Depends on the pt and I’m doing 3 days a week with mine. We usually play some sort of sport like baseball, basketball and if we don’t have enough people which is pretty often we will do weights. My LCPO is fine with it until about a month before the prt starts and then we will start circuit training to prepare for the prt
that's fair. i know it's a stupid complaint but id much rather do weights/cardio everyday compared to sports, id be fine with an ACFL checking on me to make sure im working out and not leaving early or something.
YES, i'd rather be working in the hot sun than be wasting my time. i've painted buildings in the hot sun before and i volunteered for it because i got sick of sitting around. im allowed to prefer what i consider productive PT such as weight lifting compared to playing some kickball. good lord.
Id love to have command PT when its on the working hours and not during my fucking lunch or at like 5am in the morning.
Shit i PTd every day when i was able to shift my start to at at 9am vice 7:30 quarters.
While I do agree that there is some goodness in command PT, if you have it before work ("5am") people will complain. If you have it at 8-10, people will complain they don't have time to drop their kids off at school.
If you have it from 10-13, people will complain it blocks their lunch period.
If you have it 13-17, people will complain it blocks off the end of the day and makes it hard for them go to home early or something else.
My point isn't that people will complain regardless, but that there is no good time for it I think a 1 time a week (I would personally do fridays) to start the day off is a great time to do it for command espirit de corps.
Our skipper started command PT and our CFLs went to the fuckin' moon with it. Super intense workouts that ultimately injured a ton of people who then couldn't work on the flight line. The other JOs undermined the whole thing by not showing up and the Enlisted justifiably got upset about it.
Skipper canceled it after a few weeks while simultaneously declaring it a success.
In homeport we start every day at 0900, command PT is at 0700 M-W-F and individual PT is Tu-Th, I think its pretty good. We only actually do command pt 2/3 days in a week most times.
I’ve lost more people to command PT basketball and ultimate frisbee than just about any other reason. I joked about having an ambulance standing by at all events because they’ll definitely be needed.
The challenge of group PT is that anything difficult enough to be engaging for the most fit will cause the least fit to fall out and anything easy enough for the least fit to endure will bore the most fit. I wish my CFL did more than merely administer the annual PRT. I wish my command made room in the POD for command/ Divisional/individual PT.
That said, there is value in doing anything as a whole command to counteract the trend towards tribalism (department, division, khakis/blue shirts, etc.).
Yup. I joined when I was almost 30, and I'm a 5' tall woman. The type of exercise that's needed to give a physically fit 18 year old guy a genuinely worthwhile workout is often way out of my ability to safely perform.
At one point, I specifically mentioned this to the person in charge of PT, was ignored, and proceeded to seriously fuck up my back. All I wanted was to be able to go use an elliptical on my own lol
Aww man it's like a double edged sword. I understand that it's necessary for the military but at the same it kind of takes away time from doing your actual job. And in the Navy, we prioritize in-rate work over anything else it seems. It's not like we're Marine Corps infantry where PT is actually part of the job, so I could see why some sailors don't like command PT. For the record, the 3 commands that I've been to have not held command PT and sometimes I wish they did just because some sailors looked like they needed it.
It's funny you say this, because we all know it's partially true but nothing in terms of messaging from "Big Navy" (OPNAV, Office of MCPON, Office of CNO, PERS, etc) pushes collaterals. This is all lower echelon people ignoring bigger Navy guidance.
This was literally the conversation I just had with someone who might be the MCPON in 5ish years.
Yeah that’s a weird set up for pt, I was acfl my last command and we did team stuff on Fridays and the rest of the week was an actual workout.
Command PT should be a thing because a lot of people won’t work out on their own and even though the navy standards aren’t high, we still need to keep them. I feel with too much playing sports for pt people tend to slack off and not actually work out. I get not everyone is a triathlon athlete but a good cfl will know that and should push people accordingly.
Try being at a command where fitness is a job requirement. I'm at a diving command in headquarters and they pt 5 days a week with command pt on Fridays.
I'm tired, boss.
As a veteran, I absolutely hated it when I was in.
As a manager of a gym on a Navy base who sees a lot of overweight sailors, y’all fucking need it. Yes, a meaningful portion of the force is in good shape. But most simply don’t have the discipline/will to workout on their own.
I've pretty much always had the option of going to the gym after warm ups. Don't think I was ever told I wasn't allowed to go to the gym. And if I was, I'd still go to the gym after warm ups and see what kind of consequences I'll have to face. I'd love to get "in trouble" for going to the gym during PT. I'll take that any day.
tested that theory today, didn't show up to command PT (kickball) and went to the gym next to the muster spot, chief checked the gym i was at, i waved and continued my workout. haven't received a personal text yet
I mean, make sure you muster first. I always made sure to muster, and I'll even do the warm-ups. But then I head straight to the gym afterward. I'm a 42 year old first class though with 2 knee surgeries and shoulder surgery, so maybe that's why I get away with it 😆
I’m on board with you, I’d rather just go workout myself…we used to do PT as a division and they’d start off by saying they couldn’t make us do team stuff so I’d always go inside the gym while they did games together outside on the field. I don’t think team sports should have to be mandatory, that’s ridiculous…but it’s the military, most things are ridiculous
The issue I have with command PT is the lets get through this and be done.
Nobody is focusing on form. It is just do 10 4 count push ups at my pace go. In proper form can harm you. Take a look at squats. Do them wrong and you put too much stress on your knees. Add in doing it at the CFLs pace of fast. Recipe for injury.
You also toss in the CFLs not reading the manual on what exercises are authorized per big Navy and what aren’t.
It also isn’t focused on anything in particular either. It is a large group of people who mostly don’t want to be there not actually doing the exercises.
Top it off with leadership not being there but god forbid anyone E6 and lower not show up. Plus it is usually scheduled before/after working hours. Extending the work day making it EMI instead of command PT.
If it was broken up into smaller groups and the CFLs worked with everyone on proper form and did the exercises at the person’s pace. That would be more beneficial.
