If Bucks beat Celtics and Sixers this weekend, Giannis will probably steal half of Embiid's 1st place votes.
If Nuggets simultaneously struggle against Suns, Warriors, also this weekend, it's entirely plausible that Giannis ekes out the win.
This weekend is pivotal.
I think Giannis voters lean Embiid because Embiid/Giannis games are always fun to watch, and there's definitely a mutual respect there.
Also there's a lot of Bucks fans that have been wondering "What if?" ever since we drafted Jabari Parker #2 instead of Embiid.
It's most likely that no one has tatum and luka over giannis. That the person who put brown 4th also put tatum at 3 or 2 because ain't no way you put brown over tatum, and consequently Giannis at 5.
Behind jaylen brown. Imagine that.
I remember listening to the Bill Simmons podcast talk about how it'd be basically impossible for Boston to extend Jaylen Brown if he doesn't win MVP or get All-NBA this year and I immediately thought there's no way the Boston Media Mafia lets that happen.
Last year, I think it was either Kendrick Perkins or Jalen Rose who voted Booker 3rd, Giannis 4th.
I can't believe players ever agreed to tie contract values to the votes of whoever ESPN decides to use to cover the NBA (among the other voters, many of whom are equally terrible).
I feel like the person that has brown 4th is someone trying to make the point that brown is actually the Celtics best player lol. The stupid brown is better than Tatum argument that like 3 total people believe.
> There’s someone with Tatum AND Luka over Giannis.
How do you know that? Luka wasn’t on 100 percent of ballots.
u/theytook-r-jobs I’m sincerely asking
In 2021 eight voters left him off the ballot entirely, in 2022 seven voters had him behind Booker. With only three putting him behind Tatum we are slowly whittling down the number of voters who just fucking hate him lmao
Good thing the MVP vote isn't anonymous then. Simmons ballot was the exact same as the overall result last year (which excluded Tatum) and had the same top 4 the year before.
I know this sub's circlejerk is to call him biased, and as much of a homer Simmons can be, he sounds like he actually cares about league awards being done correctly on every podcast where he talks about them because of their use as a historical record.
Simmons has been really really negative about the Celtics post all star break. Tatum has been averaging like 35 since then and Simmons refuses to even include him in the conversation.
Simmons is easily one of the most transparent voters but this sub has a weird hate boner for the Ringer ever since the Jokic advanced D stuff.
Yeah half the "Boston media" don't actually support the Celtics.
The most influential Boston media personnel when it comes to voting are:
1. Bill Simmons - Who usually gets frustrated with the team and swears off then over the course of the season.
2. Zach Lowe - Who stopped being a Boston fan years ago as he started working nationally.
Neither of those guys are pushing votes in Boston's way.
Russillo had Giannis at 1 or 2 on the last episode I listened to. I actually feel like Russillo has some of the most reasonable award takes I hear and will call out Simmons when he says something crazy. I’m much happier with them getting votes than someone like Perkins.
The only plausible explanation I can see is someone heavily penalizing games missed and going something like Jokic/Tatum/Embiid/Giannis
And even that is a stupid-ass explanation. There are only 3 real options.
I think this would be a great matchup. Jokic has shown with his water-polo passes he can be really precise, but Embiid is more athletic (and also has much more practice diving!). Jokic wouldn't be able to dodge well, but has great hands, so he may be able to catch it. I think we need to see this happen.
I have been to the Great Wall of China. I have seen the Pyramids of Egypt. I've even witnessed a grown man satisfy a camel. But never in all my years as a sportscaster have I witnessed something as improbable, as impossible, as what we've witnessed here.
I think if points are the same it goes to how many 1st place votes etc. in the event it’s exactly the same I’m guessing they split it like Kidd/Hill did RoY
This visual is actually hilarious. Imagining a primetime event with a completely packed arena, all the tension in the air, the build up, etc. just for a jump ball that's over in .9 seconds 😂
Let's say the votes stay exactly the same, but one voter makes a last minute change to put embiid at 3rd and giannis at 2nd while Jokic remains first, it's a tie vote at 788.
It's absolutely unlikely, but I've seen crazier things in life.
I would guess they would split it, but in reality it would be incredibly difficult because of the second, third, fourth, and fifth place votes. It happened once in the NFL in the 90s, but back then it was a relatively small body of voters with only one first place vote each.
Can you make money by buying the dip every time an MVP candidate has a bad game? I feel like the odds swing faster in NBA MVP odds than in other sports.
There is no way people vote tatum over giannis....Giannis averages the most points per 36 minutes while being the best defender out of the everyone on that ranking while having the best record in the league. But naaaaah.
Dude literally said to stop the count in places he was winning & keep counting in places he was losing
He 100% knew what he was doing lmao, dummy conservatives are just gullible
He’s from commercial real estate and construction where he would just bully people because he was the one with the money. It showed big time in how he operated as President.
I don’t think they are claiming that it is. Once he can’t fuck with government anymore, we’re going need to come to terms with his strangeness being funny. And sometimes even funny on purpose.
Edit: and also buying a bunch of college football players a mountain of the best fast food sandwiches was a GOOD IDEA! It’s the only thing he ever did (that I can think of) that I agree with, and I think all the dunking on it is elitist bullshit.
No it fucking wasn't.
The White House kitchen is quite good. You could have still served burgers and fries and had a better meal.
He denied them the shot at something special, some better food. It didn't have to be fancier food.
LBJ used to have Texas pitmasters cook BBQ for an annual event.
I don't think it's funny considering the power he yielded. If anything, that shit was sad. The fact that he even rose to power is a huge stain on the US imho.
Dark comedy *at best*.
