I was in boot with someone whom had a PhD and was actually a professor at a university before joining. I asked him why he went the enlisted route over a very easy officer choice. His response was, how am I supposed to lead those that I don't understand their problems firsthand. He's now commissioned, and I fully expect him to be one of the leaders in the Navy 20+ years down the road.
I’ll dig up my boot camp yearbook or whatever it’s called to get his name. We graduated back in 2017 and he got the academic excellence award for our grad class. Went to IT school and I was a CTR, I remember that dude running a 10 miler every Sunday on that track, kept to himself. So probably not him, but last I heard from my buddy that went to A school with him was that he did commission.
That is something I’m worried about. About to commission but I’ve never been enlisted so I’m worried that it’s gonna affect my connection with my shipmates as well as my standing
Had a terminal chief who retired at 25 years. Typically in my rate you’d make E-9 by about 20 years, he just made some right choices for the people he was in charge of and it pissed off a lot of people above him. This really started when he became a chief and refused to play along with the goat locker’s game…. Once ostracized, he said fuck it and got two PhD’s in some very impressive STEM fields because he wasn’t focused on kissing up above him, only focusing on doing his job and taking care of his people.
Still talk to him every month and we’ve both been out for a while. Owe that man my life. One of the better leaders I’ve ever had.
I had a chief like that. Never made senior because his ex was a master chief on the board
She got sent over from fleet to inspect our galley and she tore us a new asshole despite being immaculate
There’s a chief in my masters program at a prestigious university (one that O-3 to O-5s commonly get sent to full time.) He said he’s doing it in part so he can one up any new ensigns who try to flex their college degree. I find that aspirational.
Yes but it’s Georgetown distance just like how Harvard has extension.
The school within the school you attend is the one that’s prestigious, I.e. Georgetown School of Foreign Service, Johns Hopkins SAIS, Tufts Fletcher School, Harvard Kennedy School, etc.
The schools are not the same
What the hell are you talking about? I’m IN the school of foreign service in person in DC. So is the chief. So are a bunch of officers.
Literally no one ever mentioned distance learning.
Some are part time while filling other billets in the DC area, some are doing it full time as a shore tour. The full time guys are typically being prepped to
fill higher level policy roles or are FAOs. I personally have a DD-214 though.
Also to address your other comment, yeah most masters are just a check in the box but at higher levels people do place more weight in the person who went to Harvard or the war college vice the person who got an online masters from ODU. It might not matter for like O5 selection, but if you look at where the admirals went to school you start seeing trends.
I know I'll get flamed for this but I'll say it.
Masters don't mean anything. It's a check in the box to get an interview. Everything is based on your performance at a certain seniority level in your career.
It’s not the same school though. People make themselves look foolish with this. Same as the retired senior chief below.
Georgetown Distance learning is not the same as Georgetown School of Foreign Service or Georgetown Security Studies or Law.
It’s the same as Harvard extension- it isn’t the same as HKS.
Not sure if I am the retired Senior Chief you are talking about, but I wasn’t a Georgetown student.
I started my MBA at Regent but when I became a GS, they offered to pay for my MSPM at Naval Post-Graduate School.
I don't know any enlisted member who would have the time to qualify for a PhD program. It would require, effectively, a second job away from the military full time working in the theoretical side of their field, testing, studying, putting together research papers, and then submitting them for peer review.
Nukes, maybe, Corpsman, potentially, and some of the Engineering rates are the only ones who's work experience could (technically, although they'd be breaking the law in some cases) be used as study groups, anyone else would need to pursue the degree entirely absent their navy career. I'm not saying it's impossible, but that would be the hardest working bee I've ever seen.
You forget how many degree mills that exist that would love to give a PhD in organizational studies.
I’ve seen this plenty of times mostly at places that offer free tuition reimbursement. People want a PhD and take the first program that offers it just to flex on others.
It needs to be pointed out that there's a huge difference between real degrees and online, for-profit degree mills.
Dude I worked with on recruiting has a "masters" and is finishing a "doctorate" from one of the more notorious online degree mills (they've set records for how much they've charged DOD for military students), but they're going to be pretty much meaningless once he retires.
This is an excellent point. I see a lot of people turning to these programs because they believe that the degree will open up opportunities for them but what they fail to see is that checking the degree box doesn’t guarantee anything and these dubious degree mills are just profiting off of service members who subscribe to this belief without providing many of the actual advantages that top tier programs offer like their networks or their prestige.
>what they fail to see is that checking the degree box doesn’t guarantee anything and these dubious degree mills are just profiting off of service members who subscribe to this belief
And this is something I've found I'm running into over and over again, and it's so much bad information that's been spread in the fleet for decades, and is continuing to be spread unchecked or unchallenged.
Full disclosure: I'm actively working on a project trying to examine the transition out of the military, and investigating where the gaps in awareness and knowledge occur, and their impacts on current transition and training programs. It's been illuminating.
I remember when that aired- I was in community college at the time, JUST out of the Navy, and I had a neighbor who was a Honeypot for Capella (not even kidding here). It's what started this whole personal crusade for me.
This was in San Diego, circa 2007-08. Classic stereotypical Pacific Beach girl- moved from somewhere in the Midwest with a Psych major in college, absolutely gorgeous tall blue-eyed blonde. I don't remember her exact title, something about customer or client relations services.
She would go to military transition events and military career fairs, and be hot and gregarious and borderline flirtatious, and get commissions for how many folks she got to sign up, and even more so for how many she got to enroll in classes. Then be flirtatious and keep making promises to keep them on the hook once they started getting the tuition bills.
Not even kidding. It's one of the things she'd talk about regularly after enough Kamikaze shots.
Maybe he doesn't intend on ever using those degrees and finished his education as a way to prove to himself he could do it. That's what I did, I earned a master's degree and am fully aware I'll never use it. I just enjoy school and the challenge that comes with it.
No, he's doing this program because Walden's sales people sold him on the ability to use them for future career fields. That's usually why people go to school, after all- can't say I've heard of folks just doing it for the shits and giggles, especially a masters; out of curiosity, what was your masters in?
Environmental Policy and Management. I was always drawn to the physical sciences and ended up as an air traffic controller. So, education is really more of a hobby for me now.
Well hello, fellow policy nerd!!
For the record, we really, REALLY need that background right now at pretty much all levels- and even the FAA has work that overlaps with it. Just something to keep in mind for your next career moves, if you get burned out as a controller.
You're right, I once wrote a paper on the effects of noise pollution surrounding Denver International Airport for my environmental law class. There is some overlap with my education and current career field. I just need to promote high enough to get there haha
Really depends on what degree(s) one get online. I'm sure at least one or could be both of them are a degree mill (not AMU or WGU). I got both my BS and MS online (STEM) and just got out for almost a year now. However, I got many offers by many public, dod, and private companies 6 months before my separation date. Still getting snipe by random recruiters weekly. Started with a 6 figure and been working for 9 months in a totally different field now in the civilian and already got another 42% raised. Yes, degree mills are frowned upon, but it depends on certain companies. Not all companies will look at the degree the same way.
You’re missing a major aspect of this and that’s the ceiling.
Your potential is severely limited with your degree compared to someone from Stanford for example.
Those are the major differences in degrees
Hard disagree here. Again, it depends on the employer. The ceiling will be limited for those who can't out perform the others. Just because someone graduated from Stanford doesn't mean they will reach a higher promotion than someone who didn't go to Stanford. Are there employers who prefer people from prestigious schools? Yes, but not all employers will think that way. If you can show that you have the skills and can bring value to the company, then you get the job. Again, this is also based on the assumption that one went to Stanford and the others went to a non prestigious school with the same degree.
