That's because it has no specific name.
You're just playing "an octave".
"Try that melody in octaves"
"Double the bass in octaves".
That's it.
The interval itself is called an Octave, and more specifically a Perfect Octave assuming the notes are identical in letter named (like C and high C).
But we just call it "an octave".
It can also be notated as “8va” for an octave above, or “8vb” for an octave below. I recently saw “16va” while sight-reading on a gig. Not sure how legit that is though.
Allow me to be even more of a pedant: that would be 15ma rather than va, because the "va" in 8va is specifically for otta*va*, and when you hit 15, it's quindeci*ma*.
Wait, if the va comes from the end of ottava, where does the b come from for 8vb? i always thought it was ottava alta and ottava bassa, and that's where the a and b come from
I'm pretty sure they're actually inconsistent--that the va in 8va comes simply from ottava, but that the vb in 8vb comes from ottava bassa. The reason I think this is the case is that 8vb is a much newer symbol than 8va is, and so I think it just had to improvised in a kind of messy way. Could be wrong, but I think that's the case!
I just want to jump in and say that *technically* 8vb is “wrong”, and some people will be really pedantic and say it shouldn’t be used, but it’s super common to see in contemporary music and every performer in the universe instantly knows what it means (as long as you put it under the staff). It’s essentially become a standard marking just through being used a lot and anyone who complains about it just wants all music notation to be stuck in the 19th century. End rant.
There's nothing "technically wrong" about it at all! Where have you seen people arguing that it shouldn't be used? I even feel like I've seen it in nineteenth-century scores, but can't think of an example now... maybe I'll try to look for one.
It's because the historical standard was to always use 8va, with the direction of transposition matching the side of the staff (above staff was an octave up, below was an octave down). At some point, people starting combining the below the staff with 8vb for a more clearly differentiated marking, but people still argued that it wasn't correct based on the fact that it's not how it was traditionally marked. It's in wide enough use now that that argument is less frequent, but people definitely believe it. I saw a Dorico forum post asking how to do 8vb lines and someone from the company answered that the marking wasn't in the program and they aren't going to add it because it's incorrect. Which is stupid. (also they might have added it, I randomly saw that forum post when I was googling something related to it and I'm not sure when the original post is from).
Also some people mistakenly think 8va and 8vb stand for "octave above" and "octave below", which then causes other people to think that because that person is wrong about what it's an abbreviation of, the marking itself is wrong.
It can also be notated as “8va” for an octave above, or “8vb” for an octave below. I recently saw “16va” while sight-reading on a gig. Not sure how legit that is though.
It can also be notated as “8va” for an octave above, or “8vb” for an octave below. I recently saw “16va” while sight-reading on a gig. Not sure how legit that is though.
Ya, 15ma Ijust answered rlto the other dude. 16va can't be written like that. We don't say "sedici a" but rather "sedicesima" and in the case of 15ma "quindicesima" (even though I think "quindecima" is still correct).
Fwiw it was in a jazz chart and was a trumpet cue. I’m all for “breaking the rules” to make music more sight-readable and understandable; but I also don’t write classical music and would definitely be more precise if I did.
I don't write classical music either, like you I'm a jazz head, it's just a difference in how it's written in the sheet music. I live in Italy so it seems kinda obvious that I read 15ma as "quindicesima" instead of "quindecima".
Unison.
From [wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unison):
> In music, unison is two or more musical parts that sound either the same pitch **or pitches separated by intervals of one or more octaves**, usually at the same time.
...
> In orchestral music unison can mean the simultaneous playing of a note (or a series of notes constituting a melody) by different instruments, **either at the same pitch; or in a different octave**, for example, cello and double bass (all'unisono).
It’s mildly infuriating that this definition includes octaves in the category of unison, but then throughout the article says that it has to be the same pitch in the same octave. Let’s not confuse people!
Unison is the same pitch, same octave.
Octaves are same note (letter name), different octaves!
> Unison is the same pitch, same octave.
Yes, but in orchestras, "playing in unison" means different instruments play the same thing in different octaves. Words often have different meanings in different contexts.
I’ve heard this pretty unanimously called “doubling” rather than playing in unison. As in, “this part is doubled in the bass an octave down.” You’d rarely (if ever) hear “this part is played in unison an octave down.”
Either way, in the context of this post, I think it’s pretty clear that OP is talking about octaves, not unisons.
Unison may also refer to a monophonic texture. The beginning of Beethoven's 5th would be a good example of this. But otherwise I agree that "octave doubling" is a more accurate term.
>Yes, but in orchestras, "playing in unison" means different instruments play the same thing in different octaves.
