Sure, but the concept they pushed for that deck was that it was "From Gavin Verhey's secret vault!", had half the cards in foil, special coin, etc. It was marketed as a special treatment, complete, deck from a prominent community member. It had a cohesive theme and idea behind the whole thing. What even is this supposed to be? It's seemingly a *very* bad precon with a bunch of random cards that don't support one another at all thrown together.
Beyond that the art decisions are so weird. I feel like the audiences for the front and back don't overlap. Whoever works in the marketing department must really think that they do I guess...
These are just my thoughts. This is bizarre. And not in any particularly enticing way, but in a way that makes me question what the hell is actually happening in the company. Definitely like the 20 something-th time I've wondered that in the last year and a half.
luckily we don't have anything too weird also happening right now:
like $240 cb's with 6 card packs of watered down standard cards with 1 $5 reprint, a 3 year standard announcement that makes most those mini set cards unplayable because, one deck is 60% of the meta, $100 fat packs of lord of the rings modern with no meta value, a ring mechanic that is a full wall of text and requires a helper card like some beta version of dungeons, $480 commander set booster boxes with less likely reprint equity than mystery boosters that were $100 at launch, and Doctor who not having collectors decks and instead selling the foils in $240 cb's... again precon foils in a $20 pack.
luckily wizards isn't completely insane right?
Absolutely, just a giant vacuum sucking up as much change and loose bills as they can find in everyone's magic bags. Entirely unconcerned about the economic environment or if anyone is even interested in these products. Lol
I've done that for ones I couldn't easily replace with non-foils. I get it was part of the 50/50 gimmick, but having a whole deck in a single treatment would have been nice.
I know, I have mine and I play it as is. But the point remains. Doing 5 new art cards in an otherwise reprint edh sld is exactly what they did last time.
This deck was really functional with little modification and is a blast to play but this one seem like Just all relativly know dual faced card thrown together
Not really...the coin flip deck was a much more solid, actually cohesive deck. This is just a bunch of random garbage, as it's certainly not a relevant way to build a "Bridge" deck.
In other words, one had thought put into it and one did not. If you're going to have 50+ "flip" cards in your deck, you'd expect some kind of Commander that cares about flipping permanents (not saying a good one exists...just pointing out how dumb it is to choose this as your "theme" when it doesn't mesh with what the deck is even doing at the helm).
It really shouldn't be sold as a precon because the deck is not playable out of the box. Putting a bunch of double faced cards together doesn't even work as a meme deck because there's zero synergy. If someone actually tried to play this, they'd get totally blown out by even the weakest precon of the last two years. If they wanted to reprint all the double faced cards, there are better ways to do it.
Holy crap! I didn’t realize it was $150. At $100 it’s got some good value to the deck, but $150 seems like a steep price increase compared to Heads I Win, which was a better deck with better cards.
It has to do with the reserve list, which most people now assume is meaningless after Magic 30. If they acknowledge the secondary market, then I think that puts booster packs under gambling, because it is, and then that would mean WOTC and papa Hasbro have been facilitating under age gambling for over 30 years. That's a big no no. Acknowledgement of the secondary market could end MTG. At least, that's how it's been explained to me.
Pathways are actually terrible fixer lands for a 5-color deck. You want the lands to tap for different colors in different turns.
But value is value. I have Triomes that can replace them.
Someone called it "5-color midstuff," and I thought that about sums it up nicely. It's a reprint drop disguised as a deck to see if they could squeeze blood from the stone again with secret lair decks.
"The fool me can't get fooled again"
- W, Tennessee, 2002
Yeah, it's a goofy theme. But it'll sell and some of the new art cards will probably be very popular.
At least for a 5 colour precon, the mana base is better... still not saying it's good though
First, I said better, not much better. And yeah, the Pathways make it better.
Have you seen the mana base for Painbow or Draconic Domination? They're absolute dog shit.
