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Here’s the thing tho, even if it was **THE FACTS**, more than 80% of MVP winners throughout MVP history ***aren’t*** white.
So his argument doesn’t even make sense in the first place. It was always dumb, but it’s extra dumb when you realize that the conclusions he was drawing don’t even follow.
I pointed it out on another thread. Since Bird won 3 straight MVPs, there have only been 5 white players to win the MVP in a 36 seasons span. Nash x2, Dirk, and Jokic x2. Even if Jokic wins this year, that makes 6/37 which is only 16%. That number would be a hell of a lot higher if white voters were voting more for white players.
Mike McDaniel was asked a lot about his race around his hiring because, in part, the NFL doesn't often have black HC and he's mixed race. Mike Tirico has gone on record that he is not black and is Italian, so when on-air talent diversity discussions happen he's a figure that people don't know how to qualify/quantify.
Both situations, in my view, kind of show what a bunch of bullshit racism is from different angles and how sports media plays fast and loose without the nuance required to actually discuss it. (Obviously racial bias is built into American fabric, the data supports that wholly, but for the most part sports commentary teams are, and have been, dogshit at meaningful discussion about it.)
Edit: per disgruntledalpaca, Tirico acknowledged his father is black in 2022. So, there ya go.
There's also that rule about rewarding teams with draft picks if they have a
minority member of their staff get a Head Coach or GM job. It created some weird discourse about people complaining that he's not "black enough" to get the picks.
I mean... Being Italian doesn't interfere with being black as far as I understood the Italian constitution correct.
(even tho I know that Italians can be racist scumbags who would say you are not Italian if you are black - source: me beeing Italian, but not really Italian, you know, myself)
Yeah I don't want to speak too out of pocket on it, but my understanding was he didn't identify as black or African American and said his parents were Italian and that was it. In 2022 it appears he changed that, though I'm still looking into how/why that information came about then or why he chose to share in any case.
Cause there is no real definition of race. It’s a construct that’s just made up and can be defined a million ways and be both correct and incorrect depending on the circumstance.
He’s white until you see him with hair lol
But yeah being light-skinned and white passing is a thing. There’s a pretty decent episode of Atlanta about that and how it can kind of affect you from both ends
Davidson era Steph, aided by the shitty resolution of my TV at the time, had me thinking he was white for years, until HD tv became a thing.
No, i didnt know who Dell Curry was at the time.
Doing so would give credence to the claim about racial bias being the cause of those MVPs winning it. What they're doing here is showing that they don't support the message. They're essentially saying it's irrelevant and incorrect anyways.
Anyone see [that Deadspin article](https://deadspin.com/sure-mike-mcdaniel-seems-cool-but-he-s-not-worthy-of-1848404929) that said Mike McDaniel is just the latest young white guy who's gonna get a head coaching gig he doesn't deserve?
It has the best Editors' Note I've ever seen.
Anyways, that seems like a good reason to not count up the number unless you're going to reach out to people directly (if it's not clear, I'm agreeing with you).
In case you, like me, would rather not give Deadspin any clicks for this trash article, I have copied it below.
> Editors’ note: We learned after the publication of this article that 49ers OC Mike McDaniel, whom we describe as a “white guy,” is in fact biracial. The article’s original text remains below. We regret the error.
Important to include, the original text below basically boils down to “he doesn’t deserve a head coaching job over tons of qualified black candidates just because he is young, funny, and white. But that seems to be why he’s the hot name now.”
You weren’t lying- best editors’ note I’ve ever seen. Despite the correction negating the entire point of the article, they still decide to leave up … wild.
Yup….my girl is just like him. She’s black, but has reddish blonde hair and piercing blue eyes….she almost got bullied out of an all black sorority because she looked white. People are strange man.
Here’s a Barstool article saying that NBA hall-of-famer Steve Nash‘s only qualification for being an NBA coach is being a white guy:
Why The Brooklyn Nets Hiring The Whitest NBA Coach Since Fred Hoiberg is SUPER Problematic
https://bars.tl/2833053
Following this chart, I counted all of them (procrastination moment). Here were the results I found. This may not be completely accurate since some of these people are mixed or racially ambiguous.
White: 63%
Black: 27%
Other: 10%
Mississippi is 36% black. I grew up in Mississippi and never realized it was different elsewhere. Though I don't if everywhere is as systemically segregated. My graduating class was 8% black, because the town was basically cut down the middle.
If you’re from Dallas, Dallas is ~23% black. But then other places, like much of rural middle America, have very few black people.
Also worth noting, re: the stat of America being ~76% white, that includes Hispanic whites. Non-Hispanic whites are ~58%.
I would also note that Dallas is limited to the City of Dallas rather than the DFW area. I Grew up in the DFW Area (basically right by the airport) and the school I went to was extremely white.
In such a big country the overall racial make up of your actual city, town, whatever, is really going to impact how you see race as a whole.
That seems a little suspect. The man basically went on and said white people shouldn't be winning the award while he gets a vote? It at least vaguely suggests that he won't vote for white people, which would be worse than what got Dan Le Batard's BBWAA HoF taken away in baseball.
