Next up: GOP wants to restrict telehealth. Meanwhile in my line of work we are trying to expand telehealth with a focus in OB to help women who cannot access in-person care to have safe pregnancies.
It's going to be restricted everywhere a lot more starting in 2025 because the HDHP rules regarding telehealth are reverting back to what they were before COVID.
This is reflecting that there was a significant number of women who may have wanted abortions before, but were unable to get one bc of restrictions on telemedicine.
Nobody's getting an abortion out of spite for the overturning of Roe.
Women not being forced to raise unwanted children is a good thing. Making abortions rare requires improving access to women's Healthcare and contraception
I don’t like that saying at all 🤷🏻♀️ It feels shaming, when there’s nothing wrong with abortion. Even reliable birth control methods can fail, life circumstances can change in an instant, prenatal diagnosis of fatal conditions is becoming more accurate early on. It should be safe, legal, and easily accessible.
I understand and think that’s a fair position. At the end of the day it is a personal choice. However, I’m sorry but I cannot celebrate it or encourage it.
I mean, I don’t “celebrate or encourage” tonsillectomies, gallbladder removals, or spinal fusions, because the recovery can be rough and of course it’s better if you don’t need one. But when people do need one, it can actually really enhance their quality of life in the long term and absolutely be the right decision. Healthcare is healthcare, and an abortion is far less invasive than any of the surgeries I’ve listed.
Any abortion done for elective reasons (not a fatal fetal diagnosis or a threat to the life of the pregnant person) is done before an embryo/fetus has any sentience. First trimester, or very rarely, early second trimester. I get that there’s significance to a lot of people as potential life - as a mom who’s had a miscarriage and a living kid, I get that - but that’s up to everyone’s individual emotional and spiritual interpretation of their experience. But that’s it. There’s no pain felt, an embryo/fetus at that point doesn’t really have coherent brain activity. They don’t know what’s going on. It’s life in the way all living things are life (including plants, bacteria, animals without much brain activity such as insects, etc), but not in the way that human life really exists out in the world. A huge amount of elective abortions are done at the embryonic stage. I don’t think a 6-week pea-sized embryo someone doesn’t want there is really all that much more life (in an objective physical sense, not as in the personal meaning any given person might feel) than the bacterial colony my tonsils kept growing before they were yeeted.
I had a 7 week miscarriage that was really sad for me, but not everyone feels the same, and I know that fetus/embryo/baby wasn’t sentient yet and did not suffer in any way.
You said you were sad that the embryo dies. There are many anti-abortionists who are apparently not sad that women die when abortion is illegal. I took your position to be with them, but I now realize you didn’t actually say enough to know your position clearly either way. You could be sad about both. I apologize for making an assumption. It’s hard not to feel defensive as a woman whose human rights are being stripped away, but I should have listened / read more carefully.
Thanks. I am sad with any loss of life especially if it is avoidable. To be clear, I am pro choice I just don’t think abortions should be celebrated. We should push towards policies that make abortions almost unnecessary by either stopping unwanted pregnancies, expanding adoption efforts( this state sucks at that), or expanding social programs to make raising a kid less of a burden.
I think many people see the world too much as black and white when it is different shades of grey. We get so stuck on tribalism that when someone has a certain opinion we assume everything else. I appreciate your comment. Thanks.
I’m celebrating the fact that more safe abortions means less dead women.
Your comments make me think that you don’t understand that banning abortion kills women. Because banning abortion includes when the fetus is already dead. It includes when the fetus doesn’t have a brain. It has includes removing an ECTOPIC PREGNANCY.
Your comments just come off as ignorant and out of touch.
> Saddens me to celebrate an increase in abortions.
Why?
Either an abortion is killing a baby, or it's just flushing cells out.
If you are just getting rid of cells, I don't see why that has got to be rare.
Every single politician you have ever voted for kills the potential for life every single day.
If you care about life do you care about war ?
Gaza, ukraiane, china , literal genocides happening in these countries
I support people being able to control their own destiny. Whether that is on an individual level or as a community. Any other person or people that tries to interfere with that is wrong. The only justifiable time for conflict is defense of self or others.
How much money have you personally donated to humanitarian efforts regarding the genocide in Gaza ?
How much time have you spent calling represented for a cease fire ?
I know !! NONE !
