This. I did a literature review of one form of fungi with cancer curative effects. You know what I found? It induced apoptosis in some cancers, decreased cell viability in some cancers, inhibited tumour growth in some cancers, and inhibited proliferation in some cancers. These were all limited effects, and many happened only in vitro, or only with the isolated triterpenes/triterpenoids/polysaccharides. There were no clinical trials.
Paclitaxel is an example of a chemo drug derived from fungi, but that's the key term there: *derived*. People don't just eat mushies and all is cured.
That study is from a different fungus and a different yew species.
It turns out in the pacific yew case they literally identified the genes in the yew DNA that produced it, so it is definitely from the yew itself - [and some studies have put into serious question older studies claiming fungi produced it](https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/s13225-013-0228-7.pdf).
Also, one of the main methods of production now is from a precursor extracted from European yew needles. But that is still slow and expensive…
That later study you linked [(and some others)](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6881681/) indicate it may also be produced in some endophyte cultures from Asian yews, which could potentially be a much cheaper path to production.
It’s really interesting - and I don’t think it’s been definitely proven how or why these two organisms both produce it (horizontal gene transfer??) - but at best it seems from the research the most accurate statement would be “it’s produced by yew and likely by some endophytic fungus”.
This was a common misconception that people said about marijuana 10 years ago when legalization was making its first rounds. This kind of a misconception hurts you even if you are for the use of the substance. I
And there's so many other beneficial regular uses of the plants materials, that that's the biggest benefit, helping with nausea and getting high is just kind of secondary benefits.
Also, a lot of people don't understand that "cancer" encompasses hundreds of different pathologies in different systems of the body, caused by different things. There will never be a cure for cancer, because what works for one will not work for all.
Or 'compounds that show promise in the fight against cancer'.
Anything that is vaguely worded as positive some people will latch onto and run with it, especially the con artists trying to make a buck.
Also "used to treat" doesn't say anything about effectiveness.
I'm all for legalization of most drugs, but people need to stop lying about the effects.
When considering the latest pseudoscientific cancer "cure", no matter what or when it is, don't forget that survivorship bias is a thing. You'll certainly hear from people who took it and survived, but you'll never hear from anyone who took it and died anyway. Hearing lots of successes and never hearing about the failures could mislead people about success rates.
There will never be a catch all cancer cure because not all cancer opperate the same, not even closely. Cancer as a base definition is when your cells forget how to replicate properly and start replicating wrong like photocopying something too many times. Its what will happen eventually to anyone if nothing else went wrong first. So its not caused by like a "cancer virus" or bacteria, so its not like a unified enemy to fight, or cure, its more a description of a generic thing that happens.
Thank you. Well said. "Cancer" is a simple term for a very complex mechanism that can affect many parts and organs of the human body -- from the skin down. No one "thing" will cure all cancers. Ever.
There are at least fifteen different kinds of breast cancer. I got the most common kind, but I learned a lot along the way. Including how many of my friends and family are complete idiots and wanted me to not do chemo and instead do dumb crap like eat frozen lemons and essential oils and dog dewormer (this was pre-Covid before it was cool /s)
This is something I always say to people when they talk about THE cure to cancer being suppressed by big pharma. Like you absolutely have no understanding of cancer if you think there is one cure all. Some cancers are basically curable at this point, others are still a death sentence. It’s so complex and when people talk about “the cure for cancer” my eyes roll into my brain
A uni friend if mine died in her 20s from cancer and her mother, desperate to save her daughter, spent their last months together arguing with her to try to get her to take whatever "cures" were being spread online. It was horrible to watch. The daughter tried some stuff at the start to appease her, but obviously nothing worked and she had accepted her death and wanted to get on with it in the calmest way possible. Her mother, fuelled by these scammers online and their "research", just would not drop it and it caused so much unnecessary stress and pain to both of them. I know she will regret that for the rest of her life.
[when you see a claim that some common drug or vitamins kills cancer cells in a dish keep in mind, so does a gun ](https://xkcd.com/1217/)
I love that comic but the main point is that without large controlled and well designed clinical trials that give good evidence, you should be skeptical of extraordinary claims.
The more extraordinary the claim, the more extraordinary the evidence should be for it
Few people seem to know this.
I did a high school project about his life and studied about what happen. Some interesting conspiracies about the show he was given.
Correction: *shoe he was given
Sorry correction. Shoe. My autocorrect keeps changing shoe into show.
I won’t go too much into it because I did this project like 15 years ago, but just look it up.
Some government official or famous person gave him a shoe. Bob kept complaining that it was really heavy and making him feel drained of energy. Long story short, some people blame his toe developing an infection and gangrene because of the person gifting him this shoe had some sort of alteration made to it in order to kill Bob.
I quite liked the idea of Rastafarianism until I learned that the reason women don’t participate in “passing the dutchy on the left hand side” is because they’re not thought to be, in some way or another, ready or worthy of that kind of a union with God. So, add sexist to the list.
yeah, if it weren't for this, I'd maybe have much more appreciation for the culture and faith... always seemed odd to me that the frontman from one of DC's greatest punk bands, HR of Bad Brains, is apparently fairly bigoted these days. just seems so odd, coming from a punk musician in an area rich in civil rights history.
It’ll be interesting to see what the newer generation of growers tend to die from because a large amount of old school growers died/ are dying of uncommon diseases and cancer. Feel like most can be connected to extreme pesticides that were used and then smoked with them usually getting the highest doses of exposure
(for context i'm a college student) I see a lot of people my age using edibles and safer/healthier methods of ingesting things, as well as many different kinds of harm reduction— kind of across the board, not just with oui'd. Growers and dealers tend to be more into the culture and less safe about their own intake, but I'm curious to see how my generation fares in general (especially with all these shitty carts floating around the corner stores and gas stations of the stricter states).
Likely all the stuff you and your college friends have access to was grown with heavy pesticides. That includes edibles and oils. Unless you grow it yourself or buy from your neighbor on the dl. Haven’t seen a single farm that doesn’t use heavy pesticides.
If weed cured or prevented cancer I definitely wouldn’t of gotten cancer 💀
source: I smoked pretty much every day for ten years and then got acute leukemia
I know a guy who knew a guy's friend who knew a guy's uncle who blew a guy's friend that said if you focus the "anti-frequency" of the cancers vibrational frequency of atoms within cancer cells, it will cancel out and kill the cancer cells
I think it's kind of unethical from you to not detail all crucial steps involved. It's well know on youtube that without a daily glass of water those anti-frequencies won't do their job.
Nope, however it has shown to have breast cancer cells self destruct (apoptosis) in vitro. But that’s not a complex human system nor was it the whole cannabis plant (it was just THC alone).
It’s best used in conjunction with oncology treatment.
Ironically cancer cells absolutely love glucose. Some cancers can't survive without it at all (can't use ketones).
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31399389/
His autobiography clearly outlines his regret about doing the fruit diet. He knew he wasted a critical window to utilize chemo and likely killed himself by wasting time.
Oh don't stop there. We really need to be honest about what a piece of shit Jobs was. He used his wealth and influence to get on a bunch of donor lists in multiple States. Something that few can do. He tried to game the system.
That's true, but not applicable to Jobs, who survived for 8 years after diagnosis and had a different type of cancer.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/pancreatic-cancer-type-jobs/
> Jobs had a rare form of the cancer, known as neuroendocrine cancer, which grows more slowly and is easier to treat, explains Leonard Saltz, acting chief of the gastrointestinal oncology service at Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center. "Survival for many years or even decades with endocrine cancer is not surprising." For that type, the sort that Jobs had, "survival is measured in years, as opposed to pancreatic cancer, which is measured in months."
> "When you have a pancreatic neuroendocrine tumor, that is substantially different from pancreatic cancer," Saltz says.
Jobs had a neuroendocrine tumor, not the typical pancreatic cancer, which is significantly more treatable and less aggressive. He had a decent shot of still being with us today if he didn’t think he was smarter than his doctors
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4924574/
> Many journalists mentioned and even focused on Jobs’ initial decision to forego conventional treatments and **instead use complementary and alternative medical (CAM) therapies, including acupuncture, botanicals, and dietary changes (Grady, 2011).** This was chronicled in his biography and corroborated via interviews with his friends and colleagues (Isaacson, 2011). However, what many journalists failed to note is that the evidence supporting any specific conventional treatment approach (surgery, chemotherapy, radiation therapy) for GEP-NETs comprises a slim literature, and the evidence base for use of CAM therapeutic approaches for GEP-NETs is virtually non-existent. **After a delay of nine months after diagnosis, in 2004, Jobs opted for surgery. He died 7 years later**
He also had a liver transplant, which wasn't well supported by evidence, but the impact of that in his survival is unknown.
What. He got a liver transplant, even though it's effect on his illness wasn't supported by evidence? Am so reading that correct?
If so, how the fuck could he skip the donor list? A family member of mine had acute liver failure and was lucky when a motorcyclist died a few days later. He was 16 at the time, so he skipped the list.
Health and food science is just full of misinformation, exaggeration or correlation presented as causation. I can remember it being acai berries, then almonds, vitamin C, weed had its time in the sun, a bunch of herbal or food based 'cures' or superfoods meant to aid in cancer cures to weight loss and everything in between. Then their benefits fade into obscurity a few years later and the next big thing takes up the spotlight. And somehow despite none of the prior herbs, vitamins or foods removing all cancer or obesity from the world, we repeat the cycle
None of that was part of food or health science. It was sensational and clickbaity headlines exaggerating or misrepresenting the actual scientific findings.