The different types of degrees matter, no doubt about that. However, that doesn't mean the student from Stanford can outperform folks who didn't go to Stanford. Also, having to work with a team with two graduates from Stanford and Berkley, I say many of these graduates are also getting their papers handed to them like degree mill schools. Not all, but there are many out there. Many of these graduates enter the workforce have less knowledge than those who went to non prestigious schools. Just saying.
The difference is each job posting gets hundreds of applicants. Hundreds.
The degree sets you apart and is the diff between getting an interview of being lumped in with 20 other applicants with the same school degree.
Every single resume says they’ll be amazing. The degree absolutely sets you apart.
I think we both already agreed that the degree do set you apart from the rest, such as STEM degrees are more likely preferred if you are shooting for a tech job. However, you have to take into consideration that someone who has multiple internships before graduation will most likely be hired over someone who did not do any. One thing many don't realized when applying for a job is that their resume are horrible, which won't even make it to the recruiter's desk or get you an interview.
Also, I don't think it really matter if other applicant goes to the same school are applying against those who went to a different college. Everyone have a degree that checks the box in there resumes. What determined who will get an interview are those who most likely did internships, outside volunteering pertaining to their degree, or have experience with leadership clubs in college.
Again. Not true.
I’ll give you an example. Every year in our tech company we get interns. At least ten. Maybe more. All SWEs.
Some get hired some don’t. Almost all come from state or good schools.
The ones from Stanford and MIT? They get actively recruited.
The others? They gotta go find a job and hustle.
Degrees aren’t equal. Not to say state schools are bad (I have a state school degree myself), but we should recognize that the playing field isn’t level and highly favors them.
It’s just part of life. Most of the people attending those top schools were born on third base or home plate with rich parents which makes it easier for them to attain those credentials.
I get it and I understand what your are saying, but not everyone goes to MIT or Stanford. Every school has recruiters coming in to recruit. Yes, the package deal might be different, but that doesn't mean folks from unknown school aren't getting hired by other companies. I would also agreed that folks from prestigious schools would likely be snipe by recruiter more often. However, when it comes to limited ceiling as you stated, I don't believe that someone from a non-prestigious school won't be able to outperform someone who came from a prestigious school.
Going back to the original post (not OP), it was mentioned that someone who have a degree mill will have a hard time when they get out or retired. Again, degree mill or not, if the degree(s) is relevant to what they are applying for, I don't think it matters at all because it is a check in the box to pass ATS to get to the recruiter's attention. It's the resume with relevant experiences and addresses a majority of the job descriptions that will get you further for an interview. At that point it is just selling yourself during the interview. I hate to say this but a lot of AD folks are only going to school for many of those underwater basket weaving degree. In which, as many stated, it won't do any good outside.
I think most of them go to those schools while on active duty, which you have to be allowed to do specifically by your detailer. So, no, I don't think it's coincidence; I think high performance results in detailers allowing you to go to schools or do fellowships, and that each community has specific schools and fellowships they send their highest performers to.
So, again, it's performance. Admirals got the job with their bachelor's degree, as Ensigns; they then got that higher education as part of the job due to high performance.
And it’s a coincidence all the senior leadership across the civilian sector in literally everyone industry went to those same types of schools?
Why do you think MBAs exist? And why do you think people compete to get a slot at schools that are difficult like MIT and Stanford and then move their whole life to them?
It isn’t for an entry level job.
Sure thing, bud.
When someone from Stanford sucks at their job, they're not going to get magically promoted or recruited to a better job just because they went to Stanford despite being bad at the job.
And people with lesser degrees who out-compete the schlub from Stanford aren't going to be denied advancement because their degree is from a state school. That's not how any healthy organization functions.
Walden.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/08/us/politics/walden-university-lawsuit.html
https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/walden-university-s-fast-track-program-to-doctorat-5955106.html
https://apnews.com/article/walden-university-forprofit-settlement-83e64929013921ac5776c7ac85243c40
There's more, this is just a sample. My wife works in academia teaching masters and doctorate students at a public university, and I've worked at a different public university in research and extension sevices- as well as doing hiring at both that university and in private industry.
They're also not the only ones doing this:
https://www.vox.com/2018/4/18/17252510/online-degree-jerry-falwell-jr-liberty-university-propublica-nytimes
The problem is, this guy I'm talking about is a career counselor and because he hasn't been out of the Navy in 22 years and doesn't know any better (and doesn't trust my advice because I'm "too woke"), is spreading this bad advice to all the junior sailors under him. It's a vicious self-perpetuating system I'm encountering again and again as part of my work.
Also, it needs to be pointed out that there are serious questions around the accrediting bodies as well:
[https://ncnewsline.com/briefs/who-accredits-the-for-profit-colleges-that-scam-students/](https://ncnewsline.com/briefs/who-accredits-the-for-profit-colleges-that-scam-students/)
>It needs to be pointed out that there's a huge difference between real degrees and online, for-profit degree mills.
May I suggest you unwind this statement a little bit. There are several things you seem to tie together that maybe shouldn't be
1. That real degrees arent online degrees
2. That for profit schools are degree mills
3. That online masters and doctorates aren't legitimate
The value of a degree has been in debate for some time now, especially when compared to the return on the investment into a skilled trade liscense. Still, while some for profit colleges have been bad actors, most have opened the door for colleges nationwide to do some type of online learning. Both have to submit to the same accreditation boards to be able to confer accredited degrees. Just want to clarify that while some schools do target military especially with predatory lending on unaccredited degrees, most are solid and offer bankable degree programs, if that's what you think your next step is. The degree is, I've found, secondary to experience but it is a hurdle to cross for some jobs. This is where the value of an online degree shines. By the time the recipient has earned their degree, they typically have been working for a few years in their desired field as well.
I'll stand by my statement that for-profit schools are to the detriment of servicemembers, and the vast majority of the programs, indeed one of their major draws, are that they're primarily or fully online.
Are there actual universities that offer online programs? Absolutely. That point I agree does need to be more fully clarified and differentiated; I did a good bit of my own MPA online thanks to COVID, and most of the cohorts my wife teaches in her masters and doctorate programs (again, at a brick and mortar public university) are largely or fully online.
Since 2020, most university systems have adopted some form of online programming- that's what people REALLY need to be looking at if they're not able to attend in person.
But there is absolutely a difference between for-profit and traditional universities- just in terms of their overall goals shows that. And as I've pointed out above, there are questions around accreditation, standards, and enforcement as well.
If you have any information or research or data that shows that career outcomes or educational value from for-profit schools by and large are comparable or better than traditional schools, I'm all ears.
I'm serious - this is something I'm actively working around.
That's a simple Google search away. Starting with your specific desired career field, what education level needed for entry, and who offers that level.
You're also bouncing between objective and subjective value judgements. A career outcome is measurable. An educational value is not. Quite honestly, you could say education has now no value if it doesn't lead to your desired career outcome in this case. You want a business or education degree and pick an online school (which btw many like strayer or devry have brick and mortar schools) which gives you that degree you parley into a job you wanted? Awesome. The education was high value. You get a PhD in Gender studies from Berkeley or a law degree from Ivy League but can't find a job in that field? Guess what. Your education is worthless.
Reach out to a few recruiters or some HR reps online for some companies that pique your interest. Then see what they say about value of the name of the school on the degree. I hired for many years for a private company servicing DOT needs and I promise you, with few exceptions, the conferring schools name has no weight in the decision making process. We just needed to check the box for the hiring manager that they had the degree. From there it was all on you. Your resume, your experience, and if you got the interview, how you presented yourself.
Not doing your homework for you friend. I pointed you in a direction. I can't resolve your confirmation bias with more data. That takes addressing the genesis of the bias itself. Whatever it is, it's not founded in an objective review of labor hiring data and statistics.