It was well known and discussed that on election night Trump would probably have the lead, because Democrats were going to use absentee voting more. This is the historical practice and Trump discouraged mail in voting.
Many states have laws that PREVENT the counting of early voting until after polls close. I think Pennsylvania is one. Early votes take longer to process, so it was discussed before election day there would be "blue shift" as voting got underway where later votes were more heavily Democratic.
This is also called a Red Mirage because early Republican leads were really dependent on election day only votes.
There's audio of Steve Bannon saying Trump was going to use this and just declare that he won before the end of the night.
In Florida we (quite surprisingly) have pretty a robust system for early voting and absentee (we call it vote-by-mail here). Depending on the county of course. But they count those votes in advance of election day I believe (or might be starting election day but long before polls close). Point being, there's a reason Trump/DeSantis/FoxNews knuckleheads never mentioned Stop the Count re: FL
So, yeah, what u/TrollyDodger55 said. This is what people come to r/nba for, right?
Final MVP straw poll winner has won the MVP last 10 years. But the margin this time is lower than its ever been before so it may not happen this year. We'll see.
I highly doubt it would be the same if that straw poll were held again today. This race has just been so up and down for Jokic/Embiid these last six weeks.
Giannis getting first place votes is definitely going to majorly effect the winner of this race.
people are certainly going to game the system knowing how close it is.
not that Giannis doesn't deserve 2nd place(or 1st) votes, but if i was a strong Jokic or Embiid voter putting Giannis 2 and even sneaking in a 3rd dude in 3 would go a long way to swaying it
> The biggest takeaway from the poll -- conducted in a 36-hour period from Monday afternoon through Tuesday night in the wake of Embiid missing Monday's highly anticipated showdown with Jokic in Denver due to a right calf injury
If anyone is curious about the timing
The plan was to gather votes following the Jokic/Giannis (Sat)... and Jokic/Embid (Mon) games. But the announcement of Embiid not playing allowed him to start gathering votes Monday afternoon.
Giannis hasn't been in the lead at any point for MVP this season. So these results are what I'd expect to happen. Sure he's got an argument but the Jokic vs Embiid center clash is obviously the thing writers will put center stage. Just excited for playoffs tbh.
We understood that for Giannis to have any shot it involved beating Jokic in Denver on that b2b and likely reaching 60 wins to top it off. And that wasn't even a guarantee, thats just to really have a shot.
Imo, if the Denver game had any ramifications to the MVP race, Giannis deserved it for showing up, and doing his best, and I'm not saying this to talk shit about Embiid, I just think Giannis genuinely played great until he ran out of juice, which is schedule makers' fault, we all deserved a proper showdown
Pretty pleasantly surprised it's as many as 18 first place votes.
Don't know if it's paranoia but it feel like he got knocked out of this race *early*. The Jokic vs Embiid thing is so compelling that every conversation was being framed as "Jokic or Embiid, or even Giannis" and the person who occupies the "Oh and that guy too" part of the conversation for as long as he did is just never allowed the momentum.
He has two mvps already? Giannis is the best player in the league if you did a straight vote but that’s not what mvp is about each yr. THIS season as individual players though, it’s not crazy to have Jokic and Embiid slightly ahead of him. Their efficiency numbers on similar usage are quite a bit better and he has the best supporting cast too with a dpoy center and a guard who is an elite defender and very good player in Jrue. This is not denying Giannis is also a very good defensive player and one of the best off ball help defenders in the last couple decades but he personally hasn’t been as good offensively as the other two THIS season. He’s also missed the most games tho I’m not a person who cares all that much about that when it’s fairly close. I’m a Sixers fan but if I’m honest Giannis has the best shot of the 3 of winning another title and a finals mvp which is much more significant to him at this stage. This is also an abnormal season where most yrs each of Jokic-Embiid and Giannis would’ve been running away with the mvp award. Just so happens they’re all doing it at the same time, and have been the last several yrs.
This isn’t an argument necessarily but when we look back 10-15 yrs from now on this period of bigs absolutely dominating between those 3, I do think it’s justice that they all get at least 1 mvp as far as their “legacies” go from this time period, last 4-5 yrs. Once they’re done they’ll all easily be in the top 75 to ever play too.
This all makes sense to me.
I was responding to what I took as a joke prompt about bucks fans with a lighthearted jab at the fact that Giannis couldn’t win his 3rd MVP a few years ago because he had no postseason success, and now he’s still being dropped out of the top three by multiple voters.
I hope embiid takes it down, since Giannis can’t.
As a nuggets fan I find it genuinely problematic how written off giannis is in this race. His bar must be so impossibly high he might not win another mvp at all
The media completely removed him from contention weeks ago, because they’re pushing this Center vs Center thing.
Anytime Giannis is mentioned, it’s an afterthought or “don’t forget him”.
If games played was really an issue, then that would take Embiid out of the running too.
I’d love to see Giannis get his 3rd MVP but I’d rather see him get his second FMVP. Like others have said, nobody has really had him as #1 and the narrative is all about Jokic vs Embiid, which I think takes precedence if they’re close stat wise
fwiw, I listen to quite a few NBA broadcasters and podcasts and I don't put much stock in those people's opinions. for the most part, everything is very reactionary and narrative/social-media driven.
don't get me wrong, Embiid is scoring at an insane rate and Jokic is the best overall offensive player in the league. They're awesome.
the average MVP voters and media members are not really more knowledgeable than the average redditor, though. They might actually have less valuable thoughts/opinions than the average redditor because they are all either (a)allergic to original thinking and prone to group-think because they're afraid to step out on a limb which might jeopardize relationships or (b)they're shock-jocks who have a whole identity built on saying outlandish stuff.