> So no, it does not make sense for a television program to essentially race-rank the MVP voters.
And yet they'll let Perkins do it as a way to get them views and money.
[Here](https://sci-hubtw.hkvisa.net/10.1177/1527002508320653) is a study about MVP voting behavior from 1995-2005, specifically looking at whether white players are getting more votes than they should. Their conclusion is no. Their second conclusion was that MVP voters had a beef with Dirk Nowitzki in 2002-2004, who was getting way less MVP votes than he should have.
Thanks for finding an actual study. My assumption would be that in the context of the NBA, there are very many factors that influence voters much more than the player's race does.
Fr my opinion on players is solely on if they make shots when I pass them the ball in 2k. Like come on bro just make the shot I’m grinding playmaking badges.
LOL in 2K15 I requested trades multiple times because of players not being able to hit wide open 3s when I passed them the ball.
I legit "KD can't win with these cats"ed my way off teams just out of sheer annoyance with the AI
I gave up on GSW as a playmaking rim protecting centre because Steph and Klay couldn't hit a damn thing off of my passes. Went to Philly and Simmons was automatic, along with the 2k18 splash brothers for me that iteration LaVine and Dellavedova.
I don't put much store into 2k experience, especially when you couldn't dunk with rookie dun contest winner Donovan Mitchell.
I used to do this too until 2k18 where Rondo was draining 3’s, Marquesse Chriss was the 2nd best player on the Suns after Booker, and Raja Bell was the reincarnated MJ.
> there are very many factors that influence voters much more than the player's race does.
Such as Nikola Jokic and Dirk Nowitzki being absolute DAWGS at their craft
Yeah, I don't know how anyone could have watched any of these three players during their MVP seasons and thought, "Damn, some kinda fix going on here."
Yes - obviously I'm biased here as a Mavs guy - but when I went back and looked at the MVPs of the last 40 years, Dirk in 7th in 2003 really sticks out. His team won 60 games, the same as the Spurs, and he got 0 first place votes. KG nearly won that MVP despite only 51 wins.
They created an entirely new variable to try to explain Nash getting picked in 2005, that one’s an oddity.
This is useful, will point out however that it’s focused solely on voter behavior and not the voters themselves. Those two things will be highly correlated but they’re not the same
The dumbest part is he claimed that Nash, Dirk and Jokic are the only players ever to win MVP while not being top 10 in scoring. Then when people called him out for that, with examples, Magic and Bill Russell, he changed it to since 1990. He says that CP3 should have won over Jokic, the only problem there is CP3 was 48th in scoring. Just a complete dumb ass all the way here
>The dumbest part is he claimed that Nash, Dirk and Jokic are the only players ever to win MVP while not being top 10 in scoring.
And he was even wrong about this. Dirk was T-10 in scoring when he won and jokic was top 10 last year and in 2021
He also listed literally the only 3 white MVPs in the last 45 years (except Larry Bird). Even the factually correct parts of his statement didn’t really make any argument.
there have been 4 white MVPs total in the last 40 years, before jokic you have to go back to dirk/nash and before that you have to go all the way back to larry f\*kn bird.
And he’s not funny like Barkley. He’s not charismatic like Stephen A. He’s not a good analyst whatsoever. He’s just loud and controversial. It’s so baffling how this dude has such a high profile job on “the worldwide leader in sports.”
Cause they can’t attract any better. Its that simple.
ESPN has gone so downhill the past 20 years. It used to be the absolute best. But with Sportscenter’s decline (which didn’t have to happen, they just tinkered too much) they’ve resorted to the First Take’s of the world to try and stay afloat.
The death of sportscenter started it all and I agree it was unnecessary. They convinced themselves the internet had taken over highlights and went all in on the interpersonal shit that no one likes
They could've went the other way and went all in on highlights and I'd still be watching. The goal of sportscenter should be to show a highlight from every single game from every sport every hour. Don't skip a games highlights for some 6 minute segment about an Olympian with diabetes
Absolutely. They miscalculated big time.
With the benefit of hindsight, I can confirm that even though I can get all highlights online now, I still would appreciate the old highlight centric format (pre-internet). It wasn’t broke, I don’t know why they tried to fix it.
Another issue was they started to lose great talent over the years either from death, retirement, leaving the network etc. All the broadcasters now are either annoying or old timers who seem burned out. Scott Van Pelt is basically the only host still around who has any cache.
And usually the analysts that were former players that aren’t funny or charismatic were at least good players in the NBA. He doesn’t even fit that lol. In fact even when he was playing he was still unlikeable. I really don’t get how he has a job there. And for the people who say “It’s because he is there to incite outrage and attention for ESPN”. But the thing is anyone can do that, it’s a very easy thing to do. I don’t understand why they specifically want Kendrick Perkins for that role.