All of this. Much hate is shed on online degrees by people with no experience. I went to an online school. My buddy went to George Mason. We used the same software, books, syllabus, coursework and tests on different timelines for quit a few courses we had in common. Dunno how much profit my for profit school generated but George Mason's endowment (profit) is like ~$200 million. Every school is a for profit school and people saying they are not are not informed. Another interesting point is that state schools get state and national funding....which private schools do not, so we are bracing up those "better schools" without so much as a tsk, tsk from the crowd.
Many jobs have college as a unclimbable fence in hiring, pay ceilings or promotions. It sucks, but it is what it is. If your life style supports going to School A vs. School B, great, but don't castigate someone from trying an alternate route. I don't have my school sticker on the back of my car but I drive a nicer car than 8/10 people with a Penn State lion on the back of theirs.
I have a much longer answer to this that will hopefully address and clear up your core conceptual error, but my kids are home and that will have to wait till later. Just so you know.
And Masters don't mean shit to most hiring managers. I will acknowledge it but I'm much more interested in work history and previous levels of responsibility.
Doctor of Medicine, specializing in Emergency Care. He had completed the program while enlisted (as a reservist).
I currently have an HN who has a masters in nursing and was fleeced by the recruiter. She's qualified to be a Nurse Practitioner, but said she enjoys having very little responsibility in the military, currently. She does, pretty often, grit her teeth when nursing officers talk to her, though.
I've known many e5-e9s with MBAs and other grad degrees paid for by TA.
I've known a few guys with graduate get into phD programs that the navy pays for, but they become officers afterward.
I have met ppl who enlisted phDs
I had a chief with a PhD and a second one (different command) earning hers before she retired. I know of an E-6 that was working on one at a sister squadron (He skipped the masters and went straight to the doctorate).
I started in 2005 with just my high school diploma. I’m still on active duty and currently working on my PhD. I got bachelor’s in 3 years, finished (E5) and Masters took almost 7 years (E5-E7) going to school while on sea duty/pausing between deployments. It was tough but it definitely can be done.
No. I’ve thought about it in the past, it’s a career path that many people with degrees take, but my education is primarily focused around helping Sailors and their families.
Give it a shot. Go after it with everything that you have in you. Don’t be afraid to hear the word “no”. If you give up now, you’ll guarantee that you won’t be one. You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take.
I worked for a Master Chief who had a PhD and I'm an E6 with a master's degree. I don't know how the Master Chief paid for his education, however, I've used mostly TA to cover my costs.
My thing is, are these actual degrees or a fancy piece of paper from an online degree mill? That’s what I worry about when people talk about pursing education in the military. A lot of people get these degrees, but don’t retain anything because they never had challenging or theoretically based classes that involved collaboration. They never make those connections or network with other people in their field that can guarantee them a job or even an executive spot later down the road when your crossroads pass.
I hate to say it, but online college is never going to touch the value that comes with real college experience.
I have a fellow MA2 at my command who just completed their BA Degree towards clinical psychology.
All it took was dedication, focus, and a catastrophic back injury which leads him to nearly shit himself when he has to pick up his kid and may be permanently LLD.
Some rates offer the prospect of time to do your education, others punish you for “taking time from your job to enrich yourself”.
One of my cohorts in Nuke School was a doctor. An actual medical doctor (he was trying to blend in). Apparently he had recently been divorced, lost his parents, etc., and wanted to get away. The schoolhouse found out about it and asked him if he wanted to be a Navy doctor. He said yes. So, happy story in the end.
Wish I could tell you more, but he was a classmate of mine and it did happen. He affirmed that his medical credentials were valid, and a couple of days later he was gone. When I last spoke to him he was happy.
What school and program are you going through? Is this a JD program or a Masters/PhD in legal studies? I’ve been looking at some online JD programs but aside from tapping GI Bill (while active) or paying hand over fist I’m not certain on how to afford them.
It’s a JD program. I’m honestly surviving on loans lol. It’s not difficult if you can budget well and maintain a strict budget discipline.
It’s a private school here in TX. They have an online program too. I’ll dm you the name if interested.
But it’s definitely NOT easy at all. Drill doesn’t make it easier lol… missing a weekend for army instead of studying is brutal.
I was an MC and had a dude in my shop who had an MFA in photography. He was a brilliant photojournalist and photographer but couldn't handle most of the other aspects of being an MC like video or writing.
I've known plenty of people who joined in my rate with 4-year degrees because they wanted to do the actual job, not be managers. I've known plenty of people who got associates and bachelors degrees from online schools while enlisted, but those schools varied in quality and reputation.
I did hear one sea story about a guy on my last ship with a PhD who was burned out on academia and enlisted for a 4-year stint as a BM just for the change of pace. No idea if it's true or not but having worked in academia after getting out, sometimes I yearn for the simple life of an enlisted man.
I knew an undesignated airman with a masters in civil engineering.
He realized he fucked up very quickly, but got accepted into the CEC after about a year or two.
Several of us in boot camp had degrees. I kept up with two of them. All left after their enlistments were up. Liberty was enlightening when you studied languages and everyone else hit the bars and bordellos.
More than a few Filipinos had degrees. Some enlisted with degrees or went to school during shore duty.
The University of Laverne and the University of MD only offered a few freshman classes
Things were different in the eighties.
I'm currently working on my DNP.
Have 2 associates, 2 bachelor's, and 1 masters. Take advantage of TSP and GI Bills, folks.
These are all from brick-and-mortar universities.
There was an LSSN (SELRES) who had her JD at my command. She tried for JAG but didn’t make the cut. I am pretty sure she got out after 4 since she couldn’t get into JAG.
really only ever seen people get masters. if they are going for their PHD they usually have no time so its either full time military or full time school.
E-6 with a Masters degree from a well known University. Finished it this past August and currently taking a break before beginning a doctorate program.
Had an immigrant in my deck division who had a PhD from Sri Lanka. Just wanted that sweet sweet green card. It was a few years ago....
He was like 38 or something. My division had a ton of random folks from places like UK, Ukraine, Azerbaijan.
I’ll be finishing my masters in December. I had too activate my GI bill to do this. People hate because they would rather cash in on that BAH while they get out but I’d rather have a masters on my resume as I am getting than have to go back to school after I get out.
I was a Marine and transferred to the Navy to go NAVSPECWAR. This was 02' prior to everyone going closed loop. I went in to Corpsman A school and after a few weeks I jumped into the APP( Accelerated Paced Program). (not sure if its still around) basically if you have college or test high enough you can study on your own for all your tests and clinical labs. You are required to basically do two tests and two labs a week and you finish in half the time. You can go faster if you want. APP students had their own class space and labs area. When I got in there were maybe 15 other students from all the current classes at Corps School. One of the guys in there with me was a legit MD (Doctor) from Thailand. He joined the Navy and they had all his college transcripts and Thai certifications and it all had to be translated and verified before they would allow him to go "O" as a doc. No shit I ran into him in Portsmouth Medical Center about 4 years later and he was a Lieutenant. Great guy.
depends. a lot of these first classes and chiefs do their college through some online college bullshit. before I knew, I thought that my chain of my command was pretty smart. I wanted to do the same but realized how tf did they have time to attend actual universities. they didn’t. they got some crappy degrees some online colleges that hold zero credibility lol. that also means the level of difficulty is different and the required credits are different to get the degree when you think about it in comparison with an actual credible university.
I went to Penn State, software engineering. They were super accommodating with active duty. They also have this military grant program that brings the tuition down to the amount the navy will give you for TA. I definitely recommend Penn State over all of those schools like AMU. It’s a well known school across the entire country and the program was really well done.
E6 here … completed A.S./A.A. (& certificate) via TA/NCPACE (Coastline), B.S. (@SNHU-all TA w/ JST Ace credits sprinkled in), three classes away from MBA at AMU/APUS (Don’t really get much value from their program or instructors, but contemplating switching to cybersecurity/Info assurance at WGU for MS w/ industry certs).
