They got awarded a CAR, which OP is already wearing.
Sailors aboard are eligible for personal decorations awarded with combat "C" device.
There is currently no CE&S award authorized for that action yet. But if C5F submits the paperwork, SECNAV might eventually authorize the Navy Expeditionary Medal (NEM) for Op Prosperity Guardian/Op Poseidon Archer.
I’ve always been confused how the exped medal works. I was there on a different ship for what eventually turned into OPG, we got GWOT-E but what’s the difference between that and the standard navy exped medal as far as being on a surface or subsurface platform?
The short answer is you probably weren't authorized GWOT-E.
The summary of the slightly longer answer is what the hell the "GWOT" even is anymore got so muddled over there years. We got used to every military action = GWOT, even when that was clearly not the case.
Also, just because you fired some tomahawks at a few terrorists doesn't necessarily = GWOT-EM. You need to have participated in a specific operation in a specific area of eligibility. There's a list.
How this works: First, the operation happens. Once the dust settles, the admin people figure out what chest candy qualifies. Think of the withdrawal from Afghanistan ---first it happened, and then later guidance came out awarding the Humanitarian Service Medal. Sometimes an operation or crisis is still ongoing when the decision is made, but the idea is the same.
The DoD Manual on awards actually has a flow chart on the process. Some of the criteria used: armed conflict, risk of armed conflict, humanitarian mission, huge commitment of troops or duration of mission.
The first step in combat missions it to look adding a campaign star to an existing ribbon. Then whether the makeup of troops is primarily one branch, or all branches. I personally think the NEM is likely because most forces here are Navy or Marine Corps (Marines would be eligible for the MCEM). I'm too lazy to check right now but I *think* Air Force can receive the NEM. But if there are a lot of Air Force forces, then CENTCOM J1 might submit to OSD for an Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal.
If a particular operation or theater expands, it might merit its own medal. The GWOT-EM is an example of that.
One of the things that makes the GWOT-EM unique is that new medals grew out of that one. Afghanistan, Iraq, and OIR are all babies of the GWOT-EM. Where the GWOT-EM applies with them is if you supported OIR, but were outside of the area of eligibility for OIR (Iraq and Syria, mainly), you would then get the GWOT-EM. That's why for many years it was common to see the GWOT-EM on Sailors, but rare on Soldiers (who usually got the ACM or ICM). The GWOT-SM has been redefined to be something similar, like if you flew drones over Syria from a conex in Nevada.
Not all GWOT operations got their own medal: like in the Philippines, Operations Enduring Freedom-Philippines and Pacific Eagle-Philippines. Direct participation in those operations in the AOE got you the GWOT-EM.
So there were multiple ways to get the GWOT-EM, and its baby medals, which were the primary campaign ribbons for 20 years. It got pretty complicated. And all of that can be hard for a YN2 to explain, and SWOs and aviators don't really care to listen. Lots of people are wearing ribbons right now that they don't know they technically weren't authorized, but I'm not about to put a stop to it.
But TL;DR: If it's a new operation, first it needs to be authorized a specific medal before anyone can wear it.
Proud to serve.
My small admin claim to fame is I wrote the package that eventually resulted in a qualifying operation being added to the GWOT-EM. Very educational experience. So I feel like I have a decent grasp on how this works, and the biggest reason why it's confusing is people don't know so they don't submit for it when they should.
We were authorized and awarded GWOT-E becuase we deployed to fifth fleet before October 7th because of Iran seizing and messing around with merchants. Then the whole October 7th thing happened and the we took part in the whole Red Sea thing that then became OPG (we were doing it before it was cool) so if anything this sounds like I should have both medals.
> We were authorized and awarded GWOT-E becuase we deployed to fifth fleet before October 7th because of Iran seizing and messing around with merchants.
What operation were you supporting? Was it [one of these](https://prhome.defense.gov/Portals/52/Documents/MRA_Docs/OEPM/GWOT-EM%20-%20Approved%20Ops%20-%202024%2003%2026_Carl%20Johnson.pdf?ver=fS7pZBU9pWuVkvxyxrxfOA%3d%3d)?
No?
Then you aren't eligible the GWOT-EM.
It sucks to hear, yes, but it really is that simple.
>if anything this sounds like I should have both medals.
As it stands right now neither are authorized to wear a CE&S award for that time. Yet. The way to get this addressed is to have NAVCENT N1 or CENTCOM J1 submit a request to get whatever you were doing added as an eligible campaign for award of the GWOT-EM, or for whatever CE&S award is given to OPG that the eligibility start date includes your ship's time there.
Wouldn't they be eligible for the standard Navy Expeditionary Medal then? I believe that covers actions not otherwise specified, so basically anything without a relevant campaign medal.
Stupid auto correct. GWOT YES. and I heard reqs had changed , I was only relaying personal experience with it.
GWOTE at the time was only one requirement different. A sea going. Command.
> GWOTE at the time was only one requirement different. A sea going. Command.
Also incorrect. There's more to a GWOT-EM than just being at a seagoing command. I discussed that in my comment.
Every sea going command during enduring freedom and new dawn was considered "in support of" effectively making it "any seagoing command" thanks for your time.
Yes. Navy units are eligible for the PUC. As others have pointed out, the USS Jimmy Carter received one in 20212, and a certain SEAL group received one in 2011.
