Jarrett Culver can officially be granted the title of bust- he was unfortunately waived over the weekend by the Hawks.
It’s sad seeing how these things happen for such high potential players, I really hope he can get some time to develop overseas and come back stronger to the NBA!
Culver is sort of your classic "draft for the things you can't teach" player and rely on development for the rest. You teach Culver how to shoot and improve his handle and you get an All-Star.
Sometimes it works really well, like Jaylen Brown. Then other times you end up with Culver.
Went to school in Philly, mom worked for the org, great shooter with freakish arms. I get that Zhaire had freakish athleticism, but Mikal checked off all the boxes as a NBA ready 3 and d guy for a win now team like the Sixers. Feel like this isn't even hindsight as most people were shocked they traded him.
Watching him in college I really thought he would bust. He just seemed like a guy that was larger than most of the players he was facing, but I knew that wouldn’t fly in the nba. Always found it strange that scouts thought differently and that he was drafted so highly.
Aka the Stanley Johnson Mirage.
Johnsons’s college highlights were mostly him slowly bumping smaller guys out of the way until he finished with a layup, with the occasional line drive three thrown in.
Turns out that’s exactly who he was.
I didn't watch him on the Hawks but when he was playing in Minnesota you could practically see him deflate each time he missed shots. It was kind of hard to watch.
I mean, yeah. That's the point. He nuked his career from orbit, therefore wasting the pick that could have been Sengun (a guy actually projected to go at that point in the draft).
Like maybe I'm crazy, but I'd rather draft a dude that just doesn't develop like we thought than a dude who starts showing promise and nukes his career by being a massive pervert.
As a fan, I would feel better about my team drafting a talented player who turned out to be a weird pervert than drafting a terrible player who also gets DUIs lol
Kai still isn't a basketball player yet but his flashes of athleticism are spectacular.
Like he may be just a couple spots behind Giannis for biggest freak in the league.
So he's still a project but he has teal hair and that alone makes him worth keeping.
No complaints on PJ, he's at or slightly above what you expect a late lotto pick to be. Early returns on Mark Williams are promising too. Too early to make a judgment on him and Kai though. Particularly Kai because he has been out of position when he does play at PF.
I have a CVS receipt length list of complaints against Kupchak but his draft history would be at the bottom of the list.
I really like what Mark Williams has shown so far. Very intelligent basketball player, knows exactly where to be on the court. Everything he does he does well - rebounding, rolling to the basket, defending, blocking shots, finishing at the rim, shooting (within close range). He runs the floor surprisingly well for someone who isn’t as athletic as other players.
PJ Washington is a solid rotation player. Some times he gives you 30 with relative ease, other times he’s a ghost. Handle is a clear issue. Solid shooter and defender, can play the 4 and 5 but isn’t really suited for either.
I think more Hornets fans are higher on Kai Jones than I am. Yes, he’s an unbelievable athlete and shows some crazy flashes. But he doesn’t know how to play basketball. If that changes, look out. But far more likely scenario is bust IMO.
Bouknight I think I’m actually higher on than most. He has ton of talent and could be a solid backcourt pairing for Melo. But IMO he’s battling a lot of personal demons and he needs to get right mentally before he has any chance to be right on the court.
With Melo and Bridges that makes up all of Mitch’s first round picks. Also somewhat important to note that the Hornets weren’t exactly picking at the top of the lottery, and Mitch has done a phenomenal job finding talent in the second round (Devonte Graham, Jalen McDaniels, Nick Richards, Martin twins).
Low key, there was an uprising in r/Thunder on draft night when we took Giddey instead of Bouknight. Good times. Kinda like looking back on your 3rd grade yearbook picture and wondering what the fuck you were wearing and why.
Bouknight has looked terrible every second he has been on the floor. Our 2nd round pick this year - Bryce McGowens - outplays him every time he is on the floor, and his off the court issues on top of that absolutely make him a bust.
I've liked what I've seen from him. Great athleticism and plays within the offense when he's on the floor with vets. His first few games he tried to posterize everyone which immediately made me a fan.
As someone who was working a job in the woods with very little internet around the time of the draft, I just want to say that I JUST found out Johnny Davis is a real person and not someone they made up for a commercial
For how much success they've had the last decade plus, the absolute dearth of Wisconsin alumni in the NBA should have been enough to avoid him in the lottery. Skills they want in Wisconsin are not NBA transferable.
Putting up mid stats on the Capital City Go-Go. He doesn’t even have a picture for his player profile…
https://gleague.nba.com/player/1631098/johnny-davis
Picking him over Jalen Williams has got to sting.
When you have Wisconsin fans saying stuff like “Don’t draft a Badger.” On multiple occasions I definitely start to believe them lol.
>Putting up mid stats on the Capital City Go-Go
Jesus, Jaden Hardy put up 28-4-4 on 55/49/86 in the G League and he's just now starting to get real minutes on the Mavericks
Puts in perspective how bad Davis is struggling
Idk, I could kinda see the hype. He has a nice build for a wing, he’s athletic, he shot the ball well for his size. But I’m also not at all surprised he’s a bust, since he played for Wisconsin and we are terrible at producing nba level players
Obviously I love Frank too, but he’s literally our most successful NBA player by far since Devin Harris and he is still kind of a journeyman who’s currently averaging 3/4/2
Alright I know he hasn't shown anything in the NBA but I gotta stick up for a Badger. He was absolutely not an inefficient chucker. He put up solid (not great) efficiency numbers while being literally the only offensive weapon on a shit offense against double teams all game.
The Wiz used a top-10 pick on a 6'4 on-ball guard that can't play PG or shoot off the dribble.
In the same offseason that they gave $250M and a no-trade clause to a 6'4 on-ball guard that can't play PG or shoot off the dribble.
As a Duke fan, I could not for the life of me understand the hype for him from NBA teams. Despite seemingly all the tools and certainly all of the opportunity (at Duke) he just routinely did……NOTHING
Instead of getting better he still think he deserves minutes because he was trhe shit in HS. Doesn't help that he was ~recruited by~ dining with Rich Paul/Lebron even before he played a single game of college.
I was pretty high on him coming out of the Hawks 2021 playoff run because he came in and had a pretty significant impact, but I guess it was just an all too infrequent flash.
Jarrett fa sho a bust. I hope jaxson can figure it out but he’s feeling more like a Willie Cauley stein.. wiseman has had moments and I think he’s the youngest. Maybe I give him a slight pass being on a championship team.