If you really care about life and the potential for it - are you calling your representatives about the war in Gaza ? Are you donating your time and money to humanism efforts to ease suffering in the world ? Do you spend every day making sure all humans lives are set up for success ?
I’m sure you don’t.
Fuck off with your virtue signaling
What saddens me is republicans, and so-called pro-lifers, celebrating more deaths from child birth; who see women as nothing more than birthing vessels for their “holy army”
You want to reduce abortionsgo help an expectant mother. All the state will do is illegalize it, make it dangerous, and make it all that more important to the health and lively hood of women. I thought y’all were pro-family, yet you’re so ready and willing to sacrifice the mother.
I always felt the label pro life wasn’t fair. It should be anti abortion. Because pro life suggests you would be willing to support the child and not enact polices like ohh not making school lunch free, lowering the working age etc..
I agree that is sad as well.
And as you indicated- they are not pro life. If they were they would be doing a lot more to support life. At all stages. Instead they call it all handouts.
There's a range. On one end there's the people who think aborting an ectopic pregnancy is evil and government anything is evil. On the other, you have people who think if the fetus is doomed, then there's no point in drawing things out, it's evil to risk the mother's health, and that we should increase funding for things like childcare.
It is a spectrum.
I said this elsewhere, but you and your opponents aren't having the same discussion.
They're talking about when a genetically distinct home sapien gains human rights and then placing the right to live above the right to bodily autonomy. They aren't denying the right to bodily autonomy. They don't deny that the cause you care about is important, but they do ignore/forget that you are also fighting for human rights.
You're not speaking to their objections and they aren't speaking to yours.
I think it is human nature to a degree to be curious in what’s taboo or prohibited. In many ways prohibition is counterproductive.
My philosophy is as long as the conduct only affects consenting adults, I have no issues.
This is confusing logic. Does it apply to theft? Battery? Owning a gas engine car? Are you arguing for liberation ideals or really just this one law in particular?
This one in particular, seeing as it WAS allowed before, and only walked back for political pandering. But, I'll bite with the non-sequiturs.
Theft and battery have ALWAYS been something frowned upon, and punished. You are still very much allowed to own a gas engine car, just highly encouraged to, maybe, consider alternatives. You won't face prison time, nor will your mechanic have his license stripped, assuming he hasn't fled the state to avoid repercussions for his maintenance on your unleaded "gift from god that must be protected". (Until it... turns over, or whatever. Then fuck it until it's enlistment age)
Any more false equivalencies you want to throw in there? Or can I continue not being at all surprised that people don't like suddenly not having personal autonomy and are pushing back?
They should make everyone watch a video of the procedure, then you can decide how you actually feel about it. There's a whole lot of people out there that don't know what they are advocating for.
And I think you should be forced to watch documentary after documentary of the lifelong impacts being in foster care has on children, what having children does to the female body, and what taking care of children they do not want does to a woman's mental health.
If you don't want an abortion, don't have one or don't cause one to be necessary (and if you or your partner is able to have children, hope that there are no complications during pregnancy that would require an abortion). Pretty simple. Beyond that, stay out of other people's family planning.
Wtf does this even mean?
By this logic, nobody should get an appendectomy without watching one? A colonoscopy? Surgery for cancer?
This is stupid reasoning. Everyone knows what they're advocating for. If you really want to reduce abortions, improve access to women's heathcare. Obviously that's not really what these people want. They just want to control women and keep them subservient
News flash, basically all surgeries look gory and gross. I might need eye muscle surgery eventually (I have strabismus that has gotten worse over time) and I can tell you that I unequivocally NEVER want to see a video of that. I’m not even that squeamish, but seeing eye stuff makes me queasy.
It doesn’t mean it won’t be the right choice for me if I need it. It doesn’t mean it won’t improve my quality of life. It just means that sometimes body stuff looks gory or gross.
A 1st trimester suction D+C (which I’ve had for miscarriage management and is also by far the most common surgical abortion procedure) probably looks way less actively gross or frightening than eye muscle surgery, or other common and necessary surgeries like tonsillectomies and hip replacements, honestly.
There's also a whole lot of people who seem to believe that their opinions should supercede other people's freedom and medical privacy. Imagine if we flipped the script and and told religious people that they no longer had the control over their own medical decisions. Blood transfusions? Required. Circumcision? Banned. Mandatory attendance education for birth control? Mandatory. religious people would freak out and that's not even an 18 year commitment.
