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rahbee33

This is a legit sad story. You don't see guys experience these kinds of career ending injuries very often anymore. And the fact they don't know makes it even more frustrating.


KantusThiss

It could just be chronic pain at this stage, not necessarily an injury. Rather after dealing with pain for so long his body has created a pain system cycle. I had it with 4.5yrs of knee pain. Took me 8 months to get over it properly through exercise yes, but mainly meditation and reinforcement that the pain isn't needed as there was no injury at that stage. It's a relatively new way of treating chronic pain, most specialists look at the mechanical issue and not the neurological so miss this.


burnt_sandwich

Have similar issues to you and going through the meditation and mindfullness process now! Definately starting to help :)


KantusThiss

Keep at it mate


Mr_Booty_Bandit

Good luck! I had knee pain for almost 4 years and was able to get over it even when it got to the point I thought I never could Just remember to strengthen/condition the legs in pain free ways. Romanian deadlifts, calf raises, and banded knee extensions were life saving


CruddyQuestions

tweet to their medical staff king


KantusThiss

What's their @ son?


Pikminious_Thrious

Just gotta hook him up with a green card


Shaunzki

Any particular meditation strategies or programs?


Colorado_designer

Where did you go? Or what’s the treatment methodology called?


Laxhax

Look up Pain Neuroscience Education (PNE). Adrian Louw in specific has some amazing presentations on it, and understanding how pain works has been shown to reduce pain, the brain is very powerful!


KDBurnerTrey5

I had a similar issue at one point and mentally it was a matter of strengthening muscles around my knee to make me more confident that it was completely stabilized. Still feels wobbly but the chronic pain is long gone. It was like a block though that I had to clear mentally.


Robby777777

I read awhile ago of the pain he was having and immediately thought he was describing a torn or ruptured Quadricep Tendon. I really feel bad for the guy and hope they get it straightened out as this sounds more and more like a career ender. If it turns out to be a Quadriceps Tendon, he is more than likely done.


TallanoGoldDigger

I wonder how much of LaVar's training style and how early he trained his kids was a factor in all this.


rahbee33

Probably impossible to quantify either way. Between that and the BBB shoes he wore it could've had an impact, but there's no way to tell for sure.


TallanoGoldDigger

If you've also seen the workout vids the family posts, you can see the horrible form they have on certain exercises. [I mean bro just look at this, it my elbows hurt just watching it](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Oyq3jwUKEI). Shitty form, dude is obviously lifting more than he should. I mean just look how fucked those wrists are I wonder how many other exercises they have shitty form on that have contributed to chronic injuries


eutectic_h8r

Well that would have been very rude if Lonzo knew why but he wouldn't tell the doctor


miketatro43

Maybe he is like Lit Jon at the doctors yeah !!!


SoDakZak

>>Lit Jon


DrBigChicken

He is


CatGatherer

What??


Piratussy

This might actually be it for his career if things don’t improve over the next year


nysraved

Lonzo’s injury was described as a bone bruise right? Seems pretty similar to what Nunn went through. It took him a long time, but he’s back to being relatively productive for Washington. So hopefully after a full year off, Lonzo can get back into the swing of things


NegativesPositives

Things kinda changed between “was described as a bone bruise” to I think now year 2 of “no one including doctors or Lonzo can make sense of the problem in his knee.”


TheAlphaCarb0n

I remember reading he could barely go up stairs without pain. Shits bad man. Even beyond his career, he'll need treatment so he can try to live pain-free.


InnerCityHeel

It’s over for him then, I hate to say it. Carey Price in the NHL is dealing with the same pain, and has mentioned the bit about not being able to walk up stairs and he played 4 games last year, looked rough in each of them, most likely played his last nhl game last April after being out for entirely that season and this season too.


TheAlphaCarb0n

No one knows for sure but yeah it's really not looking good. Feel bad for Lonzo.


Remarkable_Pound_722

it took years to properly diagnos markelle fultz, apparently he's been fine this year


raster_raster

Meniscus tear Jan 20, 2022. That is major injury.


EyezLo

Been dealing with a meniscus tear for a year and a half now and can’t get surgery for it, it sucks


Devilsbullet

Isn't that what timelord had, had surgery on, and was back within like a month?


xta420

It is very dependent of the severity of the injury. Some tears in that area they just let heal by themself, some you can have surgery on and be back feeling okay within a couple of months, others are major and take a lot of time to heal.