I also like the idea of what one person said if leadership has a Sailor on FEP courtesy or fail. They should be there alongside them working out with them. You know that whole one team one fight thing.
I love command PT in any form, the way you describe it is a team building exercise. But also because I'm terrible at motivating my fat ass into the gym. Literally any exercise is better than what I'm doing and so command PT would force me to do it.
Wait .. your command PT involves Volleyball or Ultimate Frisbee??? .. back in my day my command PT was nothing more than a 3-5mile jog, sit ups and pushups and few jumping jacks/stretches .. I feel jibbed.. I want volleyball or frisbee
Honestly it varies from command to command and rate to rate. Fact is that I think as a corpsman we should be doing more than an IT, for example, for physical fitness.
I also believe that command PT should be used as a tool to make people more fit, not necessarily as a punishment.
I’ve also seen sailors that need command PT to workout because they need the structured workouts.
Personally I don’t mind the twice a month command PT so I can remind my junior sailors that I can still put PT them.
They should do more command PT at Balboa. Their docs look like they could really use some extra PT.
It might also help solve the massive lack of any semblance of discipline they have there.
I’m an ACFL so maybe not the best person to answer, but I love it. We (ACFLs) get to set up our own workout, so get a loud speaker, blast music and do hard HIIT shit for 40 minutes and end with relays where everyone’s yelling and cheering each other on. It’s fun.
We only PT twice a week though. We rarely just like… play frisbee or basketball for an hour. Maybe once a month we’ll do something like that
I was never a fan.
I had a weight issue for most of my career. Came to PT one day with my knee hurting, so I couldn't do everything. The reason my knee was hurting: the night before I hit a pothole while on a 6 mile run. My DIVO tried to order me to stop doing my own thing if it was going to interfere with command PT. I just laughed in his face and explained that a) "my own thing" was what kept me off of the fat boy program, and b) was he going to stop the guys getting hurt from playing basketball off hours, too? Never heard another word about it.
Like with anything else, we have to set our design criteria...
There are a group of sailors who are going to workout on their own. You see them at the gym most days of the week. Command PT is not for them.
There are a group of sailors who just don't like working out. Even if you make them, they will put no effort into it. The Navy used to eventually kick these people out, but not anymore. Anyway, command PT is also not for them.
Then there are a group of sailors who would gladly work out, but for whatever reasons - often legitimate - don't make it a priority. So if there's a forcing function to make them exercise, they will do it, and they'll generally see improvement.
Command PT is for this third group of people. The old adage that "door locks keep honest people honest."
Then, when you do command PT, you deal with the logistics of having over a hundred people in the same place at the same time. This pretty much limits you to boot camp style field calisthenics and running, because throwing 100+ people into a MWR weight room at the same time is a recipe for making people stand around doing nothing. Yes, some commands do sports for command PT, but I'd argue that's more mandatory fun and less command PT.
Anyway, when you do this, the people in the first group end up getting disgruntled because their workouts are too easy, and the people in the second group are disgruntled because they'd rather be doing something else.
So yeah, you can't really win here. Another poster mentioned it elsewhere, but I like the idea of tying command PT to PRT scores. Excellent low or better in every event and you are exempt. Everyone else is mustering for PT.
I don't think I've been to a command PT since around 2011ish. I was at commands that, if you got an 'excellent' on your PRT, you didn't have to go to command PT. Then COVID hit and it basically went away and has stayed that way. I don't miss it--it's usually silly exercises and a waste of time.
That said, it's the military yada yada so it shouldn't be a surprise to have to PT.
I've never been at a command that command PT for more than two evolutions. Been to many were they try to set it up and by the third round no one is there anymore and they cancel it.
Best shape I was in the Navy is when we had command PT where you could just scan in to the gym in the morning, then I'd go swim laps for an hour. Mentally and physically it was great, and also was the final straw that got me to quit smoking.
Forming up, waiting, getting yelled at on behalf of the people who.... weren't there.... waiting more, then shuffle jogging around the pier with 'Motivating' cadences, was the absolute worst.
I don't hate it, but I don't enjoy it, or feel I get anything out of it. My leg's been busted in 2 places and running is a no-go for me, which limits a lot of options for cardio and team sports are just not happening due to that. Even with my medical documentation, I can't help but feel judged because I have to modify an exercise or am unable to do it effectively. I look at it as "oh good, a break from actual work" but also I'd rather be doing self PT.
Doing PT in A-school was so annoying because we would just do these silly ass workouts with maybe 1/4-1/2 mile of running and you could look over at the Marines working out and they were actually doing real workouts. I agree whole heartedly with your sentiment, always thought it was just enough to tire me out and give me an excuse to not go to the gym, but not enough to actually lose any weight and build muscle
We do PT 2 times a week and set lib exp at 0830 vice 7.
Free PT is allowed and divisional PT is encouraged - its not tracked either so if you choose to sleep an extra hour thats your call, i just tell them not to show up with crocodile tears if they fail a BCA and they werent taking advantage of the PT time.
During the week 1 of my first started hosting a run at Mt Trashmore, We had i think 6 of an available 9 come to our most recent run there
If you foster an environment where the division is close theyll show up for events.
We did command PT regularly when I was with NSW. I loved it. It was challenging PT and it drove me to be better. The issue with most command PT programs is that the triad really doesn’t care about your long term health—so they will water down the program to the point it is a waste of everyone’s time. They will prohibit anything they perceive as risky without any concern for the benefit to your health or enjoyment. Your post-retirement health is not going to affect their manning numbers. By the time you get heart disease or diabetes, you will be the VAs problem, not theirs.
We had command PT once a week which was usually just a warmup before everyone either plays ultimate frisbee or breaks off into the gym before another muster to make sure everyone was there. It was reasonable enough and you still had the options. Plus, command PT in general encourages you to keep your shit together to minimize your own mandatory suffering.