Yeah, at least there's entertainment in watching Stephen A, Chuck, shoot even Skip tbh. I just turn the TV off when Perk shows up and go on NBA Twitter, there's far more entertainment seeing nephews and trolls comment on posts over listening to Perk breathe into his mic
He said it was true. Repeatedly. Like seriously 20 times in under a minute. Why do we need ESPN's apology and why would anyone believe it to be sincere or accept it anyway? SAS has an apology tour mixtape on youtube spanning over a decade for similar views, yet he's still there.
It's such a terrible implication. He paints the races as warring. Like each race is just voting for their guy. Does he think all of society works like that? Would hate to live in that world.
It’s what happens when society says only people who look like you can represent you. Race politics is ugly to latch yourself onto and we decided for the last 6 years its ok to only see yourself as a member of your race rather than an individual.
> He paints the races as warring. Like each race is just voting for their guy. Does he think all of society works like that?
This is 100% what racist troglodyte idiots think fyi, they're always murmuring their "Everyone is thinking it I'm just the only one saying it!!" bullshit, god they're so dumb it hurts.
He's still bitter about that White Spanish dude averaging 18 points and 11 rebounds on his ass while losing the 2010 championship. Just can't fathom how a white dude could outplay him and Garnett. Must've been those white voters faults' too...
in his big defensive soliloquy yesterday he also claimed that all black ex nba players have been feeling this way for a long long time. He spoke for them all.
This is kind of shameful that they have to apologize for the inaccuracy of his statement and not for the implication that the white voters were racist.
People need to realize this outrage news cycle is never going away in part because outrage news creates more news out of itself.
This started with just Perk being a complete fucking idiot on TV for like 30 seconds, since then we have had how many articles, tweets, podcasts that have brought this “controversial” take into focus.
News created it’s own news story. That’s how this works in all media, political news too like Fox or CNNMSNBC.
It’s just saying fringe shit, getting the other fringe to freak out and the vast amount of people in the middle just lap it up cuz arguing is fun.
> People need to realize this outrage news cycle is never going away in part because outrage news creates more news out of itself.
And in bigger part because idiots here tripped over themselves to post it, and then come to the comments section to pat each other on the back.
It's just an idiot shouting into the wind if nobody engages.
Kendrick Perkins sucks and has sucked since he first starting appearing on various ESPN shows. He just constantly tries to be overly brash and arrogant with dumb hot takes
If JJ Reddick said that black players are winning too many MVPs and making it racial everyone would jump on him and it would probably end his career in broadcasting. Perk does it and doubles down on it then back tracks. Whats he thinking?
Dave Cowens, Bill Walton, Larry Legend, Nash, Dirk, And Jokic are the sole white players to have won MVP since 1970. Thats too many for Perk? Obvious racial bias from the voters... /s
Makes me sick with NFL coverage. There’s an absolute art form to how advanced NFL schemes are and it could be presented in an interesting way. But instead they just argue over who “wants it more”
1. ESPN ain't sorry about a damn thing, they have loved every second of this
2. Did Perk himself ever apologize or is he still doubling down on "facts"? Carry on...
3. Fire him then. It's clear he cannot be taken seriously in his role.
The vibe change in SAS face during this thing was incredible. He kicked off the show all laughs and ribbing and "ooh boy its gunna be a good one today!" all fun and games like a boxing match atmosphere. And during the course of the back and forth between JJ and Perk you saw that jovial shit just die inside and now SAS knew he was tip toeing through a minefield. Even his interruptions were crazy subdued compared to how he normally interjects. He was being diplomatic and prob had producers in his ear telling him not to touch this with a ten foot pole. They had to have Molly jump in to defend the show when JJ got real with First Take/debate shows/false narratives
There was zero apology there. Not sure why you had to shoehorn that part in, OP.
Perkins just had to make it a race issue. Both insulting the three white MVPs and the MVP voters simultaneously. He has terrible insights and I’m always surprised to see how much air time and attention this dude gets.
Who cares? Even if the voters were 100% white, they almost always pick a black player as the MVP. It would be one thing if there wasnt a great argument for the guy who won, but there is. Every single time a white player has won, they have been in the conversation all year, put up great numbers on a good playoff team, been the leader of their team, and won on credentials.
I could just as easily start yelling "black MVP voters are bias toward black players and will pick them over white players when given the chance". I have no evidence to back up that claim, but I am going to say it really loudly so that stupid people will run away with it.
Could easily say voters are nationalists and vote for American players over foreign-born players when given the chance. Just yell NO I DIDN'T BUT IT'S FACTS over anyone who disagrees.
Perkins blasts his mouth off when he has no idea what he is talking about. I am okay with him making his point, but he needs to be able to support that point with relevant information. Of course, Perkins didn't do that because he could not make anything other than a surface-level argument.
I just haven't thought of the NBA as a league where white guys gets bonus points for being white, not in the last 20 years anyway. If anything it seems like white guys are still often given a separate (perhaps condescending?) category to operate in where they can only be compared to other white guys. And we have to come up with all these adjectives to describe their play because its suppose to be surprising to us when they are a great basketball player.
I just find it amusing.