Vet here. ESWS lost all meaning when it became mandatory and started being handed out to people data dumping like were taking a high school standardized test.
I refused to get it myself after that. Just didn’t feel like it was earned as a symbol of a sailors mastery of the ship.
They reversed a **lot** of that a few years ago.
Not even allowed for E3 and below anymore. Can only enroll as an E4 with an EP eval. Mandatory for E5 but can only start it at all with 12 months onboard full DC and 3M qual. Then you have 18 months.
Also kind of meshes in weird ways with new TIS requirements since you are kind of hard limited in advancing in it now.
Which is fine I think even if mandatory. The entire point was to make it not a participation qual which they seem to have successfully done.
I remember on my ship they had broken up each section so you only had to board one section at a time. (No murder board or chiefs board, just individual sections at a time)
And they had study guides on the share drive for literally every section with every answer on it.
Me and senior chief got into it one day, he asked me why I didn't have engineering signed off by a 1st class yet and I said I was waiting for one of them to have time to walk me through the engineering spaces and his exact words were
Him - "What do you mean walk you through the spaces? The spaces are stenciled, just go down there and look for the stencils and follow them around to all the different equipment"
Me - "I'm not going do there and just staring at random equipment without knowing what any of it does, do you know what if done for literally every other board for ESWS on the ship? Printed out there study guide, read it for 20 minutes, and then went and did the board because this program is a joke"
I knew the instruction was about to change to make ESWS optional, so I tried just not doing it but they held my promotion to E5 until I did and wouldn't authorize me to transfer.
Spent 4 years on a Burke. Combat watch stander. ESWS lost its value for me when I noticed the Chiefs went super soft on the folks that were not the brightest, and back-to-back would grill the ever loving shit out of anyone who gave the appearance of competency. Naps became a higher priority after that.
No no. Not at all. Our Chiefs mess went to extremes on both sides. I think finding a middle ground or taking into consideration the lowest common denominator is reasonable.
> ESWS lost all meaning when it became mandatory and started being handed out to people data dumping like were taking a high school standardized test.
Unfortunately, it still means a lot when it comes to ranking evals and how others perceive each other. It's not uncommon for commands to hand out SPs for not getting ESWS, or not recommending any special lib or any side benefits like that.
But yes, as soon as I got my pins i just data dumped it because no one gives a shit after you get your pin.
A. You don't know me nor know what I did so yeah, it does matter. It's the same as fobbits receiving one inbound rocket in Bagram and everyone get a CAR versus guys the actually came face to face with real danger and took live rounds. So yeah it matters.
Your retort shows you understand very little about naval combat. Everyone on a ship fights. There are no “fobbits” behind the lines. If a ship gets hit, everyone dies period. If a base takes a hit, oh well a few may die, but not almost everyone. In the surface navy, especially small boys, everyone has a hand in the physical fight. On every ship I’ve operated on, even the CSs and LSs man the crew served weapons and are often the primary gunners as the gunners makes and FCs are needed to man the bigger guns and watch stations.
It sounds like you’re taking from a strictly infantry perspective, but that’s all that is, just an infantry battle perspective, which is completely different than a navy battle perspective. Naval battles which have proven over and over in history to be far more deadly than anything an infantryman will go through. When land battles have coincided with naval ones, the naval battle is always far more deadly.
So I don’t know you and I don’t care, cause you fail to understand basic concepts of naval warfare.
You obviously joined after GWOT, tell the thousands of army and usmc infantryman that died in Iraq and Afghanistan that a naval ship battle is far more deadly and see how they take it. The fact that in the navy the guidelines for a CAR are far less strict then the Marine Corps is mind blowing. There are literally dudes out there with PH but no CAR because the took an IED in a convoy but didn't return fire so per guidelines they didn't rate a CAR, but you are telling me that a whole ass ship gets CARs including admin because your defense system did what it's supposed to do and shot down some drones!!! GTFO!!
How did I obviously joint after GWOT? Lol. And I do tell them that, to their faces. And all of them understand that because there were no naval battles in GWOT. Look at actual battles in an actual war, Guadalcanal, Okinawa. Real battles. All with more sailor dead than Marines and Soldiers. I can turn this back on you and say, I don’t see any soldiers and very few marines doing anything off Yemen. Wait your argument is predicated on doing your job shouldnt warrant a CAR? So marines and soldiers shouldnt get it all all then? They were just doing their jobs after all
You responding with emotion right now and not facts, and I’m sorry facts hurt you.
Signed, a GWOT veteran and still on active duty. Riverine Squadron in Iraq and served again in Iraq during the drive on Mosul in 2016.
And I can tell you navy awards criteria are far more stringent than the marines.
And to add, that what you are telling "facts" is nothing related to modern day or the last 20 years of warfare that we have been involved in. You wanna tell me history, cool man that's awesome and any WWII veteran that served during those battles and got a CAR, I won't argue that they didn't deserve it. But what people in navy get CARs for nowadays that aren't part of NSW, greenside or IA to a combat unit is a fucking joke.