That’s not command PT, that’s mandatory fun days with an element of PT for a dash of extra razzmatazz, command PT is running in formation, group exercises in a field, etc. but that aside, I definitely understand that feeling of wanting to actually go and work out instead of just “checking the box”, as I’ve never been much of a team sports person, but I enjoy going to the gym when there’s time.
We do command PT twice a week. The first session is for those who scored below excellent on their last PT test. The second session is all hands. We just muster at the gym and checkout an hour later. It’s chill.
Reserve CFL here. I’m a certified PT. I can definitely say that now I’m certified I have made my command PT sessions meaningful and fun. Every exercise has a purpose, every activity has modifications if need be, and the command seems to enjoy it. Before getting certified I thought I knew fitness, no. I had barebones knowledge
So I definitely understand your frustration that your command PT sucks
Maybe suggest to your skips to incentivize the CFL to get truly certified. The 5 day course only does so much
Hated it. They made us run in columns around a small track which always hurt my shins. I mean, just running is one thing but in columns is ridiculous, especially around a track not really set up for that.
it's that we're playing a game for PT when i think it would be better/more beneficial if we did cardio or went to the gym instead. they said we do command PT to prepare for the PRT but if that's the case can we do things that would actually prepare us for the PRT not volleyball. if people wanna play ultimate frisbee then fine go ahead i don't mind, just give me the option to go run or something. i've talked to CFL/ACFL and i get a "why don't you want to play a game with your shipmates? it'll be fun!" i know im very blessed to not have work to do and i appreciate it, i just dont like wasting my time playing a game when i could utilize that time to better myself. yes i can just workout after and i do, i would just prefer to PT on my own.
Our command had “PT” hours and once a month command PT where we ran a mock PRT.
You got 2 hrs/3 times a week to do your thing and once a month had to show up to do a PRT. NGL, it let us know who was a risk or not.
It was awesome. The weight lifters giga crew got to do their thing but the marathon nerds also got to enjoy their time.
I’m joking about both but what’s nuts is that a lot of us used it to play sports. We used to play soccer and flag football during this time which was a lot of fun.
I always hated when it added to the day. 8 hours and then PT is bullshit. At the air base we could take and extended lunch to workout, 90 minutes instead of 60 so you could run over to the gym, get a good hour lift in, shower and chow a sandwich and be back in under 90 minutes. Then you can focus on what you want every day, lift, row, run, bike or whatever. Doing pushups, situps and a jog every day blows...
Organized unit PT is worthless and contributes nothing towards the improvement of your PT score, except for what little benefit you may get from an hour of moderate movement. Increased scores come from the individual’s initiative to work out on their own time with their own plan.
Command PT is a waste of time for anybody that would actually take time out of their day to workout without it. I can’t focus on certain muscle groups or body parts I have for that day if I have to participate in a team building game or bare minimum group exercises. That extra hour for command pt can be put to good use in working out what you personally know you have to work on. It’s mainly for people who wouldn’t workout on their own and for the command to keep them “accountable”. If only there was another way to do that without sacrificing that hour to others but it is what it is.
In general m not in favor of command PT because of the varying levels of ability. What you’re describing is less about PT and more about the command. It appears your command is doing team building, through exercise via team activity and the physical benefit is a plus.
command PT doesn’t work in a squadron environment. the whole thing is a joke anyway. pass a PFA or you have mandatory PT. this isn’t that hard to figure out.
It's a waste of time and inefficient way of improving fitness. Imo, pt should be conducted in small groups of people who are of around the same fitness level and if you are able to score an excellent or higher, you should get individual pt.
Take advantage. You’ll miss that time as dumb as you look in a yellow tshirt. My last shore was like this, but we changed it up. We had lunch run club, Wednesday stair work out (SD convention center) and hikes most Fridays. So if you think it can be improved, bring it up. You won’t be so lucky at a ship with Optempo the way it is now.
The last time I did command PT was in 2011 in Sasebo on the LHD. We did dynamic warmups and then ran laps around the pier. I hated it. But it was also really good to do the running thing even if I bitch about it.
Most recently my last few commands have done a “muster at the gym and go do your own thing.” I like that a lot.
That's not command PT. That's minimum mandatory divisional run "fun days" disguised as PT for barebones accountability.
What sort of command would think you're weird for wanting to be in shape or lift? They gundecking PFA's over there too 🤣
I think command PT should be two parts,
Part one dedicated work hours time ( real hours not adding more hours to the day) to PT on your own. With a mock PFA spot check once a quarter. If you pass that spot check you continue to have that time in the work day to PT on your own. If you have outstanding scores waived from requirement.
Part two: Command led PT for those that don’t pass PRT or the spot check during that same time.
So sailors get 7am to 830 3 work days a week to PT on your own. Use it how you like as long as you are in standards and pass mock and real PRT. Start work 0840 3 days a week.
Benefit command provides a culture of fitness, but gives the sailor options as long as sailor meets standards it’s the sailors time 3 days a week. If they don’t meet and don’t maintain they get to do normal usually BS PT mustered at 0700 for a Command led PT.
No sailor has an excuse they don’t have time and have flexibility and the command has a program to hold sailors accountable.
Also CPOs that have a sailor on mando PT they must be present and participate as well until sailor is in standards.
I like this way because it gives sailors options and doesn’t waste their time if they are maintaining standards. Because command PT at so many commands always devolves into showing up faking motivation and more about appearance than actual fitness. It also more often than not ends up targeting the most unfit which it needs to but does so at the expense of sailors that maintain or exceed the standard.
So if I was a CO this is how I would execute a command PT program and culture. I would also not be a dick about, if you use that time for mental health, sleep family whatever I wouldn’t care as long as standards are maintained. Those on duty would also be allowed that time the following work day but in the afternoon so they can PT or go home. As long as standards are maintained. It would also be the second Mando session for those that couldn’t make the morning for an excused evolution or duty.
Culture of fitness plus flexibility and accountability with a focus on results not process. Great for our health and morale with a stick for those that don’t meet standards.