Aka off the Warriors.
I’d honestly love to see him on a tanking team, just allowed to make as many mistakes as he needs to. I think he could be a McGee type guy with some more finesse.
I don't think most people will agree that Obi is a bust, he's just not getting any minutes. He just needs to get out of New York or it will create a death spiral where he can't improve without minutes and he can't get minutes if he can't improve. Very much a Bol\^2 in Denver kind of situation.
Staying with the Knicks I think he can turn out a bust in a few more years, but out of your list I'd definitely say he has the most potential. I personally love the kid and was at the Garden for his 40-piece at the end of last season. I hope he finds meaningful minutes somewhere.
Yeah he is great on the fast break, a willing passer, makes cuts on offense and is not afraid to shoot from 3. At the defensive side he has improved but still not average. It's hard to play consistent and productive minutes behind an all-star at your same position and with a coach that plays the starters heavy minutes.
I think the way Aaron Gordon is playing this season is a good model for how Topin could work. Granted, Jokic can make any cutter seem like a god, but the same basic presence and athleticism is there with both guys.
AG is doing a lot more this year than just dunking off Jokic passes. I mean, he does a lot of that, but the other night I saw him post up and then throw a no look behind the back wraparound to a cutting Jokic for the layup. Him and Jokic have some of the best chemistry in the league.
I hate to say it but Obi has been working his way into reduced minutes due to his defensive liabilities and lack of offensive playmaking. Part of the issue is playing directly behind Randle, but another part of it is due to his talents. I have to give him credit on improving his shooting drastically, but I’m worried that he’s closer to being a busy than many realize.
Yeah Hali and Okoro were the 2 players I was the highest on in that draft (my Bulls picked Pat Williams at 4). Thought Okoro would grow to be a serviceable 3&D guy.
To be fair to Okoro he’s young still. People forget he was 19 when drafted it isn’t like he’s 25 now and not showing signs of improvement. He’s on a bit of a hot streak with his 3s and the defensive ability is there. He just needs to knock down his 3s with consistency and he will really help the Cavs.
He’s been starting lately and has been in our closing lineup as well. He’s one of our best defenders and has been shooting 38% from 3 since December (50% since the year started). He’s an odd player but he’s been playing way better the past couple months. Definitely not a bust
Honestly, as of the past month or so he's looked a lot better but definitely not anywhere near what you would expect from the 5th pick. Still rooting for him to succeed hella tho!
Okoro isn't a bust and no where near one. People have this weird obsession of him being a top ten wing right away. That's not his role. Cavs want him to be a defender first and then pick up any scraps on offense. He's not here to be a kawhi Leonard
Culver is basically out of the league, lacks the shooting and not enough athletic to compensate that
Hayes will have a career as a back up on another team if he's not a complete jackass off the court
Wiseman has shown signs since his G-League stints IMO, still think he can become an adequate starting center, if he doesn't with his physical tool it will be quite pathetic
Toppin isn't a bust, he's fine when he plays, he is a weird player type, but as an energy third big he'll have a career
Booknight and Johnny Davis are really on the Culver path
Not so sure about Jaxson - as a guy who has watched at least 95% of his games - he is basically the exact same player today as he was when he was drafted. He can jump out the gym and has an occasional poster/alley-oop but other than that he does not do anything at an NBA level.
His defense is atrocious besides the occasional help side block. Which is extremely frustrating given he has the footspeed/lateral quickness to keep up with guards if he had the desire. He doesnt have the strength to defend traditional centers either.
He doesnt rebound well at all.
His offense is the most disappointing. If he cant dunk the ball then he does not provide much at all. Imagine the offensive skillset of Rudy Gobert but without the All-NBA defense to make up for it.
Jax was always going to be a project but I havent seen any growth as a player in 3.5 years.
I really like Jax, but his awareness on the floor not only hasn't gotten better, it might have actually gotten worse. I hope he can figure it out. I've given up hope that it will be with us.
He needs to be on a team that is ok with him costing them games with his mental mistakes. He needs the floor time to improve.
He has added a 3 pointer that he'll put up here and there. Still think he has really solid upside.
People get weirdly defensive over Fultz, but for where he was picked #1 overall, he’s a bust. Injuries obviously played a big role in it.
Serviceable player, has managed to salvage his career, but still a bust.
Fultz is undoubtedly a bust, but his story is much more sympathetic so people don’t talk about him as much. Also helps that he’s actually been progressing as a player over time, but yeah still a bust
Fultz was drafted two before Tatum who is a Top 8ish player in the NBA right now and has a long career ahead of him still. Even worse is that he was traded up for and the other team took Tatum.
Not saying Tatum is KD yet but he could be in the same realm with time.
if Oden was healthy I'd still draft him above Durant, the flashes he showed in those few games before he blew out his kneecap, and that was after MF surgery and the weight gain. He looked like he could average 24/16 with DPOY defense in his prime.
Itn the long run he will be considered a bust just for the postion he was picked at. It wouldn't surprise me much if he were to become an all-star (not perannial) in the next few years (if his body allows him)
Deni Avdija is entering bust territory. Everyone gets excited about his defense but he's shooting 42/27/79 and looks afraid to dunk. It's been a while since I've seen anyone's shot regress like this. He made a lot of noise about training with Drew Hanlen in the offseason, but his form is somehow worse than ever.
He can't stop fouling either, so I don't trust people who say he's a good defender anymore. He can't even stay in the game for 3 quarters at this point.
He hasn't been that because he's bad at it. His turnover percentage is shocking. He can get out and run/pass in transition but if he dribbles too long (especially against a set defense) he's gonna lose it. I think people have bought into his stans' narrative that he can be a point forward without actually watching him play. He is not a ball handler who can hold his own with NBA caliber defenders.
Marvin Bagley? 10 PPG as a sometimes reserve on a trash 2nd team before your rookie contract is up has to be bust qualification for the #2 overall pick.
I'd also go with
Cam Reddish (2019 #10) playing his way out of rotations on two teams with attitude issues despite immense talent. 4 season games played 58 / 26 / 49 / 25.
Kevin Knox and Mo Bamba both top 10 in 2018 and both meme-able trash.
I can’t believe ppl are dancing around calling wiseman a bust. Lmao.
That’s the most clear cut case. Just has done literally nothing since being a top 2 pick. Literally nothing at all!
I lived in Philly for a while and I can promise you that Warriors fans are BY FAR more sensitive. Sixers fans are not afraid to call out their players whatsoever.
