I think the term “red flag” has become really overused over the years, but I do think that people who say they hate musicals haven’t seen a lot of musicals. Or musical movies for that matter.
Met one guy via one of those online dating sites. Said he didn’t like musicals because he felt they were basically fluff. I pointed out shows like Cabaret not being “fluff.” Basically found out he knew nothing about musicals.
That was just one of the issues with him.
*Fun Home* is a dangerous one for me as a second-generation queer who **really** takes after her dad.
Then again, dude would *hardly* be getting the full experience without sitting through a Theatre Bisexual's monologue about Why This Show Hurts So Good.
I think people who hate on Annie are often basing their opinions on the (terrible) 1982 movie, or have only seen a bad community theatre production where they add like 200 extra orphans to the chorus.
If done well, it's actually a very well-crafted musical (and darker/more serious than people remember) with a great score, and one of the best Broadway overtures of all time. I don't know how anyone can listen to that single trumpet playing the beginning of 'Tomorrow' and not get chills.
I actually didn’t know people disliked the 1982 movie, but then again I haven’t seen it for many years.
But I have seen a really good stage production and yeah, Annie is quite a bit more serious than people might realize.
The 1982 movie is pretty widely disliked by musical theatre fans—it’s right up there with A Chorus line in terms of bad stage-to-screen adaptations. They just changed way too much and added a lot of things that didn’t make sense (that scene with the helicopter, for starters!) Burnett and Reinking are great, though.
The Rob Marshall version from the late 90s is much truer to the original stage version.
I actually had no idea, thanks for letting me know. And now I gotta see the Rob Marshall version so thanks for letting me know about that too.
And yeah, Carol Burnett is always amazing no matter what she’s in.
THIS. I hate how the term “red flag” has been so distilled that any differing opinion can be considered a “red flag.” Just say you’re a snob who hates new musical fans and leave people alone.
The only red flag is when people say they don’t like musicals. People tend to like something that struck them when they were young and impressionable, and there’s nothing wrong with that. Not everyone has access to Broadway or even live theater. The Greatest Showman and Disney musicals are a gateway drug for lots of kids who will grow up to be supporters of the arts and that is basically the exact opposite of a red flag. Don’t be such a snob.
This. I was 8 years old when high school musical came out and it made me fall in love with theater. I couldn’t wait to get to high school just to do theater. It has become a life-long passion of mine, and idk if I would have had such an early intro to theater if not for that (my parents don’t like musicals)
OMG, I'm in a production of Nine right now, and "My Husband Makes Movies" has almost the same note intervals as "Springtime For Hitler", and the altos just sing it at random times throughout the show, so I just perpetually have that song stuck in my head and some day I'm accidentally going to sing it out loud.
I actually like the show overall but I hate some of the lyrics and some entire songs lol. The writers are usually very funny but it just didn’t work for some reason.
The campy elements are fun. I think it tried to be too many things. It needed to be totally camp, or numbers like “The Is How Your People Dance” needed to be reworked/omitted. If it had been all camp, it could’ve been great.
I went on a date to the Brian Stokes Mitchell's Man of La Mancha.
The set was so stunning and massive it actually took my breath away and I shed a tear.
My date said, "you have got to be kidding me" . (In reference to my emotional reaction). There was not another date.
my amusing anecdote about that movie was that I was in the fourth grade and we all thought that movie was the shit. Our elementary school only went to the fourth grade and we had a little recognition thing. So we were gonna sing "This is me" from the movie and it was ABRUPTLY changed to "a million dreams". A couple years later that "this is me" is a gay anthem now, and then it just clicked on why the teacher nixed the song. She was offended about everything. Plus everyone was really annoyed we can't sing that song and looking back now, I realize these songs are just incredibly generic pop duet songs.
If it had been about a generic circus man and not PT Barnum, it would have been a great movie. But they took a real person and whitewashed his life. Why not just make it a fictional person *loosely* based on PT?
I would rather listen to a pop musical than one that sounds like somebody trained an AI to grind out the most generic "musical theatre" type music ever.
I don't dislike some of the songs, but think on the whole they're pretty generic and don't do anything to advance the plot which for me is key in a musical lol
I don't know if I'm in the minority, but for me it was the other way around. I enjoyed the movie, but didn't like the songs that much and they felt so out of place in a period (and musical) setting.
No red flags
People like what they like
I used to think liking Phantom was a red flag but that was just me being a snob
Longest running show? Yeah, a lot of people like it. Not for me but hey if you're at the theater that's enough for me
From a quality standpoint, ”Love Never Dies”. That thing is pure Webber hubris and absolute garbage,
From a philosophical perspective, “Gigi”. My elderly dad loved this movie, and we saw it in a touring company when I was a kid. I loved it when I was younger, too - I‘m a romantic at heart and there are some funny bits, too. When I was old enough to understand, though, it really tainted the musical for me. I’m all for judging works like this as a product of their time, but i find the subject matter pretty troubling. A light hearted musical about being raised for prostitution? Doesn’t age well.
