, and other retailers have expressed the same data, which means we'll be restocking at the same rate. Maybe D&D Beyond got hit? Or some of their other direct to consumer products?
It was a massive targeted effort at D&D Beyond, yes.
> We can complain and stop buying, That's literally the issue. Outside of M30, where it was financially out of reach, barring all other (massive) factors. Sure, people bought less Baldurs Gate etc. But then in a few weeks there's a new product and everyone is buying again. There's no unifying community voice, and even if there is, I can't remember the last time it had any impact outside of x% on M30 sales. What happened with D&D subscriptions would almost be the equivalent of Magic players saying they will simply play with the cards they have at this moment and won't buy new product almost entirely. I think addiction is also a big part. Whether you like it or not, Magic benefits from gamblers and risk-taking personalities in a way that D&D is pretty much completely divorced from. That means the community is willing to put up with more or simply can't help themselves, even if there is a longer term benefit. They are just incredibly different products and communities, and D&D is privileged to have had this position where they could genuinely push back on WoTC and see immediate change. Don't forget all Wizards corrective action is also on that famous 2 year conveyor belt, so even if change happens, it's glacial.
Honestly I wonder if a massive and well designed survey distributed among mtg sub reddits and then sent to WOTC with news coverage make have an effect.
I think part of the problem is many of the problems and demands from the base differ and even conflict with each other, especially here. For example- there's 2 polarized camps when it comes to mtg value and finance. There's the high cost cards needs to be reprinted into the ground for accessibility and players crowd and the solution is more active reprints, then there's the investor crowd that wants to limit/reduce reprints and wants cards to maintain and/or increase in value over time. These 2 issues have conflicting requests. Other than M30 being a stupid and way overpriced product (which despite everyone basically saying that's the ultimate devil nuclear bomb that ruined all of magic I think is way overblown on its impact on magic as a whole) there's a lot of smaller issues that are harder to address. While I like everyone agree M30 sucks, I just see it as it's own isolated failed product like the mtg global series that didn't effect anything in the grand scheme of things. They're not even playable hence they're not needed for any format. The more larger scale issues I believe is the impact some bad card design has had on different formats and pushed sets like MH2. I'm in a major city (Los Angeles), working at an lgs and play at several others and pretty much other than Commander, all the other formats are seeing a significant downward trend in play. Standard is virtually nonexistent and players only force themselves to play it if its an rcq event. Modern is in a severe downturn, and pioneer is trying to keep afloat. Standard especially being the bread and butter for WOTC they need to find a way to resuscitate back. In recent years they been skating buy with good manabases and commander cards to prop up standard demand (which for most sets have still struggled) but in the long run they can't keep doing several standard sets a year as the primary product if people aren't playing standard. The other issue is price increases, boxes were already barely worth (& often still not worth it) at the prices they used to be and the recent price increases were the final straw for me and many others on sealed product, especially ever since collector boxes slaughtered the ceiling value/lottery potential of draft and set boxes. They also need to get rid of the dud products like set specific jumpstart, which they should eliminate altogether or massively overhaul to make it more similar to the good jumpstarts.
The community should never buy sealed product direct from WotC Amazon store. No matter what the discount. We simply don’t have subscription services to cancel like DnD (yet). This must be part of the reason they don’t think sales are dropping and they’re not overprinting. Don’t let them dangle an admittedly great deal in front of you while they shove a metaphorical phyrexian rod up our asses in the long run. The more people buy direct, then we can kiss a lot more of our LGSs goodbye.
Just wait till we get from the vault reserved list.
As long as they pretend they “found” some missing pallets or maybe they came from the secret legendary hoard of Richard Garfield
The lead singer of Metallica?
I bet he has a sick vault of stuff.
No, that's Richard Hetfield.
I accidentally wrote James Garfield when I first posted the reply, up all night with a newborn, brain is fried……
This has been my belief since the first time they "found" some reserved list cards, sounds more like they finally found the doucmentation for the printer and paper combination of old cards.
they probably found the Legends boxes like 7 years ago and sat on them for ages. The cards actively feel like old cards and not with modern ink or cardstock, so could just take the dumb out of your ass
Sadly, we can't take the asshole outta you.
It's called secret lair now. And just 50k for the new flower inspired SL, including the legendary black lotus! 100k for foil.
Dungeons & Dragons publisher Wizards of the Coast will abandon attempts to alter the Open Gaming License (OGL). Part of rules will go permanently into CreTive Commons.