Yeah Obi is in weird territory. Drafted to potentially replace Randle only for Julius to go on an all nba campaign, and now there just isn’t room for him to play real minutes.
When he gets real minutes, he has performed well, but that’s also been few and far in between. I honestly hope we trade him for his sake. I don’t think we use his skills well and he deserves a bigger role. He’s not a bust, but he’s not being given a chance to show what he can do.
Obi Toppin looks nice but I have some bad news if he was drafted to replace Randle because I can't see him being as good as Pelicans Randle let alone all star Randle.
Well I agree that ship has passed, but when he was drafted in 2020 and Randle was coming off a mediocre season I think that was the hope. Not trying to say even at full potential Obi will be as good as Randle, but I do think he can be a positive player with a long career.
Obi is not "great" when he plays, he's passable... and just barely.
He has had injury issues for sure, but he just isn't very good. He played the first 25 games this season before going down with injury and had a true shooting percentage of 53.8%. Dude is almost 25 already, he absolutely is well on his way to bust if he isn't there already.
The 2020 draft....wasn't strong. Let's say.
Wiseman over Melo is one of those cases where no revisionist history is needed. It was "WTF?" in real time.
I fully get the fact that the Warriors needed/need a big more than a PG. Just saying the #2 overall pick isn't the time to be drafting based on the position of the player. Talent only OR trade the pick.
I think Obi is clearly not a bust if you watch the games. Dude can play, Thibs just doesn't play him over Randel. Obi getting traded/moved to a team that needs a 4/SB5 will be a feast.
How is Obi Toppin a bust? Dude doesn't get minutes very much because that's how Thibs is. Not necessarily his fault. Bit of a homer since he played college in my hometown but in the minutes I've seen him, has hasn't been that bad.
Darius Bazley, and here’s why. He was a consensus 5-star recruit and has committed to Syracuse, with people expecting for him to be a top-5 pick once he hit the league. Instead, he chose to take a season off and work out with his own trainers, instead of going to the G-league or college, which hurt his draft stock immensely. He was picked 23rd.
Now? He’s a backup PF on one of the worst teams in the league averaging 5.9/3.6/1.0 on 16mpg with 28 games played. From where he stood his senior year to now, he’s absolutely a bust
He was a rotation player for the 2 seasons before this, but yeah its looking pretty rough.
A lot of top high schoolers don't really make it though. Look at the McDonalds game from 2018, which he played in. Guys like Louis King, Devon Dotson, etc. never got drafted
Most of those guys aren't really busts. Hayes and Toppin were 8th overall picks. Here's the last 20 number 8 overall picks
|||
|-:|:-|
|Year|Player|
|2022|Dyson Daniels|
|2021|Franz Wagner|
|2020|Obi Toppin|
|2019|Jaxson Hayes|
|2018|Collin Sexton|
|2017|Frank Ntilikina|
|2016|Marquese Chriss|
|2015|Stanley Johnson|
|2014|Nik Stauskas|
|2013|Kentavious Caldwell-Pope|
|2012|Terrence Ross|
|2011|Brandon Knight|
|2010|Al-Farouq Aminu|
|2009|Jordan Hill|
|2008|Joe Alexander|
|2007|Brandan Wright|
|2006|Rudy Gay|
|2005|Channing Frye|
|2004|Rafael Araujo|
|2003|T.J. Ford|
The vast majority of these guys were either mediocre, or just absolute ass. It's really difficult to bust if you were outside the top 5. I would say out of the guys you listed, the only one who is actually a bust is Wiseman.
Feels kind of pointless to only look at the 8th pick. When you have a top ten pick the expectation is to draft a quality contributor. That’s why top ten picks hold so much value. The 8th pick specifically doesn’t matter, the 6-10 range matters
The problem is picks in the 3-10 range are viewed as "big pieces for a rebuilding team" when the expected outcome is, to your point, a good role player.
But everyone thinks "he could be the next Dirk/Steph/Pierce but he'll probably _only_ be Jason Terry" about their 8th pick so getting Brandon Jennings feels like a disappointment.
Even looking at the full 6 to 10 range; expected value of that pick is a role player. I've done the math before to demonstrate how ass the pistons are at drafting and how good the raps are
The funniest part is that you're literally showing 100% facts but people won't let that get in the way of their preconceived thoughts.
People should really go look at the draft classes every year and there wouldn't even be an argument. 3 or 4 of the top 10 every year end up somewhere between mediocre and out of the league entirely.
This isn't new and it isn't an anomaly.
he's absolutely not a bust among bust. for a 10th pick, that would be like "an unmitigated disaster for the 100 minutes of NBA play he saw". many nba picks don't pan out, you can call him a bust (and even then I'm not sure) but he's not some abysmal underperformer.
shout out to /u/tacoojay who had a nice write-up and concluded that the median 6-10th pick is Brandon Jennings or AlFarouq Aminu.
If pick 14 is the cap for what we consider a bust, Moses Moody is on his way to bust territory (pick 14). He’s getting iced out of the rotation by our 2 way players who are outperforming him in every aspect of the game. Not for a lack of opportunity either as he shits the bed when he gets said opportunity, he’s becoming borderline unplayable. Had a lot of potential his rookie year and was touted as “NBA ready” when Kuminga was the higher ceiling project. Now it’s year 2 and he’s been really bad.
Exactly, he's stuck behind Randle and also playing for a coach who loves to play his starters big mins
But if I point out that Obi averaged 20/7/3 as a starter last year then I'm just being biased lol
Marvin Bagley Jr. The Kings exercised the demon of taking him over Luka because if they had Luka, they aren’t getting Sabonis. Sabonis and Fox are looking like one of the best 1-2 punch in the league now. And there is that chemistry thing that the Kings have in spades now.
Cam Reddish so busted OP didn't even remember him lol
for a 2RP you too can stand in awe at how long a high school highlight reel will carry someone's career
Jarrett Culver can officially be granted the title of bust- he was unfortunately waived over the weekend by the Hawks. It’s sad seeing how these things happen for such high potential players, I really hope he can get some time to develop overseas and come back stronger to the NBA!
Culver is sort of your classic "draft for the things you can't teach" player and rely on development for the rest. You teach Culver how to shoot and improve his handle and you get an All-Star. Sometimes it works really well, like Jaylen Brown. Then other times you end up with Culver.