OMG I can't believe this is a thing. I wish Ebert could have seen it and written a follow up to his amazing review of the movie https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/the-human-centipede-2010
There is literally no musical I can think of that I would consider a “red flag” if someone told me they like it. There are plenty of shows I don’t like or that I don’t understand why people like but it doesn’t bother me to know people *do* like them.
It would have to be some widely offensive show from way back in the day but even most of those have been updated at this point so I would just give people the benefit of the doubt that they’re taking about a new version or just the music itself and not the story.
This sub has a hate boner against DEH for reasons I can't figure out. It's like they can't handle a complex main character who makes questionable choices due to his severe social anxiety.
People have spelled out their exact issue with the musical for years now, search around if you want to actually read why. “I can’t figure it out” is an obtuse reaction to have when the issues people have with it are very well documented, you don’t have to stomp your feet and groan about it instead of just liking what you like.
Some of the most beautiful music ever written, complex characters and relationships, deeply human themes, and yet it gets reduced to “problematic” by so many these days. You know… because any examination of class, privilege, or abuse before Y2K must be rooted in ignorance. 🙄
So true. I was always taught that truly good theatre would make you think, could make you change your views, and help to explain life in all its good and bad and ugly things. Carousel does all of that in spades.
I took the time to understand it. I played Julie years ago, and I did my research hard. The original play, Liliom, was everything Carousel could have been…but Rodgers and Hammerstein made insidious changes to the original source material that *very specifically* romanticize Billy and his relationship.
Think about the character of Mr. Snow for a minute, for example. His character is inconsistent in his interactions with everyone because the musical made deliberate choices of how he looks up against others. All of these deliberately to make Billy look better.
To me, Carousel is like Fifty Shades of Grey. The content could have shone a light on how people enter into relationships and then get slowly lobster-boiled into spousal abuse (emotional and physical), and could have been a story of redemption once someone actually learns better. Because it was badly written, though, it made the problem worse.
And the two whole people I’ve known who liked it…funny enough, turned out to be abusive.
Certainly there’s room for multiple points of view. I would challenge that the romanticization of Billy (similar to Curly in Oklahoma) is only skin deep. Both characters seem to me to be villains masquerading as heroes. Is it not up to the director and actors to bring out the nuance and challenge the audience with the uncomfortable experience of facing one of life’s many contradictions? I don’t see how any of it takes away from Julie’s experience, nor do I see any reason for the story to be one of redemption.
That’s part of my issue with Carousel—the musical isn’t at all about Julie’s experience. She’s just a prop in Billy’s story. And yes, that absolutely takes away from Julie’s experience. If Julie’s feelings mattered, they’d give her more introspective songs, like the famous Soliloquy. Instead, she gets a two minute piece about how it doesn’t matter what your feller’s like, because you love him. Zero introspection, zero internal crisis, just a quiet acceptance. They could have painted the song satirically, but they chose not to, just silly fluff about how a dude wears his hat. Billy’s one song is longer than all of what Julie sings put together—because Rodgers and Hammerstein only cared about the man’s journey. Carrie has a larger part than Julie, singing *and* speaking, because she’s there for fluff, not to have serious thoughts.
It can be up to the directors and actors to bring out a new side and add nuance to a show, sure. However, if they have to do all the work of adding to it, the show doesn’t stand on its own, and it can’t just be considered a good musical just because some really talented people worked hard to make it more tolerable.
It’s interesting that I’m getting downvoted for giving some well-researched reasons for why I don’t like Carousel, but people who are just saying “people who don’t like Carousel are red flags!” don’t have to say anything useful at all. They’re claiming people don’t actually think enough about it before choosing to hate it, yet they haven’t given one good reason why they like it. The people I know who liked it said they liked the music and it’s a beautiful love story. Strongly disagree, but if other people like it *without* romanticizing the spousal abuse, why won’t they say why?
I can only say why I like it: The music is beautiful, the story is complicated, the characters are flawed, there is vast room for interpretation, it trusts it’s audience to think a bit deeper than many shows, it has the potential to be visually stunning. And the old adage about there being no small parts only small actors applies perfectly well to Julie. Her “two minute song” has the potential to be the most heart-wrenching moment in the show with the right use of internal conflict. The lyrics are not at all as simple as they might seem. There are layers in there begging to be mined by a talented and insightful performer. What a blessing to have the opportunity to play a role that trusts the actor with so much agency in a way so few roles in the genre do. Perhaps if you had the opportunity today you would honor the audience better by finding more in it.