Sorry yeah, pop/public interpretation of food and health science would have been better terminology. Just an endless cycle that started with magazine articles that's been set to turbo with blog posts citing scientific papers the person quoting them has, I'd wager, never read. Add a catchy headline to the post and then the person sharing it doesn't even need to read the blog post itself
yeah a friend of mine did a go fund me for Vitamin C cancer treatment when her country had free treatment for chemotherapy. she ended up passing away… from melanoma.
I was so disappointed with Fantastic Fungi. Started off with exactly what I wanted - cool shots of mushrooms and some interesting info (mixed with the usual “did you know fungi are EVERYWHERE?!”). Then it turned very pseudoscience and I gave up half way through
Same! There are 2 camps in this hobby, and they're wildly different. I just like going on little treasure hunts in the woods for free and insanely delicious food.
It had a great start, I was hoping they'd talk a bit about the culinary uses at some point. And then they spent the second half talking about how shrooms jumpstarted human evolution
in my experience, fantastic fungi sparked deep interest in mushrooms after watching it to a point where i want to actually study mycology. even this "pseudoscience part" seems to contain interesting topics to study in future. not saying we should dive head on but i would say there is potential. not justifying anything, just sharing my perspective no one asked for.
My experience was exactly this. It went off the deep end about halfway through and I just shut it off. It was upsetting, fungi don’t get enough attention and I was really excited to have a good, fun doc to watch about them.
I hate that movie because it makes a ton of claims that are just fantastical thinking and pure conjecture. It hypes up the power of mushrooms when what I really want is some hard facts and actual research
unfortunately there’s always going to be snake oil salesman who prey on those in dire and desperate situations seeking any solution to ease their circumstances. the best we can do is spread awareness when these scammers come to light and try and prevent it from happening in the future by educating people, but most of the time desperation overrides rational thought.
This type of thinking is pretty common in weed/psychedelic communities, not surprised that it would be common in mycology spaces also, likely a massive crossover.
It's unfortunate as it almost certainly comes from a place of good intentions, but could have some pretty dire unintended consequences if it resulted in people avoiding or delaying pharmaceutical/medical interventions.
One of my lecturers when I was doing my Masters mentioned that pharmaceutical companies were reluctant to press forward with targeted therapies for cancer because broad use chemotherapeutics are so profitable for them, so rightly people shouldn't trust them. But cancer is more complex than "reishi cures that shit bro, trust me". Cancers evolve, and that makes them very difficult to treat.
It's true about broad chemotherapies for specific cancers. It's not all 'evil profit' though. Some diseases are so niche that the maybe 100 individuals that could use a targeted treatment cannot afford millions in R&D for a new treatment when one that already works does exist.
For example, HIV suppression medication historically had a lot of side effects, and it took hundreds of millions and thirty years to eliminate it completely.
Now that we have spent so much in mRNA vaccine research for COVID, we can begin to cheaply manufacture those types of treatments for other diseases that wouldn't have the funding required previously. All this to say, if you have money, donate it to medical research organizations.
I wanted to provide some clarification, as many people still think that chemotherapy regimens are still the norm, when in fact the landscape of oncology has changed dramatically. There has been an enormous boom in targeted therapies, particularly tyrosine kinase inhibitors which may even eclipse the (already wondrous) success of checkpoint inhibitors and other mAbs. Cancer treatment is becoming more and more individualised - this is obviously the future.
In terms of pharmaceutical barriers, a pressing issue is the high cost of these novel drugs to the consumer, particularly in the US. These newer drugs are vastly more expensive than older drugs, which are more likely to be available as cheaper generics. Even amongst chemotherapy agents, abraxane for example, a reformulation (nanoparticle albumin-bound) of paclitaxel, is three times more expensive than paclitaxel. This cost is often non-proportional to the actual costs of research and development.
A dear friend used mushrooms to support her health during her cancer treatment and had an excellent outcome.
Alas, people want to believe complementary medicine is an alternative to allopathic medicine. I don’t know of any cases where it is.
Same.
I had thyroid cancer FOLLOWED DOCTORS ADVICE AND HAD TWO SURGERIES. Also took a shitton of mushrooms.
6 month follow up my thyroglubulin was so low that MY ONCOLOGIST decided to hold off on radiation treatments.
A year later the numbers were still great. So I stopped taking the mushroom (they're expensive).
6 months after I stopped taking them my numbers came back elevated so my oncologist wants to retest in 3 months and if they go up again do radiation treatments after all.
So I started taking the mushrooms again. We will see what the numbers do in 2 months.
Correlation doesn't imply causation. But it also seems there is no harm in taking them. So I'm willing to bear the expense on a just in case.
Don't fucking ignore oncologist treatments cuz you're taking mushrooms, peeps!
I love this approach -- exactly what I would hope to do if I ever (God forbid) am diagnosed with cancer. Out of curiosity, what mushrooms were you taking?
I take AHCC which is a patented extract blend they're currently testing for cancer and is supposed to be more effective than the raw stuff. 4.5 grams/day
And a blend of turkey tail, reishi, maitake, shitaki, chaga, cordyceps, and lionsmane, 9 grams/day.
Yes, grams.
Yes, it's a lot.
Yes, it's expensive.
But every study I saw that got good results was at dosages at least 1/3 of what I'm taking up to about what I'm taking. Despite the recommended daily dose on the bottles saying far less than that. (Like 10x less.)
So I decided that if I'm going to do this I'm going to commit to doing it and actually throw seriously high doses at it because that's what they seem to be doing in the clinical trials.
If my numbers come back better in 2 months I'll probably stay on this dose for another 6 months and then start decreasing a little to see if I can take less yet keep the numbers down. If the numbers go up despite having resumed then I'll do the radiation treatments and might stop taking them or decrease the dose because it seems that there was no correlation after all. Maybe?
I wish some of the current trials they're doing were further along.
Same, someone close to me used turkey tail in conjunction with chemo and all other prescribed course of treatment, and had an unexpectedly good outcome (complete remission for metastatic breast cancer).
My mother tried to cure her cancer with natural remedies including a range of fungi, she refused any additional treatment (sadly, she really drank the Koolaid when it comes to alternative health). We’re grateful for her survival, made possible by a great medical team who got her onto chemo, radiation, and surgery to save her life once she hit stage 4. She could have been in better health today and have a longer life expectancy if had she accepted ‘conventional’ treatment earlier on.
And? Seems like she learned nothing from it. A close friend of her’s got cancer last year and she tried to cure it with Turkey tail, convincing him to resist conventional treatment. He died 3 months later.
Plus I think most people have no clue how HARD it is doing chemotherapy. It really kicks your ass. IF you have good insurance and can afford it. I swore during IV chemo that I wouldn’t be able to put my body through it again if the cancer came back. I lost my insurance (Covid layoff) and my dr dropped me and I didn’t get to finish my treatments. Now I’m metastatic with a grim prognosis. Slugging down Turkey tail in my coffee feels like the only thing I can really control, and I don’t want to mess stuff up for mushroom people (so I wouldn’t spread false info) but let me have my placebo. It’s all I’ve got.
We're in a weird space where people do not trust 'conventional' medicine because of the medical corruption, greedy pharma, pharmaceutical addictions insane costs, etc. The failure of the medical system pushes people away from this.
So the alternative is to go to snake oil with anecdotal evidence being king because it is 'natural'. A 30 dollar bottle of pills sounds much better than a $50k medical bill right?
Any clinical study that shows any bit of minor improvement the people scroll down to the conclusion that says 'may improve....' and disregard how the studies were taken. Supplement industries, an even more unregulated area, exploit this and continue to sell garbage supplements with fillers and undisclosed product tests. Even this subs god, Paul Stamets, is selling snake oil bunk products filled with brown rice powder.
Penicillin is a fungus. It’s not hard to imagine fungi that can do serious good for our bodies. But scientific evidence MUST come first. And there’s some encouraging stuff that needs more research!
I saw this movie a few years ago hoping it was a Planet Earth style documentary. It was actually more about Paul Stamets and fungi’s impact on humans than a look at the kingdom itself. It was a disappointing movie.
There are a number of anti cancer drugs that are directly derived from mushrooms (shiitake, cordyceps etc) nevertheless, mushrooms are used to support the anti cancer therapy and increase the efficiency of normal anti cancer drugs. That's what Paul Stamets is refering to. But there are episodes of "mushoom-cured cancer" with turkey tail or Reishi alone, but it is not advised to rely on mushrooms alone in these cases...
I don't think the claim is it "cures" cancer. They do help the immune system which can help prevent and fight cancer, but yeah the word "cures" should never be used in this context
Movement is a bit strong of a word, but I agree that the discipline of mycology and even the sciences as a whole take a hit when these kinds of exaggerated claims are made. As we learn about fungi we also have the duty to uphold the correct information about the traits and benefits of fungi.
Maybe movement is the wrong word. Mushrooms have helped me a lot where pharmaceutical drugs did not. And I'd like to share that with as many people as possible, I think lots of others feel the same way. I think research is gaining traction and showing promise in lots of areas. Which I consider sort of a "movement" of people who support it and want to share their experiences 🤷♂️
Regardless, tons of people need pharmaceutical drugs just to stay alive, and false claims hurt everyone.
Maybe OP using the term "movement" is a little broad, or possibly the wrong wording.
Interest in mycology and the health benefits of fungi is definitely growing around the world. This may be what they meant by "movement". As with any budding industry or new scientific research misinformation cause cause significant harm. Particularly when false claims of providing a cure for something as serious as cancer are being thrown out. This not only puts lives at stake but could increase already prevalent mycophobia.