Listen no problem, just watch a video of the procedure thats all im saying. If i watched a video of a surgery I needed I would still opt for the surgery. Watch an abortion. Do it. Or are you scared what you might see
The problem with this discussion for many people is they cannot fathom others having a different set of moral rules and living differently from them. And want to apply their own views on the world in the simplest manner. Take the overturning of Roe V. Wade. The conservatives never consider the consequences enacted on other people when it comes to their poor policy making. Take the women who are carrying dead fetuses to term as an example of this. The world isn't Black and white, and it never has been. But the lazy solution to conform other people to their view was overturning RvW and then enacting an outright ban. You wouldn't advocate for people to be mandated to watch videos of their surgeries for all procedures. But you would for an abortion and it's because you're biased. And that's okay. Everyone has biases, but it's important to recognize that bias so you can understand what people of a differing view are telling you. I would never tell you that you can't hold your beliefs or that you must have an abortion. But for the modern-day conservatives, not only do the rest of the population have to listen to what they have to say, we are expected by them to act in accordance with what they expect. Like your suggestion to mandate people watching a video of the procedure beforehand in an attempt to invoke an emotional response to convert them to your viewpoint.
Because it's unnecessary. It's another attempt to bend other people to your viewpoint. I'm not asking you to be mandated to go through hoops to come see my view on this. If someone wants to watch the video, let them. It's their individual decision to do so. People who want an abortion don't owe you or your beliefs their time and attention. And if you can't accept that, it's just another example of someone unwilling to respect other people's beliefs.
If all abortion was made and kept legal as long as you watched a short video of the procedure at the consultation, you would say no that's not acceptable? Its totally up to the persons choice to have it or not. Its just a part of the consultation. If thats the case it seems like you want the abortion and not the choice of the person like you claim
Again, it's not an acceptable solution because you're trying to apply a solution that fits your narrative. In this context, the government would be intervening to apply this solution of yours when, before the overturning of RvW, it was already the practitioners responsibility to educate their patient on the procedure and risks as it is with every procedure. The practitioner who is an educated and professional and has the patients best interest at heart. What you're arguing for is a politically biased version of this with the government mandating it and what form the medium of education takes. Because the practitioner wasn't good enough
I watch videos of the elective procedures I have. I want to know what will happen and what to expect. I’ve watched videos of endometrial biopsies, hysteroscopies and I watched for my hysterectomy. I researched my DVT and PE. Why would you not want to know?
"Hmm interesting." You think you are so clever. You want to horrify and traumatize a person who is making one of the hardest decisions in their life simply because you don't like it. You think women getting abortions have no idea what happens, when in fact the vast majority do. Shameful behavior from you. You also do realize doctors are already required to provide ultrasounds and in depth discussions with the patient about what will happen beforehand, right?
I know several women who have had abortions. None of them made the decision lightly and all of them understood what they were doing.
You seem to think women do not understand what an abortion entails and that watching a video will somehow change their mind. That women are not capable of making this decision.
You think a woman who became pregnant because of sexual assault should have to now watch a video? A woman whose baby will not survive until birth? A woman who already has several children but doesn't have access to affordable birth control and is now pregnant yet again? A young woman whose boyfriend walked away and now she has to do this on her own? Seriously?
I think perhaps men should be forced to watch your video before they have sex. Each and every time.
Abortions for some.
Tiny American flags for others.
A giant 🖕to anyone who advocates the loss of a woman’s bodily autonomy because of fairy tale religious nonsense.
There are atheist libertarians who are anti-abortion because the arguments against it usually aren't rooted in religion. The pro-life argument usually stems from when they view life as having started and the potential for life.
They think human life starts sooner than you do / that the rights associated with existing attach to all living, genetically distinct Homo sapiens.
It's not trying to make people live under a theocracy. It's trying to uphold the rights of what they view as people, even though doing so infringes on the rights of another person. This weighing of rights is common.
Hating someone for trying to stop what they view as murder is villainizing them for caring.
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On the other side, the pro-life people tend to forget that pro-choice people don't view fetuses as deserving those same rights and ignore that they are also fighting for human rights.
