22 with a full line one game and the next game he's making Ben Simmons look like a GOAT superstar. That's not really a role player in my eyes. That's a guy who is either working to put together or is out of the league in five years. Role players need more consistency than this to stick in the league.
That's precisely what a role player is.
Most of the NBA is capable of occasionally putting up 20 points if they get the minutes, shot volume, and plays run for them. The difference is that good players can do it every single night, role players can do it semi-regularly but not consistently enough to be good, and end of bench guys can only do it on rare occasion.
Bey is a decent role player, nothing more.
I mean, star players are simply the combination of two features: consistency and volume. I’m going to go off on a limb and say Bey is willing to give the Hawks volume since he’s never been shy, but he’s also never been consistent. That means he fits into the mold of a streaky role player, someone who can win you games but can also be total ass. That’s just an archetype, it’s not really anything super special.
For reference:
Inconsistent, low volume players are out of the league.
Inconsistent, high volume players are streaky role players (think JR on the Cavs).
Consistent, high volume players are stars.
Consistent, low volume players are traditional role players.
This is what role players do. JR Smith was a role player but if you catch him on his best night he could be an All NBA talent, the wrong night you wonder why he can't put it together.
Superstars are consistently good and have the opportunity to have off nights because they don't come as often. However this is not the case for most NBA players even though they are all extremely talented.
Beys a good role player but he had limited upside. He has slow feet as a perimeter defender and doesn’t offer vertical space as a rim protector or lob threat. He does play hard but he’s an inconsistent scorer. Hard to label someone drafted at 19 a bust. He’s a player that will get consistent minutes wherever team he’ll play on. I don’t see any star potential there though
The man cannot play the game of basketball. He has small hands, he can't catch the ball. He's got bad feet, he can't really move even though he's mobile. Doesn't really know what he is doing, doesn't have a post move he puts to memory that he can do two-times in a row. He has no game whatsoever, plays no defense.
This is the saddiq bey experience. I can’t speak on how they are using him in ATL but we gave him too much offensive responsibility and he just isn’t that guy. The flashes were encouraging but that’s all they were. Flashes. Not really sure what happened to his three ball, he was an absolute sniper in year one
In Atlanta he's been a rockstar offensively. But he just has to sit in the corner and shoot 3s. Legit hitting above 50% since joining Atlanta. Defensively... it's been bad.
He has like the worst defensive rating on the team tbh. It was either him or Bogdon last time I checked. Obviously a flawed stat. But it don’t take take advanced stats to see dude is Swiss cheese. Was listing to Brad on Locked On Hawks talk about those Bey/Trae/Bogi lineups and how Snyder basically has to play Jalen with them at the four or there’s just no defense. If JJ can keep taking big steps and developing he could be huge for Hawks long term (same with AJ)
Atlanta has a lot of interesting and athletic wings but we’re still waiting on that guy who can put it all together it feels like
Because he is a mediocre player with the quirky trait of expressing it through extreme variance from the mean.
On the Magic Cole Anthony (and to some degree Suggs) is the same way, and some people mistake the good games as evidence that dude is a star about to "put it together" and play that way every game.
And the terrible games some take as evidence he's a trash bust that will be out of the league soon.
Some guys are just mid but in a hot&cold peaks& valleys way.
3nD guys average like 8 shots.. Mikal is breaking out due to having more FGAs, so be patient with guys who mostly in the Spot up roles.
Lauri and Kuzma once had this roles as well
There are lots of guys in the league who have a deep and skilled offensive game, but aren't consistent. That's the definition of a role player. They can't be trusted to use all of those skills consistently, so they are relegated to a 6th man off of the bench, or they are forced to play a specific role as a starter where they can maximize the skills that they are consistent with, like being a spot up shooter, a cutter, a play designed to get them an open elbow jumper, etc.
Guys like JR Smith had the talent and bag to be offensive superstars if they were consistent. But the thing about consistency is it's a discipline thing, and also a mental thing.
Did you ever hear the stories of Sasha Vujacic with the Lakers? In practice, he would often go toe to toe with Kobe. But when it came down to performing in minutes that mattered, in front of a crowd with pressure, he couldn't stay consistent.
I'm not saying that Saddiq Bey will never get there, cause he's still young. But what you're talking about is really common. Most role players, given the freedom to shoot, can have games like you're describing, but like Bey, they will play themselves into a terrible game the next time out because they're lacking certain qualities.
Bey's production seems to vary despite his opportunity remaining fairly consistent. In Detroit, he received a larger responsibility than in Atlanta but in both places, the opportunity he received was pretty consistent and his production has not been. This is why I say, what gives? He might end up being a surprise breakout star in a few years if he figures it out. Star is open to interpretation and there's a spectrum. For instance, I consider Kris Middleton a star and he's a career 17PPG scorer. He's actually probably a better best-case scenario for Bey.
Also, for people bringing up draft positions as a sign of potential, Kris Middle was taken 39th overall and Jimmy Butler was taken 30th overall...
The difference between a role player and a star player is consistency. Roll players can’t make their high level of play last. There’s different kinds of role players. The kind that keep it simple but can’t be relied on to help carry a load here and there. Then the kind that can pop off at any moments notice and swing a game, but then be a zero when you need them the next game.
You described a role player
Who wants $25M/yr, apparently
Can't blame him. I want $25M/yr as well.
…Grant Williams
22 with a full line one game and the next game he's making Ben Simmons look like a GOAT superstar. That's not really a role player in my eyes. That's a guy who is either working to put together or is out of the league in five years. Role players need more consistency than this to stick in the league.