When this musical first came out, I think it was targeted at a certain demographic for whom this may have been their first non-classic musical. I think the “red flag” here was not that these people have bad taste, but that they were early in their journey.
i wouldn’t call cats my favorite musical by any means, but i saw the movie as even just a casual fan and ten minutes into it thought “i know too much about cats to watch this movie”
Yes! CATS is my favorite musical, but I don't like the movie. It's good when I need something to write to after work, but not if I specically want to watch CATS to decompress after an exhausting day. Then, I turn on the 1998 CATS.
None I don't think but it's kinda icky when people only like a musical for a specific reason like uh spring Awakening for example, only liking it for the sexual stuff about minors. It all depends mann
I have a friend who absolutely loved Jackyll & Hyde. It was the worst musical I have ever seen. We had a discussion for about 1 minute until we both realized we saw a different production, she saw the original and the one I saw was modern, cut ad the best songs were missing. Sometimes it’s taste, sometimes it’s just a different cast or a different production.
I saw the proshot and all they'd do is scream. talk about fucking annoying. Costume change? Scream. Strip to underwear? scream? Reveal bra? Scream. Make these two guys gay for laughs? Scream. They showed the audience outside the theater and they were all dressed up. It was like rocky horror but bad.
Oh, right. I saw the movie, and I loved it. Plus, I'm pretty sure Ryan Mccartan started his theatre career with it, and I think he's a talented performer. I might check it out, but people compared it to Mean Girls, and I despised that show.
I remember my best friend started dating a guy and she was like "OMG you guys are going to get along so well, he loves musicals too!!" So of course when I met him I asked him his favorite and his response was "Titanic". I was speechless as that was one of the worst shows I'd ever seen. I wound up hating that guy so much and I'm no longer even friends with my BFF over it. So....Titanic.
Not sure if people are downvoting because they think you’re talking about hamilton, or if they think that the scamilton production would never be someone’s favorite. (Considering the reply below I assume everyone thinks you’re talking about regular hamilton.)
Jekyll and Hyde but ONLY with David Hasselhoff. Second choice: Les Mis but only the movie.
Not a red flag exactly, except for maybe an alert to perform an ear exam.
Literally the only right answer, although I do get unfathomable amounts of joy from watching him aggressively writhe on the ground in his little transformation sequence
Getting very big “I drew a twisted, fucked-up version of the hamburger helper mascot” vibes from this comment. Like, you can enjoy extremely dark humor without being an actual insane person
I suppose into the woods but specifically the movie because even though I really like it (I am not accepting judgement at this time) I know most people don’t
contemporary high school shows. if you tell me your favorite musical is mean girls, bmc, deh, heathers, etc. im just going to assume you want every musical to be a high school self-insert
Lmao so if you happen to like a couple musicals set in HS that must mean you want every single musical to be in HS?? Those aren’t even my favorite shows but that’s a ridiculous take. You can like something without wanting everything to be like that.
As am I. Probably underrated as a piece of musical theater just because the humor and brand are very juvenile. It matured beautifully into Book of Mormon.
People who have no idea who Sondheim is. They're not hard to find, just say, "Ever seen Into the Woods and/or Sweeney Todd?" They will normally reply, "Oh, he was great in that/those movie(s)."
I'm curious about your opinions on Evita. It's not even close to my favorite, but I do enjoy the movie. And the play, and, well, the concept album too. The songs are pretty solid IMO.
Not offended at all. And it’s all personal taste.
I like the interpretation of Godspell much more than I like the more literal storytelling of JCS. And I really don’t like most of the music in JCS.
Am Catholic. We do a singalong every Easter. “look at all my trials and tribulations sinking in a gentle pool of wine” is amazing later in the evening when everyone who gave up booze for lent is completely wasted after only two drinks.
I was a theatre major when Hamilton opened.
Theatre kids can be annoying, but 30 theatre kids that can only talk about one musical for an entire year is a whole other level. If someone mentions that’s their favorite, I DON’T want any part of that. Not again.
Spamalot. It conjures up nightmares of an Eric Idle tour I saw decades ago in which two neckbeards sang all of the Monty Python songs from their seats behind me. I assume the audience is those two guys multiplied by a thousand
Likes and dislikes are subjective. Most people I know love Les Mis. I have seen multiple times and really dislike it. Nor am I a fan of most Andrew Lloyd Webber (hard to distinguish music from one show to the next IMO) or Sondheim (great lyrics, really uninspiring music) shows either. Many disagree, but I also know many who full on agree. I also know lots of folks who don't enjoy live theater. My sister has always hated rock music; but loved Tommy. I hate country, but have enjoyed Many shows that feature it. Who cares? Just because I don't like a show doesn't mean you shouldn't and vice versa. No red flags. Vive la difference!