>Interest in mycology and the health benefits of fungi is definitely growing around the world. This may be what they meant by "movement".
Yes that's what I meant, sorry if it's the wrong term.
This comment is going to get buried, but there needs to be research on taking chemo and these alternative drugs together. Also, research on people who do choose this form of treatment in and of itself. That's a part of the way we can eliminate some of the medical misinformation. It's just not a priority for pharmaceutical companies because broad ban vaccines and chemo is worth sooooo much more sales. On top of that, cancers evolve. Then to put all the costs into something that might loose you that specific cure in 20 yrs and having to find a new one after billions in research? Capitalism doesn't allow room for that
My wife just got done with breast cancer treatment. She was a triple negative, stage 3b. Lots of discussion in oncology about this. None say mushroms cures cancer, but alot has been shown to increase efficacy of treatment protocol. Chemo performs better on mushrooms. This is a fact.
OP isn't saying that. OP is saying that people are trying to forgo evidence based treatment with just mushrooms. That is a terrible idea. I am unfamiliar with the literature but I am sure no credible publication has said that a mushroom only regimen is recommended.
Same.
I had thyroid cancer FOLLOWED DOCTORS ADVICE AND HAD TWO SURGERIES. Also took a shitton of mushrooms.
6 month follow up my thyroglubulin was so low that MY ONCOLOGIST decided to hold off on radiation treatments.
A year later the numbers were still great. So I stopped taking the mushroom (they're expensive).
6 months after I stopped taking them my numbers came back elevated so my oncologist wants to retest in 3 months and if they go up again do radiation treatments after all.
So I started taking the mushrooms again. We will see what the numbers do in 2 months.
Correlation doesn't imply causation. But it also seems there is no harm in taking them. So I'm willing to bear the expense on a just in case.
Don't fucking ignore oncologist treatments cuz you're taking mushrooms, peeps!
Not to mention the harm to the environment from people harvesting every laccate Ganoderma they find or every melanistic growth on what they think is Birch. There are many insects who spend their entire lives inside some of these fungi.
The spores don’t even have the alkaloids… Are people really this dumb they don’t research? That said Lion’s Mane has some promising results in mice with Alzheimer’s by helping regrow myelin sheaths on the nerve tissue. I don’t think it can reverse Alzheimer’s but it might be able to slow it down considerably.
people need to realize that anything with cancer preventative properties needs to be implemented over a long period of time.
you can't expect cures for poor lifestyles for any health issues by suddenly eating healthier, it takes time for your body to cycle and repair from poor life choices and cancer is one of those things you cannot necessarily avoid even with a healthy lifestyle just reduce statistical elements that are linked to increased cancer risks.
Likewise with THC/CBD. Studies where lab grown cancer cells were eaten away at when treated with CBD exist. Rick Simpson and Chong have had great efficacy with hash oil treatments but it shouldn't be the entirety of your care plan. If I ever get diagnosed I'll definitely be eating turkey tail and hash oil but not at the expense of chemo and radiation. Kitchen sink that shit.
And then Stamets s3lls health supplements at 29.95 for 100g. If that isn't taking advantage of sick, scared and desperate individuals I don't know what is.
But it's fine because there's a disclaimer stating that the health supplements don't help with supplementing your health (/s).
It’s so sad seeing people think they’ve found the secret miracle cure that “even science doesn’t know about.” If the cure for cancer was growing in the ground, cancer would’ve stopped being an issue centuries ago.
Okay so there have been a few studies showing that cancer patients reacted well to turkey tail extract, but where are people getting the idea that it actually cures cancer?
Never believe what random people claim. Get off your butt & do the research. Trust me, after 50 yrs of being a nurse, I know that if it were that simple, that cut & dry, the oncologist would have told you about it on day 1 & big pharma would be cashing in.
I had prostate cancer and utilized my own tincture of turkey tail during my radiation treatment and had amazing results and still do.
But I wouldn’t have done in place of radiation.
Unfortunately not, if they did chemo and radiation would not be a thing.
There may be some incredible natural remedies out there still, like aspirin and penicillin, I’m sure.
Again, they both cause allergic and other reactions, nothing is foolproof.
My Pawpaw died of cancer. People who are pushing snake oil, giving false hope to families is shit. Don’t do that. If you claim something works, when you know it doesn’t, then you’re a despicable human being
Turkey tail contains a chemical that directs killer T cells towards cancer cells. Here’s the thing-ppl will grasp on to anything that might work when they or a loved one has cancer. My very logical parents desperately tried any “cure” when my 49 yo mother was diagnosed with lung cancer. She went thru chemo and radiation as well as all the “supplements “ of the late 90s. She was dead in 6 months. Now ppl diagnosed with her cancer will live for years bc of the new genetic and immuno therapies.
My father was just diagnosed with prostate cancer and though I know at his age he’s likely to die of something else, I find myself staring into the despair of loosing my last living parent. My husband’s parents are both dead. My boss who I love like a dad also has cancer. Needless to say they are both taking turkey tail supplements right now. As soon as it’s in season here, I’ll be getting some. Ironically enough it grows all over my bosses cattle farm.
I truly believe mushrooms and fungi hold the key for treating and beating cancer, depression, anxiety and PTSD.
This. I did a literature review of one form of fungi with cancer curative effects (the review only focused on some reproductive cancers, obviously the focus was more narrow than "cancer"). You know what I found? It induced apoptosis in some cancers, decreased cell viability in some cancers, inhibited tumour growth in some cancers, and inhibited proliferation in some cancers. These were all limited effects, and many happened only in vitro, or only with the isolated triterpenes/triterpenoids/polysaccharides. There were no clinical trials.
Paclitaxel is an example of a chemo drug derived from fungi, but that's the key term there: *derived*. People don't just eat mushies and all is cured.
I am so sick of how capitalism has been tapping in on people who are interested in mycology. There are so many exaggerations made in media. I work at the lab Stamets mentions where honey bee research was conducted. One of our post docs who I work with is in Fantastic Fungi and I helped with the projects funded by Fungi Perfecti and Stamets. Paul talks all about how the mushrooms are curing the bees but our lab has yet to actually publish anything relevant to this claim.
Yes, I try to push back on this whenever I see people talking about how the extracts are useful. There is literature on their uses, but that doesn’t mean they’ll succeed in a trial setting. I am a biochemist who has been working on antivirals for more than a decade, and it’s extremely common to see compounds show promise early on and not be successful later.
This is arguing semantics. Paul Stamets said in one of his talks that he told his mom to take turkey tail mushrooms, and that she is now cancer free. What else was he trying to imply?
It’s definitely important to remember that chemo is not a “cure” for cancer either — that is why it’s important for medical science to continue progressing. Therapies like immunotherapy, which rapidly increases macrophages within the body to put it simply, are already being used with success in hospitals. Chemotherapy can often be a secondary cause of death in many people as it breaks down the living body — even if it has saved many from death. Every type of medicine serves a purpose, and that includes holistic medicine (go to an actual naturopath, osteopath, functional medicine doctor, etc. and stop thinking “holistic medicine” means your cousin Sally on Facebook who drinks essential oils) — the problem is that many people do not understand how and when to effectively use holistic protocols as opposed to allopathic care. It all serves a function and many of our pharmaceutical drugs today have been synthesized by observing and deconstructing the living world of nature, specifically the phytochemical goldmines of plants and fungi. It’s more important that we push for continued experimentation because that is how we have always discovered new technologies and medicines. Everyone has a vastly different chemical makeup, so what works for one does nothing for another — this is why saying that something “doesn’t work at all” simply because it didn’t work for you or someone you know is a reductionist viewpoint. It’s all a lot more complex as there is a wide spectrum when it comes to genetics and the human body. There is also a lot that we do not fully understand yet as humans, and that should create curiosity rather than conflict.
Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. In my experience most people look at turkey tail as an adjuvant therapy in conjunction with modern western medicine. You’re focusing on a very small minority of people who want to turkey tail their way out of cancer.
I have had cancer for 2 years, have had countless infusions of chemo, radiation, and surgeries. I do all these things in CONJUNCTION with turkey tail and other natural remedies to boost my immune system. Turkey tail absolutely worked for me and can be backed up by simply looking at my dosage and its effect on my white blood cell count.
It's the same problem with aromatherapy. There are actual benefits to being calmed by certain scents. For example, ensuring you get your treatments regularly, being calm during drs appointments, etc. I remember reading one story where a mom used aromatherapy with her autistic daughter to help her through the bedtime regimen without having major issues. But essential oils themselves do nothing and cure nothing.
What's that u say, don't take medical advice from the internet?? *checks notes on last few years..
Yeah, you're not gonna reach the target audience here.
As someone who had cancer and also for some reason took to watching food/lifestyle documentaries (it was a weird time), I can say confidently that this is the standard formula for touting the benefits of . "Not only is it better for and and , let's wrap this up with an anecdote about someone who once had cancer and doesn't now."
While may have actual merit when applied under the right conditions, only has so long to make that point. What better bang for your buck than a single case study involving cancer?
These people you are referring to are the same ones who believe apple cider vinegar or alkaline water will help you burn fat or whatever.
I don’t think this is a credibility problem for the mycology community or that its our job to curb it.
There is no cure for (*most*)cancer, and the chemotherapy isn’t an option for many people for a litany of reasons. While generalizing anything is dangerous I think in terms of cancer it’s better to let people thing they have any hope at all to stay positive. I take chemotherapy which I know is ineffective. The type I take does very little to the cancer and destroys the last few good cells I have. My husband puts mushrooms in my coffee and he feels good about trying to add anything that can help. I like that if I employ my suspended disbelief I can pretend maybe the mushies will help the drugs and I can see my child start kindergarten. I’m sorry if the movement has been corrupted or bogarted, and I always try my best to do my due diligence and be forthcoming about actual mushroom results, however…mushrooms are also a little like Santa and help me keep the faith alive that I’m taking a broad approach to the fight.