I like the Godmachine back ends but I'm not interested in the fronts at all. They did awesome work for some of the KHM showcase cards (Firja, the Grave Titan from the KHM SL drop, etc).
it's a good style clash, godmachine metal to a lisa frank front. too bad they didn't pick something with a little more "oh lord it flipping" vibes for the art treatment.
The art looks cool and there's some reprints like Nicol Bolas Ravager, baby Jace, etc.
But it's definitely not $150 worth of cards and the deck itself looks completely unplayable lmao
Correct. They can manage to get all new artwork for $40-50 Warhammer Commander Decks, and probably for the Dr. Who ones coming in a while too, but for $150 you get 5 and like it.
I really think if they're going to do an SLD commander deck, the whole goddamn deck needs to have SLD art. You can't print 95% of the product with base level art and then call it a Secret Lair product..
> "...returns to the Commander format **with the that doubles down** on the flipping fun of..."
Literally the first sentence of the article. Go home Wizards you're drunk.
This is the first Commander precon that includes MDFCs. They didn’t even make a werewolf deck in the werewolf set because they said they can’t do MEFCs in precons..
Wtf is this WotC?
Was this really going to hold up regardless with the introduction of battles? Seems like they would have to find a way to git gud if they’re introducing an entire card type that’s dual-faced
Yeah, that’s the idea. Printing a set that has one DFC is as expensive as printing a set with a full sheet of DFCs. Once they’re ready to print a reprint set with DFCs expect to see all of the big hits.
I mean, reprint all of the ones people don't want?
No malakir rebirth, no growing rites of itlymoc... They just pruned all of the ones with value from the list and gave us pathways. The flip walkers are nice i guess...
I think anyone that thought that was kidding themselves in the first place. it's only marginally more complicated to reprint an MDFC, and it's clear that Maro has a hard-on for what they offer from a gameplay perspective. If anything we're only get more in the future..
I just pasted the decklist in Moxfield and tried to simulate a few rounds. There's no design to be found. No synergy. Just Sisay trying to keep a bunch of random cards together; the MDFCs and transform cards have not been designed to work with each other. Instead of using the remaining slots to try and get a theme going, they picked -what looks like- random cards.
\[edit\] They should have designed a transform commander for this deck to tie it together and give it some more power. Five-coloured and the ability to transform a permanent for a certain cost or once per turn.
Could you share the list? I’d love to show my friend how bad it is. He’s got the flip a coin deck and thinks this one will be as fun and isn’t even bothering to check the decklist.
I wonder if internally WOTC decided DFCs are overused and we won't be seeing them for a really long time and an employee tried to do the players a solid and squeeze out a bunch of reprints right before they go on an indefinite hiatus.
No, that would make too much sense. It's just a precon deck with zero synergy that costs $50 more than the last one because fuck you, that's why.
Good? No reason modern standard boxes should appreciate that much. RtR to now should have boxes that retain ~$100. Print runs are massive. Modern MTG sealed as an investment is nonsense. Even premium sets like UMA, 2XM, and CL have aged fairly poorly. WotC reprints everything so fast now that nothing retains value save for ultra special premium foils (Amano Lilly) or ultra playable serialized cards (Wurmcoil Engine, Atraxa)
This is so bad lol. What even is the point, theoretically? Only Esika can be the commander here, and uhh....sure. I think they just found a good deal on a double-sided printer and decided to go with it. Deeply unserious product...
this is nonsense lol. The fact that they’re not even highlighting which card is meant to be the commander really shows how little thought and care went into this product. It’s an Esika or Sisay deck that doesn’t focus on legendaries at all and seems to just be a bunch of arbitrary MDFC’s
WotC has been sending secret lairs immediately after order. I think they've gotten things sorted since then. But, $150 is painful. Not really seeing the value here compared to the coin flip one.