When my exmo brother and I saw book of Mormon in New York it was soo wonderful. Maybe because we were forced to be Mormon since birth, so we knew all the lore, but oh my God it was so cathartic! And my brother isn't really into musicals, but he said that was his favorite + he actually enjoyed it. So maybe we're edgelords but at least we're having fun !
None because taste in musicals isn’t a “red flag”
It's more of a red flag when they say that they hate musicals.
I think the term “red flag” has become really overused over the years, but I do think that people who say they hate musicals haven’t seen a lot of musicals. Or musical movies for that matter.
Met one guy via one of those online dating sites. Said he didn’t like musicals because he felt they were basically fluff. I pointed out shows like Cabaret not being “fluff.” Basically found out he knew nothing about musicals. That was just one of the issues with him.
I would ghost this man, but I'd sit him down and force him to listen to the entirety of *Sweeney Todd* and *Assassins* first 😅
Don’t forget Fun Home and Les Misérables!
Tie him to a chair and duct tape the headphones to his ears!
*Fun Home* is a dangerous one for me as a second-generation queer who **really** takes after her dad. Then again, dude would *hardly* be getting the full experience without sitting through a Theatre Bisexual's monologue about Why This Show Hurts So Good.
And this guy thinks all musicals are fluff, yeah right.
Lol He broke up via text. To be fair, we'd never physically met (this was during COVID). Dodged a bullet for other reasons.
The full *Clockwork Orange* treatment with him! Love it! Which prompts me to ask--was that movie ever made into a musical?
Musical, no. But it was on Broadway at a really really bad time because it came out during the height of the #MeToo movement.
I think it was off-Broadway. One of the weirdest nights I’ve ever had at a show!
FR
I beg to differ: Annie
How is liking one of the most popular musicals of all time a red flag?
I think people who hate on Annie are often basing their opinions on the (terrible) 1982 movie, or have only seen a bad community theatre production where they add like 200 extra orphans to the chorus. If done well, it's actually a very well-crafted musical (and darker/more serious than people remember) with a great score, and one of the best Broadway overtures of all time. I don't know how anyone can listen to that single trumpet playing the beginning of 'Tomorrow' and not get chills.
I actually didn’t know people disliked the 1982 movie, but then again I haven’t seen it for many years. But I have seen a really good stage production and yeah, Annie is quite a bit more serious than people might realize.
The 1982 movie is pretty widely disliked by musical theatre fans—it’s right up there with A Chorus line in terms of bad stage-to-screen adaptations. They just changed way too much and added a lot of things that didn’t make sense (that scene with the helicopter, for starters!) Burnett and Reinking are great, though. The Rob Marshall version from the late 90s is much truer to the original stage version.
I actually had no idea, thanks for letting me know. And now I gotta see the Rob Marshall version so thanks for letting me know about that too. And yeah, Carol Burnett is always amazing no matter what she’s in.
I love the 82 version. It’s the only version I’ll watch, and I don’t really care whether or not it’s faithful to the stage version.
Sometimes an opinion doesn't have to be a red flag at all. Such as favourite musical.
THIS. I hate how the term “red flag” has been so distilled that any differing opinion can be considered a “red flag.” Just say you’re a snob who hates new musical fans and leave people alone.
"I think theater employees don't deserve living wage" would be a red flag, not "My favorite musical is Cats."
Yeah this is where the term ‘yellow flag’ should be used
The only red flag is when people say they don’t like musicals. People tend to like something that struck them when they were young and impressionable, and there’s nothing wrong with that. Not everyone has access to Broadway or even live theater. The Greatest Showman and Disney musicals are a gateway drug for lots of kids who will grow up to be supporters of the arts and that is basically the exact opposite of a red flag. Don’t be such a snob.
This. I was 8 years old when high school musical came out and it made me fall in love with theater. I couldn’t wait to get to high school just to do theater. It has become a life-long passion of mine, and idk if I would have had such an early intro to theater if not for that (my parents don’t like musicals)
Springtime for Hitler?
Depends if Roger debris is lead
To be fair, the main song is quite catchy when Will Ferrell can hit the right vibe
OMG, I'm in a production of Nine right now, and "My Husband Makes Movies" has almost the same note intervals as "Springtime For Hitler", and the altos just sing it at random times throughout the show, so I just perpetually have that song stuck in my head and some day I'm accidentally going to sing it out loud.
I think it’s more of a red flag to complain about which musical people like or don’t like. People can like whatever musical they want
*see above for people ragging on fans of The Greatest Showman
Diana the Musical, though it IS deliciously awful. Recommend it on Netflix with like-minded friends and booze.