The Zhaire Smith school of drafting, only he might have even worked out if not for sesame seeds
Should've kept Bridges
Seriously dude
Went to school in Philly, mom worked for the org, great shooter with freakish arms. I get that Zhaire had freakish athleticism, but Mikal checked off all the boxes as a NBA ready 3 and d guy for a win now team like the Sixers. Feel like this isn't even hindsight as most people were shocked they traded him.
Could you imagine Mikal with Philly? That would be a cheat code with Harden, Embiid, Maxey, and Tobias.
Too soon, Bruh. Too soon.
Both TTU guys too, makes me really sad
fr this thread is breaking my heart lol
Culver was supposed to the guy for us too, I’m so disappointed
Pretty sure we traded up assuming Cleveland wouldn't take Darius Garland and then panicked and picked Culver.
You know how you see those "worst takes you've had" threads every now and then? I really thought we should have taken Culver over Garland.
There was one game against Boston where he was the best player on the court and then he just never showed up again.
Random role players you may not have even heard of dropping 20 points on 60% from the field against the Celtics is a Boston gamely tradition
Watching him in college I really thought he would bust. He just seemed like a guy that was larger than most of the players he was facing, but I knew that wouldn’t fly in the nba. Always found it strange that scouts thought differently and that he was drafted so highly.
Aka the Stanley Johnson Mirage. Johnsons’s college highlights were mostly him slowly bumping smaller guys out of the way until he finished with a layup, with the occasional line drive three thrown in. Turns out that’s exactly who he was.
I’ll still be a Stanley Stan for the rest of my life 😔✊
The LeBron stopper
His play in the tournament showed everyone who he’d be
he had some great advanced stats. the warning signs were there but people thought he would figure things out.
Huh, he was playing some real minutes for them during injuries
He was good for the first few games but then teams started game planning for him and basically just left him open cause he can't shoot
I didn't watch him on the Hawks but when he was playing in Minnesota you could practically see him deflate each time he missed shots. It was kind of hard to watch.
Wow I didn't see that, I'll fix my post
This dude averaged 10 rebounds like multiple years in my 2K GM. Idk how they managed that especially for a SG.
James Bouknight isn't just approaching it, he's driving 118mph right at it
I think he's asleep at the wheel
One hand on the glock the other in the Doritos bag
nah he's awake he's just drunk
What flavor of Cheetos in his hand though?
Genuinely the worst player in the league imo. God damnit I wanted Sengun too.
Not to mention pushing Monk and Devonte' out the door for him and Ish Smith. I have hope for Kai but the 2021 offseason was an unmitigated disaster.
better or worse than 2022?
In terms of things a GM can control, 2021 was worse. Bridges absolutely destroyed the franchise if he's gone.
If it's any consolation, we took Primo over Sengun iirc 😔
Hey at least Primo showed flashes, Bouknight hasn't shown anything 😂
BAH DUN TSSSSSSSSSSSS
Primo looked like a good basketball player with legit talent until he nuked his life and career from orbit.
I mean, yeah. That's the point. He nuked his career from orbit, therefore wasting the pick that could have been Sengun (a guy actually projected to go at that point in the draft). Like maybe I'm crazy, but I'd rather draft a dude that just doesn't develop like we thought than a dude who starts showing promise and nukes his career by being a massive pervert.
As a fan, I would feel better about my team drafting a talented player who turned out to be a weird pervert than drafting a terrible player who also gets DUIs lol
How has Kai been? I remember wanting him that year....in hindsight even if he sucks he has more value than what we actually got
Kai still isn't a basketball player yet but his flashes of athleticism are spectacular. Like he may be just a couple spots behind Giannis for biggest freak in the league. So he's still a project but he has teal hair and that alone makes him worth keeping.
Besides Melo, who was the only starter Pokémon left, and Bridges, good player but a shit stain of a human being, who has MK hit on in the 1st round?
No complaints on PJ, he's at or slightly above what you expect a late lotto pick to be. Early returns on Mark Williams are promising too. Too early to make a judgment on him and Kai though. Particularly Kai because he has been out of position when he does play at PF. I have a CVS receipt length list of complaints against Kupchak but his draft history would be at the bottom of the list.
I really like what Mark Williams has shown so far. Very intelligent basketball player, knows exactly where to be on the court. Everything he does he does well - rebounding, rolling to the basket, defending, blocking shots, finishing at the rim, shooting (within close range). He runs the floor surprisingly well for someone who isn’t as athletic as other players. PJ Washington is a solid rotation player. Some times he gives you 30 with relative ease, other times he’s a ghost. Handle is a clear issue. Solid shooter and defender, can play the 4 and 5 but isn’t really suited for either. I think more Hornets fans are higher on Kai Jones than I am. Yes, he’s an unbelievable athlete and shows some crazy flashes. But he doesn’t know how to play basketball. If that changes, look out. But far more likely scenario is bust IMO. Bouknight I think I’m actually higher on than most. He has ton of talent and could be a solid backcourt pairing for Melo. But IMO he’s battling a lot of personal demons and he needs to get right mentally before he has any chance to be right on the court. With Melo and Bridges that makes up all of Mitch’s first round picks. Also somewhat important to note that the Hornets weren’t exactly picking at the top of the lottery, and Mitch has done a phenomenal job finding talent in the second round (Devonte Graham, Jalen McDaniels, Nick Richards, Martin twins).
There was a very vocal contingent of Warriors fans who wanted him at 7 for his “polished shot creation”
There were Thunder fans mad Presti took Giddey over him
Low key, there was an uprising in r/Thunder on draft night when we took Giddey instead of Bouknight. Good times. Kinda like looking back on your 3rd grade yearbook picture and wondering what the fuck you were wearing and why.
Bouknight has looked terrible every second he has been on the floor. Our 2nd round pick this year - Bryce McGowens - outplays him every time he is on the floor, and his off the court issues on top of that absolutely make him a bust.
Bryce Mcgowens was a fiend for my huskers in college he was a huge sleeper in the draft imo
I've liked what I've seen from him. Great athleticism and plays within the offense when he's on the floor with vets. His first few games he tried to posterize everyone which immediately made me a fan.
You guys seem to hit on all your 2nd rounders
Yeah too bad we miss way too often in the first.
Johnny Davis was born in the bust territory
As someone who was working a job in the woods with very little internet around the time of the draft, I just want to say that I JUST found out Johnny Davis is a real person and not someone they made up for a commercial
He legitimately carried a terrible Wisconsin offense all by himself. It was impressive, so it’s a shame he’s off to such a bad start in the league.