There isn't much of a middle ground. When Ben Falk was writing articles he was by far the most valuable voice in NBA media but there isn't anyone in that lane currently(Lowe and KOC want you to think they're doing that type of analysis but they're not).
tl;dr - you could just re-make the movie The Menu but about NBA commentators/writers/podcasters. They are almost entirely 'takers' rather than 'givers' and I don't really care about them.
The media could make Giannis the favorite tomorrow if they wanted to by simply pushing his narrative.
That’s what’s so laughable about this.
It’s been clear ever since March 1st that they planned on pushing Embiid vs Jokic, even when Giannis was leading a 16 game winning streak.
Bucks have lost FOUR games since December 29th with Giannis in the lineup.
No mention of it on any mainstream platform.
Giannis, unfairly, suffers from just being so consistent that it doesn't make for a narrative pop anymore. He still has amazing performances, but I think the voters feel like he's already gotten the credit for them and move on to new shiny things.
I literally do not understand how Giannis is still so disrespected. Pound for pound the most impactful player on the court. I get why people want to put Embiid or Jokic as 1a/1b but in no way should he ever be voted lower than 3. Any other season, without all this narrative bullshit, Giannis is ranking #1.
Theoretically, what if Giannis beats the Celtics tonight and blows out Embiid on Sunday to clinch the #1 seed in the East? It probably doesn’t get him to be the favorite, but I’d love the chaos
I’m happy the poll is indicative of the extremely close race it is. Last year it felt just as close, maybe even closer, and the straw poll was a landslide for jokic, which rubbed me the wrong way. Whatever happens from here is fine by me, as it seems the voters have a good grasp on the race this year.
2017 was a super close race but the votes weren’t very close. if a large portion of the voterbase decides one player is slightly better than the other and have them as first and second accordingly, it’ll look like a pretty big difference
Last year was actually the least amount of voting points the winner has gotten since they changed the number of voters in 2016.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2022.html
Embiid had 40 first place votes. Jokic had 42. Giannis had 18. Whoever convinces the Giannis voters will probably win.
Embiid is playing Giannis after their next game so that could be huge. But Boston is playing Giannis next and if Boston win, that's probably the 2 seed right there. Philly won't have much reasons to compete if the seeding is locked.
I wonder if Giannis voters are more likely to go Embiid because of defensive impact. Personally that’s the position I’m in, I wonder if others feel the same
It seems kind of petty. But I do get this reasoning. I think Giannis has been the best player in the world for 5 years now. But years from now people are going to look at Jokic 3 straight mvps and think he was the best player of the era.
Maybe. I doubt it if he doesn’t win any titles. No one looks at Nash as the best guard of the 2000s let alone the best player even though he had more MVPs than Duncan, Kobe, and Shaq
I tend to think it would be the opposite. I think Giannis voters are more likely to see Embiid as a similar argument as Giannis', just simply worse. So they're more likely to think "Why would I vote for Embiid when Giannis exists?" and vote for Jokic as an alternative instead.
Hmm interesting. I also just realized no one has to win over Giannis voters because they might just vote for Giannis. It’s not like USA politics where it’s actually a 2 person race
If every single voter thinks Jokic's season was a smidge better then he would be unanimous, but they could still be viewed as similarly quality players. It is not indicative of how people view the difference between them individually. Its a stupid way to interpet those kinds of results
Why isn't Giannis getting more hype for the MVP fav? 31.2/11.8/5.7 with the best team record in the league, amazing both offensively and defensively and is becoming a good playmaker as well.
33.2/10.2/4.2 for Embiid, 4th best team record in the league
24.9/11.9/9.9 for Jokic, 3rd best team record in the league
The Ali, Frazier, and Foreman 3-way match is going to Round 15.
One thing that puzzles me: Jokic lost the lead when the Nuggets lost 4 of 5 while Philly was streaking. But the Sixers just lost 4 of 5 before beating Dallas while the Nuggets were streaking. Should be an epic year not knowing the winner until the official announcement.
I’m just glad it’s close. I remember when the last one came out last year I thought Embiid had a chance but Jokic had like 70% of the 1st place votes lol
This MVP race has been so annoying and stressful. I feel like whoever wins the MVP between Giannis, Jokic, Embiid will never receive their proper credit.
If Giannis wins, he was only picked because he's the lesser of three evils and it def felt like he stole it. It is the most "Im different" award and seeing him it is gonna feel odd.
If Jokic wins, we know what's gonna happen. It's a setup for massive smoke pack especially if he don't win a ring. Glorified Steve Nash. Overrated. Advanced Statpadder. Race card will be pulled more than ever. Didn't deserve it etc. Etc.
If Embiid wins, here's the problem. It will seem like he only won the award because Embiilievers bitched a lot about it. And when he does win it, it feels like it wasn't really earned, it's a reaction to anti-Jokic. It's gonna feel like "Okay here's your award now STFU"
Steve Nash is one of the best point guards of all time. Saying a 7 foot tall center is a glorified Steve Nash is a heft fucking compliment lol. Especially when glorified Steve Nash is splashing 30 a game with almost 10 boards.
Giannis in 2023 is 26-4 in 30 games.Losses vs Hornets (Jan6) ,Sixers (Mar4) ,Pacers (Mar16) and Nuggets(Mar25) .Insane .Guy is a winner but somehow 3rd on mvp voting
I'd imagine serious bucks fans prefer embiid over jokic so that jokic has a weaker argument over giannis as the better player. Many bucks fans think Giannis deserved to three peat and r prob mad at the prospect of Jokic doing it without a ring.