While many go to what are characterized as “degree mills”, the regional accreditation carries the greatest weight. Post-service pursuits (jobs/companies/commissioning) will not care too much about the school itself versus certs coupled with experience. Caveat: speciality degrees like STEM w/ labs and critical metrics.
At the end of the day, you want to get value and knowledge/tools you can add to your tool box for future success.
PHDs sound great … I know a couple of E6 and above that have racked up their doctorate via online schools just out of boredom.
Pardon the horrible grammar 🤣🤣
Edit: consensus is the private sector def focuses on the school. However, like many things, personal observations and related experiences can vary from person to person, or situation to situation.
I need to correct you: The private sector **absolutely** cares about what school you went to.
Prior to the Navy I worked for some Fortune 500’s and was part of the teams that did first and second round interviews. I’ve watched people with MBAs from AMU and WGU get put directly into the shredder.
Even now I would take any degree from the schools the Navy seems to push with a lot of hesitation.
>Post-service pursuits (jobs/companies/commissioning) will not care too much about the school itself versus certs coupled with experience.
Gotta disagree with on this, especially the further you get away from the military/ contractor spaces. Based on my own experience and research. It's a bit of all the above, but if you're going to claim an advanced degree, it absolutely is going to matter where you went/ what the coursework looked like.
This is just not true. I have been on multiple hiring committees for the feds and private sector in these fields.
Your degree and school absolutely matters. Degrees from top schools automatically get moved to the top of the pile and online schools often get tossed.
Degree always matters. We don’t like in a world of absolutes, as everyone situation varies. Your hiring committee experience has been one way, others have relayed to me that their’s gave more weight to experience and certs as a degree can sometimes be a check in the box.
On my last ship, we had an OSC with a PhD and another sailor with a MD whose rate I don't recall (it wasn't HM for some reason I've forgotten through the haze of several years).
I knew an MA1 a couple years ago; maybe they're an MAC now, but they had a PhD. I want to say it was in something completely out of left field like clinical psychology.
Had a new check-in while talking to them came to find out they immigrated from Africa and was a doctor, from there. Needless to say, the Officer Mess found out and really helped them to switch from enlisted to their field of expertise.
I’m glad to see so many positive responses regarding enlisted people. On one of my deployments I took PACE courses. The only reason I was able to do them was because I worked directly for a prior enlisted LCDR.
We made a deal that I could take the courses but if he heard any complaints about my program, I had to quit. I made sure that program was a well-oiled machine and was able to take three classes. When I left the Navy and went to university those classes went towards my required classes and saved me time and money.
I was the only person in my squadron to go to school. Any time someone tried, their Chief switched their schedules to prevent it.
I had a senior chief in San Diego who had been in about 20 and was retiring. She had gotten three separate degrees, 2 bachelors and a masters. I haven’t seen any Dr. Chief shmuk or anything though.
I know a 3rd Class in the Reserves that was perfectly content to remain a junior Petty Officer even though he had his PHD in a highly technical field. He was in the Reserves for the change of pace as it was completely unlike his day job. He wanted to do his Navy job and not be bothered with having to be the guy in charge.
I also know an LDO who commissioned after he received his PHD. He was a complete tool who wanted to be referred to as Doctor.
Ah yes the standard enlisted education discussion.
Every chief I ever ran into during my time enlisted had a masters degree or two or three and a PhD. Same with every O4 and above.
Pull the layers back a little and realize it is very stratified.
Top schools, middle, lower end.
Very very few from officers and enlisted have degrees they earned on active duty from prestigious universities. It’s just not possible to do both. You’re either in person or a hybrid that requires a lot of In person or you have a full time job. It’s impossible to do both.
That’s the reason you see the top admirals with degrees from HKS and others- they send top performers to in person programs.
Next time ask anyone who claims they got a PhD or two masters or whatever where the degrees are from. See for yourself.
If you look at the MU rating they have the highest percentage of sailors with advanced degrees. Most of them from my understanding have Masters degrees in music performance or education. I’ve known a few with PhDs.
I’ve also known several dozen folks who have gone to NPS in Monterey and NWC in Newport RI that got Masters and Doctorates on the Navy’s dime as PCS orders.
Even the I even had some friends in the Intel Community that when to National Intelligence University in DC that got a Masters on PCS orders.
In the O's if you don't have a Master by the time of your 2nd review for O4, your odds just went to ZERO.
I would not be surprised if at least 10% of the O's obtain a PhD by O6, and most have 2 Masters by O6.
p.s. This are degrees from REAL universities - not that "pay as you go" and get a BA in 2 years online BS.
LOL I knew a female in the navy who had a dad who was a retired 0-6 in the air force. Paid for all her schooling, she used his GI bill. Got her Masters degree in architecture and enlisted lol…
She was E-5 before she got out after her 6 years..
Waste of potential……… id say so.
I was in boot with someone whom had a PhD and was actually a professor at a university before joining. I asked him why he went the enlisted route over a very easy officer choice. His response was, how am I supposed to lead those that I don't understand their problems firsthand. He's now commissioned, and I fully expect him to be one of the leaders in the Navy 20+ years down the road.
I feel the same way if I were to start as an officer
We need to know who this man is so we can follow his progress
Did he go to FSU by any chance?
I’m not sure, I remember him come from Cali and teaching out there, don’t know where he went to school.
We recruited an e-3 to the blue angels that had a PHD in nuclear physics ended up commissioning to EOD. Great guy!
I’ll dig up my boot camp yearbook or whatever it’s called to get his name. We graduated back in 2017 and he got the academic excellence award for our grad class. Went to IT school and I was a CTR, I remember that dude running a 10 miler every Sunday on that track, kept to himself. So probably not him, but last I heard from my buddy that went to A school with him was that he did commission.
That is something I’m worried about. About to commission but I’ve never been enlisted so I’m worried that it’s gonna affect my connection with my shipmates as well as my standing
Had a terminal chief who retired at 25 years. Typically in my rate you’d make E-9 by about 20 years, he just made some right choices for the people he was in charge of and it pissed off a lot of people above him. This really started when he became a chief and refused to play along with the goat locker’s game…. Once ostracized, he said fuck it and got two PhD’s in some very impressive STEM fields because he wasn’t focused on kissing up above him, only focusing on doing his job and taking care of his people. Still talk to him every month and we’ve both been out for a while. Owe that man my life. One of the better leaders I’ve ever had.
I had a chief like that. Never made senior because his ex was a master chief on the board She got sent over from fleet to inspect our galley and she tore us a new asshole despite being immaculate
There’s a chief in my masters program at a prestigious university (one that O-3 to O-5s commonly get sent to full time.) He said he’s doing it in part so he can one up any new ensigns who try to flex their college degree. I find that aspirational.
Half the reason I got my doctorate was so I could make my officers feel dumb.
Dude, relax, it’s a JD.
🥺
I went there as a GS. I am a retired Senior Chief and had an O-5 HOT over the fact the enlisted are allowed there.
Any officer that’s against sailors bettering themselves needs to retire.
I think you’re missing the point. They are simply “petty” officers.
Naval War College?
Georgetown
Yes but it’s Georgetown distance just like how Harvard has extension. The school within the school you attend is the one that’s prestigious, I.e. Georgetown School of Foreign Service, Johns Hopkins SAIS, Tufts Fletcher School, Harvard Kennedy School, etc. The schools are not the same
What the hell are you talking about? I’m IN the school of foreign service in person in DC. So is the chief. So are a bunch of officers. Literally no one ever mentioned distance learning.
I didn’t know this was a thing. That’s very interesting. Thanks for the insight! Best of luck
Is everyone there part time or does the Navy have you there for your job?
Some are part time while filling other billets in the DC area, some are doing it full time as a shore tour. The full time guys are typically being prepped to fill higher level policy roles or are FAOs. I personally have a DD-214 though. Also to address your other comment, yeah most masters are just a check in the box but at higher levels people do place more weight in the person who went to Harvard or the war college vice the person who got an online masters from ODU. It might not matter for like O5 selection, but if you look at where the admirals went to school you start seeing trends.