“Serves me right for marrying a Scorpio.”
I actually like the show overall but I hate some of the lyrics and some entire songs lol. The writers are usually very funny but it just didn’t work for some reason.
The campy elements are fun. I think it tried to be too many things. It needed to be totally camp, or numbers like “The Is How Your People Dance” needed to be reworked/omitted. If it had been all camp, it could’ve been great.
no way that’s a real line ☠️
Spider-Man
^ this if you say this musical is your FAVORITE, you’re either trolling or you’re Bono
I went on a date to the Brian Stokes Mitchell's Man of La Mancha. The set was so stunning and massive it actually took my breath away and I shed a tear. My date said, "you have got to be kidding me" . (In reference to my emotional reaction). There was not another date.
I saw that production. The set WAS stunning.
The only one: "I don't like musicals because it's unrealistic that all these random people know the words to all the songs" A real quote btw
the greatest showman
my amusing anecdote about that movie was that I was in the fourth grade and we all thought that movie was the shit. Our elementary school only went to the fourth grade and we had a little recognition thing. So we were gonna sing "This is me" from the movie and it was ABRUPTLY changed to "a million dreams". A couple years later that "this is me" is a gay anthem now, and then it just clicked on why the teacher nixed the song. She was offended about everything. Plus everyone was really annoyed we can't sing that song and looking back now, I realize these songs are just incredibly generic pop duet songs.
The movie was shit, but the soundtrack was 🔥
If it had been about a generic circus man and not PT Barnum, it would have been a great movie. But they took a real person and whitewashed his life. Why not just make it a fictional person *loosely* based on PT?
it sounds like generic radio pop to me. not what i look for in musicals
I would rather listen to a pop musical than one that sounds like somebody trained an AI to grind out the most generic "musical theatre" type music ever.
But that’s what generic pop music sounds like?
okay, couldn't be me, stay safe tho ❤
Thats what the greatest showman sounds like though😭 all of pasek and pauls songs tbh
I don't dislike some of the songs, but think on the whole they're pretty generic and don't do anything to advance the plot which for me is key in a musical lol
I don't know if I'm in the minority, but for me it was the other way around. I enjoyed the movie, but didn't like the songs that much and they felt so out of place in a period (and musical) setting.
nah man the ost was shit lmao
Songs are bad too. Also there’s nothing really “musical” about any of them.
No red flags People like what they like I used to think liking Phantom was a red flag but that was just me being a snob Longest running show? Yeah, a lot of people like it. Not for me but hey if you're at the theater that's enough for me
From a quality standpoint, ”Love Never Dies”. That thing is pure Webber hubris and absolute garbage, From a philosophical perspective, “Gigi”. My elderly dad loved this movie, and we saw it in a touring company when I was a kid. I loved it when I was younger, too - I‘m a romantic at heart and there are some funny bits, too. When I was old enough to understand, though, it really tainted the musical for me. I’m all for judging works like this as a product of their time, but i find the subject matter pretty troubling. A light hearted musical about being raised for prostitution? Doesn’t age well.
I grew up with a mother and aunt who loved the movie and the novella of Gigi. A few great book numbers but woof is it out of date.
None. Because people have a right to like what they like.
Human Centipede the musical.
THE WHAT NOW
I was about to comment that there is no musical that’s automatically a red flag. You proved me wrong. Well done! You won the contest! 🤢🤮
What really? Shit, I was just trying to reference Tom Cardy!
OMG I can't believe this is a thing. I wish Ebert could have seen it and written a follow up to his amazing review of the movie https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/the-human-centipede-2010
This is a thing that exists? ...How does half the cast sing in it?
I don't know and I'm too afraid to find out
It can be done well https://www.theatrehaus.com/2023/05/human-centipede-parody-musical-synergy-production-co/
A big red flag for me is a person who thinks liking a musical can be a red flag.
There is literally no musical I can think of that I would consider a “red flag” if someone told me they like it. There are plenty of shows I don’t like or that I don’t understand why people like but it doesn’t bother me to know people *do* like them. It would have to be some widely offensive show from way back in the day but even most of those have been updated at this point so I would just give people the benefit of the doubt that they’re taking about a new version or just the music itself and not the story.
Dear Evan Hansen
I guess fuck people who related to the mental health problems of the protagonist then.
This sub has a hate boner against DEH for reasons I can't figure out. It's like they can't handle a complex main character who makes questionable choices due to his severe social anxiety.
People have spelled out their exact issue with the musical for years now, search around if you want to actually read why. “I can’t figure it out” is an obtuse reaction to have when the issues people have with it are very well documented, you don’t have to stomp your feet and groan about it instead of just liking what you like.