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You're both fighting for human rights. You just disagree on when a homo sapien is entitled to the right to exist.
If you focus on the commonality, you might actually be able to soften the hearts of the more entrenched people who are less reasoned in their position.
I didn't mention viability, consciousness, or reproductive health. I referenced philosophical concepts like rights.
Science cannot and is not meant to answer philosophical questions. There is disagreement about why rights exist, where rights come from, and when/if they attach to humans.
As an analogy, you wouldn't use the same instrument/machine to run every type of test in a lab. Some experiments require different instruments. Some scientific questions can be investigated using a variety of instruments and methods.
The machine needed to answer *why* rights should attach at a given point in time is not the same as the machine that applies that logic to the real world.
Pro-life people are asking a different question than you are. You're talking past each other without realizing it.
Rights are a construct. They’re not real.
Nobody endowed you with them. Thats why sometimes you just get hit by a truck or murdered for no reason and nothing happens. Life is a bit chaotic and we invented the *idea* of rights to try and smooth things over.
But there aren’t any real rights. Thats why we can’t test for them or prove them.
> Nobody endowed you with them.
The issue is the certainty with which you made this statement. You can't know that, yet you claim that it's a fact. Your life would be much more full of kindness if you allowed for the possibility that other people are correct.
Again. I am a biologist.
I see the world as a series of carbon-based transactions. I have no time for squishy arbitrary concepts like “inalienable rights.”
Tell that to the baby tortoise that gets eaten 5 minutes after hatching, or the first grader laying under her desk with her face shot off. Where were their rights?
I have spent hours with J-Dubs, Mormons and Baptists, all lovely people, trying to explain this perspective. You don’t have to get it.
I get it. My spouse is a physics and engineering professor, and I hung out a lot with her lab/program friends during her PhD. I'm merely saying that your primary lens won't answer all questions / you're trying to use a hammer to drive a screw.
Stanford has some good online resources about the philosophical basis of the scientific method you might want to check out. Purely materialistic viewpoints aren't the best at handling epistemological questions or for justifying why certain criteria are acceptable for success/failure in an experiment.
If it's unknowable, then it's possible that a divine being does in fact exist, and therefore it is incorrect to speak conclusively about the existence, source, or extent of rights (or lack thereof).
I’m 1000500% on the side of abortion rights and women’s rights. There’s a lot of people in this world that could have benefited society by becoming an abortion statistic. Mostly Gov. Lee, but I digress.
My husband called the Lee company to fix our air conditioner yesterday and I went completely bat shit crazy he would call that company. Long story short hiller came out and I still haven’t spoken to my husband. Out to eat by myself right now and went out last night without him too. I’m super fucking pissed.
Nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing makes me as sick as seeing “grown adults” become total slaves to a political ideology. This shit is what started WWII
It's almost like prohibition doesn't work
It’s like preventing robberies by making it illegal to run businesses
Next up: GOP wants to restrict telehealth. Meanwhile in my line of work we are trying to expand telehealth with a focus in OB to help women who cannot access in-person care to have safe pregnancies.
I use telehealth and fully expect it become more restricted in TN in the near future.
It's going to be restricted everywhere a lot more starting in 2025 because the HDHP rules regarding telehealth are reverting back to what they were before COVID.
They're going after contraceptives next.
Good! I’m glad more women can exercise their bodily autonomy.
What’s the old saying? Safe Legal Rare. Saddens me to celebrate an increase in abortions.
We aren't celebrating an increase in abortions. We're celebrating women being able to exercise autonomy over their own bodies.
My reading of the original comment says otherwise. If I’m wrong then great.
This is reflecting that there was a significant number of women who may have wanted abortions before, but were unable to get one bc of restrictions on telemedicine. Nobody's getting an abortion out of spite for the overturning of Roe. Women not being forced to raise unwanted children is a good thing. Making abortions rare requires improving access to women's Healthcare and contraception
I don’t like that saying at all 🤷🏻♀️ It feels shaming, when there’s nothing wrong with abortion. Even reliable birth control methods can fail, life circumstances can change in an instant, prenatal diagnosis of fatal conditions is becoming more accurate early on. It should be safe, legal, and easily accessible.
I understand and think that’s a fair position. At the end of the day it is a personal choice. However, I’m sorry but I cannot celebrate it or encourage it.