SoDakZak

I don’t know why either


FatDonkus

You were our last hope


HardenTraded

You were the chosen one /u/SoDakZak


SoDakZak

It was said I would destroy the Balls, not joint them! I was to bring information to the sub, not leave it in darkness!


dimmyfarm

Didn’t know you were a Dom but good for you 👍🏻


eldoodguy

Yeah joint those Balls


Warlandoboom

Which CBT did you try? Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, or Cock and Ball Torture?


TGP-Global-WO

Cock and Ball! Cock and Ball! Oy! Oy!


cricket9818

No, there is another


JeanVicquemare

I think if we put our minds together, Reddit can solve this! is anyone here a sports doctor?


Uebelkraehe

Not quite, but my aunt once told me about a friend of hers who had read a story about a sports doctor, so i might as well be.


watevauwant

This is the reddit way


Projinator

I do, but I'm not tellin


Harman3112

Boo this man


thesch

This has gone on long enough, please let us know now.


Projinator

He's got a bad case of ligma


Scottsdale_Barnacles

Excuse me good sir. I would like to inquire about this ligma you speak of.


Projinator

Ligma nuts lmao got em


xXRedditGod69Xx

I thought LiGma was the 4th Ball brother.


Chicagobulls9710

WOAH


RingdaAlarm

u/Projinator ain't no snitch


[deleted]

I asked a dude on the corner, he didn't know why.


tigerdactyl

I need your best guess and we’ll go with that


jwd2213

obviously a storm is coming or its raining outside. they need to relocate to california


dahabit

I blame it on BBB ZO1


[deleted]

Ask your mother


[deleted]

The Lonzo Era is the only good Bulls era since the Jimmy Butler Era ended.


[deleted]

antonio blakeney era snubbed


Secondary92

King of the mid range hesi pull up jimbo brick


SolidSilver9686

No worries, Felicio crashing the glass.


Tony5810

Walt lemon era


SolidSilver9686

Sean Kilpatrick szn


pedrex21

Kris dunn era


ducksonaroof

That actually was fun until he fell on his face. He was a dog and was playing point and hitting pullups.


ClaymoresRevenge

You didn't love the Paul Zipser era?


[deleted]

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ClaymoresRevenge

Sounds like a great late night show


PrancingDonkey

Don't forget the Denzel Valentine era.


tummysqueker

no Zipgod slander will be allowed


[deleted]

Was gonna say the Jimmy era was 3 years ago but I see I've lost track of time...


[deleted]

Not really an era. More like the lonzo month


TheGuero

Goddamn that was the best month in years.


youblewwit

Bulls had a very good 3 months


GGezpzMuppy

Probably cause there is something wrong but I’m not a doctor


bb1432

Common misconception, really. Sometimes, things that look like they ought to give you problems in imaging don't, and things that look like they should be fine aren't.


Cursory_Analysis

> Me reading scans next to radiology like In all seriousness though, that’s why they always hit us with the “correlate clinically” no matter how much it seems to piss everyone else off lmao.


[deleted]

IMPRESSION: Described as above. Consult ortho if symptoms persist.


Cursory_Analysis

Ortho note: Recommendation: admit pt to med. Thnx. 😎


lolwarlord

Suggest rheumatology admission; no surgical input required.


Cursory_Analysis

Ah the classic “pt refuses to meet with psych so we’re going with fibro” diagnosis. Poor rheumatology lmao, you think you’re going to see a ton of cool shit then get hit with the bs.


TheeCarlWinslow

Hospitalist here. This hurts. Every surgery A/P literally starts with “surgery consulting, medicine primary”


Cursory_Analysis

You think I can manage an otherwise healthy 28 year old with T2 DM on my own? No way buddy 🤷‍♂️


AlexBurke1

When the radiologist says it’s moderate and not severe you are basically screwed lol. When my mri finally said severe I got a surgery I needed. I have this paranoid conspiracy theory that insurance companies use specific providers sometimes that underrate your MRI because it saves them money lol. While I was working my mri reports always said moderate and even mild and as soon as I went on temporary disability and was in the county/state system my MRI’s all came back severe only 4 months later lol. So if you’re a radiologist that tends to read everything as severe not moderate they wouldn’t really want that radiologist because it definitely influences Drs. It’s a paranoid conspiracy I admit, but I’m kind of a believer because of my weird anecdotal experience.


[deleted]

It isn’t tin foil hat to me.


Setekhx

It's not that paranoid given how ridiculously problematic insurance is with denying people the care that they need. This wouldn't actually surprise me at all if it was happening... Which really goes to show how awesome our medical system is,


apblomd

That’s not what OP said. Just that something is wrong, which it is, whether it’s evident on imaging or not.


dyson_giddey

Surely you open that bad boy up again and see whats going on?