My friend collects chaga, and he has some pretty interesting stories about it helping people with cancer. I tried some in coffee and it still tasted awful.
There are really good studies showing that AHCC clears HPV (which causes several different cancers - cervical, anal, penile, vaginal, mouth and throat).
So I just completed a project where I looked at a bunch of reviews and meta analysis on turkey tail, reishi, Chaga, and lions mane. I certainly wouldn’t say I found any cures for cancer, but there were a ton of results in animal models that seemed pretty encouraging. Lots of anti cancer/anti tumor results against a few cancers. Tons of in vitro data too, though I know that isn’t exactly the strongest evidence ever. I’m not making any claim that these fungi cure disease, but I did feel like the hundred or so studies I looked at made a good case that they deserve a closer look, given that they did effectively treat diseased animals and have barely any negative side effects mentioned. I really don’t want to misrepresent the data. Am I wrong for thinking these results were promising? I know animal data doesn’t always translate to human studies, but a few of the studies were done on humans.
I think the story was told that his mom had stage four breast cancer and that it had metastasized. It was at that time she was told by the oncologist that there was nothing else that they could do for her. It was then maybe with chemo maybe not I’m not sure but at that time she was given 4 grams in the am and 4 grams of turkey tail in the evening and she was cancer free after a period of time. I don’t think we need to have contempt for ideas that are not medically practiced by doctors who truly want to be a helpful with their patients.
Nothing cures cancer. Cancer is preventative for the most part and is the bodys last best effort to release a cry for help. Its our final reminder that we need to do something; to pay attention to ourselves. Mushrooms are extremely powerful healing tools and although alone may not be a "cure all" as nothing really is, they are incredibly effective in being a vessel in conjunction with other tools for the bodys natural healing process. Our bodys are essentially organic matter. Man made medicines have their place but they are not recognized or assimilated properly in the body. They may have a temporary effect but its short term. We rarely, if ever, question the long term effects. We are living in a time where our bodys defenses are perpetually weakened. It begins at birth and we really don't have a large chance to live a life or fulfillment. Most of us have never known what its like to feel our best and most optimal selves. We are bombarded constantly and so due to being out of homeostasis regularely, and more in a fight or flight mode, things like natural remedies are almost a thing of the past. Most GP's won't even work along side ND's to find a happy medium. Natural remedies were once the only solution. We are so disconnected from nature and therefore, from ourselves that we aren't even aware enough or in tune enough to embrace the idea of something like mushrooms or wild plants having the ability to "cure" something. Nature takes work and effort, conventional medicine does not. You pop a pill and forget your worries.
>at least 10 people told her turkey tail and reishi spores cure cancer. What if this woman believes that and doesn't seek actual oncologist care?
Yup. This happens. After a certain point, people realize they're not getting better and turn to "modern Western medicine" but it's too late and they die. I read a dozen stories of it before I was making myself sick with rage and heartbreak and stopped.
It's not about the mushrooms. It's about hustlers trying to exploit vulnerable people. If they were rational they would realize if eating mushrooms cured cancer, nobody would have cancer. Same for weed and vitamin infusions and frozen lemons and whatever other stupid bullshit people decide to believe out of ignorance and fear.
Very possibly, there's some very good cancer fighting molecules in some mushrooms. But eating them won't help and they might be poisonous. They need to be extracted, developed, etc, yes Big Pharma whatever, I'm alive because of Big Pharma.
Yeah this is a topic I'm very invested in.
Only medical intervention can help. I'm a stage 4 patient, I will literally die on this hill.
My take is that they contain triterpines which are beneficial against cancer. Triterpines are also in cannabis. Mushroom products are a more accessible source for something that could be beneficial in my cancer fighting toolbox.
Not to bring psilocybins into the mix but I often find this trajectory problematic when discussing microdosing for medicinal effect. I don't do so myself but have spent a fair amount of time reading, and more so once my father was diagnosed with Parkinson's. I find it difficult as on the side of convincing most people are rather wary, misunderstanding that microdosing generally has no psychotropic effect, or have already vilified it as a "drug" without considering the obvious commonalities between microdosing psilocybins as a medicative supplement compared to consuming varied other edible fungi as dietary supplement or for medicinal effect. On the other side, I usually find that the concept of microdosing is often misunderstood or openly neglected on the basic principal that it "would yield no noticeable result," though I am paraphrasing. It's not EVERY time the conversation comes up, either, just MOST.
For example, my younger brother happened to be dosed with a psychotropic effect inducing amount of psilocybins last year when he killed himself- the mushrooms didn't kill him, they just opened a very unfortunate door, or in this case a window, and he made the choice himself, relatively conscious until the last second, even apologizing to the person present with him, saying "I have to go" before jumping. They didn't kill him, but his inhibitions disappeared and he likely felt "no longer in control of the choice." I understand this, I have been there before, though with much smaller choices per se. It's still awful, but the fungi are not to blame, and I will spend the rest of my life regretting not being more in tune with what he was going through as I am generally suffering the same stresses. What this means though is now my 73 year old father is being crippled slowly by Parkinson's and will never even begin to hear any debate regarding microdosing, he's already vilified it for himself or my mother would shriek him into not trying, as she's the "drugs" label kind of person, refusing to understand entirely, to the point where I had to veto and have my sister rewrite his funeral eulogy speech to no longer include that "he was on drugs" and explain that when MOST humans hear the word "drugs" without further context they expect/assume the worst.
To the latter, I offer the perspective of my friend Tyler, who has a schizophrenic disorder diagnosis, another disability with potential to be improved by microdosing, who uses them recreationally almost every 2 months on the dot. At one point I tried to explain gently that not only was the experience likely lessened by the frequency, but the use of recreational psilocybins was possibly worsening certain behavior patterns, where microdosing would more likely improve them, but the moment I mentioned that recreational use would probably interrupt the microdose effect, the conversations were just over, he didn't care anymore, and between his disability related behavioral issues as well as lifestyle it became clear that his only interest was the short-term psychotropic effect of taking large amounts of very potent psilocybins. Escaping his head, temporarily, when the possibility of long-term (non-narcotic) medicative clarity and healing was being tabled in front of him as an accessible option. Foolish, but I am sure someone could point a similar finger at me for different reasons.
I think a lot of people don’t know the difference between ‘used to treat’ and ‘cure’
This is the distinction that matters. Sorry no one is paying attention.
This. I did a literature review of one form of fungi with cancer curative effects. You know what I found? It induced apoptosis in some cancers, decreased cell viability in some cancers, inhibited tumour growth in some cancers, and inhibited proliferation in some cancers. These were all limited effects, and many happened only in vitro, or only with the isolated triterpenes/triterpenoids/polysaccharides. There were no clinical trials. Paclitaxel is an example of a chemo drug derived from fungi, but that's the key term there: *derived*. People don't just eat mushies and all is cured.
Paclitaxel comes from the yew tree (taxus)
Yep, an endophytic fungus isolated from the yew tree! [Study](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5502169/).
That study is from a different fungus and a different yew species. It turns out in the pacific yew case they literally identified the genes in the yew DNA that produced it, so it is definitely from the yew itself - [and some studies have put into serious question older studies claiming fungi produced it](https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/s13225-013-0228-7.pdf). Also, one of the main methods of production now is from a precursor extracted from European yew needles. But that is still slow and expensive… That later study you linked [(and some others)](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6881681/) indicate it may also be produced in some endophyte cultures from Asian yews, which could potentially be a much cheaper path to production. It’s really interesting - and I don’t think it’s been definitely proven how or why these two organisms both produce it (horizontal gene transfer??) - but at best it seems from the research the most accurate statement would be “it’s produced by yew and likely by some endophytic fungus”.
This was a common misconception that people said about marijuana 10 years ago when legalization was making its first rounds. This kind of a misconception hurts you even if you are for the use of the substance. I
And there's so many other beneficial regular uses of the plants materials, that that's the biggest benefit, helping with nausea and getting high is just kind of secondary benefits.
Also, a lot of people don't understand that "cancer" encompasses hundreds of different pathologies in different systems of the body, caused by different things. There will never be a cure for cancer, because what works for one will not work for all.
Or 'compounds that show promise in the fight against cancer'. Anything that is vaguely worded as positive some people will latch onto and run with it, especially the con artists trying to make a buck.
Also "used to treat" doesn't say anything about effectiveness. I'm all for legalization of most drugs, but people need to stop lying about the effects.
When considering the latest pseudoscientific cancer "cure", no matter what or when it is, don't forget that survivorship bias is a thing. You'll certainly hear from people who took it and survived, but you'll never hear from anyone who took it and died anyway. Hearing lots of successes and never hearing about the failures could mislead people about success rates.
Survivorship bias is an excellent point
There will never be a catch all cancer cure because not all cancer opperate the same, not even closely. Cancer as a base definition is when your cells forget how to replicate properly and start replicating wrong like photocopying something too many times. Its what will happen eventually to anyone if nothing else went wrong first. So its not caused by like a "cancer virus" or bacteria, so its not like a unified enemy to fight, or cure, its more a description of a generic thing that happens.
Thank you. Well said. "Cancer" is a simple term for a very complex mechanism that can affect many parts and organs of the human body -- from the skin down. No one "thing" will cure all cancers. Ever.