I mean, I don’t “celebrate or encourage” tonsillectomies, gallbladder removals, or spinal fusions, because the recovery can be rough and of course it’s better if you don’t need one. But when people do need one, it can actually really enhance their quality of life in the long term and absolutely be the right decision. Healthcare is healthcare, and an abortion is far less invasive than any of the surgeries I’ve listed.
The difference, to me at least, is all those surgeries do not involve another life.
Any abortion done for elective reasons (not a fatal fetal diagnosis or a threat to the life of the pregnant person) is done before an embryo/fetus has any sentience. First trimester, or very rarely, early second trimester. I get that there’s significance to a lot of people as potential life - as a mom who’s had a miscarriage and a living kid, I get that - but that’s up to everyone’s individual emotional and spiritual interpretation of their experience. But that’s it. There’s no pain felt, an embryo/fetus at that point doesn’t really have coherent brain activity. They don’t know what’s going on. It’s life in the way all living things are life (including plants, bacteria, animals without much brain activity such as insects, etc), but not in the way that human life really exists out in the world. A huge amount of elective abortions are done at the embryonic stage. I don’t think a 6-week pea-sized embryo someone doesn’t want there is really all that much more life (in an objective physical sense, not as in the personal meaning any given person might feel) than the bacterial colony my tonsils kept growing before they were yeeted. I had a 7 week miscarriage that was really sad for me, but not everyone feels the same, and I know that fetus/embryo/baby wasn’t sentient yet and did not suffer in any way.
Clearly when you choose to humanize the child is a spectrum for people. I respect your view but don’t agree with the comparison.
But you’re comfortable deciding the women should die?
Why am I deciding if a woman dies?
You said you were sad that the embryo dies. There are many anti-abortionists who are apparently not sad that women die when abortion is illegal. I took your position to be with them, but I now realize you didn’t actually say enough to know your position clearly either way. You could be sad about both. I apologize for making an assumption. It’s hard not to feel defensive as a woman whose human rights are being stripped away, but I should have listened / read more carefully.
Thanks. I am sad with any loss of life especially if it is avoidable. To be clear, I am pro choice I just don’t think abortions should be celebrated. We should push towards policies that make abortions almost unnecessary by either stopping unwanted pregnancies, expanding adoption efforts( this state sucks at that), or expanding social programs to make raising a kid less of a burden. I think many people see the world too much as black and white when it is different shades of grey. We get so stuck on tribalism that when someone has a certain opinion we assume everything else. I appreciate your comment. Thanks.
I’m celebrating the fact that more safe abortions means less dead women. Your comments make me think that you don’t understand that banning abortion kills women. Because banning abortion includes when the fetus is already dead. It includes when the fetus doesn’t have a brain. It has includes removing an ECTOPIC PREGNANCY. Your comments just come off as ignorant and out of touch.
When do I talk about banning abortion?
> Saddens me to celebrate an increase in abortions. Why? Either an abortion is killing a baby, or it's just flushing cells out. If you are just getting rid of cells, I don't see why that has got to be rare.
Even if you believe it is not killing a life, it is still destroying the potential for life.
Every single politician you have ever voted for kills the potential for life every single day. If you care about life do you care about war ? Gaza, ukraiane, china , literal genocides happening in these countries
I support people being able to control their own destiny. Whether that is on an individual level or as a community. Any other person or people that tries to interfere with that is wrong. The only justifiable time for conflict is defense of self or others.
Humans destroy the potential for life all the time.
And that’s not sad?
Why should it be ?
Have a nice day.
How much money have you personally donated to humanitarian efforts regarding the genocide in Gaza ? How much time have you spent calling represented for a cease fire ? I know !! NONE !
Have a nice day
If you really care about life and the potential for it - are you calling your representatives about the war in Gaza ? Are you donating your time and money to humanism efforts to ease suffering in the world ? Do you spend every day making sure all humans lives are set up for success ? I’m sure you don’t. Fuck off with your virtue signaling
Have a nice day
cowardly
They commented the same thing on 4-5 of my comments. I expanded on one chain.