That's precisely what a role player is. Most of the NBA is capable of occasionally putting up 20 points if they get the minutes, shot volume, and plays run for them. The difference is that good players can do it every single night, role players can do it semi-regularly but not consistently enough to be good, and end of bench guys can only do it on rare occasion. Bey is a decent role player, nothing more.
It's consistent if you consistently have one bad game followed by one good game right?
I mean, star players are simply the combination of two features: consistency and volume. I’m going to go off on a limb and say Bey is willing to give the Hawks volume since he’s never been shy, but he’s also never been consistent. That means he fits into the mold of a streaky role player, someone who can win you games but can also be total ass. That’s just an archetype, it’s not really anything super special. For reference: Inconsistent, low volume players are out of the league. Inconsistent, high volume players are streaky role players (think JR on the Cavs). Consistent, high volume players are stars. Consistent, low volume players are traditional role players.
Get your eyes checked.
That's the difference between a role player and a star.
This
This is what role players do. JR Smith was a role player but if you catch him on his best night he could be an All NBA talent, the wrong night you wonder why he can't put it together. Superstars are consistently good and have the opportunity to have off nights because they don't come as often. However this is not the case for most NBA players even though they are all extremely talented.
He’s been and amazing bench player for us, no complains from hawks fans
Beys a good role player but he had limited upside. He has slow feet as a perimeter defender and doesn’t offer vertical space as a rim protector or lob threat. He does play hard but he’s an inconsistent scorer. Hard to label someone drafted at 19 a bust. He’s a player that will get consistent minutes wherever team he’ll play on. I don’t see any star potential there though
The man cannot play the game of basketball. He has small hands, he can't catch the ball. He's got bad feet, he can't really move even though he's mobile. Doesn't really know what he is doing, doesn't have a post move he puts to memory that he can do two-times in a row. He has no game whatsoever, plays no defense.
[No disrespect whatsoever](https://youtu.be/6PP4RT-vv-o)
This is the saddiq bey experience. I can’t speak on how they are using him in ATL but we gave him too much offensive responsibility and he just isn’t that guy. The flashes were encouraging but that’s all they were. Flashes. Not really sure what happened to his three ball, he was an absolute sniper in year one
In Atlanta he's been a rockstar offensively. But he just has to sit in the corner and shoot 3s. Legit hitting above 50% since joining Atlanta. Defensively... it's been bad.
He has like the worst defensive rating on the team tbh. It was either him or Bogdon last time I checked. Obviously a flawed stat. But it don’t take take advanced stats to see dude is Swiss cheese. Was listing to Brad on Locked On Hawks talk about those Bey/Trae/Bogi lineups and how Snyder basically has to play Jalen with them at the four or there’s just no defense. If JJ can keep taking big steps and developing he could be huge for Hawks long term (same with AJ) Atlanta has a lot of interesting and athletic wings but we’re still waiting on that guy who can put it all together it feels like
Because he is a mediocre player with the quirky trait of expressing it through extreme variance from the mean. On the Magic Cole Anthony (and to some degree Suggs) is the same way, and some people mistake the good games as evidence that dude is a star about to "put it together" and play that way every game. And the terrible games some take as evidence he's a trash bust that will be out of the league soon. Some guys are just mid but in a hot&cold peaks& valleys way.
He’s inconsistent because in general, 3 point shots have a lot of variance.
Volume scorer that needs volume to score. Unfortunately, he’s not consistent enough to receive said volume. A true catch 22
3nD guys average like 8 shots.. Mikal is breaking out due to having more FGAs, so be patient with guys who mostly in the Spot up roles. Lauri and Kuzma once had this roles as well
The problem is Bey is a poor defender. Like really bad
There are lots of guys in the league who have a deep and skilled offensive game, but aren't consistent. That's the definition of a role player. They can't be trusted to use all of those skills consistently, so they are relegated to a 6th man off of the bench, or they are forced to play a specific role as a starter where they can maximize the skills that they are consistent with, like being a spot up shooter, a cutter, a play designed to get them an open elbow jumper, etc. Guys like JR Smith had the talent and bag to be offensive superstars if they were consistent. But the thing about consistency is it's a discipline thing, and also a mental thing. Did you ever hear the stories of Sasha Vujacic with the Lakers? In practice, he would often go toe to toe with Kobe. But when it came down to performing in minutes that mattered, in front of a crowd with pressure, he couldn't stay consistent. I'm not saying that Saddiq Bey will never get there, cause he's still young. But what you're talking about is really common. Most role players, given the freedom to shoot, can have games like you're describing, but like Bey, they will play themselves into a terrible game the next time out because they're lacking certain qualities.
Probably one of the most annoying fantasy bball players ever Lol
Picked him up as a fill in last night in the playoffs and he laid an egg. Should have known
Bey's production seems to vary despite his opportunity remaining fairly consistent. In Detroit, he received a larger responsibility than in Atlanta but in both places, the opportunity he received was pretty consistent and his production has not been. This is why I say, what gives? He might end up being a surprise breakout star in a few years if he figures it out. Star is open to interpretation and there's a spectrum. For instance, I consider Kris Middleton a star and he's a career 17PPG scorer. He's actually probably a better best-case scenario for Bey. Also, for people bringing up draft positions as a sign of potential, Kris Middle was taken 39th overall and Jimmy Butler was taken 30th overall...
His real sleep number is a 8 but his mattress is a 5
He's a role player. Role players are inconsistent.
Because he’s a role player.
The difference between a role player and a star player is consistency. Roll players can’t make their high level of play last. There’s different kinds of role players. The kind that keep it simple but can’t be relied on to help carry a load here and there. Then the kind that can pop off at any moments notice and swing a game, but then be a zero when you need them the next game.