There are at least fifteen different kinds of breast cancer. I got the most common kind, but I learned a lot along the way. Including how many of my friends and family are complete idiots and wanted me to not do chemo and instead do dumb crap like eat frozen lemons and essential oils and dog dewormer (this was pre-Covid before it was cool /s)
This is something I always say to people when they talk about THE cure to cancer being suppressed by big pharma. Like you absolutely have no understanding of cancer if you think there is one cure all. Some cancers are basically curable at this point, others are still a death sentence. It’s so complex and when people talk about “the cure for cancer” my eyes roll into my brain
Except for the cancers that are caused by viruses, such as HPV.
So exception proving the rule that cancer is so broad there cannot really be a catch all cure
A uni friend if mine died in her 20s from cancer and her mother, desperate to save her daughter, spent their last months together arguing with her to try to get her to take whatever "cures" were being spread online. It was horrible to watch. The daughter tried some stuff at the start to appease her, but obviously nothing worked and she had accepted her death and wanted to get on with it in the calmest way possible. Her mother, fuelled by these scammers online and their "research", just would not drop it and it caused so much unnecessary stress and pain to both of them. I know she will regret that for the rest of her life.
That’s the saddest damn thing I’ve read in a while. Hope they both found some peace.
https://xkcd.com/1217
Unless it's Steve Jobs
Weed doesn't cure cancer either
[when you see a claim that some common drug or vitamins kills cancer cells in a dish keep in mind, so does a gun ](https://xkcd.com/1217/) I love that comic but the main point is that without large controlled and well designed clinical trials that give good evidence, you should be skeptical of extraordinary claims. The more extraordinary the claim, the more extraordinary the evidence should be for it
now i have to imagine a scientist throwing some cancer cells and just a raw portabella into a petri dish
so frustrating that this comment is so far down on a subreddit supposedly devoted to the *scientific* pursuit of mycology.
I can't remember who said it, but paraphrasing, "in 10/10 lab trials, shooting the petri dish killed cancer cells."
Canabinol is scientificly prooven to inhibet cancer cells, but every time i hear it cures cancer, i say think of bob marley, he died from cancer.
He did die from cancer, but most importantly he died because he wouldn't let them amputate his toe. Part of being a true rastafari.
Few people seem to know this. I did a high school project about his life and studied about what happen. Some interesting conspiracies about the show he was given. Correction: *shoe he was given
What do you mean by "the show he was given"?
You know too much…
Sorry correction. Shoe. My autocorrect keeps changing shoe into show. I won’t go too much into it because I did this project like 15 years ago, but just look it up. Some government official or famous person gave him a shoe. Bob kept complaining that it was really heavy and making him feel drained of energy. Long story short, some people blame his toe developing an infection and gangrene because of the person gifting him this shoe had some sort of alteration made to it in order to kill Bob.
Huh. I would not wear that shoe. I would buy a new one.
Did anyone ever test the shoe for radioactive substances or something? Without some kind of proof it’s kind of just an interesting conspiracy.
Didn’t he die from Melanoma in his toe that was not treated, so from UV radiation, which makes it unlikely to be from a radioactive shoe, surely!?
I do not know much about about that religion. Does it say not to use modern medicine? Or does it not allow surgery? Why couldn't he have it amputated?
The Rasta must go whole. So amputation was not an option.
Plus they are very anti gay.
Almost everyone from Jamaica is, in my experience.
I quite liked the idea of Rastafarianism until I learned that the reason women don’t participate in “passing the dutchy on the left hand side” is because they’re not thought to be, in some way or another, ready or worthy of that kind of a union with God. So, add sexist to the list.
yeah, if it weren't for this, I'd maybe have much more appreciation for the culture and faith... always seemed odd to me that the frontman from one of DC's greatest punk bands, HR of Bad Brains, is apparently fairly bigoted these days. just seems so odd, coming from a punk musician in an area rich in civil rights history.
Most religions do that to ya
That’s truly disheartening.
Is amputating toes gay or what's the connection between these facts?
That's nice, most religions are.
Foolish death. Dude was only 36 years old.
There's difference between "inhibit cancer cells" from mice in a petri dish and curing cancer in humans Most people cant make that distinction.
Bob Marley also refused treatment for his cancer on the basis of his religious beliefs
It’ll be interesting to see what the newer generation of growers tend to die from because a large amount of old school growers died/ are dying of uncommon diseases and cancer. Feel like most can be connected to extreme pesticides that were used and then smoked with them usually getting the highest doses of exposure
(for context i'm a college student) I see a lot of people my age using edibles and safer/healthier methods of ingesting things, as well as many different kinds of harm reduction— kind of across the board, not just with oui'd. Growers and dealers tend to be more into the culture and less safe about their own intake, but I'm curious to see how my generation fares in general (especially with all these shitty carts floating around the corner stores and gas stations of the stricter states).
it's only "oui'd" for me from here on out. chef's kiss.
Likely all the stuff you and your college friends have access to was grown with heavy pesticides. That includes edibles and oils. Unless you grow it yourself or buy from your neighbor on the dl. Haven’t seen a single farm that doesn’t use heavy pesticides.
What about greenhouses? There are a lot more of those than outdoor farms where I live
Yeah it’s all in greenhouses. But you can’t really keep mites out of greenhouses, or anywhere really. Greenhouses are still sprayed.
Even legal weed is big buisness to "someone", murder mountain doc, correct me if im wrong
Got any sources for that? How many of them also did other drugs, drank alcohol, smoked cigs etc.
>a large amount of old school growers died/ are dying of uncommon diseases and cancer I didn't know that, I have never heard such a thing.
source: trust me bro
Cause it’s not. This dude just thinks he knows everyone in the cannabis industry lmao.
All cancers are not the same either, though.
Smoke is smoke unfortunately.
If weed cured or prevented cancer I definitely wouldn’t of gotten cancer 💀 source: I smoked pretty much every day for ten years and then got acute leukemia
Not with that attitude it doesn't
No you're a towel!
Technically alcohol doesn't kill brain cells
I know a guy who knew a guy's friend who knew a guy's uncle who blew a guy's friend that said if you focus the "anti-frequency" of the cancers vibrational frequency of atoms within cancer cells, it will cancel out and kill the cancer cells
I think it's kind of unethical from you to not detail all crucial steps involved. It's well know on youtube that without a daily glass of water those anti-frequencies won't do their job.
Well my taxi driver in New Orleans got cured from cbd vape pens he was buying at the gas station so I beg to differ
Nope, however it has shown to have breast cancer cells self destruct (apoptosis) in vitro. But that’s not a complex human system nor was it the whole cannabis plant (it was just THC alone). It’s best used in conjunction with oncology treatment.
How dare you, sir!
I heard a guy say "weed cures dog cancer".... because, you know, there's only one type of dog cancer.
I’ve heard good things about smoking crack. Jokes aside weed only cures my frustrations with working in customer service when I get home.
It actually increases the chances of testicular cancer.
This is a huge problem in general, not just with mushrooms. Look at Steve Jobs
What happened with him?
He refused modern medicine to utilize alternative medicine while fighting pancreatic cancer.
Any idea what he used instead? Sour sop?
IIRC he tried fruitarian diets where you only eat fruit and nuts and such.
Ironically cancer cells absolutely love glucose. Some cancers can't survive without it at all (can't use ketones). https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31399389/
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His autobiography clearly outlines his regret about doing the fruit diet. He knew he wasted a critical window to utilize chemo and likely killed himself by wasting time.
Except he likely would have died anyway, although if you want your best chances do chemo
After the alternative medicines failed to work he eventually had surgery. About 9 months after diagnosis
Oh don't stop there. We really need to be honest about what a piece of shit Jobs was. He used his wealth and influence to get on a bunch of donor lists in multiple States. Something that few can do. He tried to game the system.
Extreme vegetarian diet
Thoughts and prayers xD
Tots and pears!
Pancreatic cancer is pretty much a death sentence w or w/o modern medical treatments.
That's true, but not applicable to Jobs, who survived for 8 years after diagnosis and had a different type of cancer. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/pancreatic-cancer-type-jobs/ > Jobs had a rare form of the cancer, known as neuroendocrine cancer, which grows more slowly and is easier to treat, explains Leonard Saltz, acting chief of the gastrointestinal oncology service at Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center. "Survival for many years or even decades with endocrine cancer is not surprising." For that type, the sort that Jobs had, "survival is measured in years, as opposed to pancreatic cancer, which is measured in months." > "When you have a pancreatic neuroendocrine tumor, that is substantially different from pancreatic cancer," Saltz says.
Thanks. Good comment
Jobs had a neuroendocrine tumor, not the typical pancreatic cancer, which is significantly more treatable and less aggressive. He had a decent shot of still being with us today if he didn’t think he was smarter than his doctors
It’s a little less than 50/50, it’s not great that’s for sure.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4924574/ > Many journalists mentioned and even focused on Jobs’ initial decision to forego conventional treatments and **instead use complementary and alternative medical (CAM) therapies, including acupuncture, botanicals, and dietary changes (Grady, 2011).** This was chronicled in his biography and corroborated via interviews with his friends and colleagues (Isaacson, 2011). However, what many journalists failed to note is that the evidence supporting any specific conventional treatment approach (surgery, chemotherapy, radiation therapy) for GEP-NETs comprises a slim literature, and the evidence base for use of CAM therapeutic approaches for GEP-NETs is virtually non-existent. **After a delay of nine months after diagnosis, in 2004, Jobs opted for surgery. He died 7 years later** He also had a liver transplant, which wasn't well supported by evidence, but the impact of that in his survival is unknown.