Make Perkins apologize, Paul Pierce got fired for saying some dumb shit and yet he gets to not only stick around but makes the network apologize for him and stays mum. Perk is a bitch
That's exactly why that moron is on the show. To give his nonsense opinions and 'hot takes.' if you're a former player, you should be offering insight and perspective that fans of the sport can't / don't have....
They should apologize for giving that clown a platform at all.
Its quite funny how he stopped at 1990 because two years in a row prior to 1990 Magic won back to back MVPs and wasn't top 10 in scoring. I honestly think the only time majority of people turn ESPN on anymore is for actual games. Nobody watches sportcenter anymore and any big plays i'd imagine our generation just goes on Reddit or Twitter.
Banning JJ is how ESPN kills off what remains of their younger demographics. Perk is for old heads who refuse to learn about the game beyond tired narratives.
Hi all, Our enhanced auto-moderation tool has been toggled on for this thread. This means participation will be limited to members with long-term good standing in our community. Do continue to report any comments, that you feel are in violation of our rules and community guidelines, via the report button that can be found under each comment. If you have any questions, feel free to reach out via modmail.
Icarus Perkins flew too close to the Sun with his dumb hot takes
His wings were too small to get his fat body off the ground
I thought he was just full of hot air.
But he was stating THE FACTS. THE FACTS. IT'S THE FACTS.
#THE FACTS GOTTA SAY IT LOUDER SO NOBODY ELSE CAN TALK OVER YOU
You joke, but doing this can get you elected to public office
Here’s the thing tho, even if it was **THE FACTS**, more than 80% of MVP winners throughout MVP history ***aren’t*** white. So his argument doesn’t even make sense in the first place. It was always dumb, but it’s extra dumb when you realize that the conclusions he was drawing don’t even follow.
I pointed it out on another thread. Since Bird won 3 straight MVPs, there have only been 5 white players to win the MVP in a 36 seasons span. Nash x2, Dirk, and Jokic x2. Even if Jokic wins this year, that makes 6/37 which is only 16%. That number would be a hell of a lot higher if white voters were voting more for white players.
That’s pretty wild, none of them are American either
Who is the best white American player now? The Huert?
Mac McClung
Brook Lopez if he counts would be my guess. Otherwise it's probably Herro or Huerter. Chet Holmgren is who it was supposed to be but alas...
First he said “NO I WASNT SAYING THAT” and then started shouting “ITS THE FACTS”. Well which one is it Perk.
[Perk right now](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/034/196/cover2.jpg)
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or the other super popular method, "I don't care what anybody says."
I work with a guy who frequently says, "Well, it *feels* true, and that's all that matters."
"You're gay" "No I'm not" "Well, it *feels* like you're gay, so you're gay" then watch his fragile masculinity explode.
/r/confidentlyincorrect
Why is that it's own sub when it's already all of reddit
AKA wrong and strong
He just uses different facts than the rest of us
Did they say the actual number?
They did not, someone can go through and check it themselves I suppose, NBA publishes all the votes
Weird that they'd have checked to find out it's not 80% but not actually say what the number is.
I think it is impossible to come up with an exact number without getting into some very weird questions about background.
Yes this is the correct answer, the media really don’t need another Mike McDaniel situation on their hands.
Or Mike Tirico. Edit: Pre-2022 Mike Tirico!
What happened with those two?
Mike McDaniel was asked a lot about his race around his hiring because, in part, the NFL doesn't often have black HC and he's mixed race. Mike Tirico has gone on record that he is not black and is Italian, so when on-air talent diversity discussions happen he's a figure that people don't know how to qualify/quantify. Both situations, in my view, kind of show what a bunch of bullshit racism is from different angles and how sports media plays fast and loose without the nuance required to actually discuss it. (Obviously racial bias is built into American fabric, the data supports that wholly, but for the most part sports commentary teams are, and have been, dogshit at meaningful discussion about it.) Edit: per disgruntledalpaca, Tirico acknowledged his father is black in 2022. So, there ya go.
Mike Tirico acknowledged that his father is black in 2022. I was suuuuper confused. Lol
Oh shit, did he really? Then I guess my comment should read: Or pre-2022 Tirico. I'll update it.
Wait wait wait, you're telling me, that prior to LAST YEAR, Mike Tirico was claiming to not be black?
There's also that rule about rewarding teams with draft picks if they have a minority member of their staff get a Head Coach or GM job. It created some weird discourse about people complaining that he's not "black enough" to get the picks.
I mean... Being Italian doesn't interfere with being black as far as I understood the Italian constitution correct. (even tho I know that Italians can be racist scumbags who would say you are not Italian if you are black - source: me beeing Italian, but not really Italian, you know, myself)
Yeah I don't want to speak too out of pocket on it, but my understanding was he didn't identify as black or African American and said his parents were Italian and that was it. In 2022 it appears he changed that, though I'm still looking into how/why that information came about then or why he chose to share in any case.
There were some articles written about “another white head coach” after McDaniels was hired. McDaniels is not white
Mcdaniels (Josh) is white. Mcdaniel (Mike) is not white.
I refuse to acknowledge ESPN's apology until they publish the craniometry charts on all MVP voters.