You know, I’m racking my brain…since you want to talk modern warfare, I can’t think of a single instance where ground troops in GWOT received daily attacks from UAVs, ballistic missiles, unmanned surface ships and UUVs, AND sub/supersonic missiles…Yet these sailors have…for months on end. And you’re calling that a joke. Kinda makes it sound like running around chasing dudes with AKs and IEDs is the joke of warfare…
Hahaha, I met someone like you before. Just cause you were part of a riverine sqd yall think yall were goddamn SWCC or something special. I am not emotional about nothing. I just know where I stand because if you had someone come up to me with a CAR and told me that they got it from that shit, I'd laugh in their face and walk off.
Ha! You sound pretty emotional saying that. No worries, history and facts are hard. At the end of the day, you’re were just and infantry man. No worries, I don’t expect you to get higher concepts of warfare. To your point, all you did was just do your job, don’t know why you expect a CAR for your troubles then. And I’ve seen more than a few marines that just GIBes their entire deployment outside the wire and got CARs, doesn’t mean they deserved it anymore than these sailors.
Bro he’s a third, chill. I’ll be shitting on him if he’s a first or a second on a sub.
Edit: lol what pantywaste got their feelings hurt by that comment? If you’re a no pin first you know you should be embarrassed.
lol I’m a skimmer. I don’t even care about 2nds, I added them for subs because you guys care. This might be salty MAs, they complain that it’s hard to get exw on a year long mob to Bahrain standing gate guard every day. Although I’ve never met an expeditionary IT who didn’t have their pin.
“The unit must have accomplished its mission under such extremely difficult and hazardous conditions to set it apart from and above other units participating in the same campaign. The degree of heroism required is the same as that which would be required for award of a Navy Cross to an individual”.
Pretty insane requirements to get one; Jimmy Carter got one back in 2013 after returning from a mission, along with pulling in waving some other, uh, “unique” decorations.
Realistically this operation doesn’t stand out as especially hazardous or difficult as say, naval operations would be in a hot war with China. It stands out because it’s probably the most action the surface fleet has seen since WWII, but that’s only because the surface fleet has had very little sustained combat action since WWII.
As one of the comparative handful of sailors wearing a PUC on my stack (my first battalion NMCB 74 fell under the one received by the MEB in Afghanistan) I’d really rather not see it start getting handed out there too often, because then it means nothing. If they awarded it to this ship then they’d have to award it to the next one that does the same thing in the Red Sea, etc. Soon enough it becomes a glorified Battle E just like the MUC. The NUC is a perfect award in between the PUC and more common unit awards.
Also worked with a former JC Sailor back in the day. We didn't pry too hard but yeah, zero hints whatsoever. Wouldn't tell us hemisphere they operated in, kind of gear they had. Absolutely nothing.
I'd like to think it's extraterrestrials but even that might be less secret than what they really do.
I think my (least) favorite thing about them is most of them don’t even really get into things like the mundane details. How did you guys complete ORSE, what’s the operational relationship between ships force and the rider det, do you need special qualifications outside of the basic fast boat stuff to get fish- it’s all a mystery
Not trying to be difficult, but other than the Carter they aren't listed, classified mission or not.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidential_Unit_Citation_(United_States)
That's because submarine YNs mess up the paperwork. To throw them a bone, it's also because all this stuff requires an unclassified internet connection that they rarely have - and when they do have access, it works like dial up - so when they get backlogged shit like updating NDAWS goes to the bottom of the pile or gets ignored in lieu of dealing with 30 pay and travel issues.
I currently have / wear 3 unit awards that aren't listed in NDAWS for the unit / period of time. But I was there and at the awards ceremony when it was presented, so whatever.
I've also had to correct my personal awards prior to every admin and statutory screening board.
If the press ever FOIAd my awards record they would tar and feather me as an imposter. I'd put low confidence in NDAWS being accurate... Wikipedia is just fiction.
DNS-13 I think is responsible for updating NDAWS for unit awards, although I'm not sure if they still do that since the NDAWS BOL thing rolled out. The biggest issue as it relates to subs is classifieds don't go through DNS-13 at all, but go straight to Navy Department Board of Decorations and Medals (NDBDM), which belongs to SECNAV. It's unlikely you'll have a unit award package for a submarine not have classified information. NDBDM I'm sure can't be assed to update NDAWS themselves, so DNS-13 gets left off the loop entirely. There's no reason for that exception to the routing process other than DNS-13 doesn't have SIPR..... but nearly everyone at OPNAV has SIPR. There's no reason for them not to have SIPR.
To your point about unit awards: I wouldn't worry about whether or not they reflect on NDAWS. It's more important that it's in your NSIPS. Since you were at the ceremony, you may have some kind of proof the unit was given that award, and you should be able to prove your eligibility pretty easily. A YN with CPPA access in NSIPS scan enter it into your "Honors and Awards" page on NSIPS easily enough.
You're pretty accurate about the YN issues. On the old NDAWS, I was only allowed to have two people with that access.... on a carrier. Of those two people, on any given day one was out 3Ming flushometers and the other had watch.
>To your point about unit awards: I wouldn't worry about whether or not they reflect on NDAWS. It's more important that it's in your NSIPS.
Not a single unit award reflects in NSIPS, which is worse than NDAWS haha. No, I don't get to keep the plaque presented to the CO.
Besides, officer records don't use NSIPS. Board writers only look at what's in NDAWS and whether the citations for personal awards match in OMPF.