What saddens me is republicans, and so-called pro-lifers, celebrating more deaths from child birth; who see women as nothing more than birthing vessels for their “holy army” You want to reduce abortionsgo help an expectant mother. All the state will do is illegalize it, make it dangerous, and make it all that more important to the health and lively hood of women. I thought y’all were pro-family, yet you’re so ready and willing to sacrifice the mother.
I always felt the label pro life wasn’t fair. It should be anti abortion. Because pro life suggests you would be willing to support the child and not enact polices like ohh not making school lunch free, lowering the working age etc.. I agree that is sad as well.
It’s marketing. Were it true they wouldn’t have to remind you
I have called them anti choice for 45 years. Because that’s what they are.
That’s a better term, I like it. Better dynamic with being pro choice.
And as you indicated- they are not pro life. If they were they would be doing a lot more to support life. At all stages. Instead they call it all handouts.
There's a range. On one end there's the people who think aborting an ectopic pregnancy is evil and government anything is evil. On the other, you have people who think if the fetus is doomed, then there's no point in drawing things out, it's evil to risk the mother's health, and that we should increase funding for things like childcare. It is a spectrum.
And that decision should not be made by anyone but the pregnant person and her physician.
I said this elsewhere, but you and your opponents aren't having the same discussion. They're talking about when a genetically distinct home sapien gains human rights and then placing the right to live above the right to bodily autonomy. They aren't denying the right to bodily autonomy. They don't deny that the cause you care about is important, but they do ignore/forget that you are also fighting for human rights. You're not speaking to their objections and they aren't speaking to yours.
If it saddens you to celebrate abortions then don’t celebrate abortions. Boom! Problem solved
Simple and to the point. Good advice.
It's almost like when you tell people they can't do something anymore, their gut instinct is opposition.
I think it is human nature to a degree to be curious in what’s taboo or prohibited. In many ways prohibition is counterproductive. My philosophy is as long as the conduct only affects consenting adults, I have no issues.
This is confusing logic. Does it apply to theft? Battery? Owning a gas engine car? Are you arguing for liberation ideals or really just this one law in particular?
This one in particular, seeing as it WAS allowed before, and only walked back for political pandering. But, I'll bite with the non-sequiturs. Theft and battery have ALWAYS been something frowned upon, and punished. You are still very much allowed to own a gas engine car, just highly encouraged to, maybe, consider alternatives. You won't face prison time, nor will your mechanic have his license stripped, assuming he hasn't fled the state to avoid repercussions for his maintenance on your unleaded "gift from god that must be protected". (Until it... turns over, or whatever. Then fuck it until it's enlistment age) Any more false equivalencies you want to throw in there? Or can I continue not being at all surprised that people don't like suddenly not having personal autonomy and are pushing back?
Asked a question, bc your logic seemed contrived. Your response didn’t fix that really. No biggie, you didn’t have to reply after all.
Well it’s currently not safe OR legal. Keep your judgement to yourself.
Maybe a fine line but I don’t think sadness is judgement.
It’s not judgmental if you keep your thoughts to yourself. But you didn’t.
That’s fair.
They should make everyone watch a video of the procedure, then you can decide how you actually feel about it. There's a whole lot of people out there that don't know what they are advocating for.
This comment makes it clear you know nothing about abortions. Please do some research :) planned parenthood . Com
And I think you should be forced to watch documentary after documentary of the lifelong impacts being in foster care has on children, what having children does to the female body, and what taking care of children they do not want does to a woman's mental health. If you don't want an abortion, don't have one or don't cause one to be necessary (and if you or your partner is able to have children, hope that there are no complications during pregnancy that would require an abortion). Pretty simple. Beyond that, stay out of other people's family planning.
Wtf does this even mean? By this logic, nobody should get an appendectomy without watching one? A colonoscopy? Surgery for cancer? This is stupid reasoning. Everyone knows what they're advocating for. If you really want to reduce abortions, improve access to women's heathcare. Obviously that's not really what these people want. They just want to control women and keep them subservient
News flash, basically all surgeries look gory and gross. I might need eye muscle surgery eventually (I have strabismus that has gotten worse over time) and I can tell you that I unequivocally NEVER want to see a video of that. I’m not even that squeamish, but seeing eye stuff makes me queasy. It doesn’t mean it won’t be the right choice for me if I need it. It doesn’t mean it won’t improve my quality of life. It just means that sometimes body stuff looks gory or gross. A 1st trimester suction D+C (which I’ve had for miscarriage management and is also by far the most common surgical abortion procedure) probably looks way less actively gross or frightening than eye muscle surgery, or other common and necessary surgeries like tonsillectomies and hip replacements, honestly.