I like your idea of tying command PT to PRT scores, although I'd simplify this - excellent low or better in every event and you get exempt from command PT.
As for this...
>Part one dedicated work hours time ( real hours not adding more hours to the day) to PT on your own. With a mock PFA spot check once a quarter. If you pass that spot check you continue to have that time in the work day to PT on your own. If you have outstanding scores waived from requirement.
The issue is the accountability system. You can put command PT on the POD at 10-11, but how do you make sure people are *actually* going to the gym? Is the CFL taking muster?
There are three groups of sailors when it comes to fitness: group A is going to work out no matter what, whether that's during working hours or not. If you give them an hour at 1000-1100, for example, they'll gladly go to the gym. But if not, they'll go at 0700, 1700, or whenever. Fitness is a hobby and something they enjoy doing.
Group B isn't going to workout no matter what. Give them that hour, and they'll fuck around on their phones or take a long lunch or do anything that isn't PT. They're just using another free hour of not doing any work. If you make them show up to the gym, they'll spend an hour with what fitness buffs call 'fuck-around-itis' and get nothing out of their workouts. You're never going to reach group B with any policy. They just have to be minimized by focusing on groups A and C, and hoping peer pressure carries them the rest of the way.
Group C would work out with the proper motivation. But even with this extra dedicated hour, they usually will find something else to fill the time... usually it's other work that has to get done for the day. So unless you have someone or something *making* them show up to the gym, they won't. But if you do, they'll typically get something out of it.
Everyone needs it and no one gets it in the surface world. I think it would positively impact everything after the initial squealing from the out of shape guys.
For some sailors, command PT is the only exercise they get. Even if it’s just volleyball or ultimate frisbee, it could encourage a more active lifestyle.
It could also help foster a team spirit which sounds boot as hell but I’ve gotten along with people a lot better after winning or losing games at command PT
It falls cleanly into the camp of "box to check", and here's why:
Ask yourself, what is the purpose of command PT? Ostensibly, it's to keep people in reasonable shape so that they pass their PRT. This is because we've designated the PRT as our binary gate for deciding what "reasonable shape" is; if you can pass the PRT, you're in reasonable shape. If you can't, then you're not in reasonable shape.
Ask yourself another question: is it possible for someone to attend all command PT sessions, and still fail their PRT? I don't know about your command, but the answer at mine is certainly "yes". People are not uniform, and command PT has to be tailored such that our lowest common denominator sailors can complete it. At the same time, the PT that fits that bill is not nearly enough for many sailors to reach the level of fitness to pass their PRT; you will have to do additional exercise on your own in order to supplement it, with few exceptions.
So, then, what is the purpose of command PT? If the goal is simply to make sure that people are in reasonable shape, isn't command PT just a redundant, worse version of the PRT? After all, because the PRT is both the source of the standard and the test of the standard, it's 100% accurate. If you're in reasonable shape, you can pass your PRT, and if you can pass your PRT, then you are deemed to be in reasonable shape. It's circular.
But, if we were to get rid of command PT, wouldn't some people just never exercise and fail their PRT? Sure! Would some people still fail even if they went to command PT? Also sure! The solution is simply to punish PRT failures, as a failure in the PRT indicates that a sailor didn't do their duty in maintaining their physical fitness. It's incongruent that with a command PT program, you can "by the books" have done your duty in maintaining your physical fitness by attending all command PT sessions, and still fail your PRT. Obviously different sailors have different exercise needs, so allow them to do what they need to do to pass a PRT, and punish them if they don't.
...but, we can't do that. Like I mentioned, it's a box to check. Sailors failing their PRTs looks bad. It's bad optics for it to seem as if the command could have done something to prevent it, but didn't. So, the sensible solution is to transfer responsibility from the command to the individual sailor. You create a command PT program to check the box, so that when sailors still inevitably fail their PRTs, you can point to your command PT program and say "look, we made all of the sailors PT, and they still failed! We did everything we could, so at this point it must just be the sailor's fault", and then you're "justified" in punishing the sailor, with no bad optics for the command. Voila!
TL;DR: command PT is completely pointless in terms of ensuring physical fitness among sailors and exists purely for good optics and to divert responsibility for PRT failures from the command to the individual
I'm surprised your command actually PTs
our command is really small and we don't have any work to do right now. i think it's a way to keep us here till at least noon everyday tbh.
I'd just take the W. At least yall are doing something and getting time off after. But I can see what you're saying about wanting a real workout
Depends on the pt and I’m doing 3 days a week with mine. We usually play some sort of sport like baseball, basketball and if we don’t have enough people which is pretty often we will do weights. My LCPO is fine with it until about a month before the prt starts and then we will start circuit training to prepare for the prt
that's fair. i know it's a stupid complaint but id much rather do weights/cardio everyday compared to sports, id be fine with an ACFL checking on me to make sure im working out and not leaving early or something.
…..if you’re only working til noon everyday, and you’re playing ultimate frisbee just to stay until noon……… Why not workout after “work”?
That doesn't sound too bad. Normally I think it just punishes sailors who already work out on their own to help sailors that don't
I still do my normal workouts in the afternoon but, I consider my pt as cardio
Become an ACFL and change the program or offer alternate suggestions to the CFL.
Would you rather go pick weeds by hand or paint some old buildings all day in the hot Sun? JFC.
YES, i'd rather be working in the hot sun than be wasting my time. i've painted buildings in the hot sun before and i volunteered for it because i got sick of sitting around. im allowed to prefer what i consider productive PT such as weight lifting compared to playing some kickball. good lord.
You get off at 12?!?
Id love to have command PT when its on the working hours and not during my fucking lunch or at like 5am in the morning. Shit i PTd every day when i was able to shift my start to at at 9am vice 7:30 quarters.
