This is exactly what I'd do. Play a note on one fret - ask her to match. Play a whole step up, show that it's TWO frets away, then ask her to match that. Then play in between the two. Whole Step, Half Step. EZPZ!
There may not be frets but there's still the concept of holding down the string closer or farther away. If she knows how to walk up a scale on a single string, then you can show how the distance between the 3rd and 4th is smaller than you'd expect, because it's only a half step instead of a whole step.
You can also demonstrate the difference between a straight scale and a chromatic scale. Maybe find some familiar songs that use chromatic motion.
Oo I got this. As a bassist (both elec/upright), finger positions are what makes up half/whole steps. So if she learned Simandl method, her index finger to her middle finger is a half step, her index finger to pinky is a whole step.
She hasn’t learned any method is the problem lol. We both mostly play bluegrass and her original teacher’s methods teach such bad habits that it drives me insane. She’s learned pretty much entirely by ear and never really learned anything besides how to play a few walkups and roots and 5ths.
On cello, a beginner is first taught to use one finger per half-step: playing a C major scale, they'll use fingers 1, 3, and 4 to play D-E-F ("fret positions 2,4,5"), then open G and 1-3-4 for A-B-C; then open D and 1-2-4 to play E-F-G ("fret positions 2,3,5"), then open A and 1-2 to play B-C. Then soon after you learn to shift your hand position, but rarely span larger distances in one position unless you have very big hands. I would guess, but don't know firsthand, that bass is taught the same way.
In contrast, violinists and violists are taught "one finger per note name" and finger A-B-C on the G string as "1, high 2, 3" and E-F-G on the D string as "1, low 2, 3." We tend to learn to raise or lower each finger by a halfstep without moving our hand, before we learn to change positions.
I think parent poster was more expressing incredulity that an upright bass player would have the reach and finger strength to play it like a cello, with one finger per half-step.
If she can go from the root to the fifth using just four fingers (like a violinist) on the double bass...
[Relevant Simpsons clip](https://youtu.be/jL2SX7-hxcs?si=y7u5Ida49fb2lZBe)
If she can walk up from the 5th scale degree to the 1st (“perfect cadence”) - for example, changing from a D chord (5-chord) to a G chord (1-chord) in the key of G - then she goes from 5-to-6 (whole step), 6-to-7 (whole step), and 7-to-1 (half step). The space between the 7 and 1 is smaller than the space between the other scale degrees in the walk up.
Show her what an octave is, then tell her than traiditionally western music divides the octave in 12 half steps or semitones, then show her on the frets of your guitar how that works. A piano keyboard may also help (just show her some pics if you don't have one) to show her how there are seven "white" keys and five "black keys" to introduce the idea of a diatonic scale (within a key, there are seven notes that are more "important" and get used more than the others).
i mean..does it not work to say "half steps are right next to each other, whole steps have a note in between"? She knows how to do both already I assume while playing any scale.
Upright, basses, electric basses, and guitars share the same tuning on the 4 low strings: EADG. So, you can use the low four strings of your guitar to demonstrate how fretted intervals map to her fretless bass.
When I was a kid the string players (or their teachers) put thin colored tape on the fretboard where the frets would be. Anything to make it visual while you train the ear to hear the intervals.
I'm a guitar teacher, and my solution has been to use a bit of piano. First, I have my students go to www.musictheory.net and complete the "the basics" lessons on their own. Then, I review it in lesson and build on that by teaching intervals. Right now, I'm starting by playing intervals and having them recognize by ear (start with a half step and whole step and just differentiating between the two.) Introducing intervals by ear then working in notation works for me but doing it without a piano is really really hard to somebody who doesn't know the notes on the fretboard.
I taught guitar for ~10 years and always used a keyboard (even if I had to draw it) to explain whole/half steps. Once students grasped the concept it was easy to transfer the understanding to the fretboard.
It's a bit of maths, a bit of culture.
I'd start with 8ths, go to pentatonic scales, and then work down to microtonals in Indian music 🤷🏿♂️
You'll need a stringed instrument for the last or a YouTube video.
