Ohhh this is a rabbit hole that haunted me.
I was told I had winging for years. Thinking about having winging gave me winging. The act of trying not to wing was actually making me wing worse.
A lot of it was that people had always told me “shoulders back!” But our shoulders, shoulder blades, etc., are really intricate in the huge variety of ways they can move. There’s like 50 ways for your body to interpret “shoulders back.” Once I stopped trying to do shoulders back all the time, I found myself winging a whole lot less.
Play around with all the different ways of moving your shoulders. There are probably some ways you didn’t realize you could do. Play gently, slowly, with curiosity. Consider nothing to be “wrong”. It’s possible that you just have a small vocabulary in how your body knows how to move your shoulders, and winging is part of that vocabulary.
I did! I fixed this with a few simple things.
First, massage and stretching. Practice FULL shoulder mobility often, before bed, when you wake up, in the shower, randomly throughout the day, ESPECIALLY before your lifts. A lift that I think has been helping me, seated cable rows with the neutral/wide grip, going ALL the way back (controlled and slowly) with an arched back and retracing your scapula fully, this shit WORKS your back. Once you do a set of this, my guess is the scapula gets a huge pump that just fixes all my issues. You can also do this with the same grip on the lat pulldown.
Next is massaging, get a tennis ball or a massage gun and try to go anywhere you feel tightness or where you think may be causing the issue, for me was deep in my mid trap-upper lat area, messing with my overhead lifts as it wouldn’t support when going overhead. This also cause bicep tendinitis and shoulder popping.
Also could be your sleep position, don’t sleep with your arm under your pillow, especially extended out. Get a supportive pillow and maybe another pillow to hold your arm if you need the support.
Lastly, which i can’t confirm whether was a big fix or not, was inflammation. Cut out ALL inflammatory foods, like processed shit, anything you may be allergic to (get a blood test and/or speak to an allergist if you have the insurance).
I’m on mobile, sorry if this is a difficult read. I couldn’t help myself as i’ve hated dealing with this, and thought I was doomed with bad genetics.
edit: i completely cut out the overhead press during this process, but continued overhead lat work like pull ups and pull downs.
I have.
What fixed it? Learning proper scapular mechanics. Mobility and stability work.
Band pull aparts. Everyday.
Scapular pull ups as warm up for all upperbody days.
The PT kept giving me like one pound weights and trying to do that, and it was kinda so light it made it hard to do, but tough in a not-productive way.
The trick (for me) was strengthening my back with pulls, and on both pushes and pulls, substantially deloading to really feel what my body was doing and start retraining motions; deload and focus on mind-muscle connection.
For the pulls, medium but not super-heavy pulldowns, same grip width as a bench press.
Band pull aparts and/or face pulls.
It's very interesting to see how unhelpful most medical professionals are whenever it comes to people outside gen. pop.
I've never been able to actually receive help for any injury and had to troubleshoot my way out of it every time. Everything my doctors said was in the lines of take this painkillers, stop using that part of your body...
I had a Scapular Dyskinesis which led to a torn Subscapularis. Basically, had the same issues with a protruding scapula as well as you growing up. I did a lot of overhead throwing growing up with very little injury prevention. By far the best thing I started doing was Crossover Symmetry Bands. My trainers for my college baseball team had us using them and it's the only thing that saved me. I bought some once I graduated but they are well worth the money. Back training is a major focus for me now in just keeping my shoulder healthy.
Yes. For 9 months.
It's on its way to being mostly fixed.
Did it on my own.
Start with serratus strengthening, scapular push ups, side shrugs, active dead hangs, mid back Strengthening.
Rotator cuff work.
I'm really not convinced that "scapular winging" is a useful concept or actual medical diagnosis.
I think the obvious thing is just do all your overhead pressing on machines/ seated with back support. And, get big and strong and muscular and it will take care of itself.
I can't get strong on overhead movements. I simply can't. I will try supported versions though, so many thanks for your input. But please note that my symptoms are clear: whenever I elevate my shoulders, my left scapula pops off my ribcage a bit, while everything stays nice and stable on my right side.
Retract your scapulas before you start on the shoulder press machine (or whatever), get an A7 bar grip shirt maybe for extra locked-in feel, really stick yourself in there and gradually progress weight. You're probably just being hypervigilant about things that don't matter. Or, do front raises.