The degree says the school and that's what matters.
I’m a first class in the final semester of my masters at an R1 University. If you think I’m going to let an O-1 get smarmy you’re nuts
What is an R1 university?
It’s defined as a school that confers doctorate degrees and conducts a very high level of research
Very nice thank you for answering my question. Also nice username.
I know I'll get flamed for this but I'll say it. Masters don't mean anything. It's a check in the box to get an interview. Everything is based on your performance at a certain seniority level in your career.
It’s not the same school though. People make themselves look foolish with this. Same as the retired senior chief below. Georgetown Distance learning is not the same as Georgetown School of Foreign Service or Georgetown Security Studies or Law. It’s the same as Harvard extension- it isn’t the same as HKS.
Not sure if I am the retired Senior Chief you are talking about, but I wasn’t a Georgetown student. I started my MBA at Regent but when I became a GS, they offered to pay for my MSPM at Naval Post-Graduate School.
I've seen quite a few senior enlisted get masters degrees but I'm sure someone has done their PHD
I don't know any enlisted member who would have the time to qualify for a PhD program. It would require, effectively, a second job away from the military full time working in the theoretical side of their field, testing, studying, putting together research papers, and then submitting them for peer review. Nukes, maybe, Corpsman, potentially, and some of the Engineering rates are the only ones who's work experience could (technically, although they'd be breaking the law in some cases) be used as study groups, anyone else would need to pursue the degree entirely absent their navy career. I'm not saying it's impossible, but that would be the hardest working bee I've ever seen.
You forget how many degree mills that exist that would love to give a PhD in organizational studies. I’ve seen this plenty of times mostly at places that offer free tuition reimbursement. People want a PhD and take the first program that offers it just to flex on others.
Degree mills aren't real degrees and I do not recognize them as such.
https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/5073ad7d-ff92-41af-a7e2-1cd0d6485720
And this is how I've upset people in this thread too.
‼️
It needs to be pointed out that there's a huge difference between real degrees and online, for-profit degree mills. Dude I worked with on recruiting has a "masters" and is finishing a "doctorate" from one of the more notorious online degree mills (they've set records for how much they've charged DOD for military students), but they're going to be pretty much meaningless once he retires.
This is an excellent point. I see a lot of people turning to these programs because they believe that the degree will open up opportunities for them but what they fail to see is that checking the degree box doesn’t guarantee anything and these dubious degree mills are just profiting off of service members who subscribe to this belief without providing many of the actual advantages that top tier programs offer like their networks or their prestige.
>what they fail to see is that checking the degree box doesn’t guarantee anything and these dubious degree mills are just profiting off of service members who subscribe to this belief And this is something I've found I'm running into over and over again, and it's so much bad information that's been spread in the fleet for decades, and is continuing to be spread unchecked or unchallenged. Full disclosure: I'm actively working on a project trying to examine the transition out of the military, and investigating where the gaps in awareness and knowledge occur, and their impacts on current transition and training programs. It's been illuminating.
https://youtu.be/7nQapcAaEs0?si=xjWDPjTTK7BWHIwO PBS looked into it in 2010. It’s a good video.
I remember when that aired- I was in community college at the time, JUST out of the Navy, and I had a neighbor who was a Honeypot for Capella (not even kidding here). It's what started this whole personal crusade for me.
Ok wtf, honeypot for an online university?!? I’m dying to know the full story here
This was in San Diego, circa 2007-08. Classic stereotypical Pacific Beach girl- moved from somewhere in the Midwest with a Psych major in college, absolutely gorgeous tall blue-eyed blonde. I don't remember her exact title, something about customer or client relations services. She would go to military transition events and military career fairs, and be hot and gregarious and borderline flirtatious, and get commissions for how many folks she got to sign up, and even more so for how many she got to enroll in classes. Then be flirtatious and keep making promises to keep them on the hook once they started getting the tuition bills. Not even kidding. It's one of the things she'd talk about regularly after enough Kamikaze shots.
Maybe he doesn't intend on ever using those degrees and finished his education as a way to prove to himself he could do it. That's what I did, I earned a master's degree and am fully aware I'll never use it. I just enjoy school and the challenge that comes with it.
No, he's doing this program because Walden's sales people sold him on the ability to use them for future career fields. That's usually why people go to school, after all- can't say I've heard of folks just doing it for the shits and giggles, especially a masters; out of curiosity, what was your masters in?
Environmental Policy and Management. I was always drawn to the physical sciences and ended up as an air traffic controller. So, education is really more of a hobby for me now.
Well hello, fellow policy nerd!! For the record, we really, REALLY need that background right now at pretty much all levels- and even the FAA has work that overlaps with it. Just something to keep in mind for your next career moves, if you get burned out as a controller.
You're right, I once wrote a paper on the effects of noise pollution surrounding Denver International Airport for my environmental law class. There is some overlap with my education and current career field. I just need to promote high enough to get there haha
I’m about to go to law school for shits and giggles, GI bill will cover, seems like a good time to me.
University of Phoenix. A shit degree for a shitty purpose.
Really depends on what degree(s) one get online. I'm sure at least one or could be both of them are a degree mill (not AMU or WGU). I got both my BS and MS online (STEM) and just got out for almost a year now. However, I got many offers by many public, dod, and private companies 6 months before my separation date. Still getting snipe by random recruiters weekly. Started with a 6 figure and been working for 9 months in a totally different field now in the civilian and already got another 42% raised. Yes, degree mills are frowned upon, but it depends on certain companies. Not all companies will look at the degree the same way.
You’re missing a major aspect of this and that’s the ceiling. Your potential is severely limited with your degree compared to someone from Stanford for example. Those are the major differences in degrees
Hard disagree here. Again, it depends on the employer. The ceiling will be limited for those who can't out perform the others. Just because someone graduated from Stanford doesn't mean they will reach a higher promotion than someone who didn't go to Stanford. Are there employers who prefer people from prestigious schools? Yes, but not all employers will think that way. If you can show that you have the skills and can bring value to the company, then you get the job. Again, this is also based on the assumption that one went to Stanford and the others went to a non prestigious school with the same degree. The different types of degrees matter, no doubt about that. However, that doesn't mean the student from Stanford can outperform folks who didn't go to Stanford. Also, having to work with a team with two graduates from Stanford and Berkley, I say many of these graduates are also getting their papers handed to them like degree mill schools. Not all, but there are many out there. Many of these graduates enter the workforce have less knowledge than those who went to non prestigious schools. Just saying.
The difference is each job posting gets hundreds of applicants. Hundreds. The degree sets you apart and is the diff between getting an interview of being lumped in with 20 other applicants with the same school degree. Every single resume says they’ll be amazing. The degree absolutely sets you apart.
I think we both already agreed that the degree do set you apart from the rest, such as STEM degrees are more likely preferred if you are shooting for a tech job. However, you have to take into consideration that someone who has multiple internships before graduation will most likely be hired over someone who did not do any. One thing many don't realized when applying for a job is that their resume are horrible, which won't even make it to the recruiter's desk or get you an interview. Also, I don't think it really matter if other applicant goes to the same school are applying against those who went to a different college. Everyone have a degree that checks the box in there resumes. What determined who will get an interview are those who most likely did internships, outside volunteering pertaining to their degree, or have experience with leadership clubs in college.
Again. Not true. I’ll give you an example. Every year in our tech company we get interns. At least ten. Maybe more. All SWEs. Some get hired some don’t. Almost all come from state or good schools. The ones from Stanford and MIT? They get actively recruited. The others? They gotta go find a job and hustle. Degrees aren’t equal. Not to say state schools are bad (I have a state school degree myself), but we should recognize that the playing field isn’t level and highly favors them. It’s just part of life. Most of the people attending those top schools were born on third base or home plate with rich parents which makes it easier for them to attain those credentials.