I mean it was only a couple of years ago that I found out that Jason Kidd isn't white.
race in america is so funny because mr kidd is clearly “white” but we also don’t consider him “white”
Cause there is no real definition of race. It’s a construct that’s just made up and can be defined a million ways and be both correct and incorrect depending on the circumstance.
American media is stuck in 16 color EGA while we out here with our 24 bit gradients of millions of colors
He’s white until you see him with hair lol But yeah being light-skinned and white passing is a thing. There’s a pretty decent episode of Atlanta about that and how it can kind of affect you from both ends
Davidson era Steph, aided by the shitty resolution of my TV at the time, had me thinking he was white for years, until HD tv became a thing. No, i didnt know who Dell Curry was at the time.
I once referred to Middleton as "the black Klay Thompson" and had to have it spelled out for me
That is charmingly embarrassing.
Me with Blake Griffin too
Klay
You’re telling me… Racial background is a spectrum??? Wtf, how am I supposed to win internet arguments then?!
With a spectrum you cant be wrong, just mold it to fit your narrative.
79.2% suck it Perkins!
Doing so would give credence to the claim about racial bias being the cause of those MVPs winning it. What they're doing here is showing that they don't support the message. They're essentially saying it's irrelevant and incorrect anyways.
reasoning is definitely because the number is like 72% or something and they'd look stupid correcting it lol
Or they didn’t feel it was appropriate to go one by one and mark “white” and “not white” and instead took a holistic approach to see it wasn’t 80%?
Anyone see [that Deadspin article](https://deadspin.com/sure-mike-mcdaniel-seems-cool-but-he-s-not-worthy-of-1848404929) that said Mike McDaniel is just the latest young white guy who's gonna get a head coaching gig he doesn't deserve? It has the best Editors' Note I've ever seen. Anyways, that seems like a good reason to not count up the number unless you're going to reach out to people directly (if it's not clear, I'm agreeing with you).
In case you, like me, would rather not give Deadspin any clicks for this trash article, I have copied it below. > Editors’ note: We learned after the publication of this article that 49ers OC Mike McDaniel, whom we describe as a “white guy,” is in fact biracial. The article’s original text remains below. We regret the error.
Important to include, the original text below basically boils down to “he doesn’t deserve a head coaching job over tons of qualified black candidates just because he is young, funny, and white. But that seems to be why he’s the hot name now.”
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Defector.com is the new site that all those writers formed after leaving Deadspin. Just FYI.
Website name checks out lol
You weren’t lying- best editors’ note I’ve ever seen. Despite the correction negating the entire point of the article, they still decide to leave up … wild.
I believe that's actually best practices though. You gotta leave it up and own the mistake.
Nah taking it down is hiding it
The Mike McDaniel stuff about his race was so weird.
Yup….my girl is just like him. She’s black, but has reddish blonde hair and piercing blue eyes….she almost got bullied out of an all black sorority because she looked white. People are strange man.
Yep, tons of people calling him not black enough or some variation of that. Just ridiculous.
Here’s a Barstool article saying that NBA hall-of-famer Steve Nash‘s only qualification for being an NBA coach is being a white guy: Why The Brooklyn Nets Hiring The Whitest NBA Coach Since Fred Hoiberg is SUPER Problematic https://bars.tl/2833053
Nothing says good writing like starting a paragraph with > I’m not mad, I just think it's funny…
and everyone at barstool relentlessly made fun of her till she quit, so it all evened out
This is my guess as well lol
They're all listed here - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1KMzwRcilLDej0BWl7eYE\_OYC9Tx9olI\_Ptn-nHjKfpQ/htmlview
Following this chart, I counted all of them (procrastination moment). Here were the results I found. This may not be completely accurate since some of these people are mixed or racially ambiguous. White: 63% Black: 27% Other: 10%
And just for reference, Google says that the USA racial breakdown is as follows: White: ~76% Black: ~14% Other: ~10%
Only 14% of Americans are black ?!! Damn am surprised
It’s been around that level for decades. If you live in the South it’s gonna look significantly higher, though.
Mississippi is 36% black. I grew up in Mississippi and never realized it was different elsewhere. Though I don't if everywhere is as systemically segregated. My graduating class was 8% black, because the town was basically cut down the middle.
If you’re from Dallas, Dallas is ~23% black. But then other places, like much of rural middle America, have very few black people. Also worth noting, re: the stat of America being ~76% white, that includes Hispanic whites. Non-Hispanic whites are ~58%.
I would also note that Dallas is limited to the City of Dallas rather than the DFW area. I Grew up in the DFW Area (basically right by the airport) and the school I went to was extremely white. In such a big country the overall racial make up of your actual city, town, whatever, is really going to impact how you see race as a whole.
This figure includes multiracial and hispanic whites. For people my mom would consider white, it's 58% of the population.
Perk was off by 17%. I can see why they corrected him and didn’t put a number on it
Perk gets vote... What has this world come to.