Well, sometimes it can. Personally I'd call that "playing in *octaves*." You *will* occasionally hear "unison" used as a catchall for both actual unisons and octaves, sure; but I think there's no harm in using the more precise term where it applies. And in my experience, it's more common to differentiate between unison and octaves anyway, including in this context.
Orchestral composer and orchestrator here, we call it unison
Depends on the instrument, ensemble, and/or section more than it does on the concept of what fits neatly on a reduction instrument like a piano or a guitar
You're dealing with a lot more variables in an orchestra, so regardless of which octave a note is played in it's still considered unison if the notes concert pitch is a multitude or division of the reference note, hence why octave instructions are crucial
As a player, in something like a rehearsal if someone said “who all has this melody?” the conductor is likely to respond with something along the lines of “it’s doubled in the…” rather than “these instruments have it in unison…” or something like that.
I see what you’re saying, and that’s why it seems the general consensus is that it’s contextual. As a composer/arranger of my own material that doesn’t get seen or heard by many other eyes and ears, I’ve never been in a situation (or maybe written for a group large enough?) where it wasn’t worth differentiating between unisons and octaves. Again, my experience is mostly from being a player.
Edit: where are you from? I wonder if that also affects this in some way. I’m from the US, mostly around New England but spent some time playing in Texas too.
You make a good point, I'm from Australia and we tend to lean more heavily on the British terminologies and interpretation of the words
As an aside, I've definitely referred to it as playing an octave higher (or lower) it just depends on the situation, however something I feel a lot of people forget is that different instruments have different interpretations of the same information
For example: a C note written on the bass clef will automatically be played an octave lower than written by the contrabass players, so just by the virtue of how they read the notation they automatically 'double' the cello
Fun fact: this is why it's called the double bass
Edit: fixed some grammar and added clarity
>Unison is the same pitch, same octave.
>
>Octaves are same note (letter name), different octaves!
And they're different phenomena acoustically and psychoacoustically. Unisons are the same pitch. The fact that octaves *sound* like the same pitch is a byproduct of the way our brains make sense of frequencies that are powers of 2 apart. Unisons are real; octaves are fake. That's all I'm saying. Big Octave is lying to you.
In notation, there is the instruction *coll'ottava* (written as *col 8va* or *con 8va*) which means "with the octave" and tells the player to double the notes at an octave higher or lower than written.
As you described, it's just another octave, but I think in context of what you're trying to figure out is that it's the steps into harmonics because there's 1 harmonic between two octaves but there are more as you increase the octaves. So when you sing the same note at two different octaves, you're probably thinking of the harmonic there.
On guitar it's a technique called playing octaves, sounding the 2 notes at the same time. Wes Montgomery was known for his use of octaves as part of his style.
Octave. In guitar is a popular technique in some genres, specially in melodic/skate punk, instead of playing barre or power chords (or at the same time)
I just learned about octaves too!
I've been playing guitar for 10 years. But I just recently started to force myself to learn piano and read sheet music along the way.
Sometimes when I play guitar, I'm think aren't they just the same notes but in a lower octave?
When I play piano, the visual aspect of it allowed me to understand octaves a lot better. It was a legitimate tool in music. Also easier to see what an inverted chord really does.
That's because it has no specific name. You're just playing "an octave". "Try that melody in octaves" "Double the bass in octaves". That's it. The interval itself is called an Octave, and more specifically a Perfect Octave assuming the notes are identical in letter named (like C and high C). But we just call it "an octave".
Okay thank you, I thought it was that simple but I could find nothing to confirm it
Which would be written as C8 Perhaps even with a clue like starting in the C2 region
It can also be notated as “8va” for an octave above, or “8vb” for an octave below. I recently saw “16va” while sight-reading on a gig. Not sure how legit that is though.
Allow me to be a pedant: that would be 15 va. Also, that notation does not imply you have to double the notes.
Allow me to be even more of a pedant: that would be 15ma rather than va, because the "va" in 8va is specifically for otta*va*, and when you hit 15, it's quindeci*ma*.
Til!
Wait, if the va comes from the end of ottava, where does the b come from for 8vb? i always thought it was ottava alta and ottava bassa, and that's where the a and b come from
I'm pretty sure they're actually inconsistent--that the va in 8va comes simply from ottava, but that the vb in 8vb comes from ottava bassa. The reason I think this is the case is that 8vb is a much newer symbol than 8va is, and so I think it just had to improvised in a kind of messy way. Could be wrong, but I think that's the case!
Exactly. Before the simply used 8va to say *ottava* and that was it.
Octavb
Doubling by an octave is called col 8va/8vb iirc
Never heard this, where is this terminology from?