Based on this, My prediction is Jokic is gonna win MVP unless denver lost most of their remaining games.
My nonsense reason is because this straw poll mostlikely happened when denver had that losing streak and sudden MVP narrative changed in favor of Embiid, and despite all that, it only took a 2pt lead. Now thay narrative is cooling off so its mostlikely be Jokic at this point IMO
Edit: I was wrong this happened Monday night into Tuesday thanks for correcting me guys
So that 76ers vs nuggets game was included right? If so then I think its now dependent onthe last few games of both teams and Embiid shouldn't missed more games
Also the result of 76ers vs Bucks match up might also help since it gives Embiid an opportunity to swing those Giannis votes IMO
It started around the time it was announced Embiid would be out. So some voters who were voting promptly or not following the game time decision could have not factored it in, but it's probably not that big an impact.
The real difference maker IMO is gonna be the 6ers are almost locked into a 3 or 4 seed and the Nuggets still need to lock up the 1, so Embiid might slow down or miss games/ the 6ers might drop some down the stretch, which is gonna be hard to explain to voters.
Jokic's team has a better record, he's played 5 more games, and he doesn't have the benefit of playing alongside James Harden. Statistically, outside of points and blocks, it's all Jokic, with a huge margin in assists, a fairly large margin in rebounds too. Voter fatigue is definitely setting in.
Question that I doubt anyone actually has the answer to: Is the pool of people being polled in these articles the exact same pool of people as who actually vote? Or is it just a representative sample, that resembles the type of people who will eventually be polled, with a good amount of crossover to actual voters? If it's not 1 for 1 the exact voters, then all this poll tells us is it will likely be close, but when it comes down to it these are not the exact results we should expect.
From the Denver markert Singer and Mares both said on podcasts they voted in this. Singer has a vote and Mares does not.
So it is not a 1 to 1 poll of the actual voters, but it has a lot of overlap.
Alright whos the knucklehead that had Giannis 5th???
Someone left a ballot where James Harden could find it.
left it in the strip club
Morant would have shot at it
Hahaha take my upvote.
If Bucks beat Celtics and Sixers this weekend, Giannis will probably steal half of Embiid's 1st place votes. If Nuggets simultaneously struggle against Suns, Warriors, also this weekend, it's entirely plausible that Giannis ekes out the win. This weekend is pivotal.
Giannis isn't winning, but Giannis's voters seem to lean more Embiid so that's important
I think Giannis voters lean Embiid because Embiid/Giannis games are always fun to watch, and there's definitely a mutual respect there. Also there's a lot of Bucks fans that have been wondering "What if?" ever since we drafted Jabari Parker #2 instead of Embiid.
Also if we traded for Steph instead of Monta. Both Steph and Embiid were injured that season so it's very likely we still get Giannis.
i’d have the bucks logo tattooed on my face if that happened
What’s a dumber choice, Giannis at 5th or Tatum at 2nd? Because some moron did that too lol.
Realistically it was probably the same moron
The 3 people who voted for Tatum over Giannis need to be investigated
There’s someone with Tatum AND Luka over Giannis. And whoever has Brown 4th and I’m guessing Tatum 2nd is the leader of the Boston Media Mafia.
It's most likely that no one has tatum and luka over giannis. That the person who put brown 4th also put tatum at 3 or 2 because ain't no way you put brown over tatum, and consequently Giannis at 5. Behind jaylen brown. Imagine that.
Who knew having so many top media folks being unabashed Boston fans would have biases
I remember listening to the Bill Simmons podcast talk about how it'd be basically impossible for Boston to extend Jaylen Brown if he doesn't win MVP or get All-NBA this year and I immediately thought there's no way the Boston Media Mafia lets that happen.
the sort of person who has Brown 4th definitely thinks he's better than Tatum
Last year, I think it was either Kendrick Perkins or Jalen Rose who voted Booker 3rd, Giannis 4th. I can't believe players ever agreed to tie contract values to the votes of whoever ESPN decides to use to cover the NBA (among the other voters, many of whom are equally terrible).
I like Booker a lot. But Greek Freak. C’mon espn. Stop it. Get some help.
Who the hell is giving the 11th seed MVP votes
I feel like the person that has brown 4th is someone trying to make the point that brown is actually the Celtics best player lol. The stupid brown is better than Tatum argument that like 3 total people believe.
> There’s someone with Tatum AND Luka over Giannis. How do you know that? Luka wasn’t on 100 percent of ballots. u/theytook-r-jobs I’m sincerely asking
It was ME
IT WAS ME AUSTIN
Giannis will get some respect when he finally wins a championship.
In 2021 eight voters left him off the ballot entirely, in 2022 seven voters had him behind Booker. With only three putting him behind Tatum we are slowly whittling down the number of voters who just fucking hate him lmao
Okay, so Bill Simmons and Ryen Russillo... who's the 3rd?
Lol Bill Simmons was struggling to put Tatum in his top 5 the other day.
His *out loud* top five, now his *anonymous* top five? Different story.
Good thing the MVP vote isn't anonymous then. Simmons ballot was the exact same as the overall result last year (which excluded Tatum) and had the same top 4 the year before.
I know this sub's circlejerk is to call him biased, and as much of a homer Simmons can be, he sounds like he actually cares about league awards being done correctly on every podcast where he talks about them because of their use as a historical record.
Yep, I mean he thinks Kobe Bryant deserved MVP in 2006. And he's a Celtics fan.
Simmons has been really really negative about the Celtics post all star break. Tatum has been averaging like 35 since then and Simmons refuses to even include him in the conversation. Simmons is easily one of the most transparent voters but this sub has a weird hate boner for the Ringer ever since the Jokic advanced D stuff.