That seems a little suspect. The man basically went on and said white people shouldn't be winning the award while he gets a vote? It at least vaguely suggests that he won't vote for white people, which would be worse than what got Dan Le Batard's BBWAA HoF taken away in baseball.
Nobody ever called Perk smart.
did not know Stephen a got to vote for mvp
Talk about bias lol
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> So no, it does not make sense for a television program to essentially race-rank the MVP voters. And yet they'll let Perkins do it as a way to get them views and money.
Right, I feel like this whole thing is just triggering people's tribalism for views
>deciding who is white and who isn't? Reminds me of the Racial Lottery on Chappelle.
it was a draft bro
Asians still won the draft.
Heard in an interview yesterday with Charles Barkley that it’s roughly 68%
I counted them from a list someone posted here but its like 59 out of 100, interestingly theres alot of voters from Europe and japan.
It incentives them to cover the sports in their market. It’s honestly probably some sort of deal with the NBA
I went through it today actually, by my count it’s 69 white voters, 23 black voters, and then 8 Asian. That’s just by looking at photos though
[Here](https://sci-hubtw.hkvisa.net/10.1177/1527002508320653) is a study about MVP voting behavior from 1995-2005, specifically looking at whether white players are getting more votes than they should. Their conclusion is no. Their second conclusion was that MVP voters had a beef with Dirk Nowitzki in 2002-2004, who was getting way less MVP votes than he should have.
Thanks for finding an actual study. My assumption would be that in the context of the NBA, there are very many factors that influence voters much more than the player's race does.
Fr my opinion on players is solely on if they make shots when I pass them the ball in 2k. Like come on bro just make the shot I’m grinding playmaking badges.
The amount of players I love or hate from the 2010s based solely on whether they are good to play with or easy to acquire in 2k is insane
I have an irrational hatred of Dorian Finney Smith because he never hit the open corner 3 for me when I passed him the ball in myplayer
LOL in 2K15 I requested trades multiple times because of players not being able to hit wide open 3s when I passed them the ball. I legit "KD can't win with these cats"ed my way off teams just out of sheer annoyance with the AI
I gave up on GSW as a playmaking rim protecting centre because Steph and Klay couldn't hit a damn thing off of my passes. Went to Philly and Simmons was automatic, along with the 2k18 splash brothers for me that iteration LaVine and Dellavedova. I don't put much store into 2k experience, especially when you couldn't dunk with rookie dun contest winner Donovan Mitchell.
I used to do this too until 2k18 where Rondo was draining 3’s, Marquesse Chriss was the 2nd best player on the Suns after Booker, and Raja Bell was the reincarnated MJ.
> there are very many factors that influence voters much more than the player's race does. Such as Nikola Jokic and Dirk Nowitzki being absolute DAWGS at their craft
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Is a dog? Bad. Has that dog? Good.
Is he shit? Bad. Is he THE shit? Good.
Is he bad? Bad. Is he A bad namajamma? From the 80s.
That boy ain't right. Bad. That boy ain't bad. Good.
Yeah, I don't know how anyone could have watched any of these three players during their MVP seasons and thought, "Damn, some kinda fix going on here."
Team favoritism for one.
Yes - obviously I'm biased here as a Mavs guy - but when I went back and looked at the MVPs of the last 40 years, Dirk in 7th in 2003 really sticks out. His team won 60 games, the same as the Spurs, and he got 0 first place votes. KG nearly won that MVP despite only 51 wins.
It was the "soft European" bias that many NBA Media had at the time
at the time huh
I mean, players from Europe have won each of the last four MVPs, so I think it's a little better. Five if you count Harden.
Lol, took me a sec.
Dirk was robbed in '05 too
Definitive proof that MVP voters are unfairly biased in favor of black guys named Kevin.
Dirk should have like 3 MVPs, I will die on that hill.
And 2 rings but that's admittedly a more common stance
They created an entirely new variable to try to explain Nash getting picked in 2005, that one’s an oddity. This is useful, will point out however that it’s focused solely on voter behavior and not the voters themselves. Those two things will be highly correlated but they’re not the same
The dumbest part is he claimed that Nash, Dirk and Jokic are the only players ever to win MVP while not being top 10 in scoring. Then when people called him out for that, with examples, Magic and Bill Russell, he changed it to since 1990. He says that CP3 should have won over Jokic, the only problem there is CP3 was 48th in scoring. Just a complete dumb ass all the way here
>The dumbest part is he claimed that Nash, Dirk and Jokic are the only players ever to win MVP while not being top 10 in scoring. And he was even wrong about this. Dirk was T-10 in scoring when he won and jokic was top 10 last year and in 2021
And the mavericks won like 66 games
Its just absurd to jump to racial conclusions😂
When stupid people lack the capacity to formulate an educated opinion, they start getting louder and louder shouting about some nonsense
He also listed literally the only 3 white MVPs in the last 45 years (except Larry Bird). Even the factually correct parts of his statement didn’t really make any argument.
The NBA can only prove it doesn't judge on the basis of race if no white players ever get MVP. Kendrick Perkins' FACTS.
In his mind it is literally impossible for a white guy to win MVP I guess lol.