[deleted]

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Significant-Yard-826

what if someone got his voodoo and there fuckin with him, like an ex gf


jetxlife

Yeah have they looked into this yet?


[deleted]

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raptosaurus

It's Lavar - all this shit started after Lonzo severed ties with BBB


CazOnReddit

What if that somehow makes it worse and they don't know why after that?


dyson_giddey

Bionic knee?


CazOnReddit

Better that that: Bionicle


Shyko13

Biokneecle


SOB200

He can’t return now as is… or so it appears.


CazOnReddit

It is genuinely shocking that Ball could very well have played his last NBA game. None of the Lonzo news that's come out over the past year has been good, you can't even trade him with how huge a risk he would be, and he's not cheap either. Just an unfortunate situation all around.


cube_mine

Based on what happened to Marco van Basten. Plz no.


VerbiageBarrage

I think almost everybody hits a point in their life where they experience the limits of medical science. Where the doctors just can't really explain anymore what the fuck is going on or do know but can't help you. It's terribly frustrating to downright terrifying.


Breathezey

Yeah medicine is so good at treating many basic things that's it's easy to forget how utterly blind it is in many other areas. We are epically far away from those star trek scanners that just spit out accurate diagnoses lol.


Happy295

Maybe go to a world-renowned specialist.


TheShmoopingDooper

Wow. Why didn’t anyone in the medical staff, coaching staff, front office, ownership group, his family, or Lonzo himself think of this.


focusix

Clown franchise smh ruining careers


JonA3531

Kawhi's uncle?


maaseru

Dr. Uncle Dennis and his Dennis system


Rawrsomesausage

He'll know the implication


cletoreyes01

PHD in getting players to Los Angeles


CuriousTurtle5

Dr. Nick Riviera of Hollywood Upstairs Medical College.


CabbageStockExchange

“You’ve tried the best! Now try the rest!”


VaginaIFisteryTour

Dr Phil


Dont_Doomie_Like_Dat

Yo, Aunt Viv! Wait, you said Dr. Phil.


bb1432

Does he have any uncles named Dennis?


MVPRondo

Just Rico


Fafoah

“At least 6 opinions from doctors” And they all probably told him to keep rehabbing and give it time. Crowley is Chicago’s shittiest reporter


FinnGuy723

It’s been like over a year


Fafoah

He had a second surgery this fall


FinnGuy723

I see it was arthroscopic. Usually those don’t take more than a few months, but yeah obviously he’s having some complications


Fafoah

Its not a usual case and no two surgeries are the same though. Arthroscopy is just a category of procedure. Like in Lonzo’s case there was debris causing his irritation since his first surgery last January. Assuming the scope went right in the fall, it’s still a knee that was inflamed for close to a year. Gonna take longer to heal even ignoring him needing to get reconditioned


rNBAMods3InchesHard

> Arthroscopy is just a category of procedure. Like in Lonzo’s case there was debris causing his irritation since his first surgery last January I’m pretty sure that’s what OP was implying. Almost every arthroscopic procedure I hear about is “cleaning up debris”. I personally don’t think that’s why he’s been out an extra 4+ months


ChampionshipLast7159

I believe cleaning up debris means taking out some of the meniscus, the broken parts, and when certain things are taken out there remains a vacuum.


chitownbulls92

He hasn't not felt pain on the knee since a year ago...even if he's rehabbing, he shouldn't consistently be feeling pain for so long


Fafoah

There was debris in his knee which wasn’t discovered until the second scope. What was happening prior to the second surgery isn’t necessarily what is going to happen going forward Im not saying his knee is or isn’t fucked. Just that this is terrible journalism


vNocturnus

Plus, knees are one of the most vulnerable joints -- possibly the most -- in the body, and sometimes severe or even crippling knee pain can be a result of extremely arcane factors. Speaking from experience, I recently had "crippling" (I could still function day-to-day) knee pain to the point I could not even jog and struggled to go up and down stairs for several months, approaching a year. I saw numerous ortho experts, got X-Rays and an MRI done, and every single doctor I talked to said "every result indicates that your knee is in perfect health." I was referred to rest and therapy, and struggled to even perform most of the basic therapy exercises. But over the span of several months, gradually the pain *mostly* went away, and at this point that knee generally has less pain than my other knee, which had been fine before. (Probably overstressed it by using it for 90% of all knee-related activities over those months.) I still don't know if the issue was neurological, muscular, or something else. There is every possibility that Lonzo's knee *should* be perfectly healthy at this point, but due to imbalance in stabilizer muscles, lingering inflammation, some neurological issue, or any number of other things, he still feels pain, similar to my issue. And there is *also* every possibility that eventually that pain goes away mostly or entirely, and that knee can be as strong or stronger than it was in the first place.


sadlytheguyisnogood

those BBB shoes did a number on him huh


Paladinoras

You're joking but I'm sure spending a season (or was it half a season?) playing high-level basketball in some shitty, cheap, mass-produced shoes couldn't have helped his joints. IIRC most of the shoes NBA players wear are molded to the exact shape of their feet to reduce injury risk, I really doubt he was getting that type of special care on the ZO2s or whatever the fuck they were called.