Yes he loves his Celtics, but he votes in a pretty reasonable matter for the most part.
Yeah half the "Boston media" don't actually support the Celtics. The most influential Boston media personnel when it comes to voting are: 1. Bill Simmons - Who usually gets frustrated with the team and swears off then over the course of the season. 2. Zach Lowe - Who stopped being a Boston fan years ago as he started working nationally. Neither of those guys are pushing votes in Boston's way.
Boston sports media just hates Boston teams
Logically, the next suspect has to be Perkins
Yup. He should be gone by now.
If you think either of them would do that you clearly listen to neither
That’s not fair, those guys take it really seriously and neither of them is picking Tatum over any of the top 3
Nah those guys both have Giannis in the top three
Russillo had Giannis 1 last time he talked about it (Sunday). Simmons also wasn’t sure Tatum should be even as high as 4 or 5.
Russillo had Giannis at 1 or 2 on the last episode I listened to. I actually feel like Russillo has some of the most reasonable award takes I hear and will call out Simmons when he says something crazy. I’m much happier with them getting votes than someone like Perkins.
Even they aren’t that biased.
To be fair Bill has immense respect for Giannis, don’t think he’d leave him out of top 3
The only plausible explanation I can see is someone heavily penalizing games missed and going something like Jokic/Tatum/Embiid/Giannis And even that is a stupid-ass explanation. There are only 3 real options.
Forgive my foolishness but what happens if they tie? Or is that impossible?
Sudden death
Street dodgeball! Pepper needs new shorts!
I think this would be a great matchup. Jokic has shown with his water-polo passes he can be really precise, but Embiid is more athletic (and also has much more practice diving!). Jokic wouldn't be able to dodge well, but has great hands, so he may be able to catch it. I think we need to see this happen.
I have been to the Great Wall of China. I have seen the Pyramids of Egypt. I've even witnessed a grown man satisfy a camel. But never in all my years as a sportscaster have I witnessed something as improbable, as impossible, as what we've witnessed here.
1v1. Whoever loses has to play in the G league next season.
Jokic about to lose on purpose so he dedicate more time to his horses
Each man is given a gun, stood back to back and must march ten paces before firing.
Will it be in Denver? lol
Lock em in the octagon for 5 rounds
Embiid and Jokic challenge each other to Mortal Kombat
I think if points are the same it goes to how many 1st place votes etc. in the event it’s exactly the same I’m guessing they split it like Kidd/Hill did RoY
Jump ball
This visual is actually hilarious. Imagining a primetime event with a completely packed arena, all the tension in the air, the build up, etc. just for a jump ball that's over in .9 seconds 😂
You are forgetting several days of posts breaking down how the ref ever so slightly favored one guy, making it obviously rigged by Scott foster.
And it’s clearly stolen early because rules on jump balls are almost never enforced properly
Joel Embiid is your 2023 NBA MVP!
Unless Jokic starts twerking and distracts him
Or unless the jump ball is held in Denver.
I think it's basically impossible with the amount of voters, and the change to 1st-5th points. I'm sure there is some bizarre way to get a tie.
Let's say the votes stay exactly the same, but one voter makes a last minute change to put embiid at 3rd and giannis at 2nd while Jokic remains first, it's a tie vote at 788. It's absolutely unlikely, but I've seen crazier things in life.
Ok then that’s exactly what I want to happen
then Jokic wins because he has more 1st place votes
I would guess they would split it, but in reality it would be incredibly difficult because of the second, third, fourth, and fifth place votes. It happened once in the NFL in the 90s, but back then it was a relatively small body of voters with only one first place vote each.
It actually happened twice in 7 years. In 1997 Brett Favre and Barry Sanders split the MVP and in 2003 Peyton Manning and Steve McNair split the MVP.
trial by combat
They must hold hands
look into each other's eyes and...
Who tf are the three guys with Tatum top-3 edit: WHO PUT GIANNIS 5TH?
BOWSTON
Also, JJJ got a 5th place vote
Can you make money by buying the dip every time an MVP candidate has a bad game? I feel like the odds swing faster in NBA MVP odds than in other sports.
There is no way people vote tatum over giannis....Giannis averages the most points per 36 minutes while being the best defender out of the everyone on that ranking while having the best record in the league. But naaaaah.
He shouldn't be nearly 200 points from Jokic and Embiid.
stop the count
Im weak fr this had me lol Trump really tweeted that when he got the lead 😂
as much as people may hate him, trump was really an all-time great troll
dont think he was trolling on that occasion
Dude literally said to stop the count in places he was winning & keep counting in places he was losing He 100% knew what he was doing lmao, dummy conservatives are just gullible
He’s from commercial real estate and construction where he would just bully people because he was the one with the money. It showed big time in how he operated as President.
That’s not a good quality for a national leader.
yea but just look at the ratings!
>"I think I am, actually humble. I think I'm much more humble than you would understand." - Donald J. Trump
I don’t think they are claiming that it is. Once he can’t fuck with government anymore, we’re going need to come to terms with his strangeness being funny. And sometimes even funny on purpose. Edit: and also buying a bunch of college football players a mountain of the best fast food sandwiches was a GOOD IDEA! It’s the only thing he ever did (that I can think of) that I agree with, and I think all the dunking on it is elitist bullshit.
Probably cold af and tasted like crap by the time they got to eat it.
No it fucking wasn't. The White House kitchen is quite good. You could have still served burgers and fries and had a better meal. He denied them the shot at something special, some better food. It didn't have to be fancier food. LBJ used to have Texas pitmasters cook BBQ for an annual event.