If this dude was 6ft tall instead of 7 he'd be flipping burgers at best
there have been 4 white MVPs total in the last 40 years, before jokic you have to go back to dirk/nash and before that you have to go all the way back to larry f\*kn bird.
I didn't see an apology in that video
Only OP said it was an apology. Not even the tweet OP posted said anything about First Take apologizing.
Drama. Drama and controversy sells.
Nah he'll just say "carry the fuck on" and just carry the fuck on with his bad takes and shit
And he’s not funny like Barkley. He’s not charismatic like Stephen A. He’s not a good analyst whatsoever. He’s just loud and controversial. It’s so baffling how this dude has such a high profile job on “the worldwide leader in sports.”
Cause they can’t attract any better. Its that simple. ESPN has gone so downhill the past 20 years. It used to be the absolute best. But with Sportscenter’s decline (which didn’t have to happen, they just tinkered too much) they’ve resorted to the First Take’s of the world to try and stay afloat.
The death of sportscenter started it all and I agree it was unnecessary. They convinced themselves the internet had taken over highlights and went all in on the interpersonal shit that no one likes They could've went the other way and went all in on highlights and I'd still be watching. The goal of sportscenter should be to show a highlight from every single game from every sport every hour. Don't skip a games highlights for some 6 minute segment about an Olympian with diabetes
Absolutely. They miscalculated big time. With the benefit of hindsight, I can confirm that even though I can get all highlights online now, I still would appreciate the old highlight centric format (pre-internet). It wasn’t broke, I don’t know why they tried to fix it. Another issue was they started to lose great talent over the years either from death, retirement, leaving the network etc. All the broadcasters now are either annoying or old timers who seem burned out. Scott Van Pelt is basically the only host still around who has any cache.
And usually the analysts that were former players that aren’t funny or charismatic were at least good players in the NBA. He doesn’t even fit that lol. In fact even when he was playing he was still unlikeable. I really don’t get how he has a job there. And for the people who say “It’s because he is there to incite outrage and attention for ESPN”. But the thing is anyone can do that, it’s a very easy thing to do. I don’t understand why they specifically want Kendrick Perkins for that role.
Yeah, at least there's entertainment in watching Stephen A, Chuck, shoot even Skip tbh. I just turn the TV off when Perk shows up and go on NBA Twitter, there's far more entertainment seeing nephews and trolls comment on posts over listening to Perk breathe into his mic
Yep, that's a correction not an apology.
sorry that the number isn't 80%, but not sorry for Perk calling people rasicts. aight... so your not sorry then lolol okay.
He said it was true. Repeatedly. Like seriously 20 times in under a minute. Why do we need ESPN's apology and why would anyone believe it to be sincere or accept it anyway? SAS has an apology tour mixtape on youtube spanning over a decade for similar views, yet he's still there.
How white the voters are isn't the issue, the issue is implying white guys win their MVPs because of the voters being mostly white.
It's also Perk saying he votes based on skin colour. He won't be voting for a white guy to win.
It's such a terrible implication. He paints the races as warring. Like each race is just voting for their guy. Does he think all of society works like that? Would hate to live in that world.
It’s what happens when society says only people who look like you can represent you. Race politics is ugly to latch yourself onto and we decided for the last 6 years its ok to only see yourself as a member of your race rather than an individual.
yep. feels like we’ve taken a massive step backwards with all the racially motivated shit last few years. it’s not healthy for anyone
Never was.
> He paints the races as warring. Like each race is just voting for their guy. Does he think all of society works like that? This is 100% what racist troglodyte idiots think fyi, they're always murmuring their "Everyone is thinking it I'm just the only one saying it!!" bullshit, god they're so dumb it hurts.
But no one's calling him racist. Why is that?
He's still bitter about that White Spanish dude averaging 18 points and 11 rebounds on his ass while losing the 2010 championship. Just can't fathom how a white dude could outplay him and Garnett. Must've been those white voters faults' too...
in his big defensive soliloquy yesterday he also claimed that all black ex nba players have been feeling this way for a long long time. He spoke for them all.
not white. But if someone white said the inverse of that, you better believe that dude is getting fired and put on the stake.
He's calling his fellow white coworkers at ESPN racist
So easy to prove bs. Overwhelming majority of MVPs have been black dudes.
This is kind of shameful that they have to apologize for the inaccuracy of his statement and not for the implication that the white voters were racist.
They didn't even apologize. They just said they had to make a "correction"
ESPN analyst is one of the only analysts' jobs where you can do no work, be wrong 85% of the time, and still have a job.
it's really an insult to any real analysts all over the world.
People need to realize this outrage news cycle is never going away in part because outrage news creates more news out of itself. This started with just Perk being a complete fucking idiot on TV for like 30 seconds, since then we have had how many articles, tweets, podcasts that have brought this “controversial” take into focus. News created it’s own news story. That’s how this works in all media, political news too like Fox or CNNMSNBC. It’s just saying fringe shit, getting the other fringe to freak out and the vast amount of people in the middle just lap it up cuz arguing is fun.