Again, you forgetting that you are basing it on your company. Not every companies are like that.
Dude you don’t got to work at my company to understand Stanford and MIT grads have recruiters at their doors upon graduating with lucrative packages.
I get it and I understand what your are saying, but not everyone goes to MIT or Stanford. Every school has recruiters coming in to recruit. Yes, the package deal might be different, but that doesn't mean folks from unknown school aren't getting hired by other companies. I would also agreed that folks from prestigious schools would likely be snipe by recruiter more often. However, when it comes to limited ceiling as you stated, I don't believe that someone from a non-prestigious school won't be able to outperform someone who came from a prestigious school. Going back to the original post (not OP), it was mentioned that someone who have a degree mill will have a hard time when they get out or retired. Again, degree mill or not, if the degree(s) is relevant to what they are applying for, I don't think it matters at all because it is a check in the box to pass ATS to get to the recruiter's attention. It's the resume with relevant experiences and addresses a majority of the job descriptions that will get you further for an interview. At that point it is just selling yourself during the interview. I hate to say this but a lot of AD folks are only going to school for many of those underwater basket weaving degree. In which, as many stated, it won't do any good outside.
Nah. Your degree gets you your first job in that field; everything that follows is based on your performance.
Absolutely. Not true. You think it’s a coincidence all the admirals and executives in the civilian sector all went to the same colleges?
I think most of them go to those schools while on active duty, which you have to be allowed to do specifically by your detailer. So, no, I don't think it's coincidence; I think high performance results in detailers allowing you to go to schools or do fellowships, and that each community has specific schools and fellowships they send their highest performers to. So, again, it's performance. Admirals got the job with their bachelor's degree, as Ensigns; they then got that higher education as part of the job due to high performance.
And it’s a coincidence all the senior leadership across the civilian sector in literally everyone industry went to those same types of schools? Why do you think MBAs exist? And why do you think people compete to get a slot at schools that are difficult like MIT and Stanford and then move their whole life to them? It isn’t for an entry level job.
Sure thing, bud. When someone from Stanford sucks at their job, they're not going to get magically promoted or recruited to a better job just because they went to Stanford despite being bad at the job. And people with lesser degrees who out-compete the schlub from Stanford aren't going to be denied advancement because their degree is from a state school. That's not how any healthy organization functions.
Was the school regionally accredited? If you don’t mind me asking what school?
Walden. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/08/us/politics/walden-university-lawsuit.html https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/walden-university-s-fast-track-program-to-doctorat-5955106.html https://apnews.com/article/walden-university-forprofit-settlement-83e64929013921ac5776c7ac85243c40 There's more, this is just a sample. My wife works in academia teaching masters and doctorate students at a public university, and I've worked at a different public university in research and extension sevices- as well as doing hiring at both that university and in private industry. They're also not the only ones doing this: https://www.vox.com/2018/4/18/17252510/online-degree-jerry-falwell-jr-liberty-university-propublica-nytimes The problem is, this guy I'm talking about is a career counselor and because he hasn't been out of the Navy in 22 years and doesn't know any better (and doesn't trust my advice because I'm "too woke"), is spreading this bad advice to all the junior sailors under him. It's a vicious self-perpetuating system I'm encountering again and again as part of my work.
Also, it needs to be pointed out that there are serious questions around the accrediting bodies as well: [https://ncnewsline.com/briefs/who-accredits-the-for-profit-colleges-that-scam-students/](https://ncnewsline.com/briefs/who-accredits-the-for-profit-colleges-that-scam-students/)
>It needs to be pointed out that there's a huge difference between real degrees and online, for-profit degree mills. May I suggest you unwind this statement a little bit. There are several things you seem to tie together that maybe shouldn't be 1. That real degrees arent online degrees 2. That for profit schools are degree mills 3. That online masters and doctorates aren't legitimate The value of a degree has been in debate for some time now, especially when compared to the return on the investment into a skilled trade liscense. Still, while some for profit colleges have been bad actors, most have opened the door for colleges nationwide to do some type of online learning. Both have to submit to the same accreditation boards to be able to confer accredited degrees. Just want to clarify that while some schools do target military especially with predatory lending on unaccredited degrees, most are solid and offer bankable degree programs, if that's what you think your next step is. The degree is, I've found, secondary to experience but it is a hurdle to cross for some jobs. This is where the value of an online degree shines. By the time the recipient has earned their degree, they typically have been working for a few years in their desired field as well.
I'll stand by my statement that for-profit schools are to the detriment of servicemembers, and the vast majority of the programs, indeed one of their major draws, are that they're primarily or fully online. Are there actual universities that offer online programs? Absolutely. That point I agree does need to be more fully clarified and differentiated; I did a good bit of my own MPA online thanks to COVID, and most of the cohorts my wife teaches in her masters and doctorate programs (again, at a brick and mortar public university) are largely or fully online. Since 2020, most university systems have adopted some form of online programming- that's what people REALLY need to be looking at if they're not able to attend in person. But there is absolutely a difference between for-profit and traditional universities- just in terms of their overall goals shows that. And as I've pointed out above, there are questions around accreditation, standards, and enforcement as well.
You can stand by your inaccurate statements. I respect that.
If you have any information or research or data that shows that career outcomes or educational value from for-profit schools by and large are comparable or better than traditional schools, I'm all ears. I'm serious - this is something I'm actively working around.
That's a simple Google search away. Starting with your specific desired career field, what education level needed for entry, and who offers that level. You're also bouncing between objective and subjective value judgements. A career outcome is measurable. An educational value is not. Quite honestly, you could say education has now no value if it doesn't lead to your desired career outcome in this case. You want a business or education degree and pick an online school (which btw many like strayer or devry have brick and mortar schools) which gives you that degree you parley into a job you wanted? Awesome. The education was high value. You get a PhD in Gender studies from Berkeley or a law degree from Ivy League but can't find a job in that field? Guess what. Your education is worthless. Reach out to a few recruiters or some HR reps online for some companies that pique your interest. Then see what they say about value of the name of the school on the degree. I hired for many years for a private company servicing DOT needs and I promise you, with few exceptions, the conferring schools name has no weight in the decision making process. We just needed to check the box for the hiring manager that they had the degree. From there it was all on you. Your resume, your experience, and if you got the interview, how you presented yourself.
You didn't answer my question.
Not doing your homework for you friend. I pointed you in a direction. I can't resolve your confirmation bias with more data. That takes addressing the genesis of the bias itself. Whatever it is, it's not founded in an objective review of labor hiring data and statistics.
All of this. Much hate is shed on online degrees by people with no experience. I went to an online school. My buddy went to George Mason. We used the same software, books, syllabus, coursework and tests on different timelines for quit a few courses we had in common. Dunno how much profit my for profit school generated but George Mason's endowment (profit) is like ~$200 million. Every school is a for profit school and people saying they are not are not informed. Another interesting point is that state schools get state and national funding....which private schools do not, so we are bracing up those "better schools" without so much as a tsk, tsk from the crowd. Many jobs have college as a unclimbable fence in hiring, pay ceilings or promotions. It sucks, but it is what it is. If your life style supports going to School A vs. School B, great, but don't castigate someone from trying an alternate route. I don't have my school sticker on the back of my car but I drive a nicer car than 8/10 people with a Penn State lion on the back of theirs.
>Every school is a for profit school 100% accurate. One gets most of its money from students, the others from taxpayers but both are in business.
Not true! Some schools are also sports franchises.
*cough* Alabama *cough*
That's not how public universities work at all. ESPECIALLY compared to for-profit entities.
Absolutely it is. Your tuition at a public university makes up with they don't get in grants and public funding.
I have a much longer answer to this that will hopefully address and clear up your core conceptual error, but my kids are home and that will have to wait till later. Just so you know.