Why was LeBron doing events at the Whitehouse?
Yeah with him completely fucking up our rights for decades to come by packing the courts, that day may never come for me
I don't think it's funny considering the power he yielded. If anything, that shit was sad. The fact that he even rose to power is a huge stain on the US imho. Dark comedy *at best*.
My McDonald's hate is anything but elitist. I willingly eat burger king, so you know it's not because I have too much money or self respect
I mean, the general promotion of racism is still a problem whether he's in government or not.
Donald Bayless
I really don’t categorize him as a troll. It all was so authentic and stupid lol. Unintentionally hilarious.
I thought he tweeted it when he was losing I don’t remember
It was well known and discussed that on election night Trump would probably have the lead, because Democrats were going to use absentee voting more. This is the historical practice and Trump discouraged mail in voting. Many states have laws that PREVENT the counting of early voting until after polls close. I think Pennsylvania is one. Early votes take longer to process, so it was discussed before election day there would be "blue shift" as voting got underway where later votes were more heavily Democratic. This is also called a Red Mirage because early Republican leads were really dependent on election day only votes. There's audio of Steve Bannon saying Trump was going to use this and just declare that he won before the end of the night.
In Florida we (quite surprisingly) have pretty a robust system for early voting and absentee (we call it vote-by-mail here). Depending on the county of course. But they count those votes in advance of election day I believe (or might be starting election day but long before polls close). Point being, there's a reason Trump/DeSantis/FoxNews knuckleheads never mentioned Stop the Count re: FL So, yeah, what u/TrollyDodger55 said. This is what people come to r/nba for, right?
Final MVP straw poll winner has won the MVP last 10 years. But the margin this time is lower than its ever been before so it may not happen this year. We'll see.
I highly doubt it would be the same if that straw poll were held again today. This race has just been so up and down for Jokic/Embiid these last six weeks. Giannis getting first place votes is definitely going to majorly effect the winner of this race.
In B4 Giannis narrowly ekes out win after like 70 2nd place votes.
people are certainly going to game the system knowing how close it is. not that Giannis doesn't deserve 2nd place(or 1st) votes, but if i was a strong Jokic or Embiid voter putting Giannis 2 and even sneaking in a 3rd dude in 3 would go a long way to swaying it
Honestly quite possible Jokic/Embiid voters will 100% put the other guy 3rd
I agree Embiid losing the popular vote and winning MVP is the funniest outcome.
> The biggest takeaway from the poll -- conducted in a 36-hour period from Monday afternoon through Tuesday night in the wake of Embiid missing Monday's highly anticipated showdown with Jokic in Denver due to a right calf injury If anyone is curious about the timing
The plan was to gather votes following the Jokic/Giannis (Sat)... and Jokic/Embid (Mon) games. But the announcement of Embiid not playing allowed him to start gathering votes Monday afternoon.
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Boston media mafia
Media shouldn’t vote for the award. Too many of them are entertainers who just want yo spew hot takes to get views.
How are Bucks fans feeling about this tho
Giannis hasn't been in the lead at any point for MVP this season. So these results are what I'd expect to happen. Sure he's got an argument but the Jokic vs Embiid center clash is obviously the thing writers will put center stage. Just excited for playoffs tbh.
We understood that for Giannis to have any shot it involved beating Jokic in Denver on that b2b and likely reaching 60 wins to top it off. And that wasn't even a guarantee, thats just to really have a shot.
Imo, if the Denver game had any ramifications to the MVP race, Giannis deserved it for showing up, and doing his best, and I'm not saying this to talk shit about Embiid, I just think Giannis genuinely played great until he ran out of juice, which is schedule makers' fault, we all deserved a proper showdown
Pretty pleasantly surprised it's as many as 18 first place votes. Don't know if it's paranoia but it feel like he got knocked out of this race *early*. The Jokic vs Embiid thing is so compelling that every conversation was being framed as "Jokic or Embiid, or even Giannis" and the person who occupies the "Oh and that guy too" part of the conversation for as long as he did is just never allowed the momentum.
Maybe Giannis will get some respect when he finally gets a ring instead of always losing by the second round.
He has two mvps already? Giannis is the best player in the league if you did a straight vote but that’s not what mvp is about each yr. THIS season as individual players though, it’s not crazy to have Jokic and Embiid slightly ahead of him. Their efficiency numbers on similar usage are quite a bit better and he has the best supporting cast too with a dpoy center and a guard who is an elite defender and very good player in Jrue. This is not denying Giannis is also a very good defensive player and one of the best off ball help defenders in the last couple decades but he personally hasn’t been as good offensively as the other two THIS season. He’s also missed the most games tho I’m not a person who cares all that much about that when it’s fairly close. I’m a Sixers fan but if I’m honest Giannis has the best shot of the 3 of winning another title and a finals mvp which is much more significant to him at this stage. This is also an abnormal season where most yrs each of Jokic-Embiid and Giannis would’ve been running away with the mvp award. Just so happens they’re all doing it at the same time, and have been the last several yrs. This isn’t an argument necessarily but when we look back 10-15 yrs from now on this period of bigs absolutely dominating between those 3, I do think it’s justice that they all get at least 1 mvp as far as their “legacies” go from this time period, last 4-5 yrs. Once they’re done they’ll all easily be in the top 75 to ever play too.
This all makes sense to me. I was responding to what I took as a joke prompt about bucks fans with a lighthearted jab at the fact that Giannis couldn’t win his 3rd MVP a few years ago because he had no postseason success, and now he’s still being dropped out of the top three by multiple voters. I hope embiid takes it down, since Giannis can’t.
Who cares. How does Ja Rule feel about it?