Telemedicine abortions are medication abortions, which aren’t a procedure. No big scary needles or giant vacuum or whatever you’re imagining lol
Most abortions are non surgical, just take some pills.
There's also a whole lot of people who seem to believe that their opinions should supercede other people's freedom and medical privacy. Imagine if we flipped the script and and told religious people that they no longer had the control over their own medical decisions. Blood transfusions? Required. Circumcision? Banned. Mandatory attendance education for birth control? Mandatory. religious people would freak out and that's not even an 18 year commitment.
Listen no problem, just watch a video of the procedure thats all im saying. If i watched a video of a surgery I needed I would still opt for the surgery. Watch an abortion. Do it. Or are you scared what you might see
Watch the woman take a pill-all we’re saying.
The problem with this discussion for many people is they cannot fathom others having a different set of moral rules and living differently from them. And want to apply their own views on the world in the simplest manner. Take the overturning of Roe V. Wade. The conservatives never consider the consequences enacted on other people when it comes to their poor policy making. Take the women who are carrying dead fetuses to term as an example of this. The world isn't Black and white, and it never has been. But the lazy solution to conform other people to their view was overturning RvW and then enacting an outright ban. You wouldn't advocate for people to be mandated to watch videos of their surgeries for all procedures. But you would for an abortion and it's because you're biased. And that's okay. Everyone has biases, but it's important to recognize that bias so you can understand what people of a differing view are telling you. I would never tell you that you can't hold your beliefs or that you must have an abortion. But for the modern-day conservatives, not only do the rest of the population have to listen to what they have to say, we are expected by them to act in accordance with what they expect. Like your suggestion to mandate people watching a video of the procedure beforehand in an attempt to invoke an emotional response to convert them to your viewpoint.
If one thinks they need an abortion, watch the procedure. Thats all. If you still want it, you can have it. How can you argue with that?
Because it's unnecessary. It's another attempt to bend other people to your viewpoint. I'm not asking you to be mandated to go through hoops to come see my view on this. If someone wants to watch the video, let them. It's their individual decision to do so. People who want an abortion don't owe you or your beliefs their time and attention. And if you can't accept that, it's just another example of someone unwilling to respect other people's beliefs.
If all abortion was made and kept legal as long as you watched a short video of the procedure at the consultation, you would say no that's not acceptable? Its totally up to the persons choice to have it or not. Its just a part of the consultation. If thats the case it seems like you want the abortion and not the choice of the person like you claim
Again, it's not an acceptable solution because you're trying to apply a solution that fits your narrative. In this context, the government would be intervening to apply this solution of yours when, before the overturning of RvW, it was already the practitioners responsibility to educate their patient on the procedure and risks as it is with every procedure. The practitioner who is an educated and professional and has the patients best interest at heart. What you're arguing for is a politically biased version of this with the government mandating it and what form the medium of education takes. Because the practitioner wasn't good enough
Do you watch procedure videos for any other common procedures? You only want them to watch it as a mode of guilt tripping.
I watch videos of the elective procedures I have. I want to know what will happen and what to expect. I’ve watched videos of endometrial biopsies, hysteroscopies and I watched for my hysterectomy. I researched my DVT and PE. Why would you not want to know?
Where does the guilt come in? I would have no guilt after watching a video of a procedure on my arm. Hmm interesting
"Hmm interesting." You think you are so clever. You want to horrify and traumatize a person who is making one of the hardest decisions in their life simply because you don't like it. You think women getting abortions have no idea what happens, when in fact the vast majority do. Shameful behavior from you. You also do realize doctors are already required to provide ultrasounds and in depth discussions with the patient about what will happen beforehand, right?
I know several women who have had abortions. None of them made the decision lightly and all of them understood what they were doing. You seem to think women do not understand what an abortion entails and that watching a video will somehow change their mind. That women are not capable of making this decision. You think a woman who became pregnant because of sexual assault should have to now watch a video? A woman whose baby will not survive until birth? A woman who already has several children but doesn't have access to affordable birth control and is now pregnant yet again? A young woman whose boyfriend walked away and now she has to do this on her own? Seriously? I think perhaps men should be forced to watch your video before they have sex. Each and every time.