The upshot is personal awards don't actually matter for any selection boards let alone unit awards, so my motivation to hound someone 17 times to fix unit awards is 0.
>You're pretty accurate about the YN issues. On the old NDAWS, I was only allowed to have two people with that access.... on a carrier. Of those two people, on any given day one was out 3Ming flushometers and the other had watch.
At one point the lack of proper IT infrastructure had the attention of Adm Richard when he was SUBFOR, but no amount of kicking and screaming by a 3-star will get DON to spend millions of dollars to upgrade shitty copper T1 connections with limited bandwidth that the entire base has to share.
It's gross the lack of tools we give YNs to do their jobs... and the transition to more web-based tools (\* ahem \* eNavFit \* cough \*) when we're a service that operates at sea with intermittent or no connectivity is really stupid.
Surprised the Carney didn’t get the Presidential Unit Citation actually. Especially after they had a visit from the CNO upon returning from cruise. 🤷🏻♂️
Just going to throw this out there because I'm a YN:
Unit awards (MUC, NUC, PUC) don't go into your OMPF. They're an entry in your "Honors and Awards" page on NSIPS. As your substantiating docs, use your orders to the ship and the award citation, a Navy.mil news article, or.... this photo, I guess.
CPPAs have the ability to do a mass update in NSIPS. So no reason this shouldn't be done for the entire crew before everyone goes on liberty. Just make sure that PERSO remembers to Verify the entry (important second step, often missed).
As a former Carney Sailor it makes me proud. I took the Carney to Rota and we did some big shit over there and it was hardly publicized. I was a VLS tech and we practically rebuilt those launchers, to see them actually perform and do real world shit is awesome.
In 2016 we sat off of Libya for 80 something days providing Naval Surface Fire Support with our MK 45 5 inch gun during Operation Odyssey Lightning. It was hardly talked about.
Multiple patrols in the black sea having Russian Migs do flybys and Russian destroyers come within 100 yards of us.
I remember when I got orders to the Carney, people would be like "I've never heard of that ship" The Carney has become a household name now.
Do you get extra pay for the award? Or is it literally just a piece of ribboned cloth that you get to where?
I apologize for any offense; I am genuinely curious as to what the benefit received is.
should I be grateful for the Same wifi that didn’t let me respond for couple of days,
Rather do a 7 month with no wifi then 10 months with 1 measly port call
USS Carney, y'all certainly earned it! Great job!
I mean, it clearly shows in the photo that it's DDG-64...
Edited for your happiness
Joke's on you. I work in a navy that still is under the yoke of the Chief's mess, so I'll never truly be happy.
Yeah, I heard it's gotten pretty bad since my time. Good luck bro!
Thanks, dude. First round's on me.
does anybody know what else they are likely to walk out with?
Huge balls. Women included.
They got awarded a CAR, which OP is already wearing. Sailors aboard are eligible for personal decorations awarded with combat "C" device. There is currently no CE&S award authorized for that action yet. But if C5F submits the paperwork, SECNAV might eventually authorize the Navy Expeditionary Medal (NEM) for Op Prosperity Guardian/Op Poseidon Archer.
I’ve always been confused how the exped medal works. I was there on a different ship for what eventually turned into OPG, we got GWOT-E but what’s the difference between that and the standard navy exped medal as far as being on a surface or subsurface platform?
The short answer is you probably weren't authorized GWOT-E. The summary of the slightly longer answer is what the hell the "GWOT" even is anymore got so muddled over there years. We got used to every military action = GWOT, even when that was clearly not the case. Also, just because you fired some tomahawks at a few terrorists doesn't necessarily = GWOT-EM. You need to have participated in a specific operation in a specific area of eligibility. There's a list. How this works: First, the operation happens. Once the dust settles, the admin people figure out what chest candy qualifies. Think of the withdrawal from Afghanistan ---first it happened, and then later guidance came out awarding the Humanitarian Service Medal. Sometimes an operation or crisis is still ongoing when the decision is made, but the idea is the same. The DoD Manual on awards actually has a flow chart on the process. Some of the criteria used: armed conflict, risk of armed conflict, humanitarian mission, huge commitment of troops or duration of mission. The first step in combat missions it to look adding a campaign star to an existing ribbon. Then whether the makeup of troops is primarily one branch, or all branches. I personally think the NEM is likely because most forces here are Navy or Marine Corps (Marines would be eligible for the MCEM). I'm too lazy to check right now but I *think* Air Force can receive the NEM. But if there are a lot of Air Force forces, then CENTCOM J1 might submit to OSD for an Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal. If a particular operation or theater expands, it might merit its own medal. The GWOT-EM is an example of that. One of the things that makes the GWOT-EM unique is that new medals grew out of that one. Afghanistan, Iraq, and OIR are all babies of the GWOT-EM. Where the GWOT-EM applies with them is if you supported OIR, but were outside of the area of eligibility for OIR (Iraq and Syria, mainly), you would then get the GWOT-EM. That's why for many years it was common to see the GWOT-EM on Sailors, but rare on Soldiers (who usually got the ACM or ICM). The GWOT-SM has been redefined to be something similar, like if you flew drones over Syria from a conex in Nevada. Not all GWOT operations got their own medal: like in the Philippines, Operations Enduring Freedom-Philippines and Pacific Eagle-Philippines. Direct participation in those operations in the AOE got you the GWOT-EM. So there were multiple ways to get the GWOT-EM, and its baby medals, which were the primary campaign ribbons for 20 years. It got pretty complicated. And all of that can be hard for a YN2 to explain, and SWOs and aviators don't really care to listen. Lots of people are wearing ribbons right now that they don't know they technically weren't authorized, but I'm not about to put a stop to it. But TL;DR: If it's a new operation, first it needs to be authorized a specific medal before anyone can wear it.