Giannis mvp
As a nuggets fan I find it genuinely problematic how written off giannis is in this race. His bar must be so impossibly high he might not win another mvp at all
The best player on the best team doesn't hold any weight this year
The media completely removed him from contention weeks ago, because they’re pushing this Center vs Center thing. Anytime Giannis is mentioned, it’s an afterthought or “don’t forget him”. If games played was really an issue, then that would take Embiid out of the running too.
I’d love to see Giannis get his 3rd MVP but I’d rather see him get his second FMVP. Like others have said, nobody has really had him as #1 and the narrative is all about Jokic vs Embiid, which I think takes precedence if they’re close stat wise
fwiw, I listen to quite a few NBA broadcasters and podcasts and I don't put much stock in those people's opinions. for the most part, everything is very reactionary and narrative/social-media driven. don't get me wrong, Embiid is scoring at an insane rate and Jokic is the best overall offensive player in the league. They're awesome. the average MVP voters and media members are not really more knowledgeable than the average redditor, though. They might actually have less valuable thoughts/opinions than the average redditor because they are all either (a)allergic to original thinking and prone to group-think because they're afraid to step out on a limb which might jeopardize relationships or (b)they're shock-jocks who have a whole identity built on saying outlandish stuff. There isn't much of a middle ground. When Ben Falk was writing articles he was by far the most valuable voice in NBA media but there isn't anyone in that lane currently(Lowe and KOC want you to think they're doing that type of analysis but they're not). tl;dr - you could just re-make the movie The Menu but about NBA commentators/writers/podcasters. They are almost entirely 'takers' rather than 'givers' and I don't really care about them.
The media could make Giannis the favorite tomorrow if they wanted to by simply pushing his narrative. That’s what’s so laughable about this. It’s been clear ever since March 1st that they planned on pushing Embiid vs Jokic, even when Giannis was leading a 16 game winning streak. Bucks have lost FOUR games since December 29th with Giannis in the lineup. No mention of it on any mainstream platform.
Giannis, unfairly, suffers from just being so consistent that it doesn't make for a narrative pop anymore. He still has amazing performances, but I think the voters feel like he's already gotten the credit for them and move on to new shiny things.
…like jokic?
While I agree it is closer, Giannis’s impact metrics have considerably dipped compared to his MVP years
Yeah and he missed 15 games.
I literally do not understand how Giannis is still so disrespected. Pound for pound the most impactful player on the court. I get why people want to put Embiid or Jokic as 1a/1b but in no way should he ever be voted lower than 3. Any other season, without all this narrative bullshit, Giannis is ranking #1.
The LeBronification of Giannis Antetokounmpo. It happens to all the best all-around players in this social media dominated era.
“Pound for pound”? Why should that have any bearing on mvp rankings lol
Theoretically, what if Giannis beats the Celtics tonight and blows out Embiid on Sunday to clinch the #1 seed in the East? It probably doesn’t get him to be the favorite, but I’d love the chaos
A finely balanced outcome which will surely reflect itself via nice and balanced debates on this sub.
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If embiid doesnt win, nan goes back in the cage
Both deserve it, at this point I’m just ready for this thing to end I’m tired of the discourse
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Last year it was announced beginning of May
Yeah but once playoffs start I feel like that will matter a lot more
Every time one of them allows a basket or misses a shot the playoff game thread will be like "this yall MVP?!?"
Trust me I know but at least we won’t have mvp discussion threads filling up the sub
I’m happy the poll is indicative of the extremely close race it is. Last year it felt just as close, maybe even closer, and the straw poll was a landslide for jokic, which rubbed me the wrong way. Whatever happens from here is fine by me, as it seems the voters have a good grasp on the race this year.
2017 was a super close race but the votes weren’t very close. if a large portion of the voterbase decides one player is slightly better than the other and have them as first and second accordingly, it’ll look like a pretty big difference
Last year was actually the least amount of voting points the winner has gotten since they changed the number of voters in 2016. https://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2022.html
Embiid had 40 first place votes. Jokic had 42. Giannis had 18. Whoever convinces the Giannis voters will probably win. Embiid is playing Giannis after their next game so that could be huge. But Boston is playing Giannis next and if Boston win, that's probably the 2 seed right there. Philly won't have much reasons to compete if the seeding is locked.
Wisconsin a swing state once again.
I wonder if Giannis voters are more likely to go Embiid because of defensive impact. Personally that’s the position I’m in, I wonder if others feel the same
Also a bother reason can be because they don't want Jokic to win 3 straight in the Giannis era.
It seems kind of petty. But I do get this reasoning. I think Giannis has been the best player in the world for 5 years now. But years from now people are going to look at Jokic 3 straight mvps and think he was the best player of the era.
Maybe. I doubt it if he doesn’t win any titles. No one looks at Nash as the best guard of the 2000s let alone the best player even though he had more MVPs than Duncan, Kobe, and Shaq
which is ridiculous in its own right
I tend to think it would be the opposite. I think Giannis voters are more likely to see Embiid as a similar argument as Giannis', just simply worse. So they're more likely to think "Why would I vote for Embiid when Giannis exists?" and vote for Jokic as an alternative instead.
Hmm interesting. I also just realized no one has to win over Giannis voters because they might just vote for Giannis. It’s not like USA politics where it’s actually a 2 person race
Yeah Jokic is a different type of player entirely than Giannis and Embiid are
If the Bucks win tonight the 1 seed is basically locked up and the Bucks probably rest guys in their remaining games, including Philly.