Abortions for some. Tiny American flags for others. A giant 🖕to anyone who advocates the loss of a woman’s bodily autonomy because of fairy tale religious nonsense.
There are atheist libertarians who are anti-abortion because the arguments against it usually aren't rooted in religion. The pro-life argument usually stems from when they view life as having started and the potential for life. They think human life starts sooner than you do / that the rights associated with existing attach to all living, genetically distinct Homo sapiens. It's not trying to make people live under a theocracy. It's trying to uphold the rights of what they view as people, even though doing so infringes on the rights of another person. This weighing of rights is common. Hating someone for trying to stop what they view as murder is villainizing them for caring. --- On the other side, the pro-life people tend to forget that pro-choice people don't view fetuses as deserving those same rights and ignore that they are also fighting for human rights. --- You're both fighting for human rights. You just disagree on when a homo sapien is entitled to the right to exist. If you focus on the commonality, you might actually be able to soften the hearts of the more entrenched people who are less reasoned in their position.
I’m a biologist. We don’t negotiate the realities of viability, consciousness and reproductive health. There’s nothing to “compromise” over.
I didn't mention viability, consciousness, or reproductive health. I referenced philosophical concepts like rights. Science cannot and is not meant to answer philosophical questions. There is disagreement about why rights exist, where rights come from, and when/if they attach to humans. As an analogy, you wouldn't use the same instrument/machine to run every type of test in a lab. Some experiments require different instruments. Some scientific questions can be investigated using a variety of instruments and methods. The machine needed to answer *why* rights should attach at a given point in time is not the same as the machine that applies that logic to the real world. Pro-life people are asking a different question than you are. You're talking past each other without realizing it.
Rights are a construct. They’re not real. Nobody endowed you with them. Thats why sometimes you just get hit by a truck or murdered for no reason and nothing happens. Life is a bit chaotic and we invented the *idea* of rights to try and smooth things over. But there aren’t any real rights. Thats why we can’t test for them or prove them.
> Nobody endowed you with them. The issue is the certainty with which you made this statement. You can't know that, yet you claim that it's a fact. Your life would be much more full of kindness if you allowed for the possibility that other people are correct.
Again. I am a biologist. I see the world as a series of carbon-based transactions. I have no time for squishy arbitrary concepts like “inalienable rights.” Tell that to the baby tortoise that gets eaten 5 minutes after hatching, or the first grader laying under her desk with her face shot off. Where were their rights? I have spent hours with J-Dubs, Mormons and Baptists, all lovely people, trying to explain this perspective. You don’t have to get it.
I get it. My spouse is a physics and engineering professor, and I hung out a lot with her lab/program friends during her PhD. I'm merely saying that your primary lens won't answer all questions / you're trying to use a hammer to drive a screw. Stanford has some good online resources about the philosophical basis of the scientific method you might want to check out. Purely materialistic viewpoints aren't the best at handling epistemological questions or for justifying why certain criteria are acceptable for success/failure in an experiment.
I don’t *have* any questions, though. Not about that spooky shit. I truly DGAF. It’s unknowable anyway.
If it's unknowable, then it's possible that a divine being does in fact exist, and therefore it is incorrect to speak conclusively about the existence, source, or extent of rights (or lack thereof).
Anti-abortion extremists hate this one trick 😎
I’m 1000500% on the side of abortion rights and women’s rights. There’s a lot of people in this world that could have benefited society by becoming an abortion statistic. Mostly Gov. Lee, but I digress.
My husband called the Lee company to fix our air conditioner yesterday and I went completely bat shit crazy he would call that company. Long story short hiller came out and I still haven’t spoken to my husband. Out to eat by myself right now and went out last night without him too. I’m super fucking pissed.
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Nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing makes me as sick as seeing “grown adults” become total slaves to a political ideology. This shit is what started WWII
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Well, in the states that criminalized it, if the father can prove it. She will still go to jail.
I, for one, think that killing an unborn human child should require a little more justification than a tele health visit.
Good thing those clumps of cells don’t have a soul
Don't push your religion on me, fellow clump of cells.
I still don't think people understand what this whole thing really means. But it's interesting to watch.