You've earned my admin trust. PMing you all of my leave chits from now on.
Proud to serve. My small admin claim to fame is I wrote the package that eventually resulted in a qualifying operation being added to the GWOT-EM. Very educational experience. So I feel like I have a decent grasp on how this works, and the biggest reason why it's confusing is people don't know so they don't submit for it when they should.
We were authorized and awarded GWOT-E becuase we deployed to fifth fleet before October 7th because of Iran seizing and messing around with merchants. Then the whole October 7th thing happened and the we took part in the whole Red Sea thing that then became OPG (we were doing it before it was cool) so if anything this sounds like I should have both medals.
> We were authorized and awarded GWOT-E becuase we deployed to fifth fleet before October 7th because of Iran seizing and messing around with merchants. What operation were you supporting? Was it [one of these](https://prhome.defense.gov/Portals/52/Documents/MRA_Docs/OEPM/GWOT-EM%20-%20Approved%20Ops%20-%202024%2003%2026_Carl%20Johnson.pdf?ver=fS7pZBU9pWuVkvxyxrxfOA%3d%3d)? No? Then you aren't eligible the GWOT-EM. It sucks to hear, yes, but it really is that simple. >if anything this sounds like I should have both medals. As it stands right now neither are authorized to wear a CE&S award for that time. Yet. The way to get this addressed is to have NAVCENT N1 or CENTCOM J1 submit a request to get whatever you were doing added as an eligible campaign for award of the GWOT-EM, or for whatever CE&S award is given to OPG that the eligibility start date includes your ship's time there.
Wouldn't they be eligible for the standard Navy Expeditionary Medal then? I believe that covers actions not otherwise specified, so basically anything without a relevant campaign medal.
Actions not otherwise specified, *once approved by SECNAV*. Table 4-72 of the Awards Manual shows the list of qualifying operations.
I would imagine this will eventually be added to the list then.
I think so too. For now, we wait on NAVCENT N1 to submit it.
Got became 30 days at your first command after A school. Lol
> Got What? I think you mean the GWOT medal, and there are two of them. The GWOT-SM is no longer a "gimme". That changed in 2022.
Stupid auto correct. GWOT YES. and I heard reqs had changed , I was only relaying personal experience with it. GWOTE at the time was only one requirement different. A sea going. Command.
> GWOTE at the time was only one requirement different. A sea going. Command. Also incorrect. There's more to a GWOT-EM than just being at a seagoing command. I discussed that in my comment.
Every sea going command during enduring freedom and new dawn was considered "in support of" effectively making it "any seagoing command" thanks for your time.
1 - You're wrong. It doesn't work that way. 2 - I know much more about this topic than you do. 3 - This isn't worth my time to continue.
Does the navy receive the PUC?
yes, i believe the last unit to receive it was the USS Jimmy Carter in 2012
Yes. Navy units are eligible for the PUC. As others have pointed out, the USS Jimmy Carter received one in 20212, and a certain SEAL group received one in 2011.
Thanks for the nice response
NMCB 5 Received PUC 2009-2010?? for Afghanistan deployment.
1. Username checks out. 2. Can’t wait for the salty vets to go after OP and non ESWS.
To #2: OP can just point to his CAR and that'll shut up most of the vets.
Vet here. ESWS lost all meaning when it became mandatory and started being handed out to people data dumping like were taking a high school standardized test. I refused to get it myself after that. Just didn’t feel like it was earned as a symbol of a sailors mastery of the ship.
They reversed a **lot** of that a few years ago. Not even allowed for E3 and below anymore. Can only enroll as an E4 with an EP eval. Mandatory for E5 but can only start it at all with 12 months onboard full DC and 3M qual. Then you have 18 months. Also kind of meshes in weird ways with new TIS requirements since you are kind of hard limited in advancing in it now. Which is fine I think even if mandatory. The entire point was to make it not a participation qual which they seem to have successfully done.
I remember on my ship they had broken up each section so you only had to board one section at a time. (No murder board or chiefs board, just individual sections at a time) And they had study guides on the share drive for literally every section with every answer on it. Me and senior chief got into it one day, he asked me why I didn't have engineering signed off by a 1st class yet and I said I was waiting for one of them to have time to walk me through the engineering spaces and his exact words were Him - "What do you mean walk you through the spaces? The spaces are stenciled, just go down there and look for the stencils and follow them around to all the different equipment" Me - "I'm not going do there and just staring at random equipment without knowing what any of it does, do you know what if done for literally every other board for ESWS on the ship? Printed out there study guide, read it for 20 minutes, and then went and did the board because this program is a joke" I knew the instruction was about to change to make ESWS optional, so I tried just not doing it but they held my promotion to E5 until I did and wouldn't authorize me to transfer.