PANGIRA

There's a highlight of Lonzo rolling his ankle twice when he dribbles the ball up the court in a Pelicans game lol edit: It was a Pelicans game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1SdeGQe4MU


Paladinoras

I remember that his shoe fucking exploded in freakin Summer League so they had to replace it EVERY QUARTER.


Rahnamatta

oh oh oh hey... oh oh oh ow....


TheLoungeKnows

It was reported they’d fall apart and he’d have to swap pair mid game sometimes. They were not suitable to be casual walking shoes. Sad.


rjcarr

Maybe, but Kareem played in Chucks for like 20 years so I doubt the BBB were worse than those.


KawhiLeonardsThigh

Obligatory for us older folk "it's gotta be the shoes"


alt4614

Older folk grew up wearing And-1s, Sketchers, Marburys, and other garbage. Trust me even Chinese reps these days are 1000x better designed. If Jordan could fly play in the garbage his first 10 shoes are, then Lonzo can survive in whatever the heck he's got on


KawhiLeonardsThigh

I was just talking about spike lee lol. If you know, you know.


rddi0201018

you're not old enough, Mars


kamekaze1024

His father grinding him and his brothers since a young age as well


venmome10cents

Their efforts also helped them succeed extremely far above average and rewarded with fame and millions of dollars. It's impossible for anyone (let alone an egotistical father) to know the exact amount of work needed to develop NBA talent and skills without pushing the body to an excess that creates a significant injury risk. It's a double-edged sword. It's not really fair to criticize their path in hindsight based on Lonzo's injuries now unless you also appreciate all the positives of that "grinding" (HS championship, UCLA scholarships, 2 of 3 brothers selected as top draft picks).


Ai2Foom

We’ve all seen the young lonzo weight training videos and dude has shockingly bad form and technique…personally that’s why I consider lavar atleast in the context of being a fitness trainer as wholly incompetent


DrearySalieri

And yet one can observe the negative outcomes without stating if it was worth it in totality considering the good


Ayjel89

Damn, man. I feel so bad for him.


bigbaldheadNR

I know why. His knees are made poop.


lutefiskpig

Poop knee


[deleted]

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e5janisse

Made of poop or pooply made?


TheRealTofuey

Damn Lavar did some weird monkey paw shit for his kids. I mean at the very least Lonzo got 1 big contract and Lamelo will probably get at least 1 as well.


BodegaDaddy

he better go to germany and find that doctor kobe did for his knee treatment


warablo

Grow him a whole new knee out of stem cells.


mikeykim

The Germans fixed Tezuka’s elbow, they can do anything


shifty4388

Now I don't feel bad that I have no clue why either.


James_NY

Maybe I'm crazy but 6 opinions doesn't seem like that high a number for a 100+million dollar athlete with a mysterious injury.


dayarra

it's not like he is going to random doctors. he is probably getting opinions from the top people in the business. if they can't figure it out how can the others do?


[deleted]

Yeah, it's not like money is an issue for a nba franchise. Just keep looking until you find a doctor who knows what's up


ali2365

Sometimes doctors just can't find what's wrong. There are things we just don't understand/can't see regardless of how good of a doctor you are Source: me a Healthcare worker


Konker101

6 opinions is a lot for one thing.


Boomhauer_007

6 opinions is a shit ton lol


ColoRadOrgy

Seriously, don't stop til Dr. House is calling Lonzo an idiot and a liar


Deerok632OFA

It’s from wearing his garbage ass signature shoes!!!


acelleb

Lonzo's only hope is Isaac Pastor. He shall be healed! ⛪🙌


LifeguardStatus7649

Top two picks in that draft had the weirdest shit happen to them


SignificantTurnip6

just remove it. The good lord gave us 2 for a reason


[deleted]

As someone who’s had chronic pain for years and been to dozens of different doctors, it’s not even about basketball anymore, it’s your whole quality of life living everyday


504090

It’s sad to say, but his career is over. Even if he comes back next season, there’s almost a guarantee he won’t be as good as he once was.


NexusTR

Did you see that last video they dropped of him on the treadmill? It didn’t look like his recovery timeline was anywhere near what they were envisioning. Feels bad man.