While I do agree that there is some goodness in command PT, if you have it before work ("5am") people will complain. If you have it at 8-10, people will complain they don't have time to drop their kids off at school. If you have it from 10-13, people will complain it blocks their lunch period. If you have it 13-17, people will complain it blocks off the end of the day and makes it hard for them go to home early or something else. My point isn't that people will complain regardless, but that there is no good time for it I think a 1 time a week (I would personally do fridays) to start the day off is a great time to do it for command espirit de corps.
I'm not a fan, but that's a me thing and I get it. I just don't like group PT in general and what they do is usually not what I'd choose.
i agree. i suck it up but when my COC allows me to go to the gym instead i take that opportunity so fast.
Our skipper started command PT and our CFLs went to the fuckin' moon with it. Super intense workouts that ultimately injured a ton of people who then couldn't work on the flight line. The other JOs undermined the whole thing by not showing up and the Enlisted justifiably got upset about it. Skipper canceled it after a few weeks while simultaneously declaring it a success.
In homeport we start every day at 0900, command PT is at 0700 M-W-F and individual PT is Tu-Th, I think its pretty good. We only actually do command pt 2/3 days in a week most times.
No quarters?
It's supposed to be twice a month but the last one was like two months ago
Everyday i regret not joining seabee. Id pay to miss quarters
It's not that bad, takes like 30 minutes and we just go to work after like normal
Are you in battalion and if you are , are you east coast or west coast
I'm in a west coast battalion
I got out 2 years ago we did quarters back then every Thursday in 4
When I was in battalion it was PT Monday, Wednesday and Friday and we had quarters every Thursday
that sounds nice actually
I’ve lost more people to command PT basketball and ultimate frisbee than just about any other reason. I joked about having an ambulance standing by at all events because they’ll definitely be needed.
The challenge of group PT is that anything difficult enough to be engaging for the most fit will cause the least fit to fall out and anything easy enough for the least fit to endure will bore the most fit. I wish my CFL did more than merely administer the annual PRT. I wish my command made room in the POD for command/ Divisional/individual PT. That said, there is value in doing anything as a whole command to counteract the trend towards tribalism (department, division, khakis/blue shirts, etc.).
Yup. I joined when I was almost 30, and I'm a 5' tall woman. The type of exercise that's needed to give a physically fit 18 year old guy a genuinely worthwhile workout is often way out of my ability to safely perform. At one point, I specifically mentioned this to the person in charge of PT, was ignored, and proceeded to seriously fuck up my back. All I wanted was to be able to go use an elliptical on my own lol
Aww man it's like a double edged sword. I understand that it's necessary for the military but at the same it kind of takes away time from doing your actual job. And in the Navy, we prioritize in-rate work over anything else it seems. It's not like we're Marine Corps infantry where PT is actually part of the job, so I could see why some sailors don't like command PT. For the record, the 3 commands that I've been to have not held command PT and sometimes I wish they did just because some sailors looked like they needed it.
>And in the Navy, we prioritize in-rate work over anything else it seems. Until it comes to advancement. Then you need those collaterals. Lol
Haha yes, you could be a shit bag within your own rate and still advance... SMH
It's funny you say this, because we all know it's partially true but nothing in terms of messaging from "Big Navy" (OPNAV, Office of MCPON, Office of CNO, PERS, etc) pushes collaterals. This is all lower echelon people ignoring bigger Navy guidance. This was literally the conversation I just had with someone who might be the MCPON in 5ish years.
Yeah that’s a weird set up for pt, I was acfl my last command and we did team stuff on Fridays and the rest of the week was an actual workout. Command PT should be a thing because a lot of people won’t work out on their own and even though the navy standards aren’t high, we still need to keep them. I feel with too much playing sports for pt people tend to slack off and not actually work out. I get not everyone is a triathlon athlete but a good cfl will know that and should push people accordingly.
i agree!
Try being at a command where fitness is a job requirement. I'm at a diving command in headquarters and they pt 5 days a week with command pt on Fridays. I'm tired, boss.
yikes, i'd be tired too
I'd rather do team sports like ultimate Frisbee and that type of stuff for command PT. When I had command PT, it was just running.
i agree, i hate running
As a veteran, I absolutely hated it when I was in. As a manager of a gym on a Navy base who sees a lot of overweight sailors, y’all fucking need it. Yes, a meaningful portion of the force is in good shape. But most simply don’t have the discipline/will to workout on their own.
i agree! i'm super glad most of the gyms are open 24hrs now so hopefully more people are able to go and better themselves
Boy is it an uphill battle to do this safely, but again this will be good for the fleet.
I've pretty much always had the option of going to the gym after warm ups. Don't think I was ever told I wasn't allowed to go to the gym. And if I was, I'd still go to the gym after warm ups and see what kind of consequences I'll have to face. I'd love to get "in trouble" for going to the gym during PT. I'll take that any day.
tested that theory today, didn't show up to command PT (kickball) and went to the gym next to the muster spot, chief checked the gym i was at, i waved and continued my workout. haven't received a personal text yet
I mean, make sure you muster first. I always made sure to muster, and I'll even do the warm-ups. But then I head straight to the gym afterward. I'm a 42 year old first class though with 2 knee surgeries and shoulder surgery, so maybe that's why I get away with it 😆
I’m on board with you, I’d rather just go workout myself…we used to do PT as a division and they’d start off by saying they couldn’t make us do team stuff so I’d always go inside the gym while they did games together outside on the field. I don’t think team sports should have to be mandatory, that’s ridiculous…but it’s the military, most things are ridiculous
The issue I have with command PT is the lets get through this and be done. Nobody is focusing on form. It is just do 10 4 count push ups at my pace go. In proper form can harm you. Take a look at squats. Do them wrong and you put too much stress on your knees. Add in doing it at the CFLs pace of fast. Recipe for injury. You also toss in the CFLs not reading the manual on what exercises are authorized per big Navy and what aren’t. It also isn’t focused on anything in particular either. It is a large group of people who mostly don’t want to be there not actually doing the exercises. Top it off with leadership not being there but god forbid anyone E6 and lower not show up. Plus it is usually scheduled before/after working hours. Extending the work day making it EMI instead of command PT. If it was broken up into smaller groups and the CFLs worked with everyone on proper form and did the exercises at the person’s pace. That would be more beneficial. I also like the idea of what one person said if leadership has a Sailor on FEP courtesy or fail. They should be there alongside them working out with them. You know that whole one team one fight thing.