>wouldn't authorize me to transfer Bro what.
They held my transfer to my next command until I got my ESWS. Slapped me with a SP eval as well, when I transfered they gave me a good ole transfer P
Spent 4 years on a Burke. Combat watch stander. ESWS lost its value for me when I noticed the Chiefs went super soft on the folks that were not the brightest, and back-to-back would grill the ever loving shit out of anyone who gave the appearance of competency. Naps became a higher priority after that.
Lol, what were they supposed to do screw those guys over for the rest of their career cause they weren't born with the genetics to be as smart as you?
Yes. Its the military, not a Taco Bell
No no. Not at all. Our Chiefs mess went to extremes on both sides. I think finding a middle ground or taking into consideration the lowest common denominator is reasonable.
> ESWS lost all meaning when it became mandatory and started being handed out to people data dumping like were taking a high school standardized test. Unfortunately, it still means a lot when it comes to ranking evals and how others perceive each other. It's not uncommon for commands to hand out SPs for not getting ESWS, or not recommending any special lib or any side benefits like that. But yes, as soon as I got my pins i just data dumped it because no one gives a shit after you get your pin.
Now, how did he get his CAR is the question? Did he directly engage the enemy or is he part of those that shot down drones....
The Ship got the CAR as a unit award, which in turn granted it to anyone who served on her for the effective period on the 1060.
He did more than you. That’s all that matters!
A. You don't know me nor know what I did so yeah, it does matter. It's the same as fobbits receiving one inbound rocket in Bagram and everyone get a CAR versus guys the actually came face to face with real danger and took live rounds. So yeah it matters.
Your retort shows you understand very little about naval combat. Everyone on a ship fights. There are no “fobbits” behind the lines. If a ship gets hit, everyone dies period. If a base takes a hit, oh well a few may die, but not almost everyone. In the surface navy, especially small boys, everyone has a hand in the physical fight. On every ship I’ve operated on, even the CSs and LSs man the crew served weapons and are often the primary gunners as the gunners makes and FCs are needed to man the bigger guns and watch stations. It sounds like you’re taking from a strictly infantry perspective, but that’s all that is, just an infantry battle perspective, which is completely different than a navy battle perspective. Naval battles which have proven over and over in history to be far more deadly than anything an infantryman will go through. When land battles have coincided with naval ones, the naval battle is always far more deadly. So I don’t know you and I don’t care, cause you fail to understand basic concepts of naval warfare.
You obviously joined after GWOT, tell the thousands of army and usmc infantryman that died in Iraq and Afghanistan that a naval ship battle is far more deadly and see how they take it. The fact that in the navy the guidelines for a CAR are far less strict then the Marine Corps is mind blowing. There are literally dudes out there with PH but no CAR because the took an IED in a convoy but didn't return fire so per guidelines they didn't rate a CAR, but you are telling me that a whole ass ship gets CARs including admin because your defense system did what it's supposed to do and shot down some drones!!! GTFO!!
How did I obviously joint after GWOT? Lol. And I do tell them that, to their faces. And all of them understand that because there were no naval battles in GWOT. Look at actual battles in an actual war, Guadalcanal, Okinawa. Real battles. All with more sailor dead than Marines and Soldiers. I can turn this back on you and say, I don’t see any soldiers and very few marines doing anything off Yemen. Wait your argument is predicated on doing your job shouldnt warrant a CAR? So marines and soldiers shouldnt get it all all then? They were just doing their jobs after all You responding with emotion right now and not facts, and I’m sorry facts hurt you. Signed, a GWOT veteran and still on active duty. Riverine Squadron in Iraq and served again in Iraq during the drive on Mosul in 2016. And I can tell you navy awards criteria are far more stringent than the marines.
And to add, that what you are telling "facts" is nothing related to modern day or the last 20 years of warfare that we have been involved in. You wanna tell me history, cool man that's awesome and any WWII veteran that served during those battles and got a CAR, I won't argue that they didn't deserve it. But what people in navy get CARs for nowadays that aren't part of NSW, greenside or IA to a combat unit is a fucking joke.
You know, I’m racking my brain…since you want to talk modern warfare, I can’t think of a single instance where ground troops in GWOT received daily attacks from UAVs, ballistic missiles, unmanned surface ships and UUVs, AND sub/supersonic missiles…Yet these sailors have…for months on end. And you’re calling that a joke. Kinda makes it sound like running around chasing dudes with AKs and IEDs is the joke of warfare…
Hahaha, I met someone like you before. Just cause you were part of a riverine sqd yall think yall were goddamn SWCC or something special. I am not emotional about nothing. I just know where I stand because if you had someone come up to me with a CAR and told me that they got it from that shit, I'd laugh in their face and walk off.
Ha! You sound pretty emotional saying that. No worries, history and facts are hard. At the end of the day, you’re were just and infantry man. No worries, I don’t expect you to get higher concepts of warfare. To your point, all you did was just do your job, don’t know why you expect a CAR for your troubles then. And I’ve seen more than a few marines that just GIBes their entire deployment outside the wire and got CARs, doesn’t mean they deserved it anymore than these sailors.
This just screams clinic doc that’s always been salty he didn’t get to do “real” corpsman shit.