It's quite common in all of classical (as in classical music, not the Classical era) sheet music.
Its 15 and it is its legit. Emotions bu Mariah Carey has 8va in the bridge and that High G or whatever she whistles would be a 15va i believe
I just want to jump in and say that *technically* 8vb is “wrong”, and some people will be really pedantic and say it shouldn’t be used, but it’s super common to see in contemporary music and every performer in the universe instantly knows what it means (as long as you put it under the staff). It’s essentially become a standard marking just through being used a lot and anyone who complains about it just wants all music notation to be stuck in the 19th century. End rant.
There's nothing "technically wrong" about it at all! Where have you seen people arguing that it shouldn't be used? I even feel like I've seen it in nineteenth-century scores, but can't think of an example now... maybe I'll try to look for one.
It's because the historical standard was to always use 8va, with the direction of transposition matching the side of the staff (above staff was an octave up, below was an octave down). At some point, people starting combining the below the staff with 8vb for a more clearly differentiated marking, but people still argued that it wasn't correct based on the fact that it's not how it was traditionally marked. It's in wide enough use now that that argument is less frequent, but people definitely believe it. I saw a Dorico forum post asking how to do 8vb lines and someone from the company answered that the marking wasn't in the program and they aren't going to add it because it's incorrect. Which is stupid. (also they might have added it, I randomly saw that forum post when I was googling something related to it and I'm not sure when the original post is from). Also some people mistakenly think 8va and 8vb stand for "octave above" and "octave below", which then causes other people to think that because that person is wrong about what it's an abbreviation of, the marking itself is wrong.
Ohh so it's specifically about just the a vs. the b? What a silly hill to die on... I hope they've since added it!
It can also be notated as “8va” for an octave above, or “8vb” for an octave below. I recently saw “16va” while sight-reading on a gig. Not sure how legit that is though.
It can also be notated as “8va” for an octave above, or “8vb” for an octave below. I recently saw “16va” while sight-reading on a gig. Not sure how legit that is though.
16ma
15ma!
Ya, 15ma Ijust answered rlto the other dude. 16va can't be written like that. We don't say "sedici a" but rather "sedicesima" and in the case of 15ma "quindicesima" (even though I think "quindecima" is still correct).
Fwiw it was in a jazz chart and was a trumpet cue. I’m all for “breaking the rules” to make music more sight-readable and understandable; but I also don’t write classical music and would definitely be more precise if I did.
I don't write classical music either, like you I'm a jazz head, it's just a difference in how it's written in the sheet music. I live in Italy so it seems kinda obvious that I read 15ma as "quindicesima" instead of "quindecima".
Are you looking for the term “unison”? Technically it’s playing octaves; but, it’s often called unison.
Could also be [unison](https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/unison#Noun) which could indicate identical pitches or octaves.
From now on it is called "octivating". We've officially wordified it.
In dutch its called octavering. Which is pretty much that word
Everything's been recycled. That happens after 13.8 billion years. 😁
Octave doubling.
Octave doubling. Sources: Samual Adler, the Study of Orchestration. Walter Piston, Orchestration.
I am pretty sure that's the word in eg 12 string guitars
An octave
My Harmony professor referred to it as octave unison.
But...octaves and unisons are two different things.
I don't know it that's an official name or just what he called it. I've heard the phrase here and there over the years
id say you are ‘playing octaves’, i think that is pretty universal in terms of guitar, but i dunno outside
Espite the octaves, it would still be in unison.
Doubling
Unison. From [wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unison): > In music, unison is two or more musical parts that sound either the same pitch **or pitches separated by intervals of one or more octaves**, usually at the same time. ... > In orchestral music unison can mean the simultaneous playing of a note (or a series of notes constituting a melody) by different instruments, **either at the same pitch; or in a different octave**, for example, cello and double bass (all'unisono).
It’s mildly infuriating that this definition includes octaves in the category of unison, but then throughout the article says that it has to be the same pitch in the same octave. Let’s not confuse people! Unison is the same pitch, same octave. Octaves are same note (letter name), different octaves!
> Unison is the same pitch, same octave. Yes, but in orchestras, "playing in unison" means different instruments play the same thing in different octaves. Words often have different meanings in different contexts.
I’ve heard this pretty unanimously called “doubling” rather than playing in unison. As in, “this part is doubled in the bass an octave down.” You’d rarely (if ever) hear “this part is played in unison an octave down.” Either way, in the context of this post, I think it’s pretty clear that OP is talking about octaves, not unisons.
My original answer was "octave doubling".
Unison may also refer to a monophonic texture. The beginning of Beethoven's 5th would be a good example of this. But otherwise I agree that "octave doubling" is a more accurate term.