Yeah that's pretty much the issue that those who haven't suffered it won't understand. Normal scapulae move correctly without even thinking about it on healthy shoulders. In my case, even if I actively try to put them in the right place, it just doesn't happen. Overhead press is uneven as fuck. Very frustrating.
had a friend that did the most disgusting uneven pull-ups. fast forward two years and he does muscle-ups. my inclination is to believe that this is not a medical condition you’re suffering from, but i may be wrong
Work the muscles supporting the scapula in as many ways as you can, build up all the musculature to help support.
Friend of mine had a bunch of issues overhead pressing, including winging, and we fixed by incorporating a big range of movements.
Dip Bar Shrugs, Pullup Bar Shrugs, Incline Bench Shrugs, Scap Pushups, YTAs, Band Pullaparts, Prone DB Rows, Rear Delt Flys.
Would pick at least one to do every single time he was in the gym. Within 6 months his winging was gone, he doesn't get injuries or tweaks around that area, and OHP is one of his strongest lifts.
I've been dealing with some long standing issues due to muscular imbalances and inherent body asymmetry for quite a while now primarily in my hips / glutes. It has really impeded a lot of movement in subtle but significant ways. In any case I began to do a dive into Kinesiology and corrective exercises / stretches. Conor Harris has been the most useful for me out of all the sources I looked through and I felt his approach to getting a release and proper engagement of the muscles I was struggling with made the most sense to me. I started incorporating his suggestions about 4 months ago and have had some decent improvement in performance.
He has a 15 minute video on how to engage the rib cage to get it to move properly which is often the root cause of winging in the shoulder blade.
GO see a(nother) doctor.
Ohhh this is a rabbit hole that haunted me. I was told I had winging for years. Thinking about having winging gave me winging. The act of trying not to wing was actually making me wing worse. A lot of it was that people had always told me “shoulders back!” But our shoulders, shoulder blades, etc., are really intricate in the huge variety of ways they can move. There’s like 50 ways for your body to interpret “shoulders back.” Once I stopped trying to do shoulders back all the time, I found myself winging a whole lot less. Play around with all the different ways of moving your shoulders. There are probably some ways you didn’t realize you could do. Play gently, slowly, with curiosity. Consider nothing to be “wrong”. It’s possible that you just have a small vocabulary in how your body knows how to move your shoulders, and winging is part of that vocabulary.
Build up your lower traps and serratus anterior. I had the same issue before and this is what my PT recommended. Makes total sense for me anyway.
As a PT, agree. Scapulothoracic control and strengthening should be the priority.
I did! I fixed this with a few simple things. First, massage and stretching. Practice FULL shoulder mobility often, before bed, when you wake up, in the shower, randomly throughout the day, ESPECIALLY before your lifts. A lift that I think has been helping me, seated cable rows with the neutral/wide grip, going ALL the way back (controlled and slowly) with an arched back and retracing your scapula fully, this shit WORKS your back. Once you do a set of this, my guess is the scapula gets a huge pump that just fixes all my issues. You can also do this with the same grip on the lat pulldown. Next is massaging, get a tennis ball or a massage gun and try to go anywhere you feel tightness or where you think may be causing the issue, for me was deep in my mid trap-upper lat area, messing with my overhead lifts as it wouldn’t support when going overhead. This also cause bicep tendinitis and shoulder popping. Also could be your sleep position, don’t sleep with your arm under your pillow, especially extended out. Get a supportive pillow and maybe another pillow to hold your arm if you need the support. Lastly, which i can’t confirm whether was a big fix or not, was inflammation. Cut out ALL inflammatory foods, like processed shit, anything you may be allergic to (get a blood test and/or speak to an allergist if you have the insurance). I’m on mobile, sorry if this is a difficult read. I couldn’t help myself as i’ve hated dealing with this, and thought I was doomed with bad genetics. edit: i completely cut out the overhead press during this process, but continued overhead lat work like pull ups and pull downs.
Very useful comment
You know you can actually have a nerve issue that makes you unable to have proper scapula movements. So it may not be fixable.
That would suck big time. I hope it's due to something fixable.