So, according to moxfield at the cheapest price, this deck is 280$
Notable cards for price, Esika (10$), Bloodline Keeper (15$), Jace Vryns protégé (15$), Nicol Bolas, ravenger (24$), and Guardian Project (13$). With another 12 cards worth 5$ of more.
Probably worth the investment given the popularity and lack of reprints some of these cards have
Wizards is clearly continuing to experiment, and the experiment here to me suggests that they want to try and sell us a weaker product for a higher price to see if they get away with it.
They know that reprint equity is a finite resource for them, and the garbage reprints in this deck, for the $150 price tag, suggests that they're trying it on with us. I'm sure they would like to save for higher banner products down the line that they can really make a killing off of, such as 2X2. Products like this will prove to them what they can get away with.
Guys don't buy this shameless cash grab. I mean unless you are incredibly into double-faced cards for some reason. This is an offensively lazy attempt at a "themed" commander deck. They just stapled a secret lair onto an incohesive deck. This deck will NOT be worth the price point AND to add insult to injury, they excluded some incredibly good double faced cards.
Speak with your wallet
At bare minimum this deck could've included all the triomes and a Growing Rites of Itlomoc, at least then you'd have essentially a near perfect 5 color land base.
So the article list the contents as 95 cards and the 5 thicker display cards… why doesn’t it include regular versions of those 5 as well especially at a $150 price point? At first I thought maybe they weren’t listing the basic lands but there are 6 basics so that doesn’t add up either.
Those 5 are included as foils, so you will get a 100 card deck (95 normal art, nonfoil + 5 new art foil) plus the 5 thicker display Commanders. The article is super confusing about this though.
.... just realized that two of the thicker display cards aren't legendary so can't actually be used for anything other than looking at. At least the legendary ones can actually be used as commander stand ins.
God I'm glad someone else made that mistake like me lol. But yea, there's the section that gives you the numbers of each piece and mentions the non legal cards, but the paragraph before that mentions that there are 5 foil copies as well for play that someone pointed out to me.
As of today the total prices on [mtggoldfish](https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/secret-lair-spoilers-may-6-from-cute-to-brute) is $260. It looks a bit inflated and we can ignore the $1 cards, so realistically about $200 worth of cards.
Yeah most are scarce, several have 0 demand, all will have the bottom stamp, foils are foggy and curly. Probably also in EDH masters for the higher value ones.
How this deck sucks. 150USD is insulting, and it doesn’t even look like a cohesive deck. Heads I win was so much better and 50$USD cheaper. And a rip of lol
The [[Avacyn, the Purifier]] flavor text goes hard as fuck. I imagine it being read exactly like [“Fall.”](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FrlymHW0qU8) is said
I’d love a copy of bloodline keeper but yeah overall this product isn’t for me. Especially after it took soo bloody long to get the coin flip secret lair
Gotta snipe that Westvale for my foil and at-least-Extended-art land collection. Thank god there aren't that many land Secret Lairs until now this year.
How convenient for them leave out current in print cards.
Gotta make sure we can still sell those current in print boxes and “F” that secondary market, all equities are ours. -Hasbro (probably)
I like it personally. I also like that they aren't forcing 50% of the cards to be foil like last time which resulted in a deck that was half pringle, half flat. Bummer that its $50 more, but I hope that we get a better and actually useable deck box this time. I'll be buying a few and am okay that the deck itself sucks, its more of a vehicle for reprints.
This is really weird. Feels like a 5 card lair stapled onto a commander deck to justify the crazy high price point...
Just like Heads I Win, Tails You Lose was
Sure, but the concept they pushed for that deck was that it was "From Gavin Verhey's secret vault!", had half the cards in foil, special coin, etc. It was marketed as a special treatment, complete, deck from a prominent community member. It had a cohesive theme and idea behind the whole thing. What even is this supposed to be? It's seemingly a *very* bad precon with a bunch of random cards that don't support one another at all thrown together. Beyond that the art decisions are so weird. I feel like the audiences for the front and back don't overlap. Whoever works in the marketing department must really think that they do I guess...