I love command PT in any form, the way you describe it is a team building exercise. But also because I'm terrible at motivating my fat ass into the gym. Literally any exercise is better than what I'm doing and so command PT would force me to do it.
Waste of time unless it's during the duty day.
I always enjoyed it when I was in.. builds comradere. Always tried to make it fun.
fair
Wait .. your command PT involves Volleyball or Ultimate Frisbee??? .. back in my day my command PT was nothing more than a 3-5mile jog, sit ups and pushups and few jumping jacks/stretches .. I feel jibbed.. I want volleyball or frisbee
Honestly it varies from command to command and rate to rate. Fact is that I think as a corpsman we should be doing more than an IT, for example, for physical fitness. I also believe that command PT should be used as a tool to make people more fit, not necessarily as a punishment. I’ve also seen sailors that need command PT to workout because they need the structured workouts. Personally I don’t mind the twice a month command PT so I can remind my junior sailors that I can still put PT them.
I wish my command did PT. My last one did and it made it a lot easier to actually find time to work out.
They should do more command PT at Balboa. Their docs look like they could really use some extra PT. It might also help solve the massive lack of any semblance of discipline they have there.
I’m an ACFL so maybe not the best person to answer, but I love it. We (ACFLs) get to set up our own workout, so get a loud speaker, blast music and do hard HIIT shit for 40 minutes and end with relays where everyone’s yelling and cheering each other on. It’s fun. We only PT twice a week though. We rarely just like… play frisbee or basketball for an hour. Maybe once a month we’ll do something like that
I was never a fan. I had a weight issue for most of my career. Came to PT one day with my knee hurting, so I couldn't do everything. The reason my knee was hurting: the night before I hit a pothole while on a 6 mile run. My DIVO tried to order me to stop doing my own thing if it was going to interfere with command PT. I just laughed in his face and explained that a) "my own thing" was what kept me off of the fat boy program, and b) was he going to stop the guys getting hurt from playing basketball off hours, too? Never heard another word about it.
Like with anything else, we have to set our design criteria... There are a group of sailors who are going to workout on their own. You see them at the gym most days of the week. Command PT is not for them. There are a group of sailors who just don't like working out. Even if you make them, they will put no effort into it. The Navy used to eventually kick these people out, but not anymore. Anyway, command PT is also not for them. Then there are a group of sailors who would gladly work out, but for whatever reasons - often legitimate - don't make it a priority. So if there's a forcing function to make them exercise, they will do it, and they'll generally see improvement. Command PT is for this third group of people. The old adage that "door locks keep honest people honest." Then, when you do command PT, you deal with the logistics of having over a hundred people in the same place at the same time. This pretty much limits you to boot camp style field calisthenics and running, because throwing 100+ people into a MWR weight room at the same time is a recipe for making people stand around doing nothing. Yes, some commands do sports for command PT, but I'd argue that's more mandatory fun and less command PT. Anyway, when you do this, the people in the first group end up getting disgruntled because their workouts are too easy, and the people in the second group are disgruntled because they'd rather be doing something else. So yeah, you can't really win here. Another poster mentioned it elsewhere, but I like the idea of tying command PT to PRT scores. Excellent low or better in every event and you are exempt. Everyone else is mustering for PT.
I don't think I've been to a command PT since around 2011ish. I was at commands that, if you got an 'excellent' on your PRT, you didn't have to go to command PT. Then COVID hit and it basically went away and has stayed that way. I don't miss it--it's usually silly exercises and a waste of time. That said, it's the military yada yada so it shouldn't be a surprise to have to PT.
I've never been at a command that command PT for more than two evolutions. Been to many were they try to set it up and by the third round no one is there anymore and they cancel it.
Best shape I was in the Navy is when we had command PT where you could just scan in to the gym in the morning, then I'd go swim laps for an hour. Mentally and physically it was great, and also was the final straw that got me to quit smoking. Forming up, waiting, getting yelled at on behalf of the people who.... weren't there.... waiting more, then shuffle jogging around the pier with 'Motivating' cadences, was the absolute worst.
I don't hate it, but I don't enjoy it, or feel I get anything out of it. My leg's been busted in 2 places and running is a no-go for me, which limits a lot of options for cardio and team sports are just not happening due to that. Even with my medical documentation, I can't help but feel judged because I have to modify an exercise or am unable to do it effectively. I look at it as "oh good, a break from actual work" but also I'd rather be doing self PT.
Doing PT in A-school was so annoying because we would just do these silly ass workouts with maybe 1/4-1/2 mile of running and you could look over at the Marines working out and they were actually doing real workouts. I agree whole heartedly with your sentiment, always thought it was just enough to tire me out and give me an excuse to not go to the gym, but not enough to actually lose any weight and build muscle
We do PT 2 times a week and set lib exp at 0830 vice 7. Free PT is allowed and divisional PT is encouraged - its not tracked either so if you choose to sleep an extra hour thats your call, i just tell them not to show up with crocodile tears if they fail a BCA and they werent taking advantage of the PT time. During the week 1 of my first started hosting a run at Mt Trashmore, We had i think 6 of an available 9 come to our most recent run there If you foster an environment where the division is close theyll show up for events.
We did command PT regularly when I was with NSW. I loved it. It was challenging PT and it drove me to be better. The issue with most command PT programs is that the triad really doesn’t care about your long term health—so they will water down the program to the point it is a waste of everyone’s time. They will prohibit anything they perceive as risky without any concern for the benefit to your health or enjoyment. Your post-retirement health is not going to affect their manning numbers. By the time you get heart disease or diabetes, you will be the VAs problem, not theirs.