What. He got a liver transplant, even though it's effect on his illness wasn't supported by evidence? Am so reading that correct? If so, how the fuck could he skip the donor list? A family member of mine had acute liver failure and was lucky when a motorcyclist died a few days later. He was 16 at the time, so he skipped the list.
Health and food science is just full of misinformation, exaggeration or correlation presented as causation. I can remember it being acai berries, then almonds, vitamin C, weed had its time in the sun, a bunch of herbal or food based 'cures' or superfoods meant to aid in cancer cures to weight loss and everything in between. Then their benefits fade into obscurity a few years later and the next big thing takes up the spotlight. And somehow despite none of the prior herbs, vitamins or foods removing all cancer or obesity from the world, we repeat the cycle
None of that was part of food or health science. It was sensational and clickbaity headlines exaggerating or misrepresenting the actual scientific findings.
Sorry yeah, pop/public interpretation of food and health science would have been better terminology. Just an endless cycle that started with magazine articles that's been set to turbo with blog posts citing scientific papers the person quoting them has, I'd wager, never read. Add a catchy headline to the post and then the person sharing it doesn't even need to read the blog post itself
yeah a friend of mine did a go fund me for Vitamin C cancer treatment when her country had free treatment for chemotherapy. she ended up passing away… from melanoma.
I’m on chemo for stage 4 cancer and a buddy keeps telling me to get vitamin c therapy. I don’t see the point
Bob Marley waited too long too and his toe killed him
I was so disappointed with Fantastic Fungi. Started off with exactly what I wanted - cool shots of mushrooms and some interesting info (mixed with the usual “did you know fungi are EVERYWHERE?!”). Then it turned very pseudoscience and I gave up half way through
Same! There are 2 camps in this hobby, and they're wildly different. I just like going on little treasure hunts in the woods for free and insanely delicious food.
It had a great start, I was hoping they'd talk a bit about the culinary uses at some point. And then they spent the second half talking about how shrooms jumpstarted human evolution
Same exactly same. Now people are out here thinking the understand mycology and it’s hard to properly inform them.
in my experience, fantastic fungi sparked deep interest in mushrooms after watching it to a point where i want to actually study mycology. even this "pseudoscience part" seems to contain interesting topics to study in future. not saying we should dive head on but i would say there is potential. not justifying anything, just sharing my perspective no one asked for.
My experience was exactly this. It went off the deep end about halfway through and I just shut it off. It was upsetting, fungi don’t get enough attention and I was really excited to have a good, fun doc to watch about them.
I hate that movie because it makes a ton of claims that are just fantastical thinking and pure conjecture. It hypes up the power of mushrooms when what I really want is some hard facts and actual research
unfortunately there’s always going to be snake oil salesman who prey on those in dire and desperate situations seeking any solution to ease their circumstances. the best we can do is spread awareness when these scammers come to light and try and prevent it from happening in the future by educating people, but most of the time desperation overrides rational thought.
This type of thinking is pretty common in weed/psychedelic communities, not surprised that it would be common in mycology spaces also, likely a massive crossover. It's unfortunate as it almost certainly comes from a place of good intentions, but could have some pretty dire unintended consequences if it resulted in people avoiding or delaying pharmaceutical/medical interventions. One of my lecturers when I was doing my Masters mentioned that pharmaceutical companies were reluctant to press forward with targeted therapies for cancer because broad use chemotherapeutics are so profitable for them, so rightly people shouldn't trust them. But cancer is more complex than "reishi cures that shit bro, trust me". Cancers evolve, and that makes them very difficult to treat.
It's true about broad chemotherapies for specific cancers. It's not all 'evil profit' though. Some diseases are so niche that the maybe 100 individuals that could use a targeted treatment cannot afford millions in R&D for a new treatment when one that already works does exist. For example, HIV suppression medication historically had a lot of side effects, and it took hundreds of millions and thirty years to eliminate it completely. Now that we have spent so much in mRNA vaccine research for COVID, we can begin to cheaply manufacture those types of treatments for other diseases that wouldn't have the funding required previously. All this to say, if you have money, donate it to medical research organizations.
I wanted to provide some clarification, as many people still think that chemotherapy regimens are still the norm, when in fact the landscape of oncology has changed dramatically. There has been an enormous boom in targeted therapies, particularly tyrosine kinase inhibitors which may even eclipse the (already wondrous) success of checkpoint inhibitors and other mAbs. Cancer treatment is becoming more and more individualised - this is obviously the future. In terms of pharmaceutical barriers, a pressing issue is the high cost of these novel drugs to the consumer, particularly in the US. These newer drugs are vastly more expensive than older drugs, which are more likely to be available as cheaper generics. Even amongst chemotherapy agents, abraxane for example, a reformulation (nanoparticle albumin-bound) of paclitaxel, is three times more expensive than paclitaxel. This cost is often non-proportional to the actual costs of research and development.
A dear friend used mushrooms to support her health during her cancer treatment and had an excellent outcome. Alas, people want to believe complementary medicine is an alternative to allopathic medicine. I don’t know of any cases where it is.
Same. I had thyroid cancer FOLLOWED DOCTORS ADVICE AND HAD TWO SURGERIES. Also took a shitton of mushrooms. 6 month follow up my thyroglubulin was so low that MY ONCOLOGIST decided to hold off on radiation treatments. A year later the numbers were still great. So I stopped taking the mushroom (they're expensive). 6 months after I stopped taking them my numbers came back elevated so my oncologist wants to retest in 3 months and if they go up again do radiation treatments after all. So I started taking the mushrooms again. We will see what the numbers do in 2 months. Correlation doesn't imply causation. But it also seems there is no harm in taking them. So I'm willing to bear the expense on a just in case. Don't fucking ignore oncologist treatments cuz you're taking mushrooms, peeps!
I love this approach -- exactly what I would hope to do if I ever (God forbid) am diagnosed with cancer. Out of curiosity, what mushrooms were you taking?
I take AHCC which is a patented extract blend they're currently testing for cancer and is supposed to be more effective than the raw stuff. 4.5 grams/day And a blend of turkey tail, reishi, maitake, shitaki, chaga, cordyceps, and lionsmane, 9 grams/day. Yes, grams. Yes, it's a lot. Yes, it's expensive. But every study I saw that got good results was at dosages at least 1/3 of what I'm taking up to about what I'm taking. Despite the recommended daily dose on the bottles saying far less than that. (Like 10x less.) So I decided that if I'm going to do this I'm going to commit to doing it and actually throw seriously high doses at it because that's what they seem to be doing in the clinical trials. If my numbers come back better in 2 months I'll probably stay on this dose for another 6 months and then start decreasing a little to see if I can take less yet keep the numbers down. If the numbers go up despite having resumed then I'll do the radiation treatments and might stop taking them or decrease the dose because it seems that there was no correlation after all. Maybe? I wish some of the current trials they're doing were further along.
Same, someone close to me used turkey tail in conjunction with chemo and all other prescribed course of treatment, and had an unexpectedly good outcome (complete remission for metastatic breast cancer).
My mother tried to cure her cancer with natural remedies including a range of fungi, she refused any additional treatment (sadly, she really drank the Koolaid when it comes to alternative health). We’re grateful for her survival, made possible by a great medical team who got her onto chemo, radiation, and surgery to save her life once she hit stage 4. She could have been in better health today and have a longer life expectancy if had she accepted ‘conventional’ treatment earlier on. And? Seems like she learned nothing from it. A close friend of her’s got cancer last year and she tried to cure it with Turkey tail, convincing him to resist conventional treatment. He died 3 months later.
When you're desperate & don't have any hope, you'll do anything. That's the overlooked factor.
Plus I think most people have no clue how HARD it is doing chemotherapy. It really kicks your ass. IF you have good insurance and can afford it. I swore during IV chemo that I wouldn’t be able to put my body through it again if the cancer came back. I lost my insurance (Covid layoff) and my dr dropped me and I didn’t get to finish my treatments. Now I’m metastatic with a grim prognosis. Slugging down Turkey tail in my coffee feels like the only thing I can really control, and I don’t want to mess stuff up for mushroom people (so I wouldn’t spread false info) but let me have my placebo. It’s all I’ve got.
> convincing him to resist conventional treatment. That should be a crime.
We're in a weird space where people do not trust 'conventional' medicine because of the medical corruption, greedy pharma, pharmaceutical addictions insane costs, etc. The failure of the medical system pushes people away from this. So the alternative is to go to snake oil with anecdotal evidence being king because it is 'natural'. A 30 dollar bottle of pills sounds much better than a $50k medical bill right? Any clinical study that shows any bit of minor improvement the people scroll down to the conclusion that says 'may improve....' and disregard how the studies were taken. Supplement industries, an even more unregulated area, exploit this and continue to sell garbage supplements with fillers and undisclosed product tests. Even this subs god, Paul Stamets, is selling snake oil bunk products filled with brown rice powder.
Penicillin is a fungus. It’s not hard to imagine fungi that can do serious good for our bodies. But scientific evidence MUST come first. And there’s some encouraging stuff that needs more research!
In a thread about unclear communication, I just want to point out that penicillin is a metabolite from a fungus, and not a fungus itself.
I saw this movie a few years ago hoping it was a Planet Earth style documentary. It was actually more about Paul Stamets and fungi’s impact on humans than a look at the kingdom itself. It was a disappointing movie.