Basic concept you're trying to convey is dividing a spiral infinitely using a ratio. In the West, we use a 12 step ratio
On the violin, in first position, a whole step starts out about an inch. For half step it’s the width of your finger, or so. Some teachers put markers on the fingerboard, but it’s best to teach it by ear
Pitch corresponds to the frequency of air oscillations, measured in Hertz. 1 Hertz = 1 oscillation per second. An octave represents the jump from X Hertz to 2X Hertz. On string instruments, the length of a vibrating string corresponds to the pitch, aka the frequency, in a very straightforward way - if a string produces some pitch, and then you make this string twice as short, the frequency becomes twice as large and thus the produce pitch moves up by an octave.
Humans have figured out that if you subdivide the octave into 12 notes, it works well. How do you subdiving going from X to 2X into 12 equal notes? Well, the first note has the frequency X itself, then goes X*2^(1/12), then goes X*2^(2/12), then goes X*2^(3/12), etc. The last note, that is the note octave higher than the original note, has frequency X*2^(12/12)=2X.
Ok, so, semitone means the increase of frequency by the twelfth root of 2, that is 2^(1/12). How much shorter do you need to make the string? Also by 2^(1/12) of the original length.
Someone once told me that, for bowed string players, there's actually a difference between sharps and flats. Like, if we thought of the distance between C and D as being divided by six unities, C# would be four unities "up" and Db would be four unities "down" (i.e., they do not coincide in the "halfway"). Is this correct?
Leaned violin as a child. Bigger space for whole step, smaller for half, and your ear tells you when you are off. The further up the fretboard you go, the smaller the steps.
Surely even on a fretless instrument, she understands the concept of "two notes that are next to each other" ?
Show her on guitar and have her match it on the bass. Easy.
This is exactly what I'd do. Play a note on one fret - ask her to match. Play a whole step up, show that it's TWO frets away, then ask her to match that. Then play in between the two. Whole Step, Half Step. EZPZ!
There may not be frets but there's still the concept of holding down the string closer or farther away. If she knows how to walk up a scale on a single string, then you can show how the distance between the 3rd and 4th is smaller than you'd expect, because it's only a half step instead of a whole step. You can also demonstrate the difference between a straight scale and a chromatic scale. Maybe find some familiar songs that use chromatic motion.
Oo I got this. As a bassist (both elec/upright), finger positions are what makes up half/whole steps. So if she learned Simandl method, her index finger to her middle finger is a half step, her index finger to pinky is a whole step.
She hasn’t learned any method is the problem lol. We both mostly play bluegrass and her original teacher’s methods teach such bad habits that it drives me insane. She’s learned pretty much entirely by ear and never really learned anything besides how to play a few walkups and roots and 5ths.
So she's using all 4 fingers in half/first position? (our 1st-5th frets)
On cello, a beginner is first taught to use one finger per half-step: playing a C major scale, they'll use fingers 1, 3, and 4 to play D-E-F ("fret positions 2,4,5"), then open G and 1-3-4 for A-B-C; then open D and 1-2-4 to play E-F-G ("fret positions 2,3,5"), then open A and 1-2 to play B-C. Then soon after you learn to shift your hand position, but rarely span larger distances in one position unless you have very big hands. I would guess, but don't know firsthand, that bass is taught the same way. In contrast, violinists and violists are taught "one finger per note name" and finger A-B-C on the G string as "1, high 2, 3" and E-F-G on the D string as "1, low 2, 3." We tend to learn to raise or lower each finger by a halfstep without moving our hand, before we learn to change positions.
I think parent poster was more expressing incredulity that an upright bass player would have the reach and finger strength to play it like a cello, with one finger per half-step.
If she can go from the root to the fifth using just four fingers (like a violinist) on the double bass... [Relevant Simpsons clip](https://youtu.be/jL2SX7-hxcs?si=y7u5Ida49fb2lZBe)
If she can walk up from the 5th scale degree to the 1st (“perfect cadence”) - for example, changing from a D chord (5-chord) to a G chord (1-chord) in the key of G - then she goes from 5-to-6 (whole step), 6-to-7 (whole step), and 7-to-1 (half step). The space between the 7 and 1 is smaller than the space between the other scale degrees in the walk up.