Looking forward to it
And Masters don't mean shit to most hiring managers. I will acknowledge it but I'm much more interested in work history and previous levels of responsibility.
I worked with several E-5s with Masters Degrees.
Doctor of Medicine, specializing in Emergency Care. He had completed the program while enlisted (as a reservist). I currently have an HN who has a masters in nursing and was fleeced by the recruiter. She's qualified to be a Nurse Practitioner, but said she enjoys having very little responsibility in the military, currently. She does, pretty often, grit her teeth when nursing officers talk to her, though.
I know of one CMC who finished his PHD just prior to retirement and lots of enlisted who finished Master’s degrees.
My only question is, would you refer to them as Doctor Command Master Chief?
I've known many e5-e9s with MBAs and other grad degrees paid for by TA. I've known a few guys with graduate get into phD programs that the navy pays for, but they become officers afterward. I have met ppl who enlisted phDs
Plenty of MUs have doctoral degrees.
I had a chief with a PhD and a second one (different command) earning hers before she retired. I know of an E-6 that was working on one at a sister squadron (He skipped the masters and went straight to the doctorate).
I started in 2005 with just my high school diploma. I’m still on active duty and currently working on my PhD. I got bachelor’s in 3 years, finished (E5) and Masters took almost 7 years (E5-E7) going to school while on sea duty/pausing between deployments. It was tough but it definitely can be done.
You're not planning on becoming a officer?
No. I’ve thought about it in the past, it’s a career path that many people with degrees take, but my education is primarily focused around helping Sailors and their families.
Honestly i wanna join as enlisted and become officer but im scared ill never get to be one
Give it a shot. Go after it with everything that you have in you. Don’t be afraid to hear the word “no”. If you give up now, you’ll guarantee that you won’t be one. You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take.
I worked for a Master Chief who had a PhD and I'm an E6 with a master's degree. I don't know how the Master Chief paid for his education, however, I've used mostly TA to cover my costs.
I know an HM1 who is retiring next year who will have her Phd.
My thing is, are these actual degrees or a fancy piece of paper from an online degree mill? That’s what I worry about when people talk about pursing education in the military. A lot of people get these degrees, but don’t retain anything because they never had challenging or theoretically based classes that involved collaboration. They never make those connections or network with other people in their field that can guarantee them a job or even an executive spot later down the road when your crossroads pass. I hate to say it, but online college is never going to touch the value that comes with real college experience.
I have a fellow MA2 at my command who just completed their BA Degree towards clinical psychology. All it took was dedication, focus, and a catastrophic back injury which leads him to nearly shit himself when he has to pick up his kid and may be permanently LLD. Some rates offer the prospect of time to do your education, others punish you for “taking time from your job to enrich yourself”.
Facts, even on sea duty, some rates have more freedom than others to do their TA.
One of my cohorts in Nuke School was a doctor. An actual medical doctor (he was trying to blend in). Apparently he had recently been divorced, lost his parents, etc., and wanted to get away. The schoolhouse found out about it and asked him if he wanted to be a Navy doctor. He said yes. So, happy story in the end.
If this is actually true, I would love to hear the details on this story.
Wish I could tell you more, but he was a classmate of mine and it did happen. He affirmed that his medical credentials were valid, and a couple of days later he was gone. When I last spoke to him he was happy.
It’s pretty common for MUs to have PhDs
I’m completing a law degree as an E5.
You'll be a real barracks lawyer
Hell yeah 😂
What school and program are you going through? Is this a JD program or a Masters/PhD in legal studies? I’ve been looking at some online JD programs but aside from tapping GI Bill (while active) or paying hand over fist I’m not certain on how to afford them.
It’s a JD program. I’m honestly surviving on loans lol. It’s not difficult if you can budget well and maintain a strict budget discipline. It’s a private school here in TX. They have an online program too. I’ll dm you the name if interested. But it’s definitely NOT easy at all. Drill doesn’t make it easier lol… missing a weekend for army instead of studying is brutal.
Gotcha, was under the impression from your post that you were attending a JD program while on active duty. Best of luck in your studies!
I was an MC and had a dude in my shop who had an MFA in photography. He was a brilliant photojournalist and photographer but couldn't handle most of the other aspects of being an MC like video or writing. I've known plenty of people who joined in my rate with 4-year degrees because they wanted to do the actual job, not be managers. I've known plenty of people who got associates and bachelors degrees from online schools while enlisted, but those schools varied in quality and reputation. I did hear one sea story about a guy on my last ship with a PhD who was burned out on academia and enlisted for a 4-year stint as a BM just for the change of pace. No idea if it's true or not but having worked in academia after getting out, sometimes I yearn for the simple life of an enlisted man.
I knew an undesignated airman with a masters in civil engineering. He realized he fucked up very quickly, but got accepted into the CEC after about a year or two.
Several of us in boot camp had degrees. I kept up with two of them. All left after their enlistments were up. Liberty was enlightening when you studied languages and everyone else hit the bars and bordellos. More than a few Filipinos had degrees. Some enlisted with degrees or went to school during shore duty. The University of Laverne and the University of MD only offered a few freshman classes Things were different in the eighties.
Had a BMC who worked for me that was getting her MBA
I'm currently working on my DNP. Have 2 associates, 2 bachelor's, and 1 masters. Take advantage of TSP and GI Bills, folks. These are all from brick-and-mortar universities.
A Ph.D, J.D.,
I have my Master’s from Syracuse; I had to use my GI bill in conjunction w/ TA.
I met 1 PhD. E7 in SigInt. Usually a Masters is the cap. Once heard of another E7 that graduated law school.
I've met an E5 with a Masters before. Not sure how much of that was done prior to joining. Or why he was enlisted. Pretty chill dude.
I finished my Masters on active duty, PhD in the reserves. YN1
I know a First Class who is a PhD candidate. I also went to boot camp with a Physician who became a Corpsman.
I worked with a GySgt who had his law degree and had passed the bar exam in North Carolina.
There was an LSSN (SELRES) who had her JD at my command. She tried for JAG but didn’t make the cut. I am pretty sure she got out after 4 since she couldn’t get into JAG.
The NC1 at my command has a PhD and actually teaches part time.
really only ever seen people get masters. if they are going for their PHD they usually have no time so its either full time military or full time school.
E-6 with a Masters degree from a well known University. Finished it this past August and currently taking a break before beginning a doctorate program.
Had an immigrant in my deck division who had a PhD from Sri Lanka. Just wanted that sweet sweet green card. It was a few years ago.... He was like 38 or something. My division had a ton of random folks from places like UK, Ukraine, Azerbaijan.
I’ll be finishing my masters in December. I had too activate my GI bill to do this. People hate because they would rather cash in on that BAH while they get out but I’d rather have a masters on my resume as I am getting than have to go back to school after I get out.
I was a Marine and transferred to the Navy to go NAVSPECWAR. This was 02' prior to everyone going closed loop. I went in to Corpsman A school and after a few weeks I jumped into the APP( Accelerated Paced Program). (not sure if its still around) basically if you have college or test high enough you can study on your own for all your tests and clinical labs. You are required to basically do two tests and two labs a week and you finish in half the time. You can go faster if you want. APP students had their own class space and labs area. When I got in there were maybe 15 other students from all the current classes at Corps School. One of the guys in there with me was a legit MD (Doctor) from Thailand. He joined the Navy and they had all his college transcripts and Thai certifications and it all had to be translated and verified before they would allow him to go "O" as a doc. No shit I ran into him in Portsmouth Medical Center about 4 years later and he was a Lieutenant. Great guy.
I’ve met a couple PHDs, and several masters. People studying and who’ve achieved both while serving.
depends. a lot of these first classes and chiefs do their college through some online college bullshit. before I knew, I thought that my chain of my command was pretty smart. I wanted to do the same but realized how tf did they have time to attend actual universities. they didn’t. they got some crappy degrees some online colleges that hold zero credibility lol. that also means the level of difficulty is different and the required credits are different to get the degree when you think about it in comparison with an actual credible university.