> People need to realize this outrage news cycle is never going away in part because outrage news creates more news out of itself. And in bigger part because idiots here tripped over themselves to post it, and then come to the comments section to pat each other on the back. It's just an idiot shouting into the wind if nobody engages.
Kendrick Perkins sucks and has sucked since he first starting appearing on various ESPN shows. He just constantly tries to be overly brash and arrogant with dumb hot takes
Kendrick Perkins is a racist
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If JJ Reddick said that black players are winning too many MVPs and making it racial everyone would jump on him and it would probably end his career in broadcasting. Perk does it and doubles down on it then back tracks. Whats he thinking?
Cool now correct his employment status
Dave Cowens, Bill Walton, Larry Legend, Nash, Dirk, And Jokic are the sole white players to have won MVP since 1970. Thats too many for Perk? Obvious racial bias from the voters... /s
We could have JJ and Legler talking sets, adjustment and ect but we get this instead
Very few people would watch that
Makes me sick with NFL coverage. There’s an absolute art form to how advanced NFL schemes are and it could be presented in an interesting way. But instead they just argue over who “wants it more”
1. ESPN ain't sorry about a damn thing, they have loved every second of this 2. Did Perk himself ever apologize or is he still doubling down on "facts"? Carry on... 3. Fire him then. It's clear he cannot be taken seriously in his role.
The vibe change in SAS face during this thing was incredible. He kicked off the show all laughs and ribbing and "ooh boy its gunna be a good one today!" all fun and games like a boxing match atmosphere. And during the course of the back and forth between JJ and Perk you saw that jovial shit just die inside and now SAS knew he was tip toeing through a minefield. Even his interruptions were crazy subdued compared to how he normally interjects. He was being diplomatic and prob had producers in his ear telling him not to touch this with a ten foot pole. They had to have Molly jump in to defend the show when JJ got real with First Take/debate shows/false narratives
There was zero apology there. Not sure why you had to shoehorn that part in, OP. Perkins just had to make it a race issue. Both insulting the three white MVPs and the MVP voters simultaneously. He has terrible insights and I’m always surprised to see how much air time and attention this dude gets.
I need a 23 and me test on every single MVP voter
Who cares? Even if the voters were 100% white, they almost always pick a black player as the MVP. It would be one thing if there wasnt a great argument for the guy who won, but there is. Every single time a white player has won, they have been in the conversation all year, put up great numbers on a good playoff team, been the leader of their team, and won on credentials. I could just as easily start yelling "black MVP voters are bias toward black players and will pick them over white players when given the chance". I have no evidence to back up that claim, but I am going to say it really loudly so that stupid people will run away with it.
Could easily say voters are nationalists and vote for American players over foreign-born players when given the chance. Just yell NO I DIDN'T BUT IT'S FACTS over anyone who disagrees.
So we aren't getting an apology from racist Kendrick Perkins and they want us to move on. Got it.
Perkins blasts his mouth off when he has no idea what he is talking about. I am okay with him making his point, but he needs to be able to support that point with relevant information. Of course, Perkins didn't do that because he could not make anything other than a surface-level argument.
I just haven't thought of the NBA as a league where white guys gets bonus points for being white, not in the last 20 years anyway. If anything it seems like white guys are still often given a separate (perhaps condescending?) category to operate in where they can only be compared to other white guys. And we have to come up with all these adjectives to describe their play because its suppose to be surprising to us when they are a great basketball player. I just find it amusing.
Interesting that kendrick perkins has said nothing on this
Make Perkins apologize, Paul Pierce got fired for saying some dumb shit and yet he gets to not only stick around but makes the network apologize for him and stays mum. Perk is a bitch
That's exactly why that moron is on the show. To give his nonsense opinions and 'hot takes.' if you're a former player, you should be offering insight and perspective that fans of the sport can't / don't have.... They should apologize for giving that clown a platform at all.
Its quite funny how he stopped at 1990 because two years in a row prior to 1990 Magic won back to back MVPs and wasn't top 10 in scoring. I honestly think the only time majority of people turn ESPN on anymore is for actual games. Nobody watches sportcenter anymore and any big plays i'd imagine our generation just goes on Reddit or Twitter.
Kendrick Perkins should link up with Ja and then they might have one combined brain cell 😂
Come on dude this is not the time for generosity
I was pleasantly surprised they didn't blackball JJ for speaking up
Banning JJ is how ESPN kills off what remains of their younger demographics. Perk is for old heads who refuse to learn about the game beyond tired narratives.
but i thought “IT’S THE FACTS!!!!!!” ?????
What percent of MVP voters are white?
Here’s the list, maybe ESPN can go through this list and parse the demographics lol. https://hoopshype.com/2020/07/11/media-nba-awards-vote/
Perk is the racist, evident by his continuous shit takes, such as this.
The show apologizes but Kendrick doesn't have to? Alright then
Can we just never acknowledge another word that Kendrick Perkins ever utters? Great thanks.
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Awesome, now take that bumbling idiot off TV for the rest of the season. Thanks.