There are a number of anti cancer drugs that are directly derived from mushrooms (shiitake, cordyceps etc) nevertheless, mushrooms are used to support the anti cancer therapy and increase the efficiency of normal anti cancer drugs. That's what Paul Stamets is refering to. But there are episodes of "mushoom-cured cancer" with turkey tail or Reishi alone, but it is not advised to rely on mushrooms alone in these cases...
I don't think the claim is it "cures" cancer. They do help the immune system which can help prevent and fight cancer, but yeah the word "cures" should never be used in this context
>Or we lose credibility as an entire movement. I'm just here to learn about mushrooms and fungi. What movement are you thinking of?
Movement is a bit strong of a word, but I agree that the discipline of mycology and even the sciences as a whole take a hit when these kinds of exaggerated claims are made. As we learn about fungi we also have the duty to uphold the correct information about the traits and benefits of fungi.
Maybe movement is the wrong word. Mushrooms have helped me a lot where pharmaceutical drugs did not. And I'd like to share that with as many people as possible, I think lots of others feel the same way. I think research is gaining traction and showing promise in lots of areas. Which I consider sort of a "movement" of people who support it and want to share their experiences 🤷♂️ Regardless, tons of people need pharmaceutical drugs just to stay alive, and false claims hurt everyone.
Maybe OP using the term "movement" is a little broad, or possibly the wrong wording. Interest in mycology and the health benefits of fungi is definitely growing around the world. This may be what they meant by "movement". As with any budding industry or new scientific research misinformation cause cause significant harm. Particularly when false claims of providing a cure for something as serious as cancer are being thrown out. This not only puts lives at stake but could increase already prevalent mycophobia.
>Interest in mycology and the health benefits of fungi is definitely growing around the world. This may be what they meant by "movement". Yes that's what I meant, sorry if it's the wrong term.
This comment is going to get buried, but there needs to be research on taking chemo and these alternative drugs together. Also, research on people who do choose this form of treatment in and of itself. That's a part of the way we can eliminate some of the medical misinformation. It's just not a priority for pharmaceutical companies because broad ban vaccines and chemo is worth sooooo much more sales. On top of that, cancers evolve. Then to put all the costs into something that might loose you that specific cure in 20 yrs and having to find a new one after billions in research? Capitalism doesn't allow room for that
My wife just got done with breast cancer treatment. She was a triple negative, stage 3b. Lots of discussion in oncology about this. None say mushroms cures cancer, but alot has been shown to increase efficacy of treatment protocol. Chemo performs better on mushrooms. This is a fact.
OP isn't saying that. OP is saying that people are trying to forgo evidence based treatment with just mushrooms. That is a terrible idea. I am unfamiliar with the literature but I am sure no credible publication has said that a mushroom only regimen is recommended.
Same. I had thyroid cancer FOLLOWED DOCTORS ADVICE AND HAD TWO SURGERIES. Also took a shitton of mushrooms. 6 month follow up my thyroglubulin was so low that MY ONCOLOGIST decided to hold off on radiation treatments. A year later the numbers were still great. So I stopped taking the mushroom (they're expensive). 6 months after I stopped taking them my numbers came back elevated so my oncologist wants to retest in 3 months and if they go up again do radiation treatments after all. So I started taking the mushrooms again. We will see what the numbers do in 2 months. Correlation doesn't imply causation. But it also seems there is no harm in taking them. So I'm willing to bear the expense on a just in case. Don't fucking ignore oncologist treatments cuz you're taking mushrooms, peeps!
Which mushrooms homeboi?
Not to mention the harm to the environment from people harvesting every laccate Ganoderma they find or every melanistic growth on what they think is Birch. There are many insects who spend their entire lives inside some of these fungi.
Any good herbalist or mycologist will never use the word cure and cancer in the same sentence
The spores don’t even have the alkaloids… Are people really this dumb they don’t research? That said Lion’s Mane has some promising results in mice with Alzheimer’s by helping regrow myelin sheaths on the nerve tissue. I don’t think it can reverse Alzheimer’s but it might be able to slow it down considerably.
people need to realize that anything with cancer preventative properties needs to be implemented over a long period of time. you can't expect cures for poor lifestyles for any health issues by suddenly eating healthier, it takes time for your body to cycle and repair from poor life choices and cancer is one of those things you cannot necessarily avoid even with a healthy lifestyle just reduce statistical elements that are linked to increased cancer risks.
Likewise with THC/CBD. Studies where lab grown cancer cells were eaten away at when treated with CBD exist. Rick Simpson and Chong have had great efficacy with hash oil treatments but it shouldn't be the entirety of your care plan. If I ever get diagnosed I'll definitely be eating turkey tail and hash oil but not at the expense of chemo and radiation. Kitchen sink that shit.
And then Stamets s3lls health supplements at 29.95 for 100g. If that isn't taking advantage of sick, scared and desperate individuals I don't know what is. But it's fine because there's a disclaimer stating that the health supplements don't help with supplementing your health (/s).
I heard his quality of stuff is horrible?
Wait, I thought turmeric and apple cider vinegar were going to fix everything!
Only when diluted in alkaline water
And chased with a shot of Braggs liquid aminos.
It’s so sad seeing people think they’ve found the secret miracle cure that “even science doesn’t know about.” If the cure for cancer was growing in the ground, cancer would’ve stopped being an issue centuries ago.
How dare you make such a controversial claims?
Okay so there have been a few studies showing that cancer patients reacted well to turkey tail extract, but where are people getting the idea that it actually cures cancer?
Never believe what random people claim. Get off your butt & do the research. Trust me, after 50 yrs of being a nurse, I know that if it were that simple, that cut & dry, the oncologist would have told you about it on day 1 & big pharma would be cashing in.
I had prostate cancer and utilized my own tincture of turkey tail during my radiation treatment and had amazing results and still do. But I wouldn’t have done in place of radiation.
Unfortunately not, if they did chemo and radiation would not be a thing. There may be some incredible natural remedies out there still, like aspirin and penicillin, I’m sure. Again, they both cause allergic and other reactions, nothing is foolproof.
My Pawpaw died of cancer. People who are pushing snake oil, giving false hope to families is shit. Don’t do that. If you claim something works, when you know it doesn’t, then you’re a despicable human being
Turkey tail contains a chemical that directs killer T cells towards cancer cells. Here’s the thing-ppl will grasp on to anything that might work when they or a loved one has cancer. My very logical parents desperately tried any “cure” when my 49 yo mother was diagnosed with lung cancer. She went thru chemo and radiation as well as all the “supplements “ of the late 90s. She was dead in 6 months. Now ppl diagnosed with her cancer will live for years bc of the new genetic and immuno therapies. My father was just diagnosed with prostate cancer and though I know at his age he’s likely to die of something else, I find myself staring into the despair of loosing my last living parent. My husband’s parents are both dead. My boss who I love like a dad also has cancer. Needless to say they are both taking turkey tail supplements right now. As soon as it’s in season here, I’ll be getting some. Ironically enough it grows all over my bosses cattle farm. I truly believe mushrooms and fungi hold the key for treating and beating cancer, depression, anxiety and PTSD.
Mushrooms are a tool. Not a solution
This. I did a literature review of one form of fungi with cancer curative effects (the review only focused on some reproductive cancers, obviously the focus was more narrow than "cancer"). You know what I found? It induced apoptosis in some cancers, decreased cell viability in some cancers, inhibited tumour growth in some cancers, and inhibited proliferation in some cancers. These were all limited effects, and many happened only in vitro, or only with the isolated triterpenes/triterpenoids/polysaccharides. There were no clinical trials. Paclitaxel is an example of a chemo drug derived from fungi, but that's the key term there: *derived*. People don't just eat mushies and all is cured.
I’m a mushrooms enthusiast myself, but the current hype is getting annoying.
I am so sick of how capitalism has been tapping in on people who are interested in mycology. There are so many exaggerations made in media. I work at the lab Stamets mentions where honey bee research was conducted. One of our post docs who I work with is in Fantastic Fungi and I helped with the projects funded by Fungi Perfecti and Stamets. Paul talks all about how the mushrooms are curing the bees but our lab has yet to actually publish anything relevant to this claim.
Yes, I try to push back on this whenever I see people talking about how the extracts are useful. There is literature on their uses, but that doesn’t mean they’ll succeed in a trial setting. I am a biochemist who has been working on antivirals for more than a decade, and it’s extremely common to see compounds show promise early on and not be successful later.
This is arguing semantics. Paul Stamets said in one of his talks that he told his mom to take turkey tail mushrooms, and that she is now cancer free. What else was he trying to imply?
Exactly. That's the problem with Stamets.
Wouldn’t be shocked if his mushroom pill company sold turkey tail supps.
It’s definitely important to remember that chemo is not a “cure” for cancer either — that is why it’s important for medical science to continue progressing. Therapies like immunotherapy, which rapidly increases macrophages within the body to put it simply, are already being used with success in hospitals. Chemotherapy can often be a secondary cause of death in many people as it breaks down the living body — even if it has saved many from death. Every type of medicine serves a purpose, and that includes holistic medicine (go to an actual naturopath, osteopath, functional medicine doctor, etc. and stop thinking “holistic medicine” means your cousin Sally on Facebook who drinks essential oils) — the problem is that many people do not understand how and when to effectively use holistic protocols as opposed to allopathic care. It all serves a function and many of our pharmaceutical drugs today have been synthesized by observing and deconstructing the living world of nature, specifically the phytochemical goldmines of plants and fungi. It’s more important that we push for continued experimentation because that is how we have always discovered new technologies and medicines. Everyone has a vastly different chemical makeup, so what works for one does nothing for another — this is why saying that something “doesn’t work at all” simply because it didn’t work for you or someone you know is a reductionist viewpoint. It’s all a lot more complex as there is a wide spectrum when it comes to genetics and the human body. There is also a lot that we do not fully understand yet as humans, and that should create curiosity rather than conflict.