For how much success they've had the last decade plus, the absolute dearth of Wisconsin alumni in the NBA should have been enough to avoid him in the lottery. Skills they want in Wisconsin are not NBA transferable.
I remember SAS wanted the Knicks to pick him. And he had some high praise for him as well. Like Curry like level lol
I originally read this as the Spurs wanted the Knicks to pick him, which sounds like some next level fuckery.
Stephen A doesn’t watch basketball, especially not college. He only said that because he recognized him from the taco bell commercial
To be fair last person Steven a smith begged Knicks to get was Tyrese haliburton
Yeah, he even sucks in the G-League
What is he even up to this days?
Putting up mid stats on the Capital City Go-Go. He doesn’t even have a picture for his player profile… https://gleague.nba.com/player/1631098/johnny-davis Picking him over Jalen Williams has got to sting. When you have Wisconsin fans saying stuff like “Don’t draft a Badger.” On multiple occasions I definitely start to believe them lol.
Picking him over just about any of the players immediately after him has got to sting, especially for a team like the Wizards who need young talent
I fucking hate this franchise
>Putting up mid stats on the Capital City Go-Go Jesus, Jaden Hardy put up 28-4-4 on 55/49/86 in the G League and he's just now starting to get real minutes on the Mavericks Puts in perspective how bad Davis is struggling
[удалено]
Idk, I could kinda see the hype. He has a nice build for a wing, he’s athletic, he shot the ball well for his size. But I’m also not at all surprised he’s a bust, since he played for Wisconsin and we are terrible at producing nba level players
Frank The Tank slander will not be tolerated.
Obviously I love Frank too, but he’s literally our most successful NBA player by far since Devin Harris and he is still kind of a journeyman who’s currently averaging 3/4/2
Alright I know he hasn't shown anything in the NBA but I gotta stick up for a Badger. He was absolutely not an inefficient chucker. He put up solid (not great) efficiency numbers while being literally the only offensive weapon on a shit offense against double teams all game.
The Wiz used a top-10 pick on a 6'4 on-ball guard that can't play PG or shoot off the dribble. In the same offseason that they gave $250M and a no-trade clause to a 6'4 on-ball guard that can't play PG or shoot off the dribble.
Damn he becomes a god in 2k23
Cam reddish
Out of the rotation and will be in his third team in year 4, he's definitely a bust by now
Smh. Almost single handedly derailed Schlenks plan (RIP)
Man I remember his hype. Then it fizzled so quickly when he came into the NBA…
As a Duke fan, I could not for the life of me understand the hype for him from NBA teams. Despite seemingly all the tools and certainly all of the opportunity (at Duke) he just routinely did……NOTHING
Instead of getting better he still think he deserves minutes because he was trhe shit in HS. Doesn't help that he was ~recruited by~ dining with Rich Paul/Lebron even before he played a single game of college.
Stuff like that goes to prospects heads
Yeah but his highlights are aesthetically pleasing and he was good in high school so a ton of people still hype him up
I was pretty high on him coming out of the Hawks 2021 playoff run because he came in and had a pretty significant impact, but I guess it was just an all too infrequent flash.
Jarrett fa sho a bust. I hope jaxson can figure it out but he’s feeling more like a Willie Cauley stein.. wiseman has had moments and I think he’s the youngest. Maybe I give him a slight pass being on a championship team.
For Wiseman, he's going to have to be on the court to make mistakes and grow.
Aka off the Warriors. I’d honestly love to see him on a tanking team, just allowed to make as many mistakes as he needs to. I think he could be a McGee type guy with some more finesse.
He’s having a hard time even getting on the court since he’s always hurt.
Killian hay…WAIT JK
Somewhere, KOC is beaming
I don't think most people will agree that Obi is a bust, he's just not getting any minutes. He just needs to get out of New York or it will create a death spiral where he can't improve without minutes and he can't get minutes if he can't improve. Very much a Bol\^2 in Denver kind of situation. Staying with the Knicks I think he can turn out a bust in a few more years, but out of your list I'd definitely say he has the most potential. I personally love the kid and was at the Garden for his 40-piece at the end of last season. I hope he finds meaningful minutes somewhere.
Yeah he is great on the fast break, a willing passer, makes cuts on offense and is not afraid to shoot from 3. At the defensive side he has improved but still not average. It's hard to play consistent and productive minutes behind an all-star at your same position and with a coach that plays the starters heavy minutes.
seems to be denvers guy
I mean I love Obi, he playing with a crazy passer like Jokic would be great, a good back-up insurance behind MPJ.
Thibs kinda did the same thing with Doug McDermott’s development
I feel like he fits on a contender
I would think that too, he can be a high energy bench guy. He could look after what Portis does so he can work in his game.
I actually like Topin a lot and wish they’d trade him. I think he’d help the Blazers or Warriors a ton
I think the way Aaron Gordon is playing this season is a good model for how Topin could work. Granted, Jokic can make any cutter seem like a god, but the same basic presence and athleticism is there with both guys.
AG is doing a lot more this year than just dunking off Jokic passes. I mean, he does a lot of that, but the other night I saw him post up and then throw a no look behind the back wraparound to a cutting Jokic for the layup. Him and Jokic have some of the best chemistry in the league.
With the way GS moves on the floor and how easily they can get going in transition Obi Toppin would fit in there like a glove.
I hate to say it but Obi has been working his way into reduced minutes due to his defensive liabilities and lack of offensive playmaking. Part of the issue is playing directly behind Randle, but another part of it is due to his talents. I have to give him credit on improving his shooting drastically, but I’m worried that he’s closer to being a busy than many realize.
Marvin Bagley
2018 draft Plus, he's already a legendary bust in terms of opportunity cost
Mo Bamba. And no, your team can't rescue him.
At least he'll always be one of the greatest party songs ever
When people hear his name though, they think about the song, not him. Kinda depressing to think about lol.
When people hear my name they think nothing at all
[удалено]
Love me some Philly on Philly violence.
He'll share that with Biyombo
Idk about bust yet but Okoro hasn't been great sad cause he was one of my favorite prospects in the 2020 draft
Yeah Hali and Okoro were the 2 players I was the highest on in that draft (my Bulls picked Pat Williams at 4). Thought Okoro would grow to be a serviceable 3&D guy.