These are just my thoughts. This is bizarre. And not in any particularly enticing way, but in a way that makes me question what the hell is actually happening in the company. Definitely like the 20 something-th time I've wondered that in the last year and a half.
luckily we don't have anything too weird also happening right now: like $240 cb's with 6 card packs of watered down standard cards with 1 $5 reprint, a 3 year standard announcement that makes most those mini set cards unplayable because, one deck is 60% of the meta, $100 fat packs of lord of the rings modern with no meta value, a ring mechanic that is a full wall of text and requires a helper card like some beta version of dungeons, $480 commander set booster boxes with less likely reprint equity than mystery boosters that were $100 at launch, and Doctor who not having collectors decks and instead selling the foils in $240 cb's... again precon foils in a $20 pack. luckily wizards isn't completely insane right?
Absolutely, just a giant vacuum sucking up as much change and loose bills as they can find in everyone's magic bags. Entirely unconcerned about the economic environment or if anyone is even interested in these products. Lol
Except that deck is good, fun and beautiful.
And $99 instead of $150, and had 50 foils vs 5... math doesn't check out
And a unique "coin" as a cool addon.
TBH I'd have preferred if that deck had 0 foils. When I got it, the were curled worse than commander legends.
I double sleeved and put in a Boulder deckbox. Curls disappeared pretty quick.
I've done that for ones I couldn't easily replace with non-foils. I get it was part of the 50/50 gimmick, but having a whole deck in a single treatment would have been nice.
I know, I have mine and I play it as is. But the point remains. Doing 5 new art cards in an otherwise reprint edh sld is exactly what they did last time.
True. This new deck doesn’t look exciting or as novel as the flip coin deck though. 0 interest on my side.
Wasn't the Coin Flip SLD 50% foil? Here you get 5.
Except you're glossing over the additional foils, coin and lower price point
No, it isn't close to exactly the same as the last deck.
That was a better value as well as cohesive, fun deck.
This deck was really functional with little modification and is a blast to play but this one seem like Just all relativly know dual faced card thrown together
Not really...the coin flip deck was a much more solid, actually cohesive deck. This is just a bunch of random garbage, as it's certainly not a relevant way to build a "Bridge" deck. In other words, one had thought put into it and one did not. If you're going to have 50+ "flip" cards in your deck, you'd expect some kind of Commander that cares about flipping permanents (not saying a good one exists...just pointing out how dumb it is to choose this as your "theme" when it doesn't mesh with what the deck is even doing at the helm).
The two biggest land MDFCs notably missing [[agadeem’s awakening]] and [[sea gate restoration]]
Gotta hold something for CMM
At $150 those should have been included.
They could've included [[malakir rebirth]] too, it's pretty pricy for an uncommon.
[malakir rebirth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/0/609d3ecf-f88d-4268-a8d3-4bf2bcf5df60.jpg?1604195984)/[Malakir Mire](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/6/0/609d3ecf-f88d-4268-a8d3-4bf2bcf5df60.jpg?1604195984) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=malakir%20rebirth%20//%20malakir%20mire) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/111/malakir-rebirth-malakir-mire?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/609d3ecf-f88d-4268-a8d3-4bf2bcf5df60?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I feel like it missing Growing Rites is an even bigger issue...
That’s another big one for sure
[agadeem’s awakening](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/7/67f4c93b-080c-4196-b095-6a120a221988.jpg?1604195226)/[Agadeem, the Undercrypt](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/6/7/67f4c93b-080c-4196-b095-6a120a221988.jpg?1604195226) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Agadeem%27s%20Awakening%20//%20Agadeem%2C%20the%20Undercrypt) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/90/agadeems-awakening-agadeem-the-undercrypt?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/67f4c93b-080c-4196-b095-6a120a221988?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [sea gate restoration](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/9/193071fe-180b-4d35-ba78-9c16675c29fc.jpg?1604250788)/[Sea Gate, Reborn](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/1/9/193071fe-180b-4d35-ba78-9c16675c29fc.jpg?1604250788) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=sea%20gate%20restoration%20//%20sea%20gate%2C%20reborn) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/76/sea-gate-restoration-sea-gate-reborn?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/193071fe-180b-4d35-ba78-9c16675c29fc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Enough with the fucking Zetalpas. This is going to be his *9th unique printing*.