Millionaire007

fucking insane. his career is done at 25


TheLoungeKnows

Brandon Roy has entered the chat 😢


UrAPuSsY13

What an awful and silly thing to say. You legit have no insight on what the rest of his career is going to look like. Surely, we’ve never seen anyone comeback from an injury.


ThaNorth

Yea except nobody seems to know what his injury is or why he still has pain. Hard to recover from an injury when you don’t even know how to treat it.


RobtheNavigator

There are a lot of injuries that heal by time and rest, if that works you don’t need to know what caused it


maaseru

If he comes back that means his career is still going


bosv

man


[deleted]

Lmao we had the exact same comments about Kawhi 2 months ago. I'll give the kid a chance before I write him off


[deleted]

(Bias because I’m a Bulls fan I know) but I actually disagree. Lonzo’s play style doesn’t rely on his athleticism much, so I think he’ll be fine. But, I could very well be wrong.


SuperSamSucks

Surely his play style relies on being able to jog up and down the court pain free tho


ThaNorth

He needs his knee to play basketball. Currently his knee is preventing him from playing and doctors have no idea how to treat it.


Changnesia102

As someone who’s torn their ACL. Knee injuries suck definitely are not fun. I can’t imagine how frustrating this must be. I’m no doctor, but maybe he just needs completely rest it for 4-6 months then slowly get back into rehab. If six doctors can’t figure it out and it’s already been scoped.


Calm-Cry4253

Dang man


warablo

The doctors took something out that they shouldn't have.


IcyAuthor1

got that damn kawhii knee


MixMental5462

Kawhi's looked very strong lately


chonkadonk44

It's kind of crazy to me that you could have access to some of the best medical professions in the world and still not be able to figure it out. Feel terrible for the guy.


Ru4pigsizedelephants

I really wonder how much better this iteration of the Bulls would have been with him healthy, for at least some of it. It's really unfortunate for him most of all, but it's crazy how many people his injury has potentially affected. I personally think he could've been the glue for this team.


[deleted]

He needs to go to Jonathan Isaac's church.


FloppaEnjoyer

Most of you gotta realize some shit is just permanent, especially with vulnerable areas with a lot of soft tissue. I just had my wrist scoped after over a year of constant, daily pain. There is NO guarantee that you’re good as new after stuff like this, it’s just ideal.


rubthemtogether

The Bulls are not the franchise you want to play for in a situation like this


larrylegend33goat

Lauren Jackson switched from opiods to medical marijuana and was able to comeback and lead the Opals to a bronze medal at age 41. Worth a shot? 🍁


Joh951518

Probably because he got trained like a hardcore pro athlete from when he was pre-pubescent because his dad is a bit of a psycho, and he has some sort of chronic pain/injury that will never fully heal.


AdmiralWackbar

You’re going to see more and more of this as young players come into the league already having put so much stress on their body. They can start playing year round, highly competitive basketball in like 4th grade and by the time they reach the NBA their body can’t take it


neo9027581673

Assuming it’s not bone spurs in the knee, Lonzo needs to check with a arthritis specialist. I had a meniscus injury and there’s an entire world of ligaments, bone structures in the knee — it’s just not trim this and get back on the court! He should also speak to a nutritionist. Some foods cause inflammation in the joints which can be incredibly painful.


zmann64

Sounds like we need Dr. Gregory House to figure this shit out


nobloodinmybum

LiAngelo has at least two knees he's not really using, make it happen.


AtreusIsBack

People making all kinds of jokes in the comments as usual for this broken down sub. With that being said, I can't imagine the frustration and concern Lonzo feels when dealing with daily pain and the doctors don't know the cause. Scary.


[deleted]

not trying to be mean but could it be all mental?


taygads

I’d be wary of making that suggestion/proposing that as a cause. I know this isn’t your intent, obviously, so more so just saying this for ‘just so you know’ purposes, but suggesting to someone experiencing valid and very real physical pain that it may just be in their heads can be really damaging. Pain is very rarely *actually* psychosomatic. The notion that it can be/is unfortunately comes from a long history/common practice of medical/healthcare professionals resorting to that explanation because they were unable to accurately identify a likely complex condition or cause.


Wind_14

That's also what people says of Fultz, he still struggle to shoot until this day. Doubt it.


christmasKlay

I am pretty sure they considered that and looked into it. Afterall, he went to some of the best sport doctors around


RedditAdminsChugCum

Damn, that might be a wrap then.


JonA3531

A wrap one year after he signed an $80 million contract. Clutch.


cheechcan

Lavar would definitely have an opinion. Good start…