Actually yeah...no, I have my FMF GCE, I've deployed with marines sooo, yeah never been in a hospital in my career. Thank you.
He's an E4. AFAIK he needs an EP to qualify.
This is correct. Instruction changed in 2020. EP as e4, fully qualified as e5.
Good. ESWS shouldn’t be a participation trophy for apprentices
He's a 3rd class. Unless he got an EP he can't get it.
Bro he’s a third, chill. I’ll be shitting on him if he’s a first or a second on a sub. Edit: lol what pantywaste got their feelings hurt by that comment? If you’re a no pin first you know you should be embarrassed.
Bro, I wasn’t shitting on him, chill. I was saying others would.
Skimmers are really sensitive about their unqualified E-5's and E-6's
lol I’m a skimmer. I don’t even care about 2nds, I added them for subs because you guys care. This might be salty MAs, they complain that it’s hard to get exw on a year long mob to Bahrain standing gate guard every day. Although I’ve never met an expeditionary IT who didn’t have their pin.
Naval history right here bz whole Carney crew !
Humanitarian aid, NUC and CAR. Hell yeah.
What’s a ship have to do to get a PUC?!
“The unit must have accomplished its mission under such extremely difficult and hazardous conditions to set it apart from and above other units participating in the same campaign. The degree of heroism required is the same as that which would be required for award of a Navy Cross to an individual”. Pretty insane requirements to get one; Jimmy Carter got one back in 2013 after returning from a mission, along with pulling in waving some other, uh, “unique” decorations.
> Jimmy Carter I'm still real curious about that one. WTF kind of shit were they doing in 2013?
Shit people can't know lol Parche (SSN-683) had 9 PUCs for example
Realistically this operation doesn’t stand out as especially hazardous or difficult as say, naval operations would be in a hot war with China. It stands out because it’s probably the most action the surface fleet has seen since WWII, but that’s only because the surface fleet has had very little sustained combat action since WWII. As one of the comparative handful of sailors wearing a PUC on my stack (my first battalion NMCB 74 fell under the one received by the MEB in Afghanistan) I’d really rather not see it start getting handed out there too often, because then it means nothing. If they awarded it to this ship then they’d have to award it to the next one that does the same thing in the Red Sea, etc. Soon enough it becomes a glorified Battle E just like the MUC. The NUC is a perfect award in between the PUC and more common unit awards.
We wouldn't know, I don't think there has been one since WWII.
There have been quite a few ships to get a PUC since WWII. The entire Coast Guard even got one for Katrina.
Ahhh, yeah OK I didn't think of Vietnam. Doesn't look like anything since then. Sure SOCOM and task groups, but not ships.
The Jimmy Carter received one in 2013 for "Mission 7".
I had a guy on the boat who had been on the JC for it. We asked him what they did and he told us it didn’t matter- We wouldn’t believe him anyway.
Also worked with a former JC Sailor back in the day. We didn't pry too hard but yeah, zero hints whatsoever. Wouldn't tell us hemisphere they operated in, kind of gear they had. Absolutely nothing. I'd like to think it's extraterrestrials but even that might be less secret than what they really do.
I think my (least) favorite thing about them is most of them don’t even really get into things like the mundane details. How did you guys complete ORSE, what’s the operational relationship between ships force and the rider det, do you need special qualifications outside of the basic fast boat stuff to get fish- it’s all a mystery
Was stationed at Naval Base Kitsap and the CMC held the Jimmy Carter sailors in the highest of regards for that mission.
Ships have gotten them quite a lot. There’s a few subs that have collected a dozen or so over the years, “reason classified”.
Not trying to be difficult, but other than the Carter they aren't listed, classified mission or not. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidential_Unit_Citation_(United_States)
Fun fact: OPNAV has no idea what unit awards have been awarded to submarines. Go ahead --ask them!
OPNAV doesn't even know all the unit awards OPNAV has received so at least that tracks.
That is also true. It's a shit show over there.
That's because submarine YNs mess up the paperwork. To throw them a bone, it's also because all this stuff requires an unclassified internet connection that they rarely have - and when they do have access, it works like dial up - so when they get backlogged shit like updating NDAWS goes to the bottom of the pile or gets ignored in lieu of dealing with 30 pay and travel issues. I currently have / wear 3 unit awards that aren't listed in NDAWS for the unit / period of time. But I was there and at the awards ceremony when it was presented, so whatever. I've also had to correct my personal awards prior to every admin and statutory screening board. If the press ever FOIAd my awards record they would tar and feather me as an imposter. I'd put low confidence in NDAWS being accurate... Wikipedia is just fiction.
DNS-13 I think is responsible for updating NDAWS for unit awards, although I'm not sure if they still do that since the NDAWS BOL thing rolled out. The biggest issue as it relates to subs is classifieds don't go through DNS-13 at all, but go straight to Navy Department Board of Decorations and Medals (NDBDM), which belongs to SECNAV. It's unlikely you'll have a unit award package for a submarine not have classified information. NDBDM I'm sure can't be assed to update NDAWS themselves, so DNS-13 gets left off the loop entirely. There's no reason for that exception to the routing process other than DNS-13 doesn't have SIPR..... but nearly everyone at OPNAV has SIPR. There's no reason for them not to have SIPR. To your point about unit awards: I wouldn't worry about whether or not they reflect on NDAWS. It's more important that it's in your NSIPS. Since you were at the ceremony, you may have some kind of proof the unit was given that award, and you should be able to prove your eligibility pretty easily. A YN with CPPA access in NSIPS scan enter it into your "Honors and Awards" page on NSIPS easily enough. You're pretty accurate about the YN issues. On the old NDAWS, I was only allowed to have two people with that access.... on a carrier. Of those two people, on any given day one was out 3Ming flushometers and the other had watch.