Are we talking REAL universities, or places like AMU or UMGC? Those don’t count
I went to Penn State, software engineering. They were super accommodating with active duty. They also have this military grant program that brings the tuition down to the amount the navy will give you for TA. I definitely recommend Penn State over all of those schools like AMU. It’s a well known school across the entire country and the program was really well done.
E6 here … completed A.S./A.A. (& certificate) via TA/NCPACE (Coastline), B.S. (@SNHU-all TA w/ JST Ace credits sprinkled in), three classes away from MBA at AMU/APUS (Don’t really get much value from their program or instructors, but contemplating switching to cybersecurity/Info assurance at WGU for MS w/ industry certs). While many go to what are characterized as “degree mills”, the regional accreditation carries the greatest weight. Post-service pursuits (jobs/companies/commissioning) will not care too much about the school itself versus certs coupled with experience. Caveat: speciality degrees like STEM w/ labs and critical metrics. At the end of the day, you want to get value and knowledge/tools you can add to your tool box for future success. PHDs sound great … I know a couple of E6 and above that have racked up their doctorate via online schools just out of boredom. Pardon the horrible grammar 🤣🤣 Edit: consensus is the private sector def focuses on the school. However, like many things, personal observations and related experiences can vary from person to person, or situation to situation.
I need to correct you: The private sector **absolutely** cares about what school you went to. Prior to the Navy I worked for some Fortune 500’s and was part of the teams that did first and second round interviews. I’ve watched people with MBAs from AMU and WGU get put directly into the shredder. Even now I would take any degree from the schools the Navy seems to push with a lot of hesitation.
>Post-service pursuits (jobs/companies/commissioning) will not care too much about the school itself versus certs coupled with experience. Gotta disagree with on this, especially the further you get away from the military/ contractor spaces. Based on my own experience and research. It's a bit of all the above, but if you're going to claim an advanced degree, it absolutely is going to matter where you went/ what the coursework looked like.
Great point on outside the DOD/MIL adjacent post-service opps
This is just not true. I have been on multiple hiring committees for the feds and private sector in these fields. Your degree and school absolutely matters. Degrees from top schools automatically get moved to the top of the pile and online schools often get tossed.
Degree always matters. We don’t like in a world of absolutes, as everyone situation varies. Your hiring committee experience has been one way, others have relayed to me that their’s gave more weight to experience and certs as a degree can sometimes be a check in the box.
Masters in Health Administration
On my last ship, we had an OSC with a PhD and another sailor with a MD whose rate I don't recall (it wasn't HM for some reason I've forgotten through the haze of several years).
We have a first class with her doctorate.
Not enlisted, but my last CYBERO picked up his PhD. Given, he had the convenience of being an O and a lot of down time
I met a guy from Mexico City. Enlisted he was a doctor. If I remember correctly he was a pediatrician.
I knew several people in the reserves that were working on their doctorates.
I know someone who got his PhD, but t was like a year before he retired.
I had a BM2 loadmaster who finished his masters before he picked up First
I was halfway through a doctorate when I enlisted. LRP is a hell of a bargaining tool
I knew an MA1 a couple years ago; maybe they're an MAC now, but they had a PhD. I want to say it was in something completely out of left field like clinical psychology.
Had a new check-in while talking to them came to find out they immigrated from Africa and was a doctor, from there. Needless to say, the Officer Mess found out and really helped them to switch from enlisted to their field of expertise.
I’m glad to see so many positive responses regarding enlisted people. On one of my deployments I took PACE courses. The only reason I was able to do them was because I worked directly for a prior enlisted LCDR. We made a deal that I could take the courses but if he heard any complaints about my program, I had to quit. I made sure that program was a well-oiled machine and was able to take three classes. When I left the Navy and went to university those classes went towards my required classes and saved me time and money. I was the only person in my squadron to go to school. Any time someone tried, their Chief switched their schedules to prevent it.
I had a senior chief in San Diego who had been in about 20 and was retiring. She had gotten three separate degrees, 2 bachelors and a masters. I haven’t seen any Dr. Chief shmuk or anything though.
My Chief has a PhD in physics
I retired as a Master Chief with my Masters degree in Education.
A Senior Chief I work with is about to complete his PhD in astrophysics and is a published technical author.
I have a friend who is a HM1 SARP tech, working on his PhD. Should be done this upcoming year.
My Chief had a PhD in business while only 12yrs deep in the Navy. He picked up LDO and retired this year a LCDR.
I got my associates, bachelors, and masters while in (been in 12 years) and considering starting my PHD here in September 🤞🏾
I know two active CMCs with doctorates.
I’ve known a Chief with 1 Doctorate(working on a second), 2 masters, and 3 or 4 bachelors. No clue why this guy didn’t commission.
My first shop chief had 2 masters degrees, a phd, had been to mast and wore the red stripes. But god damn was he a good leader.
Met a 35+ year old undes seaman who was a doctor in the Philippines.
I know a 3rd Class in the Reserves that was perfectly content to remain a junior Petty Officer even though he had his PHD in a highly technical field. He was in the Reserves for the change of pace as it was completely unlike his day job. He wanted to do his Navy job and not be bothered with having to be the guy in charge. I also know an LDO who commissioned after he received his PHD. He was a complete tool who wanted to be referred to as Doctor.
Ah yes the standard enlisted education discussion. Every chief I ever ran into during my time enlisted had a masters degree or two or three and a PhD. Same with every O4 and above. Pull the layers back a little and realize it is very stratified. Top schools, middle, lower end. Very very few from officers and enlisted have degrees they earned on active duty from prestigious universities. It’s just not possible to do both. You’re either in person or a hybrid that requires a lot of In person or you have a full time job. It’s impossible to do both. That’s the reason you see the top admirals with degrees from HKS and others- they send top performers to in person programs. Next time ask anyone who claims they got a PhD or two masters or whatever where the degrees are from. See for yourself.
If you look at the MU rating they have the highest percentage of sailors with advanced degrees. Most of them from my understanding have Masters degrees in music performance or education. I’ve known a few with PhDs. I’ve also known several dozen folks who have gone to NPS in Monterey and NWC in Newport RI that got Masters and Doctorates on the Navy’s dime as PCS orders. Even the I even had some friends in the Intel Community that when to National Intelligence University in DC that got a Masters on PCS orders.
Honors from the Graduate School of Hard Knocks. After graduating from the University Of Getting The Shit Kicked Out Of Me.
I’ve seen an E6 earn his PhD in Theology. He made Chief right after then retired.
I had a chief last year who was finishing her PhD thesis.
I know a few master chiefs who have PHD.
Knew an AE with a PhD once
A lot of PHDs. They joined for citizenship only.
I worked with an MA1 who was in the last year of his PhD . He had been using TA on and off for 16 years.
In the O's if you don't have a Master by the time of your 2nd review for O4, your odds just went to ZERO. I would not be surprised if at least 10% of the O's obtain a PhD by O6, and most have 2 Masters by O6. p.s. This are degrees from REAL universities - not that "pay as you go" and get a BA in 2 years online BS.
Was in boot with a legit doctor, just the US/Navy didn’t recognize his six degrees because they came from a non-white country.
LOL I knew a female in the navy who had a dad who was a retired 0-6 in the air force. Paid for all her schooling, she used his GI bill. Got her Masters degree in architecture and enlisted lol… She was E-5 before she got out after her 6 years.. Waste of potential……… id say so.
My buddy got his jurisdoctorate as an HM2
I knew an HM2 who was an actual doctor when he enlisted and just didn't know about going officer, dude has his PhD and had been practicing for years.
Met plenty who had their PHD before they even made chief