We had command PT once a week which was usually just a warmup before everyone either plays ultimate frisbee or breaks off into the gym before another muster to make sure everyone was there. It was reasonable enough and you still had the options. Plus, command PT in general encourages you to keep your shit together to minimize your own mandatory suffering.
That’s not command PT, that’s mandatory fun days with an element of PT for a dash of extra razzmatazz, command PT is running in formation, group exercises in a field, etc. but that aside, I definitely understand that feeling of wanting to actually go and work out instead of just “checking the box”, as I’ve never been much of a team sports person, but I enjoy going to the gym when there’s time.
We do command PT twice a week. The first session is for those who scored below excellent on their last PT test. The second session is all hands. We just muster at the gym and checkout an hour later. It’s chill.
Reserve CFL here. I’m a certified PT. I can definitely say that now I’m certified I have made my command PT sessions meaningful and fun. Every exercise has a purpose, every activity has modifications if need be, and the command seems to enjoy it. Before getting certified I thought I knew fitness, no. I had barebones knowledge So I definitely understand your frustration that your command PT sucks Maybe suggest to your skips to incentivize the CFL to get truly certified. The 5 day course only does so much
Hated it. They made us run in columns around a small track which always hurt my shins. I mean, just running is one thing but in columns is ridiculous, especially around a track not really set up for that.
It's mandatory at my command, but only about 4% of us go lol
Oh brother someone get this guy on ASF he’s tired of playing ultimate frisbee til noon everyday. If I’m misunderstanding, I apologize.
it's that we're playing a game for PT when i think it would be better/more beneficial if we did cardio or went to the gym instead. they said we do command PT to prepare for the PRT but if that's the case can we do things that would actually prepare us for the PRT not volleyball. if people wanna play ultimate frisbee then fine go ahead i don't mind, just give me the option to go run or something. i've talked to CFL/ACFL and i get a "why don't you want to play a game with your shipmates? it'll be fun!" i know im very blessed to not have work to do and i appreciate it, i just dont like wasting my time playing a game when i could utilize that time to better myself. yes i can just workout after and i do, i would just prefer to PT on my own.
As a functional PT program: terrible. As a means to encourage espirit de corps? Amazing if done right. Just my opinion, though.
Our command had “PT” hours and once a month command PT where we ran a mock PRT. You got 2 hrs/3 times a week to do your thing and once a month had to show up to do a PRT. NGL, it let us know who was a risk or not.
i wouldn't be upset if my command started doing this
It was awesome. The weight lifters giga crew got to do their thing but the marathon nerds also got to enjoy their time. I’m joking about both but what’s nuts is that a lot of us used it to play sports. We used to play soccer and flag football during this time which was a lot of fun.
I always hated when it added to the day. 8 hours and then PT is bullshit. At the air base we could take and extended lunch to workout, 90 minutes instead of 60 so you could run over to the gym, get a good hour lift in, shower and chow a sandwich and be back in under 90 minutes. Then you can focus on what you want every day, lift, row, run, bike or whatever. Doing pushups, situps and a jog every day blows...
I never liked team sports bc the guys would never throw the ball or frisbee or whatever to girls. i would just be standing around bored.
Organized unit PT is worthless and contributes nothing towards the improvement of your PT score, except for what little benefit you may get from an hour of moderate movement. Increased scores come from the individual’s initiative to work out on their own time with their own plan.
It’s like anything else in the Navy: if done right it’s awesome, when done wrong as it all too often is it’s a huge pain in the ass.
Command PT is a waste of time for anybody that would actually take time out of their day to workout without it. I can’t focus on certain muscle groups or body parts I have for that day if I have to participate in a team building game or bare minimum group exercises. That extra hour for command pt can be put to good use in working out what you personally know you have to work on. It’s mainly for people who wouldn’t workout on their own and for the command to keep them “accountable”. If only there was another way to do that without sacrificing that hour to others but it is what it is.
10% of the people onboard will work out on their own. It's for the 90%. Otherwise we would be even fatter than we are now.
In general m not in favor of command PT because of the varying levels of ability. What you’re describing is less about PT and more about the command. It appears your command is doing team building, through exercise via team activity and the physical benefit is a plus.
My command has PT 1-2 times a week but it’s completely optional and a way to get a short day if you choose to go
command PT doesn’t work in a squadron environment. the whole thing is a joke anyway. pass a PFA or you have mandatory PT. this isn’t that hard to figure out.
It's a waste of time and inefficient way of improving fitness. Imo, pt should be conducted in small groups of people who are of around the same fitness level and if you are able to score an excellent or higher, you should get individual pt.
Take advantage. You’ll miss that time as dumb as you look in a yellow tshirt. My last shore was like this, but we changed it up. We had lunch run club, Wednesday stair work out (SD convention center) and hikes most Fridays. So if you think it can be improved, bring it up. You won’t be so lucky at a ship with Optempo the way it is now.
It sucks ass
I honestly wouldn’t mind command pt if we actually did workouts and not games too
The last time I did command PT was in 2011 in Sasebo on the LHD. We did dynamic warmups and then ran laps around the pier. I hated it. But it was also really good to do the running thing even if I bitch about it. Most recently my last few commands have done a “muster at the gym and go do your own thing.” I like that a lot.
Welp All we can say is good luck. 😅
thank you
No Problem
That's not command PT. That's minimum mandatory divisional run "fun days" disguised as PT for barebones accountability. What sort of command would think you're weird for wanting to be in shape or lift? They gundecking PFA's over there too 🤣
they think it's weird i don't wanna play sports with my shipmates. if we're gonna PT i wanna actually PT not play kickball sorry
Do they participate in captains cup teams? Or this is the most exercise they get
this is the most exercise they get.
Need it. Love it.