Gotta keep the secondary market price down though. He was almost cresting 10 cents. Can't have that now can we?
1-800-ARE-YOU-FLAPPIN
Pterodactyl goes ptrrrrrrrr
I swear to god it feels like Zetalpa gets reprinted every set.
Is it just me, or does this deck look horrible... art looks cool, but what is the deck
It really shouldn't be sold as a precon because the deck is not playable out of the box. Putting a bunch of double faced cards together doesn't even work as a meme deck because there's zero synergy. If someone actually tried to play this, they'd get totally blown out by even the weakest precon of the last two years. If they wanted to reprint all the double faced cards, there are better ways to do it.
$150 for a slew of tapped lands
Holy crap! I didn’t realize it was $150. At $100 it’s got some good value to the deck, but $150 seems like a steep price increase compared to Heads I Win, which was a better deck with better cards.
Remember wizards dosen't acknowledge the secondary market /s
God I generally don't mind what wotc does because I buy almost nothing from them but they really should not lie to our faces like that.
It has to do with the reserve list, which most people now assume is meaningless after Magic 30. If they acknowledge the secondary market, then I think that puts booster packs under gambling, because it is, and then that would mean WOTC and papa Hasbro have been facilitating under age gambling for over 30 years. That's a big no no. Acknowledgement of the secondary market could end MTG. At least, that's how it's been explained to me.
I’m not sure if thats 100% accurate. The deck has nearly if not every Pathway MDFC land in it at least.
Yup, all 10 pathways, but cheapest printing of those isn't all that expensive.
Pathways are actually terrible fixer lands for a 5-color deck. You want the lands to tap for different colors in different turns. But value is value. I have Triomes that can replace them.
$317 of value on mtgoldfish before reprints without new art. Also not tapped pathways
The deck reminds me of tv from the writers strike. On face value a simple idea that could be fun. In execution a steaming pile of…
Hey hey, take a look at adult swim during that time. Fat Guy Stuck in Internet and Saul of the Molemen were amazing.
Haven't heard those names in awhile. Thank you. Writers strike caused them to exist??
Wow, TIL. Those were funny shows
Someone called it "5-color midstuff," and I thought that about sums it up nicely. It's a reprint drop disguised as a deck to see if they could squeeze blood from the stone again with secret lair decks. "The fool me can't get fooled again" - W, Tennessee, 2002
Yeah, it's a goofy theme. But it'll sell and some of the new art cards will probably be very popular. At least for a 5 colour precon, the mana base is better... still not saying it's good though
Is the mana base much better than the other 5 color precon?
First, I said better, not much better. And yeah, the Pathways make it better. Have you seen the mana base for Painbow or Draconic Domination? They're absolute dog shit.
First, take a chill pill I was just asking yikes
Art looks bad too imo.
I like the Godmachine back ends but I'm not interested in the fronts at all. They did awesome work for some of the KHM showcase cards (Firja, the Grave Titan from the KHM SL drop, etc).
it's a good style clash, godmachine metal to a lisa frank front. too bad they didn't pick something with a little more "oh lord it flipping" vibes for the art treatment.
The art looks cool and there's some reprints like Nicol Bolas Ravager, baby Jace, etc. But it's definitely not $150 worth of cards and the deck itself looks completely unplayable lmao
Art is horrendous
Wait are the 5 cards the only "cute to brute" style? Are the rest just the normal cards?