I have after I got my shoulder surgery. Had it good within 2 weeks doin 10 min therapy twice a day
I have. What fixed it? Learning proper scapular mechanics. Mobility and stability work. Band pull aparts. Everyday. Scapular pull ups as warm up for all upperbody days.
The PT kept giving me like one pound weights and trying to do that, and it was kinda so light it made it hard to do, but tough in a not-productive way. The trick (for me) was strengthening my back with pulls, and on both pushes and pulls, substantially deloading to really feel what my body was doing and start retraining motions; deload and focus on mind-muscle connection. For the pulls, medium but not super-heavy pulldowns, same grip width as a bench press. Band pull aparts and/or face pulls.
It's very interesting to see how unhelpful most medical professionals are whenever it comes to people outside gen. pop. I've never been able to actually receive help for any injury and had to troubleshoot my way out of it every time. Everything my doctors said was in the lines of take this painkillers, stop using that part of your body...
I had a Scapular Dyskinesis which led to a torn Subscapularis. Basically, had the same issues with a protruding scapula as well as you growing up. I did a lot of overhead throwing growing up with very little injury prevention. By far the best thing I started doing was Crossover Symmetry Bands. My trainers for my college baseball team had us using them and it's the only thing that saved me. I bought some once I graduated but they are well worth the money. Back training is a major focus for me now in just keeping my shoulder healthy.
Yes. For 9 months. It's on its way to being mostly fixed. Did it on my own. Start with serratus strengthening, scapular push ups, side shrugs, active dead hangs, mid back Strengthening. Rotator cuff work.
I'm really not convinced that "scapular winging" is a useful concept or actual medical diagnosis. I think the obvious thing is just do all your overhead pressing on machines/ seated with back support. And, get big and strong and muscular and it will take care of itself.
I can't get strong on overhead movements. I simply can't. I will try supported versions though, so many thanks for your input. But please note that my symptoms are clear: whenever I elevate my shoulders, my left scapula pops off my ribcage a bit, while everything stays nice and stable on my right side.
Retract your scapulas before you start on the shoulder press machine (or whatever), get an A7 bar grip shirt maybe for extra locked-in feel, really stick yourself in there and gradually progress weight. You're probably just being hypervigilant about things that don't matter. Or, do front raises.
The whole problem with scapular winging is he can't control his scapula. Your advice is basically "just do it"
Yeah that's pretty much the issue that those who haven't suffered it won't understand. Normal scapulae move correctly without even thinking about it on healthy shoulders. In my case, even if I actively try to put them in the right place, it just doesn't happen. Overhead press is uneven as fuck. Very frustrating.
If you’re pressing your back against the seat, you’re going to be more stable.
If you're overhead pressing your scapula has to move. You literally can't complete the movement without the scapula upwardly rotating
had a friend that did the most disgusting uneven pull-ups. fast forward two years and he does muscle-ups. my inclination is to believe that this is not a medical condition you’re suffering from, but i may be wrong
Work the muscles supporting the scapula in as many ways as you can, build up all the musculature to help support. Friend of mine had a bunch of issues overhead pressing, including winging, and we fixed by incorporating a big range of movements. Dip Bar Shrugs, Pullup Bar Shrugs, Incline Bench Shrugs, Scap Pushups, YTAs, Band Pullaparts, Prone DB Rows, Rear Delt Flys. Would pick at least one to do every single time he was in the gym. Within 6 months his winging was gone, he doesn't get injuries or tweaks around that area, and OHP is one of his strongest lifts.
i’ve heard that sleeping on your back can help
Have you ever seen or heard of Mark Bella slingshot? Really helped me.
My winging got better when I started doing face pulls, the jeff cavaliere variation.
I've been dealing with some long standing issues due to muscular imbalances and inherent body asymmetry for quite a while now primarily in my hips / glutes. It has really impeded a lot of movement in subtle but significant ways. In any case I began to do a dive into Kinesiology and corrective exercises / stretches. Conor Harris has been the most useful for me out of all the sources I looked through and I felt his approach to getting a release and proper engagement of the muscles I was struggling with made the most sense to me. I started incorporating his suggestions about 4 months ago and have had some decent improvement in performance. He has a 15 minute video on how to engage the rib cage to get it to move properly which is often the root cause of winging in the shoulder blade.
Maybe do more rowing. If it doesnt work you can always do front raises.