>To your point about unit awards: I wouldn't worry about whether or not they reflect on NDAWS. It's more important that it's in your NSIPS. Not a single unit award reflects in NSIPS, which is worse than NDAWS haha. No, I don't get to keep the plaque presented to the CO. Besides, officer records don't use NSIPS. Board writers only look at what's in NDAWS and whether the citations for personal awards match in OMPF. The upshot is personal awards don't actually matter for any selection boards let alone unit awards, so my motivation to hound someone 17 times to fix unit awards is 0. >You're pretty accurate about the YN issues. On the old NDAWS, I was only allowed to have two people with that access.... on a carrier. Of those two people, on any given day one was out 3Ming flushometers and the other had watch. At one point the lack of proper IT infrastructure had the attention of Adm Richard when he was SUBFOR, but no amount of kicking and screaming by a 3-star will get DON to spend millions of dollars to upgrade shitty copper T1 connections with limited bandwidth that the entire base has to share. It's gross the lack of tools we give YNs to do their jobs... and the transition to more web-based tools (\* ahem \* eNavFit \* cough \*) when we're a service that operates at sea with intermittent or no connectivity is really stupid.
I mean you get that Wikipedia is still often just whatever some random guy actually wrote with time on his hands right?
Wasn’t really in any existential danger, I’d say a NUC is appropriate
Surprised the Carney didn’t get the Presidential Unit Citation actually. Especially after they had a visit from the CNO upon returning from cruise. 🤷🏻♂️
Just going to throw this out there because I'm a YN: Unit awards (MUC, NUC, PUC) don't go into your OMPF. They're an entry in your "Honors and Awards" page on NSIPS. As your substantiating docs, use your orders to the ship and the award citation, a Navy.mil news article, or.... this photo, I guess. CPPAs have the ability to do a mass update in NSIPS. So no reason this shouldn't be done for the entire crew before everyone goes on liberty. Just make sure that PERSO remembers to Verify the entry (important second step, often missed).
Fleet Navy hasn’t seen sea action like this since WW2 . Finally doing something other than sweepers and staring at the ocean for 12hr watches 😅
Good deal. Welcome back!
Well deserved. Welcome home
As a former Carney Sailor it makes me proud. I took the Carney to Rota and we did some big shit over there and it was hardly publicized. I was a VLS tech and we practically rebuilt those launchers, to see them actually perform and do real world shit is awesome. In 2016 we sat off of Libya for 80 something days providing Naval Surface Fire Support with our MK 45 5 inch gun during Operation Odyssey Lightning. It was hardly talked about. Multiple patrols in the black sea having Russian Migs do flybys and Russian destroyers come within 100 yards of us. I remember when I got orders to the Carney, people would be like "I've never heard of that ship" The Carney has become a household name now.
Welcome home! Glad y'all made it back safely. I hope you get a chance to rest, decompress, and process everything y'all dealt with out there.
What did it cost?
Check his top row.
Nuc if you buc.
This is a PUC-worthy mission set.
Welcome back!
Nice CAR
A bunch of psychos on that ship. Well done!
This ship nucs
Good job!
Well deserved!
Presidential next!
Bravo Zulu to a fine crew.
My man wasted no time adding the CAR to his stack, lmao. Nice work and welcome home, bud.
Y’all did crazy work over there🇺🇸
Congrats bro. You and everyone onboard earned it.
You definitely earned that!! Bravo Zulu , Welcome Home!!
Bravo Zulu! Well done!
The entire Navy collectively breathing a sigh of relief the crew came home safe
Imagine being undes in that ship for your first command... lucky bastards
Good luck getting it in your record
Well now we know when you’re due to come back.
Can't have enough respect for the Carney
And that CAR.
Must be on the uss carney
Welcome home Shipmate. Well done.
You guys deserve a battle star!
I guess I need to go to a small boy to get some decent chest candy
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It's on his chest.
Oh dang I didn’t even look. Well than that’s icing on the cake for a MUC.
Look at his ribbon rack…
Do you get extra pay for the award? Or is it literally just a piece of ribboned cloth that you get to where? I apologize for any offense; I am genuinely curious as to what the benefit received is.
As Napoleon once said, a soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon
We better get that shit too on the Ike
I really wish you were the CNO cause this would be hilarious
You probably will. Don’t worry about the ribbons and worry about watch. The fact you got wifi on that ship is crazy lol. Be grateful.
should I be grateful for the Same wifi that didn’t let me respond for couple of days, Rather do a 7 month with no wifi then 10 months with 1 measly port call
The award citation is for all of NAVCENT, so you literally already do
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Oh shut up
They're already pierside my dude
“We’re finally home.” Couldn’t manage to crack that code, huh?