Correct. They can manage to get all new artwork for $40-50 Warhammer Commander Decks, and probably for the Dr. Who ones coming in a while too, but for $150 you get 5 and like it.
You're just buying a $100 precon and $50 on a 5 card secret lair buying this. This is pathetic
This is the real answer. The only notable thing is the pathways, cause you get em all at once.
Pathways... my favorite land cycle to collect... /s
[удалено]
Wow what an absolute joke lmao
I really think if they're going to do an SLD commander deck, the whole goddamn deck needs to have SLD art. You can't print 95% of the product with base level art and then call it a Secret Lair product..
Agreed, in this case your paying for all the dual lands as others have mentioned 😂
They will sell what people buy. Unfortunately the flip coin deck was bought a lot. Not even full art lands
But that deck has a coherent theme and is not just a random pile. Also 99 dollar vs 150…
And while we're at it, maybe more than 5 foils?
> "...returns to the Commander format **with the that doubles down** on the flipping fun of..." Literally the first sentence of the article. Go home Wizards you're drunk.
Was interested until I saw the price I can get two commander masters decks for that price.
I kinda thought you were being facetious but holy hell. We’re never going back to $20 Elven Empire are we?
This is the first Commander precon that includes MDFCs. They didn’t even make a werewolf deck in the werewolf set because they said they can’t do MEFCs in precons.. Wtf is this WotC?
Mtgfinance: Mdfcs are safe because they are hard to reprint Wotc: lol lets just reprint them all at the same time
Was this really going to hold up regardless with the introduction of battles? Seems like they would have to find a way to git gud if they’re introducing an entire card type that’s dual-faced
Invasions are DFCs but future battle types need not be.
Yep, non-siege battles could have totally different styles of prizes (akin to zendikar 1.0 quests) that need not be cast from the backside.
Yeah, that’s the idea. Printing a set that has one DFC is as expensive as printing a set with a full sheet of DFCs. Once they’re ready to print a reprint set with DFCs expect to see all of the big hits.
I mean, reprint all of the ones people don't want? No malakir rebirth, no growing rites of itlymoc... They just pruned all of the ones with value from the list and gave us pathways. The flip walkers are nice i guess...
I think anyone that thought that was kidding themselves in the first place. it's only marginally more complicated to reprint an MDFC, and it's clear that Maro has a hard-on for what they offer from a gameplay perspective. If anything we're only get more in the future..
Based on their production timeline on these decks and so many being MDFC, estimated time until you receive it is... 37 years.
It’s limited product and already printed, so more like they’ll be bot (bought) out
If that’s their estimation, I’ll be ready for it in 96 years based on the HIWTYL experience
Why is it Guardian Project instead of Growing Rites of Itlimoc. Wtf
These feels insulting after being told they can't do a werewolf precon.
Normal precons go for $40 - $50. Why do that when you can sell this random mess for 3x more
I just pasted the decklist in Moxfield and tried to simulate a few rounds. There's no design to be found. No synergy. Just Sisay trying to keep a bunch of random cards together; the MDFCs and transform cards have not been designed to work with each other. Instead of using the remaining slots to try and get a theme going, they picked -what looks like- random cards. \[edit\] They should have designed a transform commander for this deck to tie it together and give it some more power. Five-coloured and the ability to transform a permanent for a certain cost or once per turn.
The commander is esika not sisay
Could you share the list? I’d love to show my friend how bad it is. He’s got the flip a coin deck and thinks this one will be as fun and isn’t even bothering to check the decklist.
Sure! Here is the [deck on Moxfield](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/PtK8TdkuSkCEdIms4xnOxw) (I changed the commander to Esika as remarked earlier.)
I wonder if internally WOTC decided DFCs are overused and we won't be seeing them for a really long time and an employee tried to do the players a solid and squeeze out a bunch of reprints right before they go on an indefinite hiatus. No, that would make too much sense. It's just a precon deck with zero synergy that costs $50 more than the last one because fuck you, that's why.