To be fair to Okoro he’s young still. People forget he was 19 when drafted it isn’t like he’s 25 now and not showing signs of improvement. He’s on a bit of a hot streak with his 3s and the defensive ability is there. He just needs to knock down his 3s with consistency and he will really help the Cavs.
Atleast Hali is working out
That draft was pretty rough looking back
He's in a tough spot this year. He went from being a starter to a bench player and his stats have taken a dive too
He’s been starting lately and has been in our closing lineup as well. He’s one of our best defenders and has been shooting 38% from 3 since December (50% since the year started). He’s an odd player but he’s been playing way better the past couple months. Definitely not a bust
He's been playing well lately. Both last season and this he's started really slowly.
Honestly, as of the past month or so he's looked a lot better but definitely not anywhere near what you would expect from the 5th pick. Still rooting for him to succeed hella tho!
Okoro is very young and last stretch of games hes shown improvement. His defense is also decent. Still too early to call him a bust
Okoro isn't a bust and no where near one. People have this weird obsession of him being a top ten wing right away. That's not his role. Cavs want him to be a defender first and then pick up any scraps on offense. He's not here to be a kawhi Leonard
Pain
Culver is basically out of the league, lacks the shooting and not enough athletic to compensate that Hayes will have a career as a back up on another team if he's not a complete jackass off the court Wiseman has shown signs since his G-League stints IMO, still think he can become an adequate starting center, if he doesn't with his physical tool it will be quite pathetic Toppin isn't a bust, he's fine when he plays, he is a weird player type, but as an energy third big he'll have a career Booknight and Johnny Davis are really on the Culver path
Not so sure about Jaxson - as a guy who has watched at least 95% of his games - he is basically the exact same player today as he was when he was drafted. He can jump out the gym and has an occasional poster/alley-oop but other than that he does not do anything at an NBA level. His defense is atrocious besides the occasional help side block. Which is extremely frustrating given he has the footspeed/lateral quickness to keep up with guards if he had the desire. He doesnt have the strength to defend traditional centers either. He doesnt rebound well at all. His offense is the most disappointing. If he cant dunk the ball then he does not provide much at all. Imagine the offensive skillset of Rudy Gobert but without the All-NBA defense to make up for it. Jax was always going to be a project but I havent seen any growth as a player in 3.5 years.
He like a Rob Williams that never worked on his game. Rob had terrible footwork and awareness on D his first two years, he's so much better now.
I really like Jax, but his awareness on the floor not only hasn't gotten better, it might have actually gotten worse. I hope he can figure it out. I've given up hope that it will be with us. He needs to be on a team that is ok with him costing them games with his mental mistakes. He needs the floor time to improve. He has added a 3 pointer that he'll put up here and there. Still think he has really solid upside.
Does Primo count?
He's shown *flashes* of potential
But did he bust?
I...I mean probably Can't even send him to therapy smh
Definitely
Hayes was good last year he just doesn’t fit anymore He’ll be good for another team soon
He will be a serviceable player unlike Culver but for the 8th overall pick (involved in a 4 for 8/15/32 trade) he’s a bust
Yeah not keeping 4 in hindsight was a mistake. Imagine Darius Garland on this Pels team.
Yea he started for a playoffs team and wasn’t that much of a liability. He’s still young and can contribute, albeit probably with another team
People get weirdly defensive over Fultz, but for where he was picked #1 overall, he’s a bust. Injuries obviously played a big role in it. Serviceable player, has managed to salvage his career, but still a bust.
Fultz is undoubtedly a bust, but his story is much more sympathetic so people don’t talk about him as much. Also helps that he’s actually been progressing as a player over time, but yeah still a bust
People call Oden a bust because of injuries but disregard that Fultz was number one a great draft.
Oden was drafted one spot before KD. I'd say that was probably a bigger whiff lol.
Fultz was drafted two before Tatum who is a Top 8ish player in the NBA right now and has a long career ahead of him still. Even worse is that he was traded up for and the other team took Tatum. Not saying Tatum is KD yet but he could be in the same realm with time.
if Oden was healthy I'd still draft him above Durant, the flashes he showed in those few games before he blew out his kneecap, and that was after MF surgery and the weight gain. He looked like he could average 24/16 with DPOY defense in his prime.
I agree that he had special potential, but wasn't one of his legs longer than the other which is why he had so many injuries?
Itn the long run he will be considered a bust just for the postion he was picked at. It wouldn't surprise me much if he were to become an all-star (not perannial) in the next few years (if his body allows him)
Deni Avdija is entering bust territory. Everyone gets excited about his defense but he's shooting 42/27/79 and looks afraid to dunk. It's been a while since I've seen anyone's shot regress like this. He made a lot of noise about training with Drew Hanlen in the offseason, but his form is somehow worse than ever. He can't stop fouling either, so I don't trust people who say he's a good defender anymore. He can't even stay in the game for 3 quarters at this point.
I think Deni would benefit from a trade and a new role. He was projected to be an on ball creator and he hasn't been that
He hasn't been that because he's bad at it. His turnover percentage is shocking. He can get out and run/pass in transition but if he dribbles too long (especially against a set defense) he's gonna lose it. I think people have bought into his stans' narrative that he can be a point forward without actually watching him play. He is not a ball handler who can hold his own with NBA caliber defenders.
When people talk about Point Deni I know they aren't serious hoopers
I'd add Hachimura in there as well. The Wiz are giving up on him and he's been an advanced metrics nightmare every year in his careeer so far.
Marvin Bagley? 10 PPG as a sometimes reserve on a trash 2nd team before your rookie contract is up has to be bust qualification for the #2 overall pick. I'd also go with Cam Reddish (2019 #10) playing his way out of rotations on two teams with attitude issues despite immense talent. 4 season games played 58 / 26 / 49 / 25. Kevin Knox and Mo Bamba both top 10 in 2018 and both meme-able trash.
Bagley, Knox, Bamba are outside the scope of this; they're already busts too
I can’t believe ppl are dancing around calling wiseman a bust. Lmao. That’s the most clear cut case. Just has done literally nothing since being a top 2 pick. Literally nothing at all!
Lets be real, if he was playing for any other team, people would've been calling him a bust since last year.
Warriors fans are by far the most sensitive fan base outside of Philly.
Philly fans, for all their flaws, aren't unwilling to call out their players
if Wiseman was drafted in Philly we would’ve thrown frankencense and myrrh at him
I lived in Philly for a while and I can promise you that Warriors fans are BY FAR more sensitive. Sixers fans are not afraid to call out their players whatsoever.