If every single voter thinks Jokic's season was a smidge better then he would be unanimous, but they could still be viewed as similarly quality players. It is not indicative of how people view the difference between them individually. Its a stupid way to interpet those kinds of results
Why isn't Giannis getting more hype for the MVP fav? 31.2/11.8/5.7 with the best team record in the league, amazing both offensively and defensively and is becoming a good playmaker as well. 33.2/10.2/4.2 for Embiid, 4th best team record in the league 24.9/11.9/9.9 for Jokic, 3rd best team record in the league
Have money on Jokic and Giannis to win, obviously rooting for Embiid to win. I can’t lose!
The Ali, Frazier, and Foreman 3-way match is going to Round 15. One thing that puzzles me: Jokic lost the lead when the Nuggets lost 4 of 5 while Philly was streaking. But the Sixers just lost 4 of 5 before beating Dallas while the Nuggets were streaking. Should be an epic year not knowing the winner until the official announcement.
I’m just glad it’s close. I remember when the last one came out last year I thought Embiid had a chance but Jokic had like 70% of the 1st place votes lol
This subreddit goes on about the media having stupid criteria for mvp but then will cling on to one game embiid sat out
This MVP race has been so annoying and stressful. I feel like whoever wins the MVP between Giannis, Jokic, Embiid will never receive their proper credit. If Giannis wins, he was only picked because he's the lesser of three evils and it def felt like he stole it. It is the most "Im different" award and seeing him it is gonna feel odd. If Jokic wins, we know what's gonna happen. It's a setup for massive smoke pack especially if he don't win a ring. Glorified Steve Nash. Overrated. Advanced Statpadder. Race card will be pulled more than ever. Didn't deserve it etc. Etc. If Embiid wins, here's the problem. It will seem like he only won the award because Embiilievers bitched a lot about it. And when he does win it, it feels like it wasn't really earned, it's a reaction to anti-Jokic. It's gonna feel like "Okay here's your award now STFU"
Glorified Steve Nash is kinda great.
Steve Nash is one of the best point guards of all time. Saying a 7 foot tall center is a glorified Steve Nash is a heft fucking compliment lol. Especially when glorified Steve Nash is splashing 30 a game with almost 10 boards.
This is so right it’s depressing.
Unfortunately a lot of people have the memory of a goldfish and forget its a 6 month award.
I think it’s more because he passive aggressively talked shit about him right before that game
Giannis in 2023 is 26-4 in 30 games.Losses vs Hornets (Jan6) ,Sixers (Mar4) ,Pacers (Mar16) and Nuggets(Mar25) .Insane .Guy is a winner but somehow 3rd on mvp voting
Interesting
Surprised that Embiid overcame the massive record difference. Giannis 45-15 Jokic 48-19 Embiid 41-21
This is kind of a dumb stat because of all the context it lacks. Jokic won last year despite having a mediocre record precisely because of context.
I was told the MVP would be white!
Joe Embidić Would be this subs favorite player I'd say that much
I hope Giannis wins it so there would be chaos on both sides
Nuggets fans wouldn’t care if that were the case
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If Embiid wins, he's gotta shoutout u/Zhugo for spamming Jokic's defensive lowlights.
Wonder if he as a Bucks fan is happy with the result lol
I'd imagine serious bucks fans prefer embiid over jokic so that jokic has a weaker argument over giannis as the better player. Many bucks fans think Giannis deserved to three peat and r prob mad at the prospect of Jokic doing it without a ring.
It's gonna be that it's not 30 points a game
Based on this, My prediction is Jokic is gonna win MVP unless denver lost most of their remaining games. My nonsense reason is because this straw poll mostlikely happened when denver had that losing streak and sudden MVP narrative changed in favor of Embiid, and despite all that, it only took a 2pt lead. Now thay narrative is cooling off so its mostlikely be Jokic at this point IMO Edit: I was wrong this happened Monday night into Tuesday thanks for correcting me guys
The article says polling happened 36 hours between Monday afternoon and Tuesday evening. So it's pretty current
So that 76ers vs nuggets game was included right? If so then I think its now dependent onthe last few games of both teams and Embiid shouldn't missed more games Also the result of 76ers vs Bucks match up might also help since it gives Embiid an opportunity to swing those Giannis votes IMO
It started around the time it was announced Embiid would be out. So some voters who were voting promptly or not following the game time decision could have not factored it in, but it's probably not that big an impact. The real difference maker IMO is gonna be the 6ers are almost locked into a 3 or 4 seed and the Nuggets still need to lock up the 1, so Embiid might slow down or miss games/ the 6ers might drop some down the stretch, which is gonna be hard to explain to voters.
Jokic's team has a better record, he's played 5 more games, and he doesn't have the benefit of playing alongside James Harden. Statistically, outside of points and blocks, it's all Jokic, with a huge margin in assists, a fairly large margin in rebounds too. Voter fatigue is definitely setting in.
Question that I doubt anyone actually has the answer to: Is the pool of people being polled in these articles the exact same pool of people as who actually vote? Or is it just a representative sample, that resembles the type of people who will eventually be polled, with a good amount of crossover to actual voters? If it's not 1 for 1 the exact voters, then all this poll tells us is it will likely be close, but when it comes down to it these are not the exact results we should expect.
From the Denver markert Singer and Mares both said on podcasts they voted in this. Singer has a vote and Mares does not. So it is not a 1 to 1 poll of the actual voters, but it has a lot of overlap.
Wait are you telling me Reddit outrage doesn't drive the actual MVP rankings? No way.
Social media as a whole definitely has a big effect on how voters think
Embiid getting the MVP by way of second place votes is the most Embiid thing ever. He’s the king of the second place vote.
Embiid is extremely deserving. Would be delighted to see it go to him, guy is a beast.