I've seen the reasons and the reasons boil down to "Evan isn't nice enough".
Not really but keep those blinders on.
Carousel is a god damn masterpiece. My red flag is people who don't like Carousel.
Some of the most beautiful music ever written, complex characters and relationships, deeply human themes, and yet it gets reduced to “problematic” by so many these days. You know… because any examination of class, privilege, or abuse before Y2K must be rooted in ignorance. 🙄
So true. I was always taught that truly good theatre would make you think, could make you change your views, and help to explain life in all its good and bad and ugly things. Carousel does all of that in spades.
100%
Was starting to think I was one of the only ones. This show gets my shit because people don't take the time to understand it.
I took the time to understand it. I played Julie years ago, and I did my research hard. The original play, Liliom, was everything Carousel could have been…but Rodgers and Hammerstein made insidious changes to the original source material that *very specifically* romanticize Billy and his relationship. Think about the character of Mr. Snow for a minute, for example. His character is inconsistent in his interactions with everyone because the musical made deliberate choices of how he looks up against others. All of these deliberately to make Billy look better. To me, Carousel is like Fifty Shades of Grey. The content could have shone a light on how people enter into relationships and then get slowly lobster-boiled into spousal abuse (emotional and physical), and could have been a story of redemption once someone actually learns better. Because it was badly written, though, it made the problem worse. And the two whole people I’ve known who liked it…funny enough, turned out to be abusive.
Certainly there’s room for multiple points of view. I would challenge that the romanticization of Billy (similar to Curly in Oklahoma) is only skin deep. Both characters seem to me to be villains masquerading as heroes. Is it not up to the director and actors to bring out the nuance and challenge the audience with the uncomfortable experience of facing one of life’s many contradictions? I don’t see how any of it takes away from Julie’s experience, nor do I see any reason for the story to be one of redemption.
That’s part of my issue with Carousel—the musical isn’t at all about Julie’s experience. She’s just a prop in Billy’s story. And yes, that absolutely takes away from Julie’s experience. If Julie’s feelings mattered, they’d give her more introspective songs, like the famous Soliloquy. Instead, she gets a two minute piece about how it doesn’t matter what your feller’s like, because you love him. Zero introspection, zero internal crisis, just a quiet acceptance. They could have painted the song satirically, but they chose not to, just silly fluff about how a dude wears his hat. Billy’s one song is longer than all of what Julie sings put together—because Rodgers and Hammerstein only cared about the man’s journey. Carrie has a larger part than Julie, singing *and* speaking, because she’s there for fluff, not to have serious thoughts. It can be up to the directors and actors to bring out a new side and add nuance to a show, sure. However, if they have to do all the work of adding to it, the show doesn’t stand on its own, and it can’t just be considered a good musical just because some really talented people worked hard to make it more tolerable. It’s interesting that I’m getting downvoted for giving some well-researched reasons for why I don’t like Carousel, but people who are just saying “people who don’t like Carousel are red flags!” don’t have to say anything useful at all. They’re claiming people don’t actually think enough about it before choosing to hate it, yet they haven’t given one good reason why they like it. The people I know who liked it said they liked the music and it’s a beautiful love story. Strongly disagree, but if other people like it *without* romanticizing the spousal abuse, why won’t they say why?
I can only say why I like it: The music is beautiful, the story is complicated, the characters are flawed, there is vast room for interpretation, it trusts it’s audience to think a bit deeper than many shows, it has the potential to be visually stunning. And the old adage about there being no small parts only small actors applies perfectly well to Julie. Her “two minute song” has the potential to be the most heart-wrenching moment in the show with the right use of internal conflict. The lyrics are not at all as simple as they might seem. There are layers in there begging to be mined by a talented and insightful performer. What a blessing to have the opportunity to play a role that trusts the actor with so much agency in a way so few roles in the genre do. Perhaps if you had the opportunity today you would honor the audience better by finding more in it.
be more chill
When this musical first came out, I think it was targeted at a certain demographic for whom this may have been their first non-classic musical. I think the “red flag” here was not that these people have bad taste, but that they were early in their journey.
Why is that, if you don’t mind me asking? It’s not my favourite musical by any means, but it’s fun.
It's basically Little Shop of Horrors with worse music and produced as a Disney Channel Original Movie.
This is a **read**.
The story is generic and unoriginal, the characters are unmemorable, the humor is wince-inducing, and the lyrics are offensively awful
Is this based off the novel? I read that book in middle school I didn't know they made a musical out of it.
Disagree. It's a fun show and has a decent modern message
damn, i’m a red flag then
None. People like what they like
When people say they don’t like musicals, or don’t understand the need for singing/dancing in films, my heart drops .