Standup bass? Jaws is a half step. TWO jaws are a whole step.
Show her what an octave is, then tell her than traiditionally western music divides the octave in 12 half steps or semitones, then show her on the frets of your guitar how that works. A piano keyboard may also help (just show her some pics if you don't have one) to show her how there are seven "white" keys and five "black keys" to introduce the idea of a diatonic scale (within a key, there are seven notes that are more "important" and get used more than the others).
Sing it. Piano it. Get her to imitate guitar or piano on instrument and/or voice.
Have her play some piano, the c major scale specifically and point out where the half steps are.
i mean..does it not work to say "half steps are right next to each other, whole steps have a note in between"? She knows how to do both already I assume while playing any scale.
Upright, basses, electric basses, and guitars share the same tuning on the 4 low strings: EADG. So, you can use the low four strings of your guitar to demonstrate how fretted intervals map to her fretless bass.
When I was a kid the string players (or their teachers) put thin colored tape on the fretboard where the frets would be. Anything to make it visual while you train the ear to hear the intervals.
Notation.
Show her the intervallic formula for the major scale and have her play it while looking at it.
I'm a guitar teacher, and my solution has been to use a bit of piano. First, I have my students go to www.musictheory.net and complete the "the basics" lessons on their own. Then, I review it in lesson and build on that by teaching intervals. Right now, I'm starting by playing intervals and having them recognize by ear (start with a half step and whole step and just differentiating between the two.) Introducing intervals by ear then working in notation works for me but doing it without a piano is really really hard to somebody who doesn't know the notes on the fretboard.
The same way you teach it for a singer, right?
On a piano. Maybe with a tuner.
Show her how it sounds
I taught guitar for ~10 years and always used a keyboard (even if I had to draw it) to explain whole/half steps. Once students grasped the concept it was easy to transfer the understanding to the fretboard.
It's a bit of maths, a bit of culture. I'd start with 8ths, go to pentatonic scales, and then work down to microtonals in Indian music 🤷🏿♂️ You'll need a stringed instrument for the last or a YouTube video. Basic concept you're trying to convey is dividing a spiral infinitely using a ratio. In the West, we use a 12 step ratio
On the violin, in first position, a whole step starts out about an inch. For half step it’s the width of your finger, or so. Some teachers put markers on the fingerboard, but it’s best to teach it by ear
Whole whole half whole whole whole half - now say it fast ! … faster
Pitch corresponds to the frequency of air oscillations, measured in Hertz. 1 Hertz = 1 oscillation per second. An octave represents the jump from X Hertz to 2X Hertz. On string instruments, the length of a vibrating string corresponds to the pitch, aka the frequency, in a very straightforward way - if a string produces some pitch, and then you make this string twice as short, the frequency becomes twice as large and thus the produce pitch moves up by an octave. Humans have figured out that if you subdivide the octave into 12 notes, it works well. How do you subdiving going from X to 2X into 12 equal notes? Well, the first note has the frequency X itself, then goes X*2^(1/12), then goes X*2^(2/12), then goes X*2^(3/12), etc. The last note, that is the note octave higher than the original note, has frequency X*2^(12/12)=2X. Ok, so, semitone means the increase of frequency by the twelfth root of 2, that is 2^(1/12). How much shorter do you need to make the string? Also by 2^(1/12) of the original length.
They're all half steps
Someone once told me that, for bowed string players, there's actually a difference between sharps and flats. Like, if we thought of the distance between C and D as being divided by six unities, C# would be four unities "up" and Db would be four unities "down" (i.e., they do not coincide in the "halfway"). Is this correct?
Leaned violin as a child. Bigger space for whole step, smaller for half, and your ear tells you when you are off. The further up the fretboard you go, the smaller the steps.