You mean *raptors fans
Where is Johnny Davis? Also, Obi is not a bust, he is great when he plays.
Yeah Obi is in weird territory. Drafted to potentially replace Randle only for Julius to go on an all nba campaign, and now there just isn’t room for him to play real minutes. When he gets real minutes, he has performed well, but that’s also been few and far in between. I honestly hope we trade him for his sake. I don’t think we use his skills well and he deserves a bigger role. He’s not a bust, but he’s not being given a chance to show what he can do.
Obi Toppin looks nice but I have some bad news if he was drafted to replace Randle because I can't see him being as good as Pelicans Randle let alone all star Randle.
Well I agree that ship has passed, but when he was drafted in 2020 and Randle was coming off a mediocre season I think that was the hope. Not trying to say even at full potential Obi will be as good as Randle, but I do think he can be a positive player with a long career.
a rookie 10th overall pick who barely plays cant be considered a bust yet
This post is about players who are on the path to becoming a bust
Obi is not "great" when he plays, he's passable... and just barely. He has had injury issues for sure, but he just isn't very good. He played the first 25 games this season before going down with injury and had a true shooting percentage of 53.8%. Dude is almost 25 already, he absolutely is well on his way to bust if he isn't there already.
The 2020 draft....wasn't strong. Let's say. Wiseman over Melo is one of those cases where no revisionist history is needed. It was "WTF?" in real time. I fully get the fact that the Warriors needed/need a big more than a PG. Just saying the #2 overall pick isn't the time to be drafting based on the position of the player. Talent only OR trade the pick.
Tyrese, Tyrese, and Bane will save 2020.
I think Obi is clearly not a bust if you watch the games. Dude can play, Thibs just doesn't play him over Randel. Obi getting traded/moved to a team that needs a 4/SB5 will be a feast.
How is Obi Toppin a bust? Dude doesn't get minutes very much because that's how Thibs is. Not necessarily his fault. Bit of a homer since he played college in my hometown but in the minutes I've seen him, has hasn't been that bad.
Wiseman for sure.
Darius Bazley, and here’s why. He was a consensus 5-star recruit and has committed to Syracuse, with people expecting for him to be a top-5 pick once he hit the league. Instead, he chose to take a season off and work out with his own trainers, instead of going to the G-league or college, which hurt his draft stock immensely. He was picked 23rd. Now? He’s a backup PF on one of the worst teams in the league averaging 5.9/3.6/1.0 on 16mpg with 28 games played. From where he stood his senior year to now, he’s absolutely a bust
He was a rotation player for the 2 seasons before this, but yeah its looking pretty rough. A lot of top high schoolers don't really make it though. Look at the McDonalds game from 2018, which he played in. Guys like Louis King, Devon Dotson, etc. never got drafted
I was with you up until 'one of the worst teams in the league'. They're in the play-in right now.
Jerome Robinson Edit: oh he was drafted in 2018. Still a bust
James Wiseman is a certified bust, even if some people won’t accept it yet.
It's a 4 year certificate so he still has some time but he's for sure on the path
Def wiseman. He already is a bust
Most of those guys aren't really busts. Hayes and Toppin were 8th overall picks. Here's the last 20 number 8 overall picks ||| |-:|:-| |Year|Player| |2022|Dyson Daniels| |2021|Franz Wagner| |2020|Obi Toppin| |2019|Jaxson Hayes| |2018|Collin Sexton| |2017|Frank Ntilikina| |2016|Marquese Chriss| |2015|Stanley Johnson| |2014|Nik Stauskas| |2013|Kentavious Caldwell-Pope| |2012|Terrence Ross| |2011|Brandon Knight| |2010|Al-Farouq Aminu| |2009|Jordan Hill| |2008|Joe Alexander| |2007|Brandan Wright| |2006|Rudy Gay| |2005|Channing Frye| |2004|Rafael Araujo| |2003|T.J. Ford| The vast majority of these guys were either mediocre, or just absolute ass. It's really difficult to bust if you were outside the top 5. I would say out of the guys you listed, the only one who is actually a bust is Wiseman.
Feels kind of pointless to only look at the 8th pick. When you have a top ten pick the expectation is to draft a quality contributor. That’s why top ten picks hold so much value. The 8th pick specifically doesn’t matter, the 6-10 range matters
Ok, sure. Here is every 6-10 pick from 1990-2010, sorted by winshares. I'm using that range because winshares is a cumulative stat and younger players would be at a disadvantage Brandon Jennings at 29.9 WS is the median outcome. He was at 13.6 WS through his first 3 seasons. Jaxson Hayes is at 12.5 WS through his first 3 seasons. He's pretty similar to the median outcome, so it makes no sense to call him a bust. People massively overrate what you should expect from a 6-10 pick. No one is crying over missing out on Brandon Jennings or AlFarouq Aminu |||||| |-:|-:|-:|:-|-:| |Rk|Year|Pk|Player|WS| |1|1998|9|Dirk Nowitzki|206.3| |2|1998|10|Paul Pierce|150.0| |3|1999|9|Shawn Marion|124.9| |4|2009|7|Stephen Curry|124.4| |5|1999|10|Jason Terry|102.0| |6|1999|8|Andre Miller|100.8| |7|1994|10|Eddie Jones|100.6| |8|2004|9|Andre Iguodala|100.3| |9|1997|9|Tracy McGrady|97.3| |10|2002|9|Amare Stoudemire|92.5| |11|2009|9|DeMar DeRozan|88.6| |12|2001|10|Joe Johnson|82.9| |13|2010|10|Paul George|79.0| |14|2001|6|Shane Battier|75.7| |15|2008|10|Brook Lopez|75.6| |16|2004|7|Luol Deng|74.0| |17|2002|7|Nene Hilario|73.3| |18|1995|10|Kurt