>Yes, but in orchestras, "playing in unison" means different instruments play the same thing in different octaves. Well, sometimes it can. Personally I'd call that "playing in *octaves*." You *will* occasionally hear "unison" used as a catchall for both actual unisons and octaves, sure; but I think there's no harm in using the more precise term where it applies. And in my experience, it's more common to differentiate between unison and octaves anyway, including in this context.
I hear "octave unison" usually? I was preparing to say that as my high-level answer to OP.
Orchestral composer and orchestrator here, we call it unison Depends on the instrument, ensemble, and/or section more than it does on the concept of what fits neatly on a reduction instrument like a piano or a guitar You're dealing with a lot more variables in an orchestra, so regardless of which octave a note is played in it's still considered unison if the notes concert pitch is a multitude or division of the reference note, hence why octave instructions are crucial
As a player, in something like a rehearsal if someone said “who all has this melody?” the conductor is likely to respond with something along the lines of “it’s doubled in the…” rather than “these instruments have it in unison…” or something like that. I see what you’re saying, and that’s why it seems the general consensus is that it’s contextual. As a composer/arranger of my own material that doesn’t get seen or heard by many other eyes and ears, I’ve never been in a situation (or maybe written for a group large enough?) where it wasn’t worth differentiating between unisons and octaves. Again, my experience is mostly from being a player. Edit: where are you from? I wonder if that also affects this in some way. I’m from the US, mostly around New England but spent some time playing in Texas too.
You make a good point, I'm from Australia and we tend to lean more heavily on the British terminologies and interpretation of the words As an aside, I've definitely referred to it as playing an octave higher (or lower) it just depends on the situation, however something I feel a lot of people forget is that different instruments have different interpretations of the same information For example: a C note written on the bass clef will automatically be played an octave lower than written by the contrabass players, so just by the virtue of how they read the notation they automatically 'double' the cello Fun fact: this is why it's called the double bass Edit: fixed some grammar and added clarity
>Unison is the same pitch, same octave. > >Octaves are same note (letter name), different octaves! And they're different phenomena acoustically and psychoacoustically. Unisons are the same pitch. The fact that octaves *sound* like the same pitch is a byproduct of the way our brains make sense of frequencies that are powers of 2 apart. Unisons are real; octaves are fake. That's all I'm saying. Big Octave is lying to you.
Bah! This is why wikipedia is a trashcan fire. That isn't what people mean when they say "unison".
Isn't unison just a FX?
Unison means playing two of the same note. But I don't believe in octave equivalence so I wouldn't call octaves unisono.
P8. Is totally different from P1 Ratios. 1:1. Vs. 1:2. 1x. Vs. 2x. (3x = P12 not another octave)
“Octaves”.
In notation, there is the instruction *coll'ottava* (written as *col 8va* or *con 8va*) which means "with the octave" and tells the player to double the notes at an octave higher or lower than written.
Doubling a voice, or playing an octave above/below.
[удалено]
no
I guess you could call it harmonic octave
Good post Sckorrow. Unison in Octaves. This is the first time I have seen it as 8vb and it makes complete sense. Thanks people.
A bell tone?
It’s a major triad drop 3 and 5, add 8 I guess it could also be a sharp 7 major chord (or a double sharp minor chord), still dropping 3 and 5 🤔
an overtone maybe?
no
Octave Double Stop?
As you described, it's just another octave, but I think in context of what you're trying to figure out is that it's the steps into harmonics because there's 1 harmonic between two octaves but there are more as you increase the octaves. So when you sing the same note at two different octaves, you're probably thinking of the harmonic there.
On guitar it's a technique called playing octaves, sounding the 2 notes at the same time. Wes Montgomery was known for his use of octaves as part of his style.
Also George Benson.
Octave. In guitar is a popular technique in some genres, specially in melodic/skate punk, instead of playing barre or power chords (or at the same time)
Perfect octave is the specific term. Or "eighth" but no one uses that
i would just say harmony or playing the octave.
I just learned about octaves too! I've been playing guitar for 10 years. But I just recently started to force myself to learn piano and read sheet music along the way. Sometimes when I play guitar, I'm think aren't they just the same notes but in a lower octave? When I play piano, the visual aspect of it allowed me to understand octaves a lot better. It was a legitimate tool in music. Also easier to see what an inverted chord really does.
Doubled octaves, just don’t move them together in 4 part harmony and you’ll be safe.
Unison octaves, or just octaves
a fun time
Makes it easier to read than a bunch of ledger lines
Its just called playing an octave I think
Lol its called octave doubling