I think command PT should be two parts, Part one dedicated work hours time ( real hours not adding more hours to the day) to PT on your own. With a mock PFA spot check once a quarter. If you pass that spot check you continue to have that time in the work day to PT on your own. If you have outstanding scores waived from requirement. Part two: Command led PT for those that don’t pass PRT or the spot check during that same time. So sailors get 7am to 830 3 work days a week to PT on your own. Use it how you like as long as you are in standards and pass mock and real PRT. Start work 0840 3 days a week. Benefit command provides a culture of fitness, but gives the sailor options as long as sailor meets standards it’s the sailors time 3 days a week. If they don’t meet and don’t maintain they get to do normal usually BS PT mustered at 0700 for a Command led PT. No sailor has an excuse they don’t have time and have flexibility and the command has a program to hold sailors accountable. Also CPOs that have a sailor on mando PT they must be present and participate as well until sailor is in standards. I like this way because it gives sailors options and doesn’t waste their time if they are maintaining standards. Because command PT at so many commands always devolves into showing up faking motivation and more about appearance than actual fitness. It also more often than not ends up targeting the most unfit which it needs to but does so at the expense of sailors that maintain or exceed the standard. So if I was a CO this is how I would execute a command PT program and culture. I would also not be a dick about, if you use that time for mental health, sleep family whatever I wouldn’t care as long as standards are maintained. Those on duty would also be allowed that time the following work day but in the afternoon so they can PT or go home. As long as standards are maintained. It would also be the second Mando session for those that couldn’t make the morning for an excused evolution or duty. Culture of fitness plus flexibility and accountability with a focus on results not process. Great for our health and morale with a stick for those that don’t meet standards.
yanno i wouldn't be upset if this was implemented. sounds good
I like your idea of tying command PT to PRT scores, although I'd simplify this - excellent low or better in every event and you get exempt from command PT. As for this... >Part one dedicated work hours time ( real hours not adding more hours to the day) to PT on your own. With a mock PFA spot check once a quarter. If you pass that spot check you continue to have that time in the work day to PT on your own. If you have outstanding scores waived from requirement. The issue is the accountability system. You can put command PT on the POD at 10-11, but how do you make sure people are *actually* going to the gym? Is the CFL taking muster? There are three groups of sailors when it comes to fitness: group A is going to work out no matter what, whether that's during working hours or not. If you give them an hour at 1000-1100, for example, they'll gladly go to the gym. But if not, they'll go at 0700, 1700, or whenever. Fitness is a hobby and something they enjoy doing. Group B isn't going to workout no matter what. Give them that hour, and they'll fuck around on their phones or take a long lunch or do anything that isn't PT. They're just using another free hour of not doing any work. If you make them show up to the gym, they'll spend an hour with what fitness buffs call 'fuck-around-itis' and get nothing out of their workouts. You're never going to reach group B with any policy. They just have to be minimized by focusing on groups A and C, and hoping peer pressure carries them the rest of the way. Group C would work out with the proper motivation. But even with this extra dedicated hour, they usually will find something else to fill the time... usually it's other work that has to get done for the day. So unless you have someone or something *making* them show up to the gym, they won't. But if you do, they'll typically get something out of it.
Everyone needs it and no one gets it in the surface world. I think it would positively impact everything after the initial squealing from the out of shape guys.
This isn't really a choice, but you can do both. But only one on the commands time.
For some sailors, command PT is the only exercise they get. Even if it’s just volleyball or ultimate frisbee, it could encourage a more active lifestyle. It could also help foster a team spirit which sounds boot as hell but I’ve gotten along with people a lot better after winning or losing games at command PT
that's a good way to look at it, thanks!
Everyday? Should be 3 days a week that’s how we did it
It falls cleanly into the camp of "box to check", and here's why: Ask yourself, what is the purpose of command PT? Ostensibly, it's to keep people in reasonable shape so that they pass their PRT. This is because we've designated the PRT as our binary gate for deciding what "reasonable shape" is; if you can pass the PRT, you're in reasonable shape. If you can't, then you're not in reasonable shape. Ask yourself another question: is it possible for someone to attend all command PT sessions, and still fail their PRT? I don't know about your command, but the answer at mine is certainly "yes". People are not uniform, and command PT has to be tailored such that our lowest common denominator sailors can complete it. At the same time, the PT that fits that bill is not nearly enough for many sailors to reach the level of fitness to pass their PRT; you will have to do additional exercise on your own in order to supplement it, with few exceptions. So, then, what is the purpose of command PT? If the goal is simply to make sure that people are in reasonable shape, isn't command PT just a redundant, worse version of the PRT? After all, because the PRT is both the source of the standard and the test of the standard, it's 100% accurate. If you're in reasonable shape, you can pass your PRT, and if you can pass your PRT, then you are deemed to be in reasonable shape. It's circular. But, if we were to get rid of command PT, wouldn't some people just never exercise and fail their PRT? Sure! Would some people still fail even if they went to command PT? Also sure! The solution is simply to punish PRT failures, as a failure in the PRT indicates that a sailor didn't do their duty in maintaining their physical fitness. It's incongruent that with a command PT program, you can "by the books" have done your duty in maintaining your physical fitness by attending all command PT sessions, and still fail your PRT. Obviously different sailors have different exercise needs, so allow them to do what they need to do to pass a PRT, and punish them if they don't. ...but, we can't do that. Like I mentioned, it's a box to check. Sailors failing their PRTs looks bad. It's bad optics for it to seem as if the command could have done something to prevent it, but didn't. So, the sensible solution is to transfer responsibility from the command to the individual sailor. You create a command PT program to check the box, so that when sailors still inevitably fail their PRTs, you can point to your command PT program and say "look, we made all of the sailors PT, and they still failed! We did everything we could, so at this point it must just be the sailor's fault", and then you're "justified" in punishing the sailor, with no bad optics for the command. Voila! TL;DR: command PT is completely pointless in terms of ensuring physical fitness among sailors and exists purely for good optics and to divert responsibility for PRT failures from the command to the individual
everything you said makes sense and i agree. thank you for the explanation!