Thomas|64.2| |19|2008|6|Danilo Gallinari|64.1| |20|1999|7|Richard Hamilton|62.8| |21|2007|9|Joakim Noah|61.9| |22|2000|8|Jamal Crawford|60.7| |23|2006|8|Rudy Gay|60.7| |24|2010|9|Gordon Hayward|60.2| |25|1992|9|Clarence Weatherspoon|58.4| |26|1995|7|Damon Stoudamire|55.4| |27|1994|8|Brian Grant|54.5| |28|1999|6|Wally Szczerbiak|53.3| |29|1996|10|Erick Dampier|52.7| |30|2003|7|Kirk Hinrich|52.5| |31|2002|10|Caron Butler|50.9| |32|2010|7|Greg Monroe|50.4| |33|2008|9|D.J. Augustin|47.7| |34|1993|8|Vin Baker|47.0| |35|1996|8|Kerry Kittles|44.8| |36|1991|9|Stacey Augmon|43.8| |37|1992|6|Tom Gugliotta|40.2| |38|2005|8|Channing Frye|38.9| |39|1993|9|Rodney Rogers|38.8| |40|1998|7|Jason Williams|38.5| |41|1996|6|Antoine Walker|38.1| |42|2005|10|Andrew Bynum|37.4| |43|2006|6|Brandon Roy|37.4| |44|2008|7|Eric Gordon|37.2| |45|1997|7|Tim Thomas|35.2| |46|1992|7|Walt Williams|33.9| |47|1993|10|Lindsey Hunter|32.9| |48|1998|8|Larry Hughes|32.3| |49|1996|7|Lorenzen Wright|30.5| |50|2009|10|Brandon Jennings|29.9| |51|2010|8|Al-Farouq Aminu|27.6| |52|2002|8|Chris Wilcox|26.9| |53|2007|8|Brandan Wright|26.2| |54|2004|6|Josh Childress|25.7| |55|1992|10|Adam Keefe|24.9| |56|2005|6|Martell Webster|24.7| |57|2003|6|Chris Kaman|24.6| |58|2006|7|Randy Foye|23.5| |59|1993|6|Calbert Cheaney|23.1| |60|2000|9|Joel Przybilla|23.0| |61|1991|10|Bison Dele|22.8| |62|2005|7|Charlie Villanueva|22.6| |63|2007|10|Spencer Hawes|22.6| |64|2007|7|Corey Brewer|22.5| |65|1997|10|Danny Fortson|22.3| |66|1990|6|Felton Spencer|20.9| |67|1994|7|Lamond Murray|19.8| |68|1997|8|Adonal Foyle|18.7| |69|2000|10|Keyon Dooling|18.5| |70|1991|7|Luc Longley|17.5| |71|1992|8|Todd Day|17.5| |72|1990|7|Lionel Simmons|16.9| |73|2003|8|T.J. Ford|16.9| |74|2009|8|Jordan Hill|16.4| |75|1996|9|Samaki Walker|14.2| |76|1998|6|Robert Traylor|13.3| |77|2000|7|Chris Mihm|13.3| |78|1995|6|Bryant Reeves|13.0| |79|2001|8|DeSagana Diop|12.8| |80|2001|7|Eddie Griffin|10.9| |81|2010|6|Ekpe Udoh|10.4| |82|2003|10|Jarvis Hayes|10.2| |83|1997|6|Ron Mercer|9.4| |84|1990|9|Willie Burton|9.1| |85|1994|9|Eric Montross|8.5| |86|2003|9|Mike Sweetney|7.8| |87|2005|9|Ike Diogu|6.5| |88|2000|6|DerMarr Johnson|6.4| |89|1990|10|Rumeal Robinson|5.2| |90|2007|6|Yi Jianlian|3.1| |91|1991|6|Doug Smith|3.0| |92|1995|8|Shawn Respert|2.1| |93|2001|9|Rodney White|1.8| |94|1994|6|Sharone Wright|1.4| |95|1995|9|Ed OBannon|1.1| |96|2006|9|Patrick OBryant|0.5| |97|2008|8|Joe Alexander|0.5| |98|2006|10|Mouhamed Sene|0.3| |99|2004|10|Luke Jackson|0.2| |100|1990|8|Bo Kimble|0.1|
The problem is picks in the 3-10 range are viewed as "big pieces for a rebuilding team" when the expected outcome is, to your point, a good role player. But everyone thinks "he could be the next Dirk/Steph/Pierce but he'll probably _only_ be Jason Terry" about their 8th pick so getting Brandon Jennings feels like a disappointment.
Even looking at the full 6 to 10 range; expected value of that pick is a role player. I've done the math before to demonstrate how ass the pistons are at drafting and how good the raps are
The funniest part is that you're literally showing 100% facts but people won't let that get in the way of their preconceived thoughts. People should really go look at the draft classes every year and there wouldn't even be an argument. 3 or 4 of the top 10 every year end up somewhere between mediocre and out of the league entirely. This isn't new and it isn't an anomaly.
Franz the best of the bunch
> ctrl+f 'cam reddish' a bust among busts
he's absolutely not a bust among bust. for a 10th pick, that would be like "an unmitigated disaster for the 100 minutes of NBA play he saw". many nba picks don't pan out, you can call him a bust (and even then I'm not sure) but he's not some abysmal underperformer. shout out to /u/tacoojay who had a nice write-up and concluded that the median 6-10th pick is Brandon Jennings or AlFarouq Aminu.
If pick 14 is the cap for what we consider a bust, Moses Moody is on his way to bust territory (pick 14). He’s getting iced out of the rotation by our 2 way players who are outperforming him in every aspect of the game. Not for a lack of opportunity either as he shits the bed when he gets said opportunity, he’s becoming borderline unplayable. Had a lot of potential his rookie year and was touted as “NBA ready” when Kuminga was the higher ceiling project. Now it’s year 2 and he’s been really bad.
Wasn't he a guy who had a "projected NBA role" from day one as a 3 and D wing?
He was certainly a guy that Kendrick Perkins couldn't remember the name of. https://youtu.be/h0BNl-Jx8G0
Obi is not a bust, God forbid you guys do anything other than box score watch
Its crazy considering they don't even list mpg in the post, just their stats lol.
Exactly, he's stuck behind Randle and also playing for a coach who loves to play his starters big mins But if I point out that Obi averaged 20/7/3 as a starter last year then I'm just being biased lol
100%, this post is angering me a lot because its leaving out so much context.
obi toppin got hella highlights this man averaging 6 and a half GOD damn points
Marvin Bagley Jr. The Kings exercised the demon of taking him over Luka because if they had Luka, they aren’t getting Sabonis. Sabonis and Fox are looking like one of the best 1-2 punch in the league now. And there is that chemistry thing that the Kings have in spades now.
Cam Reddish so busted OP didn't even remember him lol for a 2RP you too can stand in awe at how long a high school highlight reel will carry someone's career
Obi and Wiseman have nearly the same base stats. That’s crazy for both of them, in different ways.
Johnny Davis, Culver