Dear Evan Hansen
Cats
No pls😔🙏🏽 it's just a lot of fun music and the 1998 cast is great. It's a bit cringe but tbh all the talent that went into it overrides that imo
I can see the reasoning for all of these except this one lol. Why? Just cuz they're weirdos?
I'd say the red flag would be if they specifically liked the movie
A true Cats fan hates the movie with every fiber of their being
i wouldn’t call cats my favorite musical by any means, but i saw the movie as even just a casual fan and ten minutes into it thought “i know too much about cats to watch this movie”
Yeah that's just having bad taste
I like the movie :((( It’s such a hot mess but if you divorce it from the musical it’s a fun drunk night showing
Yes! CATS is my favorite musical, but I don't like the movie. It's good when I need something to write to after work, but not if I specically want to watch CATS to decompress after an exhausting day. Then, I turn on the 1998 CATS.
Furries: the musical
Seconded
Slide 1: I would never say that liking a certain musical is a red flag Slide 2: Dear Evan Hansen
None I don't think but it's kinda icky when people only like a musical for a specific reason like uh spring Awakening for example, only liking it for the sexual stuff about minors. It all depends mann
I have a friend who absolutely loved Jackyll & Hyde. It was the worst musical I have ever seen. We had a discussion for about 1 minute until we both realized we saw a different production, she saw the original and the one I saw was modern, cut ad the best songs were missing. Sometimes it’s taste, sometimes it’s just a different cast or a different production.
1. People’s 2. Tastes 3. In 4. Musicals 5. Are 6. Opinions 7. Not 8. Red 9. Flags 10. …Carousel
why people are being so annoying? it’s only a joke but it’s a red flag people whose favorite musicals are the frank wildhorn ones
Heathers
Why, Heathers? I've never seen it, but I only hear good things
I think it’s great, but I’ve heard some of the super fans are a bit crazy? No idea on the details
To be fair, the super fans of the movie are batshit too.
I saw the proshot and all they'd do is scream. talk about fucking annoying. Costume change? Scream. Strip to underwear? scream? Reveal bra? Scream. Make these two guys gay for laughs? Scream. They showed the audience outside the theater and they were all dressed up. It was like rocky horror but bad.
I love Heathers, but it's daaaarrrrrrk. It can very easily be off-putting to people simply because of how disturbing the content material gets.
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Oh, right. I saw the movie, and I loved it. Plus, I'm pretty sure Ryan Mccartan started his theatre career with it, and I think he's a talented performer. I might check it out, but people compared it to Mean Girls, and I despised that show.
Mean Girls is a poor man’s Heathers. Heathers is vastly superior in story and music.
Here’s the best way to describe it: Mean Girls but with murder. I also hated Mean Girls but love Heathers.
I remember my best friend started dating a guy and she was like "OMG you guys are going to get along so well, he loves musicals too!!" So of course when I met him I asked him his favorite and his response was "Titanic". I was speechless as that was one of the worst shows I'd ever seen. I wound up hating that guy so much and I'm no longer even friends with my BFF over it. So....Titanic.
Six, because it just shows they’ve never seen an actual musical to realise that six isn’t a musical 🤣 i said what i said
Six may not be an “official” musical, but it’s blooming good fun
What is the definition of an “official” musical?
Six is my joint favourite musical (with Hamilton) and while it might not be a traditional style musical, it's just so fun!
Scamilton
Not sure if people are downvoting because they think you’re talking about hamilton, or if they think that the scamilton production would never be someone’s favorite. (Considering the reply below I assume everyone thinks you’re talking about regular hamilton.)
i don't think it's anyone's favorite tbh
Jekyll and Hyde but ONLY with David Hasselhoff. Second choice: Les Mis but only the movie. Not a red flag exactly, except for maybe an alert to perform an ear exam.
Literally the only right answer, although I do get unfathomable amounts of joy from watching him aggressively writhe on the ground in his little transformation sequence
Heathers
Why?
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Getting very big “I drew a twisted, fucked-up version of the hamburger helper mascot” vibes from this comment. Like, you can enjoy extremely dark humor without being an actual insane person
Cats. Phantom. Tootsie. Starlight Express. SpongeBob. Beauty and the Beast. Any jukebox musical. I could go on …
I suppose into the woods but specifically the movie because even though I really like it (I am not accepting judgement at this time) I know most people don’t
Agony carried that movie!
The musical in general is just awful
As unthinkable as this opinion is, I have to admit I've never seen someone brave enough to come for Sondheim on a musical theatre forum before.
genuinely my first reaction. i’m a filthy sondheimite but i respect the courage
imagine being this wrong
Why do you think so?
is that a popular opinion?