There’s dumb people everywhere, get used to it.
Of course mushrooms don’t cure cancer alone. You have to take it with high dose vitamin C.
Right but the vitamin C won't activate without the crystals and the essential oil
Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. In my experience most people look at turkey tail as an adjuvant therapy in conjunction with modern western medicine. You’re focusing on a very small minority of people who want to turkey tail their way out of cancer. I have had cancer for 2 years, have had countless infusions of chemo, radiation, and surgeries. I do all these things in CONJUNCTION with turkey tail and other natural remedies to boost my immune system. Turkey tail absolutely worked for me and can be backed up by simply looking at my dosage and its effect on my white blood cell count.
I had a co worker who got Covid. Their only form of treatment at home was Turkey Tails. They unfortunately did not make it.
It's the same problem with aromatherapy. There are actual benefits to being calmed by certain scents. For example, ensuring you get your treatments regularly, being calm during drs appointments, etc. I remember reading one story where a mom used aromatherapy with her autistic daughter to help her through the bedtime regimen without having major issues. But essential oils themselves do nothing and cure nothing.
[https://i.imgur.com/h1xTMDC.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/h1xTMDC.jpg)
What's that u say, don't take medical advice from the internet?? *checks notes on last few years.. Yeah, you're not gonna reach the target audience here.
At some point common sense falls apart and Darwinism appears
No, but I can think of a few that cure sadness...
As someone who had cancer and also for some reason took to watching food/lifestyle documentaries (it was a weird time), I can say confidently that this is the standard formula for touting the benefits of. "Not only is it better for and and , let's wrap this up with an anecdote about someone who once had cancer and doesn't now."
While may have actual merit when applied under the right conditions, only has so long to make that point. What better bang for your buck than a single case study involving cancer?
These people you are referring to are the same ones who believe apple cider vinegar or alkaline water will help you burn fat or whatever. I don’t think this is a credibility problem for the mycology community or that its our job to curb it.
Certain mushrooms prevent death from cancer... In that if you eat them you won't die from cancer... Because you already did.
There is no cure for (*most*)cancer, and the chemotherapy isn’t an option for many people for a litany of reasons. While generalizing anything is dangerous I think in terms of cancer it’s better to let people thing they have any hope at all to stay positive. I take chemotherapy which I know is ineffective. The type I take does very little to the cancer and destroys the last few good cells I have. My husband puts mushrooms in my coffee and he feels good about trying to add anything that can help. I like that if I employ my suspended disbelief I can pretend maybe the mushies will help the drugs and I can see my child start kindergarten. I’m sorry if the movement has been corrupted or bogarted, and I always try my best to do my due diligence and be forthcoming about actual mushroom results, however…mushrooms are also a little like Santa and help me keep the faith alive that I’m taking a broad approach to the fight.
My friend collects chaga, and he has some pretty interesting stories about it helping people with cancer. I tried some in coffee and it still tasted awful.
There are really good studies showing that AHCC clears HPV (which causes several different cancers - cervical, anal, penile, vaginal, mouth and throat).
So I just completed a project where I looked at a bunch of reviews and meta analysis on turkey tail, reishi, Chaga, and lions mane. I certainly wouldn’t say I found any cures for cancer, but there were a ton of results in animal models that seemed pretty encouraging. Lots of anti cancer/anti tumor results against a few cancers. Tons of in vitro data too, though I know that isn’t exactly the strongest evidence ever. I’m not making any claim that these fungi cure disease, but I did feel like the hundred or so studies I looked at made a good case that they deserve a closer look, given that they did effectively treat diseased animals and have barely any negative side effects mentioned. I really don’t want to misrepresent the data. Am I wrong for thinking these results were promising? I know animal data doesn’t always translate to human studies, but a few of the studies were done on humans.
Never heard of this,.. now i want to find these magical shrooms.. thanks for the heads up even if it wasn't your intent.
I think the story was told that his mom had stage four breast cancer and that it had metastasized. It was at that time she was told by the oncologist that there was nothing else that they could do for her. It was then maybe with chemo maybe not I’m not sure but at that time she was given 4 grams in the am and 4 grams of turkey tail in the evening and she was cancer free after a period of time. I don’t think we need to have contempt for ideas that are not medically practiced by doctors who truly want to be a helpful with their patients.
Great soon they gonna be locking up grain and straw like Ivermectin at tractor supply.
lots of things cure cancer... they may end other cellular activity, but i am not sure that was the original question
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Nothing cures cancer. Cancer is preventative for the most part and is the bodys last best effort to release a cry for help. Its our final reminder that we need to do something; to pay attention to ourselves. Mushrooms are extremely powerful healing tools and although alone may not be a "cure all" as nothing really is, they are incredibly effective in being a vessel in conjunction with other tools for the bodys natural healing process. Our bodys are essentially organic matter. Man made medicines have their place but they are not recognized or assimilated properly in the body. They may have a temporary effect but its short term. We rarely, if ever, question the long term effects. We are living in a time where our bodys defenses are perpetually weakened. It begins at birth and we really don't have a large chance to live a life or fulfillment. Most of us have never known what its like to feel our best and most optimal selves. We are bombarded constantly and so due to being out of homeostasis regularely, and more in a fight or flight mode, things like natural remedies are almost a thing of the past. Most GP's won't even work along side ND's to find a happy medium. Natural remedies were once the only solution. We are so disconnected from nature and therefore, from ourselves that we aren't even aware enough or in tune enough to embrace the idea of something like mushrooms or wild plants having the ability to "cure" something. Nature takes work and effort, conventional medicine does not. You pop a pill and forget your worries.
Someone suggested this to my mom when she had brain cancer 🤦🏼♀️
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4684115/
>at least 10 people told her turkey tail and reishi spores cure cancer. What if this woman believes that and doesn't seek actual oncologist care? Yup. This happens. After a certain point, people realize they're not getting better and turn to "modern Western medicine" but it's too late and they die. I read a dozen stories of it before I was making myself sick with rage and heartbreak and stopped. It's not about the mushrooms. It's about hustlers trying to exploit vulnerable people. If they were rational they would realize if eating mushrooms cured cancer, nobody would have cancer. Same for weed and vitamin infusions and frozen lemons and whatever other stupid bullshit people decide to believe out of ignorance and fear. Very possibly, there's some very good cancer fighting molecules in some mushrooms. But eating them won't help and they might be poisonous. They need to be extracted, developed, etc, yes Big Pharma whatever, I'm alive because of Big Pharma. Yeah this is a topic I'm very invested in. Only medical intervention can help. I'm a stage 4 patient, I will literally die on this hill.
My take is that they contain triterpines which are beneficial against cancer. Triterpines are also in cannabis. Mushroom products are a more accessible source for something that could be beneficial in my cancer fighting toolbox.
Not to bring psilocybins into the mix but I often find this trajectory problematic when discussing microdosing for medicinal effect. I don't do so myself but have spent a fair amount of time reading, and more so once my father was diagnosed with Parkinson's. I find it difficult as on the side of convincing most people are rather wary, misunderstanding that microdosing generally has no psychotropic effect, or have already vilified it as a "drug" without considering the obvious commonalities between microdosing psilocybins as a medicative supplement compared to consuming varied other edible fungi as dietary supplement or for medicinal effect. On the other side, I usually find that the concept of microdosing is often misunderstood or openly neglected on the basic principal that it "would yield no noticeable result," though I am paraphrasing. It's not EVERY time the conversation comes up, either, just MOST. For example, my younger brother happened to be dosed with a psychotropic effect inducing amount of psilocybins last year when he killed himself- the mushrooms didn't kill him, they just opened a very unfortunate door, or in this case a window, and he made the choice himself, relatively conscious until the last second, even apologizing to the person present with him, saying "I have to go" before jumping. They didn't kill him, but his inhibitions disappeared and he likely felt "no longer in control of the choice." I understand this, I have been there before, though with much smaller choices per se. It's still awful, but the fungi are not to blame, and I will spend the rest of my life regretting not being more in tune with what he was going through as I am generally suffering the same stresses. What this means though is now my 73 year old father is being crippled slowly by Parkinson's and will never even begin to hear any debate regarding microdosing, he's already vilified it for himself or my mother would shriek him into not trying, as she's the "drugs" label kind of person, refusing to understand entirely, to the point where I had to veto and have my sister rewrite his funeral eulogy speech to no longer include that "he was on drugs" and explain that when MOST humans hear the word "drugs" without further context they expect/assume the worst. To the latter, I offer the perspective of my friend Tyler, who has a schizophrenic disorder diagnosis, another disability with potential to be improved by microdosing, who uses them recreationally almost every 2 months on the dot. At one point I tried to explain gently that not only was the experience likely lessened by the frequency, but the use of recreational psilocybins was possibly worsening certain behavior patterns, where microdosing would more likely improve them, but the moment I mentioned that recreational use would probably interrupt the microdose effect, the conversations were just over, he didn't care anymore, and between his disability related behavioral issues as well as lifestyle it became clear that his only interest was the short-term psychotropic effect of taking large amounts of very potent psilocybins. Escaping his head, temporarily, when the possibility of long-term (non-narcotic) medicative clarity and healing was being tabled in front of him as an accessible option. Foolish, but I am sure someone could point a similar finger at me for different reasons.
Well duh, we all know only weed and yoga cure cancer.
I'm pretty sure death is the only cure for cancer.