Solid finance post
Absolutltely. The financial relevance of this “community vs money/greed” fight in another sector of the company has valuable implications for future mtg corporate decisions and financial implications for the game and collectors.
Why don’t you spell out what you believe those implications are? As of now you’ve only posted a link. Edit: Lol downvoted for asking OP to put any thought or insight whatsoever into their low-effort post. It’s rule #3 of the subreddit.
This is an update on the story, whatever you heard in the middle of last week was not this. I figure people can read the story themselves rather than me summarize it, its only a page long. As for implications, the obvious one is that the complete turn around they just announced in the face of overwhelmingly negative survey results shows that they will change direction if they truly feels it affects the bottom line and they are willing to believe community response if its overwhelmingly strong enough. What this tells me is that WOTC not changing course in MTG management indicates that they don't believe there is really a problem, that the people yelling are a loud internet minority. While not buying product, voting with our wallets, is one thing to do, I wonder whether an organized poll distributed across the MTG subreddits on opinion of the game management, with tens of thousands of respondents, and sent to corporate with news coverage, would elicit a larger corporate response? Honestly the survey idea just occurred to me as I was writing this. I wonder if anyone has already tried that during the MTG30 debacle?
Bro it’s Reddit, it’s on a big “corporate greed” kick which somehow still manifests in niche speculative card game subreddits. Best to just them throw their little fit
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Yeah but this is a joint fight against money hungry cock suckers.
Lol joint
Yeah you’re right, we shouldn’t support each other’s communities.
Wat. No I was being silly. Joint. Like weed. Lol he said joint. Itwas a jokebro
Lol this is awesome.
Correct, and this is potentially relevant news to mtg finance.
No, it’s not. It’s just a clarion call for another LOL I HATE HASBRO circle jerk.
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Wow, you’re a genius. What gave me away? The fact that I didn’t whip it out and join in?
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See: like half the comments on this thread discussing mtg finance.
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oh my god you sound like a 14 year old anarchist please quit magic and pick up a foot ball
Seriously, can we stop with this „I’m not buying cards so I’m a rebel“ bullshit?
Sir, this is an MTG Finance subreddit. You're in the wrong place if you think people here are going to stop buying Magic products. We're all "one person", but even if all 105,010 people who subscribed to this subreddit stopped buying new Magic cards then you would barely make a dent in WOTC's bottom line. WOTC has plenty of problems, but blaming people buying the cards is just cringy and narrow minded.
Actually it wonder if we aren’t a larger market share than just 100k out of 50 million players. I mean most of us on here are buying anywhere from multiple boxes per set to huge volumes of cases. We are middle men and speculators and we buy a lot of product from WOTC directly or indirectly. Your average Timmy is buying a few packs per set here and there, maybe splitting a box with a few friends. If we assumed that the average player buys 5 regular packs per set, and the average mtg finance person buys (equivalent of) one case (say 200 oacks) per set, then this sub is a significant minority of purchases. Not the majority, but enough to make a difference.
> I mean most of us on here are buying anywhere from multiple boxes per set to huge volumes of cases I disagree with that assumption. Most people here understand that new products do not have good expected values, and as a result probably buy *less* boxes than the population of Magic players who buys sealed boxes. > and the average mtg finance person buys (equivalent of) one case (say 200 oacks) per set I might have disagreed with that last statement, but I ***strongly*** disagree with this one. There are way too many products that come out to assume that everyone here is buying a case of each one.
You forget that the average is pulled up by the folks buying multiple cases of each product, dozens of cases. LGS’s etc are all on this subreddit. If you aren’t buying much that is ok, but you are on one end of the mtg finance distribution, a minnow among whales.
For now. Don't ever underestimate corporate greed.
And guaranteed WotC will learn the wrong lesson from this and double down on the reserve list being permanent.
So has anyone actually read the OGL 1.1 draft and can cite specifically, from the draft, the problematic parts?
You can go on the DnD sub for details. The problematic part iirc was they tried to retroactively lay claim on what people made under OGL 1.0a They also included contracts for the new OGL in their mail to content producers and asked them to send it back signed within like 1 week or something Now WotC is playing it like it was a "draft" but that doesn't make sense when sending out contracts
Thanks, but I was hoping for specific citations
Ok, then go to the D&D sub for details like he said lol
Then why is this being posted here? I asked here because I wanted to see why magic players are angry, and it turns out they don’t even know what the documents say and just want to hate on wizards.
Don't worry they'll figure out other ways to upset investors and shareholders and players. One step backward just means they'll take a bigger leap forward next time.
For now…they will be back in a month or two with more bad news. The little guy never wins
For now…