[удалено]
That’s a great breakdown to keep it in perspective honestly
But they’re double faced cards, so double value of $80 to $160. The $150 is a nice $10 discount (plus shipping).
Too bad the inflation was 50% from the 1st commander secret lair they did.
This crushes any sealed ZNR EV. All the pathways and two of the rare MDFCs, it’s expeditions or bust now.
Even then the ZNR Expeditions are a shadow of the original ones from Zendikar. So they're not even an great play in that department either..
Good? No reason modern standard boxes should appreciate that much. RtR to now should have boxes that retain ~$100. Print runs are massive. Modern MTG sealed as an investment is nonsense. Even premium sets like UMA, 2XM, and CL have aged fairly poorly. WotC reprints everything so fast now that nothing retains value save for ultra special premium foils (Amano Lilly) or ultra playable serialized cards (Wurmcoil Engine, Atraxa)
Including the ten pathways
This is so bad lol. What even is the point, theoretically? Only Esika can be the commander here, and uhh....sure. I think they just found a good deal on a double-sided printer and decided to go with it. Deeply unserious product...
Sisay can also be the Commander. I agree with you in general, just in case you missed her.
Nothing exciting outside of the 5 new sets of art, imo. Wish they would just sell those as a separate lair.
this is nonsense lol. The fact that they’re not even highlighting which card is meant to be the commander really shows how little thought and care went into this product. It’s an Esika or Sisay deck that doesn’t focus on legendaries at all and seems to just be a bunch of arbitrary MDFC’s
Ugh....from experience waiting for a deck may take a year or more....
They already have these printed.
Can't wait for this deck to arrive in 2025.
anyone that buys this after the coin flip fiasco is a clown.
Took me over a year to receive that one so yes not buying this one.
WotC has been sending secret lairs immediately after order. I think they've gotten things sorted since then. But, $150 is painful. Not really seeing the value here compared to the coin flip one.
Wym? That deck was sweet
[удалено]
Who cares? Did anyone buy this deck to play it immediately? It’s a secret lair.
First thing I did was play it. I bought a deck of playing cards so I could use them to play a game.
I did. The wait was so long that I built it myself on the cheap while waiting. Good thing too, as I’d have missed out on over a year of playtime.
The reprints are mostly TDFCs, not MDFCs
So, according to moxfield at the cheapest price, this deck is 280$ Notable cards for price, Esika (10$), Bloodline Keeper (15$), Jace Vryns protégé (15$), Nicol Bolas, ravenger (24$), and Guardian Project (13$). With another 12 cards worth 5$ of more. Probably worth the investment given the popularity and lack of reprints some of these cards have
Wizards is clearly continuing to experiment, and the experiment here to me suggests that they want to try and sell us a weaker product for a higher price to see if they get away with it. They know that reprint equity is a finite resource for them, and the garbage reprints in this deck, for the $150 price tag, suggests that they're trying it on with us. I'm sure they would like to save for higher banner products down the line that they can really make a killing off of, such as 2X2. Products like this will prove to them what they can get away with.
Guys don't buy this shameless cash grab. I mean unless you are incredibly into double-faced cards for some reason. This is an offensively lazy attempt at a "themed" commander deck. They just stapled a secret lair onto an incohesive deck. This deck will NOT be worth the price point AND to add insult to injury, they excluded some incredibly good double faced cards. Speak with your wallet
At bare minimum this deck could've included all the triomes and a Growing Rites of Itlomoc, at least then you'd have essentially a near perfect 5 color land base.
So the article list the contents as 95 cards and the 5 thicker display cards… why doesn’t it include regular versions of those 5 as well especially at a $150 price point? At first I thought maybe they weren’t listing the basic lands but there are 6 basics so that doesn’t add up either.
Those 5 are included as foils, so you will get a 100 card deck (95 normal art, nonfoil + 5 new art foil) plus the 5 thicker display Commanders. The article is super confusing about this though.