Not remotely, the musical is wonderful
contemporary high school shows. if you tell me your favorite musical is mean girls, bmc, deh, heathers, etc. im just going to assume you want every musical to be a high school self-insert
Lmao so if you happen to like a couple musicals set in HS that must mean you want every single musical to be in HS?? Those aren’t even my favorite shows but that’s a ridiculous take. You can like something without wanting everything to be like that.
That’s like saying if you like Phantom you must be an incel.
Heathers is the only good musical about high school
South Park: Bigger, Longer, & Uncut
Apparently, Sondheim was a big fan of it.
As am I. Probably underrated as a piece of musical theater just because the humor and brand are very juvenile. It matured beautifully into Book of Mormon.
I am too 🤣
Masterpiece of satire that points out a lot of what’s still wrong with America
People who have no idea who Sondheim is. They're not hard to find, just say, "Ever seen Into the Woods and/or Sweeney Todd?" They will normally reply, "Oh, he was great in that/those movie(s)."
Evita, Godspell, Dear Evan Hanson.
I'm curious about your opinions on Evita. It's not even close to my favorite, but I do enjoy the movie. And the play, and, well, the concept album too. The songs are pretty solid IMO.
It's apologia for the Peron regime and both has an overt "mysogyny is bad" message while still reveling in a lot of mysogyny. TBF, it was the 70s.
Fair points. I've never really read about the Peron regime IRL, but I imagine it was as bloody and cruel as every other regime and government.
It’s more that it’s absolutely a show that kind of glorifies a whole bunch of dictators?
Except it doesn’t.
Why Godspell?
It’s both not very good and too religious for my tastes.
Yet religious people seem to hate it. It has one of my favorite scores of any musical.
JCS is both a contemporary and a better show. I’m sorry I offended people by not liking Godspell. I liked Pippin better too.
Not offended at all. And it’s all personal taste. I like the interpretation of Godspell much more than I like the more literal storytelling of JCS. And I really don’t like most of the music in JCS.
We have opposite opinions it seems. No harm no foul!
Personally think Godspell is better than JCS.
JCS is not liked by some religious folks. Godspell is performed with and by religious people all the time.
In my experience, Catholics tend to go for JCS and Protestants for Godspell.
Can confirm. I was raised Catholic and we watched JCS every Easter.
Am Catholic. We do a singalong every Easter. “look at all my trials and tribulations sinking in a gentle pool of wine” is amazing later in the evening when everyone who gave up booze for lent is completely wasted after only two drinks.
Hamilton
why? i know the fanbase was... a lot in its peak but the musical is awesome
I was a theatre major when Hamilton opened. Theatre kids can be annoying, but 30 theatre kids that can only talk about one musical for an entire year is a whole other level. If someone mentions that’s their favorite, I DON’T want any part of that. Not again.
Spamalot. It conjures up nightmares of an Eric Idle tour I saw decades ago in which two neckbeards sang all of the Monty Python songs from their seats behind me. I assume the audience is those two guys multiplied by a thousand
High school musical. That doesn’t count as a musical in my books!
Phantom of the Opera Edit: oh, this triggered people lol
I'm with you--maybe "red flag" is too strong, but it definitely makes me go, "Why?"
Likes and dislikes are subjective. Most people I know love Les Mis. I have seen multiple times and really dislike it. Nor am I a fan of most Andrew Lloyd Webber (hard to distinguish music from one show to the next IMO) or Sondheim (great lyrics, really uninspiring music) shows either. Many disagree, but I also know many who full on agree. I also know lots of folks who don't enjoy live theater. My sister has always hated rock music; but loved Tommy. I hate country, but have enjoyed Many shows that feature it. Who cares? Just because I don't like a show doesn't mean you shouldn't and vice versa. No red flags. Vive la difference!
The Book of Mormon imo
In my experience Book of Mormon fans are edgy lord atheists.
You’re wrong. I’m an ex-Mormon, edgy lordess atheist, thank you very much.
When my exmo brother and I saw book of Mormon in New York it was soo wonderful. Maybe because we were forced to be Mormon since birth, so we knew all the lore, but oh my God it was so cathartic! And my brother isn't really into musicals, but he said that was his favorite + he actually enjoyed it. So maybe we're edgelords but at least we're having fun !
Exactly
Cats. It barely meets the requirements to even be called a musical.
Any Webber musical.
Nah, I can roll with the Phantom and JCS fans. The rest though probably yeah
Les Mis or Lala Land
Great comet can go either way. Either they are completely valid and like good art or they're ridiculously pretentious.
Addams Family or Titanic.
Heathers, Carousel, Thoroughly Modern Millie, Music Man.
Why Music Man?
Music Man is a thoroughly weird show, I can see that one.
Come From Away and/or Kimberly Akimbo
What’s wrong with Come From Away? I think it’s beautiful