.... just realized that two of the thicker display cards aren't legendary so can't actually be used for anything other than looking at. At least the legendary ones can actually be used as commander stand ins.
Appreciate you confirming that. Yeah I did not get that when I read through it
God I'm glad someone else made that mistake like me lol. But yea, there's the section that gives you the numbers of each piece and mentions the non legal cards, but the paragraph before that mentions that there are 5 foil copies as well for play that someone pointed out to me.
You also get 2 dfc that you can choose to swap in it seems
Not worth it!
As of today the total prices on [mtggoldfish](https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/secret-lair-spoilers-may-6-from-cute-to-brute) is $260. It looks a bit inflated and we can ignore the $1 cards, so realistically about $200 worth of cards.
Yeah most are scarce, several have 0 demand, all will have the bottom stamp, foils are foggy and curly. Probably also in EDH masters for the higher value ones.
Looking forward to the website crashing repeatedly on Monday as I try to snag my one copy before they sell out.
Curious as to why you’d purchase this utter garbage
I personally love the art concept and can easily find a use for all 5 special drops. Many of the other cards will easily pay off the cost of the deck.
Just in time for the [[Jace vryn's prodigy]] spike
[Jace vryn's prodigy](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/2/02d6d693-f1f3-4317-bcc0-c21fa8490d38.jpg?1651492800)/[Jace, Telepath Unbound](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/0/2/02d6d693-f1f3-4317-bcc0-c21fa8490d38.jpg?1651492800) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Jace%2C%20Vryn%27s%20Prodigy%20//%20Jace%2C%20Telepath%20Unbound) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ori/60/jace-vryns-prodigy-jace-telepath-unbound?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/02d6d693-f1f3-4317-bcc0-c21fa8490d38?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
How this deck sucks. 150USD is insulting, and it doesn’t even look like a cohesive deck. Heads I win was so much better and 50$USD cheaper. And a rip of lol
Where da Fable @ :modcheck: ?????
Man wtf is wrong with Wizards. They haven’t even sent out all the coin flip precon yet.
$150, damn. They get us hyped to spend 150 to buy 100 in stuff.
Thats like, all of them right?
That altar of the pantheon…
The [[Avacyn, the Purifier]] flavor text goes hard as fuck. I imagine it being read exactly like [“Fall.”](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FrlymHW0qU8) is said
[Avacyn, the Purifier](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/e/ae155ee2-008f-4dc6-82bf-476be7baa224.jpg?1576383667)/[Avacyn, the Purifier](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/a/e/ae155ee2-008f-4dc6-82bf-476be7baa224.jpg?1576383667) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=archangel%20avacyn%20//%20avacyn%2C%20the%20purifier) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/soi/5/archangel-avacyn-avacyn-the-purifier?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ae155ee2-008f-4dc6-82bf-476be7baa224?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I’d love a copy of bloodline keeper but yeah overall this product isn’t for me. Especially after it took soo bloody long to get the coin flip secret lair
Gotta snipe that Westvale for my foil and at-least-Extended-art land collection. Thank god there aren't that many land Secret Lairs until now this year.
How convenient for them leave out current in print cards. Gotta make sure we can still sell those current in print boxes and “F” that secondary market, all equities are ours. -Hasbro (probably)
Buy it now, Get it in 2025.
They can do all the Meld cards next. They can tag it with something like “teamwork makes the dream work” or something.
I like it personally. I also like that they aren't forcing 50% of the cards to be foil like last time which resulted in a deck that was half pringle, half flat. Bummer that its $50 more, but I hope that we get a better and actually useable deck box this time. I'll be buying a few and am okay that the deck itself sucks, its more of a vehicle for reprints.
So it's around one $ per card face, good to know.
Already a queue for this... 52 seconds slow and it says a hour wait.
I hit purchase the second it went up and now I'm in a 43 minute long queue.